Lowery Interview on 1350

[Kat Kid]

Say, hypothetically, Webers first 5 years are as follows:

12 - 23 Ws, 2nd in conference, sweet 16
13 - 21 Ws, 4th in conference, round of 32
14 - 19 Ws, 5th in conference, NIT
15 - 20 Ws, 4th in conference, 1st round NCAA
16 - 20 Ws, 4th in conference, NIT

Recruiting classes are average.  Mostly 100-150 3* players.  Goes 1-9 against KU. 

Are these fairly average results a "big step back" for our program?  Will weber have successfully "mehd us to death"?

Give or take, the hypo above is pretty much Frank Martin basketball.  Slight edge to Martin, I'd guess.

That is clearly worse than Frank and he should be fired after the fifth season in that scenario. I also think your hypothetical is pretty close to oscar's ceiling @ KSU.

I absolutely agree with michigancat here and I eagerly await anyone defending that resume.  It isn't "basically" Frank.  It is clearly worse.  It isn't acceptable, it is fireable.

It is one thing to say that we should "move on" and "Frank's gone" and "I'm hoping for the best" or even defending Weber as a possibly good replacement considering the circumstances.  What is entirely predictable is that the same people doing this are tirelessly working to suppress expectations and have decided to either forget or to deny the success that Frank achieved and what that 1) should've meant when Currie was making the hire 2) what that means going forward for Weber's evaluation

[MakeItRain]

If that was truly legit, do you think South Carolina hires him? 

I can say they've sniffed at the tree in the last 5 years, but they aren't going to get anywhere at this juncture IMO.

So that part of the rational for pushing Frank out is AD propaganda from what you know?  I have no ITK, so appreciate you sharing.  Many who do like to be totally vague with what they do chose to share. 

Stuff like that floating out (and CC is not the only one I've seen that from) makes the rest of it harder for me to buy.

The only thing I I ever heard directly related to Frank that COULD be construed as eyebrow raising is Frank giving money to former players.

I hope that didn't come from your ITK source.  Frank coached his last high school game seven years before he was a head coach at Kansas State.  Giving money to people who are not NCAA athletes is not a NCAA matter.  Frank did not have any former high schoolers playing college basketball while he was at K-State.

[Cire]

Hating weber has nothing to do with frank martin.  I don't know why every body thinks that a tourney birth is a given next year either

[Dr Rick Daris]

Hating weber has nothing to do with frank martin.  I don't know why every body thinks that a tourney birth is a given next year either

if angel comes back then the worst coach in the world could coach this team into the tournament. if he doesn't then a top 100 coach could. either way, it's impossible not to make it. weber said it himself in the initial press conference. this is a sweet sixteen type team.

[Belvis Noland]

Say, hypothetically, Webers first 5 years are as follows:

12 - 23 Ws, 2nd in conference, sweet 16
13 - 21 Ws, 4th in conference, round of 32
14 - 19 Ws, 5th in conference, NIT
15 - 20 Ws, 4th in conference, 1st round NCAA
16 - 20 Ws, 4th in conference, NIT



Give or take, the hypo above is pretty much Frank Martin basketball. 

no it's not. also, i don't care about overall wins. what would weber's conf record be in the above?

Yes it is.  Trade 1 NIT for an NCAA and add 1 win to the 19 W season and you have EXACTLY Frank Martin basketball.  Hence the "give or take" qualifier.  Stop being intentionally Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). 

[WillieWatanabe]

Say, hypothetically, Webers first 5 years are as follows:

12 - 23 Ws, 2nd in conference, sweet 16
13 - 21 Ws, 4th in conference, round of 32
14 - 19 Ws, 5th in conference, NIT
15 - 20 Ws, 4th in conference, 1st round NCAA
16 - 20 Ws, 4th in conference, NIT

Recruiting classes are average.  Mostly 100-150 3* players.  Goes 1-9 against KU. 

Are these fairly average results a "big step back" for our program?  Will weber have successfully "mehd us to death"?

Give or take, the hypo above is pretty much Frank Martin basketball.  Slight edge to Martin, I'd guess.

That is clearly worse than Frank and he should be fired after the fifth season in that scenario. I also think your hypothetical is pretty close to oscar's ceiling @ KSU.

I agree 2 NITs in 5 years would be a fireable offense. But I can just hear the Goodman's of the media world starting the "who does KSU think they are?!" crap again.

[Belvis Noland]

Whenever you fools are ready to enlighten me, please tell me how my hypothetical stat sheet is "clearly worse" than Feanks tenure. 

[Dr Rick Daris]

Say, hypothetically, Webers first 5 years are as follows:

12 - 23 Ws, 2nd in conference, sweet 16
13 - 21 Ws, 4th in conference, round of 32
14 - 19 Ws, 5th in conference, NIT
15 - 20 Ws, 4th in conference, 1st round NCAA
16 - 20 Ws, 4th in conference, NIT



Give or take, the hypo above is pretty much Frank Martin basketball. 

no it's not. also, i don't care about overall wins. what would weber's conf record be in the above?

Yes it is.  Trade 1 NIT for an NCAA and add 1 win to the 19 W season and you have EXACTLY Frank Martin basketball.  Hence the "give or take" qualifier.  Stop being intentionally Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

no it's not. there were 12 teams in the big12 when frank was coaching, so top 4 meant something different then it does moving forward. hint...i say this because there are only 10 teams now. hint...what if there were only six teams? hint...would top four be good if there were only four teams in the conference? tell me if you need me to explain this further. just as serious this time. although you didn't reply before, so...

[Dr Rick Daris]

belvis-

quick question...is it better to finish third in your league or ninth? hint...this is a trick question.

[Barry McCockner]

Whenever you fools are ready to enlighten me, please tell me how my hypothetical stat sheet is "clearly worse" than Feanks tenure.

For one, it is clearly trending downward as his own players are filtering in.

[Kat Kid]

belvis-

quick question...is it better to finish third in you league or ninth? hint...this is a trick question.

See how much more fun this is than just face palming and pretending you won the argument?  I hope many goEMAW'rs are taking note and watching.

[Belvis Noland]

Say, hypothetically, Webers first 5 years are as follows:

12 - 23 Ws, 2nd in conference, sweet 16
13 - 21 Ws, 4th in conference, round of 32
14 - 19 Ws, 5th in conference, NIT
15 - 20 Ws, 4th in conference, 1st round NCAA
16 - 20 Ws, 4th in conference, NIT



Give or take, the hypo above is pretty much Frank Martin basketball. 

no it's not. also, i don't care about overall wins. what would weber's conf record be in the above?

Yes it is.  Trade 1 NIT for an NCAA and add 1 win to the 19 W season and you have EXACTLY Frank Martin basketball.  Hence the "give or take" qualifier.  Stop being intentionally Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

no it's not. there were 12 teams in the big12 when frank was coaching, so top 4 meant something different then it does moving forward. hint...i say this because there are only 10 teams now. hint...what if there were only six teams? hint...would top four be good if there were only four teams in the conference? tell me if you need me to explain this further. just as serious this time. although you didn't reply before, so...

12 teams when Frank was coaching.  Except this past season.  And he finished 5th out of 10.  And went to the tourney.

[The Whale]

Say, hypothetically, Webers first 5 years are as follows:

12 - 23 Ws, 2nd in conference, sweet 16
13 - 21 Ws, 4th in conference, round of 32
14 - 19 Ws, 5th in conference, NIT
15 - 20 Ws, 4th in conference, 1st round NCAA
16 - 20 Ws, 4th in conference, NIT

Recruiting classes are average.  Mostly 100-150 3* players.  Goes 1-9 against KU. 

Are these fairly average results a "big step back" for our program?  Will weber have successfully "mehd us to death"?

Give or take, the hypo above is pretty much Frank Martin basketball.  Slight edge to Martin, I'd guess.

So, no season with 29 total wins?

[Dr Rick Daris]

Say, hypothetically, Webers first 5 years are as follows:

12 - 23 Ws, 2nd in conference, sweet 16
13 - 21 Ws, 4th in conference, round of 32
14 - 19 Ws, 5th in conference, NIT
15 - 20 Ws, 4th in conference, 1st round NCAA
16 - 20 Ws, 4th in conference, NIT



Give or take, the hypo above is pretty much Frank Martin basketball. 

no it's not. also, i don't care about overall wins. what would weber's conf record be in the above?

Yes it is.  Trade 1 NIT for an NCAA and add 1 win to the 19 W season and you have EXACTLY Frank Martin basketball.  Hence the "give or take" qualifier.  Stop being intentionally Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

no it's not. there were 12 teams in the big12 when frank was coaching, so top 4 meant something different then it does moving forward. hint...i say this because there are only 10 teams now. hint...what if there were only six teams? hint...would top four be good if there were only four teams in the conference? tell me if you need me to explain this further. just as serious this time. although you didn't reply before, so...

12 teams when Frank was coaching.  Except this past season.  And he finished 5th out of 10.  And went to the tourney.

which brings me back to me asking you what oscar's first five year conf record will be. i know what franks was and i know what bruces was at illinois at the exact same time frank was as kstate. predicto?

[chum1]

At the end of this thread, Frank Martin's three national championships will be six national championships greater than oscar Weber's one national championship.

[Belvis Noland]

Say, hypothetically, Webers first 5 years are as follows:

12 - 23 Ws, 2nd in conference, sweet 16
13 - 21 Ws, 4th in conference, round of 32
14 - 19 Ws, 5th in conference, NIT
15 - 20 Ws, 4th in conference, 1st round NCAA
16 - 20 Ws, 4th in conference, NIT



Give or take, the hypo above is pretty much Frank Martin basketball. 

no it's not. also, i don't care about overall wins. what would weber's conf record be in the above?

Yes it is.  Trade 1 NIT for an NCAA and add 1 win to the 19 W season and you have EXACTLY Frank Martin basketball.  Hence the "give or take" qualifier.  Stop being intentionally Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

no it's not. there were 12 teams in the big12 when frank was coaching, so top 4 meant something different then it does moving forward. hint...i say this because there are only 10 teams now. hint...what if there were only six teams? hint...would top four be good if there were only four teams in the conference? tell me if you need me to explain this further. just as serious this time. although you didn't reply before, so...

12 teams when Frank was coaching.  Except this past season.  And he finished 5th out of 10.  And went to the tourney.

which brings me back to me asking you what oscar's first five year conf record will be. i know what franks was and i know what bruces was at illinois at the exact same time frank was as kstate. predicto?

2 conf Ws better than last season.  Finish 2 spots higher in conference at 3rd.  5 seed in NCAA.  Or in other words, exactly where we'd be with Frank. 

[Dr Rick Daris]

Say, hypothetically, Webers first 5 years are as follows:

12 - 23 Ws, 2nd in conference, sweet 16
13 - 21 Ws, 4th in conference, round of 32
14 - 19 Ws, 5th in conference, NIT
15 - 20 Ws, 4th in conference, 1st round NCAA
16 - 20 Ws, 4th in conference, NIT



Give or take, the hypo above is pretty much Frank Martin basketball. 

no it's not. also, i don't care about overall wins. what would weber's conf record be in the above?

Yes it is.  Trade 1 NIT for an NCAA and add 1 win to the 19 W season and you have EXACTLY Frank Martin basketball.  Hence the "give or take" qualifier.  Stop being intentionally Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

no it's not. there were 12 teams in the big12 when frank was coaching, so top 4 meant something different then it does moving forward. hint...i say this because there are only 10 teams now. hint...what if there were only six teams? hint...would top four be good if there were only four teams in the conference? tell me if you need me to explain this further. just as serious this time. although you didn't reply before, so...

12 teams when Frank was coaching.  Except this past season.  And he finished 5th out of 10.  And went to the tourney.

which brings me back to me asking you what oscar's first five year conf record will be. i know what franks was and i know what bruces was at illinois at the exact same time frank was as kstate. predicto?

2 conf Ws better than last season.  Finish 2 spots higher in conference at 3rd.  5 seed in NCAA.  Or in other words, exactly where we'd be with Frank.

my fault (seriously). i worded that poorly. what do you think oscar's conf record will be after five years?

[sonofdaxjones]

If that was truly legit, do you think South Carolina hires him? 

I can say they've sniffed at the tree in the last 5 years, but they aren't going to get anywhere at this juncture IMO.

So that part of the rational for pushing Frank out is AD propaganda from what you know?  I have no ITK, so appreciate you sharing.  Many who do like to be totally vague with what they do chose to share. 

Stuff like that floating out (and CC is not the only one I've seen that from) makes the rest of it harder for me to buy.

The only thing I I ever heard directly related to Frank that COULD be construed as eyebrow raising is Frank giving money to former players.

I hope that didn't come from your ITK source.  Frank coached his last high school game seven years before he was a head coach at Kansas State.  Giving money to people who are not NCAA athletes is not a NCAA matter.  Frank did not have any former high schoolers playing college basketball while he was at K-State.

No it did not come from an ITK, I only caught that on some message board discussion.

[Christer]

We don't know who, but I would suggest it wasn't Omari, Watson, Jones or some other meaninless scrub.

There were 4 players planning on transfering. They were Will, Shane, Omari, and Nino.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[Mixed-Nutz]

We don't know who, but I would suggest it wasn't Omari, Watson, Jones or some other meaninless scrub.

There were 4 players planning on transfering. They were Will, Shane, Omari, and Nino.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

and JO.... some rumors on Gip

[MakeItRain]

We don't know who, but I would suggest it wasn't Omari, Watson, Jones or some other meaninless scrub.

There were 4 players planning on transfering. They were Will, Shane, Omari, and Nino.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

and JO.... some rumors on Gip

It was everybody including Shawn Meyer.  Frank turned into a different guy than the one who called Jake the most selfish [redacted] in the history of college basketball four years ago.  Frank isn't the same guy who recruited and previously coached these guys, he's mean now.

[Trim]

If I start a "Doc Spradler, This Is Your Life!" thread, do you think we could eventually get all the ITK sources to post here?

[kim carnes]

i can't believe you guys are still discussing k-state basketball

[yosh]

Say, hypothetically, Webers first 5 years are as follows:

12 - 23 Ws, 2nd in conference, sweet 16
13 - 21 Ws, 4th in conference, round of 32
14 - 19 Ws, 5th in conference, NIT
15 - 20 Ws, 4th in conference, 1st round NCAA
16 - 20 Ws, 4th in conference, NIT

Recruiting classes are average.  Mostly 100-150 3* players.  Goes 1-9 against KU. 

Are these fairly average results a "big step back" for our program?  Will weber have successfully "mehd us to death"?

Give or take, the hypo above is pretty much Frank Martin basketball.  Slight edge to Martin, I'd guess.

I'll play AD.  The bar is set at 3 NCAAs in 4 years, no less than an NIT in the fourth year and competing for the league title at least once every four years.  I have heard this standard many times on this board (Rusty included I believe) and it's better than what happened in the Huggins/Martin 6 year run.  Weber meets this criteria in his first four years, and I can't let my coach go into his 5th and final year without an extension, so tack three years onto the end of the original 5 year with a low buyout for making the minimum standard.  It gets a bit tricky after year 5.  If you say that you are now into the second 4 years, he's already used up his non-NCAA year.  So you have to make a judgement call. Do you realistically see 3 straight NCAAs?  Young roster with lots of key players coming back?  Elite class coming in?  If not, pull the trigger and can his ass.  If so, let him know, privately, that another NIT won't be acceptable within his remaining contract.   

[michigancat]

Say, hypothetically, Webers first 5 years are as follows:

12 - 23 Ws, 2nd in conference, sweet 16
13 - 21 Ws, 4th in conference, round of 32
14 - 19 Ws, 5th in conference, NIT
15 - 20 Ws, 4th in conference, 1st round NCAA
16 - 20 Ws, 4th in conference, NIT

Recruiting classes are average.  Mostly 100-150 3* players.  Goes 1-9 against KU. 

Are these fairly average results a "big step back" for our program?  Will weber have successfully "mehd us to death"?

Give or take, the hypo above is pretty much Frank Martin basketball.  Slight edge to Martin, I'd guess.

I'll play AD.  The bar is set at 3 NCAAs in 4 years, no less than an NIT in the fourth year and competing for the league title at least once every four years.  I have heard this standard many times on this board (Rusty included I believe) and it's better than what happened in the Huggins/Martin 6 year run.  Weber meets this criteria in his first four years, and I can't let my coach go into his 5th and final year without an extension, so tack three years onto the end of the original 5 year with a low buyout for making the minimum standard.  It gets a bit tricky after year 5.  If you say that you are now into the second 4 years, he's already used up his non-NCAA year.  So you have to make a judgement call. Do you realistically see 3 straight NCAAs?  Young roster with lots of key players coming back?  Elite class coming in?  If not, pull the trigger and can his ass.  If so, let him know, privately, that another NIT won't be acceptable within his remaining contract.

I said NCAA tourney 4 out of 5 years is fine no matter what. When you are worse than that, which this hypothetical clearly is, you better have a damn good reason to retain him. I'm not sure a last-gasp elite class would be enough even if it was likely. 0 tourney wins and just one appearance in three years is pretty bad.

also, it's ridiculous to compare those results to the Huggins-Martin era. Not only are they worse in a vacuum, but they are FAR worse when you consider the rosters and overall health of the programs when each started.