Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 10:41:46 AM
1. Contribute at least the max that your employer will match to your company 401k....Does not matter how poor you are or how much student debt you have, this is free money.
2. Once you have contributed to enough to get the full match to your company 401k and you still have more money to invest you have some options. You can keep putting more money in the 401k or you can open a Roth IRA.
But ben ji, why put it in a roth ira and not keep it in the 401k?
Well....
1. Roth IRA is after tax money and will not be taxed when you take it in retirement. If you are just starting out you will probably be a lower tax rate now than when you retire.
2. You have more investment options with an IRA. This allows you to find funds with lower expense ratio's and more targeted investing than your 401k Options.
Post by: 0.42 on April 16, 2013, 10:42:28 AM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 16, 2013, 10:45:40 AM
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 16, 2013, 10:47:41 AM
I contribute enough to my 401k to max out the employer match, and then I use the rest of my spare money purchasing stocks.
General trading account? Wife and I been maxing the Roth IRA contribution the last few years and now we wish we would have been doing just a general trading account for the purpose of pulling out cash to buy a new house.
Post by: 'taterblast on April 16, 2013, 10:48:38 AM
is this bad?
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 16, 2013, 10:49:19 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 16, 2013, 10:49:41 AM
I contribute enough to my 401k to max out the employer match, and then I use the rest of my spare money purchasing stocks.
you are pissing away some good tax breaks broseph
Post by: steve dave on April 16, 2013, 10:50:24 AM
of all the "wealth" i have to my name currently, a little less than 20% of it is actual cash that i could spend right now.
is this bad?
depends how much "wealth" you have. normally that would be way too much in cash.
Post by: 'taterblast on April 16, 2013, 10:51:16 AM
of all the "wealth" i have to my name currently, a little less than 20% of it is actual cash that i could spend right now.
is this bad?
depends how much "wealth" you have. normally that would be way too much in cash.
yeah it's not that much so i'm probably ok.
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 16, 2013, 10:51:18 AM
I contribute enough to my 401k to max out the employer match, and then I use the rest of my spare money purchasing stocks.
you are pissing away some good tax breaks broseph
Depends. Probably a safe assumption tax rates when we retire will be higher. Better to pay the income tax up front and not pay it later. At least that's my way of looking at it.
Post by: steve dave on April 16, 2013, 10:52:15 AM
I contribute enough to my 401k to max out the employer match, and then I use the rest of my spare money purchasing stocks.
you are pissing away some good tax breaks broseph
Depends. Probably a safe assumption tax rates when we retire will be higher. Better to pay the income tax up front and not pay it later. At least that's my way of looking at it.
it doesn't depend at all. he can either put it in a roth or contribute more than his employers match to his 401k until he hits his personal max. either way it's a tax break over buying stocks (not taking into account potential gain/loss). he would be losing liquidity if that is a factor.
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 16, 2013, 10:57:55 AM
I contribute enough to my 401k to max out the employer match, and then I use the rest of my spare money purchasing stocks.
you are pissing away some good tax breaks broseph
Depends. Probably a safe assumption tax rates when we retire will be higher. Better to pay the income tax up front and not pay it later. At least that's my way of looking at it.
it doesn't depend at all. he can either put it in a roth or contribute more than his employers match to his 401k until he hits his personal max. either way it's a tax break over buying stocks with after tax money and getting hit again when he sells them.
Well a Roth is an after tax contribution. So no tax break there. You might be thinking of a traditional IRA?
Agree on the 401k, although mine won't let me purchase anything other than the two dozen funds they offer (Prudential).
Post by: steve dave on April 16, 2013, 10:58:32 AM
I contribute enough to my 401k to max out the employer match, and then I use the rest of my spare money purchasing stocks.
you are pissing away some good tax breaks broseph
Depends. Probably a safe assumption tax rates when we retire will be higher. Better to pay the income tax up front and not pay it later. At least that's my way of looking at it.
it doesn't depend at all. he can either put it in a roth or contribute more than his employers match to his 401k until he hits his personal max. either way it's a tax break over buying stocks with after tax money and getting hit again when he sells them.
Well a Roth is an after tax contribution. So no tax break there. You might be thinking of a traditional IRA?
Agree on the 401k, although mine won't let me purchase anything other than the two dozen funds they offer (Prudential).
I'm not 100% certain you understand how a Roth works (I'm actually 100% certain you don't).
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 16, 2013, 11:00:01 AM
I contribute enough to my 401k to max out the employer match, and then I use the rest of my spare money purchasing stocks.
General trading account? Wife and I been maxing the Roth IRA contribution the last few years and now we wish we would have been doing just a general trading account for the purpose of pulling out cash to buy a new house.
Yeah, I use TD Ameritrade. I basically had the same idea, that it would be nice to be able to just take out money whenever I wanted for major purchases, while I still have my tax-exempt account that I can't touch until I'm 65. I really just do that because I enjoy it, though.
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 11:00:20 AM
I need to invest money in stocks. What's my best route here... Scottrade? I kinda just want someone to take my money and then just tell me when I'm a millionaire. I know nothing about stocks and don't really have the time to pay a whole lot of attention to them.
Just get a roth IRA, its very simple. I have mine through fidelity and it took about 10 minutes to set up. No minimum starting amount if you set up direct deposit every month.
If you want something where you just invest it and forget it just buy an index fund.
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 11:01:26 AM
I contribute enough to my 401k to max out the employer match, and then I use the rest of my spare money purchasing stocks.
General trading account? Wife and I been maxing the Roth IRA contribution the last few years and now we wish we would have been doing just a general trading account for the purpose of pulling out cash to buy a new house.
You do realize you can pull the principal(not any interest earned) from your roth IRA at anytime.....
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 16, 2013, 11:01:47 AM
I contribute enough to my 401k to max out the employer match, and then I use the rest of my spare money purchasing stocks.
you are pissing away some good tax breaks broseph
Depends. Probably a safe assumption tax rates when we retire will be higher. Better to pay the income tax up front and not pay it later. At least that's my way of looking at it.
it doesn't depend at all. he can either put it in a roth or contribute more than his employers match to his 401k until he hits his personal max. either way it's a tax break over buying stocks with after tax money and getting hit again when he sells them.
Well a Roth is an after tax contribution. So no tax break there. You might be thinking of a traditional IRA?
Agree on the 401k, although mine won't let me purchase anything other than the two dozen funds they offer (Prudential).
I'm not 100% certain you understand how a Roth works (I'm actually 100% certain you don't).
I'm saying your contributions are not tax deductible. So you pay income tax. However your disbursements are not taxed as income, nor are there capital gains/losses.
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 16, 2013, 11:02:10 AM
I contribute enough to my 401k to max out the employer match, and then I use the rest of my spare money purchasing stocks.
General trading account? Wife and I been maxing the Roth IRA contribution the last few years and now we wish we would have been doing just a general trading account for the purpose of pulling out cash to buy a new house.
You do realize you can pull the principal(not any interest earned) from your roth IRA at anytime.....
No penalty? Was not aware of that.
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 16, 2013, 11:02:50 AM
I need to invest money in stocks. What's my best route here... Scottrade? I kinda just want someone to take my money and then just tell me when I'm a millionaire. I know nothing about stocks and don't really have the time to pay a whole lot of attention to them.
Just get a roth IRA, its very simple. I have mine through fidelity and it took about 10 minutes to set up. No minimum starting amount if you set up direct deposit every month.
If you want something where you just invest it and forget it just buy an index fund.
Link me, bro
Post by: mocat on April 16, 2013, 11:02:53 AM
I contribute enough to my 401k to max out the employer match, and then I use the rest of my spare money purchasing stocks.
you are pissing away some good tax breaks broseph
Depends. Probably a safe assumption tax rates when we retire will be higher. Better to pay the income tax up front and not pay it later. At least that's my way of looking at it.
it doesn't depend at all. he can either put it in a roth or contribute more than his employers match to his 401k until he hits his personal max. either way it's a tax break over buying stocks with after tax money and getting hit again when he sells them.
Well a Roth is an after tax contribution. So no tax break there. You might be thinking of a traditional IRA?
Agree on the 401k, although mine won't let me purchase anything other than the two dozen funds they offer (Prudential).
I'm not 100% certain you understand how a Roth works (I'm actually 100% certain you don't).
This is the new to investing thread, steve. Take it easy and spell it out for people who are new to investing.
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 11:03:01 AM
I contribute enough to my 401k to max out the employer match, and then I use the rest of my spare money purchasing stocks.
General trading account? Wife and I been maxing the Roth IRA contribution the last few years and now we wish we would have been doing just a general trading account for the purpose of pulling out cash to buy a new house.
You do realize you can pull the principal(not any interest earned) from your roth IRA at anytime.....
No penalty? Was not aware of that.
No penalty, you already paid tax on it. You can pull out as much principal as you want at any time.
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on April 16, 2013, 11:04:18 AM
I need to invest money in stocks. What's my best route here... Scottrade? I kinda just want someone to take my money and then just tell me when I'm a millionaire. I know nothing about stocks and don't really have the time to pay a whole lot of attention to them.
Just get a roth IRA, its very simple. I have mine through fidelity and it took about 10 minutes to set up. No minimum starting amount if you set up direct deposit every month.
If you want something where you just invest it and forget it just buy an index fund.
Link me, bro
www.google.com (http://www.google.com)
Post by: mocat on April 16, 2013, 11:05:26 AM
I need to invest money in stocks. What's my best route here... Scottrade? I kinda just want someone to take my money and then just tell me when I'm a millionaire. I know nothing about stocks and don't really have the time to pay a whole lot of attention to them.
Just get a roth IRA, its very simple. I have mine through fidelity and it took about 10 minutes to set up. No minimum starting amount if you set up direct deposit every month.
Link me, bro
tell me more
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 11:05:36 AM
I need to invest money in stocks. What's my best route here... Scottrade? I kinda just want someone to take my money and then just tell me when I'm a millionaire. I know nothing about stocks and don't really have the time to pay a whole lot of attention to them.
Just get a roth IRA, its very simple. I have mine through fidelity and it took about 10 minutes to set up. No minimum starting amount if you set up direct deposit every month.
If you want something where you just invest it and forget it just buy an index fund.
Link me, bro
https://www.fidelity.com/open-account/overview
I also have a general trading account seperate from my Roth IRA but it only has $500 in it and I just use it to screw around in.
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on April 16, 2013, 11:05:55 AM
Post by: slobber on April 16, 2013, 11:05:56 AM
of all the "wealth" i have to my name currently, a little less than 20% of it is actual cash that i could spend right now.Depends on how much wealth you have. My available cash is only 4%.
is this bad?
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 16, 2013, 11:06:21 AM
I contribute enough to my 401k to max out the employer match, and then I use the rest of my spare money purchasing stocks.
General trading account? Wife and I been maxing the Roth IRA contribution the last few years and now we wish we would have been doing just a general trading account for the purpose of pulling out cash to buy a new house.
You do realize you can pull the principal(not any interest earned) from your roth IRA at anytime.....
No penalty? Was not aware of that.
No penalty, you already paid tax on it. You can pull out as much principal as you want at any time.
While I am :thumbs: about learning this, it's going to end up costing me more money, so like eff you and your helpfulness! :shakesfist:
Post by: slobber on April 16, 2013, 11:08:58 AM
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 11:12:05 AM
of all the "wealth" i have to my name currently, a little less than 20% of it is actual cash that i could spend right now.
is this bad?
Not really, as a general rule you should have around 3 months expenses in a emergency fund. The rest should be in tax advantaged accounts like a 401k or an IRA.
Post by: 'taterblast on April 16, 2013, 11:14:02 AM
of all the "wealth" i have to my name currently, a little less than 20% of it is actual cash that i could spend right now.
is this bad?
Not really, as a general rule you should have around 3 months expenses in a emergency fund. The rest should be in tax advantaged accounts like a 401k or an IRA.
i'm good to go then.
i have a 401k, employer match (employer's stock is BITB), all of that..
should i open a Roth IRA too?
Post by: michigancat on April 16, 2013, 11:15:17 AM
you get a tax break on the Roth, you just see it when you retire instead of now. combining this with the 401k is hedging your bets on future tax rates. Not real sure what Steve Dave is talking about regarding Roth's.
Post by: Kat Kid on April 16, 2013, 11:15:49 AM
of all the "wealth" i have to my name currently, a little less than 20% of it is actual cash that i could spend right now.
is this bad?
Not really, as a general rule you should have around 3 months expenses in a emergency fund. The rest should be in tax advantaged accounts like a 401k or an IRA.
i'm good to go then.
i have a 401k, employer match (employer's stock is BITB), all of that..
should i open a Roth IRA too?
Yes.
Post by: steve dave on April 16, 2013, 11:16:42 AM
401k to employer match (in an index or target fund if available) than a Roth ira investing in a vanguard target retirement find.
you get a tax break on the Roth, you just see it when you retire instead of now. combining this with the 401k is hedging your bets on future tax rates. Not real sure what Steve Dave is talking about regarding Roth's.
that is exactly what I was talking about re. Roths
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 11:18:15 AM
of all the "wealth" i have to my name currently, a little less than 20% of it is actual cash that i could spend right now.
is this bad?
Not really, as a general rule you should have around 3 months expenses in a emergency fund. The rest should be in tax advantaged accounts like a 401k or an IRA.
i'm good to go then.
i have a 401k, employer match (employer's stock is BITB), all of that..
should i open a Roth IRA too?
Dont invest more than 5/10% of your 401k in your company stock, way to much risk.
If your company has great 401k investment options then sure keep it in the 401k but most companies 401k providers have between 10-15 funds for everyone and their expense ratios tend to be higher than what you can get through an IRA.
The difference in expense ratio's of .9 and 1.3 can add up to alot of money by the time you retire.
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 11:19:22 AM
of all the "wealth" i have to my name currently, a little less than 20% of it is actual cash that i could spend right now.
is this bad?
Not really, as a general rule you should have around 3 months expenses in a emergency fund. The rest should be in tax advantaged accounts like a 401k or an IRA.
i'm good to go then.
i have a 401k, employer match (employer's stock is BITB), all of that..
should i open a Roth IRA too?
Dont invest more than 5/10% of your 401k in your company stock, way to much risk.
If your company has great 401k investment options then sure keep it in the 401k but most companies 401k providers have between 10-15 funds for everyone and their expense ratios tend to be higher than what you can get through an IRA.
The difference in expense ratio's of .9 and 1.3 can add up to alot of money by the time you retire.
Not to mention the whole not taxed on retirement advantage as well.
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 16, 2013, 11:20:40 AM
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on April 16, 2013, 11:21:05 AM
Post by: slobber on April 16, 2013, 11:22:50 AM
The reason for the above is diversity. You are already relying on your job and your company 100% for your income, do not rely on your company's performance for your retirement.
Post by: 0.42 on April 16, 2013, 11:23:01 AM
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 11:23:16 AM
Can't you pull from your Roth IRA for your first house or something of that nature?
You never want to pull any money out of your retirement fund, bad habit....but yes.
Say your have a Roth IRA and you have 20k in it. 15k of that is principal that you put in....You could pull out all 15k if you wanted and use that to pay for a house or any other emergency that may pop up.
Post by: CNS on April 16, 2013, 11:23:29 AM
I do not care who you work for, do not be over invested in that company's stock. If they have an ESPP (employee stock purchase plan) where you can buy stock at a discount, do it, but then seel the stock when you can if the overall amount in your ESPP is out of balance with the rest of your investments. Additionally, do not own large amounts of company stock in your 401(k).
The reason for the above is diversity. You are already relying on your job and your company 100% for your income, do not rely on your company's performance for your retirement.
See Enron.
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on April 16, 2013, 11:23:54 AM
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 16, 2013, 11:24:13 AM
Can't you pull from your Roth IRA for your first house or something of that nature?
You never want to pull any money out of your retirement fund, bad habit....but yes.
Say your have a Roth IRA and you have 20k in it. 15k of that is principal that you put in....You could pull out all 15k if you wanted and use that to pay for a house or any other emergency that may pop up.
Well I thought it was no penalty. I understand that you can always pull it out but you get taxed like crazy. Just thought there was an exception for your first home.
Post by: treysolid on April 16, 2013, 11:24:21 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 16, 2013, 11:24:57 AM
Can't you pull from your Roth IRA for your first house or something of that nature?
you can borrow from most retirement accounts for stuff like this.
Post by: 0.42 on April 16, 2013, 11:25:45 AM
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 11:25:55 AM
Can't you pull from your Roth IRA for your first house or something of that nature?
You never want to pull any money out of your retirement fund, bad habit....but yes.
Say your have a Roth IRA and you have 20k in it. 15k of that is principal that you put in....You could pull out all 15k if you wanted and use that to pay for a house or any other emergency that may pop up.
Well I thought it was no penalty. I understand that you can always pull it out but you get taxed like crazy. Just thought there was an exception for your first home.
You are confusing a 401k and a roth IRA...there is some way to pull money out of a 401k for your first home but I dont know much about that.
With a roth IRA you can pull out your principal at any time with no penalty because you have already paid taxes on this money.
Post by: slobber on April 16, 2013, 11:27:32 AM
well, before you start investing for retirement, you should put together your emergency fund. whatever you could live on for 6 months if you were to lose your job should just be sitting in a money-market account, ready to use whenever crap goes sideways.
This varies per person and situation. At 24, no spouse, no kids, I wouldn't worry so much about 6 months. Start out with a couple of months and then start investing, but continue to add a little more to your emergency fund until you get to three months or more if you want to.
Post by: slobber on April 16, 2013, 11:30:34 AM
If you have the option at your place of employment, invest in the Roth 401(k), not the traditional 401(k).Hey elites, the people that are new to investing will not take my advice unless one of you agrees to it. This is a simple and easy step, but I know a lot of people freak out when they see "Roth 410(k)" and just select the traditional. Could one of you elites please agree with this statement so all of the young college grads will not make the mistake of passing on their new employer's Roth 401(k).
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 11:33:49 AM
If you have the option at your place of employment, invest in the Roth 401(k), not the traditional 401(k).Hey elites, the people that are new to investing will not take my advice unless one of you agrees to it. This is a simple and easy step, but I know a lot of people freak out when they see "Roth 410(k)" and just select the traditional. Could one of you elites please agree with this statement so all of the young college grads will not make the mistake of passing on their new employer's Roth 401(k).
most places dont have roth 401k's and I dont know much about them.
Post by: slucat on April 16, 2013, 11:34:38 AM
For online trading I use sharebuider from capitol one 360 (formerly ING Direct), cheap trades with some decent research tools. If you have an online savings account through them, money is moved instantly.
Post by: scottwildcat on April 16, 2013, 11:36:32 AM
Post by: 'taterblast on April 16, 2013, 11:37:22 AM
Post by: michigancat on April 16, 2013, 11:37:41 AM
401k to employer match (in an index or target fund if available) than a Roth ira investing in a vanguard target retirement find.
you get a tax break on the Roth, you just see it when you retire instead of now. combining this with the 401k is hedging your bets on future tax rates. Not real sure what Steve Dave is talking about regarding Roth's.
that is exactly what I was talking about re. Roths
yeah. I was walking/tapatalking and misread.
Post by: slobber on April 16, 2013, 11:38:08 AM
They are just like IRA vs. Roth IRA. In the Roth 401(k), your money is taxed prior to being invested. Comes out tax free. The bet in either scenario is that if you are in a higher tax bracket when you retire, you come out ahead. If you are 25 and you think you are in a higher tax bracket now than what you will be in when you retire, then you are not being ambitious enough.If you have the option at your place of employment, invest in the Roth 401(k), not the traditional 401(k).Hey elites, the people that are new to investing will not take my advice unless one of you agrees to it. This is a simple and easy step, but I know a lot of people freak out when they see "Roth 410(k)" and just select the traditional. Could one of you elites please agree with this statement so all of the young college grads will not make the mistake of passing on their new employer's Roth 401(k).
most places dont have roth 401k's and I dont know much about them.
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 11:39:43 AM
hmm are benji and Scott Hendrix the same person :sdeek:
FIII-nance
Post by: puniraptor on April 16, 2013, 11:41:29 AM
Post by: TheHamburglar on April 16, 2013, 11:42:22 AM
hmm are benji and Scott Hendrix the same person :sdeek:
Is BenJi the Fitz of the college of business? I hope not.
Post by: steve dave on April 16, 2013, 11:44:03 AM
you can take principal out of the roth whenever you want? how have they not put savings accounts right out of business?
you can only contribute $5,500 a year
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 16, 2013, 11:44:36 AM
just opened a Roth. minimal contributions to start out with, but still. thanks guys.
'blast I just opened a Roth IRA too! :excited:
Also, I just found out we're gonna be playing softball together this summer :excited: :excited:
Post by: 'taterblast on April 16, 2013, 11:45:56 AM
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 11:46:52 AM
you can take principal out of the roth whenever you want? how have they not put savings accounts right out of business?
you can only contribute $5,500 a year
And if you are constantly pulling out the principal it really defeats the purpose of using it as a retirement account.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 16, 2013, 11:48:19 AM
you can take principal out of the roth whenever you want? how have they not put savings accounts right out of business?
I really don't understand why anybody would have a savings account.
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 11:49:47 AM
you can take principal out of the roth whenever you want? how have they not put savings accounts right out of business?
I really don't understand why anybody would have a savings account.
I dont think you understand investing
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 16, 2013, 11:52:37 AM
you can take principal out of the roth whenever you want? how have they not put savings accounts right out of business?
I really don't understand why anybody would have a savings account.
I dont think you understand investing
Savings accounts pay less than 1% interest. Why would you put your money into a savings account when you could just make extra contributions to your 401k, pay extra on the mortgage, buy stocks, etc? Really just about anything you do with your money will be better than just letting it sit in a savings account.
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 16, 2013, 12:05:30 PM
Have a 401K brewing with the maximum match and just opened a Roth IRA. What else? Wouldn't mind playing the market a little bit at a time. What's the best way to do that? Does goEMAW.com have stock? I know a good investment when I see one.
Post by: slobber on April 16, 2013, 12:13:49 PM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on April 16, 2013, 12:17:24 PM
401k to employer match (in an index or target fund if available) than a Roth ira investing in a vanguard target retirement find.
you get a tax break on the Roth, you just see it when you retire instead of now. combining this with the 401k is hedging your bets on future tax rates. Not real sure what Steve Dave is talking about regarding Roth's.
that is exactly what I was talking about re. Roths
Do this or buy bit coin and solar stocks. Whichever is good.
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 16, 2013, 12:17:31 PM
I generally agree that it's a bad idea, but with interest rates as low as they are, I'm starting to see the house as a real form of investment (savings account). I'd rather pull money from a Roth now to buy a house that I could live in until the kids are gone (20 years), as opposed to skimping now and then having to upgrade later (at a higher interest rate).
Post by: Stupid Fitz on April 16, 2013, 12:21:12 PM
RE: pulling from retirement account for a house
I generally agree that it's a bad idea, but with interest rates as low as they are, I'm starting to see the house as a real form of investment (savings account). I'd rather pull money from a Roth now to buy a house that I could live in until the kids are gone (20 years), as opposed to skimping now and then having to upgrade later (at a higher interest rate).
Unless you have 9 dollars in your retirement account this is a terrible idea
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 12:23:36 PM
you can take principal out of the roth whenever you want? how have they not put savings accounts right out of business?
I really don't understand why anybody would have a savings account.
I dont think you understand investing
Savings accounts pay less than 1% interest. Why would you put your money into a savings account when you could just make extra contributions to your 401k, pay extra on the mortgage, buy stocks, etc? Really just about anything you do with your money will be better than just letting it sit in a savings account.
Saving Accounts are liquid...If your car/ac/heater breaks down or you lose your job etc etc etc you dont want to have to make withdrawls from your 401k or sell stocks at a loss to cover your expenses.
You should not use your roth IRA like a saving account because you are not taking full advantage of compounding interest when you keep withdrawing your principal. You can only contribute 5500 a year to it and if you pull out 3k every year for some emergency you can never put that 3k back in, you will still only be able to contribute 5500.
Also dont pay extra on your mortgage unless your are paying PMI...If your mortgage rate is 4% and the market returns an average of 7% you are losing money.There is some psychological advantage but no financial advantage.
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 16, 2013, 12:27:50 PM
RE: pulling from retirement account for a house
I generally agree that it's a bad idea, but with interest rates as low as they are, I'm starting to see the house as a real form of investment (savings account). I'd rather pull money from a Roth now to buy a house that I could live in until the kids are gone (20 years), as opposed to skimping now and then having to upgrade later (at a higher interest rate).
Unless you have 9 dollars in your retirement account this is a terrible idea
Well let's say I pull $10k from it on the basis it will put me in a house I'd want to live in for 20 years, the other side being that if I didn't I'd want to move again in 5 years. I think that's worth it. :dunno: We can make up that $10k pretty quickly.
I guess the alternative would be to get a second mortgage, which I dunno seems like a bad idea.
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 12:31:01 PM
Alright, next step, you guys...
Have a 401K brewing with the maximum match and just opened a Roth IRA. What else? Wouldn't mind playing the market a little bit at a time. What's the best way to do that? Does goEMAW.com have stock? I know a good investment when I see one.
As a general rule you should max out your tax benefit accounts(401k, roth ira) before you do any investing that has no tax benefits.
Like I said earlier I have a couple hundred I use to screw around in the market with but thats just for fun. When you have to pay 7 bucks for each trade and you only have a couple hundred buck that $7 can add up to a pretty good percent of your profit.
We had an investing thread earlier where SD said something I thought was really smart, it was something to the effect of "Invest in companies that are in your industry/a field you are familiar with" AKA if your company has a vendor and they have their crap together and are a pleasure to work with you might look to invest in that company.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 16, 2013, 12:31:15 PM
RE: pulling from retirement account for a house
I generally agree that it's a bad idea, but with interest rates as low as they are, I'm starting to see the house as a real form of investment (savings account). I'd rather pull money from a Roth now to buy a house that I could live in until the kids are gone (20 years), as opposed to skimping now and then having to upgrade later (at a higher interest rate).
Unless you have 9 dollars in your retirement account this is a terrible idea
Well let's say I pull $10k from it on the basis it will put me in a house I'd want to live in for 20 years, the other side being that if I didn't I'd want to move again in 5 years. I think that's worth it. :dunno: We can make up that $10k pretty quickly.
I guess the alternative would be to get a second mortgage, which I dunno seems like a bad idea.
If you already own a home, pulling out $10k for a payment on a new home is an even worse idea. Just get a second mortgage, and you will be paying a much lower rate on that than the $10k in your 401k will be earning.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 16, 2013, 12:34:50 PM
you can take principal out of the roth whenever you want? how have they not put savings accounts right out of business?
I really don't understand why anybody would have a savings account.
I dont think you understand investing
Savings accounts pay less than 1% interest. Why would you put your money into a savings account when you could just make extra contributions to your 401k, pay extra on the mortgage, buy stocks, etc? Really just about anything you do with your money will be better than just letting it sit in a savings account.
Saving Accounts are liquid...If your car/ac/heater breaks down or you lose your job etc etc etc you dont want to have to make withdrawls from your 401k or sell stocks at a loss to cover your expenses.
You should not use your roth IRA like a saving account because you are not taking full advantage of compounding interest when you keep withdrawing your principal. You can only contribute 5500 a year to it and if you pull out 3k every year for some emergency you can never put that 3k back in, you will still only be able to contribute 5500.
Also dont pay extra on your mortgage unless your are paying PMI...If your mortgage rate is 4% and the market returns an average of 7% you are losing money.There is some psychological advantage but no financial advantage.
Checking accounts are also liquid.
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 16, 2013, 12:35:46 PM
RE: pulling from retirement account for a house
I generally agree that it's a bad idea, but with interest rates as low as they are, I'm starting to see the house as a real form of investment (savings account). I'd rather pull money from a Roth now to buy a house that I could live in until the kids are gone (20 years), as opposed to skimping now and then having to upgrade later (at a higher interest rate).
Unless you have 9 dollars in your retirement account this is a terrible idea
Well let's say I pull $10k from it on the basis it will put me in a house I'd want to live in for 20 years, the other side being that if I didn't I'd want to move again in 5 years. I think that's worth it. :dunno: We can make up that $10k pretty quickly.
I guess the alternative would be to get a second mortgage, which I dunno seems like a bad idea.
If you already own a home, pulling out $10k for a payment on a new home is an even worse idea. Just get a second mortgage, and you will be paying a much lower rate on that than the $10k in your 401k will be earning.
It's a Roth, but whatevs. Don't really see how the current home comes into play.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 16, 2013, 12:43:41 PM
RE: pulling from retirement account for a house
I generally agree that it's a bad idea, but with interest rates as low as they are, I'm starting to see the house as a real form of investment (savings account). I'd rather pull money from a Roth now to buy a house that I could live in until the kids are gone (20 years), as opposed to skimping now and then having to upgrade later (at a higher interest rate).
Unless you have 9 dollars in your retirement account this is a terrible idea
Well let's say I pull $10k from it on the basis it will put me in a house I'd want to live in for 20 years, the other side being that if I didn't I'd want to move again in 5 years. I think that's worth it. :dunno: We can make up that $10k pretty quickly.
I guess the alternative would be to get a second mortgage, which I dunno seems like a bad idea.
If you already own a home, pulling out $10k for a payment on a new home is an even worse idea. Just get a second mortgage, and you will be paying a much lower rate on that than the $10k in your 401k will be earning.
It's a Roth, but whatevs. Don't really see how the current home comes into play.
It only comes into play because you have an asset that you can sell and use as a down payment for your new home. You don't need additional cash, and interest rates are less than 4%, so there really isn't much incentive to put extra down. It looks like you are losing your ass on mortgage interest every month, but you need to be building a base on your retirement account so that by the time you retire, your account will be earning more interest than you are currently paying on your mortgage. In the long run, the Roth IRA should completely demolish any short term gains you achieve by paying extra up front on the house.
Post by: Brock Landers on April 16, 2013, 12:44:16 PM
Can't you pull from your Roth IRA for your first house or something of that nature?
You never want to pull any money out of your retirement fund, bad habit....but yes.
Say your have a Roth IRA and you have 20k in it. 15k of that is principal that you put in....You could pull out all 15k if you wanted and use that to pay for a house or any other emergency that may pop up.
Well I thought it was no penalty. I understand that you can always pull it out but you get taxed like crazy. Just thought there was an exception for your first home.
You are confusing a 401k and a roth IRA...there is some way to pull money out of a 401k for your first home but I dont know much about that.
With a roth IRA you can pull out your principal at any time with no penalty because you have already paid taxes on this money.
Withdrawal from 401k for first home purchase is considered to be a "hardship" condition. You're still taxed, penalized, and can't contribute for 6 months. Forget it.
Post by: Pete on April 16, 2013, 12:45:24 PM
Post by: steve dave on April 16, 2013, 12:54:16 PM
Can't you pull from your Roth IRA for your first house or something of that nature?
You never want to pull any money out of your retirement fund, bad habit....but yes.
Say your have a Roth IRA and you have 20k in it. 15k of that is principal that you put in....You could pull out all 15k if you wanted and use that to pay for a house or any other emergency that may pop up.
Well I thought it was no penalty. I understand that you can always pull it out but you get taxed like crazy. Just thought there was an exception for your first home.
You are confusing a 401k and a roth IRA...there is some way to pull money out of a 401k for your first home but I dont know much about that.
With a roth IRA you can pull out your principal at any time with no penalty because you have already paid taxes on this money.
Withdrawal from 401k for first home purchase is considered to be a "hardship" condition. You're still taxed, penalized, and can't contribute for 6 months. Forget it.
you can take a loan from your 401k without any of that. but, with mortage rates at essentially zero I don't know why you would.
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 16, 2013, 01:02:19 PM
Post by: puniraptor on April 16, 2013, 01:03:59 PM
Seems hard to invest a ton of money in retirement from my seat at age 20-something. I have very few monthly expenses... pretty much just student loans and rent, but I feel like watching all that money pile up in my checking account is a bad idea. Guys, what if I have to buy a wedding ring or something in 2 years? Should I be paying my student loans off at a higher rate? Seems silly, they are ridiculously high as is. Oh that leads me to another question... wtf is consolidating student loans? Should I do that? Will it lower my payments? GUYS!!!!
not federal loans. if you have multiple private loans, you can consolidate them and save money.
Post by: mocat on April 16, 2013, 01:05:58 PM
I am paying way over my monthly payment on my car loan since that is a rapidly depreciating asset.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 16, 2013, 01:11:09 PM
Also dont pay extra on your mortgage unless your are paying PMI...If your mortgage rate is 4% and the market returns an average of 7% you are losing money.There is some psychological advantage but no financial advantage.
I generally agree with this, but there is some financial advantage in paying extra on your mortgage if you don't plan on living at your current house for an extended period of time. When rates go back up, you will have to get a new mortgage at the higher rate when you move and having a larger amount of the value of your current home paid off will reduce the amount you have to borrow at the higher rate. There are better investments out there, but paying extra on the mortgage is better than letting your money sit in a savings or checking account.
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 01:14:40 PM
Seems hard to invest a ton of money in retirement from my seat at age 20-something. I have very few monthly expenses... pretty much just student loans and rent, but I feel like watching all that money pile up in my checking account is a bad idea. Guys, what if I have to buy a wedding ring or something in 2 years? Should I be paying my student loans off at a higher rate? Seems silly, they are ridiculously high as is. Oh that leads me to another question... wtf is consolidating student loans? Should I do that? Will it lower my payments? GUYS!!!!
Pay off anything greater than 7% interest(Student loans, CC, etc) before you start plowing all your money into retirement savings.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on April 16, 2013, 01:15:40 PM
Haven't read a single post in this thread. Index funds. Enjoy your retirement! go cats
Makes me laugh when people make it more complicated than this.
Post by: The Big Train on April 16, 2013, 01:39:37 PM
Post by: slobber on April 16, 2013, 01:41:18 PM
I always invest about $10 in lottery tickets when the jackpot gets in the 100's of millions, seems like a pretty good investment.Very sound advice. Anyone that buys lottery tickets when it is only at $30 or $40 million is a fool. :cheers:
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 16, 2013, 01:51:46 PM
Post by: 8manpick on April 16, 2013, 01:58:53 PM
I think it's gotta be over $450M for it to make mathematical sense.There is a point where the expected rate of return becomes higher than the cost of a ticket. There was some study, maybe posted on here, about that a couple years ago. That was when it was only $1 a ticket though and your number was about right.
Post by: bubbles4ksu on April 16, 2013, 02:04:16 PM
I think it's gotta be over $450M for it to make mathematical sense.There is a point where the expected rate of return becomes higher than the cost of a ticket. There was some study, maybe posted on here, about that a couple years ago. That was when it was only $1 a ticket though and your number was about right.
it's a different number for every lottery game, of course. an australian investment firm once bought something like 5 million of 7 million possible numbers for the virginia state lottery because the odds were great. they won and pocketed a few million.
Post by: lopakman on April 16, 2013, 02:07:46 PM
you can take principal out of the roth whenever you want? how have they not put savings accounts right out of business?
I really don't understand why anybody would have a savings account.
I dont think you understand investing
Savings accounts pay less than 1% interest. Why would you put your money into a savings account when you could just make extra contributions to your 401k, pay extra on the mortgage, buy stocks, etc? Really just about anything you do with your money will be better than just letting it sit in a savings account.
Let me ask you this, what will you do if you lose your job? That's why you have savings. You don't have to put it in a "savings account" There are short term CD's, money markets that pay more than 1%
Post by: steve dave on April 16, 2013, 02:08:30 PM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 16, 2013, 02:11:08 PM
you can take principal out of the roth whenever you want? how have they not put savings accounts right out of business?
I really don't understand why anybody would have a savings account.
I dont think you understand investing
Savings accounts pay less than 1% interest. Why would you put your money into a savings account when you could just make extra contributions to your 401k, pay extra on the mortgage, buy stocks, etc? Really just about anything you do with your money will be better than just letting it sit in a savings account.
Let me ask you this, what will you do if you lose your job? That's why you have savings. You don't have to put it in a "savings account" There are short term CD's, money markets that pay more than 1%
I keep extra money in my checking account, which earns more than 2% interest. Also, if I lose my job, I just find a new one. It's not that hard.
Post by: lopakman on April 16, 2013, 02:17:18 PM
Can't you pull from your Roth IRA for your first house or something of that nature?
You never want to pull any money out of your retirement fund, bad habit....but yes.
Say your have a Roth IRA and you have 20k in it. 15k of that is principal that you put in....You could pull out all 15k if you wanted and use that to pay for a house or any other emergency that may pop up.
Well I thought it was no penalty. I understand that you can always pull it out but you get taxed like crazy. Just thought there was an exception for your first home.
You are confusing a 401k and a roth IRA...there is some way to pull money out of a 401k for your first home but I dont know much about that.
With a roth IRA you can pull out your principal at any time with no penalty because you have already paid taxes on this money.
Withdrawal from 401k for first home purchase is considered to be a "hardship" condition. You're still taxed, penalized, and can't contribute for 6 months. Forget it.
you can take a loan from your 401k without any of that. but, with mortage rates at essentially zero I don't know why you would.
No you can't. If you take money from your 401k you are penalized. You can roll your 401k over to an IRA to avoid the penalties but you'd be paying a higher interest rate. Mortgage rates are not near zero, they're slightly below 4% for those with excellent credit who would never need to do this in the first place. If you need to borrow against your 401k for a house then do it but it's going to cost you more in the long run.
Post by: lopakman on April 16, 2013, 02:20:47 PM
if you put money in a cd I'll punch you in the face
I've been laddering 40k in CD's for 10 years. It's our six months living expenses. I don't see the problem with this.
Post by: steve dave on April 16, 2013, 02:21:45 PM
Can't you pull from your Roth IRA for your first house or something of that nature?
You never want to pull any money out of your retirement fund, bad habit....but yes.
Say your have a Roth IRA and you have 20k in it. 15k of that is principal that you put in....You could pull out all 15k if you wanted and use that to pay for a house or any other emergency that may pop up.
Well I thought it was no penalty. I understand that you can always pull it out but you get taxed like crazy. Just thought there was an exception for your first home.
You are confusing a 401k and a roth IRA...there is some way to pull money out of a 401k for your first home but I dont know much about that.
With a roth IRA you can pull out your principal at any time with no penalty because you have already paid taxes on this money.
Withdrawal from 401k for first home purchase is considered to be a "hardship" condition. You're still taxed, penalized, and can't contribute for 6 months. Forget it.
you can take a loan from your 401k without any of that. but, with mortage rates at essentially zero I don't know why you would.
No you can't. If you take money from your 401k you are penalized. You can roll your 401k over to an IRA to avoid the penalties but you'd be paying a higher interest rate. Mortgage rates are not near zero, they're slightly below 4% for those with excellent credit who would never need to do this in the first place. If you need to borrow against your 401k for a house then do it but it's going to cost you more in the long run.
you are wrong, dumbass.
http://www.forbes.com/2008/09/02/401k-loan-borrowing-pf-education-in_rw_0902investopedia_inl.html
Post by: mocat on April 16, 2013, 02:22:40 PM
if you put money in a cd I'll punch you in the face
SD tell me if this is an accurate description of a typical CD:
I could put $2000 into a 2-year 1.8% CD right now and walk away after 2 years of not touching that money with a cool $2036 :gocho:
Post by: steve dave on April 16, 2013, 02:23:17 PM
if you put money in a cd I'll punch you in the face
I've been laddering 40k in CD's for 10 years. It's our six months living expenses. I don't see the problem with this.
not surprised by this at all
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 16, 2013, 02:24:20 PM
if you put money in a cd I'll punch you in the face
SD tell me if this is an accurate description of a typical CD:
I could put $2000 into a 2-year 1.8% CD right now and walk away after 2 years of not touching that money with a cool $2036 :gocho:
You would earn more than $36. It would be closer to $100.
Post by: steve dave on April 16, 2013, 02:29:18 PM
if you put money in a cd I'll punch you in the face
SD tell me if this is an accurate description of a typical CD:
I could put $2000 into a 2-year 1.8% CD right now and walk away after 2 years of not touching that money with a cool $2036 :gocho:
You would earn more than $36. It would be closer to $100.
about $70. let's not send mocat out to put down a payment on a lambo just yet.
Post by: mocat on April 16, 2013, 02:30:59 PM
if you put money in a cd I'll punch you in the face
SD tell me if this is an accurate description of a typical CD:
I could put $2000 into a 2-year 1.8% CD right now and walk away after 2 years of not touching that money with a cool $2036 :gocho:
You would earn more than $36. It would be closer to $100.
about $70. let's not send mocat out to put down a payment on a lambo just yet.
CDs seem like a legal and socially accepted form of Nigerian Prince'ing people :confused:
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 16, 2013, 02:32:30 PM
if you put money in a cd I'll punch you in the face
SD tell me if this is an accurate description of a typical CD:
I could put $2000 into a 2-year 1.8% CD right now and walk away after 2 years of not touching that money with a cool $2036 :gocho:
You would earn more than $36. It would be closer to $100.
about $70. let's not send mocat out to put down a payment on a lambo just yet.
CDs seem like a legal and socially accepted form of Nigerian Prince'ing people :confused:
If you are already like 70 years old, and have enough money to reasonably live on until you die, they aren't a horrible idea because there is no risk of taking a loss like there is with a good investment.
Post by: lopakman on April 16, 2013, 02:34:00 PM
Can't you pull from your Roth IRA for your first house or something of that nature?
You never want to pull any money out of your retirement fund, bad habit....but yes.
Say your have a Roth IRA and you have 20k in it. 15k of that is principal that you put in....You could pull out all 15k if you wanted and use that to pay for a house or any other emergency that may pop up.
Well I thought it was no penalty. I understand that you can always pull it out but you get taxed like crazy. Just thought there was an exception for your first home.
You are confusing a 401k and a roth IRA...there is some way to pull money out of a 401k for your first home but I dont know much about that.
With a roth IRA you can pull out your principal at any time with no penalty because you have already paid taxes on this money.
Withdrawal from 401k for first home purchase is considered to be a "hardship" condition. You're still taxed, penalized, and can't contribute for 6 months. Forget it.
you can take a loan from your 401k without any of that. but, with mortage rates at essentially zero I don't know why you would.
No you can't. If you take money from your 401k you are penalized. You can roll your 401k over to an IRA to avoid the penalties but you'd be paying a higher interest rate. Mortgage rates are not near zero, they're slightly below 4% for those with excellent credit who would never need to do this in the first place. If you need to borrow against your 401k for a house then do it but it's going to cost you more in the long run.
you are wrong, dumbass.
http://www.forbes.com/2008/09/02/401k-loan-borrowing-pf-education-in_rw_0902investopedia_inl.html
Guess there's two sides to every story huh?
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/retirement/06/eightreasons401k.asp (http://www.investopedia.com/articles/retirement/06/eightreasons401k.asp)
Post by: kostakio on April 16, 2013, 02:34:08 PM
Also dont pay extra on your mortgage unless your are paying PMI...If your mortgage rate is 4% and the market returns an average of 7% you are losing money.There is some psychological advantage but no financial advantage.
I generally agree with this, but there is some financial advantage in paying extra on your mortgage if you don't plan on living at your current house for an extended period of time. When rates go back up, you will have to get a new mortgage at the higher rate when you move and having a larger amount of the value of your current home paid off will reduce the amount you have to borrow at the higher rate. There are better investments out there, but paying extra on the mortgage is better than letting your money sit in a savings or checking account.
Paying a mortgage off early is maybe slightly better then letting it sit in a savings or checking account. However, I don't follow your logic on the having to borrow less if you move part. Sure you'll have more equity in your current house but even after you sell it you will not have more liquid worth to put towards the purchase of a new house unless of course you took that extra money and lost it.
I don't recomend paying off your house early under almost any circumstance. For one you want to stay liquid as much as possible and homes are not liquid. Two you want to diversify and invest in things other then real estate. You already own the home and will bear 100% of the value fluctuations. No reason top tie up any more capital in it then required to avoid PMI. Even with money sitting in savings you have to take into account interest will likely go up at some point and could easily eclipse the 3% and change mortage rate you can get right now. I'm not advocating letting the money sit in savings but if the choice were to sit in savings or pay the mortage early I'd probably choose savings right now.
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on April 16, 2013, 02:37:16 PM
Post by: lopakman on April 16, 2013, 02:38:32 PM
Also dont pay extra on your mortgage unless your are paying PMI...If your mortgage rate is 4% and the market returns an average of 7% you are losing money.There is some psychological advantage but no financial advantage.
I generally agree with this, but there is some financial advantage in paying extra on your mortgage if you don't plan on living at your current house for an extended period of time. When rates go back up, you will have to get a new mortgage at the higher rate when you move and having a larger amount of the value of your current home paid off will reduce the amount you have to borrow at the higher rate. There are better investments out there, but paying extra on the mortgage is better than letting your money sit in a savings or checking account.
Paying a mortgage off early is maybe slightly better then letting it sit in a savings or checking account. However, I don't follow your logic on the having to borrow less if you move part. Sure you'll have more equity in your current house but even after you sell it you will not have more liquid worth to put towards the purchase of a new house unless of course you took that extra money and lost it.
I don't recomend paying off your house early under almost any circumstance. For one you want to stay liquid as much as possible and homes are not liquid. Two you want to diversify and invest in things other then real estate. You already own the home and will bear 100% of the value fluctuations. No reason top tie up any more capital in it then required to avoid PMI. Even with money sitting in savings you have to take into account interest will likely go up at some point and could easily eclipse the 3% and change mortage rate you can get right now. I'm not advocating letting the money sit in savings but if the choice were to sit in savings or pay the mortage early I'd probably choose savings right now.
If you want to pay extra on mortgage make on extra payment a year and that will knock off 5-7 years of your loan depending on interest rate. If you have enough money in savings to pay off your mortgate then probably Steve Dave and I could both agree you have too much cash on hand.
Post by: steve dave on April 16, 2013, 02:38:39 PM
Can't you pull from your Roth IRA for your first house or something of that nature?
You never want to pull any money out of your retirement fund, bad habit....but yes.
Say your have a Roth IRA and you have 20k in it. 15k of that is principal that you put in....You could pull out all 15k if you wanted and use that to pay for a house or any other emergency that may pop up.
Well I thought it was no penalty. I understand that you can always pull it out but you get taxed like crazy. Just thought there was an exception for your first home.
You are confusing a 401k and a roth IRA...there is some way to pull money out of a 401k for your first home but I dont know much about that.
With a roth IRA you can pull out your principal at any time with no penalty because you have already paid taxes on this money.
Withdrawal from 401k for first home purchase is considered to be a "hardship" condition. You're still taxed, penalized, and can't contribute for 6 months. Forget it.
you can take a loan from your 401k without any of that. but, with mortage rates at essentially zero I don't know why you would.
No you can't. If you take money from your 401k you are penalized. You can roll your 401k over to an IRA to avoid the penalties but you'd be paying a higher interest rate. Mortgage rates are not near zero, they're slightly below 4% for those with excellent credit who would never need to do this in the first place. If you need to borrow against your 401k for a house then do it but it's going to cost you more in the long run.
you are wrong, dumbass.
http://www.forbes.com/2008/09/02/401k-loan-borrowing-pf-education-in_rw_0902investopedia_inl.html
Guess there's two sides to every story huh?
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/retirement/06/eightreasons401k.asp (http://www.investopedia.com/articles/retirement/06/eightreasons401k.asp)
lol, an article about why it's stupid to do it is not a refutation of the ability to do it :lol:
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 02:42:33 PM
I dont want KSC or any other youngsters coming in here and accidentally taking your advice
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 16, 2013, 02:44:24 PM
Hey lopakman, take a lap and let the big boys hand out the good advice.
I dont want KSC or any other youngsters coming in here and accidentally taking your advice
Someone just take all my moneys and make like 2-3% every year except for the moneys I need to buy stuff and live on. Is that too much to ask for? Also when I retire at age 65 or whatever make sure I'm not a poor.
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 02:45:43 PM
Hey lopakman, take a lap and let the big boys hand out the good advice.
I dont want KSC or any other youngsters coming in here and accidentally taking your advice
Someone just take all my moneys and make like 2-3% every year except for the moneys I need to buy stuff and live on. Is that too much to ask for? Also when I retire at age 65 or whatever make sure I'm not a poor.
Just buy an index fund and you will make 7% every year.
Post by: steve dave on April 16, 2013, 02:50:01 PM
Hey lopakman, take a lap and let the big boys hand out the good advice.
I dont want KSC or any other youngsters coming in here and accidentally taking your advice
Someone just take all my moneys and make like 2-3% every year except for the moneys I need to buy stuff and live on. Is that too much to ask for? Also when I retire at age 65 or whatever make sure I'm not a poor.
Just buy an index fund and you will make 7% every year over the long run.
Post by: lopakman on April 16, 2013, 02:52:01 PM
Can't you pull from your Roth IRA for your first house or something of that nature?
You never want to pull any money out of your retirement fund, bad habit....but yes.
Say your have a Roth IRA and you have 20k in it. 15k of that is principal that you put in....You could pull out all 15k if you wanted and use that to pay for a house or any other emergency that may pop up.
Well I thought it was no penalty. I understand that you can always pull it out but you get taxed like crazy. Just thought there was an exception for your first home.
You are confusing a 401k and a roth IRA...there is some way to pull money out of a 401k for your first home but I dont know much about that.
With a roth IRA you can pull out your principal at any time with no penalty because you have already paid taxes on this money.
Withdrawal from 401k for first home purchase is considered to be a "hardship" condition. You're still taxed, penalized, and can't contribute for 6 months. Forget it.
you can take a loan from your 401k without any of that. but, with mortage rates at essentially zero I don't know why you would.
No you can't. If you take money from your 401k you are penalized. You can roll your 401k over to an IRA to avoid the penalties but you'd be paying a higher interest rate. Mortgage rates are not near zero, they're slightly below 4% for those with excellent credit who would never need to do this in the first place. If you need to borrow against your 401k for a house then do it but it's going to cost you more in the long run.
you are wrong, dumbass.
http://www.forbes.com/2008/09/02/401k-loan-borrowing-pf-education-in_rw_0902investopedia_inl.html
Guess there's two sides to every story huh?
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/retirement/06/eightreasons401k.asp (http://www.investopedia.com/articles/retirement/06/eightreasons401k.asp)
lol, an article about why it's stupid to do it is not a refutation of the ability to do it :lol:
I didn't say you couldn't do it, I said you shouldn't do it. We obviously have different investing strategies. I'm 37 and have two kids, I choose not to be as aggressive as I was when I graduated fifteen years ago. What I'm doing is working out well for me and my family. Our house will be paid off by the time my 5 year old goes to college and our 529 IRA will cover all college expenses for both of our kids. By the time my two year old graduates from college we'll be retired. That's my definition of success.
I hope you get everything you want out of your investment strategy and I consider this matter closed.
:cheers:
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 16, 2013, 02:53:53 PM
Hey lopakman, take a lap and let the big boys hand out the good advice.
I dont want KSC or any other youngsters coming in here and accidentally taking your advice
Someone just take all my moneys and make like 2-3% every year except for the moneys I need to buy stuff and live on. Is that too much to ask for? Also when I retire at age 65 or whatever make sure I'm not a poor.
Just buy an index fund and you will make 7% every year.
Link? I know absolutely nothing about index funds.
Also I want KSU Cats season tickets for football. Pretty simple budget here, folks. Who wants to be my personal finance manager?
Post by: mocat on April 16, 2013, 02:55:25 PM
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 16, 2013, 02:58:49 PM
It's almost like KSC and I are the same person here dames and gents
wanna just combine our money so we would only need 1 personal finance manager?
Post by: lopakman on April 16, 2013, 02:58:57 PM
Hey lopakman, take a lap and let the big boys hand out the good advice.
I dont want KSC or any other youngsters coming in here and accidentally taking your advice
Someone just take all my moneys and make like 2-3% every year except for the moneys I need to buy stuff and live on. Is that too much to ask for? Also when I retire at age 65 or whatever make sure I'm not a poor.
Just buy an index fund and you will make 7% every year.
You mean you could achieve an average return of 7% every year BASED on Histoical Annual Returns data. Cause if you're saying you'll make 7% every year that would just be ridiculous. May want to rephrase before sharing your "big boy" advice.
Post by: slobber on April 16, 2013, 03:03:21 PM
Post by: steve dave on April 16, 2013, 03:10:22 PM
I didn't say you couldn't do it, I said you shouldn't do it.......I consider this matter closed.
of course you want it closed, because you said this:
Withdrawal from 401k for first home purchase is considered to be a "hardship" condition. You're still taxed, penalized, and can't contribute for 6 months. Forget it.
you can take a loan from your 401k without any of that. but, with mortage rates at essentially zero I don't know why you would.
No you can't. If you take money from your 401k you are penalized. You can roll your 401k over to an IRA to avoid the penalties but you'd be paying a higher interest rate.
it has nothing to do with investing strategy. it has to do with me saying you can take a loan without being taxed, paying a penalty, etc. and you saying you couldn't.
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 03:11:38 PM
Hey lopakman, take a lap and let the big boys hand out the good advice.
I dont want KSC or any other youngsters coming in here and accidentally taking your advice
Someone just take all my moneys and make like 2-3% every year except for the moneys I need to buy stuff and live on. Is that too much to ask for? Also when I retire at age 65 or whatever make sure I'm not a poor.
Just buy an index fund and you will make 7% every year.
Link? I know absolutely nothing about index funds.
Also I want KSU Cats season tickets for football. Pretty simple budget here, folks. Who wants to be my personal finance manager?
I dont know enough about index funds to recommend an particular one, ask pete or something. All my funds are currently in more aggressive investments since I am just a youngster.
I have been reading about Index funds and will probably add them to the portfolio at some point. Index funds are basically just mutual funds that are built to track the stock market tit for tat. The dow goes up 10% in a year then your portfolio goes up 10% for the year. Their expense ratio's are also very low which is a good thing.
They are great for people who want to put minimal effort into investing and still build a nice retirement fund.
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 16, 2013, 03:13:52 PM
Post by: steve dave on April 16, 2013, 03:15:49 PM
Hey lopakman, take a lap and let the big boys hand out the good advice.
I dont want KSC or any other youngsters coming in here and accidentally taking your advice
Someone just take all my moneys and make like 2-3% every year except for the moneys I need to buy stuff and live on. Is that too much to ask for? Also when I retire at age 65 or whatever make sure I'm not a poor.
Just buy an index fund and you will make 7% every year.
Link? I know absolutely nothing about index funds.
Also I want KSU Cats season tickets for football. Pretty simple budget here, folks. Who wants to be my personal finance manager?
open your IRA, throw it all into whichever one of these you fit into:
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/vanguard/TargetRetirementList
Post by: SabiNation on April 16, 2013, 03:16:46 PM
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 16, 2013, 03:18:36 PM
open your IRA, throw it all into whichever one of these you fit into:
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/vanguard/TargetRetirementList
thanks super awesome life planner steve dave!
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 03:26:48 PM
open your IRA, throw it all into whichever one of these you fit into:
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/vanguard/TargetRetirementList
thanks super awesome life planner steve dave!
Yeah, the one thing about Index funds is that most(at least mine) 401k's dont offer them so you will have to get an IRA first.
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 03:27:39 PM
Congrats, ben ji, you're hired! Just bring your cute ass puppy to our meetings and we'll get along just great. Also don't spend all my money on fishing stuff cuz I'm gonna need it at some point.
No meeting neccesary, just ask questions here and send me 1 fishing pole a year as payment.
Post by: The Whale on April 16, 2013, 03:30:56 PM
At least make sure you invest enough to get the complete company match coming out of school.
Consider upping your retirement % with each raise. 4% raise -- try to add 1-2% to retirement.
Since you'll eventually be hitting the 401k max, figure out how your company does matching. Some may only match X% every paycheck that you actually contribute at least X%. So if you hit the yearly max in October and shut off contributions, you may be leaving money on the table.
Don't invest much (if any) in company stock.
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 16, 2013, 03:33:13 PM
investing tips for new grads:
At least make sure you invest enough to get the complete company match coming out of school.
Consider upping your retirement % with each raise. 4% raise -- try to add 1-2% to retirement.
Since you'll eventually be hitting the 401k max, figure out how your company does matching. Some may only match X% every paycheck that you actually contribute at least X%. So if you hit the yearly max in October and shut off contributions, you may be leaving money on the table.
Don't invest much (if any) in company stock.
ben ji! should i listen to this guy?
Post by: tdaver on April 16, 2013, 03:34:10 PM
Should I leave it, roll-over to new 401k, roll-over IRA? I'm already maxing out Roth and current 401k up to match.
Post by: steve dave on April 16, 2013, 03:34:51 PM
open your IRA, throw it all into whichever one of these you fit into:
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/vanguard/TargetRetirementList
thanks super awesome life planner steve dave!
Yeah, the one thing about Index funds is that most(at least mine) 401k's dont offer them so you will have to get an IRA first.
Our company's 401k is through Vanguard so we have about 20 different Vanguard funds to choose from as well as all their target retirement funds. It's pretty baller. We also have a Roth 401k option. 100% match to 6%. Also a pension. Yep, a pension. In 2013. If I quit today I already get like $500 a month starting at age 65.
Post by: steve dave on April 16, 2013, 03:36:10 PM
I changed jobs a couple years ago and still haven't done anything with my old 401k. It's all in one of those age-based retirement funds except for maybe 1% in the old company stock.
Should I leave it, roll-over to new 401k, roll-over IRA? I'm already maxing out Roth and current 401k up to match.
Since you already have an IRA you should prolly just roll it over into the current IRA. More for ease of use than anything.
Post by: steve dave on April 16, 2013, 03:36:28 PM
Since you'll eventually be hitting the 401k max, figure out how your company does matching. Some may only match X% every paycheck that you actually contribute at least X%. So if you hit the yearly max in October and shut off contributions, you may be leaving money on the table.
good tip here
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 16, 2013, 03:40:20 PM
Post by: steve dave on April 16, 2013, 03:41:09 PM
Also, max individual contribution to Roth IRA is (right now) $5000. Why do I, ever year, contribute $5200 thinking that is max? I don't know folks. So like learn from my mistake here young folks.
$5500 (unless you are old balls and then it's more)
1998–2001 $2,000
2002–2004 $3,000
2005 $4,000
2006–2007 $4,000
2008–2012 $5,000
2013 $5,500
Post by: Kat Kid on April 16, 2013, 03:42:27 PM
Also, max individual contribution to Roth IRA is (right now) $5000. Why do I, ever year, contribute $5200 thinking that is max? I don't know folks. So like learn from my mistake here young folks.
$5000 for 2012 $5500 for 2013.
http://www.irs.gov/Retirement-Plans/Plan-Participant,-Employee/Retirement-Topics-IRA-Contribution-Limits (http://www.irs.gov/Retirement-Plans/Plan-Participant,-Employee/Retirement-Topics-IRA-Contribution-Limits)
Post by: mocat on April 16, 2013, 03:44:18 PM
open your IRA, throw it all into whichever one of these you fit into:
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/vanguard/TargetRetirementList
thanks super awesome life planner steve dave!
Yeah, the one thing about Index funds is that most(at least mine) 401k's dont offer them so you will have to get an IRA first.
Our company's 401k is through Vanguard so we have about 20 different Vanguard funds to choose from as well as all their target retirement funds. It's pretty baller. We also have a Roth 401k option. 100% match to 6%. Also a pension. Yep, a pension. In 2013. If I quit today I already get like $500 a month starting at age 65.
I just checked my 401(k) options and there are 2 options for Contribution Rate: Pre-tax, and Roth. Do i switch to Roth?
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 16, 2013, 03:44:40 PM
Also, max individual contribution to Roth IRA is (right now) $5000. Why do I, ever year, contribute $5200 thinking that is max? I don't know folks. So like learn from my mistake here young folks.
$5500 (unless you are old balls and then it's more)
1998–2001 $2,000
2002–2004 $3,000
2005 $4,000
2006–2007 $4,000
2008–2012 $5,000
2013 $5,500
I meant for 2012. But good to hear it went up! :thumbs:
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 03:47:29 PM
investing tips for new grads:
At least make sure you invest enough to get the complete company match coming out of school.
Consider upping your retirement % with each raise. 4% raise -- try to add 1-2% to retirement.
Since you'll eventually be hitting the 401k max, figure out how your company does matching. Some may only match X% every paycheck that you actually contribute at least X%. So if you hit the yearly max in October and shut off contributions, you may be leaving money on the table.
Don't invest much (if any) in company stock.
ben ji! should i listen to this guy?
Good advice here. Only difference I have is that I would invest into your 401k just enough to get the full match. Some companies will match X amount with no limit but most companies will only match the first 6% or 50% of the first 10% etc.
Say your compay will only match the first 5% you invest but you want to invest 15% of your income. Put the first 5% in your 401k to get the company match and then put the remaining 10%(after tax) in your roth ira to get access to more fund choices. If you max out your IRA and still have some of that 10% left then throw it back in the 401k.
Post by: Brock Landers on April 16, 2013, 03:50:21 PM
open your IRA, throw it all into whichever one of these you fit into:
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/vanguard/TargetRetirementList
thanks super awesome life planner steve dave!
Yeah, the one thing about Index funds is that most(at least mine) 401k's dont offer them so you will have to get an IRA first.
Our company's 401k is through Vanguard so we have about 20 different Vanguard funds to choose from as well as all their target retirement funds. It's pretty baller. We also have a Roth 401k option. 100% match to 6%. Also a pension. Yep, a pension. In 2013. If I quit today I already get like $500 a month starting at age 65.
My company discontinued their pension plan to new associates like 6 weeks before I started :curse:
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 16, 2013, 03:53:18 PM
investing tips for new grads:
At least make sure you invest enough to get the complete company match coming out of school.
Consider upping your retirement % with each raise. 4% raise -- try to add 1-2% to retirement.
Since you'll eventually be hitting the 401k max, figure out how your company does matching. Some may only match X% every paycheck that you actually contribute at least X%. So if you hit the yearly max in October and shut off contributions, you may be leaving money on the table.
Don't invest much (if any) in company stock.
ben ji! should i listen to this guy?
Good advice here. Only difference I have is that I would invest into your 401k just enough to get the full match. Some companies will match X amount with no limit but most companies will only match the first 6% or 50% of the first 10% etc.
Say your compay will only match the first 5% you invest but you want to invest 15% of your income. Put the first 5% in your 401k to get the company match and then put the remaining 10%(after tax) in your roth ira to get access to more fund choices. If you max out your IRA and still have some of that 10% left then throw it back in the 401k.
Yeah, so I should be putting money into my Roth IRA every month? I basically just made a (semi) large contribution this morning, it has more money in it than my 401k does right now, about double actually. My company matches up to a certain percent and then a partial match up to another percent. I should be putting in as much as they will match even part of it, right?
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 03:55:44 PM
open your IRA, throw it all into whichever one of these you fit into:
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/vanguard/TargetRetirementList
thanks super awesome life planner steve dave!
Yeah, the one thing about Index funds is that most(at least mine) 401k's dont offer them so you will have to get an IRA first.
Our company's 401k is through Vanguard so we have about 20 different Vanguard funds to choose from as well as all their target retirement funds. It's pretty baller. We also have a Roth 401k option. 100% match to 6%. Also a pension. Yep, a pension. In 2013. If I quit today I already get like $500 a month starting at age 65.
A PENSION :sdeek:, thats crazy talk.
I just checked my 401k options with American Funds and they have like 10 not counting the Target date funds. Only 4 are "Growth" funds.
I havent made up my mind on target date funds, have about 30% of my 401k in one though.
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 03:58:41 PM
investing tips for new grads:
At least make sure you invest enough to get the complete company match coming out of school.
Consider upping your retirement % with each raise. 4% raise -- try to add 1-2% to retirement.
Since you'll eventually be hitting the 401k max, figure out how your company does matching. Some may only match X% every paycheck that you actually contribute at least X%. So if you hit the yearly max in October and shut off contributions, you may be leaving money on the table.
Don't invest much (if any) in company stock.
ben ji! should i listen to this guy?
Good advice here. Only difference I have is that I would invest into your 401k just enough to get the full match. Some companies will match X amount with no limit but most companies will only match the first 6% or 50% of the first 10% etc.
Say your compay will only match the first 5% you invest but you want to invest 15% of your income. Put the first 5% in your 401k to get the company match and then put the remaining 10%(after tax) in your roth ira to get access to more fund choices. If you max out your IRA and still have some of that 10% left then throw it back in the 401k.
Yeah, so I should be putting money into my Roth IRA every month? I basically just made a (semi) large contribution this morning, it has more money in it than my 401k does right now, about double actually. My company matches up to a certain percent and then a partial match up to another percent. I should be putting in as much as they will match even part of it, right?
Correct, even if you get a partial match its free money.
Just figure out how much you need to contribute each month for max out your IRA((5500-amount you just put in)/9) and just have it automatically deducted each month and have it put into whatever fund you want it in.
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 16, 2013, 04:02:22 PM
Post by: The Whale on April 16, 2013, 04:04:56 PM
Our company's 401k is through Vanguard so we have about 20 different Vanguard funds to choose from as well as all their target retirement funds. It's pretty baller. We also have a Roth 401k option. 100% match to 6%. Also a pension. Yep, a pension. In 2013. If I quit today I already get like $500 a month starting at age 65.
100% match to 6% WITH the pension?
:sdeek:
Gotta figure eventually the pension will be bought out, but still...
Post by: GoodForAnother on April 16, 2013, 04:15:07 PM
Our company's 401k is through Vanguard so we have about 20 different Vanguard funds to choose from as well as all their target retirement funds. It's pretty baller. We also have a Roth 401k option. 100% match to 6%. Also a pension. Yep, a pension. In 2013. If I quit today I already get like $500 a month starting at age 65.
our companies have identical retirement benefits :thumbs:
though idk really about the roth 401 option. I get the 6% and a pension though.
WAIT MAYBE WE WORK AT THE SAME PLACE
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 04:17:46 PM
:sdeek: im not made of money, ben ji. you should know that you're my personal finance manager.
Okay well take 10/15%(whichever you prefer) of your salary.
x= amount you want to save
Y= amount you contribute to 401k to get any type of match
z= amount you contribute to IRA
X-Y=Z
Once you figure out what Z is just divide it by 12 and have it automatically withdrawn each month on a certain date.
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 16, 2013, 04:20:27 PM
:sdeek: im not made of money, ben ji. you should know that you're my personal finance manager.
Okay well take 10/15%(whichever you prefer) of your salary.
x= amount you want to save
Y= amount you contribute to 401k to get any type of match
z= amount you contribute to IRA
X-Y=Z
Once you figure out what Z is just divide it by 12 and have it automatically withdrawn each month on a certain date.
:thumbs: you got it, boss.
Post by: GoodForAnother on April 16, 2013, 04:20:45 PM
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 16, 2013, 04:23:34 PM
if I work for this company until I'm 55 I get 967.68 a month until I die. or a bunch of other silly options that are all like 900 a month or so. or I can take 1879.52 for 10 years. or I can get a lump sum of 197,519.20. that's pretty cool I guess.
are you looking for advice? ask ben ji, he handles that kind of stuff for me
Post by: CNS on April 16, 2013, 04:26:24 PM
if I work for this company until I'm 55 I get 967.68 a month until I die. or a bunch of other silly options that are all like 900 a month or so. or I can take 1879.52 for 10 years. or I can get a lump sum of 197,519.20. that's pretty cool I guess.
1. Lump sum
2. craps thread
3. profit
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 04:27:55 PM
Post by: Fedor on April 16, 2013, 04:31:23 PM
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 16, 2013, 04:37:03 PM
Let's talk student loans, and not those pud undergrad ones with 1.9% interest. I am talking grown ass man grad school student loans with the terrible interest rates. Is there any way to consolidate with a better rate or term?
Also answer this for married couple, can combine?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 16, 2013, 04:41:24 PM
Let's talk student loans, and not those pud undergrad ones with 1.9% interest. I am talking grown ass man grad school student loans with the terrible interest rates. Is there any way to consolidate with a better rate or term?
What rate are you paying? Maybe you could refinance your house and use that money to pay off the student loans. It really kind of depends on your situation.
Post by: Fedor on April 16, 2013, 04:44:41 PM
Planning on moving soon, so that hampers things a bit. Paying 6.7% on a 10-yr term, :barf:.Let's talk student loans, and not those pud undergrad ones with 1.9% interest. I am talking grown ass man grad school student loans with the terrible interest rates. Is there any way to consolidate with a better rate or term?
What rate are you paying? Maybe you could refinance your house and use that money to pay off the student loans. It really kind of depends on your situation.
Post by: ChiComCat on April 16, 2013, 04:45:44 PM
I dont know anything about pensions, dont have one :frown:.
Don't you have to work somewhere like 10 years to get a pension? I don't think its some retirement thing that you can just throw money at.
Post by: hemmy on April 16, 2013, 04:46:53 PM
Post by: mancattanite on April 16, 2013, 05:27:08 PM
Planning on moving soon, so that hampers things a bit. Paying 6.7% on a 10-yr term, :barf:.Let's talk student loans, and not those pud undergrad ones with 1.9% interest. I am talking grown ass man grad school student loans with the terrible interest rates. Is there any way to consolidate with a better rate or term?
What rate are you paying? Maybe you could refinance your house and use that money to pay off the student loans. It really kind of depends on your situation.
I always thought consolidation was more to lengthen the term and lower the monthly payment, not really to help with the rate... :frown:
Post by: GoodForAnother on April 16, 2013, 05:36:33 PM
if I work for this company until I'm 55 I get 967.68 a month until I die. or a bunch of other silly options that are all like 900 a month or so. or I can take 1879.52 for 10 years. or I can get a lump sum of 197,519.20. that's pretty cool I guess.
1. Lump sum
2. craps thread
3. profit
hmm, good idea. or I could live off my 401 and take my 900 a month and just go play craps with it.
Post by: jmlynch1 on April 16, 2013, 05:48:11 PM
Post by: Fedor on April 16, 2013, 06:04:22 PM
Well, you guys are really stumped on this one...Planning on moving soon, so that hampers things a bit. Paying 6.7% on a 10-yr term, :barf:.Let's talk student loans, and not those pud undergrad ones with 1.9% interest. I am talking grown ass man grad school student loans with the terrible interest rates. Is there any way to consolidate with a better rate or term?
What rate are you paying? Maybe you could refinance your house and use that money to pay off the student loans. It really kind of depends on your situation.
I always thought consolidation was more to lengthen the term and lower the monthly payment, not really to help with the rate... :frown:
Post by: reidrolled on April 16, 2013, 06:38:10 PM
#1 stevedave actually works in the finance industry and has for a while.
1a. there are a couple who like to think they could work in the finance industry.
#2 this entire thread would only be one, maybe two pages if the posters referenced in 1a knew how to work google.
Post by: GoodForAnother on April 16, 2013, 06:53:02 PM
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2013, 07:12:09 PM
2 things have become painfully obvious in this thread.
#1 stevedave actually works in the finance industry and has for a while.
1a. there are a couple who like to think they could work in the finance industry.
1b. reidrolled is a hater who doesnt like it when friends give advice to friends
#2 this entire thread would only be one, maybe two pages if the posters referenced in 1a knew how to work google.
Post by: GoodForAnother on April 16, 2013, 07:27:40 PM
Seems hard to invest a ton of money in retirement from my seat at age 20-something. I have very few monthly expenses... pretty much just student loans and rent, but I feel like watching all that money pile up in my checking account is a bad idea. Guys, what if I have to buy a wedding ring or something in 2 years? Should I be paying my student loans off at a higher rate? Seems silly, they are ridiculously high as is. Oh that leads me to another question... wtf is consolidating student loans? Should I do that? Will it lower my payments? GUYS!!!!
not federal loans. if you have multiple private loans, you can consolidate them and save money.
I consolidated all my fed loans except Perkins. was that dumb? crap!
Post by: EMAWmeister on April 16, 2013, 07:46:56 PM
Alright, next step, you guys...
Have a 401K brewing with the maximum match and just opened a Roth IRA. What else? Wouldn't mind playing the market a little bit at a time. What's the best way to do that? Does goEMAW.com have stock? I know a good investment when I see one.
Give me your money, KSC. I'll be sure that your money makes money. I was thinking about Herbalife or this one startup that takes precious metals out of all the poor countries in Africa and moves them to Belgium.
Send me a PM
Post by: kostakio on April 16, 2013, 07:51:22 PM
are index funds good? that's what my 401 is. am I smart?
Yeah index finds are good because they have lower fees and most actively managed funds don't beat their indexes anyway.
Lots of people are touting Roths and they are good but the problem is you can phase out of them pretty easily especially if you are married and both you and your spouse have good jobs.
Post by: GoodForAnother on April 16, 2013, 07:56:27 PM
are index funds good? that's what my 401 is. am I smart?
Yeah index finds are good because they have lower fees and most actively managed funds don't beat their indexes anyway.
Lots of people are touting Roths and they are good but the problem is you can phase out of them pretty easily especially if you are married and both you and your spouse have good jobs.
most of my fiancées income is going toward building a pool full of gold coins for me to swim in like Scrooge McDuck, but after that what should I invest her income in?
Post by: kostakio on April 16, 2013, 08:10:11 PM
are index funds good? that's what my 401 is. am I smart?
Yeah index finds are good because they have lower fees and most actively managed funds don't beat their indexes anyway.
Lots of people are touting Roths and they are good but the problem is you can phase out of them pretty easily especially if you are married and both you and your spouse have good jobs.
most of my fiancées income is going toward building a pool full of gold coins for me to swim in like Scrooge McDuck, but after that what should I invest her income in?
Well the good news is gold is tanking lately and is well off it's highs so you're going to save some money on that pool. Once you get that built id probably stuck with the index funds.
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 16, 2013, 09:04:37 PM
Might move to Canada...
Post by: sys on April 16, 2013, 09:39:46 PM
Our company's 401k is through Vanguard so we have about 20 different Vanguard funds to choose from as well as all their target retirement funds. It's pretty baller. We also have a Roth 401k option. 100% match to 6%.
pretty nice. i can't complain about my 401k, except that the self-invest options suck ass.
Post by: sys on April 16, 2013, 09:47:49 PM
Post by: Dugout DickStone on April 16, 2013, 09:53:58 PM
Post by: Pete on April 16, 2013, 09:57:09 PM
also, someone rename this thread as personal finance for recent grads and start an investment thread. in that thread, someone explain bonds to me. not like i'm a six year old, like i'm really smart.
Bonds, or bond funds? Very different.
Lot of people who just buy bonds look at "par" values and rates of return and that stuff, but that's missing the point.
Bond fund mangers focus on what they call "credit tear downs." They focus all of their energy on trying to figure out if a given debtor can pay their bills. Their goal is to find firms who are regarded as credit risks by the general public, but who actually have the cash/assets to pay their bills and service their debt.
So, if you want to really understand bonds, you need to under stand balance sheets and credit tear downs....just like the bond fund guys do.
Post by: Pete on April 16, 2013, 09:59:14 PM
My advisor has averaged close to 10% for 3 years, is this a ponzi?
Two years ago, maybe....now, not unlikely. Cash out, and buy an S&P index fund. Pay super low (next to none) fees, and "match" the market every year. Retire happy and play botche ball with me and drink little old man beers.
Post by: scottwildcat on April 16, 2013, 10:01:14 PM
My advisor has averaged close to 10% for 3 years, is this a ponzi?
Two years ago, maybe....now, not unlikely. Cash out, and buy an S&P index fund. Pay super low (next to none) fees, and "match" the market every year. Retire happy and play botche ball with me and drink little old man beers.
Pete gets it.
Post by: GoodForAnother on April 16, 2013, 10:04:45 PM
Post by: Dugout DickStone on April 16, 2013, 10:05:40 PM
My advisor has averaged close to 10% for 3 years, is this a ponzi?
Two years ago, maybe....now, not unlikely. Cash out, and buy an S&P index fund. Pay super low (next to none) fees, and "match" the market every year. Retire happy and play botche ball with me and drink little old man beers.
New question, how do I maximize my safe harbor match?
Post by: sys on April 16, 2013, 10:08:04 PM
also, someone rename this thread as personal finance for recent grads and start an investment thread. in that thread, someone explain bonds to me. not like i'm a six year old, like i'm really smart.
Bonds, or bond funds? Very different.
Lot of people who just buy bonds look at "par" values and rates of return and that stuff, but that's missing the point.
Bond fund mangers focus on what they call "credit tear downs." They focus all of their energy on trying to figure out if a given debtor can pay their bills. Their goal is to find firms who are regarded as credit risks by the general public, but who actually have the cash/assets to pay their bills and service their debt.
So, if you want to really understand bonds, you need to under stand balance sheets and credit tear downs....just like the bond fund guys do.
bond funds. i'm pretty overconfident, but not so much that i'm going to invest in distressed credit by myself.
Post by: Dugout DickStone on April 16, 2013, 10:14:54 PM
Post by: Pete on April 16, 2013, 10:17:30 PM
My advisor has averaged close to 10% for 3 years, is this a ponzi?
Two years ago, maybe....now, not unlikely. Cash out, and buy an S&P index fund. Pay super low (next to none) fees, and "match" the market every year. Retire happy and play botche ball with me and drink little old man beers.
New question, how do I maximize my safe harbor match?
I can't help you on that one.
However, to reiterate my belief in index funds, the smartest guy I have ever met told me that the worst thing that his finance/accounting people could do was to try and make him richer...instead just match the market at super low fees. He said he'll focus on getting rich on doing what he knows how to do (focusing on his occupation).
A mutual friend of LSOC and I who now owns a private equity fund was once a HUGE disciple of John Bogle, founder of Vangaurd who wrote "Truth about Mutual Funds." http://www.amazon.com/Bogle-Mutual-Funds-Perspectives-Intelligent/dp/0440506824
This friend was ADAMANT that the best way to realize a healthy return was index funds..........
......but then, he decided to create his own fund. He joined the other side....and he now reaps the rewards.
He interviewed for a Wall Street analyst job once, for an equity fund, and the portfolio manger told him that he decided to be a fund manger because he couldn't sing (couldn't be a rock star) and wasn't an athlete (couldn't play pro ball), so managing funds was the next most profitable gig.
Post by: Pete on April 16, 2013, 10:21:06 PM
also, someone rename this thread as personal finance for recent grads and start an investment thread. in that thread, someone explain bonds to me. not like i'm a six year old, like i'm really smart.
Bonds, or bond funds? Very different.
Lot of people who just buy bonds look at "par" values and rates of return and that stuff, but that's missing the point.
Bond fund mangers focus on what they call "credit tear downs." They focus all of their energy on trying to figure out if a given debtor can pay their bills. Their goal is to find firms who are regarded as credit risks by the general public, but who actually have the cash/assets to pay their bills and service their debt.
So, if you want to really understand bonds, you need to under stand balance sheets and credit tear downs....just like the bond fund guys do.
bond funds. i'm pretty overconfident, but not so much that i'm going to invest in distressed credit by myself.
Good.
Here is the catch. You need to rule out the cowboys. Most of them are cowboys. They all want to be the "smart" one who is the leader in finding the gems. I worked for a mutual fund company for a time, in corporate accounting, so we saw all the blood and guts of what happened when those guys mumped up.
eff that.
Find the fund mangers who have the most consistent returns.
Post by: sys on April 16, 2013, 10:33:36 PM
Find the fund mangers who have the most consistent returns.
i need more basic than that. like why/when would i want to put money in bonds instead of stocks? why are returns so variable if the underlying securities return fixed %s? i just don't understand the whole market.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 16, 2013, 10:39:30 PM
Post by: wetwillie on April 16, 2013, 10:40:03 PM
I've always been told that bond prices rise when interest rates fall.
So if interest rates are at all time lows....
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 16, 2013, 10:41:41 PM
I've always been told that bond prices rise when interest rates fall.
So if interest rates are at all time lows....
Yeah, seems like a bad investment, if true.
Post by: michigancat on April 16, 2013, 10:46:06 PM
my 401 is in a vanguard target fund, vfifx. it's done really well for me, especially over the last year (13.44%).
I think my Roth is on the same fund, but i literally had no idea how it was performing until you posted that. I mean, I knew it was growing, but i had no idea on the percentage.
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 16, 2013, 10:49:19 PM
Post by: kostakio on April 16, 2013, 10:51:47 PM
Find the fund mangers who have the most consistent returns.
i need more basic than that. like why/when would i want to put money in bonds instead of stocks? why are returns so variable if the underlying securities return fixed %s? i just don't understand the whole market.
Several things can impact the price of bonds but mostly they flucuate with the movement of interest rates and with the credit ratings of the companies that issued them. A simplified rule of thumb is you want to be in bonds when interest rates are higher and in stocks when they are lower. Bonds move the opposite direction of interest rates so now really isn't a good time to be in them because there is pretty much only one way for rates to move and that is up. When that happens bond values will fall and already have started to in anticipation of this. Low interest rate environments are generally good for stocks because the cost of capital is low and margins tend to be high.
Post by: EMAWmeister on April 16, 2013, 10:52:32 PM
Find the fund mangers who have the most consistent returns.
i need more basic than that. like why/when would i want to put money in bonds instead of stocks?
The nutshell answer is that investing in debt is safer than investing in equity. Worst case scenario, you recoup some of your original investment. Best case scenario you get a fairly low % of steady growth over the life of the bond.
Post by: sys on April 16, 2013, 11:07:23 PM
A simplified rule of thumb is you want to be in bonds when interest rates are higher and in stocks when they are lower.
i get that, but i think it is overly simplified. some guys seem to make money (in bonds) in all markets.
Post by: Pete on April 17, 2013, 06:57:06 AM
A simplified rule of thumb is you want to be in bonds when interest rates are higher and in stocks when they are lower.
i get that, but i think it is overly simplified. some guys seem to make money (in bonds) in all markets.
Again, it's all about the credit worthiness of the debtor. They make money in all markets only when they can pay their bills. Most bonds are a fixed percentage for the life of the bond, so you are guaranteed that return as long as the debtor doesn't go bankrupt.
If you don't need your money for quite a while, I wouldn't invest in bonds.
Look at the historical returns. Large cap equities are at around 10% since WW2, and bonds are maybe 6% or lower, IIRC.
I know I sound like a broken record, but buy an S&P index fund and sleep well.
Post by: steve dave on April 17, 2013, 07:25:28 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 17, 2013, 07:26:15 AM
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 17, 2013, 08:19:32 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 17, 2013, 08:26:21 AM
For finance based calculations, what do you guys figure for rate of appreciation for residential real-estate in a upper middle class Johnson County neighborhood?
somewhere around 0%
Post by: ben ji on April 17, 2013, 08:28:21 AM
All this big boy investment talk has my head spinning. Ben ji, you're not doing anything too. Crazy with my money right?
Got a great opportunity now, you may need to double down on original investment. Will PM more deets.
Posted from my Fishing Yacht "Strung up and out" in The Cayman Islands
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 17, 2013, 08:40:49 AM
All this big boy investment talk has my head spinning. Ben ji, you're not doing anything too. Crazy with my money right?
Got a great opportunity now, you may need to double down on original investment. Will PM more deets.
Posted from my Fishing Yacht "Strung up and out" in The Cayman Islands
:excited:
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 17, 2013, 08:41:58 AM
Post by: Rams on April 17, 2013, 08:48:55 AM
it depends. the basic match is 100% up to 3% and 50% from 3% to 5%. but they could be using an enhanced matching formula. it all depends on how the plan was designed.My advisor has averaged close to 10% for 3 years, is this a ponzi?
Two years ago, maybe....now, not unlikely. Cash out, and buy an S&P index fund. Pay super low (next to none) fees, and "match" the market every year. Retire happy and play botche ball with me and drink little old man beers.
New question, how do I maximize my safe harbor match?
edit: go to your hr person and ask for a "summary plan description" of the 401k. the match rules are outlined in that in pretty plain language. or just ask your hr person how to max out your match.
Post by: CNS on April 17, 2013, 08:56:29 AM
my 401 is in a vanguard target fund, vfifx. it's done really well for me, especially over the last year (13.44%).
Everything has done really well over the last yr.
Post by: kostakio on April 17, 2013, 09:03:50 AM
A simplified rule of thumb is you want to be in bonds when interest rates are higher and in stocks when they are lower.
i get that, but i think it is overly simplified. some guys seem to make money (in bonds) in all markets.
yeah that goes back to knowing the credit risks. Bond ratings are very public and easy to obtain the guys that consistently outperform are the guys that have better information then the ratings bureaus. It can be done but not easily, so it's something I would stay away from worrying about.
Post by: kostakio on April 17, 2013, 09:10:31 AM
For finance based calculations, what do you guys figure for rate of appreciation for residential real-estate in a upper middle class Johnson County neighborhood?
somewhere around 0%
good answer it's nice if your home goes up in value but I don't think you ever want to be in a situation where you are expecting/counting on it.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on April 17, 2013, 09:13:00 AM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 17, 2013, 09:14:34 AM
For finance based calculations, what do you guys figure for rate of appreciation for residential real-estate in a upper middle class Johnson County neighborhood?
somewhere around 0%
good answer it's nice if your home goes up in value but I don't think you ever want to be in a situation where you are expecting/counting on it.
The biggest flaw with counting on home value increasing as an investment is that you need a place to live.
Post by: CNS on April 17, 2013, 09:22:08 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 17, 2013, 09:23:03 AM
Any finance guys deal with American Funds? My guy is trying to get me in them now.
because they pay him well. a good pro-tip is not to have "a guy".
Post by: CNS on April 17, 2013, 09:23:46 AM
Any finance guys deal with American Funds? My guy is trying to get me in them now.
because they pay him well
Yeah, they seem to have a pretty high expense ratio. Like, really high.
Post by: steve dave on April 17, 2013, 09:25:57 AM
Any finance guys deal with American Funds? My guy is trying to get me in them now.
because they pay him well
Yeah, they seem to have a pretty high expense ratio. Like, really high.
I edited my post above but in almost every situation it's best not to have "a guy" because of this.
Post by: ben ji on April 17, 2013, 09:26:53 AM
Any finance guys deal with American Funds? My guy is trying to get me in them now.
because they pay him well
Yeah, they seem to have a pretty high expense ratio. Like, really high.
My 401k is through american funds and the expense ratio's are all very high. I would assume "Having a guy" would make that even higher.
Post by: steve dave on April 17, 2013, 09:27:02 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 17, 2013, 09:28:33 AM
Any finance guys deal with American Funds? My guy is trying to get me in them now.
because they pay him well
Yeah, they seem to have a pretty high expense ratio. Like, really high.
My 401k is through american funds and the expense ratio's are all very high. I would assume "Having a guy" would make that even higher.
no, it would be the same...unless you're paying him for some reason. in almost all instances the guy just gets a kickback for selling whatever product.
Post by: steve dave on April 17, 2013, 09:30:42 AM
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on April 17, 2013, 09:32:29 AM
that's why "the guy" is a stupid waste of time and detrimental to your investments in almost every situation. he has a clear conflict of interest because he gets a larger kickback from some products than others. because of this he will want you to purchase those products.
So people shouldn't use financial advisors?
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 17, 2013, 09:38:32 AM
never buy whole life
Oh man. Had a old friend hounding me on this stuff for months. Had to be blunt.
Post by: slobber on April 17, 2013, 09:38:35 AM
Agree. Disagree.Any finance guys deal with American Funds? My guy is trying to get me in them now.
because they pay him well. a good pro-tip is not to have "a guy".
If you have an idiot guy, then I'd agree. I'd just make certain I knew why my guy was wanting me to do what he wants me to do. Always make certain you know how much money your guys is making. If you are paying him, you need to know how much you are paying him. How do you find out? Ask him. See how that compares to what it costs to invest on your own. If your guy doesn't bring anything more to the table than, "Hey, I think you should invest in American Funds," then you need a different guy.
Now, for several of you on here, I will agree that it is fine to go it alone, but you still need to make certain you know what your long term goals are and you have to stick to your plan.
Further advice, when crap looks the worst, invest more and if your plan is good and if your cheese has not moved drastically, invest in the same crap. Lots of dumbasses in my office moved their money to safety in Jan-Mar 2009. Some of them just moved it back into growth investments over the last year. They lost a lot of opportunity.
Post by: steve dave on April 17, 2013, 09:39:24 AM
that's why "the guy" is a stupid waste of time and detrimental to your investments in almost every situation. he has a clear conflict of interest because he gets a larger kickback from some products than others. because of this he will want you to purchase those products.
So people shouldn't use financial advisors?
sometimes they should. there are definitely good ones out there. the problem is that no matter how good they are their profession has built in conflicts of interest. plus, 98% of the population would do better just contributing to their 401(k), starting an IRA and investing in broad index funds with anything they have left over.
Post by: steve dave on April 17, 2013, 09:40:14 AM
never buy whole life
Oh man. Had a old friend hounding me on this stuff for months. Had to be blunt.
because it pays him well. it's one of the worst "investments" you can make.
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 17, 2013, 09:43:33 AM
never buy whole life
Oh man. Had a old friend hounding me on this stuff for months. Had to be blunt.
because it pays him well. it's one of the worst "investments" you can make.
He was new to it (taking over for an old guy), trying to build his own base. I doubt he's doing that well with it.
Post by: Rams on April 17, 2013, 09:44:54 AM
garbage. stay away. they used to be great (a long time ago) but they're sort of a victim of their own success because they're just so big. also their managers are crap now. double whammy. sd is right though, lots of shitty "advisors" still push them because they give lots of perks and kickbacks
re: having an advisor
never pay a commission (A share or B share mutual funds)...ever. if you don't have enough money to meet the minimum for a wrap fee account, do it yourself and buy a couple of basic index etfs in a fidelity/etrade/schwab account. if you really don't feel comfortable doing it yourself, demand C share mutual funds and never pay over 1% in a wrap fee account. ask lots of questions and make sure you understand exactly why you own each and every investment.
re: whole life
yes. in most situations whole life is a waste of money (and pays the guy selling it to you a huge commission). it's a pretty good tool for estate planning and very high income earners, but in most cases you should just buy term.
Post by: steve dave on April 17, 2013, 09:47:00 AM
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 17, 2013, 09:47:27 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 17, 2013, 09:48:21 AM
FYI, E*Trade is EMAW.
ameritrade owns the cubs
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on April 17, 2013, 09:52:39 AM
pro-tip: home business tax shelter. everyone should have one.
like self proprietor or llc? what would my benefits be? should i make one? why?
Post by: Rams on April 17, 2013, 09:53:24 AM
pro-tip: home business tax shelter. everyone should have one.that's pretty aggressive. just make sure it's at least mostly legit. you're begging for an audit.
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 17, 2013, 09:57:03 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 17, 2013, 09:59:03 AM
pro-tip: home business tax shelter. everyone should have one.that's pretty aggressive. just make sure it's at least mostly legit. you're begging for an audit.
I didn't say fake home business.
Post by: Rams on April 17, 2013, 10:00:23 AM
What about old home in LLC being rented? LLC would likely also include some farm ground.holy crap yes. any rentals should be in an llc immediately. like yesterday. single member llc's are really easy to set up yourself in kansas. and yeah you can lump in the farm ground too.
Post by: Rams on April 17, 2013, 10:03:34 AM
you just weren't very clear. not everyone has the circumstances to create a home business but a lot of people do so just to get the tax benefits. it's an audit red flag and you should just be careful. that's all I was saying.pro-tip: home business tax shelter. everyone should have one.that's pretty aggressive. just make sure it's at least mostly legit. you're begging for an audit.
I didn't say fake home business.
Post by: michigancat on April 17, 2013, 10:03:59 AM
also, someone rename this thread as personal finance for recent grads and start an investment thread.
I think the title is appropriate. Most people that are like, "Hey, I think I'd like to invest some money", aren't aware of 401k's or Roth IRA's.
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 17, 2013, 10:04:20 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 17, 2013, 10:06:29 AM
you just weren't very clear. not everyone has the circumstances to create a home business but a lot of people do so just to get the tax benefits. it's an audit red flag and you should just be careful. that's all I was saying.pro-tip: home business tax shelter. everyone should have one.that's pretty aggressive. just make sure it's at least mostly legit. you're begging for an audit.
I didn't say fake home business.
:rolleyes:
almost everyone does something on the side or could potentially do something on the side. people should realize that the benefits of this go well beyond whatever income you think you can generate.
Post by: puniraptor on April 17, 2013, 10:06:52 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 17, 2013, 10:08:17 AM
is there a way to compare roth IRA's from different providers to see which is the best? are all roths ira's basically the same and the differences in providers just customer service stuff and available funds?
rules are set by the gov. there isn't a lot of difference between the major players.
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 17, 2013, 10:08:18 AM
What about old home in LLC being rented? LLC would likely also include some farm ground.holy crap yes. any rentals should be in an llc immediately. like yesterday. single member llc's are really easy to set up yourself in kansas. and yeah you can lump in the farm ground too.
Some family currently does some rentals, buying/fixing up/flipping homes in the winter when farming is slow (no cattle). Been pretty successful at it for a few years now. Thinking about doing something similar, or throwing my current house into his LLC and bringing some additional stuff in trade for interest in farm ground. I don't really want to have to do the "administration" part of renting a house but he's happy to do that for me.
Post by: michigancat on April 17, 2013, 10:10:05 AM
is there a way to compare roth IRA's from different providers to see which is the best? are all roths ira's basically the same and the differences in providers just customer service stuff and available funds?
Go with Vanguard because they have the lowest fees. You can look around, but I'm guessing Vanguard will always win out.
Post by: sys on April 17, 2013, 10:12:26 AM
If you don't need your money for quite a while, I wouldn't invest in bonds.
Look at the historical returns. Large cap equities are at around 10% since WW2, and bonds are maybe 6% or lower, IIRC.
I know I sound like a broken record, but buy an S&P index fund and sleep well.
hmm. i still think it's more complicated than that. i mean, these fund managers aren't always holding to maturity are they? and even if they are, if you're in the bond fund for a short to moderate time frame, you can't expect the fund price to appreciate at the same rate as the returns of the bonds in the fund.
but, i'll take your advice to continue ignoring bonds. at least for now. that's easier for me anyways.
not just going to dump everything in a domestic index though. too boring. stock/sector picking is fun to me.
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 17, 2013, 10:13:10 AM
is there a way to compare roth IRA's from different providers to see which is the best? are all roths ira's basically the same and the differences in providers just customer service stuff and available funds?
Go with Vanguard because they have the lowest fees. You can look around, but I'm guessing Vanguard will always win out.
What's the interface like? Like I have E*trade and set up another in Scottrade for lower fees but that interface sucks and I hate it.
Post by: slobber on April 17, 2013, 10:15:11 AM
Don't forget the keys to the winery!is there a way to compare roth IRA's from different providers to see which is the best? are all roths ira's basically the same and the differences in providers just customer service stuff and available funds?
Go with Vanguard because they have the lowest fees. You can look around, but I'm guessing Vanguard will always win out.
Post by: michigancat on April 17, 2013, 10:15:27 AM
is there a way to compare roth IRA's from different providers to see which is the best? are all roths ira's basically the same and the differences in providers just customer service stuff and available funds?
Go with Vanguard because they have the lowest fees. You can look around, but I'm guessing Vanguard will always win out.
What's the interface like? Like I have E*trade and set up another in Scottrade for lower fees but that interface sucks and I hate it.
I really don't know. I set up an automatic investment and never touch it. You really probably shouldn't know what it's like unless you are increasing your automatic investment.
Post by: GoodForAnother on April 17, 2013, 10:18:22 AM
is there a way to compare roth IRA's from different providers to see which is the best? are all roths ira's basically the same and the differences in providers just customer service stuff and available funds?
Go with Vanguard because they have the lowest fees. You can look around, but I'm guessing Vanguard will always win out.
What's the interface like? Like I have E*trade and set up another in Scottrade for lower fees but that interface sucks and I hate it.
vanguard has a great website.
Post by: slobber on April 17, 2013, 10:21:12 AM
:thumbsup:Some pretty good financial tools on that site.is there a way to compare roth IRA's from different providers to see which is the best? are all roths ira's basically the same and the differences in providers just customer service stuff and available funds?
Go with Vanguard because they have the lowest fees. You can look around, but I'm guessing Vanguard will always win out.
What's the interface like? Like I have E*trade and set up another in Scottrade for lower fees but that interface sucks and I hate it.
vanguard has a great website.
Post by: ben ji on April 17, 2013, 10:25:58 AM
ben ji this is why we need to have meetings with your puppy. i have no idea what these dorks are talking about
I only have a rudimentary understanding of what they are saying. You really dont need to worry about bonds until you get closer to retirement age unless you are a very active investor.
You are young, put your money into growth/index funds and you will have 20+ years to figure out what they are talking about.
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on April 17, 2013, 10:31:47 AM
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 17, 2013, 10:32:52 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 17, 2013, 10:35:25 AM
For the index funders, do you guys sell off on like 180 day crossovers or just ride everything out?
do you watch cramer or some stupid crap?
Post by: michigancat on April 17, 2013, 10:43:33 AM
For the index funders, do you guys sell off on like 180 day crossovers or just ride everything out?
do you watch cramer or some stupid crap?
"Hey, I'm going to post in an investment thread for advice and just completely ignore every rough ridin' investment advice previously posted".
Post by: GCJayhawker on April 17, 2013, 10:47:46 AM
For the index funders, do you guys sell off on like 180 day crossovers or just ride everything out?
do you watch cramer or some stupid crap?
"Hey, I'm going to post in an investment thread for advice and just completely ignore every rough ridin' investment advice previously posted".
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Post by: Daddy Claxton on April 17, 2013, 10:50:21 AM
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 17, 2013, 10:51:30 AM
ben ji this is why we need to have meetings with your puppy. i have no idea what these dorks are talking about
I only have a rudimentary understanding of what they are saying. You really dont need to worry about bonds until you get closer to retirement age unless you are a very active investor.
You are young, put your money into growth/index funds and you will have 20+ years to figure out what they are talking about.
k cool thx. will post back in this thread when im like 50. hopefully youre not retired from being my personal finance director by then :crossfingers:
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 17, 2013, 10:51:36 AM
For the index funders, do you guys sell off on like 180 day crossovers or just ride everything out?
do you watch cramer or some stupid crap?
No idea who cramer is.
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on April 17, 2013, 11:01:56 AM
For the index funders, do you guys sell off on like 180 day crossovers or just ride everything out?
do you watch cramer or some stupid crap?
No idea who cramer is.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcuniversalstore.com%2Fimg%2Fproduct%2Fresized%2F298%2F00011482-022298_catl_600.jpg%3Fk%3Ddff96bbd%26amp%3Bpid%3D11482%26amp%3Bs%3Dcatl%26amp%3Bsn%3Dnbcuniversalstore&hash=27e84e1c1802e559886db0dfe58c3502052dca4e)
Watch TV, Get Rich!
Post by: GCJayhawker on April 17, 2013, 11:02:23 AM
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 17, 2013, 11:04:09 AM
Post by: The Whale on April 17, 2013, 11:05:29 AM
never buy whole life
If you have a spouse or kids, get a long term life policy while still young and healthy.*
* On The Whale's list of things to do for the year -- I've been going year to year with employer offered policy. It's eventually going to get expensive :frown:
Post by: michigancat on April 17, 2013, 11:10:22 AM
When looking at index funds what is a good range for the expense ratio?
Vanguard should be the benchmark. They're at like 0.17%. I don't think anyone beats that and don't know why you would go anywhere else unless you had absolutely no choice.
Post by: steve dave on April 17, 2013, 11:26:05 AM
Anyway, the let it ride may be the easiest but it's not the best, FWIW. Even a dolt could get a much better return with a small incremental time increase.
sounds like you've got it all figured out. probably all your other dumbfuckery in this thread are the outliers.
Post by: mocat on April 17, 2013, 11:36:50 AM
Post by: EMAWmeister on April 17, 2013, 11:38:20 AM
Why do you guys keep bringing the fangs out in this thread? Yikes. This is the trust tree you guys. This is a safe place.
Because every man alive tries to be Gordan Gekko when talking about investments.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fthumb%2F4%2F40%2FGordon_Gekko.jpg%2F220px-Gordon_Gekko.jpg&hash=66db956043f1d93b1a1a8cb2a43306741426d1a6)
Post by: steve dave on April 17, 2013, 11:42:23 AM
Why do you guys keep bringing the fangs out in this thread? Yikes. This is the trust tree you guys. This is a safe place.
I don't want people that are looking for good advice to come here and get shitty advice.
Post by: Rams on April 17, 2013, 11:48:21 AM
Why do you guys keep bringing the fangs out in this thread? Yikes. This is the trust tree you guys. This is a safe place.
-if you are smarter than everyone... make sure they know it...but make sure they don't know you are making sure they know it.sd seems really insecure about the first part of that quote, really awesome at the second part, and just really rough ridin' terrible at the third part. :dunno:
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 17, 2013, 12:02:11 PM
Why do you guys keep bringing the fangs out in this thread? Yikes. This is the trust tree you guys. This is a safe place.
I don't want people that are looking for good advice to come here and get shitty advice.
Congrats on getting hammered in 2008/9 then. :thumbs:
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 17, 2013, 01:03:18 PM
Planning on moving soon, so that hampers things a bit. Paying 6.7% on a 10-yr term, :barf:.Let's talk student loans, and not those pud undergrad ones with 1.9% interest. I am talking grown ass man grad school student loans with the terrible interest rates. Is there any way to consolidate with a better rate or term?
What rate are you paying? Maybe you could refinance your house and use that money to pay off the student loans. It really kind of depends on your situation.
I would still take the time to talk to somebody at your bank. It is very possible that they would allow you to refinance and then just carry your mortgage over to the new property, as long as you buy a home that is worth at least as much as your current dwelling. I can't really give good advice without knowing all the details of your debt, but your bank absolutely can.
Post by: Pete on April 17, 2013, 01:10:39 PM
When looking at index funds what is a good range for the expense ratio?
Vanguard should be the benchmark. They're at like 0.17%. I don't think anyone beats that and don't know why you would go anywhere else unless you had absolutely no choice.
Totally agree. Never heard of anyone beating Vanguard.
Post by: ben ji on April 17, 2013, 01:13:09 PM
When looking at index funds what is a good range for the expense ratio?
Vanguard should be the benchmark. They're at like 0.17%. I don't think anyone beats that and don't know why you would go anywhere else unless you had absolutely no choice.
Totally agree. Never heard of anyone beating Vanguard.
I just checked fidelity and they have some at .07...Minimum investment of 10k though.
Post by: michigancat on April 17, 2013, 01:13:27 PM
Why do you guys keep bringing the fangs out in this thread? Yikes. This is the trust tree you guys. This is a safe place.
I don't want people that are looking for good advice to come here and get shitty advice.
Congrats on getting hammered in 2008/9 then. :thumbs:
do you understand the concept of long term investing? Do you want to?
Post by: steve dave on April 17, 2013, 01:16:25 PM
When looking at index funds what is a good range for the expense ratio?
Vanguard should be the benchmark. They're at like 0.17%. I don't think anyone beats that and don't know why you would go anywhere else unless you had absolutely no choice.
Totally agree. Never heard of anyone beating Vanguard.
I just checked fidelity and they have some at .07...Minimum investment of 10k though.
which funds?
Post by: Pete on April 17, 2013, 01:18:29 PM
When looking at index funds what is a good range for the expense ratio?
Vanguard should be the benchmark. They're at like 0.17%. I don't think anyone beats that and don't know why you would go anywhere else unless you had absolutely no choice.
Totally agree. Never heard of anyone beating Vanguard.
I just checked fidelity and they have some at .07...Minimum investment of 10k though.
Ya, I think Vangaurd may be a minimum of $2K, don't recall. Don't sweat it. Just open an E-Trade account and select an index fund as your investment. You'll be doing better than the vast majority of investors just by doing that. You can make it a Roth or a traditional IRA, or whatever you want.
Half the battle is won as soon as you chose an index fund, don't beat yourself up on the difference between the providers.
Post by: ben ji on April 17, 2013, 01:18:46 PM
When looking at index funds what is a good range for the expense ratio?
Vanguard should be the benchmark. They're at like 0.17%. I don't think anyone beats that and don't know why you would go anywhere else unless you had absolutely no choice.
Totally agree. Never heard of anyone beating Vanguard.
I just checked fidelity and they have some at .07...Minimum investment of 10k though.
which funds?
Spartan® Extended Market Index Fund - Fidelity Advantage Class
Morningstar Category Mid-Cap Blend
Fund Inception 11/5/1997
NAV
4/16/2013 $43.94
Exp Ratio (Gross)
5/4/2012 0.07%
($0.70 per $1000)
Exp Ratio (Net)
5/4/2012 0.07%
($0.70 per $1000)
Redemption Fee 0.75%
Redemption Period 90 days
Minimum to Invest $10,000.00
($10,000.00 for IRA)
Turnover Rate
8/31/2012 10%
Net Assets ($M)
3/31/2013 $7,721.59
12 Month Low-High
3/31/2013 $35.74 - $45.15
Chart Fund Price (NAV)
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 17, 2013, 01:19:17 PM
Why do you guys keep bringing the fangs out in this thread? Yikes. This is the trust tree you guys. This is a safe place.
I don't want people that are looking for good advice to come here and get shitty advice.
Congrats on getting hammered in 2008/9 then. :thumbs:
do you understand the concept of long term investing? Do you want to?
I'm just saying, index is for sure the lazy way to do it. It certainly isn't the only way, nor is it the best way. Someone who bought one share of S&P 500 "index fund" or whatever and held till today would be up 44%. Follow some very basic rules and with very little effort (4 trades in 9 years) the same person would be up 102%. It's still long term, it's still lazy, however it's much more effective.
Post by: Kat Kid on April 17, 2013, 01:20:33 PM
Post by: michigancat on April 17, 2013, 01:24:09 PM
Why do you guys keep bringing the fangs out in this thread? Yikes. This is the trust tree you guys. This is a safe place.
I don't want people that are looking for good advice to come here and get shitty advice.
Congrats on getting hammered in 2008/9 then. :thumbs:
do you understand the concept of long term investing? Do you want to?
I'm just saying, index is for sure the lazy way to do it. It certainly isn't the only way, nor is it the best way. Someone who bought one share of S&P 500 "index fund" or whatever and held till today would be up 44%. Follow some very basic rules and with very little effort (4 trades in 9 years) the same person would be up 102%. It's still long term, it's still lazy, however it's much more effective.
link?
Post by: Kat Kid on April 17, 2013, 01:26:34 PM
Post by: ben ji on April 17, 2013, 01:27:10 PM
Redemption fee: .75% :sdeek:
Didnt even see that. They do have others that are that low and dont show any redemption fee.
Spartan® 500 Index Fund - Fidelity Advantage Class
Morningstar Category Large Blend
Fund Inception 2/17/1988
NAV
4/16/2013 $55.80
Exp Ratio (Gross)
1/1/2013 0.07%
($0.70 per $1000)
Exp Ratio (Net)
1/1/2013 0.05%
($0.50 per $1000)
Exp Cap (Dated) 5
1/1/2013 0.05%
($0.50 per $1000)
Minimum to Invest $10,000.00
($10,000.00 for IRA)
Turnover Rate
8/31/2012 3%
Net Assets ($M)
3/31/2013 $30,330.00
12 Month Low-High
3/31/2013 $45.46 - $55.84
Chart Fund Price (NAV)
Post by: Kat Kid on April 17, 2013, 01:28:50 PM
I just posted for vanguard the same rate. It has to do with the amount you throw down.
emo-
even if you post a link, it is hindsight. Timing the market for small time investors is probably not worth it just with fees attached to trades.
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 17, 2013, 01:31:53 PM
Basic: if you're holding your index fund, sell on (for this example) 180DMA crossver. Riskier folks will also short at this time. Cover on next 180DMA crossover. Could buy back here, or if worried about getting shaken out then wait for 180DMA to turn positive and then buy. Simple.
Follow those rules all the way back to before the Great Depression and you'll have like a bazillion more bitcoins than just buying and holding. Plenty of room to make it waaaay more complicated if you're into that kind of stuff (used to be, not anymore).
Post by: steve dave on April 17, 2013, 01:33:22 PM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 17, 2013, 01:35:53 PM
Why do you guys keep bringing the fangs out in this thread? Yikes. This is the trust tree you guys. This is a safe place.
I don't want people that are looking for good advice to come here and get shitty advice.
Congrats on getting hammered in 2008/9 then. :thumbs:
do you understand the concept of long term investing? Do you want to?
I'm just saying, index is for sure the lazy way to do it. It certainly isn't the only way, nor is it the best way. Someone who bought one share of S&P 500 "index fund" or whatever and held till today would be up 44%. Follow some very basic rules and with very little effort (4 trades in 9 years) the same person would be up 102%. It's still long term, it's still lazy, however it's much more effective.
Earning 7% on index funds every year would put you up about 84% over a 9 year time frame, without as much risk as trying to time the market.
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 17, 2013, 01:44:47 PM
Why do you guys keep bringing the fangs out in this thread? Yikes. This is the trust tree you guys. This is a safe place.
I don't want people that are looking for good advice to come here and get shitty advice.
Congrats on getting hammered in 2008/9 then. :thumbs:
do you understand the concept of long term investing? Do you want to?
I'm just saying, index is for sure the lazy way to do it. It certainly isn't the only way, nor is it the best way. Someone who bought one share of S&P 500 "index fund" or whatever and held till today would be up 44%. Follow some very basic rules and with very little effort (4 trades in 9 years) the same person would be up 102%. It's still long term, it's still lazy, however it's much more effective.
Earning 7% on index funds every year would put you up about 84% over a 9 year time frame, without as much risk as trying to time the market.
Okay, do what you want obviously. But this isn't timing anything. You're not guessing about bottoms or tops (I mean I guess it could get to that but you don't have to if you don't want to). You're just validating market trends with simple indicators. If anything at our age (assume you're not near retirement) we can assume some elevated risk, although I disagree it's riskier. I personally think it's riskier to hold. Anyway, all we have to go off of is historical data. It can't be refuted that buying and holding isn't the best way to do it, although I agree it's the easiest.
Post by: sys on April 17, 2013, 06:21:42 PM
Post by: michigancat on April 17, 2013, 06:41:50 PM
it's pretty funny that people that think they're smart are attacking emo for daring to introduce the concept of outperforming the mean. you people sound brainwashed.
I'll admit that I looked into his "system" a little more and it's more promising than I expected. It would definitely be interesting with a lump sum investment. I don't think it would be as simple or easy to manage as he implies, though.
Not sure how it would compare to dollar cost averaging, either.
Post by: Pete on April 17, 2013, 07:03:56 PM
I do not enjoy investing anymore, I merely do it for security reasons.
I want to not rough ridin' have to think/worry about it. Ask me about this 15 years ago and you'd get a different answer.
To each his own.
Post by: Rams on April 17, 2013, 07:28:16 PM
link? everything I've ever learned has taught me that market timing is a fool's game, but I'm always open to new ideas.it's pretty funny that people that think they're smart are attacking emo for daring to introduce the concept of outperforming the mean. you people sound brainwashed.
I'll admit that I looked into his "system" a little more and it's more promising than I expected. It would definitely be interesting with a lump sum investment. I don't think it would be as simple or easy to manage as he implies, though.
Not sure how it would compare to dollar cost averaging, either.
Post by: steve dave on April 17, 2013, 07:35:40 PM
Post by: Rams on April 17, 2013, 07:47:10 PM
Market timing works well in hindsightright. that's always been my thought. but if there's something that's consistently worked over the last 60 or so years you can't really just dismiss it. I'm clearly :dubious: but I wouldn't mind looking at the data.
Post by: Kat Kid on April 17, 2013, 07:47:20 PM
it's pretty funny that people that think they're smart are attacking emo for daring to introduce the concept of outperforming the mean. you people sound brainwashed.
the concepts he is talking about are 1) more risky than he is selling them as 2) not really compatible with what 90% of the people seeking advice in this thread have for their situation. I mean I would guess that a decent percent are not to $10,000 in their retirement accounts yet. The fees for a brokerage account and each trade will quickly eat in to the profits that they may or may not realize through emo's strategy. Sure we are being a little simplistic, but read the thread title, know the intended audience and provide advice accordingly. I mean there are probably lots of more profitable investments than index funds, but I don't really think there are better options for someone that does not have a ton of capital, does not have a ton of expertise and does not have a ton of time.
Post by: Rams on April 17, 2013, 07:57:53 PM
this is a really good point as well.it's pretty funny that people that think they're smart are attacking emo for daring to introduce the concept of outperforming the mean. you people sound brainwashed.
the concepts he is talking about are 1) more risky than he is selling them as 2) not really compatible with what 90% of the people seeking advice in this thread have for their situation. I mean I would guess that a decent percent are not to $10,000 in their retirement accounts yet. The fees for a brokerage account and each trade will quickly eat in to the profits that they may or may not realize through emo's strategy. Sure we are being a little simplistic, but read the thread title, know the intended audience and provide advice accordingly. I mean there are probably lots of more profitable investments than index funds, but I don't really think there are better options for someone that does not have a ton of capital, does not have a ton of expertise and does not have a ton of time.
Post by: michigancat on April 17, 2013, 09:41:43 PM
link? everything I've ever learned has taught me that market timing is a fool's game, but I'm always open to new ideas.it's pretty funny that people that think they're smart are attacking emo for daring to introduce the concept of outperforming the mean. you people sound brainwashed.
I'll admit that I looked into his "system" a little more and it's more promising than I expected. It would definitely be interesting with a lump sum investment. I don't think it would be as simple or easy to manage as he implies, though.
Not sure how it would compare to dollar cost averaging, either.
http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27460
I haven't really looked at it in much detail. But there are some good points made in this thread.
Post by: Rams on April 17, 2013, 10:37:41 PM
well, it's certainly interesting, but I'm not sold. it's essentially a great limitation on huge downside risk, but also a great limitation on huge upside reward. in other words, it seems to be just an expensive (trading costs and taxes) way of being conservative...which is much more efficiently done with a well diversified portfolio. it really breaks down in extended bull markets (like the one we've been in for a while now). this article makes some interesting points re the theory of overcrowding in one strategy and also intervention by central banks.link? everything I've ever learned has taught me that market timing is a fool's game, but I'm always open to new ideas.it's pretty funny that people that think they're smart are attacking emo for daring to introduce the concept of outperforming the mean. you people sound brainwashed.
I'll admit that I looked into his "system" a little more and it's more promising than I expected. It would definitely be interesting with a lump sum investment. I don't think it would be as simple or easy to manage as he implies, though.
Not sure how it would compare to dollar cost averaging, either.
http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27460
I haven't really looked at it in much detail. But there are some good points made in this thread.
http://www.thereformedbroker.com/2012/12/27/mark-hanna-on-why-the-200-day-signal-is-broken/ (http://www.thereformedbroker.com/2012/12/27/mark-hanna-on-why-the-200-day-signal-is-broken/)
the one thing that would be interesting is to see if you could find a way to sort of contra-invest in this strategy by predicting massive inflows and outflows. really this is the problem with finding "tricks" or "schemes" to outperform an index...once somebody realizes they've found something that works, the speed of information rules it ineffective before you can really take advantage of it.
Post by: kim carnes on April 17, 2013, 10:41:32 PM
Post by: sys on April 17, 2013, 10:43:58 PM
it's just a question of logic. all of these various systems for timing the market rely on the idea that you can improve your overall return if you are able to predict with some degree of accuracy when the market is more likely to go up or down. whether the predictive variable is technical, fundamental, macro, seasonal, whatever, it doesn't matter. they are all derived from past market performance. that is to say that people come up with each and every one of these systems by looking at the past and pulling out some correlate or group of correlates that is associated with periods in which the market behaves as desired.
here is the important part. it is absolutely true that past performance is no guarantee of future performance. and it is possible, even likely, that some of the relationships that people claim to be predictive are spurious. however, these correlations are all based on the exact same data that all of you indexing acolytes are proclaiming as the path to sure 7% annual returns. it is absolutely logically inconsistent to profess confidence that future market returns will approximate those of the past while scoffing at correlations among market performance based on the same data.
Post by: ben ji on April 17, 2013, 10:47:39 PM
Post by: chum1 on April 17, 2013, 10:50:25 PM
Post by: kostakio on April 17, 2013, 11:23:13 PM
Why dont you nerds go start an Advanced Investing Thread and stop making new investors think it is all too complicated and they should just keep buying CD's.
I tend to agree the market timing/technical trading stuff is probably not a good topic in a thread that is titled "new to investing". You will be better off then 90 % of people if you start contributing to your 401k at a young age and stay the course using low cost index funds.
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 17, 2013, 11:45:15 PM
it's pretty funny that people that think they're smart are attacking emo for daring to introduce the concept of outperforming the mean. you people sound brainwashed.
the concepts he is talking about are 1) more risky than he is selling them as 2) not really compatible with what 90% of the people seeking advice in this thread have for their situation. I mean I would guess that a decent percent are not to $10,000 in their retirement accounts yet. The fees for a brokerage account and each trade will quickly eat in to the profits that they may or may not realize through emo's strategy. Sure we are being a little simplistic, but read the thread title, know the intended audience and provide advice accordingly. I mean there are probably lots of more profitable investments than index funds, but I don't really think there are better options for someone that does not have a ton of capital, does not have a ton of expertise and does not have a ton of time.
4 rough ridin' trades from 2004 to today. 4.
Post by: sys on April 18, 2013, 01:11:31 AM
When looking at index funds what is a good range for the expense ratio?
Vanguard should be the benchmark. They're at like 0.17%. I don't think anyone beats that and don't know why you would go anywhere else unless you had absolutely no choice.
schwab etf's are lower in cost that vanguard funds. etf's in general are lower than mutual funds. prolly doesn't matter if you're 401k investing. i know my 401k has crap for selection, i assume that's standard.
Post by: michigancat on April 18, 2013, 01:41:47 AM
look people, you're smart, you can figure this out. this is not specific to the method emo proposed which i know absolutely nothing about, just to not blindly indexing (not saying there is anything wrong with indexing. saying that it is stupid to attack someone for not indexing).
it's just a question of logic. all of these various systems for timing the market rely on the idea that you can improve your overall return if you are able to predict with some degree of accuracy when the market is more likely to go up or down. whether the predictive variable is technical, fundamental, macro, seasonal, whatever, it doesn't matter. they are all derived from past market performance. that is to say that people come up with each and every one of these systems by looking at the past and pulling out some correlate or group of correlates that is associated with periods in which the market behaves as desired.
here is the important part. it is absolutely true that past performance is no guarantee of future performance. and it is possible, even likely, that some of the relationships that people claim to be predictive are spurious. however, these correlations are all based on the exact same data that all of you indexing acolytes are proclaiming as the path to sure 7% annual returns. it is absolutely logically inconsistent to profess confidence that future market returns will approximate those of the past while scoffing at correlations among market performance based on the same data.
yeah. A shorter version of this post on bogleheads got me. I mean proponents of lazy investing do so based on past results, but quickly ignore or dismiss the past results of this particular system.
Post by: steve dave on April 18, 2013, 05:59:05 AM
Why dont you nerds go start an Advanced Investing Thread.
Considering merging a lot of this into the POS stock market thread that turned into that one dumbass touting penny stocks for the last two pages
Post by: Kat Kid on April 18, 2013, 06:45:32 AM
look people, you're smart, you can figure this out. this is not specific to the method emo proposed which i know absolutely nothing about, just to not blindly indexing (not saying there is anything wrong with indexing. saying that it is stupid to attack someone for not indexing).
it's just a question of logic. all of these various systems for timing the market rely on the idea that you can improve your overall return if you are able to predict with some degree of accuracy when the market is more likely to go up or down. whether the predictive variable is technical, fundamental, macro, seasonal, whatever, it doesn't matter. they are all derived from past market performance. that is to say that people come up with each and every one of these systems by looking at the past and pulling out some correlate or group of correlates that is associated with periods in which the market behaves as desired.
here is the important part. it is absolutely true that past performance is no guarantee of future performance. and it is possible, even likely, that some of the relationships that people claim to be predictive are spurious. however, these correlations are all based on the exact same data that all of you indexing acolytes are proclaiming as the path to sure 7% annual returns. it is absolutely logically inconsistent to profess confidence that future market returns will approximate those of the past while scoffing at correlations among market performance based on the same data.
Look, dumbass, there have been several people that made spurious claims "guaranteeing" an annual return. I never did that bullshit and simply said that making trades in a brokerage account when you have less than $10,000 (which many "new" investors would be starting with) is idiotic. I listed the reasons. Look at the thread title. Your situation seems to be significantly different, you also are a pretty smart guy, but don't resort to making arguments that dismiss points that several of the advocates for a strategy (for people that probably aren't you) didn't make.
Post by: kostakio on April 18, 2013, 07:00:38 AM
it's pretty funny that people that think they're smart are attacking emo for daring to introduce the concept of outperforming the mean. you people sound brainwashed.
the concepts he is talking about are 1) more risky than he is selling them as 2) not really compatible with what 90% of the people seeking advice in this thread have for their situation. I mean I would guess that a decent percent are not to $10,000 in their retirement accounts yet. The fees for a brokerage account and each trade will quickly eat in to the profits that they may or may not realize through emo's strategy. Sure we are being a little simplistic, but read the thread title, know the intended audience and provide advice accordingly. I mean there are probably lots of more profitable investments than index funds, but I don't really think there are better options for someone that does not have a ton of capital, does not have a ton of expertise and does not have a ton of time.
4 rough ridin' trades from 2004 to today. 4.
Can you lay this out a little bit more? You have me curios now. I was picturing a much more actively traded system and the little bit I read from the link someone else provided seemed to describe that as well.
If there were just four trades since 2004 can you list them and what triggered them?
Post by: Kat Kid on April 18, 2013, 07:07:13 AM
When looking at index funds what is a good range for the expense ratio?
Vanguard should be the benchmark. They're at like 0.17%. I don't think anyone beats that and don't know why you would go anywhere else unless you had absolutely no choice.
schwab etf's are lower in cost that vanguard funds. etf's in general are lower than mutual funds. prolly doesn't matter if you're 401k investing. i know my 401k has crap for selection, i assume that's standard.
Again ETF's, because they can be actively traded, require a brokerage account and have additional fees associated with them. For first time/small investors it can be pretty close to eating away at the entire point of having a "lower cost."
Post by: Kat Kid on April 18, 2013, 07:08:50 AM
it's pretty funny that people that think they're smart are attacking emo for daring to introduce the concept of outperforming the mean. you people sound brainwashed.
the concepts he is talking about are 1) more risky than he is selling them as 2) not really compatible with what 90% of the people seeking advice in this thread have for their situation. I mean I would guess that a decent percent are not to $10,000 in their retirement accounts yet. The fees for a brokerage account and each trade will quickly eat in to the profits that they may or may not realize through emo's strategy. Sure we are being a little simplistic, but read the thread title, know the intended audience and provide advice accordingly. I mean there are probably lots of more profitable investments than index funds, but I don't really think there are better options for someone that does not have a ton of capital, does not have a ton of expertise and does not have a ton of time.
4 rough ridin' trades from 2004 to today. 4.
Look, I mean just explain the system you are referring to at this point so people can judge it on its own merits.
Post by: chum1 on April 18, 2013, 07:33:15 AM
Post by: GCJayhawker on April 18, 2013, 08:37:23 AM
Post by: CNS on April 18, 2013, 08:45:38 AM
Not a comment on his investing strategy, but def wouldn't want to punch him in the face.
Post by: GCJayhawker on April 18, 2013, 08:49:08 AM
I like Emo. :dunno:
Not a comment on his investing strategy, but def wouldn't want to punch him in the face.
I'm not saying I would want to punch him in the face either. Just saying he strikes me as the type that could rub people the wrong way.
Post by: Johnny Wichita on April 18, 2013, 08:51:09 AM
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 18, 2013, 08:52:17 AM
I didn't really know which thread to post this in since he posts in so many, but I'm pretty Emo is the type of person a lot of people would want to punch in the face. I'm not saying the information he posts is wrong. I have no idea on that, but he strikes me as the type of person who would always have to add his two cents in a conversation to try and prove he is the smartest man in the room.
Hey, more than one way to skin a cat. Just trying to offer a different perspective. I think we can agree that there is no ONE way to do most anything. This board has a crap ton of groupthink and a really strong antibody response to different perspectives. I think generally speaking people here are helpful, and I try to be as well. But our experiences are diverse and there will be differing opinions. Also, I'm pretty good at taking a punch to the face.
Post by: Rams on April 18, 2013, 08:55:37 AM
still not on board with market timing.
Post by: puniraptor on April 18, 2013, 09:01:58 AM
Post by: slobber on April 18, 2013, 09:02:27 AM
You just had to throw in your $0.02. Makes me so want to punch you in the face.I didn't really know which thread to post this in since he posts in so many, but I'm pretty Emo is the type of person a lot of people would want to punch in the face. I'm not saying the information he posts is wrong. I have no idea on that, but he strikes me as the type of person who would always have to add his two cents in a conversation to try and prove he is the smartest man in the room.
Hey, more than one way to skin a cat. Just trying to offer a different perspective. I think we can agree that there is no ONE way to do most anything. This board has a crap ton of groupthink and a really strong antibody response to different perspectives. I think generally speaking people here are helpful, and I try to be as well. But our experiences are diverse and there will be differing opinions. Also, I'm pretty good at taking a punch to the face.
Post by: slobber on April 18, 2013, 09:03:18 AM
I have a traditional ira left over from a 401k rollover from an old job. can I squeeze this into my pending new roth somehow? do I just have to pay taxes on it like I would have?yes
Post by: Rams on April 18, 2013, 09:07:45 AM
I'm not sure what dobber was saying yes to, and I'm not really sure what your question is, but you can't merge traditional and roth ira's. you can convert the ira into a roth ira, but you still don't want to merge them into the same account because there are separate rules with regard to roth conversions and roth contributions.I have a traditional ira left over from a 401k rollover from an old job. can I squeeze this into my pending new roth somehow? do I just have to pay taxes on it like I would have?yes
Post by: slobber on April 18, 2013, 09:15:16 AM
I guess I misunderstood the "pending new roth." I at first thought that he meant he wanted to move it and start a new Roth IRA. Rams is correct. If you have already started a Roth IRA, you will want to roll your traditional IRA into a new-different- IRA. You can have more than one. If the tax hit is too large, at one time you were able to convert it over a three year period. I am not certain if that is still an option. Could probably google it and see if that is an option.I'm not sure what dobber was saying yes to, and I'm not really sure what your question is, but you can't merge traditional and roth ira's. you can convert the ira into a roth ira, but you still don't want to merge them into the same account because there are separate rules with regard to roth conversions and roth contributions.I have a traditional ira left over from a 401k rollover from an old job. can I squeeze this into my pending new roth somehow? do I just have to pay taxes on it like I would have?yes
Also, if you are wondering, the annual contribution limit is based on total contributions to Roth IRA's, so having multiple IRA's does not allow you to contribute more. However, the conversion from traditional to Roth does not count as an IRA contribution.
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 18, 2013, 09:21:58 AM
#temo :emawkid:
still not on board with market timing.
It's not market timing! :shakesfist: ( :D)
Post by: puniraptor on April 18, 2013, 09:23:12 AM
Also, if you are wondering, the annual contribution limit is based on total contributions to Roth IRA's, so having multiple IRA's does not allow you to contribute more.
I was wondering this, thanks!
Post by: Daddy Claxton on April 18, 2013, 09:24:40 AM
that's why "the guy" is a stupid waste of time and detrimental to your investments in almost every situation. he has a clear conflict of interest because he gets a larger kickback from some products than others. because of this he will want you to purchase those products.
So people shouldn't use financial advisors?
sometimes they should. there are definitely good ones out there. the problem is that no matter how good they are their profession has built in conflicts of interest. plus, 98% of the population would do better just contributing to their 401(k), starting an IRA and investing in broad index funds with anything they have left over.
SD, thinking about using "a guy" and he says he is fee only and never receives third party commissions. I thought I liked/trusted him. Is he lying about not taking the commissions?
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on April 18, 2013, 09:30:12 AM
Post by: Mrs. Gooch on April 18, 2013, 09:30:39 AM
Also, if you are wondering, the annual contribution limit is based on total contributions to all Traditional and Roth IRA's, so having multiple IRA's does not allow you to contribute more.
Post by: steve dave on April 18, 2013, 09:30:47 AM
jfc, believe it or not some financial advisors actually do things that are in your best interest
believe it or not most don't
Post by: Daddy Claxton on April 18, 2013, 09:34:10 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 18, 2013, 09:36:52 AM
Hmm. Maybe i don't understand the comissions. If he's not getting comissions like he says, and is paid a percentage of my portfolio, isn't his incentive to push me into garbage eliminated, because he's losing too. Of course only a portion of what I'm losing.
no, I misread what you posted originally. what does he charge? who processes the transactions?
Post by: Daddy Claxton on April 18, 2013, 09:40:34 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 18, 2013, 09:42:30 AM
Up to 3%. Is that reasonable?
well, it is if he can beat the market by over 3% long term. it's not if he can't. I don't know much about fee only financial advisors. it removes a lot of the conflict of interest though.
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on April 18, 2013, 09:44:47 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 18, 2013, 09:45:19 AM
I work for an independant financial advisor and we charge 1% for our fee-based accts
welp, sounds like a ripoff daddy
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on April 18, 2013, 09:46:13 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 18, 2013, 09:47:47 AM
Post by: michigancat on April 18, 2013, 09:47:53 AM
#temo :emawkid:
still not on board with market timing.
It's not market timing! :shakesfist: ( :D)
it is absolutely market timing.
(I think people were dismissing this system not just because he isn't likeable, but also because he didn't seem to know what he was talking about.)
Post by: ben ji on April 18, 2013, 09:50:32 AM
Since we're on the subject, Edward Jones is a piece of crap company and no one should ever use them
Apparently Edward Jones is making new reps go door to door again....really ups the prestige of your company.
I was talking with one of my buddies the other day about investing and he was super proud to say he uses edward jones. I asked him what he had with them(IRA, Brokerage, etc) and he had no idea, he just gives them a check every month because his dad told him to use them. :angry:
Post by: Daddy Claxton on April 18, 2013, 09:51:30 AM
Thanks for the info ERiI. I have something to negotiate with. If not, i'll get your card
Post by: steve dave on April 18, 2013, 09:53:23 AM
Doubt he'd beat the market by 3% but would probably beat what I'd do on my own by more than 3%.
Matching the market is easy. That's essentially what the best tips in this thread have pointed to imo.
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on April 18, 2013, 09:54:58 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 18, 2013, 10:03:53 AM
I started out w/ EJ after college, went door to door a little here in mhk for practice then did their training program at the home office in St Louis. They've made some drastic changes recently and have really gone down hill. They push their advisors to put everything in "advisory solution" (fee-based) and just do nothing. When SteveDave says financial advisors don't do what's in your best interest, he's talking about Edward Jones
I'm talking about all of the large brokerages (and probably small as well though I don't have 1st hand knowledge). I know there are good people in the industry (you and Rams I'm sure are great) but you have to admit that the majority of advisors out there are trying to sell either garbage product or garbage service.
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on April 18, 2013, 10:05:57 AM
I started out w/ EJ after college, went door to door a little here in mhk for practice then did their training program at the home office in St Louis. They've made some drastic changes recently and have really gone down hill. They push their advisors to put everything in "advisory solution" (fee-based) and just do nothing. When SteveDave says financial advisors don't do what's in your best interest, he's talking about Edward Jones
I'm talking about all of the large brokerages (and probably small as well though I don't have 1st hand knowledge). I know there are good people in the industry (you and Rams I'm sure are great) but you have to admit that the majority of advisors out there are trying to sell either garbage product or garbage service.
I agree. Case in point, we just transfered a client's portfolio over and her previous advisor must have caught wind the client was going to transfer so she bought 18 different mutual funds with the cash that was sitting in the account 2 days before the transfer
Post by: steve dave on April 18, 2013, 10:09:11 AM
I started out w/ EJ after college, went door to door a little here in mhk for practice then did their training program at the home office in St Louis. They've made some drastic changes recently and have really gone down hill. They push their advisors to put everything in "advisory solution" (fee-based) and just do nothing. When SteveDave says financial advisors don't do what's in your best interest, he's talking about Edward Jones
I'm talking about all of the large brokerages (and probably small as well though I don't have 1st hand knowledge). I know there are good people in the industry (you and Rams I'm sure are great) but you have to admit that the majority of advisors out there are trying to sell either garbage product or garbage service.
I agree. Case in point, we just transfered a client's portfolio over and her previous advisor must have caught wind the client was going to transfer so she bought 18 different mutual funds with the cash that was sitting in the account 2 days before the transfer
:sdeek:
Post by: GCJayhawker on April 18, 2013, 10:11:40 AM
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 18, 2013, 10:13:56 AM
#temo :emawkid:
still not on board with market timing.
It's not market timing! :shakesfist: ( :D)
it is absolutely market timing.
(I think people were dismissing this system not just because he isn't likeable, but also because he didn't seem to know what he was talking about.)
I absolutely know what I'm talking about. I went all OCD on this a while ago. I'm having trouble explaining it and you guys understanding it because we don't have a common frame of reference and vocabulary. Also the stimulus antibody response thing. It's also text on a screen with no visual aids. I'll add some VA, or just start a new thread on TA to prevent further mucking up this one.
Post by: Rams on April 18, 2013, 10:14:38 AM
yeah...and it's an overwhelmingly disgusting majority. truth be told though, over half of those "advisors" are so stupid they actually think what they're doing is good for their client.I started out w/ EJ after college, went door to door a little here in mhk for practice then did their training program at the home office in St Louis. They've made some drastic changes recently and have really gone down hill. They push their advisors to put everything in "advisory solution" (fee-based) and just do nothing. When SteveDave says financial advisors don't do what's in your best interest, he's talking about Edward Jones
I'm talking about all of the large brokerages (and probably small as well though I don't have 1st hand knowledge). I know there are good people in the industry (you and Rams I'm sure are great) but you have to admit that the majority of advisors out there are trying to sell either garbage product or garbage service.
Post by: puniraptor on April 18, 2013, 10:15:52 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 18, 2013, 10:17:38 AM
are there index funds for penny stock markets?
haha, not yet
Post by: sys on April 18, 2013, 10:24:19 AM
Look, dumbass, there have been several people that made spurious claims "guaranteeing" an annual return. I never did that bullshit and simply said that making trades in a brokerage account when you have less than $10,000 (which many "new" investors would be starting with) is idiotic. I listed the reasons. Look at the thread title. Your situation seems to be significantly different, you also are a pretty smart guy, but don't resort to making arguments that dismiss points that several of the advocates for a strategy (for people that probably aren't you) didn't make.
emo stated in his original post that with his strategy, he'd made a very limited number of trades over a moderate time frame. you ignored his actual, real world results and attacked some strawman argument in your head, so i ignored your post and addressed the more relevant people misguidedly attacking emo.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 18, 2013, 10:35:18 AM
are there index funds for penny stock markets?
haha, not yet
The first guy who comes out with the pendex fund is going to be rich. I think that guy is going to be me. Does anybody have any suggestions on how I can get the ball rolling on this?
Post by: steve dave on April 18, 2013, 10:37:33 AM
are there index funds for penny stock markets?
haha, not yet
The first guy who comes out with the pendex fund is going to be rich. I think that guy is going to be me. Does anybody have any suggestions on how I can get the ball rolling on this?
the fund will have to cost about 2 cents a share because a big part of penny stock investors enjoyment is the fact that they are so cheap (not relative to market cap or any other metric, just cash). you can throw whatever else you want in it and you will be good to go.
Post by: slobber on April 18, 2013, 10:37:41 AM
Isn't Gooch like one of the luckiest SOB's on the planet?Also, if you are wondering, the annual contribution limit is based on total contributions to all Traditional and Roth IRA's, so having multiple IRA's does not allow you to contribute more.
:cheers:
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 18, 2013, 10:41:16 AM
are there index funds for penny stock markets?
haha, not yet
The first guy who comes out with the pendex fund is going to be rich. I think that guy is going to be me. Does anybody have any suggestions on how I can get the ball rolling on this?
the fund will have to cost about 2 cents a share because a big part of penny stock investors enjoyment is the fact that they are so cheap (not relative to market cap or any other metric, just cash). you can throw whatever else you want in it and you will be good to go.
I will create the Pennies and Cents 500 and sell an index of that for $5 per share. Hopefully those penny investor guys can see the value of getting an index of 500 different stocks for $5. Just think of the growth potential.
Post by: GoodForAnother on April 18, 2013, 10:43:14 AM
I also have around $1200 in a schwab investor fund invested in SWDSX
am I doing anything stupid, and if so, what can I do that's smarter? move the $1200 with schwab into a vanguard roth? do roths have minimum investments? my main thing is that represents a decent chunk of my current savings and I would like to keep it easily accessible in case I have a big financial emergency, so if a roth means I can't pull it out easily, I don't want to do that.
Post by: steve dave on April 18, 2013, 10:43:51 AM
are there index funds for penny stock markets?
haha, not yet
The first guy who comes out with the pendex fund is going to be rich. I think that guy is going to be me. Does anybody have any suggestions on how I can get the ball rolling on this?
the fund will have to cost about 2 cents a share because a big part of penny stock investors enjoyment is the fact that they are so cheap (not relative to market cap or any other metric, just cash). you can throw whatever else you want in it and you will be good to go.
I will create the Pennies and Cents 500 and sell an index of that for $5 per share. Hopefully those penny investor guys can see the value of getting an index of 500 different stocks for $5. Just think of the growth potential.
it would have to go up to 10 to double their investment. won't work. if it's 2 cents it only has to go to 4 cents to double. think like a penny stock investor NK.
Post by: Daddy Claxton on April 18, 2013, 10:44:38 AM
I could handle dumping all the cash into index funds. My problem is knowing when to sell the company stock for proper earnings and favorable tax treatment. Might be just my ignorance that scares me.Doubt he'd beat the market by 3% but would probably beat what I'd do on my own by more than 3%.
Matching the market is easy. That's essentially what the best tips in this thread have pointed to imo.
Post by: Rams on April 18, 2013, 10:45:55 AM
Up to 3%. Is that reasonable?not only is it unreasonable, I'm pretty sure it's illegal. you have to be misunderstanding him. I don't think you can legally charge over 2.5% per year for aum (not 100% sure on that though). most RIA's I've seen set maximums around 2%. the highest I've ever seen actually charged is 1.75% and you should never pay more than 1%. I guess some strictly fee-only advisors charge based on total estate assets (house, land, etc.) so that might be the case. I don't have a lot of experience with fee-only advisors.
but to answer your question, if he's advertising himself as fee-only then he absolutely cannot make commissions on anything he does unless he wants to lose his licenses and pay massive fines. there are some good regulations in this industry. not nearly enough, but there are some.
Post by: ben ji on April 18, 2013, 10:47:40 AM
so my 401(k) is all in VFIFX and it's at around $15k after like 2.75 years with the company
I also have around $1200 in a schwab investor fund invested in SWDSX
am I doing anything stupid, and if so, what can I do that's smarter? move the $1200 with schwab into a vanguard roth? do roths have minimum investments? my main thing is that represents a decent chunk of my current savings and I would like to keep it easily accessible in case I have a big financial emergency, so if a roth means I can't pull it out easily, I don't want to do that.
My advice is to build up more of an emergency fund first so you dont have to worry about that $1200 then move that $1200 into a roth IRA and keep making contributions to the roth after maxing your employer match on the 401k.
But yes, in an emergency you can withdraw the principal of your roth IRA with no penalty.
Post by: steve dave on April 18, 2013, 10:48:32 AM
I could handle dumping all the cash into index funds. My problem is knowing when to sell the company stock for proper earnings and favorable tax treatment. Might be just my ignorance that scares me.Doubt he'd beat the market by 3% but would probably beat what I'd do on my own by more than 3%.
Matching the market is easy. That's essentially what the best tips in this thread have pointed to imo.
Why don't you just sell all of it whenever it becomes available to sell under the rules? like, set an annual date and unload however much you can. or have you amassed a shitload of it? I'd talk to a CPA instead of some guy that's going to charge you 3% for the tax stuff.
Post by: Rams on April 18, 2013, 10:53:43 AM
wait, are you talking stock options or do you just have regular company stock?I could handle dumping all the cash into index funds. My problem is knowing when to sell the company stock for proper earnings and favorable tax treatment. Might be just my ignorance that scares me.Doubt he'd beat the market by 3% but would probably beat what I'd do on my own by more than 3%.
Matching the market is easy. That's essentially what the best tips in this thread have pointed to imo.
Post by: michigancat on April 18, 2013, 11:18:29 AM
#temo :emawkid:
still not on board with market timing.
It's not market timing! :shakesfist: ( :D)
it is absolutely market timing.
(I think people were dismissing this system not just because he isn't likeable, but also because he didn't seem to know what he was talking about.)
I absolutely know what I'm talking about. I went all OCD on this a while ago. I'm having trouble explaining it and you guys understanding it because we don't have a common frame of reference and vocabulary. Also the stimulus antibody response thing. It's also text on a screen with no visual aids. I'll add some VA, or just start a new thread on TA to prevent further mucking up this one.
You also can't seem to come up with a good link explaining it. You also seem to just be making crap up and cherry picking dates to start and end with.
I'm guessing you're talking about doing something like this?
http://www.jobenjoy.com/using-simple-moving-averages-to-time-the-market/
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 18, 2013, 11:22:06 AM
#temo :emawkid:
still not on board with market timing.
It's not market timing! :shakesfist: ( :D)
it is absolutely market timing.
(I think people were dismissing this system not just because he isn't likeable, but also because he didn't seem to know what he was talking about.)
I absolutely know what I'm talking about. I went all OCD on this a while ago. I'm having trouble explaining it and you guys understanding it because we don't have a common frame of reference and vocabulary. Also the stimulus antibody response thing. It's also text on a screen with no visual aids. I'll add some VA, or just start a new thread on TA to prevent further mucking up this one.
You also can't seem to come up with a good link explaining it. You also seem to just be making crap up and cherry picking dates to start and end with.
I'm guessing you're talking about doing something like this?
http://www.jobenjoy.com/using-simple-moving-averages-to-time-the-market/
I didn't learn about it on the internet. I'd hate to post a link I'm not familiar with and have you guys go all torch and pitchfork on it. Willing to read a book?
Post by: michigancat on April 18, 2013, 11:39:14 AM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on April 18, 2013, 12:41:28 PM
*Not talking about little people
Post by: steve dave on April 18, 2013, 12:42:13 PM
It amazes me how little people know about basic investing.
*Not talking about little people
that's a good use of *
Post by: Stupid Fitz on April 18, 2013, 01:10:56 PM
It amazes me how little people know about basic investing.
*Not talking about little people
that's a good use of *
:D
Post by: tdaver on April 18, 2013, 02:46:44 PM
I started out w/ EJ after college, went door to door a little here in mhk for practice then did their training program at the home office in St Louis. They've made some drastic changes recently and have really gone down hill. They push their advisors to put everything in "advisory solution" (fee-based) and just do nothing. When SteveDave says financial advisors don't do what's in your best interest, he's talking about Edward Jones
An EJ guy has been bugging me to invest in "Advisory Solutions" for a couple years now. There's an up front 4-5% fee and ~2% annually (1.35% EJ fee plus fund fees).
I'm glad I read this thread. I feel much better about ignoring him all this time.
Post by: kostakio on April 18, 2013, 04:27:44 PM
I started out w/ EJ after college, went door to door a little here in mhk for practice then did their training program at the home office in St Louis. They've made some drastic changes recently and have really gone down hill. They push their advisors to put everything in "advisory solution" (fee-based) and just do nothing. When SteveDave says financial advisors don't do what's in your best interest, he's talking about Edward Jones
An EJ guy has been bugging me to invest in "Advisory Solutions" for a couple years now. There's an up front 4-5% fee and ~2% annually (1.35% EJ fee plus fund fees).
I'm glad I read this thread. I feel much better about ignoring him all this time.
Good lord that is a rip off. It seems there is an EJ office on every corner in joco. I gather they are one of the few full service places that goes after lower net worth type of clients. The sad thing is I think they actually get quite a bit of that business around here.
Post by: steve dave on April 19, 2013, 08:28:02 AM
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/content/Funds/FundsAdmiralSharesOverviewJSP.jsp
They have lower expense ratios then the already low expense ratio Vanguard shares. I have an S&P index admiral fund (VFIAX) with them at 0.05%. If you just want to match the market it's pretty fool proof. And there are no purchase or redemption fees. Not really "new to investing" advice depending on what kind of money you are sitting on though.
EDIT: It's actually the fund Warren is whipping wall street's ass with right now:
http://blogs.barrons.com/focusonfunds/2013/01/25/buffett-wins-with-an-index-fund/?mod=yahoobarrons
Post by: Daddy Claxton on April 19, 2013, 08:59:40 AM
Also want to add that I would probably want to punch GC Hawk long before Emo if I met them both. Plus, MIcat's character would not be complete w/o Emo
Post by: WonderMeal on April 19, 2013, 09:20:49 AM
This post is pretty DNR, so I'm going to bold the highlights.
For those of you new to investing--I'm a big proponent of using Charles Schwab. Their website gives you all the info you'll ever need to know, but more importantly, their customer service is outstanding. Hold times are negligible, all customer service reps are happy, all call centers are based in Phoenix or Denver, and other banking products are free/outstanding. Schwab really made a young WonderMeal feel comfortable with investing and answered all of my investor n00b questions, which is why I think they're great for new investors. (Note: I don't pay them for investing advice, since I'm just trying to match the market. I just ask them questions when I have old 401ks/403bs to roll over, etc.) I can't speak for other brokerage firms and I'm sure some others are great, but I've been with Schwab for almost a decade and don't see a need to see anyone else.
my 401 is in a vanguard target fund, vfifx. it's done really well for me, especially over the last year (13.44%).
That return is great, and 'grats, but I think the S&P500 grew by 16% in 2012. The expense ratio of the index fund SD and his Omaha friend use is .13% lower than VFIFX. However, the fact that target date funds become 'safer' near your retirement age makes the slightly higher expense ratio justifiable, and could be a good option for our real life friend KSC.
For investor n00bs who have been swayed by my Schwab sales pitch, I have had lots of success with SWPPX (tracks S&P 500, expense ratio of .08%) and SNFXX (tracks S&P plus the next-largest 500 companies, expense ratio of .29%). Almost every time I have tried to get cute and find mutual funds/stocks/ETFs to outperform these two guys, I have lost.
See you in a few years down at Del Boca Vista (ocean view), SD, Pete, and KSC!
Post by: Rams on April 19, 2013, 09:25:54 AM
If you have $10k you can invest in Vanguard Admiral shares.that warren buffett bet was awesome...and fairly predictable. I'll never understand why seemingly intelligent (very wealthy successful people) continue to give money to hedge funds. a lot of them charge 2 and 20 which is rough ridin' criminal, but I heard on cnbc the other day that one of the most popular ones (can't remember the manager) charges 3 and 50! :sdeek: I mean I guess if they can legally steal from rich dumbfucks then good for them. :dunno:
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/content/Funds/FundsAdmiralSharesOverviewJSP.jsp
They have lower expense ratios then the already low expense ratio Vanguard shares. I have an S&P index admiral fund (VFIAX) with them at 0.05%. If you just want to match the market it's pretty fool proof. And there are no purchase or redemption fees. Not really "new to investing" advice depending on what kind of money you are sitting on though.
EDIT: It's actually the fund Warren is whipping wall street's ass with right now:
http://blogs.barrons.com/focusonfunds/2013/01/25/buffett-wins-with-an-index-fund/?mod=yahoobarrons
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 19, 2013, 09:29:30 AM
Post by: ben ji on April 19, 2013, 09:31:54 AM
ben ji, im probably just going to invest most of my spare cash in gold and bury it in your backyard. cool?
Lady will just dig it all up and use the gold as chew toys but sure give it a shot.
Post by: slobber on April 19, 2013, 09:53:17 AM
ben ji, im probably just going to invest most of my spare cash in gold and bury it in your backyard. cool?
Lady will just dig it all up and use the gold as chew toys but sure give it a shot.
LADY EATS GOLD!!!!!!!!!!!! :runaway: :runaway: :runaway:
Post by: mocat on April 19, 2013, 09:55:03 AM
Post by: ben ji on April 19, 2013, 10:02:03 AM
You think I would let the neighbors see my dog with silver? Come on broooooo :kstategrad:ben ji, im probably just going to invest most of my spare cash in gold and bury it in your backyard. cool?
Lady will just dig it all up and use the gold as chew toys but sure give it a shot.LADY EATS GOLD!!!!!!!!!!!! :runaway: :runaway: :runaway:
Post by: michigancat on April 19, 2013, 10:08:50 AM
Thanks for the tips, guys. If 1% is the going rate for "a guy" (not edward jones of course) and the commissions are eliminated, I'm not sure why anyone would mess with it themselves, unless you just enjoy it. Kinda seems like cutting your own hair though.
are you serious? 1% is huge for doing something that isn't too hard. I mean I literally do nothing.
Post by: kostakio on April 19, 2013, 10:35:28 AM
Thanks for the tips, guys. If 1% is the going rate for "a guy" (not edward jones of course) and the commissions are eliminated, I'm not sure why anyone would mess with it themselves, unless you just enjoy it. Kinda seems like cutting your own hair though.
Also want to add that I would probably want to punch GC Hawk long before Emo if I met them both. Plus, MIcat's character would not be complete w/o Emo
It takes as long to open an account and fund it with "a guy" as it does to open one on-line. Once you've done that it takes about 10 seconds to buy one of the index funds people have recomended here. Honestly it's probably more work to use a guy because you have to deal with him and his stupid assistant rather then just doing it yourself.
There are quality financial advisors out there but you younger guys just starting out don't need one and the good ones don't want your business either. You can always find one as you get older and your finances become more complex.
Post by: Rams on April 19, 2013, 10:42:41 AM
good advice, fwiwThanks for the tips, guys. If 1% is the going rate for "a guy" (not edward jones of course) and the commissions are eliminated, I'm not sure why anyone would mess with it themselves, unless you just enjoy it. Kinda seems like cutting your own hair though.
Also want to add that I would probably want to punch GC Hawk long before Emo if I met them both. Plus, MIcat's character would not be complete w/o Emo
It takes as long to open an account and fund it with "a guy" as it does to open one on-line. Once you've done that it takes about 10 seconds to buy one of the index funds people have recomended here. Honestly it's probably more work to use a guy because you have to deal with him and his stupid assistant rather then just doing it yourself.
There are quality financial advisors out there but you younger guys just starting out don't need one and the good ones don't want your business either. You can always find one as you get older and your finances become more complex.
Post by: GoodForAnother on April 19, 2013, 11:08:06 AM
For investor n00bs who have been swayed by my Schwab sales pitch, I have had lots of success with SWPPX (tracks S&P 500, expense ratio of .08%) and SNFXX (tracks S&P plus the next-largest 500 companies, expense ratio of .29%). Almost every time I have tried to get cute and find mutual funds/stocks/ETFs to outperform these two guys, I have lost.
I have about 1200 in Schwab in SWDSX but based on what you just said I am moving the majority of my shares over to SWPPX (all of them that can be moved without a redemption fee). I have a checking/savings/investment account with Schwab and they have by far the best customer service of any financial company I have interacted with (which is most of them).
I sort of just picked SWDSX at random but this thread has completely sold me on indexes so I'm just going to move it all over there and set it and forget, then get a Roth in the next year or two when I have more available to invest (paying for a wedding right now).
Post by: Daddy Claxton on April 19, 2013, 12:47:53 PM
If we're talking about a 10k account per thread parameters, the equivalent of picking up the bar tab doesn't seem 'huge' assuming 'the guy' providing something more than 'put it all in an index fund'. I mean, if my barber pulled out a flow bee, i wouldn't go get my own flow bee; I'd get a new barber.Thanks for the tips, guys. If 1% is the going rate for "a guy" (not edward jones of course) and the commissions are eliminated, I'm not sure why anyone would mess with it themselves, unless you just enjoy it. Kinda seems like cutting your own hair though.
are you serious? 1% is huge for doing something that isn't too hard. I mean I literally do nothing.
DISCLAIMER: before the fangs come out again, I'm here to GET info, not give advice. Don't take my statements as applicable in any way to your situation. I admit I'm clueless about this stuff.
Post by: michigancat on April 19, 2013, 01:19:11 PM
If we're talking about a 10k account per thread parameters, the equivalent of picking up the bar tab doesn't seem 'huge' assuming 'the guy' providing something more than 'put it all in an index fund'. I mean, if my barber pulled out a flow bee, i wouldn't go get my own flow bee; I'd get a new barber.Thanks for the tips, guys. If 1% is the going rate for "a guy" (not edward jones of course) and the commissions are eliminated, I'm not sure why anyone would mess with it themselves, unless you just enjoy it. Kinda seems like cutting your own hair though.
are you serious? 1% is huge for doing something that isn't too hard. I mean I literally do nothing.
DISCLAIMER: before the fangs come out again, I'm here to GET info, not give advice. Don't take my statements as applicable in any way to your situation. I admit I'm clueless about this stuff.
The problem with your barber comparison is that it's unlikely the advisor could show you a 1% improvement over an index or target retirement fund and will probably be more difficult and take up more of your time. other than that it's spot on. oh, and you didn't see my fangs, buddy. No siree. I only go "Central Texas" on folks when I'm angry.
Post by: Daddy Claxton on April 19, 2013, 01:30:42 PM
Wasn't referring to your fangs, but some others that were called out a few pages ago. Fangs are what you do; you're good at it.
Post by: kostakio on April 19, 2013, 01:43:27 PM
If we're talking about a 10k account per thread parameters, the equivalent of picking up the bar tab doesn't seem 'huge' assuming 'the guy' providing something more than 'put it all in an index fund'. I mean, if my barber pulled out a flow bee, i wouldn't go get my own flow bee; I'd get a new barber.Thanks for the tips, guys. If 1% is the going rate for "a guy" (not edward jones of course) and the commissions are eliminated, I'm not sure why anyone would mess with it themselves, unless you just enjoy it. Kinda seems like cutting your own hair though.
are you serious? 1% is huge for doing something that isn't too hard. I mean I literally do nothing.
DISCLAIMER: before the fangs come out again, I'm here to GET info, not give advice. Don't take my statements as applicable in any way to your situation. I admit I'm clueless about this stuff.
1% a year compunded over a number of years can add up to a lot of money. It's unlikely the professional will be able to get you back that extra 1%. Odds are if anything he's going to lose you money on top of that by putting you in actively managed funds that underperform the index and have higher fees. See the previous post referencing the bet that Warren Buffett made against the hedge fund index. These large hedge funds full of Ivy league MBA's are getting trounced by an index fund that anyone can buy for next to nothing.
Post by: michigancat on April 19, 2013, 01:58:37 PM
If we're talking about a 10k account per thread parameters, the equivalent of picking up the bar tab doesn't seem 'huge' assuming 'the guy' providing something more than 'put it all in an index fund'. I mean, if my barber pulled out a flow bee, i wouldn't go get my own flow bee; I'd get a new barber.Thanks for the tips, guys. If 1% is the going rate for "a guy" (not edward jones of course) and the commissions are eliminated, I'm not sure why anyone would mess with it themselves, unless you just enjoy it. Kinda seems like cutting your own hair though.
are you serious? 1% is huge for doing something that isn't too hard. I mean I literally do nothing.
DISCLAIMER: before the fangs come out again, I'm here to GET info, not give advice. Don't take my statements as applicable in any way to your situation. I admit I'm clueless about this stuff.
1% a year compunded over a number of years can add up to a lot of money. It's unlikely the professional will be able to get you back that extra 1%. Odds are if anything he's going to lose you money on top of that by putting you in actively managed funds that underperform the index and have higher fees. See the previous post referencing the bet that Warren Buffett made against the hedge fund index. These large hedge funds full of Ivy league MBA's are getting trounced by an index fund that anyone can buy for next to nothing.
Yeah, the 1% is huge if you're investing for retirement (which any small time investor should be doing).
http://www.dinkytown.net/java/RegularIRA.html
A quick calculation shows $114k @7% vs. $81k @ 6%.
Post by: WonderMeal on April 20, 2013, 01:59:10 PM
WonderMeal, great entrance.
:cheers: (Also, I have loved 'Tay since the second he stepped on campus. So :cheers: x2.)
I think the best financial advice I could give to beginners is: don't have kids until later in life. I mean, kids are great and whatever, but they make the following things more expensive:
- Rent/mortgage (need bigger house)
- Insurance (family vs. individual plans)
- Food
- Day care (about as expensive as a rent payment, depending on where you live)
- Random other stuff (food, doctor co-pays, clothes, etc)
If you have kids young, that severely limits the advantages of compounding interest 40 years down the road. So save that cash now.
Post by: steve dave on April 20, 2013, 02:03:37 PM
If you have kids young, that severely limits the advantages of compounding interest 40 years down the road. So save that cash now.
This is something you don't hear. I've never considered it honestly. Great post.
Post by: michigancat on April 20, 2013, 02:10:16 PM
Post by: steve dave on April 20, 2013, 02:11:20 PM
Or just don't have kids
obviously, but I've not heard that particular argument for having kids late.
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 20, 2013, 11:51:56 PM
Might have to get a special prenup for that one?
Post by: steve dave on April 21, 2013, 08:55:06 AM
Post by: reidrolled on April 21, 2013, 10:49:38 AM
#temo :emawkid:
still not on board with market timing.
It's not market timing! :shakesfist: ( :D)
it is absolutely market timing.
(I think people were dismissing this system not just because he isn't likeable, but also because he didn't seem to know what he was talking about.)
I absolutely know what I'm talking about. I went all OCD on this a while ago. I'm having trouble explaining it and you guys understanding it because we don't have a common frame of reference and vocabulary. Also the stimulus antibody response thing. It's also text on a screen with no visual aids. I'll add some VA, or just start a new thread on TA to prevent further mucking up this one.
You also can't seem to come up with a good link explaining it. You also seem to just be making crap up and cherry picking dates to start and end with.
I'm guessing you're talking about doing something like this?
http://www.jobenjoy.com/using-simple-moving-averages-to-time-the-market/
I imagine this is what he is talking about.... more specifically the dual 50 and 200 day moving averages. This is something that I have been very seriously considering doing with the SPY (S&P index). Essentially you are using moving averages as market indicators as to when you want to go short or long, based on the shorter term average crossing above or below the longer term.
Where I find value is that this can allow you to make money on the downswings in the market as well, or at least not lose money.
tradingview.com is a very neat website that lets you customize charts and add whatever indicators you feel are relevant. i use the 20, 50, and 200 day moving average along with a few others that have been surprisingly good predictors over the past couple of months that I have been following it.
Edit: before someone tees off on this, I am not doing this as a retirement strategy. Just something that I find interesting and want to get a feel for on more of a macro scale before I get into more specific investments.
Edit to my edit: I am not going to use this exclusively on a specific stock pick, I just think it is very important to have a technical idea of what the stock is doing before taking a position in it.
Post by: steve dave on April 21, 2013, 11:06:16 AM
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-17/buffett-mocking-gold-sidesteps-slump-as-he-bets-on-stocks.html
Post by: Rams on April 21, 2013, 11:20:13 AM
Warren laughs at gold "investors"
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-17/buffett-mocking-gold-sidesteps-slump-as-he-bets-on-stocks.html
he's always hated gold. I always use this buffett quote when clients come to me wanting to buy gold:
Quote
[Gold] gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head.
I'll never trust/understand anything with an inverted supply curve.
Post by: sys on April 21, 2013, 09:39:54 PM
before someone tees off on this...
you shouldn't feel like you have to justify yourself for trying to improve the return on your investment. the posters that teed off on emo were being dumbasses.
Post by: michigancat on April 21, 2013, 10:00:47 PM
before someone tees off on this...
you shouldn't feel like you have to justify yourself for trying to improve the return on your investment. the posters that teed off on emo were being dumbasses.
Bullshit. Reidrolled was being completely reasonable and went into far more detail than emo. Emo was being a dumbass and still doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.
Post by: sys on April 21, 2013, 10:45:58 PM
Bullshit. Reidrolled was being completely reasonable and went into far more detail than emo. Emo was being a dumbass and still doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.
i didn't say anything about whether emo knew what he was talking about or not. i do know that the posters that attacked him didn't know what the eff they were talking about.
to your credit, you looked for additional information on the issue, figured out you'd been a dumbass and admitted as much. i don't think any of the other posters did that.
Post by: michigancat on April 21, 2013, 10:59:39 PM
Post by: sys on April 21, 2013, 11:13:30 PM
no one attacked him.
they did though.
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 22, 2013, 09:32:18 AM
before someone tees off on this...
you shouldn't feel like you have to justify yourself for trying to improve the return on your investment. the posters that teed off on emo were being dumbasses.
Bullshit. Reidrolled was being completely reasonable and went into far more detail than emo. Emo was being a dumbass and still doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.
Jesus man, get some perspective. Impressing you or anyone else on here isn't a priority. You come across as a reasonably intelligent person. Using that perceived intelligence look at my post and do some basic research. It's the hallmark of one of the two core philosophies of investing. It shouldn't be that hard to find information. There are literally hundreds of books written about the subject. But you're going to have to open your mind and put aside your bitterness over people odd/bold enough to expect to beat the market.
Post by: michigancat on April 22, 2013, 09:43:11 AM
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 22, 2013, 09:44:33 AM
Post by: michigancat on April 22, 2013, 09:54:37 AM
It was counter dickishness. But like I said use the internet thingy and discover for yourself. It will be more rewarding that way. There's also like a hundred different opinions on it so some might suit you more than others.
I was trying to use the "internet thingy" to learn more about the methods a real life person supposedly used successfully. I thought that may have been more valuable/rewarding.
Post by: steve dave on April 22, 2013, 09:57:59 AM
It was counter dickishness. But like I said use the internet thingy and discover for yourself. It will be more rewarding that way. There's also like a hundred different opinions on it so some might suit you more than others.
you should have used that internet thingy to figure out what a Roth was before you started giving bad advice on it.
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 22, 2013, 09:59:58 AM
It was counter dickishness. But like I said use the internet thingy and discover for yourself. It will be more rewarding that way. There's also like a hundred different opinions on it so some might suit you more than others.
you should have used that internet thingy to figure out what a Roth was before you started giving bad advice on it.
We were saying the same thing dumbass. Go back and read.
Post by: steve dave on April 22, 2013, 10:00:53 AM
It was counter dickishness. But like I said use the internet thingy and discover for yourself. It will be more rewarding that way. There's also like a hundred different opinions on it so some might suit you more than others.
you should have used that internet thingy to figure out what a Roth was before you started giving bad advice on it.
We were saying the same thing dumbass. Go back and read.
I contribute enough to my 401k to max out the employer match, and then I use the rest of my spare money purchasing stocks.
you are pissing away some good tax breaks broseph
Depends. Probably a safe assumption tax rates when we retire will be higher. Better to pay the income tax up front and not pay it later. At least that's my way of looking at it.
it doesn't depend at all. he can either put it in a roth or contribute more than his employers match to his 401k until he hits his personal max. either way it's a tax break over buying stocks with after tax money and getting hit again when he sells them.
Well a Roth is an after tax contribution. So no tax break there. You might be thinking of a traditional IRA?
Agree on the 401k, although mine won't let me purchase anything other than the two dozen funds they offer (Prudential).
I'm not 100% certain you understand how a Roth works (I'm actually 100% certain you don't).
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 22, 2013, 10:11:09 AM
Roth IRA: funded by after-tax contributions; no income tax on disbursements
Trading account: funded by after-tax contributions; no income tax on disbursements
Post by: steve dave on April 22, 2013, 10:12:42 AM
Sit down sd because I'm about to blow your mind:
Roth IRA: funded by after-tax contributions; no income tax on disbursements
Trading account: funded by after-tax contributions; no income tax on disbursements
yeah, you may want to use that internet thingy to research the tax advantages of a roth
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 22, 2013, 10:14:16 AM
Sit down sd because I'm about to blow your mind:
Roth IRA: funded by after-tax contributions; no income tax on disbursements
Trading account: funded by after-tax contributions; no income tax on disbursements
yeah, you may want to use that internet thingy to research the tax advantages of a roth
Only a dumbass would complain about paying capital gains. Like that's the whole point of investing. Seems like you'd be super interested to write off the losses, too. :lol:
Post by: steve dave on April 22, 2013, 10:15:42 AM
Sit down sd because I'm about to blow your mind:
Roth IRA: funded by after-tax contributions; no income tax on disbursements
Trading account: funded by after-tax contributions; no income tax on disbursements
yeah, you may want to use that internet thingy to research the tax advantages of a roth
Only a dumbass would complain about paying capital gains. Like that's the whole point of investing. Seems like you'd be super interested to write off the losses, too. :lol:
congrats on finally using that internet thingy to find out what a Roth is
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 22, 2013, 10:18:02 AM
Sit down sd because I'm about to blow your mind:
Roth IRA: funded by after-tax contributions; no income tax on disbursements
Trading account: funded by after-tax contributions; no income tax on disbursements
yeah, you may want to use that internet thingy to research the tax advantages of a roth
Only a dumbass would complain about paying capital gains. Like that's the whole point of investing. Seems like you'd be super interested to write off the losses, too. :lol:
congrats on finally using that internet thingy to find out what a Roth is
Have known that all along. Here's a tip sd: just keep everything in that index fund and you won't have to worry about paying much capital gains. :lol:
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 22, 2013, 10:26:39 AM
Post by: sys on April 22, 2013, 12:53:45 PM
Post by: steve dave on April 22, 2013, 01:05:15 PM
anyone invest in individual stocks? to me, that's the fun part.
I used to but not anymore.
Post by: GCJayhawker on April 22, 2013, 01:07:50 PM
enough with the market timing fight. anyone invest in individual stocks? to me, that's the fun part.
I have a few. Mostly just for my own enjoyment, not really a way to strike it rich or anything unless I get lucky.
Post by: Stevesie60 on April 22, 2013, 01:09:55 PM
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 22, 2013, 01:41:24 PM
enough with the market timing fight. anyone invest in individual stocks? to me, that's the fun part.
Of course. I think TA mostly applies to individual stocks and that's most of my experience, however did use the principles to convert 401k funds to GI fund and back in 08/09.
I don't like the stuff that gets lots of news coverage (like AAPL or FB). I like a certain market cap and up and also like some amount of active trading because I like sell orders processed quickly. Other than that I'm open to just about anything. Almost everything I do is a stop/limit kind of order. Everything I hold has a corresponding conditional sell order.
Post by: ben ji on April 22, 2013, 01:58:28 PM
enough with the market timing fight. anyone invest in individual stocks? to me, that's the fun part.
I have a few. Mostly just for my own enjoyment, not really a way to strike it rich or anything unless I get lucky.
This.
Currently own some YRC stock, Bought in over the summer for around $6.45 per share and it is currently at 6.75. Was up over 8.00 a share a couple weeks ago but has had some crazy fluctuations both good and bad.
Back in 2010 I read an atricle about Macau overtaking Vegas and the worldwide gambling capital. Looked up the companies that had casino's based in Macaua and its basically just Wynn and Las Vegas Sands. Was going to buy some LVS stock for $28 but I was a new grad and didnt have any money. LVS us currently over $50. :(
Post by: sys on April 22, 2013, 02:04:23 PM
I used to but not anymore.
why did you get out?
Post by: sys on April 22, 2013, 02:05:55 PM
Almost everything I do is a stop/limit kind of order.
me too, but i think it's just sort of an emotional crutch, prolly makes no real difference.
Post by: steve dave on April 22, 2013, 02:11:58 PM
I used to but not anymore.
why did you get out?
wasn't worth my time spent speculating
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 22, 2013, 02:15:25 PM
Almost everything I do is a stop/limit kind of order.
me too, but i think it's just sort of an emotional crutch, prolly makes no real difference.
I don't think so. I had some uranium miners when the tsunami hit Japan and those things tanked. Saved my ass big time. Only has to work once for you to use it every time.
Coincidentally I used to be into buying/shorting YRCW and EK back in the day. They were such volatile movers it was fun. Got really OCD on it for a while.
Post by: sys on April 22, 2013, 04:55:42 PM
wasn't worth my time spent speculating
if you're buying and holding, i don't see how the difference in time is terribly significant. maybe you're super thorough with your research, but still.
Post by: steve dave on April 22, 2013, 05:04:29 PM
Post by: sys on April 22, 2013, 05:09:07 PM
Do you buy and hold individual stocks sys? What's the average time you hold one?
usually until the reason i bought changes or my premise appears to have been falsified. i have no idea what the mean time has been. i've also sold a few things because i needed money or to reallocate.
i'd probably do better if i got out of stocks in times of market duress, but i've never done that. maybe at some point in the future i'll try to incorporate some market timing.
Post by: steve dave on April 22, 2013, 05:21:42 PM
Post by: sys on April 22, 2013, 05:26:40 PM
Not really investing though.
:confused:
Post by: steve dave on April 22, 2013, 05:39:38 PM
Not really investing though.
:confused:
It's speculation.
Post by: sys on April 22, 2013, 05:43:44 PM
Not really investing though.
:confused:
It's speculation.
:lol:
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 22, 2013, 11:20:28 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on April 22, 2013, 11:29:32 PM
Not really investing though.
:confused:
It's speculation.
:lol:
A true Omaha man if I've ever seen one. I love you steve dave.
Post by: steve dave on April 23, 2013, 08:15:15 AM
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 23, 2013, 08:36:39 AM
I bought a mutual fund last night from my Roth IRA. Turns out it's NOT a good idea to just let the money sit there in a money market. Thanks for nothing, ben ji :shakesfist:
Post by: steve dave on April 23, 2013, 08:44:55 AM
Turns out it's NOT a good idea to just let the money sit there in a money market. Thanks for nothing, ben ji :shakesfist:
I think sys and emo may argue with you on this
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 23, 2013, 08:50:35 AM
Turns out it's NOT a good idea to just let the money sit there in a money market. Thanks for nothing, ben ji :shakesfist:
I think sys and emo may argue with you on this
oh man burn :lol: im totally laughing at this now because i understand the difference. good one, steve dave.
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 23, 2013, 09:12:14 AM
Turns out it's NOT a good idea to just let the money sit there in a money market. Thanks for nothing, ben ji :shakesfist:
I think sys and emo may argue with you on this
If, 1) you're an index funder, and 2) the market is in a downward tend, MM or GI funds are fine. I short the market in those times though. You can make money as long as the market is moving decidedly in one direction, which it usually is.
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 23, 2013, 09:26:49 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12827752
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 23, 2013, 09:28:33 AM
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 23, 2013, 09:29:45 AM
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 23, 2013, 09:32:34 AM
Which institution?
whats with all the questions bro? just start guessing. fidelity...
Post by: ben ji on April 23, 2013, 09:51:25 AM
Post by: GCJayhawker on April 23, 2013, 09:54:02 AM
JANIX
I pick this. Ben Ji is your financial advisor after all.
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 23, 2013, 10:01:00 AM
JANIX
nope. and the one im in has a short-term leaving penalty thingy so doesnt sound like im getting into this anytime soon
Post by: ben ji on April 23, 2013, 11:03:47 AM
JANIX
nope. and the one im in has a short-term leaving penalty thingy so doesnt sound like im getting into this anytime soon
Spartan® Extended Market Index Fund - Investor Class
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 23, 2013, 11:23:39 AM
JANIX
nope. and the one im in has a short-term leaving penalty thingy so doesnt sound like im getting into this anytime soon
Spartan® Extended Market Index Fund - Investor Class
:lol: nope. its a pretty safe one, very boring actually. i wanted to do a biotech one that was kicking ass but thought better of it...
Post by: ben ji on April 23, 2013, 11:26:57 AM
JANIX
nope. and the one im in has a short-term leaving penalty thingy so doesnt sound like im getting into this anytime soon
Spartan® Extended Market Index Fund - Investor Class
:lol: nope. its a pretty safe one, very boring actually. i wanted to do a biotech one that was kicking ass but thought better of it...
Just saw that one today but then I realized I know absolutely nothing about biotech.
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 23, 2013, 11:38:33 AM
Just saw that one today but then I realized I know absolutely nothing about biotech.
Yeah, was up like 27% or something YTD. Biotech is pretty volatile so to start I have my money in small blend and mid-cap funds... I'll get more aggessive later.
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 23, 2013, 12:17:02 PM
Post by: chum1 on April 23, 2013, 12:19:50 PM
Post by: ben ji on April 24, 2013, 09:18:24 AM
They basically said everything we said in this thread about shitty 401k choices and how high expense ratio's cheat you out of hundreds of thousands of dollars over the life of your investment. Also pointed out that alot of people are idiots who dont save anything or dip into their 401k's multiple times throughout their lives then bitch when they have to work longer because they dont have any savings left.
Post by: steve dave on April 24, 2013, 09:21:18 AM
The PBS Frontline last night was all about 401k's and retirement.
They basically said everything we said in this thread about shitty 401k choices and how high expense ratio's cheat you out of hundreds of thousands of dollars over the life of your investment. Also pointed out that alot of people are idiots who dont save anything or dip into their 401k's multiple times throughout their lives then bitch when they have to work longer because they dont have any savings left.
yeah. a lot of people are idiots.
Post by: GCJayhawker on April 24, 2013, 09:34:59 AM
The PBS Frontline last night was all about 401k's and retirement.
They basically said everything we said in this thread about shitty 401k choices and how high expense ratio's cheat you out of hundreds of thousands of dollars over the life of your investment. Also pointed out that alot of people are idiots who dont save anything or dip into their 401k's multiple times throughout their lives then bitch when they have to work longer because they dont have any savings left.
yeah. a lot of people are idiots.
I've learned most people are idiots.
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 24, 2013, 09:40:41 AM
So honestly if you're even doing 401k or any retirement planning or saving you're ahead of the curve. I'd wager that the majority of friends my age don't even start thinking about this stuff until they start having kids. Kinda scary.
Post by: kostakio on April 24, 2013, 09:45:33 AM
Almost everything I do is a stop/limit kind of order.
me too, but i think it's just sort of an emotional crutch, prolly makes no real difference.
I don't think so. I had some uranium miners when the tsunami hit Japan and those things tanked. Saved my ass big time. Only has to work once for you to use it every time.
Coincidentally I used to be into buying/shorting YRCW and EK back in the day. They were such volatile movers it was fun. Got really OCD on it for a while.
Stops are good and all but they can't fully protect you. If the market gaps down a bunch at the open the stop isn't going to help you. A lot of young traders think they are assued of getting out at their stop price and that isn't the case.
I learned this lesson the hard way a couple of times back in the day. One of the reasons I got out of activley trading stocks. The big news that really moves a stock often doesn't happen during the neat little hours that the markets are open.
Post by: ben ji on April 24, 2013, 09:46:00 AM
Saw a FB post that said if you have no debt and $10 in our pocket then you're richer than 25% of Americans. :sdeek:
So honestly if you're even doing 401k or any retirement planning or saving you're ahead of the curve. I'd wager that the majority of friends my age don't even start thinking about this stuff until they start having kids. Kinda scary.
I've got a buddy who's graduated a couple of years ago(masters in ME), just the other day he mentioned to me that he was going to start contributing to his 401k. I looked at him like :surprised: :facepalm: :angry: and told him "Yeah, thats PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA"
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 24, 2013, 10:16:13 AM
Almost everything I do is a stop/limit kind of order.
me too, but i think it's just sort of an emotional crutch, prolly makes no real difference.
I don't think so. I had some uranium miners when the tsunami hit Japan and those things tanked. Saved my ass big time. Only has to work once for you to use it every time.
Coincidentally I used to be into buying/shorting YRCW and EK back in the day. They were such volatile movers it was fun. Got really OCD on it for a while.
Stops are good and all but they can't fully protect you. If the market gaps down a bunch at the open the stop isn't going to help you. A lot of young traders think they are assued of getting out at their stop price and that isn't the case.
I learned this lesson the hard way a couple of times back in the day. One of the reasons I got out of activley trading stocks. The big news that really moves a stock often doesn't happen during the neat little hours that the markets are open.
Well yes that's true, gap downs are a bitch. But for the most part when something gaps down I want out anyway. You can always protect yourself against gap downs with buy/limit orders at prices where you're a buyer. I don't do that, though. FWIW, setting stops is much easier than watching the market 24/7. It's the best option for working stiffs like myself.
Post by: LilSmokyMcIntyre on April 24, 2013, 12:00:03 PM
Use your money in this order. If you have more, move to the next. Its pretty easy.
401k to the match and no more
Max out Roth IRA
If you get a Stock discount option use it
Speculative investing
If you are actually using info in this thread then only invest in index funds. If you think you can do better than approx 8% annually, speculate with stocks. Never speculate with stocks $ you can't afford to lose bec you can. That's all you need to know.
Retire in early 50s regardless of your income level.
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 24, 2013, 12:35:48 PM
Post by: michigancat on April 24, 2013, 01:04:28 PM
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 24, 2013, 01:09:28 PM
Better than 25% of Americans :jerk:
:confused:
Post by: ben ji on April 24, 2013, 01:15:27 PM
I don't think people that don't know about this stuff are idiots. Just not very educated. Our schools are terrible at educating people about retirement planning, and so are the corporations offering 401k's to their employees and the corporations administering 401k's for employers.
Thats why gE is here to fill in the gaps!
But yes I agree with you. I took Finance classes at KSU but still had no real idea about how retirement investments worked in practice. I graduated, picked some funds from my 401k that looked like they had good returns and started contributing.
It wasn't until about a year ago that I started actually researching Roth IRA's/Index Funds/Exp ratio's etc and noticed that one of the 401k funds I was in had a 1.96 Exp ratio :surprised:
Post by: Johnny Wichita on April 24, 2013, 01:17:27 PM
Post by: Rams on April 24, 2013, 01:21:52 PM
I don't think people that don't know about this stuff are idiots. Just not very educated. Our schools are terrible at educating people about retirement planning, and so are the corporations offering 401k's to their employees and the corporations administering 401k's for employers.it's mind boggling to me that personal finance isn't part of every high school curriculum. I can't tell you how many doctors and other "well educated" people I've come across that know absolutely nothing about how money works. but if you think about it, if you do pre-med in college and then go onto med school you can complete your entire education without having ever taken a single course in basic finance. it's inexcusable.
Post by: michigancat on April 24, 2013, 01:23:53 PM
I don't think people that don't know about this stuff are idiots. Just not very educated. Our schools are terrible at educating people about retirement planning, and so are the corporations offering 401k's to their employees and the corporations administering 401k's for employers.it's mind boggling to me that personal finance isn't part of every high school curriculum. I can't tell you how many doctors and other "well educated" people I've come across that know absolutely nothing about how money works. but if you think about it, if you do pre-med in college and then go onto med school you can complete your entire education without having ever taken a single course in basic finance. it's inexcusable.
that's kind of my point. I never took a personal finance class. I also didn't invest in my 401k at my first job because I really didn't know any better. It's insanely basic, but hard to know about unless you do something like seek out the best way to invest your money.
Post by: ben ji on April 24, 2013, 01:28:49 PM
Not once did we cover anything about 401k's or retirement saving besides the basic Time Value of Money equations which was about 1-2 weeks of class.
Spent most of the time going over how to make a budget and how CC's are bad.
Post by: steve dave on April 24, 2013, 01:29:29 PM
I took "Intro to family finances" as a random elective my senior year.
Not once did we cover anything about 401k's or retirement saving besides the basic Time Value of Money equations which was about 1-2 weeks of class.
Spent most of the time going over how to make a budget and how CC's are bad.
my god
Post by: mocat on April 24, 2013, 01:33:12 PM
I just read the first few pages if this and realized the finance 450 should be a requirement to graduate. These are simple life skills that all people should know.
Use your money in this order. If you have more, move to the next. Its pretty easy.
401k to the match and no more
Max out Roth IRA
If you get a Stock discount option use it
Speculative investing
If you are actually using info in this thread then only invest in index funds. If you think you can do better than approx 8% annually, speculate with stocks. Never speculate with stocks $ you can't afford to lose bec you can. That's all you need to know.
Retire in early 50s regardless of your income level.
Seems like a great summary
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 24, 2013, 01:35:39 PM
Better than 25% of Americans :jerk:
:confused:
:kstategrad: bro. im already better than 99% of americans.
Post by: Kat Kid on April 24, 2013, 01:43:07 PM
I took "Intro to family finances" as a random elective my senior year.
Not once did we cover anything about 401k's or retirement saving besides the basic Time Value of Money equations which was about 1-2 weeks of class.
Spent most of the time going over how to make a budget and how CC's are bad.
my god
When you stop and think about who writes the textbooks you shudder a bit.
Post by: ben ji on April 24, 2013, 01:55:38 PM
I took "Intro to family finances" as a random elective my senior year.
Not once did we cover anything about 401k's or retirement saving besides the basic Time Value of Money equations which was about 1-2 weeks of class.
Spent most of the time going over how to make a budget and how CC's are bad.
my god
When you stop and think about who writes the textbooks you shudder a bit.
The class was taught by some a counselor/therapist or something, I dont think she was an actual professor. First day of class she tells us she wanted to teach this class because most divorces are due to money issues...I doubt she had any financial training.
The class was offered through the human scienes college, loaded with freshmen and soph girls :D
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 24, 2013, 02:04:52 PM
I took "Intro to family finances" as a random elective my senior year.
Not once did we cover anything about 401k's or retirement saving besides the basic Time Value of Money equations which was about 1-2 weeks of class.
Spent most of the time going over how to make a budget and how CC's are bad.
my god
When you stop and think about who writes the textbooks you shudder a bit.
The class was taught by some a counselor/therapist or something, I dont think she was an actual professor. First day of class she tells us she wanted to teach this class because most divorces are due to money issues...I doubt she had any financial training.
The class was offered through the human scienes college, loaded with freshmen and soph girls :D
So it might have been a good, informative class, except you had a boner the whole time. :fatty:
Post by: LilSmokyMcIntyre on April 24, 2013, 02:23:02 PM
I took "Intro to family finances" as a random elective my senior year.
Not once did we cover anything about 401k's or retirement saving besides the basic Time Value of Money equations which was about 1-2 weeks of class.
Spent most of the time going over how to make a budget and how CC's are bad.
my god
I think I know the class you were talking about. Ksu offers some fshs major about personal finance. As a finance person myself, I asked my friend in this major what his major was about. It seemed odd to me that our majors sounded so similar but in completely opposite schools. Anyway he said in his major they cared about the people and not the numbers. I laughed at him. I guess I have a different perspective on finances. Numbers should probably be considered.
Post by: chum1 on April 24, 2013, 02:34:27 PM
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 24, 2013, 05:57:52 PM
Prerequisite for saving: Having/realizing that you have money to save.
Aside from 401k, I think it was 3 years out of school before I realized I was blowing thousands of dollars on booze and whores.
Post by: 8manpick on April 24, 2013, 06:14:40 PM
The eff else would you spend it on?Prerequisite for saving: Having/realizing that you have money to save.
Aside from 401k, I think it was 3 years out of school before I realized I was blowing thousands of dollars on booze and whores.
*as a young single college grad
Post by: Phil Titola on April 24, 2013, 09:25:20 PM
Post by: GoodForAnother on April 24, 2013, 09:39:58 PM
Hook yourself up with an HSA if at all possible. True tax free in and out.
I have one. Pretty cool. Once I got to over $2k I was able to put some of it into an index fund.
Post by: The Whale on April 24, 2013, 11:20:05 PM
I took "Intro to family finances" as a random elective my senior year.
Not once did we cover anything about 401k's or retirement saving besides the basic Time Value of Money equations which was about 1-2 weeks of class.
Spent most of the time going over how to make a budget and how CC's are bad.
my god
I think I know the class you were talking about. Ksu offers some fshs major about personal finance. As a finance person myself, I asked my friend in this major what his major was about. It seemed odd to me that our majors sounded so similar but in completely opposite schools. Anyway he said in his major they cared about the people and not the numbers. I laughed at him. I guess I have a different perspective on finances. Numbers should probably be considered.
So they enroll them in Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University and pocket the difference in cost. Sounds like a good plan for the 2025 initiative.
Post by: steve dave on April 25, 2013, 06:03:19 AM
Hook yourself up with an HSA if at all possible. True tax free in and out.
Yeah, I max that thing out every year. I can pick between about 20 funds to invest mine.
Post by: slobber on April 25, 2013, 06:25:12 AM
If you make serious bank, max it out and then pay your medical expenses out of pocket.Hook yourself up with an HSA if at all possible. True tax free in and out.
Yeah, I max that thing out every year. I can pick between about 20 funds to invest mine.
Post by: steve dave on April 25, 2013, 07:15:13 AM
If you make serious bank, max it out and then pay your medical expenses out of pocket.Hook yourself up with an HSA if at all possible. True tax free in and out.
Yeah, I max that thing out every year. I can pick between about 20 funds to invest mine.
hmmmm, explain this to me. I mean, I normally have very minimal medical expenses so this thing has just grown over the years. And I can only write off medical expenses over my 7.5% floor. So I'd be giving up the tax benefit of having an HSA now for more growth and benefit later? that does make sense.
Post by: 8manpick on April 25, 2013, 07:22:45 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 25, 2013, 07:31:09 AM
My company's HSA is use it or lose it each year (by April 1 of next year)... Total scam right?
That's not an HSA, that's an FSA.
Post by: chum1 on April 25, 2013, 07:32:57 AM
My company's HSA is use it or lose it each year (by April 1 of next year)... Total scam right?
Yes, you have been the victim of a major scam.
Post by: Kat Kid on April 25, 2013, 07:34:29 AM
My company's HSA is use it or lose it each year (by April 1 of next year)... Total scam right?
Yes, you have been the victim of a major scam.
Chum why don't all businesses have HSA for their employees?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2
Post by: slobber on April 25, 2013, 07:46:54 AM
sd...he'll ask you to explain something to him and then, four sentences later, he is all, "Never-mind. Okay, thanks bye."If you make serious bank, max it out and then pay your medical expenses out of pocket.Hook yourself up with an HSA if at all possible. True tax free in and out.
Yeah, I max that thing out every year. I can pick between about 20 funds to invest mine.
hmmmm, explain this to me. I mean, I normally have very minimal medical expenses so this thing has just grown over the years. And I can only write off medical expenses over my 7.5% floor. So I'd be giving up the tax benefit of having an HSA now for more growth and benefit later? that does make sense.
Also, for those of you that don't make serious bank but are not married, or don't have any kids, or just don't spend crap on medical expenses, this works for you as well. I am just saying, you don't have to make sd type money to follow this advice.
Post by: steve dave on April 25, 2013, 07:48:48 AM
Post by: chum1 on April 25, 2013, 07:55:06 AM
My company's HSA is use it or lose it each year (by April 1 of next year)... Total scam right?
Yes, you have been the victim of a major scam.
Chum why don't all businesses have HSA for their employees?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2
Not sure at the moment. First stab is that it's just not a benefit they've chosen to offer. Usually, they come with a company match like 401k. I'll think about it some more.
Post by: chum1 on April 25, 2013, 08:02:29 AM
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 25, 2013, 08:25:29 AM
I just signed up for the most expensive medical plan with a low deductible because I didn't wanna risk it. The difference in price was pretty minimal since I don't have a family...
Post by: michigancat on April 25, 2013, 08:37:12 AM
Now I'm starting to think more clearly. HSAs are only available for those enrolled in High Deductible Health Plans. So, if an employer doesn't offer any HDHPs, they can't offer HSAs.
I've worked for like five or six companies and none have offered hdhp's. I could get one on my own, but the premium would be way more than the regular deductible plans offered by my employer.
Post by: chum1 on April 25, 2013, 08:44:09 AM
I'm a bit confused here as well. HSAs are better for people with low medical bills because you are only paying for the cheapest of medical plans and then your money is gaining interest and if you get really sick you end up paying out of your HSA for that high deductible?
I just signed up for the most expensive medical plan with a low deductible because I didn't wanna risk it. The difference in price was pretty minimal since I don't have a family...
Premiums for HDHPs are way cheaper overall. Almost always, if you're young and healthy, the HDHP will cost you a lot less. But if you can get a plan without a high deductible at the same cost, you should definitely do that.
Post by: steve dave on April 25, 2013, 08:47:20 AM
Post by: chum1 on April 25, 2013, 08:49:20 AM
Now I'm starting to think more clearly. HSAs are only available for those enrolled in High Deductible Health Plans. So, if an employer doesn't offer any HDHPs, they can't offer HSAs.
I've worked for like five or six companies and none have offered hdhp's. I could get one on my own, but the premium would be way more than the regular deductible plans offered by my employer.
Yeah, employers often pick up like 60-90% of the premium. Paying all by yourself sucks.
Post by: chum1 on April 25, 2013, 08:56:02 AM
My HDHP is free for me and my entire family. My company also puts in $1k at the beginning of each year for the HSA and I can contribute up to a bit over $5k which I do. My wife also gets coverage under her job through BCBS which I think you aren't supposed to do but they've never busted us on it.
One recent trend is that health plans are starting to tack on additional fees if your spouse is eligible for coverage through their employer. Fascinating info, huh?
Post by: ben ji on April 25, 2013, 08:57:04 AM
Post by: slobber on April 25, 2013, 09:00:55 AM
I talked it out to myself. still wanted confirmation that was what you meant.I was just saying that you are smart. :cheers:
Post by: slobber on April 25, 2013, 09:06:11 AM
I only have an FSA, no HSA :(.Use it. Just don't put too much money in it. Up until a couple of years ago you could by over the counter medicine with your FSA. Back when my company only offered an FSA, Mrs. dobber and I went out one year in December and bought $150 worth of crap (vitamins, aspirin, tylenol, cold medicine) just so we didn't lose the money.
Post by: ben ji on April 25, 2013, 09:08:42 AM
I only have an FSA, no HSA :(.Use it. Just don't put too much money in it. Up until a couple of years ago you could by over the counter medicine with your FSA. Back when my company only offered an FSA, Mrs. dobber and I went out one year in December and bought $150 worth of crap (vitamins, aspirin, tylenol, cold medicine) just so we didn't lose the money.
I put $200 in it last year but only used about $100 which was basically a couple dentists/eye doctor copays and some contacts.
I havent been to an actual doctor since I stopped playing high school sports :-/
Post by: 8manpick on April 25, 2013, 09:14:29 AM
Post by: chum1 on April 25, 2013, 09:16:46 AM
Post by: ben ji on April 25, 2013, 09:22:11 AM
It also used to be that you could use HSA money for OTC stuff. So, like in SD's case, his company would be giving him $1000 each year to buy stuff at Walgreens that he would have purchased anyway. That didn't last very long.
Yup, that ended about 3 years ago. My mom had a couple hundred on her card and pretty much cleaned walgreens out of tylenol and nyquil/dayquil. I still have boxes upon boxes that she gave me.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 25, 2013, 09:22:44 AM
I only have an FSA, no HSA :(.Use it. Just don't put too much money in it. Up until a couple of years ago you could by over the counter medicine with your FSA. Back when my company only offered an FSA, Mrs. dobber and I went out one year in December and bought $150 worth of crap (vitamins, aspirin, tylenol, cold medicine) just so we didn't lose the money.
I put $200 in it last year but only used about $100 which was basically a couple dentists/eye doctor copays and some contacts.
I havent been to an actual doctor since I stopped playing high school sports :-/
Yeah, you shouldn't be using the FSA at all, then.
Post by: slobber on April 25, 2013, 09:30:31 AM
sd's company is awesome. We only get $800 starter money for the HSA each year. It costs me about $2100/year in premiums for the family. It has a 20% co-pay with an out of pocket max of $3600 as long as I stay in network. I think the max contributions for HSA's this year, which is set by the government, is $5,400.
Post by: Rams on April 25, 2013, 09:33:57 AM
Okay, so FSAs seem kinda dumb. I put the minimum that I could in just to cover dentist and checkup type stuff.I used to work with some fsa plans. I've seen employees game the plan though. like one time a guy calculated the price of lasic surgery, "withheld" that amount through the fsa, had it done the first month of the new plan year and then quit his job the next month, effectively having his company pay for most of his lasic. :lol:
Post by: The Whale on April 25, 2013, 09:39:31 AM
Okay, so FSAs seem kinda dumb. I put the minimum that I could in just to cover dentist and checkup type stuff.I used to work with some fsa plans. I've seen employees game the plan though. like one time a guy calculated the price of lasic surgery, "withheld" that amount through the fsa, had it done the first month of the new plan year and then quit his job the next month, effectively having his company pay for most of his lasic. :lol:
I'm friends with someone who worked for a company that managed FSAs. She dealt with companies calling about that specific issue all of the time.
Company would be all: :curse:
While the employee would be: :eye:
Post by: slobber on April 25, 2013, 09:42:39 AM
Awesome. I unintentionally did this. When I left my other job, the money in the FSA was mine (I had already spent it), even though I hadn't contributed it all. The company puts all of the money in the FSA at the beginning of the year, then they take it out of your paycheck over the course of the year. Is it still done that way?Okay, so FSAs seem kinda dumb. I put the minimum that I could in just to cover dentist and checkup type stuff.I used to work with some fsa plans. I've seen employees game the plan though. like one time a guy calculated the price of lasic surgery, "withheld" that amount through the fsa, had it done the first month of the new plan year and then quit his job the next month, effectively having his company pay for most of his lasic. :lol:
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 25, 2013, 09:45:28 AM
Awesome. I unintentionally did this. When I left my other job, the money in the FSA was mine (I had already spent it), even though I hadn't contributed it all. The company puts all of the money in the FSA at the beginning of the year, then they take it out of your paycheck over the course of the year. Is it still done that way?Okay, so FSAs seem kinda dumb. I put the minimum that I could in just to cover dentist and checkup type stuff.I used to work with some fsa plans. I've seen employees game the plan though. like one time a guy calculated the price of lasic surgery, "withheld" that amount through the fsa, had it done the first month of the new plan year and then quit his job the next month, effectively having his company pay for most of his lasic. :lol:
That's how mine works.
Post by: michigancat on April 25, 2013, 09:45:40 AM
Post by: slobber on April 25, 2013, 09:53:11 AM
where do unused fsa contributions go?Back to the employer is what I always understood.
Post by: LilSmokyMcIntyre on April 25, 2013, 09:58:50 AM
My HDHP is free for me and my entire family. My company also puts in $1k at the beginning of each year for the HSA and I can contribute up to a bit over $5k which I do. My wife also gets coverage under her job through BCBS which I think you aren't supposed to do but they've never busted us on it.
Be careful with that. If you get audited they will bust you. Plus if the IRS auditor is a cat fan then he knows you know it's wrong and would get double busted.
Also, I do not believe health expenses that are paid for by an hsa are eligible for the 7.5% tax floor. You get the tax benefit upfront so you don't get it on the back end. Could be wrong but I don't think I am.
If you're young, relatively healthy then an hsa is great. Tax benefits and the fact that it will be used before you die plus you get investment options on it.
Post by: steve dave on April 25, 2013, 10:01:13 AM
Also, I do not believe health expenses that are paid for by an hsa are eligible for the 7.5% tax floor. You get the tax benefit upfront so you don't get it on the back end. Could be wrong but I don't think I am.
I know, our discussion was about putting the money in the HSA long term and paying health costs OOP which would bring in the 7.5% tax floor (which I have never gotten close to meeting) so I wouldn't be able to deduct them.
Post by: Mrs. Gooch on April 25, 2013, 10:03:29 AM
I only have an FSA, no HSA :(.Use it. Just don't put too much money in it. Up until a couple of years ago you could by over the counter medicine with your FSA. Back when my company only offered an FSA, Mrs. dobber and I went out one year in December and bought $150 worth of crap (vitamins, aspirin, tylenol, cold medicine) just so we didn't lose the money.
I put $200 in it last year but only used about $100 which was basically a couple dentists/eye doctor copays and some contacts.
I havent been to an actual doctor since I stopped playing high school sports :-/
Yeah, you shouldn't be using the FSA at all, then.
You can buy sunglasses with your FSA as long as they are "prescription ready" even if you don't actually get prescription lenses.
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on April 25, 2013, 10:03:53 AM
Post by: slobber on April 25, 2013, 10:04:49 AM
Even excluding the 7.5% tax floor, I still believe paying out of pocket now and allowing the HSA to grow tax free is a good plan when you have small annual out of pocket expenses.Also, I do not believe health expenses that are paid for by an hsa are eligible for the 7.5% tax floor. You get the tax benefit upfront so you don't get it on the back end. Could be wrong but I don't think I am.
I know, our discussion was about putting the money in the HSA long term and paying health costs OOP which would bring in the 7.5% tax floor (which I have never gotten close to meeting) so I wouldn't be able to deduct them.
Post by: LilSmokyMcIntyre on April 25, 2013, 10:10:06 AM
Even excluding the 7.5% tax floor, I still believe paying out of pocket now and allowing the HSA to grow tax free is a good plan when you have small annual out of pocket expenses.Also, I do not believe health expenses that are paid for by an hsa are eligible for the 7.5% tax floor. You get the tax benefit upfront so you don't get it on the back end. Could be wrong but I don't think I am.
I know, our discussion was about putting the money in the HSA long term and paying health costs OOP which would bring in the 7.5% tax floor (which I have never gotten close to meeting) so I wouldn't be able to deduct them.
Completely agree. Another bonus...if you do not max out your hsa and come tax time you realize that you could use a tax deduction (bec you know, you're a cat fan and its tough to track the gobs of $ you make), then you can put more into your hsa and count it as prior year contribution until April 15. Thus lowering the tax you owe Uncle Sam on your return.
Post by: kostakio on April 25, 2013, 10:16:06 AM
where do unused fsa contributions go?Back to the employer is what I always understood.
my company donates the money to charity. Not sure if they are allowed to keep it or not.
Post by: Fedor on April 25, 2013, 11:29:58 AM
Please elaborate, this fund would be several hundred thousand dollars at retirement if you max out the contributions every year. You can't pay premiums w/ it and most will likely have insurance even after retirement. I am having a hard time seeing how someone could spend all this money given the restrictions.My HDHP is free for me and my entire family. My company also puts in $1k at the beginning of each year for the HSA and I can contribute up to a bit over $5k which I do. My wife also gets coverage under her job through BCBS which I think you aren't supposed to do but they've never busted us on it.
Be careful with that. If you get audited they will bust you. Plus if the IRS auditor is a cat fan then he knows you know it's wrong and would get double busted.
Also, I do not believe health expenses that are paid for by an hsa are eligible for the 7.5% tax floor. You get the tax benefit upfront so you don't get it on the back end. Could be wrong but I don't think I am.
If you're young, relatively healthy then an hsa is great. Tax benefits and the fact that it will be used before you die plus you get investment options on it.
Post by: steve dave on April 25, 2013, 11:43:45 AM
Please elaborate, this fund would be several hundred thousand dollars at retirement if you max out the contributions every year. You can't pay premiums w/ it and most will likely have insurance even after retirement. I am having a hard time seeing how someone could spend all this money given the restrictions.My HDHP is free for me and my entire family. My company also puts in $1k at the beginning of each year for the HSA and I can contribute up to a bit over $5k which I do. My wife also gets coverage under her job through BCBS which I think you aren't supposed to do but they've never busted us on it.
Be careful with that. If you get audited they will bust you. Plus if the IRS auditor is a cat fan then he knows you know it's wrong and would get double busted.
Also, I do not believe health expenses that are paid for by an hsa are eligible for the 7.5% tax floor. You get the tax benefit upfront so you don't get it on the back end. Could be wrong but I don't think I am.
If you're young, relatively healthy then an hsa is great. Tax benefits and the fact that it will be used before you die plus you get investment options on it.
You can draw on it like any other investment after the age of 65. You don't have to use it for medical expenses. It essentially becomes an IRA.
Post by: LilSmokyMcIntyre on April 25, 2013, 11:44:13 AM
Please elaborate, this fund would be several hundred thousand dollars at retirement if you max out the contributions every year. You can't pay premiums w/ it and most will likely have insurance even after retirement. I am having a hard time seeing how someone could spend all this money given the restrictions.My HDHP is free for me and my entire family. My company also puts in $1k at the beginning of each year for the HSA and I can contribute up to a bit over $5k which I do. My wife also gets coverage under her job through BCBS which I think you aren't supposed to do but they've never busted us on it.
Be careful with that. If you get audited they will bust you. Plus if the IRS auditor is a cat fan then he knows you know it's wrong and would get double busted.
Also, I do not believe health expenses that are paid for by an hsa are eligible for the 7.5% tax floor. You get the tax benefit upfront so you don't get it on the back end. Could be wrong but I don't think I am.
If you're young, relatively healthy then an hsa is great. Tax benefits and the fact that it will be used before you die plus you get investment options on it.
Unless you're a super human you (or your family) will have health issues that will require out of pocket expenses. But if you are super human and you die with a healthy hsa then your spouse/beneficiary can use it. I'm not sure of the hsa rules regarding beneficiaries so it may even be able to be used for non health expenses/general purchases at that point. Wouldn't shock me.
FYI, health expenses are only going to increase. Furthermore there's no guarantees that hsa will be around forever. Just like there's no guarantees that Roth IRAs will be around forever.
Post by: slobber on April 25, 2013, 11:49:22 AM
Please elaborate, this fund would be several hundred thousand dollars at retirement if you max out the contributions every year. You can't pay premiums w/ it and most will likely have insurance even after retirement. I am having a hard time seeing how someone could spend all this money given the restrictions.My HDHP is free for me and my entire family. My company also puts in $1k at the beginning of each year for the HSA and I can contribute up to a bit over $5k which I do. My wife also gets coverage under her job through BCBS which I think you aren't supposed to do but they've never busted us on it.
Be careful with that. If you get audited they will bust you. Plus if the IRS auditor is a cat fan then he knows you know it's wrong and would get double busted.
Also, I do not believe health expenses that are paid for by an hsa are eligible for the 7.5% tax floor. You get the tax benefit upfront so you don't get it on the back end. Could be wrong but I don't think I am.
If you're young, relatively healthy then an hsa is great. Tax benefits and the fact that it will be used before you die plus you get investment options on it.
You don't know how much nursing home care costs, do you. Either way, it doesn't matter:
Fromhttp://www.hsaconnect.com/irs-and-treasury-hsa-publications/hsa-basics/what-happens-to-my-hsa-when-I-die.php (http://www.hsaconnect.com/irs-and-treasury-hsa-publications/hsa-basics/what-happens-to-my-hsa-when-I-die.php)
Quote
If your spouse becomes the owner of the account, your spouse can use it as if it were their own HSA. If you are not married, the account will no longer be treated as an HSA upon your death. The account will pass to your beneficiary or become part of your estate (and be subject to any applicable taxes).There isn't much bad that can be found in investing in an HSA.
Post by: ben ji on April 26, 2013, 09:44:50 AM
Index funds are basically a collection of stocks meant to mimic the movement of the a certain index(SP500, Dow, etc) correct?
Lets say right now only 10%(Completely made up percent) of individual investors actually buy Index funds now but the gospel is spreading and soon 50% of individual investors are buying index funds instead of mutual funds.
Wouldnt this lead to the stocks in the index funds being overvalued(and then crashing) compared to other stocks not included in the Index's?
Do Index funds adjust for this?
Post by: steve dave on April 26, 2013, 09:48:23 AM
So I was thinking about the increasing popularity of Index funds the other day and have some questions....
Index funds are basically a collection of stocks meant to mimic the movement of the a certain index(SP500, Dow, etc) correct?
Lets say right now only 10%(Completely made up percent) of individual investors actually buy Index funds now but the gospel is spreading and soon 50% of individual investors are buying index funds instead of mutual funds.
Wouldnt this lead to the stocks in the index funds being overvalued(and then crashing) compared to other stocks not included in the Index's?
Do Index funds adjust for this?
my initial response is "wut?" but the short answer is "no"
Post by: ben ji on April 26, 2013, 09:50:27 AM
So I was thinking about the increasing popularity of Index funds the other day and have some questions....
Index funds are basically a collection of stocks meant to mimic the movement of the a certain index(SP500, Dow, etc) correct?
Lets say right now only 10%(Completely made up percent) of individual investors actually buy Index funds now but the gospel is spreading and soon 50% of individual investors are buying index funds instead of mutual funds.
Wouldnt this lead to the stocks in the index funds being overvalued(and then crashing) compared to other stocks not included in the Index's?
Do Index funds adjust for this?
my initial response is "wut?" but the short answer is "no"
No they dont adjust for this or No this though process makes no sense?
Post by: steve dave on April 26, 2013, 09:57:12 AM
So I was thinking about the increasing popularity of Index funds the other day and have some questions....
Index funds are basically a collection of stocks meant to mimic the movement of the a certain index(SP500, Dow, etc) correct?
Lets say right now only 10%(Completely made up percent) of individual investors actually buy Index funds now but the gospel is spreading and soon 50% of individual investors are buying index funds instead of mutual funds.
Wouldnt this lead to the stocks in the index funds being overvalued(and then crashing) compared to other stocks not included in the Index's?
Do Index funds adjust for this?
my initial response is "wut?" but the short answer is "no"
No they dont adjust for this or No this though process makes no sense?
in your scenario people are moving from mutual funds to index funds. the same securities in those mutual funds are held in the index funds. they just aren't actively managed and charged.
index funds hold groups of stocks across all ranges, industries, markets, etc. and not just stocks. bonds, real estate investments, etc. the investors moving into them are moving away from either individually owning these assets or owning them in another fund of some sort.
I guess I still don't 100% understand what you are asking but I'm pretty confident the answer is "no".
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 26, 2013, 10:02:17 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 26, 2013, 10:03:30 AM
Post by: ben ji on April 26, 2013, 10:45:23 AM
Post by: ben ji on May 03, 2013, 10:11:42 AM
enough with the market timing fight. anyone invest in individual stocks? to me, that's the fun part.
I have a few. Mostly just for my own enjoyment, not really a way to strike it rich or anything unless I get lucky.
This.
Currently own some YRC stock, Bought in over the summer for around $6.45 per share and it is currently at 6.75. Was up over 8.00 a share a couple weeks ago but has had some crazy fluctuations both good and bad.
Back in 2010 I read an atricle about Macau overtaking Vegas and the worldwide gambling capital. Looked up the companies that had casino's based in Macaua and its basically just Wynn and Las Vegas Sands. Was going to buy some LVS stock for $28 but I was a new grad and didnt have any money. LVS us currently over $50. :(
:D
Post by: sys on May 11, 2013, 04:31:34 PM
Post by: steve dave on May 11, 2013, 05:32:08 PM
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/investment-ideas/strategy-lab/value-investing/want-to-beat-the-pros-and-thrash-the-market-index-hire-a-robotic-monkey/article11559550/
stud market timing monkey robot
Post by: ChiComCat on May 11, 2013, 05:40:07 PM
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/investment-ideas/strategy-lab/value-investing/want-to-beat-the-pros-and-thrash-the-market-index-hire-a-robotic-monkey/article11559550/
stud market timing monkey robot
But what are the fees of this stud market timing monkey robot? The article just assumes you get them for free
Post by: steve dave on May 11, 2013, 07:12:13 PM
Post by: sys on May 12, 2013, 05:38:41 PM
too lazy to try and calculate it, but i'd guess the break even point on fees would be somewhere around 50k.
Post by: GoodForAnother on May 13, 2013, 02:19:13 PM
My fiancée is a pt so once we're married I'll just hop onto whatever ridiculous healthcare plan the hospital she gets a job at offers.
Post by: sys on May 13, 2013, 02:40:20 PM
i mean it's close, but the benefit it pretty measly compared to the risk of spending more.
Post by: Phil Titola on May 13, 2013, 06:59:42 PM
https://www.lendingclub.com
Post by: GoodForAnother on May 13, 2013, 09:53:29 PM
Post by: wetwillie on May 13, 2013, 10:03:17 PM
Anybody trying this?
https://www.lendingclub.com
Not legal in KS, I'm sure you can get around it but probably a pain.
Post by: meow meow on May 13, 2013, 10:04:05 PM
did anyone mention http://betterment.com itt? I used it for a year or so with good results before moving all my investments over to Schwab. really good for your first time as there are no minimums and it's super easy, just set your aggressiveness and they do the rest. also cheap.
If its so great why did you stop using it?
Post by: GoodForAnother on May 13, 2013, 10:33:33 PM
did anyone mention http://betterment.com itt? I used it for a year or so with good results before moving all my investments over to Schwab. really good for your first time as there are no minimums and it's super easy, just set your aggressiveness and they do the rest. also cheap.
If its so great why did you stop using it?
just decided to move everything to one place. it's not very flexible really either and I like knowing where my money actually is. but it was good for just starting off.
Post by: GCJayhawker on May 15, 2013, 09:15:45 AM
http://lifehacker.com/pay-off-student-loans-or-start-investing-whats-the-be-505698915
Post by: ben ji on May 15, 2013, 09:40:37 AM
Anyways he works in IT and usually works from home spending alot of his time daytrading.
So yesterday I stop by my parents house on the way to work to grab some stuff and start talking to him. He tells me to keep an eye on a certain stock, forgot the name, and that it was up 15cents on pretrading. I ask him how much he has invested in it and he tells me "Alot of my retirement money", all in this one stock I ask, "Yep".
I called him an idiot and told him that a 55yr old man shouldnt be putting that much emphasis on one stock. He looked at me with puppy dog eyes and said "But its up 15cents on pretrading"
Post by: Emo EMAW on May 15, 2013, 09:43:53 AM
Post by: raquetcat on May 15, 2013, 11:39:08 AM
Ole ben ji's dad has always fancied himself as an ivestment guy/day trader. When I was growing up he would always ask me and my siblings if we wanted to invest some money in the stocks he was buying but they were all stupid penny stock stuff and I stopped after losing a couple hundred dollars. The only stock I can actually remember him buying was for a new TV network call "Queer TV" in the early 2000's, never knew if it was an actually company but it does strike me as strange that a right wing rush limbaugh devotee would invest in "Queer TV"
Anyways he works in IT and usually works from home spending alot of his time daytrading.
So yesterday I stop by my parents house on the way to work to grab some stuff and start talking to him. He tells me to keep an eye on a certain stock, forgot the name, and that it was up 15cents on pretrading. I ask him how much he has invested in it and he tells me "Alot of my retirement money", all in this one stock I ask, "Yep".
I called him an idiot and told him that a 55yr old man shouldnt be putting that much emphasis on one stock. He looked at me with puppy dog eyes and said "But its up 15cents on pretrading"
In a couple years Ben ji is going to start a thread about having your parents move in with you because they lost all their retirement money trading penny stocks. T's and p's Ben ji!
Post by: slucat on May 23, 2013, 09:50:55 AM
Post by: Johnny Wichita on May 23, 2013, 10:00:31 AM
looks like a 5-10% seasonal drop in the market is coming, planning on holding onto my stocks, but thinking of dumping my index fund...is now the time? :dunno:
short everything. :runaway:
Post by: scottwildcat on May 23, 2013, 10:01:23 AM
looks like a 5-10% seasonal drop in the market is coming, planning on holding onto my stocks, but thinking of dumping my index fund...is now the time? :dunno::dubious:
Post by: steve dave on May 23, 2013, 10:02:39 AM
Post by: Emo EMAW on May 23, 2013, 10:05:06 AM
Post by: steve dave on May 23, 2013, 10:07:22 AM
Post by: slucat on May 23, 2013, 10:10:37 AM
Post by: Johnny Wichita on May 23, 2013, 10:15:49 AM
Post by: slucat on May 23, 2013, 10:18:42 AM
Sell every stock you own and never buy one again.
:dubious:
Post by: Emo EMAW on May 23, 2013, 10:38:35 AM
Yes I realize things are at record highs…I’ve made some $$ while riding this for the last several months, however, typically the market pulls back in the summer and is due for a correction. As I understood it from this thread and other information, index funds go with the market, no reason to buy and hold and ride it back down.
I'm probably one of the only ones in this thread that is fervently against the buy and hold strategy. But others are certainly right about timing. You can get shaken out of positions pretty easily if your stops are too tight.
Will we see enough movement to warrant selling with a plan to buy back? Right now the S&P is 6% over 90DMA, and 10% over 180DMA. Seems too soon to sell stuff, especially considering the fundamentals. Maybe thin positions you want out of anyway and wait for a good buy point on stuff you want. I'm wait and see and moving up stops. But if we get down to 150 or 180DMA, I'm shorting a bunch of stuff.
Post by: ben ji on May 23, 2013, 10:44:16 AM
Not really trying to time anything, just something I've been meaning to do for a while.
Post by: slucat on May 23, 2013, 10:45:03 AM
Yes I realize things are at record highs…I’ve made some $$ while riding this for the last several months, however, typically the market pulls back in the summer and is due for a correction. As I understood it from this thread and other information, index funds go with the market, no reason to buy and hold and ride it back down.
I'm probably one of the only ones in this thread that is fervently against the buy and hold strategy. But others are certainly right about timing. You can get shaken out of positions pretty easily if your stops are too tight.
Will we see enough movement to warrant selling with a plan to buy back? Right now the S&P is 6% over 90DMA, and 10% over 180DMA. Seems too soon to sell stuff, especially considering the fundamentals. Maybe thin positions you want out of anyway and wait for a good buy point on stuff you want. I'm wait and see and moving up stops. But if we get down to 150 or 180DMA, I'm shorting a bunch of stuff.
Thanks, of course I'll reinvest, but it would be nice to cash in...take my profit and put in again this summer after the pull back...I'll keep all my stocks, they are paying dividends after all. This is just my play account, not my retirement. I'll wait to see if the market does another run up before I sell off the index fund; I'm up over 40% on it...I can afford a small pull back and still come out ahead.
Post by: sys on May 23, 2013, 07:41:42 PM
and, if you're doing this in a taxable account, you're going to have to hurdle the taxes you create for yourself before you even get back to even.
Post by: Emo EMAW on May 23, 2013, 07:49:34 PM
Post by: sys on May 23, 2013, 08:05:20 PM
Question: is doing anything other than buying and holding considered "timing the market?"
if you buy or sell because you're trying to time the market, then it is. if not, then it's not.
Post by: ben ji on May 28, 2013, 10:18:58 AM
His family is from Versailles and his gpa was one of the original developers of the Ozarks. Back in the day old Bud Walton(Brother of sam) was going door to door in Versailles selling walmart stock/raising capital, knocked on his gpa's door and gave him the pitch but got shot down.
Apparently Bud's widow still lives in a non descript house in versailles despite being worth hundreds of millions.
Post by: lopakman on June 12, 2013, 04:44:21 PM
:crossfingers:
Post by: raquetcat on June 12, 2013, 09:45:32 PM
Random investing story I heard this weekend from my bro down at the Ozarks.I love stories like that. I had a great uncle who was a hermit, no wife, no kids, but apparently he was an investing guru. The guy was so cheap he wore clothes with holes in them. My grandparents tell a story about when he got new carpet in his house he just had the carpet layers put the new carpet directly over the old carpet so he didn't have to buy a new carpet pad. The guy died with millions and left it all to the local public library.
His family is from Versailles and his gpa was one of the original developers of the Ozarks. Back in the day old Bud Walton(Brother of sam) was going door to door in Versailles selling walmart stock/raising capital, knocked on his gpa's door and gave him the pitch but got shot down.
Apparently Bud's widow still lives in a non descript house in versailles despite being worth hundreds of millions.
Post by: sys on June 12, 2013, 09:53:18 PM
I love stories like that. I had a great uncle who was a hermit, no wife, no kids, but apparently he was an investing guru. The guy was so cheap he wore clothes with holes in them. My grandparents tell a story about when he got new carpet in his house he just had the carpet layers put the new carpet directly over the old carpet so he didn't have to buy a new carpet pad. The guy died with millions and left it all to the local public library.
you don't need outsized returns if you don't spend your income.
Post by: raquetcat on June 12, 2013, 10:04:15 PM
Don't ruin a childhood folk hero for me sys, ok?I love stories like that. I had a great uncle who was a hermit, no wife, no kids, but apparently he was an investing guru. The guy was so cheap he wore clothes with holes in them. My grandparents tell a story about when he got new carpet in his house he just had the carpet layers put the new carpet directly over the old carpet so he didn't have to buy a new carpet pad. The guy died with millions and left it all to the local public library.
you don't need outsized returns if you don't spend your income.
Post by: sys on June 12, 2013, 10:18:08 PM
Post by: raquetcat on June 12, 2013, 10:32:44 PM
didn't mean to. plus, he left his money to a public library, so he was a great man.
:thumbs:
Post by: sys on July 26, 2013, 03:01:48 PM
https://www.fidelity.com/learning-center/etf/etfs-tax-efficiency
Post by: Kat Kid on July 26, 2013, 04:38:17 PM
i just learned this. should be of interest to you low-cost index investors.
https://www.fidelity.com/learning-center/etf/etfs-tax-efficiency
That is true but probably misleading. Most of the investors in this thread are exclusively investing in tax sheltered accounts (401k, 403b or IRAs). For the few that aren't, they should run the numbers on the cost of opening and maintaining a brokerage account in the first place. They may well exceed any potential tax benefits that would be gained by investing in ETF. For example, Vanguard requires you to have a brokerage account to buy/sell ETF's with them. Now they don't charge a commission but there are fees associated with each trade and the opening and maintenance of the brokerage account.
So if you are taking a buy and hold strategy in a taxable investing account (and you already max your 401k past employer match AND your IRA AND you don't have a good HSA to stash this cash or have maxed that out) then it might be a better option assuming you have enough to make the fees a smaller concern than the tax liability.
Proceed with caution friends.
Post by: sys on July 26, 2013, 05:27:33 PM
transaction costs (including any account maintenance fees) are usually equal or lower for etfs vs mutual funds.
Post by: sys on July 26, 2013, 05:57:55 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on July 26, 2013, 08:45:12 PM
on a semi-related note - does anyone have a discount brokerage they'd recommend for fees and flexibility? i've been toying with opening an ib account for options and foreign markets, but i'm not sure i'd be active enough to justify the maintenance fees (actually, i'm pretty sure i wouldn't be).
Yeah see my post above.
Post by: sys on July 26, 2013, 09:06:18 PM
Yeah see my post above.
i didn't see any recommendos in your post.
Post by: steve dave on July 26, 2013, 09:39:31 PM
Post by: sys on July 26, 2013, 09:43:00 PM
sys, I think commodities are where it's at
not for me.
Post by: kostakio on July 26, 2013, 11:02:13 PM
on a semi-related note - does anyone have a discount brokerage they'd recommend for fees and flexibility? i've been toying with opening an ib account for options and foreign markets, but i'm not sure i'd be active enough to justify the maintenance fees (actually, i'm pretty sure i wouldn't be).
Fidelity doesn't charge any fees to open or maintain an account.
Post by: sys on July 26, 2013, 11:59:15 PM
Fidelity doesn't charge any fees to open or maintain an account.
that's the only viable alternative to ib for access to foreign markets that i've seen. ib has lower trading fees, but if you don't hit the volume marks, you have the maintenance fees. fidelity has higher fees and isn't as flexible, but no maintenance fees.
fidelity probably makes more sense for me right now. gotta admit, ib would feed my ego a little.
Post by: hemmy on July 27, 2013, 12:08:49 AM
i just learned this. should be of interest to you low-cost index investors.
https://www.fidelity.com/learning-center/etf/etfs-tax-efficiency
That is true but probably misleading. Most of the investors in this thread are exclusively investing in tax sheltered accounts (401k, 403b or IRAs). For the few that aren't, they should run the numbers on the cost of opening and maintaining a brokerage account in the first place. They may well exceed any potential tax benefits that would be gained by investing in ETF. For example, Vanguard requires you to have a brokerage account to buy/sell ETF's with them. Now they don't charge a commission but there are fees associated with each trade and the opening and maintenance of the brokerage account.
So if you are taking a buy and hold strategy in a taxable investing account (and you already max your 401k past employer match AND your IRA AND you don't have a good HSA to stash this cash or have maxed that out) then it might be a better option assuming you have enough to make the fees a smaller concern than the tax liability.
Proceed with caution friends.
With Scottrade, its $7 per trade, and the only fees are the fees charged by the funds themselves. There is no cost to having a brokerage account, you just lose out on the tax benefits. My Roth IRA & brokerage account are both through Scottrade and the two accounts are basically identical - access to tons of ETFs should you so choose.
My investments are quite different though across the two, and in my IRA I make the max contribution in January and invest then, and then leave it alone pretty much.
Post by: sys on July 27, 2013, 01:02:50 AM
With Scottrade, its $7 per trade, and the only fees are the fees charged by the funds themselves. There is no cost to having a brokerage account.
i use scottrade currently. no complaints, it's just too limited for some things i want to invest in the future.
Post by: Kat Kid on July 27, 2013, 09:47:38 AM
i just learned this. should be of interest to you low-cost index investors.
https://www.fidelity.com/learning-center/etf/etfs-tax-efficiency
That is true but probably misleading. Most of the investors in this thread are exclusively investing in tax sheltered accounts (401k, 403b or IRAs). For the few that aren't, they should run the numbers on the cost of opening and maintaining a brokerage account in the first place. They may well exceed any potential tax benefits that would be gained by investing in ETF. For example, Vanguard requires you to have a brokerage account to buy/sell ETF's with them. Now they don't charge a commission but there are fees associated with each trade and the opening and maintenance of the brokerage account.
So if you are taking a buy and hold strategy in a taxable investing account (and you already max your 401k past employer match AND your IRA AND you don't have a good HSA to stash this cash or have maxed that out) then it might be a better option assuming you have enough to make the fees a smaller concern than the tax liability.
Proceed with caution friends.
With Scottrade, its $7 per trade, and the only fees are the fees charged by the funds themselves. There is no cost to having a brokerage account, you just lose out on the tax benefits. My Roth IRA & brokerage account are both through Scottrade and the two accounts are basically identical - access to tons of ETFs should you so choose.
My investments are quite different though across the two, and in my IRA I make the max contribution in January and invest then, and then leave it alone pretty much.
That is good info.
Post by: sys on July 27, 2013, 12:34:01 PM
if you transfer in a significant amount of money, a lot will pay you to open and maintain an account.
Post by: Emo EMAW on July 27, 2013, 05:17:28 PM
With Scottrade, its $7 per trade, and the only fees are the fees charged by the funds themselves. There is no cost to having a brokerage account.
i use scottrade currently. no complaints, it's just too limited for some things i want to invest in the future.
Is the interface still complete crap? Maybe that was First Trade. One of those with two t's in the middle. My brokerage account is with e*trade and it's lke $10 per trade, no other fees. Kinda high but I don't trade a lot unless things are really volatile, more investing.
Post by: steve dave on July 27, 2013, 05:29:59 PM
Post by: Emo EMAW on July 27, 2013, 05:32:53 PM
Post by: hemmy on July 27, 2013, 05:36:49 PM
Post by: sys on July 28, 2013, 12:39:18 AM
Is the interface still complete crap?
honestly, it isn't likely that i'd notice any difference between a complete crap interface and one that's completely badass. it's been easy for me to do whatever i've wanted to do that that is possible to do with their accounts, if that gives you any info on their interface quality.
if you're thinking of switching your whole account, i'd prolly just go bonus hunting. i haven't looked at competing bonuses, but fidelity will give you decent cash or miles.
Post by: WonderMeal on July 29, 2013, 11:21:44 PM
If there's two things WonderMeal defends wholeheartedly, it's the KSU Cats Purple University and the choice to use Schwab for all banking/investments.
Especially if you're new to investing (which I know Sys is not), Schwab's customer service is superb at taking you from pud to stud.
Post by: sys on July 29, 2013, 11:49:47 PM
Post by: WonderMeal on September 17, 2013, 07:23:09 AM
This post on the Washington Post's Wonkblog is pretty much all you need. All the financial advice you'll ever need on a note card!
Full article below the pic.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fblogs%2Fwonkblog%2Ffiles%2F2013%2F09%2Fpollack-card-800x600.jpg&hash=2d651dccf5d1a7f96bfa6625434c1d3688453d4c)
Quote from: Wonkblog
Think managing your finances has to be complicated? Wonkblog contributor (and UC Chicago social scientist) Harold Pollack doesn't. After a talk with personal finance expert Helaine Olen, Pollack managed to write down pretty much everything you need to know on a 4x6 index card. And it would probably fit on a 3x5 index card if you really crammed (that last point, for instance, is probably not strictly necessary for managing your money). He explains:
The card came out of an RBC chat I had with Helaine Olen regarding what I view as the financial industry’s basic dilemma: The best investment advice fits on an index card. A commenter, Alex M, asked for the actual index card. Although I was originally speaking in metaphor, I grabbed a pen and one of my daughter's note cards, scribbled this out in maybe three minutes, snapped a picture with my iPhone, and the rest was history. (Here's the picture and post.)
Pollack's right. Follow these principles and you'll be in much, much, much better shape than most Americans — or most anyone. And all it will cost you is $2.20 for a pack of index cards — and you'll have 99 of them left over.
It's really hard to be poor (see Pollack's amazing interview on how being poor changes the way people think for more on that). But the lesson here is that once you have an income that you can live off of and save a little bit besides, managing your finances shouldn't be all that hard. The people making it complicated are often trying to make money off of you.
:kstategrad:
Post by: steve dave on September 17, 2013, 07:28:34 AM
Quote
put $50k in the bank er' month
Post by: ksucrcoop on September 17, 2013, 09:08:47 AM
TTHOTUC, Ben ji, et al-
This post on the Washington Post's Wonkblog is pretty much all you need. All the financial advice you'll ever need on a note card!
Full article below the pic.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fblogs%2Fwonkblog%2Ffiles%2F2013%2F09%2Fpollack-card-800x600.jpg&hash=2d651dccf5d1a7f96bfa6625434c1d3688453d4c)Quote from: Wonkblog
Think managing your finances has to be complicated? Wonkblog contributor (and UC Chicago social scientist) Harold Pollack doesn't. After a talk with personal finance expert Helaine Olen, Pollack managed to write down pretty much everything you need to know on a 4x6 index card. And it would probably fit on a 3x5 index card if you really crammed (that last point, for instance, is probably not strictly necessary for managing your money). He explains:
The card came out of an RBC chat I had with Helaine Olen regarding what I view as the financial industry’s basic dilemma: The best investment advice fits on an index card. A commenter, Alex M, asked for the actual index card. Although I was originally speaking in metaphor, I grabbed a pen and one of my daughter's note cards, scribbled this out in maybe three minutes, snapped a picture with my iPhone, and the rest was history. (Here's the picture and post.)
Pollack's right. Follow these principles and you'll be in much, much, much better shape than most Americans — or most anyone. And all it will cost you is $2.20 for a pack of index cards — and you'll have 99 of them left over.
It's really hard to be poor (see Pollack's amazing interview on how being poor changes the way people think for more on that). But the lesson here is that once you have an income that you can live off of and save a little bit besides, managing your finances shouldn't be all that hard. The people making it complicated are often trying to make money off of you.
:kstategrad:
most mutual fund are crap. some arent, but you can balance risk just as good as a mutual fund on your own - without the fees associated and without paying taxes each yr on any gains.
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on September 17, 2013, 09:37:55 AM
Post by: steve dave on September 17, 2013, 09:39:49 AM
I might go all-in on Twitter's IPO
oh, good plan dumbass.
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on September 17, 2013, 09:45:27 AM
I might go all-in on Twitter's IPO
oh, good plan dumbass.
I'm talking like every cent to my name plus a loan from my grandma.
Post by: slobber on September 17, 2013, 10:07:39 AM
Grandmother hater outed.I might go all-in on Twitter's IPO
oh, good plan dumbass.
I'm talking like every cent to my name plus a loan from my grandma.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on September 17, 2013, 10:08:50 AM
#doit #surethingI might go all-in on Twitter's IPO
oh, good plan dumbass.
I'm talking like every cent to my name plus a loan from my grandma.
Post by: Johnny Wichita on September 17, 2013, 10:12:42 AM
I might go all-in on Twitter's IPO
oh, good plan dumbass.
I'm talking like every cent to my name plus a loan from my grandma.
Short it for the first month, then buy as much as you can.
Post by: Johnny Wichita on September 17, 2013, 10:13:46 AM
Post by: Rams on September 17, 2013, 11:26:49 AM
yes because it's guaranteed to follow the same trajectory as facebook.I might go all-in on Twitter's IPO
oh, good plan dumbass.
I'm talking like every cent to my name plus a loan from my grandma.
Short it for the first month, then buy as much as you can.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on September 17, 2013, 11:31:18 AM
in theory thats a great idea. in reality you are both dumbassesyes because it's guaranteed to follow the same trajectory as facebook.I might go all-in on Twitter's IPO
oh, good plan dumbass.
I'm talking like every cent to my name plus a loan from my grandma.
Short it for the first month, then buy as much as you can.
Post by: EMAWmeister on September 17, 2013, 11:39:43 AM
Post by: Johnny Wichita on September 17, 2013, 11:41:44 AM
in theory thats a great idea. in reality you are both dumbasses
lol
Post by: yoga-like_abana on September 17, 2013, 11:43:37 AM
Are most financial advisors not held to a fiduciary standard? :confused:people tend to look out for there best interest.
Post by: mocat on September 17, 2013, 11:50:06 AM
Quote from: stevedave
New to investing? Just put $50,000 into your bank account every month!
:lol:
Post by: EMAWmeister on September 17, 2013, 11:51:53 AM
Are most financial advisors not held to a fiduciary standard? :confused:people tend to look out for there best interest.
Seems to me like the best interest of an advisor would be to do what is best for the client, thus keeping the client's business.
Post by: Rams on September 17, 2013, 11:52:24 AM
Are most financial advisors not held to a fiduciary standard? :confused:they aren't. and it's something that needs to change.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on September 17, 2013, 11:57:37 AM
It would seem that way. But when it comes to sales is it really that way?Are most financial advisors not held to a fiduciary standard? :confused:people tend to look out for there best interest.
Seems to me like the best interest of an advisor would be to do what is best for the client, thus keeping the client's business.
Post by: EMAWmeister on September 17, 2013, 11:59:14 AM
It would seem that way. But when it comes to sales is it really that way?Are most financial advisors not held to a fiduciary standard? :confused:people tend to look out for there best interest.
Seems to me like the best interest of an advisor would be to do what is best for the client, thus keeping the client's business.
I mean unless you were desperate for immediate funds, it should be. You're going to make more money off of a repeat customer than off of a larger commission.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on September 17, 2013, 12:04:07 PM
yeah, that wasn't your question though.It would seem that way. But when it comes to sales is it really that way?Are most financial advisors not held to a fiduciary standard? :confused:people tend to look out for there best interest.
Seems to me like the best interest of an advisor would be to do what is best for the client, thus keeping the client's business.
I mean unless you were desperate for immediate funds, it should be. You're going to make more money off of a repeat customer than off of a larger commission.
Post by: wetwillie on September 17, 2013, 12:06:13 PM
Are most financial advisors not held to a fiduciary standard? :confused:people tend to look out for there best interest.
Seems to me like the best interest of an advisor would be to do what is best for the client, thus keeping the client's business.
lol
Post by: kim carnes on September 17, 2013, 12:24:12 PM
yes because it's guaranteed to follow the same trajectory as facebook.I might go all-in on Twitter's IPO
oh, good plan dumbass.
I'm talking like every cent to my name plus a loan from my grandma.
Short it for the first month, then buy as much as you can.
it probably will
Post by: yoga-like_abana on September 17, 2013, 12:33:13 PM
Post by: slucat on September 17, 2013, 12:56:09 PM
Post by: Rams on September 17, 2013, 12:59:25 PM
definitely re-iterates rams being one of the dumbest people on the boardI can't tell if you:
A: missed my sarcasm
B: got my sarcasm but disagree with me
C: are just being an bad person for no reason :don'tcare:
Post by: mocat on September 17, 2013, 02:22:19 PM
definitely re-iterates rams being one of the dumbest people on the boardI can't tell if you:
A: missed my sarcasm
B: got my sarcasm but disagree with me
C: are just being an bad person for no reason :don'tcare:
definitely re-iterates rams being one of the dumbest people on the board
Post by: steve dave on September 19, 2013, 07:02:10 AM
Quote from: fed
we're going to push back the easing by, like, a month
Quote from: er'one
BUY ER'THING!
:lol:
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on October 03, 2013, 04:33:50 PM
Quote
Here's what we now know about Twitter and its impending initial public offering:
It will trade under the symbol TWTR
The IPO will raise $1 billion
Jack Dorsey owns 4.9 percent of the company, Ev Williams 12 percent, and CEO Dick Costolo 1.6 percent. Poor Dick! Just kidding, that's still a lot.
Twitter is not profitable. It lost almost $80 million in the first six months of 2013, and has never been profitable
Twitter currently has 215 million monthly active users—less than expected.
CEO Dick Costolo draws an annual salary of $200,000, though it was just reduced to $14,000 this summer—he also made about $10 million in stock, so good deal overall.
None of Twitter's executives wrote a letter in the S-1 indicating why anyone should care.
Twitter claims only 5% of its accounts are fake, which seems very, very low.
Woooooooooof! Never mind, I'll take my monies elsewhere.
Post by: Catchacold on October 04, 2013, 12:56:45 PM
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on October 04, 2013, 01:34:06 PM
Post by: sys on October 04, 2013, 09:47:37 PM
Post by: Johnny Wichita on October 04, 2013, 11:49:49 PM
johnny dubs, am i like gonna be so rich soon i wont have to worry about this stuff?
Embrace the grind. And invest as much as you possibly can. And take my advice from after fattyfest.
Post by: sys on October 17, 2013, 10:42:24 PM
Post by: steve dave on October 18, 2013, 07:26:00 AM
http://www.horizonkinetics.com/docs/Q3_2013_Commentary.pdf
that's a pretty fun read
Post by: Rams on October 18, 2013, 09:09:22 AM
http://www.horizonkinetics.com/docs/Q3_2013_Commentary.pdfthe turnover ratio comparison on the first page is horribly flawed at best and totally misleading at worst.
Post by: steve dave on October 18, 2013, 09:10:08 AM
http://www.horizonkinetics.com/docs/Q3_2013_Commentary.pdfthe turnover ratio comparison on the first page is horribly flawed at best and totally misleading at worst.
yeah, that was stupid. could have been targetting that poriton of the write up at complete dumbasses though.
Post by: steve dave on October 18, 2013, 09:12:58 AM
Post by: Rams on October 18, 2013, 09:23:28 AM
the stuff about the country specific index funds was pretty interesting though. not really surprising I guess. and the general tone of the piece was great.I thought there were a couple good points they made and I certainly agree with parts of it, but in the end, it's just like any quarterly commentary that comes from an investment company that's trying to sell you something: it's mostly biased and misleading.
Post by: ben ji on October 18, 2013, 09:23:46 AM
the stuff about the country specific index funds was pretty interesting though. not really surprising I guess. and the general tone of the piece was great. I mean, ultimately they are just shilling for their fund.
It was a very interesting article, thank you for posting Steve Dave.
Post by: steve dave on October 18, 2013, 09:36:32 AM
the stuff about the country specific index funds was pretty interesting though. not really surprising I guess. and the general tone of the piece was great. I mean, ultimately they are just shilling for their fund.
It was a very interesting article, thank you for posting Steve Dave.
you are welcome friend.
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on October 18, 2013, 09:40:05 AM
Post by: steve dave on October 18, 2013, 09:44:36 AM
I've accumulated some cash in my SIMPLE this year and want a stock that I know nothing about to invest in. Help me out here.
acot
Post by: steve dave on October 18, 2013, 09:45:33 AM
Post by: Emo EMAW on October 18, 2013, 10:00:43 AM
Post by: Brock Landers on October 18, 2013, 10:36:42 AM
Whenever I have extra cash I buy KSU. All day err day.
Dunno, they seem small-timey for a railroad stock.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQc1ipxfdHTWCJU2YlJfsgUQORn0uTzLr0hpSEcWEbhTQGR00Yz1g)
Post by: Emo EMAW on October 18, 2013, 11:34:45 AM
Post by: sys on October 19, 2013, 11:06:06 AM
the turnover ratio comparison on the first page is horribly flawed at best and totally misleading at worst.
yeah, that was stupid. could have been targetting that poriton of the write up at complete dumbasses though.
i don't know how you came to the conclusion that the ratio is flawed. i didn't see any information on how that data were compiled or the ratio calculated, so i don't see how that conclusion could be derived based on the information within the pdf itself.
as regards to the dumbasses. while far be it from me to suggest rich people and financial services providers can't be dumbasses, the investment vehicle is not readily available to small retail investors. it designed for managed money and 1%ers (i accept, though, that the commentary is probably not intended solely, perhaps even principally, for their investors).
regarding the misleading, i don't think you understood the reason those data were presented.
Post by: Rams on October 19, 2013, 11:50:50 AM
I suppose their analysis of international etfs hold water, but I'm not sure people invest in those funds thinking that they're participating specifically in the rise in local demand. if that's the reason you're buying a country specific etf, then I guess that's good information.
The points they make on market-value weighted indices are good ones, but not ground-breaking. the idea of equal-weight indices is as old as etfs themselves.
finally, the graph at the end comparing the performance of what I assume is their flagship investment strategy to that of the S&P 500 is laughable. the S&P 500 is made of 500 of the largest, most widely held corporations in the U.S. their index appears to be made up of companies that have very large insider holdings. while their are very good reasons to believe that closely held companies make for superior investments, they are also usually incredibly small (most likely micro-caps). as companies grow larger, the proportion of insider ownership obviously declines. I think this goes without saying, but obviously micro-cap companies in general are going to perform much better over a long period of time than larger corporations. they are, however, much more volatile in the short run...as you can clearly see from the graph. a fair comparison would be their index vs. the most prominent index that contains stocks of equal market cap (russell 2000?)
Post by: sys on October 19, 2013, 01:10:08 PM
you can't compare the turnover ratio of individual equities to that of a fund. the turnover ratio of a fund (mutual fund, etf, managed portfolios like Horizons, hedge funds, etc.) relates to how often the individual holdings in the portfolio itself are turned over. in other words how frequently are they buying and selling stocks within the portfolio. the turnover ratio of an individual equity, as it states in the commentary, is the proportion of outstanding shares traded each year. comparing the 2 doesn't make any sense. it's apples and oranges. furthermore, they seemed to have used the individual equity definition of turnover ratio and applied it to the etf's. that's either incredibly stupid, thoroughly confusing, completely disingenuous, or all three.
they stated what they were comparing and why, so i don't see how it could be considered confusing or disingenuous. stupid is in the eye of the beholder - it made sense to me. without trying to be too condescending, i think you probably simply didn't realize the point being made, or it would have made sense to you as well.
if any part was confusing or extraneous, it was the inclusion of the "average domestic equity mutual fund" among the data. the comparison of the etfs to the individual equities logically follows and supports the point being argued.
I suppose their analysis of international etfs hold water, but I'm not sure people invest in those funds thinking that they're participating specifically in the rise in local demand. if that's the reason you're buying a country specific etf, then I guess that's good information.
The points they make on market-value weighted indices are good ones, but not ground-breaking. the idea of equal-weight indices is as old as etfs themselves.
i don't think they ever present themselves as breaking new ground.
finally, the graph at the end comparing the performance of what I assume is their flagship investment strategy to that of the S&P 500 is laughable. the S&P 500 is made of 500 of the largest, most widely held corporations in the U.S. their index appears to be made up of companies that have very large insider holdings. while their are very good reasons to believe that closely held companies make for superior investments, they are also usually incredibly small (most likely micro-caps). as companies grow larger, the proportion of insider ownership obviously declines. I think this goes without saying, but obviously micro-cap companies in general are going to perform much better over a long period of time than larger corporations. they are, however, much more volatile in the short run...as you can clearly see from the graph. a fair comparison would be their index vs. the most prominent index that contains stocks of equal market cap (russell 2000?)
the graph you're discussing doesn't present the results of any of their investment vehicles. it present the results of an index (that they created, to be sure) of equities with high insider ownership vs the s&p 500. certainly you could present it against other indices besides the s&p 500, but there is nothing deceitful in choosing a large cap index. the avg weighted market cap of the equities in their index appears to be 17 billion. in the s&p 500 it is 28 billion, in the russell 2000 it is 1.6 billion (not sure i pulled apples to apples numbers due to weighting, but i think the general size range is a fair comparison).
Post by: sys on October 19, 2013, 04:33:14 PM
Post by: Catchacold on October 20, 2013, 11:11:34 AM
Whenever I have extra cash I buy KSU. All day err day.
Dunno, they seem small-timey for a railroad stock.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQc1ipxfdHTWCJU2YlJfsgUQORn0uTzLr0hpSEcWEbhTQGR00Yz1g)
Up over 200% since I bought some. :party:
Post by: Rams on October 20, 2013, 12:42:36 PM
was looking into the horizon kinetics people a little more and saw that they do offer mutual funds under a different subsidiary (or parent, dunno, seems pretty convoluted). so, my point about how they don't market their ideas to retail investors was not accurate.I was just looking at their explanation of the ISE wealth index. it seems to be an index they tout as as an "inside ownership" index. but some of their sample holdings from the sales piece I saw listed companies like google, viacom and news corp...all of which have insider ownership at approximately 0% (when you round to the nearest percent). so I'm not really sure what their angle or strategy is, but it seems to be that of investing in companies with very wealthy founders with recognizable names. I certainly don't understand what the reasoning behind that is, but I guess everybody has their own weird strategy that they think works, so whatever.
also, you're right. I clearly don't understand what their point was with the turnover ratio information. they seem to be pointing out that high frequency trading is responsible for most of the pricing in the market (no crap) and that the largest etfs that track the s&p have the highest frequency of trading (again, no crap). I just don't really understand what their point is. what point were they trying to make?
Post by: sys on October 20, 2013, 01:40:58 PM
what point were they trying to make?
that a significant, and growing, proportion of equity transactions are being driven by index tracking vehicles, in which transactions are driven by things like inflows, outflows, weighting, etc., and in which the underlying value of the equity being bought and sold is not a consideration for at least one party in the transaction.
Post by: Rams on October 20, 2013, 03:04:59 PM
ok. so what? are they implying that equities held by large index funds (ie. companies in the s&p 500) are completely misvalued because of this? if so, that's a pretty dumb argument.what point were they trying to make?
that a significant, and growing, proportion of equity transactions are being driven by index tracking vehicles, in which transactions are driven by things like inflows, outflows, weighting, etc., and in which the underlying value of the equity being bought and sold is not a consideration for at least one party in the transaction.
Post by: kim carnes on October 20, 2013, 03:09:44 PM
http://www.google.com/finance?q=bufox&ei=GDhkUsjMMoyOlAPFqAE
Post by: sys on October 20, 2013, 03:28:43 PM
ok. so what? are they implying that equities held by large index funds (ie. companies in the s&p 500) are completely misvalued because of this? if so, that's a pretty dumb argument.
you are really reaching on trying to argue against their thesis. they're just pointing out what they consider a potential source of distortion in the marketplace. it doesn't have to lead to a "complete misvaluation" to be an interesting point to consider.
again, as regards to dumb, that's in the eye of the beholder. i didn't find it to be dumb at all. completely the opposite, in fact.
Post by: kim carnes on October 20, 2013, 10:11:44 PM
ok. so what? are they implying that equities held by large index funds (ie. companies in the s&p 500) are completely misvalued because of this? if so, that's a pretty dumb argument.
you are really reaching on trying to argue against their thesis. they're just pointing out what they consider a potential source of distortion in the marketplace. it doesn't have to lead to a "complete misvaluation" to be an interesting point to consider.
again, as regards to dumb, that's in the eye of the beholder. i didn't find it to be dumb at all. completely the opposite, in fact.
I agree and have thought of this myself. It's important to remember that I'm considered a genius in some circles.
Post by: sys on December 27, 2013, 06:37:22 PM
Post by: 06wildcat on December 27, 2013, 07:19:23 PM
http://islandia.law.yale.edu/ayres/Life-Cycle%20Investing%20Working%20Paper.pdf
The average working schlub can be bothered to take an hour or two a month to do retirement planning, especially in their 20s and 30s, they're never going to understand leverage let alone do it properly.
My mortgage broker had a hard time understanding why I put down 5 percent and took the PMI hit (they wouldn't allow a bridge loan) of about $650 per year when the other 15 percent could be parked in a medium-yield utility stock and earn about $1,000. And no, the added interest costs aren't really a factor since PMI will be retired in 3 years from principal payments and asset appreciation and the 30-year rate is low enough inflation will make any difference trivial by then.
Post by: kim carnes on December 27, 2013, 07:31:25 PM
http://islandia.law.yale.edu/ayres/Life-Cycle%20Investing%20Working%20Paper.pdf
The average working schlub can be bothered to take an hour or two a month to do retirement planning, especially in their 20s and 30s, they're never going to understand leverage let alone do it properly.
My mortgage broker had a hard time understanding why I put down 5 percent and took the PMI hit (they wouldn't allow a bridge loan) of about $650 per year when the other 15 percent could be parked in a medium-yield utility stock and earn about $1,000. And no, the added interest costs aren't really a factor since PMI will be retired in 3 years from principal payments and asset appreciation and the 30-year rate is low enough inflation will make any difference trivial by then.
lol, you showed them you sly son of a gun
Post by: WonderMeal on December 28, 2013, 09:09:53 PM
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304244904579276963442898436
For anyone new to investing, read the article linked above.
Quote from: John C. Bogle, founder of Vanguard Group
The best way to own stocks is to own an index fund.
Quote from: Jane Mendillo, chief executive of Harvard Management Co., the university's endowment
"Take the long-term view" was the best advice I ever received. If you take the long-term view, you will see things others miss. Nearly everyone thinks about next month, next quarter. Jack Meyer, who ran [the] Harvard endowment for 15 years, taught me that when you think about multiple years or even decades you see opportunities to create value others might not see, and you make different judgments today as a result.
Post by: 06wildcat on December 29, 2013, 06:39:22 PM
http://islandia.law.yale.edu/ayres/Life-Cycle%20Investing%20Working%20Paper.pdf
The average working schlub can be bothered to take an hour or two a month to do retirement planning, especially in their 20s and 30s, they're never going to understand leverage let alone do it properly.
My mortgage broker had a hard time understanding why I put down 5 percent and took the PMI hit (they wouldn't allow a bridge loan) of about $650 per year when the other 15 percent could be parked in a medium-yield utility stock and earn about $1,000. And no, the added interest costs aren't really a factor since PMI will be retired in 3 years from principal payments and asset appreciation and the 30-year rate is low enough inflation will make any difference trivial by then.
lol, you showed them you sly son of a gun
My basic point is asking average investors to use leverage is theoretically a good idea, in practice it would not end well. Debt is a fantastic tool to build wealth with, it's also a good way to remain poor forever.
Post by: ben ji on January 02, 2014, 11:52:13 AM
I usually use the different financial calculators on the web but it would be easiest to have everything in one place.
Post by: sys on January 02, 2014, 12:20:07 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 02, 2014, 12:29:02 PM
Anyone have any suggestions on a Excel Template with most of the retirement planning formula's already embedded?
I usually use the different financial calculators on the web but it would be easiest to have everything in one place.
Quote from: .xlsx
A B C
1 what I have / % to goal / what I need
-----------------------------------------
2 pud amount / =A2/C2 / huge amount
Post by: sys on January 02, 2014, 12:30:58 PM
what I have / % to goal / what I need[/quote]
-----------------------------------------
pud amount / =A2/C2 / huge amount
you still have to answer my question, benji.
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on January 02, 2014, 12:33:18 PM
like, what are you looking for? i can't help you find one (and wouldn't, if i could), but i'm curious as to what you want.
:lol: sys is an absolute treasure
Post by: yoga-like_abana on January 02, 2014, 12:34:32 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 02, 2014, 12:36:24 PM
Anyone have any suggestions on a Excel Template with most of the retirement planning formula's already embedded?
I usually use the different financial calculators on the web but it would be easiest to have everything in one place.Quote from: .xlsxA B C
1 what I have / % to goal / what I need
-----------------------------------------
2 pud amount / =A2/C2 / huge amount
also, don't forget to format cell B2 to a % or you will need a math whiz to tell you what it says
Post by: Emo EMAW on January 02, 2014, 12:47:30 PM
Anyone have any suggestions on a Excel Template with most of the retirement planning formula's already embedded?
I usually use the different financial calculators on the web but it would be easiest to have everything in one place.
I made my own. Simple enough.
Post by: ben ji on January 02, 2014, 01:38:41 PM
I made my own. Simple enough.
I started doing this but I figured there has got to be something out there I can download that has the formula's built in.
like, what are you looking for? i can't help you find one (and wouldn't, if i could), but i'm curious as to what you want. i have a hard time imagining what use one could serve.
Looking for something that has inflation built in to the equation along with the ability to change contribution amounts over time. The basic ones on the web do not adjust the contribution amount for inflation, ie assumes you will invest 500 a month for 40 years but that $500 does not adjust for inflation.
Basically, assuming 7% annual return/3% inflation, how much would I need invested at age 45 to quit my job and become a teacher. I want to run different variables that assume no more contributions after that date or different contribution amounts etc etc to see what the numbers look like.
Example- I want X amount of 2014 dollars a year in retirement starting in 2052. How much would I need saved by age 45 assuming no more contributions after age 45. How much would I need saved assuming $100 a month contribution after age 45 etc etc etc. The first part is pretty easy, I'm just looking for a formula that adjusts for changing contributions amounts over the time period.
Post by: Emo EMAW on January 02, 2014, 01:40:12 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on January 02, 2014, 01:41:19 PM
Post by: UCHADBRO on January 02, 2014, 01:46:19 PM
Post by: ben ji on January 02, 2014, 01:51:31 PM
That's still pretty simple to do yourself.
Yeah, but it would prob save me about an hour if I could just download it.
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on January 02, 2014, 01:51:45 PM
Post by: sys on January 02, 2014, 01:54:31 PM
Post by: michigancat on January 02, 2014, 01:55:55 PM
just invest as much as you can as early as you can, for maximum returns and/or maximum flexibility. i don't see much use to the projections, given the arbitrariness of the input assumptions and the flexibility in the goals of the output.
this is pretty much my approach.
Post by: Emo EMAW on January 02, 2014, 02:04:04 PM
(https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/v/1489337_10151861748557686_234897803_n.jpg?oh=2f1a34551b36ec9ee5979a4da9073025&oe=52C7E16F)
Post by: mocat on January 02, 2014, 02:06:16 PM
Post by: Emo EMAW on January 02, 2014, 02:10:04 PM
Post by: ben ji on January 02, 2014, 02:17:35 PM
just invest as much as you can as early as you can, for maximum returns and/or maximum flexibility. i don't see much use to the projections, given the arbitrariness of the input assumptions and the flexibility in the goals of the output.
This is currently my approach but I want something more detailed to set guidelines for how much I need to invest each month for various scenarios.
Post by: treysolid on January 02, 2014, 02:45:12 PM
Now they are trashing the cash balance account and giving us a straight up 5% contribution to the investment account no matter what we contribute. Seems like a much better approach.
Post by: The1BigWillie on January 02, 2014, 02:49:26 PM
:billdance:
Post by: ben ji on January 02, 2014, 02:53:01 PM
My company is revamping their retirement plan for 2014. We used to have a cash balance account that would get ~ 2K dumped into it every year plus an investment account where the company would give you a 50% match up to your 6% contribution. The interest rate on the cash balance plan is the greater of 5.5% or whatever the current rate for the 10-year bond is.
Now they are trashing the cash balance account and giving us a straight up 5% contribution to the investment account no matter what we contribute. Seems like a much better approach.
Only if you make more than 100k a year
Post by: UCHADBRO on January 02, 2014, 04:55:11 PM
How much money do I want to have when I die? $0.00
:billdance:
That seems like an optimal strategy
Post by: ben ji on January 07, 2014, 04:41:00 PM
www.futureadvisor.com
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303506404577448503218010424
Post by: sys on January 18, 2014, 12:15:48 AM
http://bwater.com/Uploads/FileManager/research/how-the-economic-machine-works/ray_dalio__how_the_economic_machine_works__leveragings_and_deleveragings.pdf
http://www.horizonkinetics.com/docs/Q4_2013_Commentary.pdf
Post by: sys on January 24, 2014, 04:29:47 PM
Quote
Based on the results from our empirical study, it appears that the preference shift towards index fund investing is reducing the informational efficiency of stock prices.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1769220
Post by: ben ji on January 24, 2014, 04:48:06 PM
QuoteBased on the results from our empirical study, it appears that the preference shift towards index fund investing is reducing the informational efficiency of stock prices.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1769220
So I was thinking about the increasing popularity of Index funds the other day and have some questions....
Index funds are basically a collection of stocks meant to mimic the movement of the a certain index(SP500, Dow, etc) correct?
Lets say right now only 10%(Completely made up percent) of individual investors actually buy Index funds now but the gospel is spreading and soon 50% of individual investors are buying index funds instead of mutual funds.
Wouldnt this lead to the stocks in the index funds being overvalued(and then crashing) compared to other stocks not included in the Index's?
Do Index funds adjust for this?
Post by: sys on January 24, 2014, 05:14:11 PM
presumably, if passive funds continue to increase to the degree you mention (50% of total invested funds), the arbitrage would become proportionally more attractive and would begin to attract more investors, acting to reverse any overvaluation.
the market should correct itself. afaik, no index funds attempt to hedge anything to correct any possible effect themselves. but they could, if investors became interested in that - and willing to pay a little for it. you could perhaps consider fundamental weighting an attempt to reduce similar effects.
Post by: ben ji on January 29, 2014, 08:38:02 AM
Anyone know what this MyRA deal Obama mentioned in the state of the union speech last night?
Quote
Obama will also promote his proposal to create a program to help Americans who do not have traditional IRAs or 401K retirement accounts to save money for retirement.
Later in the day he will travel to a U.S. Steel plant in West Mifflin, Pennsylvania, where he will discuss his savings proposals. Administration officials said the plant was an example of a place that offered very good retirement accounts.
Obama said in his speech he would direct the Treasury Department to create a savings bond-like instrument called MyRA, which would have a guaranteed return without risk of losing money.
Is it basically buying Gov Bonds in a tax sheltered account?
Post by: Emo EMAW on January 29, 2014, 08:40:55 AM
Post by: ben ji on January 29, 2014, 08:47:26 AM
Who cares? You don't want it.
Well if we don't know what it is how do you know you don't want it? HUH?!?! Yeah, that's what I thought, bud.
Post by: Emo EMAW on January 29, 2014, 08:49:21 AM
Post by: ben ji on January 29, 2014, 09:15:01 AM
Here let me help you: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2014/01/28/obama-state-of-the-union-myra-savings-plan/4992743/
Gracias
Quote
Safe: The new savings bonds would have its principal guaranteed by the U.S. government, much like a traditional savings bond.
Tax benefits: The MyRA bond would be like a Roth IRA: Your contributions would not be tax-deductible, but your earnings would be free from tax when you withdraw it. As with a Roth, your contributions can be taken out tax-free at any time.
Affordable: Minimum initial investment could be as low as $25, and subsequent investments could be as little as $5, through payroll deduction. Savers can keep the same account when they change jobs.
Rates: Savers will earn interest at the same variable interest rate as the federal employees' Thrift Savings Plan (TSP) Government Securities Investment Fund. The fund earned 1.74% last year.
Availability: The MyRA would be open to households earning up to $191,000 a year through their employers. Employers won't incur any cost to offer the MyRAs. You'll be able to save up to $15,000 a year for up to 30 years before transferring to a private Roth IRA.
So basically this will just save lazy people the step of setting up their own IRA/Deposits by having it done with payroll deductions but they can only buy Gov Bonds.
Post by: The Whale on January 29, 2014, 10:09:14 AM
Post by: ben ji on January 29, 2014, 10:14:52 AM
Tried to work through some scenarios where a myRA would be useful (at least based on the info released so far), but can't come up with much. After maxing Roth and 401k, you're still going to be better off investing in an IRA and paying taxes on eventual withdrawls, unless you're really, really risk averse.
I currently have payroll deductions that go directly to a savings/emergency fund account that has terrible interest rates. I may look into using the MyRA as a substitute but that's about the only thing I can think of. Would all depend on how easy it is to make withdrawls.
Post by: sys on January 30, 2014, 12:47:40 AM
I currently have payroll deductions that go directly to a savings/emergency fund account that has terrible interest rates.
don't do that. you're young, take some risk, make some money. you'll come out way ahead.
Post by: ben ji on January 30, 2014, 08:13:50 AM
I currently have payroll deductions that go directly to a savings/emergency fund account that has terrible interest rates.
don't do that. you're young, take some risk, make some money. you'll come out way ahead.
I'm not living in my parents basement anymore sys, got a dog and house to take care of now. Big Boi stuff ya know?
Post by: Emo EMAW on January 30, 2014, 08:58:04 AM
I currently have payroll deductions that go directly to a savings/emergency fund account that has terrible interest rates.
don't do that. you're young, take some risk, make some money. you'll come out way ahead.
I'm not living in my parents basement anymore sys, got a dog and house to take care of now. Big Boi stuff ya know?
He's saying invest it in something with more upside.
Post by: ben ji on January 30, 2014, 09:13:01 AM
I currently have payroll deductions that go directly to a savings/emergency fund account that has terrible interest rates.
don't do that. you're young, take some risk, make some money. you'll come out way ahead.
I'm not living in my parents basement anymore sys, got a dog and house to take care of now. Big Boi stuff ya know?
He's saying invest it in something with more upside.
This isn't really "investing" money, more for money that sits around in case my furnace/AC/Car breaks down or something.
Post by: Kat Kid on January 30, 2014, 09:37:33 AM
Post by: Emo EMAW on January 30, 2014, 09:39:34 AM
I currently have payroll deductions that go directly to a savings/emergency fund account that has terrible interest rates.
don't do that. you're young, take some risk, make some money. you'll come out way ahead.
I'm not living in my parents basement anymore sys, got a dog and house to take care of now. Big Boi stuff ya know?
He's saying invest it in something with more upside.
This isn't really "investing" money, more for money that sits around in case my furnace/AC/Car breaks down or something.
Just throw it in a Roth and if the crap hits the fan you can still pull your principal. Or you can become my butler.
Post by: ben ji on January 30, 2014, 09:43:05 AM
I currently have payroll deductions that go directly to a savings/emergency fund account that has terrible interest rates.
don't do that. you're young, take some risk, make some money. you'll come out way ahead.
I'm not living in my parents basement anymore sys, got a dog and house to take care of now. Big Boi stuff ya know?
He's saying invest it in something with more upside.
This isn't really "investing" money, more for money that sits around in case my furnace/AC/Car breaks down or something.
Just throw it in a Roth and if the crap hits the fan you can still pull your principal. Or you can become my butler.
Yeah, I thought of that but I don't want to get in the habit of making withdrawls from my Roth. First its because you need a new heater, then its because you want to go to vegas...next thing you know you've got 5k bet on black hoping the roulette ball bounces your way. :pray:
Post by: Emo EMAW on January 30, 2014, 09:46:33 AM
Post by: michigancat on January 30, 2014, 10:29:09 AM
I currently have payroll deductions that go directly to a savings/emergency fund account that has terrible interest rates.
don't do that. you're young, take some risk, make some money. you'll come out way ahead.
hmm, interesting. I may consider this.
Post by: raquetcat on January 30, 2014, 11:23:07 AM
I have an emergency fund, but I have it in a very conservative index fund and it made good returns last year, it just doesn't make sense to have your money making 0.8% when you could be making much higher returns. Even if you lose a little bit short term, you'll come out way ahead long term. I guess you just need to ask yourself realistically how often will you need that money. If you're car is a pos, and your furnace is 30 years old and it'll really hurt to lose a couple hundred bucks then keep it in your savings account, otherwise put that money to work :dunno:I currently have payroll deductions that go directly to a savings/emergency fund account that has terrible interest rates.
don't do that. you're young, take some risk, make some money. you'll come out way ahead.
hmm, interesting. I may consider this.
Post by: Kat Kid on January 30, 2014, 11:35:00 AM
Post by: ben ji on January 30, 2014, 11:41:35 AM
I have an emergency fund, but I have it in a very conservative index fund and it made good returns last year, it just doesn't make sense to have your money making 0.8% when you could be making much higher returns. Even if you lose a little bit short term, you'll come out way ahead long term. I guess you just need to ask yourself realistically how often will you need that money. If you're car is a pos, and your furnace is 30 years old and it'll really hurt to lose a couple hundred bucks then keep it in your savings account, otherwise put that money to work :dunno:I currently have payroll deductions that go directly to a savings/emergency fund account that has terrible interest rates.
don't do that. you're young, take some risk, make some money. you'll come out way ahead.
hmm, interesting. I may consider this.
Thanks, will definitely look into it. Any suggestions on "Conservative" Index funds? I'm guessing there is a category of them in my brokerage acct but I have not looked yet.
Post by: raquetcat on January 30, 2014, 08:52:19 PM
I have an emergency fund, but I have it in a very conservative index fund and it made good returns last year, it just doesn't make sense to have your money making 0.8% when you could be making much higher returns. Even if you lose a little bit short term, you'll come out way ahead long term. I guess you just need to ask yourself realistically how often will you need that money. If you're car is a pos, and your furnace is 30 years old and it'll really hurt to lose a couple hundred bucks then keep it in your savings account, otherwise put that money to work :dunno:I currently have payroll deductions that go directly to a savings/emergency fund account that has terrible interest rates.
don't do that. you're young, take some risk, make some money. you'll come out way ahead.
hmm, interesting. I may consider this.
Thanks, will definitely look into it. Any suggestions on "Conservative" Index funds? I'm guessing there is a category of them in my brokerage acct but I have not looked yet.
well ben ji, knowing everything about you that I do (awesome dad, cute dog, loves to fish, crappy looking kitchen cabinets, lots of flowers in your yard, friend to chipmunks, dog poop picker upper, girlfriend, hot bod, makes bank (cause emaw grad)) I would recommend something along the lines of this:
https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-funds/lifestrategy/#/mini/overview/0724
or if you're looking for more or less risk take a look at any of the 4 funds on that page, I'm sure whoever you invest through will have something similar to those
Post by: sys on January 30, 2014, 08:57:15 PM
Post by: slobber on January 31, 2014, 06:43:31 AM
benji don't invest in anything that includes a certain % bonds. at your age, don't invest in bonds unless you have a specific thesis in which you have high conviction.I'm 42 with a family and I don't invest in bonds.
Post by: Kat Kid on January 31, 2014, 06:48:26 AM
Post by: kim carnes on January 31, 2014, 06:51:14 AM
Vanguard S&P 500 index is the gold standard.
For old people
Post by: raquetcat on January 31, 2014, 09:58:48 AM
What kind of stuff do you invest in?benji don't invest in anything that includes a certain % bonds. at your age, don't invest in bonds unless you have a specific thesis in which you have high conviction.I'm 42 with a family and I don't invest in bonds.
Post by: slobber on January 31, 2014, 10:13:30 AM
Ball bearingsWhat kind of stuff do you invest in?benji don't invest in anything that includes a certain % bonds. at your age, don't invest in bonds unless you have a specific thesis in which you have high conviction.I'm 42 with a family and I don't invest in bonds.
No. I know Ramsey gets a lot of crap on gE for some of his teachings, but I use to listen to him when with some regularity when I was younger. I loved hearing some of the people that turned their mess around. Anyway, he preaches investing in the following manner:
25% each in the following fund classes:
Growth
Growth & Income
Aggressive Growth
International
Post by: raquetcat on January 31, 2014, 10:31:46 AM
I took the class, and he has some good principles, I just don't follow everything he teaches, I didn't remember that though, thanks!Ball bearingsWhat kind of stuff do you invest in?benji don't invest in anything that includes a certain % bonds. at your age, don't invest in bonds unless you have a specific thesis in which you have high conviction.I'm 42 with a family and I don't invest in bonds.
No. I know Ramsey gets a lot of crap on gE for some of his teachings, but I use to listen to him when with some regularity when I was younger. I loved hearing some of the people that turned their mess around. Anyway, he preaches investing in the following manner:
25% each in the following fund classes:
Growth
Growth & Income
Aggressive Growth
International
Post by: slobber on January 31, 2014, 10:39:00 AM
My personal philosophy is that I plan to have a shitload of money when I retire, so I won't move much to conservative investments as I get older. I would rather stay in growth/aggressive growth and leave shitloads of money for my kids. If the market takes a huge downturn while I am retired, I want to have enough money that it doesn't change anything in my day to day living. If you retire with just enough money invested to get through the rest of your life, then you should move most of it to much more conservative investments as you age. I work with some people who were planning on retiring in 2008 and 2009. They didn't have a bunch saved up, just enough to retire; however, they left what they did have in more aggressive investments as they neared retirement. They are still working today.
Post by: steve dave on January 31, 2014, 10:43:10 AM
My personal philosophy is that I plan to have a shitload of money when I retire
my philosophy was to have just a small amount of money when I retire but after reading this I'm changing it to a shitload. dobber has convinced me.
Post by: sys on January 31, 2014, 10:45:12 AM
Post by: slobber on January 31, 2014, 10:46:59 AM
You're welcome.My personal philosophy is that I plan to have a shitload of money when I retire
my philosophy was to have just a small amount of money when I retire but after reading this I'm changing it to a shitload. dobber has convinced me.
Post by: steve dave on January 31, 2014, 10:50:08 AM
retiring with a shitload means you worked too long.
a windfall is also part of my strategy
Post by: ben ji on January 31, 2014, 10:53:43 AM
Dont care, gone fishing.
Post by: sys on January 31, 2014, 10:54:46 AM
a windfall is also part of my strategy
that's the best plan there is.
Post by: slobber on January 31, 2014, 10:58:39 AM
retiring with a shitload means you worked too long.I see it differently. A shitload means that you don't have to worry about money at all in retirement and you can do whatever you want to. If you have just enough money, then you need to be more cautious. A shitload is the way to go.
It is probably the difference of working an extra 4-5 years on average.
Simple Example: $2MM is just enough. You can withdraw 4% annually ($80k), live a decent life, and probably not run out of money, but you are limited to $80k annually.
However, if you work an additional 5 years and invest an additional $15k annually, you will have just over $3MM. Withdrawing the same 4% gives you $120,000 annually and you will probably not run out of money.
(this is all just to show a simple example. there are plenty of holes in this and it is not reflective of my more in depth plan)
EDIT: Which entails windfalls and such.
Post by: ben ji on January 31, 2014, 11:00:36 AM
retiring with a shitload means you worked too long.I see it differently. A shitload means that you don't have to worry about money at all in retirement and you can do whatever you want to. If you have just enough money, then you need to be more cautious. A shitload is the way to go.
It is probably the difference of working an extra 4-5 years on average.
Simple Example: $2MM is just enough. You can withdraw 4% annually ($80k), live a decent life, and probably not run out of money, but you are limited to $80k annually.
However, if you work an additional 5 years and invest an additional $15k annually, you will have just over $3MM. Withdrawing the same 4% gives you $120,000 annually and you will probably not run out of money.
(this is all just to show a simple example. there are plenty of holes in this and it is not reflective of my more in depth plan)
Dobber, I'll let you fish on my flint hills farm pond if you pay my property tax, k?
Post by: Emo EMAW on January 31, 2014, 11:09:24 AM
How much does a house on 40 acres(Stocked farm pond duh) in the flint hills cost? I'll need exactly that much to retire....but but but, ben ji, how will you pay for other stuff like bills and spending money?
Dont care, gone fishing.
Don't buy it just pay mortgage on it.
Post by: ben ji on January 31, 2014, 11:11:57 AM
How much does a house on 40 acres(Stocked farm pond duh) in the flint hills cost? I'll need exactly that much to retire....but but but, ben ji, how will you pay for other stuff like bills and spending money?
Dont care, gone fishing.
Don't buy it just pay mortgage on it.
Emo, I'll give you unlimited fishing and hunting access to my land if you pay my electric bill, k?
Post by: slobber on January 31, 2014, 11:14:47 AM
Possibility. Let's stay in touch.retiring with a shitload means you worked too long.I see it differently. A shitload means that you don't have to worry about money at all in retirement and you can do whatever you want to. If you have just enough money, then you need to be more cautious. A shitload is the way to go.
It is probably the difference of working an extra 4-5 years on average.
Simple Example: $2MM is just enough. You can withdraw 4% annually ($80k), live a decent life, and probably not run out of money, but you are limited to $80k annually.
However, if you work an additional 5 years and invest an additional $15k annually, you will have just over $3MM. Withdrawing the same 4% gives you $120,000 annually and you will probably not run out of money.
(this is all just to show a simple example. there are plenty of holes in this and it is not reflective of my more in depth plan)
Dobber, I'll let you fish on my flint hills farm pond if you pay my property tax, k?
Post by: steve dave on January 31, 2014, 11:16:28 AM
How much does a house on 40 acres(Stocked farm pond duh) in the flint hills cost? I'll need exactly that much to retire....but but but, ben ji, how will you pay for other stuff like bills and spending money?
Dont care, gone fishing.
Don't buy it just pay mortgage on it.
Emo, I'll give you unlimited fishing and hunting access to my land if you pay my electric bill, k?
the crowd is going to be like spring break at disney world by the time ben ji gets this thing financed. no thanks.
Post by: ben ji on January 31, 2014, 11:18:05 AM
How much does a house on 40 acres(Stocked farm pond duh) in the flint hills cost? I'll need exactly that much to retire....but but but, ben ji, how will you pay for other stuff like bills and spending money?
Dont care, gone fishing.
Don't buy it just pay mortgage on it.
Emo, I'll give you unlimited fishing and hunting access to my land if you pay my electric bill, k?
the crowd is going to be like spring break at disney world by the time ben ji gets this thing financed. no thanks.
SD, I'm planning on stocking the pond with Bullhead catfish and will let you borrow my zebco to fish anytime if you pay for my propane, k?
Post by: slobber on January 31, 2014, 11:19:09 AM
How much does a house on 40 acres(Stocked farm pond duh) in the flint hills cost? I'll need exactly that much to retire....but but but, ben ji, how will you pay for other stuff like bills and spending money?
Dont care, gone fishing.
Don't buy it just pay mortgage on it.
Emo, I'll give you unlimited fishing and hunting access to my land if you pay my electric bill, k?
the crowd is going to be like spring break at disney world by the time ben ji gets this thing financed. no thanks.
EDIT: NM
Post by: Tobias on January 31, 2014, 11:19:39 AM
Post by: Emo EMAW on January 31, 2014, 11:21:45 AM
How much does a house on 40 acres(Stocked farm pond duh) in the flint hills cost? I'll need exactly that much to retire....but but but, ben ji, how will you pay for other stuff like bills and spending money?
Dont care, gone fishing.
Don't buy it just pay mortgage on it.
Emo, I'll give you unlimited fishing and hunting access to my land if you pay my electric bill, k?
Ya man. You're going to need a lot more than 40 acres though. Do like 2500 acres instead and I'll manage the grazing for you. Also provide solar powered water pumps.
Post by: slobber on January 31, 2014, 11:52:46 AM
quit following dobber around:horrorsurprise: :fatty: :lol:
Post by: sys on January 31, 2014, 12:30:07 PM
retiring with a shitload means you worked too long.I see it differently. A shitload means that you don't have to worry about money at all in retirement and you can do whatever you want to. If you have just enough money, then you need to be more cautious. A shitload is the way to go.
It is probably the difference of working an extra 4-5 years on average.
Simple Example: $2MM is just enough. You can withdraw 4% annually ($80k), live a decent life, and probably not run out of money, but you are limited to $80k annually.
However, if you work an additional 5 years and invest an additional $15k annually, you will have just over $3MM. Withdrawing the same 4% gives you $120,000 annually and you will probably not run out of money.
(this is all just to show a simple example. there are plenty of holes in this and it is not reflective of my more in depth plan)
EDIT: Which entails windfalls and such.
you don't need that much money. you're wasting your life because you're obsessed with security. you can (should) probably retire right now.
think of your probable remaining life span. take 100 and divide by those years. consider the resulting number to be a percentage. would you assume that percentage chance of dying sometime this year for your annual salary? if not, why are you willing to sell a year of your life for the same price?
Post by: meow meow on January 31, 2014, 12:56:03 PM
Post by: slobber on January 31, 2014, 01:08:31 PM
I'm relatively new to investing. I get my company 401k match and everything but want to invest more rather than have money sitting in a checking/savings account. Any advice? Is it worth paying a financial advisor and let them worry about it after telling them your goals? UghMy opinion: Yes. However, you should understand exactly what he is doing with your money. It is not that complicated. If he makes it sound complicated, get someone else. Also, don't overpay.
Post by: yoEMAW on January 31, 2014, 01:17:06 PM
How much does a house on 40 acres(Stocked farm pond duh) in the flint hills cost? I'll need exactly that much to retire....but but but, ben ji, how will you pay for other stuff like bills and spending money?
Dont care, gone fishing.
Don't buy it just pay mortgage on it.
Emo, I'll give you unlimited fishing and hunting access to my land if you pay my electric bill, k?
the crowd is going to be like spring break at disney world by the time ben ji gets this thing financed. no thanks.
SD, I'm planning on stocking the pond with Bullhead catfish and will let you borrow my zebco to fish anytime if you pay for my propane, k?
:sdeek:
DO NOT TAKE!
Post by: yoEMAW on January 31, 2014, 01:19:30 PM
Vanguard S&P 500 index is the gold standard.
For old people
read: wealthy, wise, etc.
Post by: sys on January 31, 2014, 01:20:34 PM
I'm relatively new to investing. I get my company 401k match and everything but want to invest more rather than have money sitting in a checking/savings account. Any advice? Is it worth paying a financial advisor and let them worry about it after telling them your goals? Ugh
no. investing is (can be, if you want it to be) incredibly easy. there's no reason to pay someone to help you.
Post by: Emo EMAW on January 31, 2014, 01:20:51 PM
I'm relatively new to investing. I get my company 401k match and everything but want to invest more rather than have money sitting in a checking/savings account. Any advice? Is it worth paying a financial advisor and let them worry about it after telling them your goals? Ugh
no. investing is (can be, if you want it to be) incredibly easy. there's no reason to pay someone to help you.
:thumbs:
Post by: meow meow on January 31, 2014, 01:50:33 PM
Post by: slobber on January 31, 2014, 01:57:03 PM
Ok so let's say you're married, couple kids, lower 30's. Mortgage is your only debt. Have extra money at the end of the month sitting in your checking. Do you contribute more to your 401k? Invest somewhere else I don't know about?How much extra money? If it is just a couple hundred bucks and you have good choices in your 401k, invest there. Otherwise, depending on your income, start a Roth IRA.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 31, 2014, 02:01:39 PM
Ok so let's say you're married, couple kids, lower 30's. Mortgage is your only debt. Have extra money at the end of the month sitting in your checking. Do you contribute more to your 401k? Invest somewhere else I don't know about?How much extra money? If it is just a couple hundred bucks and you have good choices in your 401k, invest there. Otherwise, depending on your income, start a Roth IRA.
A couple hundred bucks per month (give or take) could get you nearly halfway to maxing a Roth. If you are maxing your employer match on the 401k, wouldn't it be better to just put what you can in the Roth?
Post by: meow meow on January 31, 2014, 02:23:48 PM
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on January 31, 2014, 02:30:10 PM
Post by: slobber on January 31, 2014, 02:37:10 PM
Short answer: Yes, but probably not too significant. I love the idea of a Roth, but I have that in my 401k as well.Ok so let's say you're married, couple kids, lower 30's. Mortgage is your only debt. Have extra money at the end of the month sitting in your checking. Do you contribute more to your 401k? Invest somewhere else I don't know about?How much extra money? If it is just a couple hundred bucks and you have good choices in your 401k, invest there. Otherwise, depending on your income, start a Roth IRA.
A couple hundred bucks per month (give or take) could get you nearly halfway to maxing a Roth. If you are maxing your employer match on the 401k, wouldn't it be better to just put what you can in the Roth?
However, sometimes people are intimidated by starting something new. Adding $200 per month to your 401k contributions is actionable in about 2 minutes. Setting up a Roth IRA seems more daunting to some.
What I invest in on a monthly basis:
Roth 401k (this is the most significant)
Roth IRA (not actually monthly, but a couple of times/year I make a contribution)
Company stock (buy at 15% discount. Have to hold for a year, but I now sell some 3-4 times a year. I don't want too much money invested in company stock)
3 529 savings accounts
HSA
Post by: slobber on January 31, 2014, 02:38:34 PM
Like 1k or so.Max out a Roth IRA for you and your wife.
Start 529's for the kids. Even if you only put $50 a month in there, do it.
You can use the principle in the Roth for college if necessary.
Post by: sys on January 31, 2014, 02:52:46 PM
Ok so let's say you're married, couple kids, lower 30's. Mortgage is your only debt. Have extra money at the end of the month sitting in your checking. Do you contribute more to your 401k? Invest somewhere else I don't know about?
i'd need to know when you want to retire, when your wife wants to retire and how old she is, if you get a 401k match, and if so what, what investment options you have in your 401k, your current marginal tax rate and your best guess at your marginal tax rate your first 5-10 years after stopping working (assume you file jointly, if not i need to know that too). also how flexible you are, especially w. regard to retirement dates. also mortgage rate and % equity in house.
Post by: meow meow on January 31, 2014, 02:56:43 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 31, 2014, 02:57:16 PM
Ok so let's say you're married, couple kids, lower 30's. Mortgage is your only debt. Have extra money at the end of the month sitting in your checking. Do you contribute more to your 401k? Invest somewhere else I don't know about?
i'd need to know when you want to retire, when your wife wants to retire and how old she is, if you get a 401k match, and if so what, what investment options you have in your 401k, your current marginal tax rate and your best guess at your marginal tax rate your first 5-10 years after stopping working (assume you file jointly, if not i need to know that too). also how flexible you are, especially w. regard to retirement dates. also mortgage rate and % equity in house.
oh eff, let's just go blow that money in vegas meow meow
Post by: steve dave on January 31, 2014, 02:57:48 PM
mort rate is 2.875
:horrorsurprise:
Post by: slobber on January 31, 2014, 02:59:08 PM
I just made accurate assumptions for all of this. You can just use my advice, meow meow. No reason to divulge all of this on a blog.Ok so let's say you're married, couple kids, lower 30's. Mortgage is your only debt. Have extra money at the end of the month sitting in your checking. Do you contribute more to your 401k? Invest somewhere else I don't know about?
i'd need to know when you want to retire, when your wife wants to retire and how old she is, if you get a 401k match, and if so what, what investment options you have in your 401k, your current marginal tax rate and your best guess at your marginal tax rate your first 5-10 years after stopping working (assume you file jointly, if not i need to know that too). also how flexible you are, especially w. regard to retirement dates. also mortgage rate and % equity in house.
Post by: Tobias on January 31, 2014, 02:59:31 PM
mort rate is 2.875
:horrorsurprise:
is that on like a 2 year loan? :sdeek:
Post by: sys on January 31, 2014, 03:00:52 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 31, 2014, 03:03:00 PM
dobber, i'm just guessing at your income and flexibility, but i think you should probably put some or all of your money into a traditional 401k instead of the roth.
yes, agreed here (using my own guesses) (my guess is that dobber makes mad stacks)
Post by: meow meow on January 31, 2014, 03:03:31 PM
mort rate is 2.875
:horrorsurprise:
If only it was my dream house probably be giving up that sweet rate in a few years
Post by: sys on January 31, 2014, 03:04:43 PM
Already have 529 acct, mort rate is 2.875, about 20% equity, wife is 28 would like to retire around 60 I guess. So many questions. Also I cont 6% in 401k get a 6% match threw employer, and I contribute another 6% to a Roth, I'm stuck on 6's maybe? Max out the 529's at 6k per year
tax rate? and not to get you to divulge personal info you don't want to divulge, but 6% doesn't tell me if you are at 17,5 or nowhere near it. when you say roth, you mean ira or 401k?
one caveat - i dunno anything about 529s and don't care if your children go to college or not. you have to figure that part out on your own.
you said 1k/month, correct?
Post by: steve dave on January 31, 2014, 03:05:11 PM
mort rate is 2.875
:horrorsurprise:
If only it was my dream house probably be giving up that sweet rate in a few years
yeah, that will hurt. I currently have like a 3.3% on a 15 year at my current place but now I'm going to have to get a 30 year :frown:
Post by: slobber on January 31, 2014, 03:08:07 PM
dobber, i'm just guessing at your income and flexibility, but i think you should probably put some or all of your money into a traditional 401k instead of the roth.I couldn't convert what was in traditional 401k, and what the company contributes is still traditional. So I have a significant amount that is traditional and everything that I have invested over the past 5 years is Roth. I think it is a good mix. It is hard to know for certain what the taxes will be in the future, so having a mix feels right.
I have considered that maybe I should go back to traditional, since I have the Roth IRA's as well. Maybe that is what my guy wants to talk to me about. :eek: ARE YOU MY GUY? :eek: Is your name Joe R.? :runaway:
Post by: steve dave on January 31, 2014, 03:10:33 PM
Post by: ben ji on January 31, 2014, 03:13:11 PM
Post by: raquetcat on January 31, 2014, 03:19:02 PM
meow meow and I must have gotten loans at the same time, I refinanced a year after getting my house and now have the 2.875% 15 year EMAW loanmort rate is 2.875
:horrorsurprise:
If only it was my dream house probably be giving up that sweet rate in a few years
yeah, that will hurt. I currently have like a 3.3% on a 15 year at my current place but now I'm going to have to get a 30 year :frown:
Post by: sys on January 31, 2014, 03:19:30 PM
dobber, i'm just guessing at your income and flexibility, but i think you should probably put some or all of your money into a traditional 401k instead of the roth.I couldn't convert what was in traditional 401k, and what the company contributes is still traditional. So I have a significant amount that is traditional and everything that I have invested over the past 5 years is Roth. I think it is a good mix. It is hard to know for certain what the taxes will be in the future, so having a mix feels right.
I have considered that maybe I should go back to traditional, since I have the Roth IRA's as well. Maybe that is what my guy wants to talk to me about. :eek: ARE YOU MY GUY? :eek: Is your name Joe R.? :runaway:
if you're paying 25% or more on your top rate (the more over that, the stronger the case), i think you should put as much as you can into the traditional. that gives you more flexibility. you can convert the traditional to a roth (advantageously), you can't go the other way.
Post by: sys on January 31, 2014, 03:21:08 PM
Anyone have any experience with rolling over 401k's when you change jobs? May be changing soon and I was just planning on rolling it all into my roth IRA.
depends on your tax rate and how much you have in it. you might need to roll to a trad ira and then convert some each year to the roth.
Post by: raquetcat on January 31, 2014, 03:23:12 PM
Anyone have any experience with rolling over 401k's when you change jobs? May be changing soon and I was just planning on rolling it all into my roth IRA.You just contact the company who administers your 401k and tell them you want to roll it over, you fill out some forms and they put it into whatever account you tell them to, pretty easy. But I don't think you can move money from a regular 401k to a Roth IRA, you could just move it to your new 401k, or a regular IRA though
Post by: slobber on January 31, 2014, 03:23:48 PM
mad stacks now = shitload in retirement! :excited:dobber, i'm just guessing at your income and flexibility, but i think you should probably put some or all of your money into a traditional 401k instead of the roth.
yes, agreed here (using my own guesses) (my guess is that dobber makes mad stacks)
Post by: ben ji on January 31, 2014, 03:24:23 PM
Anyone have any experience with rolling over 401k's when you change jobs? May be changing soon and I was just planning on rolling it all into my roth IRA.
depends on your tax rate and how much you have in it. you might need to roll to a trad ira and then convert some each year to the roth.
Anyone have any experience with rolling over 401k's when you change jobs? May be changing soon and I was just planning on rolling it all into my roth IRA.You just contact the company who administers your 401k and tell them you want to roll it over, you fill out some forms and they put it into whatever account you tell them to, pretty easy. But I don't think you can move money from a regular 401k to a Roth IRA, you could just move it to your new 401k, or a regular IRA though
Gotcha, if it happens I'll look into the different options.
Post by: sys on January 31, 2014, 03:25:12 PM
But I don't think you can move money from a regular 401k to a Roth IRA.
you can, but it's taxed, obviously.
Post by: slobber on January 31, 2014, 03:29:26 PM
it really just matters what you make right now, not how you contributed to way back when (mostly)I have 3 kids and my wife doesn't work. I am not at the top of the tax bracket. I agree that one can make assumptions on those things as to whether or not it seems like the correct thing to do now; however, I think it is a guessing game as to what I will pay on my roth distributions. That is more as to what I was referring to. A lot of unknowns.
Am I wrong in thinking about it from that angle?
Post by: slobber on January 31, 2014, 03:31:37 PM
and I don't think you can use any of that money to pay the taxes.But I don't think you can move money from a regular 401k to a Roth IRA.
you can, but it's taxed, obviously.
Post by: ben ji on January 31, 2014, 03:32:48 PM
and I don't think you can use any of that money to pay the taxes.But I don't think you can move money from a regular 401k to a Roth IRA.
you can, but it's taxed, obviously.
Woof.
Post by: michigancat on January 31, 2014, 03:34:27 PM
dobber, i'm just guessing at your income and flexibility, but i think you should probably put some or all of your money into a traditional 401k instead of the roth.I couldn't convert what was in traditional 401k, and what the company contributes is still traditional. So I have a significant amount that is traditional and everything that I have invested over the past 5 years is Roth. I think it is a good mix. It is hard to know for certain what the taxes will be in the future, so having a mix feels right.
I have considered that maybe I should go back to traditional, since I have the Roth IRA's as well. Maybe that is what my guy wants to talk to me about. :eek: ARE YOU MY GUY? :eek: Is your name Joe R.? :runaway:
if you're paying 25% or more on your top rate (the more over that, the stronger the case), i think you should put as much as you can into the traditional. that gives you more flexibility. you can convert the traditional to a roth (advantageously), you can't go the other way.
do you have to itemize to get the tax advantages of a traditional, or is it like student loan interest? (I do not want to look it up).
Post by: meow meow on January 31, 2014, 03:46:27 PM
Post by: ben ji on January 31, 2014, 03:50:12 PM
Thanks, I'll listen off air.
Post by: meow meow on January 31, 2014, 03:54:08 PM
Question- Can you have a traditional IRA and a roth IRA? I assume yes. If you have both can you still only contribute a total of 5500 combined between the 2?
Thanks, I'll listen off air.
Pretty sure the 5500 is the Roth max
Look at me trying to answer questions, adorbs
Post by: michigancat on January 31, 2014, 03:54:44 PM
Question- Can you have a traditional IRA and a roth IRA? I assume yes. If you have both can you still only contribute a total of 5500 combined between the 2?
Thanks, I'll listen off air.
Pretty sure the 5500 is the Roth max
Look at me trying to answer questions, adorbs
no, it's 5500 combined. 401k is the workaround if it's available.
http://www.irs.gov/Retirement-Plans/Plan-Participant,-Employee/Retirement-Topics-IRA-Contribution-Limits
Post by: raquetcat on January 31, 2014, 04:04:33 PM
You can have both a regular and Roth IRA, and what Mich said above. Roth 401k s are super bossQuestion- Can you have a traditional IRA and a roth IRA? I assume yes. If you have both can you still only contribute a total of 5500 combined between the 2?
Thanks, I'll listen off air.
Pretty sure the 5500 is the Roth max
Look at me trying to answer questions, adorbs
no, it's 5500 combined. 401k is the workaround if it's available.
http://www.irs.gov/Retirement-Plans/Plan-Participant,-Employee/Retirement-Topics-IRA-Contribution-Limits
Post by: sys on January 31, 2014, 04:09:58 PM
do you have to itemize to get the tax advantages of a traditional, or is it like student loan interest? (I do not want to look it up).
i was talking about 401ks, not iras. but if you do a traditional ira, you can deduct it as well as a standard deduction.
Post by: sys on January 31, 2014, 04:12:06 PM
and I don't think you can use any of that money to pay the taxes.But I don't think you can move money from a regular 401k to a Roth IRA.
you can, but it's taxed, obviously.
you can. you shouldn't, if you don't have to, though.
Post by: sys on January 31, 2014, 04:13:43 PM
it really just matters what you make right now, not how you contributed to way back when (mostly)I have 3 kids and my wife doesn't work. I am not at the top of the tax bracket. I agree that one can make assumptions on those things as to whether or not it seems like the correct thing to do now; however, I think it is a guessing game as to what I will pay on my roth distributions. That is more as to what I was referring to. A lot of unknowns.
Am I wrong in thinking about it from that angle?
it's not completely a guessing game. you have a lot of control about when/if you convert, distribute, etc. you have more options within the traditional.
Post by: sys on January 31, 2014, 04:15:56 PM
I recently changed jobs so I rolled my old 401k to an IRA, so I have this IRA, my new 401k and mrs meow meow has a 401k. Thinking about taking this extra money and throwing some of it at this new rollover IRA? If nothing else for simplicity sake but also don't want to be a dumbass but rereading some of my latest posts that may be too late.
you're either going to have to post your tax rate, or figure it out yourself. more or less the only reason to choose a traditional v roth ira is because of tax rate.
Post by: meow meow on January 31, 2014, 04:19:03 PM
Post by: michigancat on January 31, 2014, 04:21:43 PM
do you have to itemize to get the tax advantages of a traditional, or is it like student loan interest? (I do not want to look it up).
i was talking about 401ks, not iras. but if you do a traditional ira, you can deduct it as well as a standard deduction.
I ask because I have had some very high-expenses/few-choices with some company 401k's.
Post by: sys on January 31, 2014, 04:27:39 PM
25% I think. Recap I have money going into a 401k and a Roth 401k, and I have a rollover IRA
i'd max out your traditional 401k first, assuming you have reasonable investments available to you through that plan. if you still have money left after that that is taxed at 25%, i'd go with the traditional ira (unless you think you might want to retire before 59, then maybe probably roth ira). if you can't max out your traditional with 25% money, i'd put however much of that money there is into roths (ira, 401k, both/whatever).
if you still have money left after maxing 401ks & iras then throw it at your hsa if it's not maxed or your kids, whatever. or eff the kids and invest it as taxable money.
Post by: sys on January 31, 2014, 04:28:53 PM
I ask because I have had some very high-expenses/few-choices with some company 401k's.
but you also change jobs every 3 years. rollitover&moveon.
Post by: meow meow on January 31, 2014, 04:34:36 PM
Post by: Brock Landers on January 31, 2014, 04:43:41 PM
I didn't think there was a max on 401k? I thought you could put like 99% of your paycheck in that if you wanted
Sure, if your salary is only $17500.
Post by: sys on January 31, 2014, 04:44:16 PM
I didn't think there was a max on 401k? I thought you could put like 99% of your paycheck in that if you wanted
17.5k is the max unless you are over 50. i think self-employed have some ridiculously high max (not sure), might be able to loophole more with a fake self employment.
Post by: michigancat on January 31, 2014, 04:45:48 PM
Post by: meow meow on January 31, 2014, 04:46:16 PM
Post by: sys on January 31, 2014, 04:51:54 PM
I don't think I'll ever make enough to max out my 401k and live comfortably. Will I die penniless?
yes, spend less and max out the 401k.
Post by: michigancat on January 31, 2014, 04:55:06 PM
I don't think I'll ever make enough to max out my 401k and live comfortably. Will I die penniless?
yes, spend less and max out the 401k.
I'm not sure I could do that.
Post by: j rake on January 31, 2014, 04:58:08 PM
You want to invest the 25k on Monday. How would you choose to invest it?
Post by: michigancat on January 31, 2014, 04:59:03 PM
In that case, I would probably start a record label.
Post by: j rake on January 31, 2014, 04:59:25 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on January 31, 2014, 05:00:57 PM
I don't think I'll ever make enough to max out my 401k and live comfortably. Will I die penniless?
yes, spend less and max out the 401k.
I'm not sure I could do that.
Don't listen to them.
Post by: michigancat on January 31, 2014, 05:06:07 PM
I don't think I'll ever make enough to max out my 401k and live comfortably. Will I die penniless?
yes, spend less and max out the 401k.
I'm not sure I could do that.
Don't listen to them.
they all make me feel very poor (money)
Post by: sys on January 31, 2014, 05:24:55 PM
Post by: sys on January 31, 2014, 05:25:41 PM
I'm asking for a friend who is new to investing. :blank:
you're a gambler, right? so you have a pretty decent tolerance for risk?
Post by: michigancat on January 31, 2014, 05:41:49 PM
why can't you max out your 401k? you're being ridiculous. you are paid a very nice salary.
I think you know why I can't and I'm amazed you haven't brought it up. (Kids is why)
Post by: sys on January 31, 2014, 05:44:24 PM
Post by: j rake on January 31, 2014, 06:16:50 PM
you have a pretty decent tolerance for risk?
calculated ones, sure.
Post by: sys on January 31, 2014, 07:03:02 PM
you have a pretty decent tolerance for risk?
calculated ones, sure.
investing should come pretty natural then. it's just like sports betting, but you get the vig instead of the house getting it.
Post by: j rake on January 31, 2014, 07:15:56 PM
investing should come pretty natural then. it's just like sports betting, but you get the vig instead of the house getting it.
so what would you do?
Post by: sys on January 31, 2014, 07:32:43 PM
investing should come pretty natural then. it's just like sports betting, but you get the vig instead of the house getting it.
so what would you do?
i'd put my money down. are you looking for recommendos on specific stocks? that won't work - you have to do enough of your own research to convince yourself you know what you're doing.
Post by: Dugout DickStone on January 31, 2014, 07:36:14 PM
Either that or put money down on a rental in a college town
Post by: kim carnes on January 31, 2014, 07:46:38 PM
edit: i'm joking, though it could end up fine
Post by: sys on February 01, 2014, 09:18:50 PM
read, then fire joe r.
http://johncbogle.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/FAJ-All-In-Investment-Expenses-Jan-Feb-2014.pdf
Post by: sys on February 01, 2014, 09:22:17 PM
Post by: j rake on February 02, 2014, 12:09:40 AM
i'd put my money down. are you looking for recommendos on specific stocks? that won't work - you have to do enough of your own research to convince yourself you know what you're doing.
pick a stock! if it doesn't perform, i'll ask for a refund and try a different one.
Post by: sys on February 06, 2014, 02:38:43 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 06, 2014, 02:41:05 PM
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pionline.com%2Fstoryimage%2FCO%2F20110725%2FPRINT%2F307259977%2FV2%2F0%2F072511-james-montier.jpg&hash=5b656799dc346e2e2b9b448ed2ab2d49ad337caa)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fondstrends.ch%2Fuploads%2Fpics%2FGMO_James_Montier_01.jpg&hash=569480629c3453d691e75a757368349e30cc06d8)
Post by: michigancat on February 06, 2014, 02:47:11 PM
https://www.gmo.com/America/CMSAttachmentDownload.aspx?target=JUBRxi51IIBEIq6GNuTKr%2bf2o0WPxzkpzr%2bP3HvjlK76FjNoPoANwwlALT63inFW79ZpF3%2flV38cZqUS7omOesbovw5OtEXWvLdvJOMPjKplKGSys5%2byS6cvvjNvW5SS
can I get a summary pls
Post by: Emo EMAW on February 06, 2014, 03:00:21 PM
Post by: sys on February 06, 2014, 03:07:59 PM
can I get a summary pls
don't expect to make much money, dumbasses. lol.
Post by: sys on February 06, 2014, 03:13:42 PM
Can we discuss how much Prudential 401k's suck? The fund options suck big floppy donkey dick.
i think most 401ks suck. mine does.
Post by: reidrolled on February 06, 2014, 06:23:52 PM
investing should come pretty natural then. it's just like sports betting, but you get the vig instead of the house getting it.
so what would you do?
NVO makes something like 50% of the worlds insulin. you think diabetes is on the decline anytime soon? forgetaboutit
Post by: michigancat on February 06, 2014, 07:06:30 PM
can I get a summary pls
don't expect to make much money, dumbasses. lol.
his conclusion made it seem so easy. Just buy cheap assets.
Post by: sys on February 06, 2014, 07:28:46 PM
Post by: Emo EMAW on February 06, 2014, 08:24:04 PM
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
Post by: Emo EMAW on February 06, 2014, 08:24:30 PM
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
Post by: sys on February 06, 2014, 08:52:19 PM
Post by: Emo EMAW on February 07, 2014, 08:53:34 AM
if i did, i don't remember it. in this thread?
It was in the birther pit somewhere. One of these douches who changed their name posted it. CF3 maybe? (I like them BTW, just annoying because I suck at keeping people straight on here.)
I'll try to find it and post here again, although I know I will regret it if you just tear it apart, because it was overwhelmingly optimistic.
Post by: Emo EMAW on February 07, 2014, 08:55:31 AM
Post by: sys on February 07, 2014, 02:34:51 PM
Post by: ben ji on February 07, 2014, 07:20:29 PM
if i did, i don't remember it. in this thread?
It was in the birther pit somewhere. One of these douches who changed their name posted it. CF3 maybe? (I like them BTW, just annoying because I suck at keeping people straight on here.)
I'll try to find it and post here again, although I know I will regret it if you just tear it apart, because it was overwhelmingly optimistic.
That was me, dick
Post by: Emo EMAW on February 07, 2014, 07:31:14 PM
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
Post by: ben ji on February 12, 2014, 10:41:14 AM
The stock? HEMP
Yup, penny stock.
Post by: Johnny Wichita on February 19, 2014, 10:25:45 AM
:runaway:
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on February 19, 2014, 10:35:42 AM
Sell all of your stocks right now. You're welcome.
:runaway:
I concur with this statement.
Post by: Emo EMAW on February 19, 2014, 10:38:53 AM
Post by: ben ji on February 19, 2014, 10:44:18 AM
Guys what's happening?
DONT ASK QUESTIONS JUST SELL SELL SELL :runaway: :runaway: :runaway:
but seriously no idea what JW was talking about.
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on February 19, 2014, 11:19:33 AM
Post by: Emo EMAW on February 19, 2014, 11:21:15 AM
Post by: wetwillie on February 19, 2014, 12:27:18 PM
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on February 19, 2014, 12:30:09 PM
Anybody have a significant position in Zales? Got a hot tip a few months ago to throw my nest egg into it :kstategrad:
yes. wink once for buy and wink twice for sell. don't wanna get caught for insider trading.
Post by: EMAWmeister on February 19, 2014, 12:48:55 PM
Anybody have a significant position in Zales? Got a hot tip a few months ago to throw my nest egg into it :kstategrad:
yes. wink once for buy and wink twice for sell. don't wanna get caught for insider trading.
Well good, because wetWillie isn't an insider.
Post by: Emo EMAW on February 19, 2014, 12:51:50 PM
Post by: wetwillie on February 19, 2014, 10:25:39 PM
Guys I think wetwillie is saying he's about to get engaged.
Oh, I thought he was hinting that he knew about Signet acquiring zales before it announced it publicly.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on March 16, 2014, 02:33:36 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: sys on March 16, 2014, 02:40:57 PM
770 account.. Has anyone heard of this or heard of anyone that actually has one? Seems like a lot of smoke and mirrors
seems like if you have a lot of money, and are more concerned with taxes than returns, it might make sense.
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on April 23, 2014, 01:06:04 PM
Post by: ben ji on May 01, 2014, 10:37:21 PM
Anyone have any experience with rolling over 401k's when you change jobs? May be changing soon and I was just planning on rolling it all into my roth IRA.
depends on your tax rate and how much you have in it. you might need to roll to a trad ira and then convert some each year to the roth.Anyone have any experience with rolling over 401k's when you change jobs? May be changing soon and I was just planning on rolling it all into my roth IRA.You just contact the company who administers your 401k and tell them you want to roll it over, you fill out some forms and they put it into whatever account you tell them to, pretty easy. But I don't think you can move money from a regular 401k to a Roth IRA, you could just move it to your new 401k, or a regular IRA though
Gotcha, if it happens I'll look into the different options.
So I switched jobs and ended up rolling my old 401k into an IRA, just sitting there as cash right now.
Planning on looking at different options tomorrow but more than likely I'll put 50% in a SP500 index fund then divide the rest between different Industry/Geographic funds or whatever I find interesting.
Is there any advantage to spacing out my purchases over a longer period of time or should I just pull the trigger whenever I feel comfortable with my decisions?
Post by: michigancat on May 01, 2014, 10:59:49 PM
Anyone have any experience with rolling over 401k's when you change jobs? May be changing soon and I was just planning on rolling it all into my roth IRA.
depends on your tax rate and how much you have in it. you might need to roll to a trad ira and then convert some each year to the roth.Anyone have any experience with rolling over 401k's when you change jobs? May be changing soon and I was just planning on rolling it all into my roth IRA.You just contact the company who administers your 401k and tell them you want to roll it over, you fill out some forms and they put it into whatever account you tell them to, pretty easy. But I don't think you can move money from a regular 401k to a Roth IRA, you could just move it to your new 401k, or a regular IRA though
Gotcha, if it happens I'll look into the different options.
So I switched jobs and ended up rolling my old 401k into an IRA, just sitting there as cash right now.
Planning on looking at different options tomorrow but more than likely I'll put 50% in a SP500 index fund then divide the rest between different Industry/Geographic funds or whatever I find interesting.
Is there any advantage to spacing out my purchases over a longer period of time or should I just pull the trigger whenever I feel comfortable with my decisions?
Why roll it over to cash? You don't need to roll it over if you liked your options before.
Post by: ben ji on May 01, 2014, 11:08:41 PM
Post by: eastcat on May 02, 2014, 12:53:35 AM
Post by: steve dave on May 02, 2014, 06:09:16 AM
Right now isn't really a good time to enter the market, the SP500 is a pretty low yield index, the companies are all mature. If you have a long time horizon you should be steering towards a NASDAQ or IPO index that is tech and growth based.
Hey eastcat, 1999 called and would like their investment advice back
Post by: IPA4Me on May 02, 2014, 06:14:54 AM
Post by: Tobias on May 02, 2014, 07:02:02 AM
Hey eastcat, 1999 called and would like their investment advice back
he wasn't alive for the dot com bubble :surprised:
Post by: steve dave on May 02, 2014, 07:28:37 AM
Hey eastcat, 1999 called and would like their investment advice back
he wasn't alive for the dot com bubble :surprised:
lies
Post by: slobber on May 02, 2014, 07:45:09 AM
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on May 02, 2014, 08:13:02 AM
Post by: Tobias on May 02, 2014, 08:26:47 AM
lies
eastcat you goddamn racist rascal :shakesfist:
Post by: Emo EMAW on May 02, 2014, 08:44:09 AM
Post by: The Big Train on May 04, 2014, 11:52:10 PM
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on May 07, 2014, 09:07:00 AM
Post by: Emo EMAW on May 07, 2014, 09:09:39 AM
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on May 07, 2014, 09:12:08 AM
So I haven't consolidated my 401 K from like three different companies. This is very naive, but it's still out there, right? Do I just need to contact fidelity and ask them to collect my past 401 K's from other companies? Is this a lot of work?
Call the old companies and get rollover/transfer paperwork.
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on May 07, 2014, 09:12:44 AM
Post by: Mrs. Gooch on May 07, 2014, 09:21:34 AM
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on May 07, 2014, 09:24:26 AM
Make sure you send the disbursement checks directly into your new 401K, not cash them, or else you will end up paying a bunch of penalties.Yeah, don't they tax you like 40% or something crazy like that?
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on May 07, 2014, 09:28:44 AM
Make sure you send the disbursement checks directly into your new 401K, not cash them, or else you will end up paying a bunch of penalties.Yeah, don't they tax you like 40% or something crazy like that?
If you don't put it into an IRA within 60 days of withdrawal then yes, they tax the crap out of it.
Post by: michigancat on May 07, 2014, 10:33:35 AM
My wife just rolled over one 401k to another. Takes a few days but was pretty easy. They had to physically mail her a check which she then mailed to the other folks.
It's a huge pain in the ass compared to how easy it should be.
Post by: meow meow on May 07, 2014, 10:44:41 AM
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on May 07, 2014, 10:46:23 AM
I left a job about a year ago, and that 401k is now a traditional IRA, in which I don't make any contributions to currently, it's just all of the old money from when i was at my old job. Now at my new job, I have a different 401k. I should get that IRA rolled into my 401k shouldn't I? It will grow a lot faster will all of the money in one place, no?
You can't do that. Just leave it in the IRA then when you leave your current job, rollover that 401k into said TradIRA.
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on May 07, 2014, 10:49:26 AM
Post by: Brock Landers on May 07, 2014, 10:50:53 AM
I left a job about a year ago, and that 401k is now a traditional IRA, in which I don't make any contributions to currently, it's just all of the old money from when i was at my old job. Now at my new job, I have a different 401k. I should get that IRA rolled into my 401k shouldn't I? It will grow a lot faster will all of the money in one place, no?
You can't do that. Just leave it in the IRA then when you leave your current job, rollover that 401k into said TradIRA.
Sure he can, as long as his plan allows for Rollovers in from other sources of money. If he's not making contributions to the IRA there's no sense it leaving it as it is.
Post by: meow meow on May 07, 2014, 10:51:31 AM
I left a job about a year ago, and that 401k is now a traditional IRA, in which I don't make any contributions to currently, it's just all of the old money from when i was at my old job. Now at my new job, I have a different 401k. I should get that IRA rolled into my 401k shouldn't I? It will grow a lot faster will all of the money in one place, no?
You can't do that. Just leave it in the IRA then when you leave your current job, rollover that 401k into said TradIRA.
Thanks real life Ell Roberson III.
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on May 07, 2014, 10:52:56 AM
I left a job about a year ago, and that 401k is now a traditional IRA, in which I don't make any contributions to currently, it's just all of the old money from when i was at my old job. Now at my new job, I have a different 401k. I should get that IRA rolled into my 401k shouldn't I? It will grow a lot faster will all of the money in one place, no?
You can't do that. Just leave it in the IRA then when you leave your current job, rollover that 401k into said TradIRA.
I mean, technically it's possible to rollover 401k to 401k but it's stupid and you shouldn't do it. A lot of plans won't accept it.
Post by: michigancat on May 07, 2014, 10:54:23 AM
I left a job about a year ago, and that 401k is now a traditional IRA, in which I don't make any contributions to currently, it's just all of the old money from when i was at my old job. Now at my new job, I have a different 401k. I should get that IRA rolled into my 401k shouldn't I? It will grow a lot faster will all of the money in one place, no?
You can't do that. Just leave it in the IRA then when you leave your current job, rollover that 401k into said TradIRA.
Sure he can, as long as his plan allows for Rollovers in from other sources of money. If he's not making contributions to the IRA there's no sense it leaving it as it is.
If he's happy with his investment options there's no sense moving it. It would actually be pretty stupid to roll in to a plan with inferior options.
Post by: hemmy on May 07, 2014, 10:56:38 AM
Post by: Emo EMAW on May 07, 2014, 10:57:19 AM
My wife just rolled over one 401k to another. Takes a few days but was pretty easy. They had to physically mail her a check which she then mailed to the other folks.
It's a huge pain in the ass compared to how easy it should be.
Why can't it be just routing and account numbers? Why not? Tell me!
Post by: michigancat on May 07, 2014, 10:58:55 AM
Fidelity completely f'd up my HSA transfer back at the beginning of the year. Took them forever to get it right.
Yep, I've requested transfers, and the check got lost or something. It's actually a humongous pain in the ass.
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on May 07, 2014, 10:59:41 AM
Crap. Not looking fwd to this now.Fidelity completely f'd up my HSA transfer back at the beginning of the year. Took them forever to get it right.
Yep, I've requested transfers, and the check got lost or something. It's actually a humongous pain in the ass.
Post by: Brock Landers on May 07, 2014, 11:06:16 AM
I left a job about a year ago, and that 401k is now a traditional IRA, in which I don't make any contributions to currently, it's just all of the old money from when i was at my old job. Now at my new job, I have a different 401k. I should get that IRA rolled into my 401k shouldn't I? It will grow a lot faster will all of the money in one place, no?
You can't do that. Just leave it in the IRA then when you leave your current job, rollover that 401k into said TradIRA.
Sure he can, as long as his plan allows for Rollovers in from other sources of money. If he's not making contributions to the IRA there's no sense it leaving it as it is.
If he's happy with his investment options there's no sense moving it. It would actually be pretty stupid to roll in to a plan with inferior options.
Where did he say he was happy with his IRA's investment options or that his 401k plan had inferior options? The IRA will never do anything for him if he's not contributing to it. The real issue here is how come meow meow is not contributing to his IRA
Post by: meow meow on May 07, 2014, 11:08:06 AM
I left a job about a year ago, and that 401k is now a traditional IRA, in which I don't make any contributions to currently, it's just all of the old money from when i was at my old job. Now at my new job, I have a different 401k. I should get that IRA rolled into my 401k shouldn't I? It will grow a lot faster will all of the money in one place, no?
You can't do that. Just leave it in the IRA then when you leave your current job, rollover that 401k into said TradIRA.
Sure he can, as long as his plan allows for Rollovers in from other sources of money. If he's not making contributions to the IRA there's no sense it leaving it as it is.
If he's happy with his investment options there's no sense moving it. It would actually be pretty stupid to roll in to a plan with inferior options.
Where did he say he was happy with his IRA's investment options or that his 401k plan had inferior options? The IRA will never do anything for him if he's not contributing to it. The real issue here is how come meow meow is not contributing to his IRA
Becausing I'm contributing a lot to my 401k. Should I just be contributing enough to get the company match, and invest the rest in the IRA? Lets assuming the investment options are pretty much the same.
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on May 07, 2014, 11:09:00 AM
I left a job about a year ago, and that 401k is now a traditional IRA, in which I don't make any contributions to currently, it's just all of the old money from when i was at my old job. Now at my new job, I have a different 401k. I should get that IRA rolled into my 401k shouldn't I? It will grow a lot faster will all of the money in one place, no?
You can't do that. Just leave it in the IRA then when you leave your current job, rollover that 401k into said TradIRA.
Sure he can, as long as his plan allows for Rollovers in from other sources of money. If he's not making contributions to the IRA there's no sense it leaving it as it is.
If he's happy with his investment options there's no sense moving it. It would actually be pretty stupid to roll in to a plan with inferior options.
Where did he say he was happy with his IRA's investment options or that his 401k plan had inferior options? The IRA will never do anything for him if he's not contributing to it. The real issue here is how come meow meow is not contributing to his IRA
You must have missed the first word of mc's post.
Post by: michigancat on May 07, 2014, 11:23:51 AM
I left a job about a year ago, and that 401k is now a traditional IRA, in which I don't make any contributions to currently, it's just all of the old money from when i was at my old job. Now at my new job, I have a different 401k. I should get that IRA rolled into my 401k shouldn't I? It will grow a lot faster will all of the money in one place, no?
You can't do that. Just leave it in the IRA then when you leave your current job, rollover that 401k into said TradIRA.
Sure he can, as long as his plan allows for Rollovers in from other sources of money. If he's not making contributions to the IRA there's no sense it leaving it as it is.
If he's happy with his investment options there's no sense moving it. It would actually be pretty stupid to roll in to a plan with inferior options.
Where did he say he was happy with his IRA's investment options or that his 401k plan had inferior options? The IRA will never do anything for him if he's not contributing to it. The real issue here is how come meow meow is not contributing to his IRA
Becausing I'm contributing a lot to my 401k. Should I just be contributing enough to get the company match, and invest the rest in the IRA? Lets assuming the investment options are pretty much the same.
Do you like your investment options in your 401k? Are you in a high tax bracket? If you're in a lower tax bracket already, contribute to a Roth beyond your company match.
Post by: meow meow on May 07, 2014, 11:30:30 AM
Post by: michigancat on May 07, 2014, 11:34:30 AM
only the 25% bracket, maybe i should put more into the roth (already putting about 6% into roth)
If you're putting 6% into your Roth already along with (I'm guessing) 6% into your 401k, you're probably fine either way. I'd probably go for the account with the lowest fee options, (likely the Roth).
Post by: meow meow on May 07, 2014, 11:41:03 AM
only the 25% bracket, maybe i should put more into the roth (already putting about 6% into roth)
If you're putting 6% into your Roth already along with (I'm guessing) 6% into your 401k, you're probably fine either way. I'd probably go for the account with the lowest fee options, (likely the Roth).
actually more into the 401k, so maybe i'll look into switching more of it to roth. so many options! thanks for the info/help
Post by: sys on May 07, 2014, 09:44:45 PM
as should be obvious, putting your ira into the 401k would be dumb.
Post by: slobber on May 08, 2014, 05:15:35 AM
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: sys on May 09, 2014, 01:55:33 AM
sys is right, but kind of mean. Take home message: mean people know about financial stuff?
i thought i was being nice. :blank:
i put down some bermuda-killing chemicals last weekend. really looking forward to seeing their dead little bodies when i get home (i may have sprayed all wrong though).
Post by: EMAWmeister on June 01, 2014, 02:48:36 AM
Post by: steve dave on June 01, 2014, 06:58:17 AM
I don't believe in timing the markets, but as a new grad starting his investment life, getting in at the record highs is not very profitable correct?
No
Post by: wetwillie on June 01, 2014, 09:44:09 AM
Post by: slobber on June 01, 2014, 09:50:47 AM
Post by: kim carnes on June 01, 2014, 11:21:05 AM
I don't believe in timing the markets, but as a new grad starting his investment life, getting in at the record highs is not very profitable correct?
It's not like you're throwing 100k into the mkt all at once
Post by: sys on June 01, 2014, 11:52:52 AM
I don't believe in timing the markets, but as a new grad starting his investment life, getting in at the record highs is not very profitable correct?
there's always something cheap.
Post by: meow meow on June 10, 2014, 09:44:33 AM
Post by: Daddy Claxton on June 10, 2014, 10:59:45 AM
Anyway, I ended up paying him a flat fee and he got my current portfolio in proper order, which was worth the cost to me. I sold a bunch of my employers stock, and my "guy" wasn't as specific as I had hoped about what to do with the proceeds. So I bought a subscription to Fidelity Monitor and Insight* and just follow their model portfolios. They send me an email every Friday telling me what to buy/sell. Probably not ideal for everyone, but it works well for what I want/need and costs less than a "guy".
*fidelityinsight.com
Post by: Kat Kid on June 10, 2014, 11:36:20 AM
1. buy 3BR home for $100K
2. 15yr Mortgage ~$750/mo (absurdly high)
3. Rent ~$1000/mo (low)
assuming $1500/yr in upkeep (absurdly high) you make min. $1500/yr for 15 yrs then either sell property and be done with it, upgrade to a nicer property or roll the profits in to a second cheap property.
Anyone done this? Anyone doing this? How big a pain is this assuming you live in the same town?
(rick daris bait)
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 10, 2014, 11:43:00 AM
Assuming you have the principal (~$15-$20K) to find a decent rental property why shouldn't someone:
1. buy 3BR home for $100K
2. 15yr Mortgage ~$750/mo (absurdly high)
3. Rent ~$1000/mo (low)
assuming $1500/yr in upkeep (absurdly high) you make min. $1500/yr for 15 yrs then either sell property and be done with it, upgrade to a nicer property or roll the profits in to a second cheap property.
Anyone done this? Anyone doing this? How big a pain is this assuming you live in the same town?
(rick daris bait)
Doing this. Outcome unknown.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
Post by: Mrs. Gooch on June 10, 2014, 11:43:46 AM
Assuming you have the principal (~$15-$20K) to find a decent rental property why shouldn't someone:
1. buy 3BR home for $100K
2. 15yr Mortgage ~$750/mo (absurdly high)
3. Rent ~$1000/mo (low)
assuming $1500/yr in upkeep (absurdly high) you make min. $1500/yr for 15 yrs then either sell property and be done with it, upgrade to a nicer property or roll the profits in to a second cheap property.
Anyone done this? Anyone doing this? How big a pain is this assuming you live in the same town?
(rick daris bait)
Depends on the renters.
Post by: 8manpick on June 10, 2014, 11:48:51 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on June 10, 2014, 11:51:54 AM
Seems like a lot of work for 1500 a year
I think realistically you would make ~$3-4,000. In addition you would make turn $20,000 in to $102,500 in 15 years. That is a pretty good return.
Post by: raquetcat on June 10, 2014, 11:52:47 AM
Rental properties are usually a good investment, it's just a matter of how much hassle you're willing to deal with. Did you add insurance into your model somewhere?Assuming you have the principal (~$15-$20K) to find a decent rental property why shouldn't someone:
1. buy 3BR home for $100K
2. 15yr Mortgage ~$750/mo (absurdly high)
3. Rent ~$1000/mo (low)
assuming $1500/yr in upkeep (absurdly high) you make min. $1500/yr for 15 yrs then either sell property and be done with it, upgrade to a nicer property or roll the profits in to a second cheap property.
Anyone done this? Anyone doing this? How big a pain is this assuming you live in the same town?
(rick daris bait)
Depends on the renters.
Post by: michigancat on June 10, 2014, 11:58:04 AM
Assuming you have the principal (~$15-$20K) to find a decent rental property why shouldn't someone:
1. buy 3BR home for $100K
2. 15yr Mortgage ~$750/mo (absurdly high)
3. Rent ~$1000/mo (low)
assuming $1500/yr in upkeep (absurdly high) you make min. $1500/yr for 15 yrs then either sell property and be done with it, upgrade to a nicer property or roll the profits in to a second cheap property.
Anyone done this? Anyone doing this? How big a pain is this assuming you live in the same town?
(rick daris bait)
1500/year in upkeep does not seem absurdly low. You also have to account for crappy tenants and vacancy and time spent hounding for rent, fixing crap, etc. Basically it could be fine, but it could also be a huge pain in the ass in a place like MHK with so many short term residents.
Why not just put $15k + $750/month in the stock market?
Post by: steve dave on June 10, 2014, 12:03:35 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on June 10, 2014, 12:24:35 PM
Assuming you have the principal (~$15-$20K) to find a decent rental property why shouldn't someone:
1. buy 3BR home for $100K
2. 15yr Mortgage ~$750/mo (absurdly high)
3. Rent ~$1000/mo (low)
assuming $1500/yr in upkeep (absurdly high) you make min. $1500/yr for 15 yrs then either sell property and be done with it, upgrade to a nicer property or roll the profits in to a second cheap property.
Anyone done this? Anyone doing this? How big a pain is this assuming you live in the same town?
(rick daris bait)
1500/year in upkeep does not seem absurdly low. You also have to account for crappy tenants and vacancy and time spent hounding for rent, fixing crap, etc. Basically it could be fine, but it could also be a huge pain in the ass in a place like MHK with so many short term residents.
Why not just put $15k + $750/month in the stock market?
The $750/mo doesn't come out of "my" end. It is covered by rent.
Post by: Kat Kid on June 10, 2014, 12:26:09 PM
Assuming you have the principal (~$15-$20K) to find a decent rental property why shouldn't someone:
1. buy 3BR home for $100K
2. 15yr Mortgage ~$750/mo (absurdly high)
3. Rent ~$1000/mo (low)
assuming $1500/yr in upkeep (absurdly high) you make min. $1500/yr for 15 yrs then either sell property and be done with it, upgrade to a nicer property or roll the profits in to a second cheap property.
Anyone done this? Anyone doing this? How big a pain is this assuming you live in the same town?
(rick daris bait)
1500/year in upkeep does not seem absurdly low. You also have to account for crappy tenants and vacancy and time spent hounding for rent, fixing crap, etc. Basically it could be fine, but it could also be a huge pain in the ass in a place like MHK with so many short term residents.
Why not just put $15k + $750/month in the stock market?
Vacancy rates in MHK? LoL ok. The $1500 is for fixing stuff. And obviously the sweat equity is the big difference between this and investing in the stock market.
Post by: michigancat on June 10, 2014, 12:27:42 PM
Assuming you have the principal (~$15-$20K) to find a decent rental property why shouldn't someone:
1. buy 3BR home for $100K
2. 15yr Mortgage ~$750/mo (absurdly high)
3. Rent ~$1000/mo (low)
assuming $1500/yr in upkeep (absurdly high) you make min. $1500/yr for 15 yrs then either sell property and be done with it, upgrade to a nicer property or roll the profits in to a second cheap property.
Anyone done this? Anyone doing this? How big a pain is this assuming you live in the same town?
(rick daris bait)
1500/year in upkeep does not seem absurdly low. You also have to account for crappy tenants and vacancy and time spent hounding for rent, fixing crap, etc. Basically it could be fine, but it could also be a huge pain in the ass in a place like MHK with so many short term residents.
Why not just put $15k + $750/month in the stock market?
The $750/mo doesn't come out of "my" end. It is covered by rent.
yeah, dumb post by me.
Post by: michigancat on June 10, 2014, 12:29:02 PM
Assuming you have the principal (~$15-$20K) to find a decent rental property why shouldn't someone:
1. buy 3BR home for $100K
2. 15yr Mortgage ~$750/mo (absurdly high)
3. Rent ~$1000/mo (low)
assuming $1500/yr in upkeep (absurdly high) you make min. $1500/yr for 15 yrs then either sell property and be done with it, upgrade to a nicer property or roll the profits in to a second cheap property.
Anyone done this? Anyone doing this? How big a pain is this assuming you live in the same town?
(rick daris bait)
1500/year in upkeep does not seem absurdly low. You also have to account for crappy tenants and vacancy and time spent hounding for rent, fixing crap, etc. Basically it could be fine, but it could also be a huge pain in the ass in a place like MHK with so many short term residents.
Why not just put $15k + $750/month in the stock market?
Vacancy rates in MHK? LoL ok. The $1500 is for fixing stuff. And obviously the sweat equity is the big difference between this and investing in the stock market.
OK, go for it. You obviously can't lose.
Post by: steve dave on June 10, 2014, 12:35:29 PM
Post by: wetwillie on June 10, 2014, 12:43:33 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on June 10, 2014, 12:46:17 PM
Post by: michigancat on June 10, 2014, 12:49:17 PM
100k seems really low as a purchase price in mhk for a decent income producing property. I think real estate is a good investment in mhk though.
Yes, also I'm not sure what type of tenant is drawn to a $1000/month 3BR in Manhattan (I have no idea what the market is like, but that would have been reasonable for a student slum 10 years ago). I guess these numbers could be hypothetical though so who knows.
Post by: Kat Kid on June 10, 2014, 12:53:33 PM
100k seems really low as a purchase price in mhk for a decent income producing property. I think real estate is a good investment in mhk though.
Probably more like $120K purchase $100K mortgage. That would maybe make the numbers a bit more realistic. I did a quick mortgage calc at 15 yr and 5% with no PMI and property taxes baked in then rounded up to the nearest $50. But that was on an $80k mortgage.
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 10, 2014, 01:07:30 PM
Post by: 06wildcat on June 10, 2014, 01:17:49 PM
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on June 10, 2014, 01:28:48 PM
I was mostly trolling for Daris to weigh in.
if you aren't very handy and don't like dealing with/talking to people all the time about money they owe and crap they think you need to fix, then i don't recommend it.
Post by: Boom Roasted on June 10, 2014, 01:37:54 PM
Insurance
1500 per year is average but what about when the furnace or AC go out? Roof? Each of those is basically double your yearly average.
Post by: Kat Kid on June 10, 2014, 01:56:51 PM
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on June 10, 2014, 02:12:26 PM
Post by: meow meow on June 10, 2014, 02:24:06 PM
Post by: sys on June 10, 2014, 03:13:31 PM
Post by: sys on June 10, 2014, 03:14:45 PM
What are some good investment options for money that you still want to be fairly liquid. CD rates look pretty low, savings accounts obviously suck.
liquid or safe? you can invest in tons of things that are fairly liquid. but you aren't going to find an attractive return on anything that's risk-free.
Post by: steve dave on June 10, 2014, 03:16:01 PM
Post by: 06wildcat on June 10, 2014, 03:29:59 PM
yeah, stocks are liquid, mutual funds are liquid, gold is liquid. buying a business or some land or art and stuff isn't liquid.
Just use the asset to secure a line of credit. Boom. Liquid.
Post by: wetwillie on June 10, 2014, 06:39:47 PM
What are some good investment options for money that you still want to be fairly liquid. CD rates look pretty low, savings accounts obviously suck.
You are confusing insurance and investment here I think.
Post by: meow meow on June 10, 2014, 08:45:22 PM
Post by: ben ji on June 10, 2014, 08:50:08 PM
Assuming you have the principal (~$15-$20K) to find a decent rental property why shouldn't someone:
1. buy 3BR home for $100K
2. 15yr Mortgage ~$750/mo (absurdly high)
3. Rent ~$1000/mo (low)
assuming $1500/yr in upkeep (absurdly high) you make min. $1500/yr for 15 yrs then either sell property and be done with it, upgrade to a nicer property or roll the profits in to a second cheap property.
Anyone done this? Anyone doing this? How big a pain is this assuming you live in the same town?
(rick daris bait)
This is pretty much my plan with the house I live in now, 13 years left on mortgage and similar numbers to what you posted.
Assuming that in 13 years I still live in the same city and have little uns running around(with ultra light fishing poles) I'll buy a bigger house out and rent my current house. The plan is to form a Ben Ji Properties LLC and never ever ever ever turn a profit. Whatever doesnt go back into a house will be used to scope out new "Properties" in various cities I feel like visiting on vacation.
ABSOLUTELY NO NEGATIVE REPEROCUSSIONS(or whatever wacky's 2nd most famous catchphrase is)
Post by: ben ji on June 10, 2014, 08:50:33 PM
Say you have money sitting in a saving account or equivalent. Money isn't making crap but it's nice for an emergency/piece of mind. However, there are probably better places to put it, while at the same time it would be nice for it to be liquid enough that I could pull it to buy a bigger house or something. Mutual funds outside of a 401k/retirement account?
Do you have a Roth IRA?
Post by: meow meow on June 10, 2014, 09:25:47 PM
Say you have money sitting in a saving account or equivalent. Money isn't making crap but it's nice for an emergency/piece of mind. However, there are probably better places to put it, while at the same time it would be nice for it to be liquid enough that I could pull it to buy a bigger house or something. Mutual funds outside of a 401k/retirement account?
Do you have a Roth IRA?
Yeah
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 10, 2014, 09:26:46 PM
Say you have money sitting in a saving account or equivalent. Money isn't making crap but it's nice for an emergency/piece of mind. However, there are probably better places to put it, while at the same time it would be nice for it to be liquid enough that I could pull it to buy a bigger house or something. Mutual funds outside of a 401k/retirement account?
Do you have a Roth IRA?
Yeah
Well there you go.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
Post by: Asteriskhead on June 10, 2014, 10:19:42 PM
Post by: meow meow on June 10, 2014, 10:27:48 PM
Say you have money sitting in a saving account or equivalent. Money isn't making crap but it's nice for an emergency/piece of mind. However, there are probably better places to put it, while at the same time it would be nice for it to be liquid enough that I could pull it to buy a bigger house or something. Mutual funds outside of a 401k/retirement account?
Do you have a Roth IRA?
Yeah
Well there you go.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
You can only contribute 5500/year tho
Post by: Kat Kid on June 10, 2014, 10:42:44 PM
kk, my parents did that for a while. it's a huge pain in the ass. but tons of people have made lots of money in mom & pop real estate rentals. i wouldn't make the decision as an investment choice, more a how do i want to live my life choice.
Ok. NEW IDEA!
I take $10-15,000 from my IRA and invest it with my friends that are managing their rental property.
#nextlevel #retirement #achievementunlocked #win
Post by: michigancat on June 11, 2014, 12:10:50 AM
Post by: Tobias on June 11, 2014, 12:20:26 AM
investing with friends always goes well
maybe they're family
Post by: michigancat on June 11, 2014, 12:22:59 AM
investing with friends always goes well
maybe they're family
either way no negative consequences
Post by: Tobias on June 11, 2014, 12:23:14 AM
Post by: slobber on June 11, 2014, 12:28:35 AM
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: Kat Kid on June 11, 2014, 12:38:07 AM
Post by: Tobias on June 11, 2014, 12:39:26 AM
Post by: ksupamplemousse on June 11, 2014, 02:30:57 AM
Say you have money sitting in a saving account or equivalent. Money isn't making crap but it's nice for an emergency/piece of mind. However, there are probably better places to put it, while at the same time it would be nice for it to be liquid enough that I could pull it to buy a bigger house or something. Mutual funds outside of a 401k/retirement account?
Do you have a Roth IRA?
Yeah
Well there you go.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
You can only contribute 5500/year tho
Also, not that liquid, pretty big penalty/taxes for early withdrawal/non-qualified distribution.
Post by: ben ji on June 11, 2014, 04:16:01 AM
Say you have money sitting in a saving account or equivalent. Money isn't making crap but it's nice for an emergency/piece of mind. However, there are probably better places to put it, while at the same time it would be nice for it to be liquid enough that I could pull it to buy a bigger house or something. Mutual funds outside of a 401k/retirement account?
Do you have a Roth IRA?
Yeah
Well there you go.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
You can only contribute 5500/year tho
Also, not that liquid, pretty big penalty/taxes for early withdrawal/non-qualified distribution.
:facepalm:
Post by: steve dave on June 11, 2014, 06:51:16 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on June 11, 2014, 07:17:13 AM
when I hit rock bottom and get into the pyramid scheme game I'm hitting up KK first day.
Are you elevator pitching me pyramid pizza crossed with scheme?
My only question: Aggieville or Poyntz?......or World wide launch?!
Post by: Kat Kid on June 11, 2014, 07:18:21 AM
Post by: CrushNasty on July 31, 2014, 01:43:52 PM
Is this the best investing thread on gE? (other than how many credit cards thread)
Post by: slobber on July 31, 2014, 03:24:14 PM
Started really playing this investing game hard this year. Hard to sit still now. :billdance:like constantly buying and selling?
Is this the best investing thread on gE? (other than how many credit cards thread)
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: CrushNasty on July 31, 2014, 03:25:36 PM
Started really playing this investing game hard this year. Hard to sit still now. :billdance:like constantly buying and selling?
Is this the best investing thread on gE? (other than how many credit cards thread)
Gonna win 'em all!
No just more active in buying stocks. Used to own 3 before April just for fun. Made one really good/lucky call. Now dabble in ~15 diff stocks.
Post by: sys on July 31, 2014, 10:19:59 PM
Is this the best investing thread on gE? (other than how many credit cards thread)
i think it's the only one.
Post by: Spracne on July 31, 2014, 10:41:46 PM
Post by: CrushNasty on July 31, 2014, 10:48:56 PM
Is this the best investing thread on gE? (other than how many credit cards thread)
i think it's the only one.
Let's gamble!
Post by: j-dub on August 09, 2014, 02:15:23 PM
Post by: kim carnes on August 09, 2014, 02:34:46 PM
guys, i've got $7,000 in an old employer account that i want to roll over into a roth ira. i don't have a roth yet, i'm just planning on opening one up with that 7,000. can i roll the entire 7,000 over even though it's over the 5500 limit? can the excess be credited to the next year or previous year? what are my options here? i know very little, p.s.
is the existing account a 401k? i'm not sure you can roll any of it into a roth if that's the case. you could roll all of into a regular IRA though.
Post by: sys on August 09, 2014, 02:56:15 PM
guys, i've got $7,000 in an old employer account that i want to roll over into a roth ira. i don't have a roth yet, i'm just planning on opening one up with that 7,000. can i roll the entire 7,000 over even though it's over the 5500 limit? can the excess be credited to the next year or previous year? what are my options here? i know very little, p.s.
assuming it is in a tax-deferred 401k, you can roll it all into a roth. you'll have to pay taxes on any gains.
Post by: hemmy on August 09, 2014, 02:59:07 PM
Post by: j-dub on August 09, 2014, 03:10:16 PM
Post by: j-dub on August 09, 2014, 03:14:41 PM
it's tax-deferred and will be taxed 10% if i understand correctly. i was just unsure if i could open a roth with more than the 5500 contribution limit..?
i think this is wrong. i think 10% would only apply if i took any of the rolled over amount out in the first 5 years. the rollover amount will be taxed in some way though..
Post by: kim carnes on August 09, 2014, 03:16:52 PM
Post by: j-dub on August 09, 2014, 03:18:30 PM
Post by: sys on August 09, 2014, 03:47:23 PM
it's tax-deferred and will be taxed 10% if i understand correctly. i was just unsure if i could open a roth with more than the 5500 contribution limit..?
yeah, it's a conversion, not a contribution. no limit on conversions.
Post by: wetwillie on August 09, 2014, 05:41:15 PM
Post by: j-dub on August 09, 2014, 05:52:03 PM
it's tax-deferred and will be taxed 10% if i understand correctly. i was just unsure if i could open a roth with more than the 5500 contribution limit..?
yeah, it's a conversion, not a contribution. no limit on conversions.
thanks sys! :love:
that's exactly what i was hoping for.
Post by: j-dub on August 09, 2014, 05:54:46 PM
Do you expect your income tax bracket to be higher upon retirement? does your employer offer a nice match to 401k contributions?
yeah, i expect my tax bracket to increase, that's why i want a roth. they offer a match, not a great one.
Post by: hemmy on August 09, 2014, 09:33:35 PM
Post by: slobber on August 09, 2014, 09:42:30 PM
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: hemmy on August 10, 2014, 01:57:18 AM
I was once holding a $50,000 check with my name on it and my cousin was trying to get me to go to the casino and just drop it on black. What if, man, what if?
Gonna win 'em all!
You would've won, no doubt about it. Looks like a pretty foolish decision in retrospect.
Post by: slobber on August 10, 2014, 12:16:08 PM
That's what I'm saying. :facepalm: :anger:I was once holding a $50,000 check with my name on it and my cousin was trying to get me to go to the casino and just drop it on black. What if, man, what if?
Gonna win 'em all!
You would've won, no doubt about it. Looks like a pretty foolish decision in retrospect.
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: Asteriskhead on August 12, 2014, 11:44:49 AM
Post by: michigancat on August 12, 2014, 11:50:59 AM
Apparently I've got too much of my 401K invested in company stock. I know next to nothing about this. Should I just pay ING $4 a month to manage it?
No, post the fund options available (along with the expense ratios) and we'll choose for you.
Post by: Asteriskhead on August 12, 2014, 12:17:50 PM
Apparently I've got too much of my 401K invested in company stock. I know next to nothing about this. Should I just pay ING $4 a month to manage it?
No, post the fund options available (along with the expense ratios) and we'll choose for you.
Okay, I have to wait for the company to freaking mail me a password to access the website.
Post by: sys on August 12, 2014, 05:56:19 PM
Apparently I've got too much of my 401K invested in company stock. I know next to nothing about this. Should I just pay ING $4 a month to manage it?
No, post the fund options available (along with the expense ratios) and we'll choose for you.
what a great idea. :excited:
Post by: Kat Kid on August 12, 2014, 06:58:03 PM
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on August 12, 2014, 07:08:45 PM
Post by: michigancat on August 12, 2014, 07:13:59 PM
Post by: kim carnes on August 12, 2014, 07:16:25 PM
currently on hold trying to fix a 401k rollover that got lost. Good god why can't this be an automated process.
it is automated at non-shitty brokerages
Post by: michigancat on August 12, 2014, 07:26:41 PM
currently on hold trying to fix a 401k rollover that got lost. Good god why can't this be an automated process.
it is automated at non-shitty brokerages
So I went to JP Morgan where my old plan was, and they had what I thought was an automated rollover form. I filled it out, and they had an option for rolling over to Charles Schwab, my current plan administrator. The problem was they had the wrong address in their system and mailed the check to the wrong Schwab office, who couldn't process it and I guess through it out or something like a bunch of rough ridin' idiots.
So then I call JP Morgan and tell them to cancel the check. They say they can't cancel it unless I mail them a letter with the old check information, the reason the plan wouldn't accept the check, and a signature. Sweet eff. It's 2014 you fucks.
Post by: Asteriskhead on August 12, 2014, 09:11:51 PM
Also, there will be no voting. There will only be people that know what they are talking about dispensing advice.
Well, duh.
Post by: sys on November 19, 2014, 01:51:27 PM
Post by: slobber on November 19, 2014, 04:05:35 PM
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on November 19, 2014, 04:55:01 PM
Post by: ben ji on November 19, 2014, 07:20:13 PM
He thought they would pay their dividends in real physical candy.
Post by: raquetcat on November 20, 2014, 09:19:34 AM
www.betterment.com
Basically they invest in vanguard index funds, but they automatically rebalance your account and do tax loss harvesting. They charge rates that are comparable to vanguard as well, probably worth a deeper look
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on November 25, 2014, 01:27:24 PM
Post by: Spracne on November 25, 2014, 01:30:15 PM
I'm very confused right now. I called Fidelity and asked them about rolling over my last two companies into my cureent one with Fidelity. They told me to get the checks mailed to me and then send it to them. I think I have them (They don't look like the checks i'm use to) now. Am I just suppose to mail these to fidelity now? :confused: Why couldn't they do this electronically? :dunno:
What, did you expect whale treatment?
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on November 25, 2014, 01:31:51 PM
I don't know. I'm very uneducated in this department. Do I just sign these checks and mail it to fidelity in one of the packets they sent me?I'm very confused right now. I called Fidelity and asked them about rolling over my last two companies into my cureent one with Fidelity. They told me to get the checks mailed to me and then send it to them. I think I have them (They don't look like the checks i'm use to) now. Am I just suppose to mail these to fidelity now? :confused: Why couldn't they do this electronically? :dunno:
What, did you expect whale treatment?
Post by: Spracne on November 25, 2014, 01:35:36 PM
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on November 25, 2014, 01:42:10 PM
Post by: Mrs. Gooch on November 25, 2014, 01:50:23 PM
I'm very confused right now. I called Fidelity and asked them about rolling over my last two companies into my cureent one with Fidelity. They told me to get the checks mailed to me and then send it to them. I think I have them (They don't look like the checks i'm use to) now. Am I just suppose to mail these to fidelity now? :confused: Why couldn't they do this electronically? :dunno:
Seems like this could be done electronically to me too, but it isn't. Just send the checks to Fidelity c/o your adviser person you have been talking to. Don't sign them.
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on November 25, 2014, 01:51:03 PM
:thumbs: Thanks!I'm very confused right now. I called Fidelity and asked them about rolling over my last two companies into my cureent one with Fidelity. They told me to get the checks mailed to me and then send it to them. I think I have them (They don't look like the checks i'm use to) now. Am I just suppose to mail these to fidelity now? :confused: Why couldn't they do this electronically? :dunno:
Seems like this could be done electronically to me too, but it isn't. Just send the checks to Fidelity c/o your adviser person you have been talking to. Don't sign them.
Post by: sys on December 16, 2014, 07:43:17 PM
Post by: wetwillie on December 16, 2014, 09:34:43 PM
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on December 17, 2014, 02:41:51 PM
Post by: wetwillie on December 19, 2014, 08:01:22 PM
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 07, 2015, 11:12:01 AM
UGH!!! I sent two old checks from former companies to fidelity to be rolled over. One of them went through fine (the small check) the other was sent back to my old address cause there was something wrong with the form. I called fidelity and they tell me to call my former employer and cancel that check and order a new one. I do this and my old company tells me that fidelity has already cashed the check and they can't send me a new one. No one knows what's going on or where it is. Just 5K out there floating around and no ones wants to take account for it. :curse:This is seriously starting to worry me. Fidelity allegedly sent back the check to me, but to my old address, and I never received it. UOP doesn't want to cut a new check, cause their records show fidelity cashed it, but it's not in my account. Fidelity is still telling me they sent it back to me, but I've never received it. This is unreal.
Post by: michigancat on January 07, 2015, 11:16:19 AM
UGH!!! I sent two old checks from former companies to fidelity to be rolled over. One of them went through fine (the small check) the other was sent back to my old address cause there was something wrong with the form. I called fidelity and they tell me to call my former employer and cancel that check and order a new one. I do this and my old company tells me that fidelity has already cashed the check and they can't send me a new one. No one knows what's going on or where it is. Just 5K out there floating around and no ones wants to take account for it. :curse:This is seriously starting to worry me. Fidelity allegedly sent back the check to me, but to my old address, and I never received it. UOP doesn't want to cut a new check, cause their records show fidelity cashed it, but it's not in my account. Fidelity is still telling me they sent it back to me, but I've never received it. This is unreal.
yeah, I had a check get lost and eventually the people that sent the check realized it got lost and it's back in my original account. It's rough ridin' dumbfounding that companies like this have to send paper checks in 2015. I guess they do it to discourage people from moving their money but holy eff.
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 07, 2015, 11:21:03 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on February 25, 2015, 03:47:33 AM
Post by: sys on February 27, 2015, 05:47:12 PM
this is a good investing method.
Post by: Tobias on February 27, 2015, 05:55:50 PM
Post by: sys on April 12, 2015, 03:44:42 PM
i'm going to open an account in the near future. i expect it's a pretty janky service, and you have to be careful not to rebalance when they prompt you to. but for a $100 incentive, i'll give it a try. if the tax reporting isn't mumped up, i'll probably keep the account. it may help me overcome some investing emotional hangups i have.
Post by: ben ji on April 20, 2015, 08:49:31 PM
Question
1. My employer does not offer a HSA, can I still open one? I have fidelity accounts for my Roth IRA/Rollover IRA but after a brief search of their website it looks like they don't offer HSA's.
I'm a single bro in my 20's so I don't have many medical expenses. I mainly want to sock away some money because I know that at some point I or my future family will have medical expenses.
Post by: hemmy on April 20, 2015, 09:01:14 PM
Post by: WillieWatanabe on April 20, 2015, 09:22:57 PM
It's unbelievable that they can't just wire it party-to-party. Now i'm just loost, wondering where that money is and who's going to take care of it. I'm sure it will workout, but i'm getting angrier by the day.
update?
Post by: ben ji on April 20, 2015, 09:32:59 PM
Quote
No permission or authorization from the IRS is necessary to establish an HSA. You set up an HSA with a trustee. A qualified HSA trustee can be a bank, an insurance company, or anyone already approved by the IRS to be a trustee of individual retirement arrangements (IRAs) or Archer MSAs. The HSA can be established through a trustee that is different from your health plan provider.
Unfortunately it does not look like Fidelity offers individual HSA plans. Does anyone have a HSA as an individual and not through their work?
Post by: wetwillie on April 20, 2015, 09:36:33 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on April 20, 2015, 09:40:51 PM
Post by: ben ji on April 20, 2015, 10:00:05 PM
Currently I have about 1/3 of my retirement in a Roth IRA and 2/3 in a regular IRA I rolled over from an old 401k.
My work offers a regular 401k and a Roth 401k. I currently make the maximum yearly contribution to the Roth IRA so I opted for the regular 401k and contribute just over what I need to to get the employer match(Its puny but I get a PENSION?!? What? Puny too tho).
In regards to Taxes it is currently advantageous to go with the Roth 401k right now based on my current/future tax bracket projections but I decided against it because I like the idea of having both tax deferred and non tax deferred options when I retire.
My current thinking is that I can live my basic life off the 401k/SS(lol)/Pension and use the tax free(in retirement) money from my Roth IRA for big expenses (New car/Travel/Fishing boat/etc etc).
Thoughts?
Post by: ben ji on April 20, 2015, 10:03:47 PM
Any bank in kc will open one for you. This commerce bank link is an example of what you want https://www.commercebank.com/personal/saving/health-savings-account.asp (https://www.commercebank.com/personal/saving/health-savings-account.asp)
you just open a new savings account and designate it as an hsa. one in manhattan (community first) made me do $50 to start, but the one in topeka (credit union) didn't. if you want to invest it or something then i have no clue
Thanks guyz. I have accounts at 2 banks in KC but from cruising their website it looks like they do not offer HSA's. I'll have to give them a call and find out if they offer them or if I need to ditch one of them and find another bank.
Post by: sys on April 20, 2015, 10:16:40 PM
Also, tell me what you think about this.
Currently I have about 1/3 of my retirement in a Roth IRA and 2/3 in a regular IRA I rolled over from an old 401k.
My work offers a regular 401k and a Roth 401k. I currently make the maximum yearly contribution to the Roth IRA so I opted for the regular 401k and contribute just over what I need to to get the employer match(Its puny but I get a PENSION?!? What? Puny too tho).
In regards to Taxes it is currently advantageous to go with the Roth 401k right now based on my current/future tax bracket projections but I decided against it because I like the idea of having both tax deferred and non tax deferred options when I retire.
My current thinking is that I can live my basic life off the 401k/SS(lol)/Pension and use the tax free(in retirement) money from my Roth IRA for big expenses (New car/Travel/Fishing boat/etc etc).
Thoughts?
it's just a matter of taxes. so without knowing your brackets, bracket expectations and future earning/retirement plans, i don't think anyone can really advise.
the one important point with the traditional 401k is that you can convert it to a roth, but you can't go the other way. so if you can control your income in the year(s) you convert, you can kill the gov. with no taxes on the 401k and then no to v. low taxes on the conversion.
Post by: slobber on April 20, 2015, 10:17:27 PM
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: michigancat on April 20, 2015, 10:19:18 PM
Post by: sys on April 20, 2015, 10:20:40 PM
Wife has a Roth ira and is going back to school. She talked to someone in her class that was taking money out of her retirement account to pay for school rather than take out private loans. Good/bad idea? (Without knowing my tax bracket situation of course.)
horrible idea.
Post by: slobber on April 20, 2015, 10:20:43 PM
yes, and you can't really project future tax codes/ brackets. I am more heavily in Roth accounts. About 2/3 vs. 1/3. The conversion thing is not a guaranteed option in the future. That is one of my assumptions.Also, tell me what you think about this.
Currently I have about 1/3 of my retirement in a Roth IRA and 2/3 in a regular IRA I rolled over from an old 401k.
My work offers a regular 401k and a Roth 401k. I currently make the maximum yearly contribution to the Roth IRA so I opted for the regular 401k and contribute just over what I need to to get the employer match(Its puny but I get a PENSION?!? What? Puny too tho).
In regards to Taxes it is currently advantageous to go with the Roth 401k right now based on my current/future tax bracket projections but I decided against it because I like the idea of having both tax deferred and non tax deferred options when I retire.
My current thinking is that I can live my basic life off the 401k/SS(lol)/Pension and use the tax free(in retirement) money from my Roth IRA for big expenses (New car/Travel/Fishing boat/etc etc).
Thoughts?
it's just a matter of taxes. so without knowing your brackets, bracket expectations and future earning/retirement plans, i don't think anyone can really advise.
the one important point with the traditional 401k is that you can convert it to a roth, but you can't go the other way. so if you can control your income in the year(s) you convert, you can kill the gov. with no taxes on the 401k and then no to v. low taxes on the conversion.
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: michigancat on April 20, 2015, 10:21:45 PM
Post by: slobber on April 20, 2015, 10:22:10 PM
sys and I seem to agree on most financial stuff. At least on how we think.Wife has a Roth ira and is going back to school. She talked to someone in her class that was taking money out of her retirement account to pay for school rather than take out private loans. Good/bad idea? (Without knowing my tax bracket situation of course.)
horrible idea.
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: slobber on April 20, 2015, 10:23:33 PM
The private loans have a pretty high interest rate if that mattersthe default would be higher rate
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: star seed 7 on April 20, 2015, 10:24:53 PM
Wife has a Roth ira and is going back to school. She talked to someone in her class that was taking money out of her retirement account to pay for school rather than take out private loans. Good/bad idea? (Without knowing my tax bracket situation of course.)
i took out of my ira instead of doing private loans. i don't really think it was a good decision, but not really a huge deal either way for me.
Post by: michigancat on April 20, 2015, 10:25:35 PM
http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/102714/how-can-you-borrow-roth-ira.asp
Post by: star seed 7 on April 20, 2015, 10:27:19 PM
Yeah it doesn't look like you can do that without a penalty so not sure why someone suggested it to her
http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/102714/how-can-you-borrow-roth-ira.asp
you have to pay income tax on it, but it's penalty free for "education" expenses, though that can be pretty broad and extend to room and board and supplies and stuff
Post by: sys on April 20, 2015, 10:27:31 PM
if you need to get a loan ('m sure you don't), she probably shouldn't be going back to school. you guys are on the downhill side of life, going back to school is probably foolish.
Post by: sys on April 20, 2015, 10:29:34 PM
Post by: The Big Train on April 20, 2015, 10:33:30 PM
Post by: ben ji on April 20, 2015, 10:53:19 PM
yes, and you can't really project future tax codes/ brackets. I am more heavily in Roth accounts. About 2/3 vs. 1/3. The conversion thing is not a guaranteed option in the future. That is one of my assumptions.Also, tell me what you think about this.
Currently I have about 1/3 of my retirement in a Roth IRA and 2/3 in a regular IRA I rolled over from an old 401k.
My work offers a regular 401k and a Roth 401k. I currently make the maximum yearly contribution to the Roth IRA so I opted for the regular 401k and contribute just over what I need to to get the employer match(Its puny but I get a PENSION?!? What? Puny too tho).
In regards to Taxes it is currently advantageous to go with the Roth 401k right now based on my current/future tax bracket projections but I decided against it because I like the idea of having both tax deferred and non tax deferred options when I retire.
My current thinking is that I can live my basic life off the 401k/SS(lol)/Pension and use the tax free(in retirement) money from my Roth IRA for big expenses (New car/Travel/Fishing boat/etc etc).
Thoughts?
it's just a matter of taxes. so without knowing your brackets, bracket expectations and future earning/retirement plans, i don't think anyone can really advise.
the one important point with the traditional 401k is that you can convert it to a roth, but you can't go the other way. so if you can control your income in the year(s) you convert, you can kill the gov. with no taxes on the 401k and then no to v. low taxes on the conversion.
Gonna win 'em all!
That's the catch. Looking at retirement calculators online I am just under the amount where it makes sense to use a Roth IRA based on what I think my tax bracket will be when I retire....but at the same time I am still in my 20's so I can't accurately predict what my tax bracket will be when I retire(THANKS OBAMA).
My thinking is getting to a 50/50 split between tax deferred and non tax deferred (or something close) in 10 years will allow me to adjust to my savings to what is most advantageous at that time.
Post by: slobber on April 21, 2015, 02:19:07 AM
the $100 in euro's i brought home and kept 10 years ago is rough ridin' me right about now :angry:i am setting on stacks of Euros and Rupees that are just killing me right now. My guy keeps on telling me to sell and I'm all, "eff gold. The future is rupees."
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: ShellShock on June 16, 2015, 07:51:41 AM
Post by: sys on June 16, 2015, 08:45:07 AM
Does anyone here hold any Blackrock investment funds? I'm curious about a couple of them, but still a little uneasy about Blackrock...
what are you looking at?
Post by: ShellShock on June 16, 2015, 12:07:47 PM
Post by: sys on June 16, 2015, 01:03:25 PM
Post by: Fedor on June 16, 2015, 04:29:51 PM
Post by: wetwillie on June 16, 2015, 05:36:41 PM
Post by: sys on June 16, 2015, 08:37:50 PM
What is wrong with vanguard mutual funds
they have a lot, that do different things. there's nothing wrong with them.
Post by: sys on June 16, 2015, 08:38:28 PM
I am afraid much like representing yourself in court, I have a fool for a client.
i think the saying is pretty much reversed for investing.
Post by: michigancat on June 17, 2015, 01:58:48 PM
setup and instructions from vanguard were ridiculously easy.
Go to the current 401k to request the distribution. Find out they don't send checks to vanguard from an online request. Fine.
Look into having it mailed to me - take several steps to get to that point. Oh, it still has my old address. eff, I need to change that
Go to personal information to update - no way to change your address - it says if you're employed, have your employer change it. If not, give the plan manager a call!
I call the plan manger. First I just ask if they can send the money directly to Vanguard. "No, we don't work with them, so we have to send it to you and then you send it in".
OK, let's change my address then. Transfer me to someone else. "OK, let me verify your information and current address"..."OK, so if you want to change your address you need to fill out a Personal Information Change Request and mail or fax it."
"You mean I can't do it online or over the phone?"
"No, this is sensitive information so we don't let you do that for security."
"So I have to mail it?"
"You can fax it, too!"
They said it takes 3-5 days to update the address, then I can try requesting a check again.
Post by: ShellShock on June 17, 2015, 02:45:38 PM
What is wrong with vanguard mutual funds
I'm not saying anything is wrong with Vanguard funds, in fact I hold a decent amount of them. I like to be spread out and diversified, so that's why I was looking at Blackrock.
Post by: slobber on June 17, 2015, 04:09:40 PM
This comment is not necessarily meant for you, ShellShock, but more so for any newbie that came here looking for advice.What is wrong with vanguard mutual funds
I'm not saying anything is wrong with Vanguard funds, in fact I hold a decent amount of them. I like to be spread out and diversified, so that's why I was looking at Blackrock.
Diversified doesn't mean you should buy 7 separate funds from 7 different fund management companies. You might end up owning the exact same thing (or something very similar) with each company and could have increased your risks tremendously. You need to understand what the fund's objectives are before investing.
Personally, I think Vanguard has a pretty great selection of funds that can keep you more diversified that you can imagine. I own 4 (maybe 5?) with a decent amount of money in each.
Post by: michigancat on June 17, 2015, 04:10:36 PM
Post by: WonderMeal on June 18, 2015, 08:45:31 AM
I just transferred my and mrs. fedor's ira's and roth's to a self directed fund. I am indexing the crap out of everything, YOLO!! I am afraid much like representing yourself in court, I have a fool for a client.
I believe in you, Fedor. You made the right decision.
Post by: puniraptor on June 18, 2015, 10:28:00 PM
Post by: wetwillie on June 19, 2015, 06:43:52 AM
What is wrong with vanguard mutual funds
I'm not saying anything is wrong with Vanguard funds, in fact I hold a decent amount of them. I like to be spread out and diversified, so that's why I was looking at Blackrock.
My comment was really aimed at fedor who I think just put his retirement into index funds.
Post by: ShellShock on June 19, 2015, 07:31:25 AM
This comment is not necessarily meant for you, ShellShock, but more so for any newbie that came here looking for advice.What is wrong with vanguard mutual funds
I'm not saying anything is wrong with Vanguard funds, in fact I hold a decent amount of them. I like to be spread out and diversified, so that's why I was looking at Blackrock.
Diversified doesn't mean you should buy 7 separate funds from 7 different fund management companies. You might end up owning the exact same thing (or something very similar) with each company and could have increased your risks tremendously. You need to understand what the fund's objectives are before investing.
Personally, I think Vanguard has a pretty great selection of funds that can keep you more diversified that you can imagine. I own 4 (maybe 5?) with a decent amount of money in each.
I will add that it's good to be spread out between a couple companies if you're going this route though because each companies (Vanguard vs Blackrock vs whoever) index type funds have different stocks in them. Just because both are labeled as Healthcare Growth (or whatever fund it is), doesn't mean that it's the same across the board.
For instance, I have multiple holdings in several investment companies that basically hedge eachother. My healthcare fund one place has Cerner as one of it's main stocks and the other place has Epic. Those two companies are direct competitors so let them duke it out...because in the end, all it means for me is more $$$$.
Just my :th_twocents:
Post by: Fedor on June 19, 2015, 09:02:34 AM
Sorry I didn't know your comment was directed at me. To be clear, this is a portion of the retirement stash. I finally consolidated all the funds left in the wake of various job changes. The funds are not all in index funds. I bot some index funds, some stocks and there is a large portion still in the money market 'cause I got tired of researching and lost steam. I have had Vanguard funds before, why do you recommend them? BTW I am fairly management fee averse, which is how I ended up in a self directed fund.What is wrong with vanguard mutual funds
I'm not saying anything is wrong with Vanguard funds, in fact I hold a decent amount of them. I like to be spread out and diversified, so that's why I was looking at Blackrock.
My comment was really aimed at fedor who I think just put his retirement into index funds.
Post by: slobber on June 19, 2015, 10:38:13 AM
Dave Ramsey gets this part of the equation right: www.daveramsey.com (man, he tries to sell a lot of crap on his site!)Sorry I didn't know your comment was directed at me. To be clear, this is a portion of the retirement stash. I finally consolidated all the funds left in the wake of various job changes. The funds are not all in index funds. I bot some index funds, some stocks and there is a large portion still in the money market 'cause I got tired of researching and lost steam. I have had Vanguard funds before, why do you recommend them? BTW I am fairly management fee averse, which is how I ended up in a self directed fund.What is wrong with vanguard mutual funds
I'm not saying anything is wrong with Vanguard funds, in fact I hold a decent amount of them. I like to be spread out and diversified, so that's why I was looking at Blackrock.
My comment was really aimed at fedor who I think just put his retirement into index funds.
TLDNR:
equal parts in Growth, Growth and Income, Aggressive Growth, International.
Post by: slobber on June 19, 2015, 10:40:04 AM
What if that industry goes belly up because of game changing technology?
For instance, I have multiple holdings in several investment companies that basically hedge eachother. My healthcare fund one place has Cerner as one of it's main stocks and the other place has Epic. Those two companies are direct competitors so let them duke it out...because in the end, all it means for me is more $$$$.
Just my :th_twocents:
Post by: ShellShock on June 19, 2015, 10:47:14 AM
What if that industry goes belly up because of game changing technology?
For instance, I have multiple holdings in several investment companies that basically hedge eachother. My healthcare fund one place has Cerner as one of it's main stocks and the other place has Epic. Those two companies are direct competitors so let them duke it out...because in the end, all it means for me is more $$$$.
Just my :th_twocents:
Then the other holdings in my overall portfolio in tech, international, etc keep me level. By no means am I saying get into one sector and bet the farm. I'm a firm believer in making sure that i'm very spread out and diversified.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 19, 2015, 10:48:58 AM
that's what he saidWhat if that industry goes belly up because of game changing technology?
For instance, I have multiple holdings in several investment companies that basically hedge eachother. My healthcare fund one place has Cerner as one of it's main stocks and the other place has Epic. Those two companies are direct competitors so let them duke it out...because in the end, all it means for me is more $$$$.
Just my :th_twocents:
i'm very spread out and diversified.
Post by: ShellShock on June 19, 2015, 01:14:51 PM
that's what he saidWhat if that industry goes belly up because of game changing technology?
For instance, I have multiple holdings in several investment companies that basically hedge eachother. My healthcare fund one place has Cerner as one of it's main stocks and the other place has Epic. Those two companies are direct competitors so let them duke it out...because in the end, all it means for me is more $$$$.
Just my :th_twocents:
i'm very spread out and diversified.
:facepalm:
Post by: michigancat on June 19, 2015, 01:25:37 PM
currently trying to roll over an old 401k from a company-sponsored to a vanguard account (something I should have done a long time ago but it was difficult, a check got lost, whatever)
setup and instructions from vanguard were ridiculously easy.
Go to the current 401k to request the distribution. Find out they don't send checks to vanguard from an online request. Fine.
Look into having it mailed to me - take several steps to get to that point. Oh, it still has my old address. eff, I need to change that
Go to personal information to update - no way to change your address - it says if you're employed, have your employer change it. If not, give the plan manager a call!
I call the plan manger. First I just ask if they can send the money directly to Vanguard. "No, we don't work with them, so we have to send it to you and then you send it in".
OK, let's change my address then. Transfer me to someone else. "OK, let me verify your information and current address"..."OK, so if you want to change your address you need to fill out a Personal Information Change Request and mail or fax it."
"You mean I can't do it online or over the phone?"
"No, this is sensitive information so we don't let you do that for security."
"So I have to mail it?"
"You can fax it, too!"
They said it takes 3-5 days to update the address, then I can try requesting a check again.
update: they still haven't updated my address
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 19, 2015, 01:54:09 PM
update: they said 3-5 days :Rusty:currently trying to roll over an old 401k from a company-sponsored to a vanguard account (something I should have done a long time ago but it was difficult, a check got lost, whatever)
setup and instructions from vanguard were ridiculously easy.
Go to the current 401k to request the distribution. Find out they don't send checks to vanguard from an online request. Fine.
Look into having it mailed to me - take several steps to get to that point. Oh, it still has my old address. eff, I need to change that
Go to personal information to update - no way to change your address - it says if you're employed, have your employer change it. If not, give the plan manager a call!
I call the plan manger. First I just ask if they can send the money directly to Vanguard. "No, we don't work with them, so we have to send it to you and then you send it in".
OK, let's change my address then. Transfer me to someone else. "OK, let me verify your information and current address"..."OK, so if you want to change your address you need to fill out a Personal Information Change Request and mail or fax it."
"You mean I can't do it online or over the phone?"
"No, this is sensitive information so we don't let you do that for security."
"So I have to mail it?"
"You can fax it, too!"
They said it takes 3-5 days to update the address, then I can try requesting a check again.
update: they still haven't updated my address
Post by: michigancat on June 19, 2015, 01:55:03 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 19, 2015, 01:56:34 PM
Post by: michigancat on June 19, 2015, 02:05:41 PM
probably shouldn't have taken you so long to roll it over either
it absolutely shouldn't have, but I would have had to do an address change regardless.
Post by: Kat Kid on June 19, 2015, 02:10:55 PM
Funniest part? The ceremonial script reading.
"Hi, I am _______ from Vanguard and I am on a monitored line for quality control may I ask who I am speaking to?"
"Hi, I am _____________ from TIAA-CREF and I am on a monitored line for quality control....uh nice to speak to you _______."
Post by: michigancat on June 24, 2015, 06:58:29 PM
When I changed my TIAA-CREF Roth to a Vanguard Roth, I called Vanguard and then they stayed on the line and handled the transfer for me and it took maybe 5 minutes.
Funniest part? The ceremonial script reading.
"Hi, I am _______ from Vanguard and I am on a monitored line for quality control may I ask who I am speaking to?"
"Hi, I am _____________ from TIAA-CREF and I am on a monitored line for quality control....uh nice to speak to you _______."
tried calling Vanguard, they couldn't do it. But my address was changed! So I tried calling my old custodian to see if they could send a check directly to Vanguard.
"Um, Mr. Michigancat - did you request a check be sent to another provider, and now you want to change those instructions?"
"Yes, I requested a distribution and the check got lost - all the money is now back in my account and I want to move it to a new location."
"Well, we need you to issue a stop payment request along with new instructions for where to send the check. Do you want to mail or fax that to us?"
FFFFFFFFFF
Post by: WillieWatanabe on June 24, 2015, 09:10:46 PM
Post by: Bloodfart on June 28, 2015, 12:46:41 AM
Post by: ChiComCat on June 28, 2015, 05:12:01 AM
Post by: slobber on June 28, 2015, 10:42:34 AM
My financial advisor has been loosing me moneys and has ask for more access to my accounts. She says she needs more flexibility to adjust with the markets. What do you guys think?A financial advisor needs no access to assist you in investing your money. I am not saying that they shouldn't have access, just that it is not a requirement. Seems like a poor excuse for losing money. If your advisor needs that fast of access, then she is trying to time the market, which is a pretty poor strategy.
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: sys on June 28, 2015, 02:58:38 PM
My financial advisor has been loosing me moneys and has ask for more access to my accounts. She says she needs more flexibility to adjust with the markets. What do you guys think?
fire her and don't hire anyone else. you don't need a financial adviser, it's super easy to invest yourself. like Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)-level easy.
Post by: michigancat on June 29, 2015, 06:22:19 PM
Post by: slobber on July 01, 2015, 08:33:44 AM
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: ben ji on July 01, 2015, 08:50:22 AM
I am going to do some investing today. Funding Roth IRAs. Plus some other stuff!
Gonna win 'em all!
Go get em slobber!
I just increased my 401k contributions! WOW, SUCH FUN.
Post by: slobber on July 01, 2015, 08:51:47 AM
Future ben ji will look like a stud because of that decision!I am going to do some investing today. Funding Roth IRAs. Plus some other stuff!
Gonna win 'em all!
Go get em slobber!
I just increased my 401k contributions! WOW, SUCH FUN.
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: michigancat on July 23, 2015, 06:36:05 PM
Post by: meow meow on July 23, 2015, 08:22:37 PM
Post by: slobber on July 23, 2015, 10:15:36 PM
Had a meeting with someone from the company that does our 401k, and told him I still have my old company's 401k rolled over into an Ira at another investment company. He asked if I considered moving that money into my current 401k and I said that I hurt it was a pain in the ass to do, and he's basically going to do it for me...hope it works!I wouldn't do that. If you already moved it out of the other company's 410(k), then leave it in the other IRA.
I'm sorry, I guess you weren't asking for advice....GOOD LUCK! I hope it works, too!
Post by: sys on July 23, 2015, 10:20:12 PM
Had a meeting with someone from the company that does our 401k, and told him I still have my old company's 401k rolled over into an Ira at another investment company. He asked if I considered moving that money into my current 401k and I said that I hurt it was a pain in the ass to do, and he's basically going to do it for me...hope it works!
ask yourself why he wants your money so much.
Post by: meow meow on July 24, 2015, 09:05:19 AM
Had a meeting with someone from the company that does our 401k, and told him I still have my old company's 401k rolled over into an Ira at another investment company. He asked if I considered moving that money into my current 401k and I said that I hurt it was a pain in the ass to do, and he's basically going to do it for me...hope it works!
ask yourself why he wants your money so much.
both my IRA and current 401k are making similar returns, I think it would be smart to consolidate them so they can compound faster on a larger principal.
Post by: slobber on July 24, 2015, 09:07:03 AM
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: Mrs. Gooch on July 24, 2015, 09:18:59 AM
That doesn't make sense. HOPE IT WORKS!
Gonna win 'em all!
Yeah, haven't you ever heard of the Distributive property?
Post by: Fedor on July 24, 2015, 09:19:15 AM
That doesn't make sense. HOPE IT WORKS!:ROFL:
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: meow meow on July 24, 2015, 09:21:55 AM
Post by: ben ji on July 24, 2015, 09:38:19 AM
I'm not contributing anything to my IRA, which is why I wanted to roll it into my current 401k. That's a bad move?
Who is your IRA with? In most cases you have better(more funds/lower fee's/ability to buy individual stocks/etc) investment selections in your IRA than with your 401k.
For example my 401k is with mass mutual, they have like 15/20 different funds I can select. My IRA is with Fidelity and they have like a bajillion different funds I can select.
Post by: ben ji on July 24, 2015, 09:39:47 AM
Post by: Mrs. Gooch on July 24, 2015, 09:41:34 AM
I'm not contributing anything to my IRA, which is why I wanted to roll it into my current 401k. That's a bad move?
Assuming they are earning at the same rate, it wouldn't matter which one(s) you are contributing to unless you are running up against contribution limits....but like ben ji said, the IRA generally has more investment options.
That's assuming you are going to be contributing the same total amount no matter how you are distributing it, and that you are already investing enough in the 401K to get any employer match.
Post by: sys on July 24, 2015, 02:14:12 PM
Post by: meow meow on July 24, 2015, 02:47:04 PM
meow meow, the 401k guy is going to charge you an asset-based fee to have that money in the 401k. you can choose many ways to hold your ira where you will not pay a fee. you will be paying this fee for no reason and it will diminish your returns.
well it hasn't been done yet, so i'll talk with him.
Post by: RockState2000 on July 24, 2015, 02:52:54 PM
Is there a thread already for this...
Post by: lopakman on July 24, 2015, 02:53:29 PM
Post by: sys on July 24, 2015, 02:55:45 PM
meow meow, the 401k guy is going to charge you an asset-based fee to have that money in the 401k. you can choose many ways to hold your ira where you will not pay a fee. you will be paying this fee for no reason and it will diminish your returns.
well it hasn't been done yet, so i'll talk with him.
the fee you're going to want to ask about is called the plan administration fee. that's the one you can avoid by keeping your money in the ira.
you can also complain to him if you don't have a decent numbert of low fee investment options in the plan, but if you do have some and you're not choosing them, that's your own fault, not the 401k guy's fault.
Post by: raquetcat on July 24, 2015, 02:57:05 PM
What's this whole Acorns deal? Anyone use it? Should I?Seems like a decent way to automate the investing of small amounts of money, but the fees are pretty high. I wouldn't use it as a primary source of investing, but if it helps you save a little more than you would otherwise, I would say go for it
Is there a thread already for this...
Post by: sys on July 24, 2015, 03:00:01 PM
What's this whole Acorns deal? Anyone use it? Should I?Seems like a decent way to automate the investing of small amounts of money, but the fees are pretty high. I wouldn't use it as a primary source of investing, but if it helps you save a little more than you would otherwise, I would say go for it
Is there a thread already for this...
yeah. i just heard of it in this thread and looked it up. like raquet said, the fees are pretty outrageous. but if you're incapable of setting aside money to invest on your own, it's probably better than nothing.
Post by: puniraptor on July 24, 2015, 04:28:59 PM
Post by: ben ji on July 24, 2015, 04:52:30 PM
any millenials here on betterment or wealthfront? i think im going to roll some orphaned old 401ks into a roth using one of these millenial tools.
Do you have money set aside to pay the taxes?
Post by: puniraptor on July 24, 2015, 08:33:03 PM
Post by: ben ji on July 24, 2015, 09:42:48 PM
Is it going to be a ton? I can make it happen, but is it smart to do so? Maybe not Roth it?
401k/Ira's = Pay no taxes now, pay taxes when you withdraw. Roth 401k/Roth Ira = Pay Taxes now, withdraw tax free after 59.5 (But you can withdraw the principal at any time). Not sure on the exact details but my understanding is that if you want to roll a 401k into a roth IRA your taxable income jumps up alot...Only way it might make sense is if you plan on being unemployed that fiscal year.
Knowing nothing of your financial situation I would recommend rolling it into a regular IRA. No fee's, no additional taxes, better fund selection etc etc etc.
If you want the advantages of a Roth IRA just open one up and start contributing.
I have a Roth IRA(That I contribute to) and a regular IRA(old 401k I do not contribute to) with fidelity.
Next time I change jobs I will just roll my 401k into the regular IRA I already have, rinse repeat.
Post by: cas4ksu on July 24, 2015, 10:12:33 PM
Post by: wetwillie on July 24, 2015, 10:15:41 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 24, 2015, 10:16:15 PM
Post by: sys on July 24, 2015, 10:23:01 PM
Excuse me for not reading through the 40+, but are there any stock pickers ITT or all index and mutual fund/ETF type folks?
i pick stocks.
Post by: puniraptor on July 24, 2015, 10:35:28 PM
Post by: slobber on July 24, 2015, 10:52:50 PM
Somewhere back in the first five pages I mushed the crap out of somebody on some stocks that I own. I don't have time to pick stocks right now.Excuse me for not reading through the 40+, but are there any stock pickers ITT or all index and mutual fund/ETF type folks?
i pick stocks.
I'd also like to get in the currency game, as I think that is interesting.
Post by: The Big Train on July 24, 2015, 10:59:55 PM
Post by: cas4ksu on July 24, 2015, 11:36:51 PM
Excuse me for not reading through the 40+, but are there any stock pickers ITT or all index and mutual fund/ETF type folks?
i pick stocks.
Me too. I think the market is turning into more of a stock picker's (or actively managed fund) market.
Post by: sys on July 25, 2015, 12:29:34 AM
I think the market is turning into more of a stock picker's (or actively managed fund) market.
i don't. but if it is, that's bad news.
Post by: The Big Train on July 25, 2015, 10:24:48 AM
is now the best time to buy crap tons of apple stock?
:impatient:
Post by: slobber on July 25, 2015, 11:16:18 AM
Yes.is now the best time to buy crap tons of apple stock?
:impatient:
I HOPE IT WORKS!
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: The Big Train on July 25, 2015, 11:26:05 AM
Yes.is now the best time to buy crap tons of apple stock?
:impatient:
I HOPE IT WORKS!
Gonna win 'em all!
how many farms worth is a good start?
Post by: slobber on July 25, 2015, 01:19:34 PM
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: Panjandrum on July 29, 2015, 10:09:10 PM
This comment is not necessarily meant for you, ShellShock, but more so for any newbie that came here looking for advice.What is wrong with vanguard mutual funds
I'm not saying anything is wrong with Vanguard funds, in fact I hold a decent amount of them. I like to be spread out and diversified, so that's why I was looking at Blackrock.
Diversified doesn't mean you should buy 7 separate funds from 7 different fund management companies. You might end up owning the exact same thing (or something very similar) with each company and could have increased your risks tremendously. You need to understand what the fund's objectives are before investing.
Personally, I think Vanguard has a pretty great selection of funds that can keep you more diversified that you can imagine. I own 4 (maybe 5?) with a decent amount of money in each.
I will add that it's good to be spread out between a couple companies if you're going this route though because each companies (Vanguard vs Blackrock vs whoever) index type funds have different stocks in them. Just because both are labeled as Healthcare Growth (or whatever fund it is), doesn't mean that it's the same across the board.
For instance, I have multiple holdings in several investment companies that basically hedge eachother. My healthcare fund one place has Cerner as one of it's main stocks and the other place has Epic. Those two companies are direct competitors so let them duke it out...because in the end, all it means for me is more $$$$.
Just my :th_twocents:
I'm not sure how the other fund has stock in Epic. It's a private company, and their CEO is viciously protective of that.
Of course, I could be wrong about something here.
Post by: michigancat on July 29, 2015, 10:46:40 PM
Post by: slobber on July 30, 2015, 06:48:29 AM
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: slobber on July 30, 2015, 06:49:56 AM
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: wetwillie on July 30, 2015, 06:56:15 AM
The projections I used have about a 1% chance of being accurate. But still, $80 million!
Gonna win 'em all!
85 isnt that far off for you, that 80 million is pretty exciting.
Post by: slobber on July 30, 2015, 07:03:16 AM
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: sys on July 30, 2015, 12:44:28 PM
Post by: slobber on July 30, 2015, 12:49:15 PM
dobbersie, i think that means you can retire now. congratulations.I had a lot of 'best case scenario' involved in the information I put into the calculator. I should probably keep working a couple more months just to be safe.
Post by: sys on July 30, 2015, 12:51:06 PM
Post by: slobber on July 30, 2015, 12:56:52 PM
"Just remember, your time and health are limited resources, too,"said nobody who ever had a D1 Football Field or video board named after them.
Dobber Family Scoreboard at LHC Bill Snyder Family Stadium will be triple the size of that Carl Ice Family bullshit.
Post by: treysolid on July 30, 2015, 01:14:16 PM
Post by: slobber on July 30, 2015, 01:32:21 PM
dobber, i want you to be so wealthy that you buy one of those airship carriers like in the avengers, donate it 'cats football and we play our football games in the sky, hovering over the konza.$80M looks like where I would top out at (again, this is a best case scenario, one tenth of a percent chance). Is that enough to buy one of those?
Post by: ben ji on July 30, 2015, 06:04:15 PM
dobber, i want you to be so wealthy that you buy one of those airship carriers like in the avengers, donate it 'cats football and we play our football games in the sky, hovering over the konza.$80M looks like where I would top out at (again, this is a best case scenario, one tenth of a percent chance). Is that enough to buy one of those?
No idea how much they cost but you could always take that 80m and put it on black in vegas :dunno:
Post by: slobber on July 30, 2015, 06:27:11 PM
I usually go for red. What now? (Not meant in the "what now mother rough rider" way)dobber, i want you to be so wealthy that you buy one of those airship carriers like in the avengers, donate it 'cats football and we play our football games in the sky, hovering over the konza.$80M looks like where I would top out at (again, this is a best case scenario, one tenth of a percent chance). Is that enough to buy one of those?
No idea how much they cost but you could always take that 80m and put it on black in vegas :dunno:
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: slobber on July 31, 2015, 10:24:34 AM
Quote
Dearest One,
With due Respect and Humanity I write to donate and hand over some fund to you for charity work for community development, schools, farmers, less privileges and building of church. I am Madam Ruth Benson; I am 58yrs old, from Kuwait based in Ivory Coast with my late husband. I am married to Late Mr. Jean Benson who was until his death worked with Oil Company (PETROCI) Cote d’Ivoire; we were married for many years without a child. I am now very sick, after going through some medical checkup my doctor told me I would not last the next eight months due to Colon Cancer that I should pray hard.
When my husband was alive, He deposited the sum of (US$2.8M) Two million eight hundred thousand dollars deposited in a Finance Security firm here in Abidjan, Ivory Coast capital. Presently this money is still in the Vault of the firm. Having known my condition I decided to donate this money to any God fearing person, Individual, NGOs, Government Organizations, and Farmers that will use this fund for the charity purpose I mentioned above. I took this decision because I have no offspring and seeing the sufferings of people around i decided to donate it for charity work.
Due to the present condition of my health, as i cannot do it by myself, i map out 20% Percent of the total money for your personal use While remaining 80% of the money will go to Community development, schools, farmers, less privileges and building of church.
Though I don't know you or met you before but I believe that God will work through you in accomplishing his will. I want you to always remember me in your daily prayers because of my upcoming Cancer Surgery.
As soon as I receive your massage in acceptance of working with this charities mention above, I will give you more details and the contact of the Finance Security firm here in Abidjan Ivory Coast.
Please assure me that you will act accordingly as I have Stated herein. Expecting to receive your re-assuring reply,
Remain blessed in the Lord.
Yours Sister,
Madam Ruth Benson.
Post by: Mrs. Gooch on July 31, 2015, 11:01:46 AM
FYI- this email is included in my plan...QuoteDearest One,
With due Respect and Humanity I write to donate and hand over some fund to you for charity work for community development, schools, farmers, less privileges and building of church. I am Madam Ruth Benson; I am 58yrs old, from Kuwait based in Ivory Coast with my late husband. I am married to Late Mr. Jean Benson who was until his death worked with Oil Company (PETROCI) Cote d’Ivoire; we were married for many years without a child. I am now very sick, after going through some medical checkup my doctor told me I would not last the next eight months due to Colon Cancer that I should pray hard.
When my husband was alive, He deposited the sum of (US$2.8M) Two million eight hundred thousand dollars deposited in a Finance Security firm here in Abidjan, Ivory Coast capital. Presently this money is still in the Vault of the firm. Having known my condition I decided to donate this money to any God fearing person, Individual, NGOs, Government Organizations, and Farmers that will use this fund for the charity purpose I mentioned above. I took this decision because I have no offspring and seeing the sufferings of people around i decided to donate it for charity work.
Due to the present condition of my health, as i cannot do it by myself, i map out 20% Percent of the total money for your personal use While remaining 80% of the money will go to Community development, schools, farmers, less privileges and building of church.
Though I don't know you or met you before but I believe that God will work through you in accomplishing his will. I want you to always remember me in your daily prayers because of my upcoming Cancer Surgery.
As soon as I receive your massage in acceptance of working with this charities mention above, I will give you more details and the contact of the Finance Security firm here in Abidjan Ivory Coast.
Please assure me that you will act accordingly as I have Stated herein. Expecting to receive your re-assuring reply,
Remain blessed in the Lord.
Yours Sister,
Madam Ruth Benson.
Why is that woman paying you to make people have less privileges? That seems rude.
Post by: ChiComCat on August 01, 2015, 03:07:24 AM
Negatives:
Won't be able to touch the principle for X years
Risk of investing in solar
Postives:
Elon Musk owns a crap ton and won't let it fail
Great consistent returns
Post by: slobber on August 01, 2015, 05:36:35 AM
you are missing the point. $80 Million Dollars. This is just a step along the way.FYI- this email is included in my plan...QuoteDearest One,
With due Respect and Humanity I write to donate and hand over some fund to you for charity work for community development, schools, farmers, less privileges and building of church. I am Madam Ruth Benson; I am 58yrs old, from Kuwait based in Ivory Coast with my late husband. I am married to Late Mr. Jean Benson who was until his death worked with Oil Company (PETROCI) Cote d’Ivoire; we were married for many years without a child. I am now very sick, after going through some medical checkup my doctor told me I would not last the next eight months due to Colon Cancer that I should pray hard.
When my husband was alive, He deposited the sum of (US$2.8M) Two million eight hundred thousand dollars deposited in a Finance Security firm here in Abidjan, Ivory Coast capital. Presently this money is still in the Vault of the firm. Having known my condition I decided to donate this money to any God fearing person, Individual, NGOs, Government Organizations, and Farmers that will use this fund for the charity purpose I mentioned above. I took this decision because I have no offspring and seeing the sufferings of people around i decided to donate it for charity work.
Due to the present condition of my health, as i cannot do it by myself, i map out 20% Percent of the total money for your personal use While remaining 80% of the money will go to Community development, schools, farmers, less privileges and building of church.
Though I don't know you or met you before but I believe that God will work through you in accomplishing his will. I want you to always remember me in your daily prayers because of my upcoming Cancer Surgery.
As soon as I receive your massage in acceptance of working with this charities mention above, I will give you more details and the contact of the Finance Security firm here in Abidjan Ivory Coast.
Please assure me that you will act accordingly as I have Stated herein. Expecting to receive your re-assuring reply,
Remain blessed in the Lord.
Yours Sister,
Madam Ruth Benson.
Why is that woman paying you to make people have less privileges? That seems rude.
#zeroconsequences.
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: slobber on August 01, 2015, 05:45:29 AM
I am looking at SolarCity bonds - Certainly would have to maintain a more liquid nest egg, but I like what they're sellingChi Cat, just skimmed Solar City. Actually sounds like a great idea. A wacky idea kind of, too. Might be an interesting way to diversify 2-3% of a portfolio.
Negatives:
Won't be able to touch the principle for X years
Risk of investing in solar
Postives:
Elon Musk owns a crap ton and won't let it fail
Great consistent returns
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: slobber on August 01, 2015, 05:46:29 AM
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: sys on August 01, 2015, 06:21:03 PM
I am looking at SolarCity bonds - Certainly would have to maintain a more liquid nest egg, but I like what they're selling
Negatives:
Won't be able to touch the principle for X years
Risk of investing in solar
Postives:
Elon Musk owns a crap ton and won't let it fail
Great consistent returns
chi cat, i don't think you are being adequately compensated for locking up you money (no comment on credit risks - don't know enough about solar city or these securities).
if you want to invest in renewable energy, i think there are more attractive options. and besides, you're too young to be locking your money down in low return, low risk investments. you probably should be more aggressive.
Post by: sys on August 21, 2015, 02:46:32 PM
Post by: Fedor on August 21, 2015, 03:27:25 PM
What is your secret sys?
Post by: sys on August 21, 2015, 03:32:32 PM
What is your secret sys?
not planning to retire tomorrow?
Post by: Fedor on August 21, 2015, 03:37:43 PM
So you are drooling about all the bargains that are out there right now?What is your secret sys?
not planning to retire tomorrow?
Post by: ben ji on August 21, 2015, 04:22:03 PM
Post by: The Big Train on August 21, 2015, 04:42:33 PM
Post by: sys on August 21, 2015, 05:00:30 PM
So you are drooling about all the bargains that are out there right now?
more hopeful that it's finally going to go down meaningfully. there are definitely things i'm interested in buying at current prices. but i'm not drooling at them yet.
Post by: steve dave on August 22, 2015, 04:42:50 PM
Post by: sys on August 22, 2015, 04:57:00 PM
Post by: IPA4Me on August 22, 2015, 07:11:35 PM
Post by: michigancat on August 22, 2015, 09:45:14 PM
Post by: michigancat on August 22, 2015, 09:46:08 PM
Post by: sys on August 22, 2015, 09:52:51 PM
Did it seriously go down that much? Or just individual stocks?
the dow is down over 10% from its high, the s&p isn't down as much. it's not so much, really.
Post by: sys on August 22, 2015, 09:54:12 PM
And goddammit, my company 401k match went through last week. Oh, well.
what does this mean - that your company pays out its match in a lump sum once a year? that seems pretty weird to me, is that common?
Post by: michigancat on August 22, 2015, 10:30:16 PM
They pay it in lump sums twice a year. I don't think it's common.And goddammit, my company 401k match went through last week. Oh, well.
what does this mean - that your company pays out its match in a lump sum once a year? that seems pretty weird to me, is that common?
Post by: sys on August 22, 2015, 10:41:01 PM
Post by: michigancat on August 22, 2015, 10:56:03 PM
that seems a little inconvenient. but, i guess you can prolly choose an option to space out when you invest the sum.
No, it's every August and February and it's all invested in your normal allocation at that time. They an send an email to everyone letting us know when they do it. If there's a way to space it out, I'm not aware of it. Even if there was, I'd still just prefer to get it all in stocks as soon as possible. I couldn't have predicted this dip last week.
Post by: michigancat on August 22, 2015, 10:57:05 PM
Post by: sys on August 22, 2015, 11:21:14 PM
Post by: IPA4Me on August 23, 2015, 07:36:33 AM
Post by: michigancat on August 23, 2015, 11:22:31 AM
i'd guess there's a dollar cost average option in your plan? not specific to the lump sum matches, but for all incoming funds. i agree with that it's better to just invest as it is available.No, not for the match. My contributions are invested immediately, it's just the match that is invested in lump sums.
Post by: michigancat on August 23, 2015, 11:28:37 AM
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/02/15/your-money/beware-of-the-end-of-year-401-k-match.html?referrer=
It mentioned a lot of banks do it at the end of the year, and most of those employees leave at the end of year because of bonuses, anyway. We get our bonuses in April and 401k match in February and August. So best case, you lose two months of match if you leave right after your bonus.
Post by: sys on August 23, 2015, 12:19:06 PM
pretty dick move by your company.
Post by: AbeFroman on August 23, 2015, 12:24:41 PM
Post by: Mrs. Gooch on August 23, 2015, 01:02:55 PM
Post by: michigancat on August 23, 2015, 01:05:55 PM
Seems like they should still have to pay you the match for the months they owe you when you leave.I don't think so. They don't have to give us any match.
Post by: IPA4Me on August 23, 2015, 01:10:01 PM
Post by: sys on August 23, 2015, 01:11:05 PM
Post by: sys on August 23, 2015, 01:11:39 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on August 23, 2015, 01:24:23 PM
Seems like they should still have to pay you the match for the months they owe you when you leave.I don't think so. They don't have to give us any match.
sounds like this is negotiable.
Post by: Kat Kid on August 23, 2015, 01:26:11 PM
what is the match, anyways? if it caps at a % of your salary, and you wanted to leave some time in the nearish future, could you double your contribution in the first part of a year, maxing out the annual match on that, then quit anytime after you get the first match (which would be the full match you could get for a year)?
I can't imagine they would do this thing, seemingly only for the purpose of saving on the margins, and honor some sort of "over match." and pay that out in one 6 month lump.
Post by: Kat Kid on August 23, 2015, 01:27:50 PM
If Rusty throws down 20% they will match the ten, why would they suddenly match the 20 for that 6 month period? The only way this would work is if Rusty isn't doing the full match, which he should really be trying to do and this policy is frustrating his ability to do so while also leave the company.
Post by: sys on August 23, 2015, 01:36:11 PM
Like let's say they match up to 10%
If Rusty throws down 20% they will match the ten, why would they suddenly match the 20 for that 6 month period? The only way this would work is if Rusty isn't doing the full match, which he should really be trying to do and this policy is frustrating his ability to do so while also leave the company.
i dunno how this works, the company i works for doesn't do a % of salary. i envisioned it as they would match the % as it was contributed. so they'd max 100% of the contribution until you hit 10%, then match nothing afterwards. but i dunno.
i mean it doesn't have to be a quitting thing. an employee could, for whatever reason, contribute 20% in the first part of a year, and 0% in the second, and if the company only matched half of the 20, then they'd be reneging on their commitment to match up to 10% of salary.
Post by: steve dave on August 23, 2015, 01:40:44 PM
Post by: sys on August 23, 2015, 01:43:22 PM
This is how it normally works. Say they offer a 100% match up to 6%. So, as long as I put in 6% of my salary they put in another 6%. I put in 20% they would still put in 6%. I put in 3% they put in 3%.
how would they handle it if you put in 12% for the first six months of a year and 0% for the second six months?
Post by: steve dave on August 23, 2015, 01:45:15 PM
This is how it normally works. Say they offer a 100% match up to 6%. So, as long as I put in 6% of my salary they put in another 6%. I put in 20% they would still put in 6%. I put in 3% they put in 3%.
how would they handle it if you put in 12% for the first six months of a year and 0% for the second six months?
they match ours every pay period so you'd still get 6% for the first six and zero for the second.
Post by: sys on August 23, 2015, 01:48:50 PM
they match ours every pay period so you'd still get 6% for the first six and zero for the second.
that's kinda messed up too, then. didn't fully realize how great my company's match is.
Post by: michigancat on August 23, 2015, 01:58:03 PM
Seems like they should still have to pay you the match for the months they owe you when you leave.I don't think so. They don't have to give us any match.
sounds like this is negotiable.
When would I negotiate this? When I leave? What leverage would I have at that point? Keep in mind I had no idea it was done this way when I accepted the job. (I didn't know about my bonus eligibility, either, which was a much nicer surprise than the lump sum match was a nuisance.)
Post by: michigancat on August 23, 2015, 01:59:55 PM
Post by: sys on August 23, 2015, 02:06:12 PM
And keep in mind they're only matching half up to 6%.
man, that sucks.
Post by: AbeFroman on August 23, 2015, 02:39:48 PM
Post by: steve dave on August 23, 2015, 03:34:39 PM
Post by: sys on August 23, 2015, 04:48:23 PM
ITT I learn a lot of people have garbage benefits
i get 50% of however much the taxman lets me put in. and as far as i know, the timing throughout the year doesn't matter. there is a 5 year vest, but it goes up 20, 40, 60, 80% each year through year 5, so it's not all or nothing. i knew it was pretty good, but i'd didn't realize all the little traps some of these other companies used to make theirs worse than they seemed.
Post by: meow meow on August 23, 2015, 06:58:56 PM
Post by: Mrs. Gooch on August 23, 2015, 08:12:56 PM
Why would you contribute half the year and then stop the second half, I feel like no one would do that
There's a yearly max to contributions, so maybe if you hit that.
Post by: steve dave on August 23, 2015, 08:17:03 PM
Why would you contribute half the year and then stop the second half, I feel like no one would do that
If you are leaving the company in 6 months
Post by: wetwillie on August 23, 2015, 08:55:59 PM
Post by: WonderMeal on August 23, 2015, 09:21:43 PM
She left about eight months before the match, but they still paid it out when the date came. :Woot:
Post by: steve dave on August 23, 2015, 09:22:44 PM
dont most companies have a fairly lengthy vesting period before you can realize the contributions?
Ours has none
Post by: WonderMeal on August 23, 2015, 09:29:46 PM
Ours has none
Euros, right?
Post by: sys on August 23, 2015, 09:42:07 PM
She left about eight months before the match, but they still paid it out when the date came. :Woot:
that's good to hear, wm.
Post by: treysolid on August 23, 2015, 10:16:33 PM
and i work at a non-profit so some of you have shitty benefits.
Post by: michigancat on August 23, 2015, 11:13:44 PM
Yeah, hopefully my job does the same.She left about eight months before the match, but they still paid it out when the date came. :Woot:
that's good to hear, wm.
Post by: The1BigWillie on August 24, 2015, 09:03:15 AM
Post by: The Big Train on August 24, 2015, 09:12:38 AM
Post by: slobber on August 24, 2015, 09:22:10 AM
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: The Big Train on August 24, 2015, 09:33:43 AM
Post by: sys on August 24, 2015, 10:32:51 AM
Post by: slobber on August 24, 2015, 10:43:03 AM
this is part of the $80 mil processThat plan is more of a 28% annual returns for the rest of my life. I think any setbacks are going to kill me because the current principle is more than I will be adding in the future.
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: The Big Train on August 24, 2015, 10:50:16 AM
Post by: steve dave on August 24, 2015, 11:17:27 AM
Ours has none
Euros, right?
confirmed
Post by: sys on August 24, 2015, 11:59:00 AM
:Woot:
well, that didn't last long. :frown:
Post by: ShellShock on August 24, 2015, 01:18:40 PM
Apple opened at $94.80, well under the $125 average over the past month.
Netflix opened up at $88.75, well under the $120 average of the past month.
Get rich fellow wild wild cats!
Post by: wetwillie on September 29, 2015, 08:29:09 AM
If you didn't have a bunch of buy orders executing at opening bell this morning, then welp, sucks for you guys! :Woot: :kstategrad:
Apple opened at $94.80, well under the $125 average over the past month.
Netflix opened up at $88.75, well under the $120 average of the past month.
Get rich fellow wild wild cats!
Did you realize these gains yet or are you going to ride it higher?
Post by: ShellShock on September 29, 2015, 09:47:49 AM
If you didn't have a bunch of buy orders executing at opening bell this morning, then welp, sucks for you guys! :Woot: :kstategrad:
Apple opened at $94.80, well under the $125 average over the past month.
Netflix opened up at $88.75, well under the $120 average of the past month.
Get rich fellow wild wild cats!
Did you realize these gains yet or are you going to ride it higher?
I'm planning on letting it ride honestly...i'm in no hurry to get out at this point and I think that after the Fed decides what the heck they're going to do with the rates, we'll have a great 2-3 year boost. I'll probably sit on it for that time then figure out my next move.
Post by: The Big Train on October 15, 2015, 12:44:21 PM
Post by: sys on October 15, 2015, 01:02:36 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2015/10/14/investing/start-investing-stash-acorn/index.html
those fees are ridiculous.
Post by: Emo EMAW on October 15, 2015, 01:05:04 PM
Post by: ShellShock on October 23, 2015, 05:14:26 PM
Post by: slobber on October 23, 2015, 05:23:35 PM
If you guys haven't already you should take advantage of this bounce and get out while you still can.yeah, market timing. Nice.
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: slobber on October 23, 2015, 05:30:10 PM
Hopefully you all had some $GOOGL shares today and saw that nifty jump after their results and buyback program release :kstategrad:if you've owned it for longer than like a week and less than 3 months, you are still down. (Didn't look, but I bet my range is close). Need full disclosure for the noobs when you share info like this.
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: ShellShock on October 28, 2015, 09:35:40 AM
Hopefully you all had some $GOOGL shares today and saw that nifty jump after their results and buyback program release :kstategrad:if you've owned it for longer than like a week and less than 3 months, you are still down. (Didn't look, but I bet my range is close). Need full disclosure for the noobs when you share info like this.
Gonna win 'em all!
I agree. If you're buying Google right now you're probably not a great investor though because it's at it's all time high and has been floating around the high for the last couple months. I've been holding onto my shares for a couple years now and i'm hoping that the momentum with this stock keeps up!
Post by: Emo EMAW on October 28, 2015, 09:56:47 AM
Hopefully you all had some $GOOGL shares today and saw that nifty jump after their results and buyback program release :kstategrad:if you've owned it for longer than like a week and less than 3 months, you are still down. (Didn't look, but I bet my range is close). Need full disclosure for the noobs when you share info like this.
Gonna win 'em all!
I agree. If you're buying Google right now you're probably not a great investor though because it's at it's all time high and has been floating around the high for the last couple months. I've been holding onto my shares for a couple years now and i'm hoping that the momentum with this stock keeps up!
Hopefully you're moving up your stops pretty tight.
Post by: ShellShock on October 28, 2015, 10:29:02 AM
Hopefully you all had some $GOOGL shares today and saw that nifty jump after their results and buyback program release :kstategrad:if you've owned it for longer than like a week and less than 3 months, you are still down. (Didn't look, but I bet my range is close). Need full disclosure for the noobs when you share info like this.
Gonna win 'em all!
I agree. If you're buying Google right now you're probably not a great investor though because it's at it's all time high and has been floating around the high for the last couple months. I've been holding onto my shares for a couple years now and i'm hoping that the momentum with this stock keeps up!
Hopefully you're moving up your stops pretty tight.
I usually move them once or twice per month. IMO, any more than that seems a bit excessive.
Post by: Emo EMAW on October 28, 2015, 11:48:22 AM
Hopefully you all had some $GOOGL shares today and saw that nifty jump after their results and buyback program release :kstategrad:if you've owned it for longer than like a week and less than 3 months, you are still down. (Didn't look, but I bet my range is close). Need full disclosure for the noobs when you share info like this.
Gonna win 'em all!
I agree. If you're buying Google right now you're probably not a great investor though because it's at it's all time high and has been floating around the high for the last couple months. I've been holding onto my shares for a couple years now and i'm hoping that the momentum with this stock keeps up!
Hopefully you're moving up your stops pretty tight.
I usually move them once or twice per month. IMO, any more than that seems a bit excessive.
Well you should move them based on how much the stock moves. If you're lazy just use trailing stops.
Post by: Emo EMAW on December 10, 2015, 09:51:20 AM
Post by: meow meow on December 10, 2015, 10:10:22 AM
Post by: ShellShock on December 10, 2015, 10:43:39 AM
I believe once you hit the limit, your employee will stop withholding money from your paycheck. What's the limit, 18k? 18.5?
18k in 2015 and 2016 if you're not old.
Post by: michigancat on December 10, 2015, 10:44:47 AM
Post by: slobber on December 10, 2015, 10:59:58 AM
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: meow meow on December 10, 2015, 11:19:20 AM
I have to manage mine. You can actually invest more than the limit, the overage just goes in as after tax $ and you will still be taxed on earnings. I am in a Roth 401k, so all of my money goes in after tax, so any overage just loses the tax free growth.
Gonna win 'em all!
How much can you contribute to a Roth 401k per year?
Post by: Emo EMAW on December 10, 2015, 11:23:17 AM
Post by: michigancat on December 10, 2015, 11:23:55 AM
I think it's $18k. So like, let's say I contribute $760 per pay check, 24 times a year. 23 paychecks x $760 = $17,480. That last paycheck, will it allow me to contribute the final $520 or just reject the whole thing completely? Guessing it probably depends on my company's payroll software.
ask someone in hr
Post by: Brock Landers on December 10, 2015, 12:05:49 PM
I have to manage mine. You can actually invest more than the limit, the overage just goes in as after tax $ and you will still be taxed on earnings. I am in a Roth 401k, so all of my money goes in after tax, so any overage just loses the tax free growth.
Gonna win 'em all!
How much can you contribute to a Roth 401k per year?
It has the same $18k limit but the limit is cumulative between regular 401k and Roth 401k plans.
Post by: The Big Train on December 10, 2015, 12:09:55 PM
Post by: TheProdigiousTalent on December 11, 2015, 02:19:34 AM
I think it's $18k. So like, let's say I contribute $760 per pay check, 24 times a year. 23 paychecks x $760 = $17,480. That last paycheck, will it allow me to contribute the final $520 or just reject the whole thing completely? Guessing it probably depends on my company's payroll software.Unless you work for a tiny company, I would be shocked if the system isn't smart enough to shrink your last contribution to hit the max. Just imagine the hassles they would have to deal with otherwise.
This is how it has always worked for me (I front load and max out early in the year)...although my contributions are defined as a % rather than a fixed amount. :kstategrad:
Post by: Emo EMAW on December 11, 2015, 08:40:26 AM
For example, my wife recently changed jobs, and the family was on her health care plan, so we switched to mine for the balance of the year. They have been deducting money from my pay check, but United Health Care has never sent cards, I call them and they say we are not insured.
Post by: meow meow on December 11, 2015, 09:13:53 AM
Mine as % as well. I do work for a large company, but I wouldn't put any sort of excessive stupidity out of their capability.
For example, my wife recently changed jobs, and the family was on her health care plan, so we switched to mine for the balance of the year. They have been deducting money from my pay check, but United Health Care has never sent cards, I call them and they say we are not insured.
you might want to "do a little more digging" into that sitch
Post by: Emo EMAW on December 11, 2015, 09:19:16 AM
Mine as % as well. I do work for a large company, but I wouldn't put any sort of excessive stupidity out of their capability.
For example, my wife recently changed jobs, and the family was on her health care plan, so we switched to mine for the balance of the year. They have been deducting money from my pay check, but United Health Care has never sent cards, I call them and they say we are not insured.
you might want to "do a little more digging" into that sitch
Ya I'm on it, thanks.
Post by: The Big Train on December 27, 2015, 09:12:28 PM
Post by: IPA4Me on December 29, 2015, 11:41:43 AM
Did you get resolution? Sounds like a bad situation.Mine as % as well. I do work for a large company, but I wouldn't put any sort of excessive stupidity out of their capability.
For example, my wife recently changed jobs, and the family was on her health care plan, so we switched to mine for the balance of the year. They have been deducting money from my pay check, but United Health Care has never sent cards, I call them and they say we are not insured.
you might want to "do a little more digging" into that sitch
Ya I'm on it, thanks.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Post by: DQ12 on December 29, 2015, 12:50:45 PM
What say YOU gE.c investing elites?
Post by: Kat Kid on December 29, 2015, 12:52:52 PM
About to start dollar cost averaging into an index fund (probably S&P). Too safe? Not safe enough?
What say YOU gE.c investing elites?
That is the move. You may want to pick a targeted retirement fund from vanguard as they are slightly more aggressive and have very low costs. If that isn't an option, then just do the index.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: wetwillie on December 29, 2015, 12:54:31 PM
Post by: wetwillie on December 29, 2015, 12:54:48 PM
Post by: slobber on December 29, 2015, 12:57:14 PM
About to start dollar cost averaging into an index fund (probably S&P). Too safe? Not safe enough?How much money are we talking about moving? If it's not very much, just put it all in now. Don't Dick around with it.
What say YOU gE.c investing elites?
Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
Post by: Emo EMAW on December 29, 2015, 01:00:13 PM
Did you get resolution? Sounds like a bad situation.Mine as % as well. I do work for a large company, but I wouldn't put any sort of excessive stupidity out of their capability.
For example, my wife recently changed jobs, and the family was on her health care plan, so we switched to mine for the balance of the year. They have been deducting money from my pay check, but United Health Care has never sent cards, I call them and they say we are not insured.
you might want to "do a little more digging" into that sitch
Ya I'm on it, thanks.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Yes, covered now. I didn't really get an answer on what the issue was, just that it was resolved and we promptly received our cards. I'm debating asking for a refund for the couple hundred bucks I spent while allegedly not being insured. Probably won't though.
Post by: Emo EMAW on December 30, 2015, 08:43:12 AM
Post by: ShellShock on January 05, 2016, 07:46:38 AM
Post by: steve dave on January 05, 2016, 07:47:42 AM
About to start dollar cost averaging into an index fund (probably S&P). Too safe? Not safe enough?How much money are we talking about moving? If it's not very much, just put it all in now. Don't Dick around with it.
What say YOU gE.c investing elites?
Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
nice work dobs :frown:
Post by: Emo EMAW on January 05, 2016, 07:57:41 AM
Post by: DQ12 on January 05, 2016, 11:17:10 AM
I was just thinking about this! No worries, it's a decent chunk of change, so I was always going to DCA (plus I wanted to get used to making this a habit), but in any event, I haven't even started yet!About to start dollar cost averaging into an index fund (probably S&P). Too safe? Not safe enough?How much money are we talking about moving? If it's not very much, just put it all in now. Don't Dick around with it.
What say YOU gE.c investing elites?
Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
nice work dobs :frown:
Post by: sys on January 05, 2016, 11:54:35 AM
if so, pretty sure that has been shown to generally lose money compared to just investing 100% immediately.
Post by: Emo EMAW on January 05, 2016, 12:56:44 PM
when you say dca, you mean that you already have cash and instead of just taking 100% of that cash and investing it now, you will hold the cash back and trickle it into investments over time, correct?
if so, pretty sure that has been shown to generally lose money compared to just investing 100% immediately.
He's saying he already has some stuff and it has lost money but he's going to make himself feel better by buying more of it at a lower price and thereby reduce his average cost per share.
Post by: ShellShock on January 05, 2016, 10:16:28 PM
Do NOT listen to ShellShock. The chickens are coming home to roost this year. Stay in sectors or stocks or cash, or ride the index funds down. Better buying oppy's coming later this year.
Completely disagree! China and the Asian markets will get their crap figured out and we'll all be a little richer!
Post by: Emo EMAW on January 07, 2016, 08:20:29 AM
Do NOT listen to ShellShock. The chickens are coming home to roost this year. Stay in sectors or stocks or cash, or ride the index funds down. Better buying oppy's coming later this year.
Completely disagree! China and the Asian markets will get their crap figured out and we'll all be a little richer!
:popcorn:
Post by: ShellShock on January 08, 2016, 10:54:49 AM
Do NOT listen to ShellShock. The chickens are coming home to roost this year. Stay in sectors or stocks or cash, or ride the index funds down. Better buying oppy's coming later this year.
Completely disagree! China and the Asian markets will get their crap figured out and we'll all be a little richer!
:popcorn:
I'll give you the win on this round...
Post by: Kat Kid on January 12, 2016, 02:48:48 PM
(https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/get-there/wp-content/uploads/sites/37/2016/01/fidelity-retirement-guide-.jpg&w=1484)
Post by: hemmy on January 12, 2016, 04:06:10 PM
Post by: slobber on January 12, 2016, 04:10:38 PM
I'm going to stop saving, I don't want to out-pace that chart.that chart can get mumped .
Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
Post by: Kat Kid on January 12, 2016, 04:20:54 PM
I'm going to stop saving, I don't want to out-pace that chart.
I definitely am outpacing that chart and it feels awesome.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: CHONGS on January 12, 2016, 04:41:29 PM
Post by: wetwillie on January 12, 2016, 05:03:37 PM
Post by: CHONGS on January 12, 2016, 06:34:47 PM
Welcome to 2014 chingonHey I was in prison for a while...
Post by: troubledscribe on January 12, 2016, 07:27:20 PM
Welcome to 2014 chingonHey I was in prison for a while...
No penny stocks
Post by: ben ji on January 14, 2016, 09:56:13 AM
My deductible is 5k and I am a fit young single EMAW who has never had any medical issues.
I plan on contributing the max of $3,350 and basically dumping it in the closest thing they have to a S&P500 Index Fund.
My questions-
1. Doing some research it appears that conventional wisdom is to leave the HSA untouched unless you have can't pay the full deductibe out of checking/savings, correct?
For example if I get poison ivy while fishing and have to get some drugs from a doc I should pay this all out of pocket, lets say $500 (No idea if this is reasonable but lets go with it).
2. If I save the receipt I can reimburse myself the $500 tax free from my HSA at any time in the future correct?
Lets say I get poison Ivy 3 years in a row, I now have $1,500 that I can withdraw anytime from my HSA tax free if I needed it. But I won't withdraw it because that $1,500 in tax free money is earning interest and growing in my HSA.
Taking it further lets say i spend $500 out of pocket every year for 30 years. I now have 15k I can withdraw tax free to help purchase the goEMAW ranch where I give fishing tours and SD runs cattle and Emo wires up windmills for electricity etc.
Am I doing this right?
Post by: steve dave on January 14, 2016, 10:01:06 AM
Post by: ben ji on January 14, 2016, 10:08:06 AM
that seems like a huge PITA (record keeping) and I don't know how the rules apply to late withdrawals. I don't see the advantage of not just paying for the medical expenses out of the HSA as they arise. then just save that money you would have paid for those expenses in a normal investment account.
I assumed that its because your funds in the HSA are pretax, you want to keep them earning as much money as possible in a tax sheltered account.
Say I have a $1000 medical bill. I could reimburse myself that amount and stick it in a regular brokerage account but then I would have to pay tax on anything I earn....By leaving that $1,000 in the HSA I will not pay any taxes on the gains (Assuming I withdraw them after 59.5 or whatever the age is)
Post by: ben ji on January 14, 2016, 10:12:02 AM
If I do need to reimburse myself from the HSA I would just sell the stock I owned and use that cash correct?
Once you have over say 10k, would it make sense to leave a couple thousand in a low risk/reward account to protect against having to sell the stock in a downturn? Or over the long term would the expected gains of that couple thousand out weigh the risk of having to sell in a downturn?
Post by: Mrs. Gooch on January 14, 2016, 10:12:08 AM
Post by: steve dave on January 14, 2016, 10:15:27 AM
that seems like a huge PITA (record keeping) and I don't know how the rules apply to late withdrawals. I don't see the advantage of not just paying for the medical expenses out of the HSA as they arise. then just save that money you would have paid for those expenses in a normal investment account.
I assumed that its because your funds in the HSA are pretax, you want to keep them earning as much money as possible in a tax sheltered account.
Say I have a $1000 medical bill. I could reimburse myself that amount and stick it in a regular brokerage account but then I would have to pay tax on anything I earn....By leaving that $1,000 in the HSA I will not pay any taxes on the gains (Assuming I withdraw them after 59.5 or whatever the age is)
yeah, but that HSA money isn't going anywhere. your stating it will continue to grow tax free holds true for the rest of your life. why not just keep it in there instead of using it for some purchase in a few years? not worth the benefit imo (because it sounds like a PITA). and honestly, you won't be having any medical expenses for a long time hopefully so you shouldn't have to worry about it and dragging around 10 year old walgreens receipts isn't worth it. But, if you are maxing out all of your pre-tax investment options A) good for you B) then this may be a reasonable plan.
Post by: steve dave on January 14, 2016, 10:19:42 AM
Another question.
If I do need to reimburse myself from the HSA I would just sell the stock I owned and use that cash correct?
Once you have over say 10k, would it make sense to leave a couple thousand in a low risk/reward account to protect against having to sell the stock in a downturn? Or over the long term would the expected gains of that couple thousand out weigh the risk of having to sell in a downturn?
I have like half of mine invested in a vanguard S&P fund and the other half available for use.
Post by: chum1 on January 14, 2016, 10:48:08 AM
Post by: slobber on January 14, 2016, 12:23:30 PM
Is he doing it wrong? He says it is the only way you can make money work for you three times: goes in pre-tax, grows tax free, comes out for future old ballz medical expenses tax free. He wants to have $200,000 in his HSA when he retires.
Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
Post by: steve dave on January 14, 2016, 03:14:27 PM
My Canadian friend, who happens to operate under US tax laws, says that he pays out of pocket and then writes off the expenses as medical expenses. His wife sometimes messes up and uses the HSA, but he forgives her.
Is he doing it wrong? He says it is the only way you can make money work for you three times: goes in pre-tax, grows tax free, comes out for future old ballz medical expenses tax free. He wants to have $200,000 in his HSA when he retires.
Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
you may want to let your canadian friend know that in the U S A you have to have medical expenses in excess of 10% of your AG income to deduct them. And then you can only deduct the portion above that 10%.
Post by: Fedor on January 14, 2016, 03:42:34 PM
Yes, I have to explain this to Mrs. Fedor every year. I tell her when one of us gets cancer we can finally deduct something.My Canadian friend, who happens to operate under US tax laws, says that he pays out of pocket and then writes off the expenses as medical expenses. His wife sometimes messes up and uses the HSA, but he forgives her.
Is he doing it wrong? He says it is the only way you can make money work for you three times: goes in pre-tax, grows tax free, comes out for future old ballz medical expenses tax free. He wants to have $200,000 in his HSA when he retires.
Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
you may want to let your canadian friend know that in the U S A you have to have medical expenses in excess of 10% of your AG income to deduct them. And then you can only deduct the portion above that 10%.
Post by: slobber on January 14, 2016, 03:54:58 PM
Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
Post by: slobber on January 14, 2016, 03:55:26 PM
Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
Post by: Fedor on January 14, 2016, 04:05:54 PM
I will let him know that the first $10k is on him completely.I will alert the IRS that a big check is coming, sounds like your Canadian friend owes a shitload of back taxes.
Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
Post by: slobber on January 14, 2016, 04:07:47 PM
He said he pays somebody $300/year to handle this crap. No worries. His guy is doing it right.I will let him know that the first $10k is on him completely.I will alert the IRS that a big check is coming, sounds like your Canadian friend owes a shitload of back taxes.
Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
Post by: steve dave on January 14, 2016, 07:34:55 PM
Post by: Bill Clarahan on January 15, 2016, 11:52:48 AM
Post by: Emo EMAW on January 15, 2016, 12:10:02 PM
Post by: Emo EMAW on January 15, 2016, 12:18:59 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on January 15, 2016, 02:22:20 PM
Post by: Emo EMAW on January 15, 2016, 02:46:57 PM
Post by: Bill Clarahan on January 15, 2016, 08:16:26 PM
OR you could be partying balls because you've been in a 3x short ETF for almost two months. :emawkid:
Wise move grasshopper, I prefer e-mini's myself but as the old asying goes.....it's your peter and your soap, wash it any way you want
Post by: eastcat on January 17, 2016, 06:14:01 PM
Look up 'decay'
Post by: ShellShock on January 18, 2016, 02:19:15 PM
Today would be a good day to be under a rock, a big rock to shield you from the crap pouring down on your head if you're heavily invested in the stock scam. A piece of advice from an old man, the only real worth you have is when you cash in.
This. Enjoy the long ride fellas! Hopefully none of you are planning on retiring anytime soon.
Post by: Emo EMAW on January 19, 2016, 08:37:09 AM
3x anything is asinine.
Look up 'decay'
I'm very familiar with decay. What's asinine is my trading account right now. :D
Post by: ChiComCat on January 19, 2016, 10:14:59 AM
Today would be a good day to be under a rock, a big rock to shield you from the crap pouring down on your head if you're heavily invested in the stock scam. A piece of advice from an old man, the only real worth you have is when you cash in.
This. Enjoy the long ride fellas! Hopefully none of you are planning on retiring anytime soon.
Hopefully you remember where you dug the hole to bury your money
Post by: Emo EMAW on January 20, 2016, 10:44:41 AM
Dec 4, 2015:
SPXU: 30.06 (http://www.proshares.com/funds/spxu.html)
SH: 20.48
S&P 500: 2091.69
Today:
SPXU: 43.17
SH: 23.18
S&P 500: 1830.30
Had someone bought $10k of SPXU (S&P 3x short) on Dec 4, today they would have $14,361, a gain of 43.6% over the principal, and a profit of $4,361.
Conversely, had someone straight up shorted $30k (three times the 10k investment) of the S&P 500, they'd have today $33,749, a profit of only $3,749. That's not even included expenses and whatever if you used an ETF to do it. If you did use the SH ETF and bought $30k, today you'd have $33,955, profit of $3,955.00. More money. Ridiculous.
Post by: Kat Kid on January 20, 2016, 11:56:19 AM
Haven't run all the numbers yet and need to look at my HOA bylaws for what restrictions there are on renting, but I am liking the idea of the investment property. Will shift some $ to the real estate fund and stop contributing as much to the market.
Post by: The Big Train on January 20, 2016, 12:16:40 PM
Post by: Emo EMAW on February 08, 2016, 10:27:07 AM
Post by: sys on February 08, 2016, 12:14:45 PM
Post by: sys on February 18, 2016, 07:02:30 PM
Quote
Also, here we can go later on if you want even more categories, this is the NIVEA MEN Creme. You know, we are an absolute number one in men in the world and that thing has boosted penetration like nothing before. Why it does that is very simple? Normally, a face cream of NIVEA MEN cost you around €7, €8. This costs €3.95 and you have double or triple the content in it. And that is a way to grow to penetrate, because in men, one of the biggest potential in men is to penetrate men even more, so that more men using men, that was exactly spot on.
Post by: The Big Train on March 04, 2016, 08:21:53 PM
Post by: Fedor on May 04, 2016, 09:31:27 AM
Thanks but no thanks TBT, not interested in digital currency. I looked at gold funds and that would have been a good idea three months ago. What is the new hawtness? :dunno:
Post by: eastcat on May 04, 2016, 09:33:47 AM
Post by: star seed 7 on May 04, 2016, 09:34:04 AM
Post by: Emo EMAW on May 04, 2016, 09:36:23 AM
Post by: TCUHornedFrog on May 04, 2016, 09:36:49 AM
What is a hot buy today, guyz? I have some :th_twocents: that need to get to work earning that paper.
Thanks but no thanks TBT, not interested in digital currency. I looked at gold funds and that would have been a good idea three months ago. What is the new hawtness? :dunno:
Despite their recent rally, emerging markets are still the most attractively valued asset class.
Post by: Fedor on May 04, 2016, 09:40:27 AM
index it and forget it.I like to play around a little. Also I have some in index funds already, looking to diversify.
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on May 04, 2016, 09:41:07 AM
Post by: Fedor on May 04, 2016, 09:45:33 AM
PokerIf I stake you what kind of return can you guarantee?
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on May 04, 2016, 09:47:55 AM
My average is $60 turns into $200. That's a $140 profit. Just do the numbers from there. :cheers:PokerIf I stake you what kind of return can you guarantee?
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on May 04, 2016, 09:48:19 AM
Post by: Mrs. Gooch on May 04, 2016, 10:05:50 AM
What is a hot buy today, guyz? I have some :th_twocents: that need to get to work earning that paper.
Thanks but no thanks TBT, not interested in digital currency. I looked at gold funds and that would have been a good idea three months ago. What is the new hawtness? :dunno:
Invest in hoverboards.
Post by: Fedor on May 04, 2016, 10:13:49 AM
Are these results scalable? Can you turn $6k into $20k? If so this may be the start of something beautiful.My average is $60 turns into $200. That's a $140 profit. Just do the numbers from there. :cheers:PokerIf I stake you what kind of return can you guarantee?
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on May 04, 2016, 10:14:39 AM
Post by: steve dave on May 04, 2016, 10:16:47 AM
Post by: Fedor on May 04, 2016, 10:20:47 AM
Gold is going to be good for a while. The other precious metals usually follow gold, so I think silver is getting hot now too but I don't follow silver.Looks like silver is about 2 months behind gold, so I am only one month late. :Crybaby:
Also apparently copper sucks all the time.
Maybe you could tell me when gold goes in the crapper and I could jump in and make bank and we all party?
Post by: Fedor on May 04, 2016, 10:22:49 AM
I think those are only for drunk dorks and twelve year olds.What is a hot buy today, guyz? I have some :th_twocents: that need to get to work earning that paper.
Thanks but no thanks TBT, not interested in digital currency. I looked at gold funds and that would have been a good idea three months ago. What is the new hawtness? :dunno:
Invest in hoverboards.
Post by: Mrs. Gooch on May 04, 2016, 10:24:19 AM
I think those are only for drunk dorks and twelve year olds.What is a hot buy today, guyz? I have some :th_twocents: that need to get to work earning that paper.
Thanks but no thanks TBT, not interested in digital currency. I looked at gold funds and that would have been a good idea three months ago. What is the new hawtness? :dunno:
Invest in hoverboards.
Invest in hoverboard stock because drunk dorks spend a lot of money when they are blacked out and twelve year olds have moms who spend money on them.
Post by: ChiComCat on May 04, 2016, 10:24:28 AM
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on May 04, 2016, 10:25:03 AM
Clear cut choice is giving it to Fanning. Even if he takes a cut, he should be able to double your money on one weekend bender:D
Post by: Emo EMAW on May 04, 2016, 10:31:51 AM
Gold is going to be good for a while. The other precious metals usually follow gold, so I think silver is getting hot now too but I don't follow silver.Looks like silver is about 2 months behind gold, so I am only one month late. :Crybaby:
Also apparently copper sucks all the time.
Maybe you could tell me when gold goes in the crapper and I could jump in and make bank and we all party?
Buy low sell high is a joke. Buy high sell higher is the way.
Post by: sys on May 04, 2016, 11:11:47 AM
Pizza locale
actually been considering this. not a fan of the genre though.
Post by: catastrophe on May 04, 2016, 12:58:51 PM
Gold is going to be good for a while. The other precious metals usually follow gold, so I think silver is getting hot now too but I don't follow silver.Looks like silver is about 2 months behind gold, so I am only one month late. :Crybaby:
Also apparently copper sucks all the time.
Maybe you could tell me when gold goes in the crapper and I could jump in and make bank and we all party?
Buy low sell high is a joke. Buy high sell higher is the way.
Actually, buy high, sell low, buy low can be a good strategy depending on your tax bracket.
Post by: Fedor on May 04, 2016, 02:01:05 PM
index it and forget it.I found that SPY is a fund that tries to mirror the DOW. The graphs are right on top of each other. I guess it does not get any more index than that.
Post by: Fedor on May 04, 2016, 02:42:32 PM
Last year I bought high - watch in horror as it plunges to 52 week lows in a week. Twice.Gold is going to be good for a while. The other precious metals usually follow gold, so I think silver is getting hot now too but I don't follow silver.Looks like silver is about 2 months behind gold, so I am only one month late. :Crybaby:
Also apparently copper sucks all the time.
Maybe you could tell me when gold goes in the crapper and I could jump in and make bank and we all party?
Buy low sell high is a joke. Buy high sell higher is the way.
So you could say I am a little risk averse right now.
Post by: Emo EMAW on May 04, 2016, 02:50:38 PM
Last year I bought high - watch in horror as it plunges to 52 week lows in a week. Twice.Gold is going to be good for a while. The other precious metals usually follow gold, so I think silver is getting hot now too but I don't follow silver.Looks like silver is about 2 months behind gold, so I am only one month late. :Crybaby:
Also apparently copper sucks all the time.
Maybe you could tell me when gold goes in the crapper and I could jump in and make bank and we all party?
Buy low sell high is a joke. Buy high sell higher is the way.
So you could say I am a little risk averse right now.
Sell stops dude.
Post by: star seed 7 on May 04, 2016, 02:55:29 PM
Post by: wetwillie on May 04, 2016, 03:10:57 PM
Post by: Fedor on May 04, 2016, 03:23:35 PM
Fedor you have a gambling problemI have x5+ the rest of my investments so it was a temporary setback. Poor timing more than anything, one of them is (almost) back in the black already.
Post by: Fedor on May 04, 2016, 03:28:09 PM
Longer term one of them should work out fine, the other I am not so sure. :ohno: :pray:Last year I bought high - watch in horror as it plunges to 52 week lows in a week. Twice.Gold is going to be good for a while. The other precious metals usually follow gold, so I think silver is getting hot now too but I don't follow silver.Looks like silver is about 2 months behind gold, so I am only one month late. :Crybaby:
Also apparently copper sucks all the time.
Maybe you could tell me when gold goes in the crapper and I could jump in and make bank and we all party?
Buy low sell high is a joke. Buy high sell higher is the way.
So you could say I am a little risk averse right now.
Sell stops dude.
Post by: TCUHornedFrog on May 04, 2016, 03:29:20 PM
I found that SPY is a fund that tries to mirror the DOW. The graphs are right on top of each other. I guess it does not get any more index than that.
S&P 500 but whatevs
Post by: Emo EMAW on May 04, 2016, 03:29:51 PM
Longer term one of them should work out fine, the other I am not so sure. :ohno: :pray:Last year I bought high - watch in horror as it plunges to 52 week lows in a week. Twice.Gold is going to be good for a while. The other precious metals usually follow gold, so I think silver is getting hot now too but I don't follow silver.Looks like silver is about 2 months behind gold, so I am only one month late. :Crybaby:
Also apparently copper sucks all the time.
Maybe you could tell me when gold goes in the crapper and I could jump in and make bank and we all party?
Buy low sell high is a joke. Buy high sell higher is the way.
So you could say I am a little risk averse right now.
Sell stops dude.
A real addict would double down. :fatty:
Post by: Fedor on May 04, 2016, 03:39:59 PM
yah, :cheers:
I found that SPY is a fund that tries to mirror the DOW. The graphs are right on top of each other. I guess it does not get any more index than that.
S&P 500 but whatevs
Post by: eastcat on May 04, 2016, 08:18:47 PM
yah, :cheers:
I found that SPY is a fund that tries to mirror the DOW. The graphs are right on top of each other. I guess it does not get any more index than that.
S&P 500 but whatevs
SPY is for all the fools that don't know about VOO.
Better company and the lowest fees in the biz.
Post by: catastrophe on May 17, 2016, 10:13:01 AM
Post by: slobber on May 17, 2016, 10:17:22 AM
Just switched to 100% stocks allocation in my portfolio, because eff bonds, right?Yes, eff bonds.
Post by: TCUHornedFrog on May 17, 2016, 01:26:36 PM
Just switched to 100% stocks allocation in my portfolio, because eff bonds, right?
If you're young and don't mind volatility, then that's a relatively decent play.
Rising interest rates are bad for bond prices. Interest rates are more likely to increase than decrease from here.
Post by: sys on May 17, 2016, 02:07:45 PM
Post by: slobber on May 17, 2016, 02:12:04 PM
if you're young, catastrophe, you might want to consider going 125% or so stocks.Solid advice.
Post by: Fedor on May 18, 2016, 02:02:33 PM
Post by: slobber on May 18, 2016, 02:04:06 PM
Interest rate hike in June. :runaway: :runaway: :runaway: :runaway: :runaway: :runaway: :runaway: :runaway:What the hell is up with the Fed signaling that they may take 2-3 hikes this year? Talk about influencing the market.
Post by: TCUHornedFrog on May 18, 2016, 02:26:44 PM
What the hell is up with the Fed signaling that they may take 2-3 hikes this year? Talk about influencing the market.
Since the financial crisis, the Fed has felt it is important to be clear about what they're thinking and the likely path of interest rate normalization. The practice started with Bernanke and Yellen likes it and plans to keep it going.
Post by: slobber on May 18, 2016, 02:28:22 PM
Yes, but mentioning the possibility of 2 or 3 seems a bit much.What the hell is up with the Fed signaling that they may take 2-3 hikes this year? Talk about influencing the market.
Since the financial crisis, the Fed has felt it is important to be clear about what they're thinking and the likely path of interest rate normalization. The practice started with Bernanke and Yellen likes it and plans to keep it going.
Post by: TCUHornedFrog on May 18, 2016, 02:45:31 PM
Yes, but mentioning the possibility of 2 or 3 seems a bit much.
The guidance they were giving coming into the year was 3-5 hikes. They lowered it based upon economic conditions.
Post by: slobber on May 18, 2016, 03:07:06 PM
SAME DIFFERENCE!!!! WHY ARE THEY TELLING US THAT THEY ARE GOING TO EFF THE MARKETS UP XXXX# OF TIMES SO FAR IN ADVANCE!!!!Yes, but mentioning the possibility of 2 or 3 seems a bit much.
The guidance they were giving coming into the year was 3-5 hikes. They lowered it based upon economic conditions.
Good grief, you should just start saying "y'all"
Post by: TCUHornedFrog on May 18, 2016, 03:31:09 PM
SAME DIFFERENCE!!!! WHY ARE THEY TELLING US THAT THEY ARE GOING TO EFF THE MARKETS UP XXXX# OF TIMES SO FAR IN ADVANCE!!!!
Good grief, you should just start saying "y'all"
The Fed offering guidance on the path of interest rates doesn't eff up the markets.
Post by: slobber on May 18, 2016, 03:33:49 PM
Then why does Wall Street give a crap?http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/18/news/economy/fed-minutes-april/index.html?iid=hp-stack-dom (http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/18/news/economy/fed-minutes-april/index.html?iid=hp-stack-dom)SAME DIFFERENCE!!!! WHY ARE THEY TELLING US THAT THEY ARE GOING TO EFF THE MARKETS UP XXXX# OF TIMES SO FAR IN ADVANCE!!!!
Good grief, you should just start saying "y'all"
The Fed offering guidance on the path of interest rates doesn't eff up the markets.
Post by: TCUHornedFrog on May 18, 2016, 03:39:01 PM
Then why does Wall Street give a crap?http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/18/news/economy/fed-minutes-april/index.html?iid=hp-stack-dom (http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/18/news/economy/fed-minutes-april/index.html?iid=hp-stack-dom)
The path of interest rates is more important that the absolute level of rates when rates are this low. Having an idea of what the Fed is going to do is huge if you are a fixed income investor. Pension plans, banks, insurance companies, and retail bond investors need to understand how/when the Fed is going to act so they don't end up having to sell things when they don't want to (losses, liquidity needs, etc.).
Also, attributing daily price movements with news that day is a bad idea. Day to day movements in markets are noise. There can be news that drives meaningful movements but, by and large, news doesn't drive daily price action.
Post by: catastrophe on May 18, 2016, 03:57:07 PM
Post by: TCUHornedFrog on May 18, 2016, 04:03:56 PM
The market always takes a dip when they announce rate hikes. I'm not quite sure why, though.
Interest rate sensitive securities drive that.
For example, let's look at a perpetual preferred 6% ($100 par) share. The theoretical value is the dividend divided by your discount rate. Given that a preferred isn't a riskless security like a Treasury, we need to add a spread to the risk free rate. So the 10 Year US Treasury currently yields 1.85%. Let's add an arbitrary 300 basis point spread for a risk premium. So 6/0.0485=$123.71 (theoretical value, not what it is actually trading at). Now, let's imagine that the Fed hikes rates by 1% and the 10 year goes to 2.85%. Keeping the same spread, that preferred's theoretical value is now 6/0.0585=$102.56.
REITs, preferreds, some dividend payers are extremely sensitive to interest rate changes.
Fixed income buyers also get hit as yields and prices are inversely related.
Post by: slobber on May 18, 2016, 04:09:12 PM
If I just send you $100,000, how quickly will you turn it into a million, after your cut?The market always takes a dip when they announce rate hikes. I'm not quite sure why, though.
Interest rate sensitive securities drive that.
For example, let's look at a perpetual preferred 6% ($100 par) share. The theoretical value is the dividend divided by your discount rate. Given that a preferred isn't a riskless security like a Treasury, we need to add a spread to the risk free rate. So the 10 Year US Treasury currently yields 1.85%. Let's add an arbitrary 300 basis point spread for a risk premium. So 6/0.0485=$123.71 (theoretical value, not what it is actually trading at). Now, let's imagine that the Fed hikes rates by 1% and the 10 year goes to 2.85%. Keeping the same spread, that preferred's theoretical value is now 6/0.0585=$102.56.
REITs, preferreds, some dividend payers are extremely sensitive to interest rate changes.
Fixed income buyers also get hit as yields and prices are inversely related.
Post by: TCUHornedFrog on May 18, 2016, 04:10:15 PM
The market always takes a dip when they announce rate hikes. I'm not quite sure why, though.
Also, the reason for the hike matters.
If we're early in the business cycle (we're not right now) then that could mean inflation is picking up faster than the central bank wants because the economy is doing awesome. A rate hike in that scenario should be positive for equities because they should benefit from better economic circumstances. If it's late in the cycle (like we are now), then rate hikes are good and bad. They're good because it means that the bank feels like they are controlling inflation. They're bad because it means that we have a higher probability for recession in that scenario.
This cycle is very different than any that anyone living has been through. We've not had rates this low for this long ever during actual investor lifetimes. The Fed is desperate to get rates up so they have an ability to meaningfully cut them if the economy starts to do poorly.
Post by: TCUHornedFrog on May 18, 2016, 04:13:58 PM
If I just send you $100,000, how quickly will you turn it into a million, after your cut?
3 months (provided I can find other "investors" to fund your returns).
Post by: slobber on May 18, 2016, 04:15:39 PM
:Woohoo: :Woohoo: wait.......If I just send you $100,000, how quickly will you turn it into a million, after your cut?
3 months (provided I can find other "investors" to fund your returns).
:bang: :lynchmob:(but like a pyramid and not lynchmob)
Post by: Emo EMAW on May 18, 2016, 04:19:03 PM
The market always takes a dip when they announce rate hikes. I'm not quite sure why, though.
Interest rate sensitive securities drive that.
For example, let's look at a perpetual preferred 6% ($100 par) share. The theoretical value is the dividend divided by your discount rate. Given that a preferred isn't a riskless security like a Treasury, we need to add a spread to the risk free rate. So the 10 Year US Treasury currently yields 1.85%. Let's add an arbitrary 300 basis point spread for a risk premium. So 6/0.0485=$123.71 (theoretical value, not what it is actually trading at). Now, let's imagine that the Fed hikes rates by 1% and the 10 year goes to 2.85%. Keeping the same spread, that preferred's theoretical value is now 6/0.0585=$102.56.
REITs, preferreds, some dividend payers are extremely sensitive to interest rate changes.
Fixed income buyers also get hit as yields and prices are inversely related.
this is nardfrog in damage control mode
Post by: TCUHornedFrog on May 18, 2016, 04:21:32 PM
this is nardfrog in damage control mode
Hardly, volatility is good. It allows you to buy things "on sale".
Post by: star seed 7 on May 18, 2016, 04:23:03 PM
invest 10-15% of your salary every year and no more. if you have leftover money, do not invest it but instead immediately spend it on life experience types of things and not things like super nice cars and new couches.
Gets delivered on Monday :thumbs:
Post by: KITNfury on May 18, 2016, 04:23:35 PM
Plus, for now it's the only way I know how to make other people's money work for me.
Post by: catastrophe on May 18, 2016, 05:45:03 PM
Post by: wetwillie on May 18, 2016, 06:06:02 PM
Post by: KITNfury on May 18, 2016, 06:30:55 PM
You are nervous about the market, but you are currently purchasing real estate with other investors' money?I didn't say nervous about the market, I said I don't know enough about it to get the returns I want.
I have a much better idea of what to look for in real estate.
Post by: KITNfury on May 18, 2016, 06:34:22 PM
In a real estate bubble too :frown:There's speculation that agrees with you, but real estate is often local. And if the property cash flows, what is the concern if the value drops? The only concern then is if jobs are leaving the area, thus reducing renters. Flippers can get burned in a fast crash though.
Post by: catastrophe on May 18, 2016, 06:52:51 PM
You are nervous about the market, but you are currently purchasing real estate with other investors' money?I didn't say nervous about the market, I said I don't know enough about it to get the returns I want.
I have a much better idea of what to look for in real estate.
That's probably fair, I guess I'm just thinking your venture actually sounds way more complex. If you just buy a few good ETFs on Vanguard that generally track the market, then you can just sit back and expect it to grow somewhere around 7% annually.
If you're talking about learning to pick stocks , though, then at best you probably have about as good of odds as you'd get at the craps tables.
Post by: KITNfury on May 18, 2016, 07:00:42 PM
Keep in mind I've been casually reading about real estate for several years and more recently reading more extensively. I have a very detailed analysis I've built and I expect over 20% ROI (based upon my down payment) on the property I'm in the process of buying. I could let a property manager take care of it and get 15%.You are nervous about the market, but you are currently purchasing real estate with other investors' money?I didn't say nervous about the market, I said I don't know enough about it to get the returns I want.
I have a much better idea of what to look for in real estate.
That's probably fair, I guess I'm just thinking your venture actually sounds way more complex. If you just buy a few good ETFs on Vanguard that generally track the market, then you can just sit back and expect it to grow somewhere around 7% annually.
If you're talking about learning to pick stocks , though, then at best you probably have about as good of odds as you'd get at the craps tables.
Properties like that aren't available everywhere all the time, but they are there. Some better than that. But to me, that's far more enticing than what the stock market can offer, particularly since I neglected equity entirely.
Post by: KITNfury on May 18, 2016, 07:03:49 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on May 18, 2016, 07:12:55 PM
I should also mention that the tax benefits on real estate are sick. Essentially I will pay almost nothing on my profits. If my projections are accurate of course. If I'm paying taxes on it, then I'm doing better than I expect
can you explain this? I thought you paid capital gains on investment properties, but I know almost nothing about tax law.
Post by: Emo EMAW on May 18, 2016, 07:14:33 PM
this is nardfrog in damage control mode
Hardly, volatility is good. It allows you to buy things "on sale".
I meant damage control from the whole smashing thing.
Post by: KITNfury on May 18, 2016, 07:19:15 PM
You pay capital gains on the sale. Unless you do a 1031 exchange, but that's another story.I should also mention that the tax benefits on real estate are sick. Essentially I will pay almost nothing on my profits. If my projections are accurate of course. If I'm paying taxes on it, then I'm doing better than I expect
can you explain this? I thought you paid capital gains on investment properties, but I know almost nothing about tax law.
If you have a rental, you get to deduct depreciation, expenses, and mortgage interest. Even though it will most likely appreciate over the long term. Depreciation on non commercial property is the nice round number of 1/27.5 of the property. I can't say for certain if that is purchase cost or appraised cost, but it's substantial either way,
In the end, the cash flow you have is usually offset by the deductions, thus very low (if any) taxes on the profits.
Post by: TCUHornedFrog on May 19, 2016, 09:14:50 AM
I meant damage control from the whole smashing thing.
No. I might have some updates for that thread after this weekend tho.
Post by: The Big Train on June 15, 2016, 08:42:49 PM
Bitcoin is down $33 today and falling fast, get out those pocket books guys :Woot:
Exchange rate when I posted this was 1 Bitcoin = $408.
Right now it's 1 Bitcoin = $729. :kstategrad:
Post by: catastrophe on June 16, 2016, 12:36:27 AM
Post by: KITNfury on June 16, 2016, 06:37:32 AM
I've read quite a bit about bitcoin, and it still makes absolutely no sense to me.It has value because people say it has value. Exact same thing as the American dollar. That's the bottom line
Post by: catastrophe on June 16, 2016, 09:50:34 AM
I've read quite a bit about bitcoin, and it still makes absolutely no sense to me.It has value because people say it has value. Exact same thing as the American dollar. That's the bottom line
Yea, but the American dollar is backed by a government worth Trillions and Trillions. That seems a significant difference to me.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 16, 2016, 09:54:47 AM
We currently do both of these things but I'm wondering if it makes more sense to put more $ towards one or the other.
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 16, 2016, 10:01:43 AM
What's your effective tax rate?
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 16, 2016, 10:09:40 AM
What's your interest rate?3.5% and I think 25%
What's your effective tax rate?
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 16, 2016, 10:46:21 AM
What's your interest rate?3.5% and I think 25%
What's your effective tax rate?
We're in the highest tax bracket and I still think we only paid like ~12% effective tax rate. You should max out your 401k contribution first ($18k/yr I think). That should, IMO, be you and your wife's first priority. At 3.5% you will always have a better idea than paying down your house. Good job on that interest rate, BTW. :cheers: Probably max out 401k's, then max out a Roth IRA after that (no tax benefits today though), then really it's kinda no man's land and you could play the stock market if you're risk averse or pay down the house or buy a rental property or something.
Post by: Kat Kid on June 16, 2016, 11:51:40 AM
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Post by: Kat Kid on June 16, 2016, 11:53:25 AM
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Post by: KITNfury on June 16, 2016, 12:12:46 PM
I've read quite a bit about bitcoin, and it still makes absolutely no sense to me.It has value because people say it has value. Exact same thing as the American dollar. That's the bottom line
Yea, but the American dollar is backed by a government worth Trillions and Trillions. That seems a significant difference to me.
The American dollar is backed by nothing. If the worldwide public lost confidence in it, it would be worthless.
Post by: KITNfury on June 16, 2016, 12:14:21 PM
Post by: wetwillie on June 16, 2016, 01:14:01 PM
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 16, 2016, 01:20:38 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on June 16, 2016, 01:27:03 PM
Everyone here completely ignores the element of risk associated with debt obligations, smdh.
like the house dramatically losing value?
Post by: steve dave on June 16, 2016, 01:37:39 PM
We're in the highest tax bracket and I still think we only paid like ~12% effective tax rate.
I'm a tax nerd so I would be very interested in finding out how you got that down to 12%
Post by: michigancat on June 16, 2016, 01:40:36 PM
Would you be surprised if he cheats?We're in the highest tax bracket and I still think we only paid like ~12% effective tax rate.
I'm a tax nerd so I would be very interested in finding out how you got that down to 12%
Post by: wetwillie on June 16, 2016, 01:44:08 PM
Everyone here completely ignores the element of risk associated with debt obligations, smdh.
like the house dramatically losing value?
This is the best I get with a Dave Ramsey troll job? Dobber will come along and nibble maybe.
Post by: Kat Kid on June 16, 2016, 01:44:57 PM
Post by: steve dave on June 16, 2016, 01:47:04 PM
Would you be surprised if he cheats?We're in the highest tax bracket and I still think we only paid like ~12% effective tax rate.
I'm a tax nerd so I would be very interested in finding out how you got that down to 12%
currently the house odds are:
1:1 - Doesn't know what the top tax bracket is
3:1 - Is lying
20:1 - Cheats (a lot)
100000:1 - Donates like $250k+ a year to some weird hunting thing or something, has 15 kids, and cheats (a smaller amount)
Post by: michigancat on June 16, 2016, 01:48:19 PM
Would you be surprised if he cheats?We're in the highest tax bracket and I still think we only paid like ~12% effective tax rate.
I'm a tax nerd so I would be very interested in finding out how you got that down to 12%
currently the house odds are:
1:1 - Doesn't know what the top tax bracket is
3:1 - Is lying
20:1 - Cheats (a lot)
100000:1 - Donates like $250k+ a year to some weird hunting thing or something, has 15 kids, and cheats (a smaller amount)
lol, that seems more accurate
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 16, 2016, 02:05:20 PM
We're in the highest tax bracket and I still think we only paid like ~12% effective tax rate.
I'm a tax nerd so I would be very interested in finding out how you got that down to 12%
My wife does the taxes. But we basically try to maximize deductions and we have a rental property for the cheating.
Also you should learn about odds. To total summation of odds should equal 1:1 if they are mutually exclusive.
Post by: KITNfury on June 16, 2016, 02:05:43 PM
Not a a tax expert, but do know of some types of income where tax rates can be very low.
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 16, 2016, 02:17:43 PM
Post by: Fedor on June 16, 2016, 02:20:02 PM
Holy crap, had no idea there were 7 tax brackets. Ya we are not even close to the highest.:lol: :facepalm:
Post by: steve dave on June 16, 2016, 02:20:59 PM
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthumbs.dreamstime.com%2Ft%2Femoticon-running-vector-illustration-53889505.jpg&hash=abdaf92ea8227f089fc7d4f9ad950b05dcd401d3)
Post by: catastrophe on June 16, 2016, 02:26:53 PM
I've read quite a bit about bitcoin, and it still makes absolutely no sense to me.It has value because people say it has value. Exact same thing as the American dollar. That's the bottom line
Yea, but the American dollar is backed by a government worth Trillions and Trillions. That seems a significant difference to me.
The American dollar is backed by nothing. If the worldwide public lost confidence in it, it would be worthless.
I disagree that it's backed by nothing, even though we're off the gold standard. In the US (probably the biggest/richest marketplace in the world) you have to accept the dollar as tender. That gives it some pretty serious inherent value.
Every merchant has a choice whether to accept non-government issued currency. That makes its value really tenuous.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 16, 2016, 02:27:57 PM
2b) you want to turn it in to a rental and want to capture more income more quicklyyeah this is the plan, like to rent out our current house within the next 3 years or so.
Post by: catastrophe on June 16, 2016, 02:28:49 PM
Holy crap, had no idea there were 7 tax brackets. Ya we are not even close to the highest.:lol: :facepalm:
Here I thought he was just some Warren Buffet type who collected capital gains and had tax shelters spread across the Caribbean.
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 16, 2016, 02:31:03 PM
Holy crap, had no idea there were 7 tax brackets. Ya we are not even close to the highest.:lol: :facepalm:
Here I thought he was just some Warren Buffet type who collected capital gains and had tax shelters spread across the Caribbean.
Working stiff. :frown: Have fished the Caribbean tho! :D
Post by: catastrophe on June 16, 2016, 02:48:28 PM
Do not pay down the house first unless 1) you still have PMI 2) you are looking to climb the property ladder and want the liquidity of a down payment for your next home 2b) you want to turn it in to a rental and want to capture more income more quickly
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Isn't there a benefit to the interest you end up paying if you pay the principle off sooner? Or am I just making that up?
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 16, 2016, 02:55:52 PM
oddly worded question but obviously less principle on the loan means you're paying less on the interestDo not pay down the house first unless 1) you still have PMI 2) you are looking to climb the property ladder and want the liquidity of a down payment for your next home 2b) you want to turn it in to a rental and want to capture more income more quickly
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Isn't there a benefit to the interest you end up paying if you pay the principle off sooner? Or am I just making that up?
Post by: star seed 7 on June 16, 2016, 02:59:42 PM
Also there should be more lower earning tax brackets and less at the high end (tho the highest should be bumped up). A step every 20-25k until 200k sounds better.
But I'm no tax nerd
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 16, 2016, 03:43:44 PM
Post by: treysolid on June 16, 2016, 03:50:41 PM
There should be a pretty high tax for the lowest income providing an incentive to earn more money and be taxed less.
This is the dumbest rough ridin' thing I've ever heard
Post by: The Big Train on June 16, 2016, 03:51:52 PM
Post by: slobber on June 16, 2016, 04:46:11 PM
Royals aren't gonna win 'em all
Post by: catastrophe on June 16, 2016, 05:01:13 PM
oddly worded question but obviously less principle on the loan means you're paying less on the interestDo not pay down the house first unless 1) you still have PMI 2) you are looking to climb the property ladder and want the liquidity of a down payment for your next home 2b) you want to turn it in to a rental and want to capture more income more quickly
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Isn't there a benefit to the interest you end up paying if you pay the principle off sooner? Or am I just making that up?
Well I know they frontload the interest payments up front so that by year 25-30 you're mainly just paying on the principle. I guess my question/point is that the additional principle payments can function like an investment (if I pay $100 now which allows me to save $20 on the back end it's like a 20% ROI). Less than you'd get in the market per year most likely, but guaranteed.
Post by: wetwillie on June 16, 2016, 05:04:51 PM
Post by: slobber on June 16, 2016, 05:12:13 PM
If you had a paid for house would you take out a mortgage on it and invest the proceeds?Oh yeah.
Royals aren't gonna win 'em all
Post by: slobber on June 16, 2016, 05:12:45 PM
If you had a paid for house would you take out a mortgage on it and invest the proceeds?Oh yeah.
Better than I deserve.
Royals aren't gonna win 'em all
Royals aren't gonna win 'em all
Post by: wetwillie on June 16, 2016, 05:26:49 PM
If you had a paid for house would you take out a mortgage on it and invest the proceeds?Oh yeah.
Royals aren't gonna win 'em all
Debt is dumb and cash is king
Post by: slobber on June 16, 2016, 05:29:11 PM
Royals aren't gonna win 'em all
Post by: Fedor on June 17, 2016, 08:34:44 AM
Mrs. Fedor got into an argument with some weirdos who were against debt of any kind. They claimed you had to pay cash for everything and any other approach was wrong.If you had a paid for house would you take out a mortgage on it and invest the proceeds?Oh yeah.
Royals aren't gonna win 'em all
Debt is dumb and cash is king
Post by: steve dave on June 17, 2016, 08:36:02 AM
Mrs. Fedor got into an argument with some weirdos who were against debt of any kind. They claimed you had to pay cash for everything and any other approach was wrong.If you had a paid for house would you take out a mortgage on it and invest the proceeds?Oh yeah.
Royals aren't gonna win 'em all
Debt is dumb and cash is king
we had a pretty prolific poster leave this message board and call rusty the N word over an argument that I believe stemmed from roughly the same thing
Post by: steve dave on June 17, 2016, 08:37:58 AM
Post by: wetwillie on June 17, 2016, 08:43:14 AM
Post by: steve dave on June 17, 2016, 08:47:25 AM
Yea I mean if you follow daves advice and live debt free and invest 15% of your income for retirement you will end up wealthy. Actually using cash and envelopes is gross AF.
there are a lot of ways to end up wealthy. and many different definitions of wealthy.
Post by: Kat Kid on June 17, 2016, 08:49:20 AM
Yea I mean if you follow daves advice and live debt free and invest 15% of your income for retirement you will end up wealthy. Actually using cash and envelopes is gross AF.
Or you will die with some cash, no debt and a cupboard full of ramen.
Post by: wetwillie on June 17, 2016, 08:55:22 AM
Yea I mean if you follow daves advice and live debt free and invest 15% of your income for retirement you will end up wealthy. Actually using cash and envelopes is gross AF.
Or you will die with some cash, no debt and a cupboard full of ramen.
I don't get the ramen thing TBH, but ok.
Post by: star seed 7 on June 17, 2016, 09:04:12 AM
I don't buy stuff I can't afford, I just don't pay the bills and then eventually the balance is like twice the original. But, that's me and I know my limitations.
I don't pay like any utility bills until they threaten to turn off service either, and then I'll just pay like 3 months worth. It's really not good.
Post by: steve dave on June 17, 2016, 09:05:55 AM
I can't handle credit cards sd, so I just don't have any :frown:
I don't buy stuff I can't afford, I just don't pay the bills and then eventually the balance is like twice the original. But, that's me and I know my limitations.
I don't pay like any utility bills until they threaten to turn off service either, and then I'll just pay like 3 months worth. It's really not good.
you should team up with someone who can handle the crap out of their money but who sucks at something you're good at and exchange services.
Post by: star seed 7 on June 17, 2016, 09:08:15 AM
I'm good at judging people, if anyone needs that service
Post by: Mrs. Gooch on June 17, 2016, 09:12:06 AM
I can't handle credit cards sd, so I just don't have any :frown:
I don't buy stuff I can't afford, I just don't pay the bills and then eventually the balance is like twice the original. But, that's me and I know my limitations.
I don't pay like any utility bills until they threaten to turn off service either, and then I'll just pay like 3 months worth. It's really not good.
you should team up with someone who can handle the crap out of their money but who sucks at something you're good at and exchange services.
That's called marriage.
Post by: KITNfury on June 17, 2016, 09:18:21 AM
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 17, 2016, 09:26:56 AM
oddly worded question but obviously less principle on the loan means you're paying less on the interestDo not pay down the house first unless 1) you still have PMI 2) you are looking to climb the property ladder and want the liquidity of a down payment for your next home 2b) you want to turn it in to a rental and want to capture more income more quickly
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Isn't there a benefit to the interest you end up paying if you pay the principle off sooner? Or am I just making that up?
Well I know they frontload the interest payments up front so that by year 25-30 you're mainly just paying on the principle. I guess my question/point is that the additional principle payments can function like an investment (if I pay $100 now which allows me to save $20 on the back end it's like a 20% ROI). Less than you'd get in the market per year most likely, but guaranteed.
You're making this more complicated than it needs to be.
Post by: Mrs. Gooch on June 17, 2016, 10:46:09 AM
oddly worded question but obviously less principle on the loan means you're paying less on the interestDo not pay down the house first unless 1) you still have PMI 2) you are looking to climb the property ladder and want the liquidity of a down payment for your next home 2b) you want to turn it in to a rental and want to capture more income more quickly
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Isn't there a benefit to the interest you end up paying if you pay the principle off sooner? Or am I just making that up?
Well I know they frontload the interest payments up front so that by year 25-30 you're mainly just paying on the principle. I guess my question/point is that the additional principle payments can function like an investment (if I pay $100 now which allows me to save $20 on the back end it's like a 20% ROI). Less than you'd get in the market per year most likely, but guaranteed.
If you paid an extra $100 now, it would save you $62.
(assuming a $100,000 loan on a 30 year mortgage at 3.5%)
Post by: TCUHornedFrog on June 17, 2016, 12:56:09 PM
Post by: ben ji on June 21, 2016, 09:49:08 PM
https://www.onefpa.org/journal/Pages/JAN16-Could-a-Health-Savings-Account-Be-Better-than-an-Employer-Matched-401(k).aspx
Quote
Summary of Recommendations
The emergence of HSAs requires reexamining the traditional financial planning advice to first take advantage of the maximum employer-matching contribution to an employee’s 401(k) account. The proper rank-ordering of the annual wealth maximizing order to invest and pay down debts for an employee who is eligible to contribute to an HSA is the following:
First: if the return from the employee’s total tax savings on an HSA contribution is greater than the percentage of the employer’s 401(k) match (see Figure 1 to determine this), contribute the maximum allowed to an HSA.6 If not, reverse the first and second recommendations.
Second: contribute enough to the employee’s 401(k) account to get the maximum employer match.
If t0 < tn, contribute to a Roth 401(k), if available. If not available, contribute to a 401(k).
If t0 > tn, contribute to a (traditional) 401(k).
Third: pay off high-interest-rate debts. Pay off the one with the highest after-tax interest rate first.
Fourth: if paying for postsecondary education, contribute to a 529 higher education savings account (or accounts) if state income tax savings result.
Fifth: contribute to a retirement account (or accounts) unmatched by the employer.
TL:DR Version
(https://www.onefpa.org/journal/PublishingImages/Pages/Journal%20Articles/Jan2015_Cont_Geisler_Figure1.png)
Post by: steve dave on June 22, 2016, 07:13:36 AM
Post by: HerrSonntag on June 22, 2016, 09:52:53 AM
Also, i just got a raise and i've decided use that raise to start contributing more than my employer match 6% to my 401k to hit the contribution limit of $18k every year. Thoughts?
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 22, 2016, 10:37:27 AM
Post by: sys on June 22, 2016, 10:43:20 AM
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 22, 2016, 10:54:07 AM
biggr house can be an investment. just evaluate as an investment, not as a place to live.
It does get evaluated as such, but I have more lucrative investment vehicles than my own house. Also increasing would be taxes, cost to operate, maintain, and remodel.
Post by: slobber on June 22, 2016, 11:43:23 AM
Royals aren't gonna win 'em all
Post by: wetwillie on June 22, 2016, 12:15:55 PM
HSA goes in pretax and comes out without being taxed.
Royals aren't gonna win 'em all
Is there a point in time when withdrawals become unrestricted or is it always medical expenses for the life of the account?
Post by: slobber on June 22, 2016, 12:33:24 PM
Royals aren't gonna win 'em all
Post by: slobber on June 22, 2016, 12:34:54 PM
Royals aren't gonna win 'em all
Post by: HerrSonntag on June 22, 2016, 12:36:03 PM
HSA goes in pretax and comes out without being taxed.
Royals aren't gonna win 'em all
Is there a point in time when withdrawals become unrestricted or is it always medical expenses for the life of the account?
Is it true that individuals 65 or older can take out funds from their HSA plan for any reason without a penalty?
If an individual is age 65 or older, regardless of whether the individual has been enrolled in Medicare, there is no penalty to withdraw funds from the HSA. As always, normal income taxes will apply if the distribution is not used for unreimbursed medical expenses (expenses not covered by the medical plan).
http://www.hsacenter.com/how-does-an-hsa-work/frequently-asked-questions/ (http://www.hsacenter.com/how-does-an-hsa-work/frequently-asked-questions/)
Post by: The Big Train on June 22, 2016, 08:24:53 PM
That includes long term care stuff. I hope to have about $500,000 in HSA when I retire. Will probably only have $200,000. That's a big difference, but it is nice to hope!
Royals aren't gonna win 'em all
The difference between 2 million egg and a 80 million egg is so small!
Post by: wetwillie on June 22, 2016, 09:15:31 PM
Bitcoin is down $33 today and falling fast, get out those pocket books guys :Woot:
Exchange rate when I posted this was 1 Bitcoin = $408.
Right now it's 1 Bitcoin = $729. :kstategrad:
Hope you sold high. It's at 558 and dropping like a rock.
Post by: The Big Train on June 22, 2016, 09:17:36 PM
Post by: Fedor on June 24, 2016, 08:22:36 AM
:excited: :excited:
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 24, 2016, 08:48:13 AM
Get ready for some bargain shopping guys!!!
:excited: :excited:
rough ridin' finally. I was starting to get nervous that we weren't going to get a decent correction in 2016.
Post by: Fedor on June 24, 2016, 08:49:22 AM
Kind of underwhelming so far.Get ready for some bargain shopping guys!!!
:excited: :excited:
rough ridin' finally. I was starting to get nervous that we weren't going to get a decent correction in 2016.
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 24, 2016, 08:50:34 AM
Kind of underwhelming so far.Get ready for some bargain shopping guys!!!
:excited: :excited:
rough ridin' finally. I was starting to get nervous that we weren't going to get a decent correction in 2016.
I know. Volume doesn't look great. If the S&P gets below 2040 it'll drop quite a bit more. I'm just not sure it will.
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 24, 2016, 02:50:47 PM
Post by: Fedor on June 24, 2016, 04:04:57 PM
It's not going to happen. Volume is too weak. :frown:I guess it is tough to get a panic going when everyone is talking about a huge panic that will happen tomorrow.
Post by: gatoveintisiete on November 22, 2016, 10:59:54 AM
Post by: wetwillie on November 22, 2016, 11:05:02 AM
Post by: Emo EMAW on November 22, 2016, 11:11:35 AM
Post by: gatoveintisiete on November 22, 2016, 11:13:52 AM
Post by: kim carnes on November 22, 2016, 09:04:34 PM
Get ready for some bargain shopping guys!!!
:excited: :excited:
rough ridin' finally. I was starting to get nervous that we weren't going to get a decent correction in 2016.
Lmao
Post by: wetwillie on December 08, 2016, 09:19:34 AM
Post by: ben ji on December 08, 2016, 10:26:18 AM
Post by: cfbandyman on December 08, 2016, 11:55:34 AM
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmetrouk2.files.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F05%2Fbizarro.gif&hash=c5110f8eabda772951148a39015f0d1a3c6f2ae8)
Post by: sys on December 08, 2016, 12:26:37 PM
Post by: kim carnes on December 08, 2016, 09:09:09 PM
Post by: EMAWican on December 08, 2016, 10:18:10 PM
Russell 2000 has been bananas the last 2 months. Why thoTrump effect on a handful of sectors.
Post by: catastrophe on December 09, 2016, 12:32:22 PM
Post by: The Big Train on December 27, 2016, 04:07:55 PM
Bitcoin is down $33 today and falling fast, get out those pocket books guys :Woot:
Exchange rate when I posted this was 1 Bitcoin = $408.
Right now it's 1 Bitcoin = $729. :kstategrad:
Hope you sold high. It's at 558 and dropping like a rock.
This is almost too easy.
Up $130 the past week and $197 in the last month. Currently selling at $928.
:kstategrad:
Post by: Kat Kid on January 23, 2017, 07:54:28 AM
I have a target retirement fund. I don't think I have admiral shares, but it says I am ineligible. I think it is because of the bolded part below.
Quote
You have no holdings eligible for Admiral™ Shares conversion. For a holding to be eligible for Admiral Shares conversion, it cannot have any account restrictions and must meet at least one of the following conditions:
$10,000 or more in an index fund that offers Admiral Shares.
$50,000 or more in an actively managed fund that offers Admiral Shares.
$100,000 or more in certain sector funds or tax-managed funds that offer Admiral Shares.
Note: Certain retirement accounts that offer special administrative services, such as SIMPLE IRAs, 403(b)(7), individual 401(k), individual Roth 401(k), qualified profit-sharing, and money purchase pension plans, may be ineligible for Admiral Shares.
I don't think it is because of the balance in the account. I would gain .10% on expense ratio, but it would be less diversified (but would be all stock, which it isn't right now after checking the fund).
Should I convert to save the .10% expense ratio? Is it worth converting anyway instead of being in a target retirement fund?
Thoughts?
Post by: treysolid on January 23, 2017, 08:42:23 AM
Vanguard IRA question:
I have a target retirement fund. I don't think I have admiral shares, but it says I am ineligible. I think it is because of the bolded part below.QuoteYou have no holdings eligible for Admiral™ Shares conversion. For a holding to be eligible for Admiral Shares conversion, it cannot have any account restrictions and must meet at least one of the following conditions:
$10,000 or more in an index fund that offers Admiral Shares.
$50,000 or more in an actively managed fund that offers Admiral Shares.
$100,000 or more in certain sector funds or tax-managed funds that offer Admiral Shares.
Note: Certain retirement accounts that offer special administrative services, such as SIMPLE IRAs, 403(b)(7), individual 401(k), individual Roth 401(k), qualified profit-sharing, and money purchase pension plans, may be ineligible for Admiral Shares.
I don't think it is because of the balance in the account. I would gain .10% on expense ratio, but it would be less diversified (but would be all stock, which it isn't right now after checking the fund).
Should I convert to save the .10% expense ratio? Is it worth converting anyway instead of being in a target retirement fund?
Thoughts?
I guess it depends on your total investment in the fund. Do you have $5000 or $50,000 in it, because that's a big difference. With it being a Vanguard fund, I can't imagine the expense ratio is more than 0.3-0.4% anyways. If your portfolio is properly allocated, you probably have some investments elsewhere that are 0.5-1.0% that you should spend your time finding alternatives for.
Post by: Kat Kid on January 23, 2017, 09:33:36 AM
The difference is .16% in the Target Retirement Fund to .06% in the 500 index. There are other options in between, but this was the move I was considering.
Post by: sys on January 23, 2017, 11:49:14 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on January 23, 2017, 12:14:15 PM
what else is the target fund? you have other funds, or this is supposed to handle all of your diversification for you?
It is supposed to be diversified. It has more bonds than I think I should, but I don't know.
I think this is all a marginal call, but the .10% seems worth doing it if I also get an all-stock fund.
My only downside is if the 500 index is diversified enough, it seems like it should be, but what do people think?
Post by: sys on January 23, 2017, 12:49:39 PM
jmo, tho.
Post by: sys on January 23, 2017, 12:53:14 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on January 23, 2017, 01:36:10 PM
oth, if your target fund holds stuff in other cap ranges and international, and you are talking about taking all of that and putting it into an sp500 fund, i would not do that.
Yeah, that is essentially the question. The bonds held in the retirement fund i think are pointless, but the fund is diversified. I am essentially trading more stocks/less fees for less diversification. I'm trying to figure out if it is worth it.
Post by: catastrophe on January 23, 2017, 01:52:00 PM
i would get out of the target fund. i don't understand why a young investor would own any bonds (at least any domestic sovereign bonds). if you are talking about only owning an sp500 index fund, i wouldn't do that. i think you should have some diversification (foreign equity, small/mid cap, real estate and/or infrastructure).
jmo, tho.
I have a target fund in an IRA with Vanguard. My understanding is that it switches allocations from stock heavy to more bonds the closer it gets to the retirement date.
My main reason for going with the target fund is because I have a Betterment account with tax loss harvesting (stocks drop low enough, it sells the stock and replaces it with a similar one so you can deduct the loss on taxes), and I want to completely avoid any grey area when it comes to buying/selling the same stock in a short amount of time (which the SEC frowns upon).
Post by: treysolid on January 23, 2017, 02:04:05 PM
oth, if your target fund holds stuff in other cap ranges and international, and you are talking about taking all of that and putting it into an sp500 fund, i would not do that.
Yeah, that is essentially the question. The bonds held in the retirement fund i think are pointless, but the fund is diversified. I am essentially trading more stocks/less fees for less diversification. I'm trying to figure out if it is worth it.
IMO, proper diversification is really important. not only regarding the right mix of international/emerging/domestic and real estate/commodities, but also large/mid/small cap as well as value vs. growth. One that people don't really look at is sector diversity. Your SP500 index fund (and most likely your target fund as well) is going to be pretty heavy on industrials, financials, healthcare, and technology, and really underrepresented in sectors like basic materials, energy, telecommunications, and utilities.
Post by: Kat Kid on January 23, 2017, 02:30:46 PM
Post by: sys on January 23, 2017, 02:35:45 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on January 23, 2017, 02:39:30 PM
why not put it into multiple funds yourself? may not get .1 of fee savings, but you should realize some savings.
It will definitely increase my fees and I would definitely be doing a worse job of managing it than just putting the funds in the target fund.
Post by: sys on January 23, 2017, 02:43:51 PM
why not put it into multiple funds yourself? may not get .1 of fee savings, but you should realize some savings.
It will definitely increase my fees and I would definitely be doing a worse job of managing it than just putting the funds in the target fund.
it would decrease your fees. you can get intl and small/mid cap funds for well under .16. real estate or the like might be a little over but the mix would be well under .16 you could prolly nix the real estate w. no real issues for that matter.
if you like the target fund, just move them into same %s as held by your target fund. no mgmt change.
Post by: sys on January 23, 2017, 03:06:23 PM
vxus - fee is .13
your blended fee should be like. .07-.09 depending on how much you put in intl. if you want to dribble a little into vnq and/or vpu it might raise your blended fee by like .005 or something.
if you want to go to the bogleheads forum there are thousands of people there just salivating to tell you all their fantastic ideas on how to passively manage your investments. it might be your style.
Post by: Kat Kid on January 23, 2017, 03:18:39 PM
vti - fee is .05
vxus - fee is .13
your blended fee should be like. .07-.09 depending on how much you put in intl. if you want to dribble a little into vnq and/or vpu it might raise your blended fee by like .005 or something.
if you want to go to the bogleheads forum there are thousands of people there just salivating to tell you all their fantastic ideas on how to passively manage your investments. it might be your style.
I am not opposed to doing what you said, but I want to know what steve dave is doing so that I can watch his hopes and dreams rise and fall with my own.
Post by: steve dave on January 23, 2017, 03:31:36 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on January 23, 2017, 03:50:22 PM
kat kid, are you the type of person that will consistently re-balance your portfolio without shooting your dick off?
I can split the amount I invest each month to allocate 50/50, but then how often will I need to re-balance based upon market performance?
(hopefully within this response you will have your answer)
vti - fee is .05
vxus - fee is .13
your blended fee should be like. .07-.09 depending on how much you put in intl. if you want to dribble a little into vnq and/or vpu it might raise your blended fee by like .005 or something.
if you want to go to the bogleheads forum there are thousands of people there just salivating to tell you all their fantastic ideas on how to passively manage your investments. it might be your style.
Ok, I see what you mean. I looked the allocations on 2050 and saw what you were thinking.
Post by: ben ji on January 23, 2017, 04:01:01 PM
Quote
Symbol Last Price PriceChange Today's Gain/Loss DollarPercent Total Gain/Loss Dollar Percent Current Value Quantity Cost Basis Per Share Total
HEMP $0.052 +$0.006 +$0.51 +12.52% -$174.32 -97.41% $4.63 90.000 $1.99 $178.95
I threw a couple hundred at it to humor him and now keep it in my portfolio and bring it up every time he recommends another stock.
Just waiting for the next pump!
(https://realtimebigchart.gtm.idmanagedsolutions.com/custom/fidelity-com/fidelity-research3.gifquote?symb=HEMP&time=5yr&freq=1dy&size=1)
Post by: tdaver on January 23, 2017, 04:03:17 PM
Not sure I would have done it if only saving 0.1
Post by: ShellShock on January 24, 2017, 05:44:14 PM
Post by: The Big Train on January 24, 2017, 06:54:38 PM
Post by: j-dub on January 25, 2017, 09:35:59 PM
to do so. He set her up with an American Funds Class A shares (ABALX). And he's still profiting from it to my understanding (12b-1 fee).. Should I switch her over to a target date fund Roth with vanguard? That's what I've got.. I'm fairly new to all this.. TIA.Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
Post by: Kat Kid on January 25, 2017, 10:10:06 PM
Hey guys, need some advice here. Mrs j-dub got a Roth before we were married. She went through a broker with Commerce bank here in kc. And paid a $575 fee
Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
Yes. The absolute best way to do this is to get all of the information about the account from commerce bank that you can and to then call vanguard and have their rep cancel your account for you and be on the phone as they transfer the assets. It is so great.
There won't be a lot of rough ridin' around because there are two reps on recorded lines.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: wetwillie on January 25, 2017, 10:27:20 PM
Post by: sys on January 25, 2017, 10:35:54 PM
I feel like charging someone $575 dollars to open a Roth IRA is on the same level as rape. I'm sure it's probably more common than I realize but that really angers me up.
i wish i knew where this guy lived because i'd like to follow him home and charge his wife and kids $575 each to open roths. i'd prolly hide in the closet and wait so i could see the look on his face when he found out.
Post by: kim carnes on January 25, 2017, 10:37:17 PM
Post by: sys on January 25, 2017, 10:38:18 PM
Post by: kim carnes on January 25, 2017, 10:38:44 PM
Post by: sys on January 25, 2017, 10:44:37 PM
Use etrade or fidelity or something
kim carnes, she was just raped.
Post by: j-dub on January 26, 2017, 08:35:47 AM
Hey guys, need some advice here. Mrs j-dub got a Roth before we were married. She went through a broker with Commerce bank here in kc. And paid a $575 fee
Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
Yes. The absolute best way to do this is to get all of the information about the account from commerce bank that you can and to then call vanguard and have their rep cancel your account for you and be on the phone as they transfer the assets. It is so great.
There won't be a lot of rough ridin' around because there are two reps on recorded lines.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks Kat Kid :Woot:
That sounds fantastic!
Post by: j-dub on January 26, 2017, 08:38:02 AM
btw, jdub, if your wife has a semi-decent dollar number in that account, she can look around and switch to somewhere that has an account opening bonus and recoup some of the money she's been raped out of.
from what i've seen, it would need to be at least 10k, right?
Post by: Cartierfor3 on January 26, 2017, 08:40:56 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on January 26, 2017, 08:58:37 AM
btw, jdub, if your wife has a semi-decent dollar number in that account, she can look around and switch to somewhere that has an account opening bonus and recoup some of the money she's been raped out of.
from what i've seen, it would need to be at least 10k, right?
You don't need $10,000 to open an IRA or rollover a 401k, but there might be some more limited options on the funds you can invest in. The target retirement funds you only need $1,000.
Post by: j-dub on January 26, 2017, 09:05:03 AM
i've got a roth 401k through my employer. i chose a vanguard target date fund (both my roth 401k and my roth ira are vanguard target date funds..) when i started at my current job. but i have the option of going with the vanguard s&p 500 admiral (VFIAX) if i want to. which one would you elites go with?
Post by: catastrophe on January 26, 2017, 09:34:46 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on January 26, 2017, 09:41:24 AM
now i've got a question for me..
i've got a roth 401k through my employer. i chose a vanguard target date fund (both my roth 401k and my roth ira are vanguard target date funds..) when i started at my current job. but i have the option of going with the vanguard s&p 500 admiral (VFIAX) if i want to. which one would you elites go with?
this was my exact question 2 pages back buddy, I would say stick with the target fund.
Post by: j-dub on January 26, 2017, 10:09:27 AM
now i've got a question for me..
i've got a roth 401k through my employer. i chose a vanguard target date fund (both my roth 401k and my roth ira are vanguard target date funds..) when i started at my current job. but i have the option of going with the vanguard s&p 500 admiral (VFIAX) if i want to. which one would you elites go with?
this was my exact question 2 pages back buddy, I would say stick with the target fund.
well, don't i feel like a horses ass.. as per steve dave's metric, i think i'll keep the target date fund and refrain from shooting my dick off
Post by: chum1 on February 02, 2017, 11:52:10 AM
Post by: EMAWican on February 02, 2017, 12:01:59 PM
Which stocks are REALLY going to benefit from loosening of regulations? Post thoughts below and let's get filthy rich together!
In my personal account I am 80% invested in UEC (uranium), TECK (zinc play), CLF (iron mining), and DNR (oil).
Post by: yoga-like_abana on February 02, 2017, 12:04:37 PM
DNRWhich stocks are REALLY going to benefit from loosening of regulations? Post thoughts below and let's get filthy rich together!
In my personal account I am 80% invested in UEC (uranium), TECK (zinc play), CLF (iron mining), and DNR (oil).
Post by: sys on February 02, 2017, 12:29:33 PM
Which stocks are REALLY going to benefit from loosening of regulations?
the ones that went up 20% on 11-9-2016.
Post by: The Big Train on February 02, 2017, 12:47:19 PM
Post by: chum1 on February 02, 2017, 12:52:02 PM
the ones that went up 20% on 11-9-2016.
This must be the best strategy. Private prisons did well.
Geo (GEO)
Corrections Corporation of America (CXW)
Post by: chum1 on February 09, 2017, 07:14:13 PM
Quote
A portfolio of so-called Trump trades has given back nearly a third of its gains since the election. And if President Donald Trump doesn't begin implementing his proposed corporate tax cuts and financial industry deregulation, some trades dependent on his proposals could suffer further.
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/09/big-cracks-are-developing-in-the-trump-portfolio.html
Post by: steve dave on February 09, 2017, 08:10:34 PM
Post by: catastrophe on February 09, 2017, 11:29:30 PM
Post by: EMAWican on February 10, 2017, 09:03:51 AM
Which stocks are REALLY going to benefit from loosening of regulations? Post thoughts below and let's get filthy rich together!
In my personal account I am 80% invested in UEC (uranium), TECK (zinc play), CLF (iron mining), and DNR (oil).
I feel like this is a good time to point this out TRUMP TRADES FTW :kstategrad:
Post by: chum1 on February 12, 2017, 04:55:57 PM
Quote
"What's going on today is complete insanity," said Stockman. "The market is apparently pricing in a huge Trump stimulus. But if you just look at the real world out there, the only thing that's going to happen is a fiscal bloodbath and a White House train wreck like never before in U.S. history."
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/12/trump-administration-is-complete-insanity--and-the-markets-are-in-a-fantasy-land-stockman.html
Post by: catastrophe on February 13, 2017, 11:25:22 AM
Anyone use comparable services with a lower account fee? Maybe I should just start buying Vanguard ETFs directly? Does Vanguard automatically roll over dividends and stuff like that?
Post by: Kat Kid on February 13, 2017, 11:39:10 AM
Just received notice my Betterment account fee is going from .15% to .25% :curse:
Anyone use comparable services with a lower account fee? Maybe I should just start buying Vanguard ETFs directly? Does Vanguard automatically roll over dividends and stuff like that?
There is a setting where you reinvest all dividends.
Post by: ChiComCat on February 13, 2017, 11:40:36 AM
Post by: catastrophe on February 13, 2017, 12:11:43 PM
The biggest downside I see to splitting and buying some funds direct from Vanguard is the risk of getting an out of balance portfolio, but I'm not sure how much damage I can really do if I basically just try to mimic what I have in my Betterment account and start buying like half/half to cut down on unnecessary fees.
Post by: sys on February 13, 2017, 12:56:23 PM
Post by: michigancat on February 13, 2017, 12:57:12 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on February 13, 2017, 12:57:49 PM
betterment manages my 401k. :frown:
lol
Post by: catastrophe on February 13, 2017, 01:15:18 PM
you can hold a vanguard fund in any discount brokerage account and almost none of them have account fees. betterment is raping you.
I have found the automated portfolio (with rebalancing) to be pretty helpful, and I love the projection tools you can play around with. So far the account has been paying for itself through the tax loss harvesting, although that is mostly because I got into investing at a crappy time (took the market like a year to actually get back to the same point).
Post by: sys on February 13, 2017, 01:29:18 PM
Post by: wetwillie on February 13, 2017, 01:37:01 PM
you can hold a vanguard fund in any discount brokerage account and almost none of them have account fees. betterment is raping you.
Your mercilessness is unbelievably consistent.
Post by: sys on February 13, 2017, 01:53:29 PM
Post by: kim carnes on February 15, 2017, 02:21:02 PM
Post by: catastrophe on February 15, 2017, 04:45:32 PM
Post by: sys on February 15, 2017, 05:37:38 PM
Post by: catastrophe on February 15, 2017, 08:30:27 PM
Post by: blu on February 24, 2017, 05:46:42 AM
Post by: catastrophe on February 24, 2017, 07:46:51 AM
And otherwise I think you generally have the right idea, but it's probably better to diversify among several ETFs even though they tend to be pretty diverse already.
Also, your horizon of when you plan to withdraw should probably determine which ETFs to invest in. Should not be too difficult to do some online research.
Post by: 8manpick on February 24, 2017, 07:57:12 AM
Is vanguard pretty much the way to go as far as setting up roths? My fiancé and I recently have come across a pretty large sum of moneySorry for your loss
Post by: ben ji on February 24, 2017, 09:20:57 AM
If you're talking about a Roth IRA, Vanguard is as good an option as any, but any retirement account is going to have some penalty if you withdraw from it early.
And otherwise I think you generally have the right idea, but it's probably better to diversify among several ETFs even though they tend to be pretty diverse already.
Also, your horizon of when you plan to withdraw should probably determine which ETFs to invest in. Should not be too difficult to do some online research.
You can withdraw your ROTH contributions at any time with no penalties. Not a good idea but there is no penalty (You cannot withdraw the earnings until 59.5 or something)
Post by: Emo EMAW on February 24, 2017, 09:31:28 AM
Post by: michigancat on February 24, 2017, 09:35:08 AM
Is vanguard pretty much the way to go as far as setting up roths? My fiancé and I recently have come across a pretty large sum of money and I'm looking to invest it but I have never actually invested in anything other than my company's 401k plan. After a Roth is set up and maxed is my line of thought to just pour everything else into an index fund dumb? I'm looking for something safe and that I can withdraw from a couple years down the road without penalties
That's probably pretty smart. After maxing the Roth you should consider maxing out your 401k depending on your income/student loan situation. If you're already maxing out your 401k take a nice vacation or something.
Post by: ben ji on February 24, 2017, 09:43:13 AM
Why is it not a good idea?
Because you can never replace the contributions you withdrew.
Post by: ben ji on February 24, 2017, 09:50:56 AM
Is vanguard pretty much the way to go as far as setting up roths? My fiancé and I recently have come across a pretty large sum of money and I'm looking to invest it but I have never actually invested in anything other than my company's 401k plan. After a Roth is set up and maxed is my line of thought to just pour everything else into an index fund dumb? I'm looking for something safe and that I can withdraw from a couple years down the road without penalties
That's probably pretty smart. After maxing the Roth you should consider maxing out your 401k depending on your income/student loan situation. If you're already maxing out your 401k take a nice vacation or something.
This. Before investing the money in a non tax advantaged account make sure you have used all your tax advantaged space (401k,IRA, HSA). Spend the cash on living expenses if you need to while you max out these accounts.
I would not invest any money that you plan on spending in the next 5 years (House down payment for example).
Post by: catastrophe on February 24, 2017, 10:24:16 AM
Post by: blu on February 24, 2017, 11:24:27 AM
Is vanguard pretty much the way to go as far as setting up roths? My fiancé and I recently have come across a pretty large sum of money and I'm looking to invest it but I have never actually invested in anything other than my company's 401k plan. After a Roth is set up and maxed is my line of thought to just pour everything else into an index fund dumb? I'm looking for something safe and that I can withdraw from a couple years down the road without penalties
That's probably pretty smart. After maxing the Roth you should consider maxing out your 401k depending on your income/student loan situation. If you're already maxing out your 401k take a nice vacation or something.
This. Before investing the money in a non tax advantaged account make sure you have used all your tax advantaged space (401k,IRA, HSA). Spend the cash on living expenses if you need to while you max out these accounts.
I would not invest any money that you plan on spending in the next 5 years (House down payment for example).
Right maybe I didn't explain well enough. I am matching the company contribution on my 401k, plan on paying student loans and maxing contribution to Roth IRA. I was intending to use the index fund or possibly a cd to safely store money for a home down payment in a couple years. I though just leaving it in a bank account would make me miss out on some return that I could potentially gain otherwise
Post by: sys on February 24, 2017, 11:28:16 AM
you can't put a large sum of money in a roth, so i'm not entirely sure i understand the connection (but like ben ji was saying, it's good to have a roth).
Post by: sys on February 24, 2017, 11:29:54 AM
if you only plan to invest in vanguard funds, it's arguably the best.
actually, i'm not sure of that. but it doesn't matter much.
Post by: blu on February 24, 2017, 11:35:53 AM
Is vanguard pretty much the way to go as far as setting up roths? My fiancé and I recently have come across a pretty large sum of moneySorry for your loss
Thanks but unnecessary :)
Post by: blu on February 24, 2017, 11:45:58 AM
pretty much any discount brokerage is the same as pretty much any other. vanguard is adequate. if you only plan to invest in vanguard funds, it's arguably the best.
you can't put a large sum of money in a roth, so i'm not entirely sure i understand the connection (but like ben ji was saying, it's good to have a roth).
As in since we will no longer be paying student loans we will be contributing the maximum allowed each month to the Roth. Sorry I'm typing this while working
Post by: ben ji on February 24, 2017, 11:46:30 AM
Is vanguard pretty much the way to go as far as setting up roths? My fiancé and I recently have come across a pretty large sum of money and I'm looking to invest it but I have never actually invested in anything other than my company's 401k plan. After a Roth is set up and maxed is my line of thought to just pour everything else into an index fund dumb? I'm looking for something safe and that I can withdraw from a couple years down the road without penalties
That's probably pretty smart. After maxing the Roth you should consider maxing out your 401k depending on your income/student loan situation. If you're already maxing out your 401k take a nice vacation or something.
This. Before investing the money in a non tax advantaged account make sure you have used all your tax advantaged space (401k,IRA, HSA). Spend the cash on living expenses if you need to while you max out these accounts.
I would not invest any money that you plan on spending in the next 5 years (House down payment for example).
Right maybe I didn't explain well enough. I am matching the company contribution on my 401k, plan on paying student loans and maxing contribution to Roth IRA. I was intending to use the index fund or possibly a cd to safely store money for a home down payment in a couple years. I though just leaving it in a bank account would make me miss out on some return that I could potentially gain otherwise
just leaving it in a bank account would make me miss out on some return that I could potentially gain otherwise
Markets can go down too. If you plan on spending the money in the next couple of years I would not invest it in the stock market unless you are willing to sell it for a loss when the time comes.
Without knowing anything other than what you posted here I would use the money in this order.
1. Payoff student loans
2. Put 5,500 in Roth
3. Set aside an amount you want to use as a down payment in a couple of years.
If you have anything left over after you do those 3 things go on a vacation and then live off the rest of it while you maximize your tax advantaged accounts.
Post by: ben ji on February 24, 2017, 11:50:46 AM
Another plus is they have actual physical locations which I have used exactly once when I rolled over an old 401k into my IRA. The old 401k mailed the check to me made out to Fidelity, instead of having to mail it to fidelity I just walked into the office and they deposited it.
Post by: blu on February 24, 2017, 11:59:05 AM
My Roth and regular IRA are through Fidelity. Website is easy to use and they have the same low cost funds as vanguard.
Another plus is they have actual physical locations which I have used exactly once when I rolled over an old 401k into my IRA. The old 401k mailed the check to me made out to Fidelity, instead of having to mail it to fidelity I just walked into the office and they deposited it.
My 401k is already through fidelity. Thanks I will look into that
Post by: catastrophe on February 24, 2017, 12:04:00 PM
On the other hand if you shelve it there is a 100% chance that the money will lose value by virtue of inflation alone.
If it really is a big sum of money, I say let it grow. But basically you are betting on whether there will be a market crash / recession in the next couple years. Even then, unless you think you would need that money either to survive or to buy a house at an optimal time (assuming job prospects make sense to take on that kind of debt) you can just ride it out.
Post by: sys on February 24, 2017, 12:30:23 PM
there's a lot of stuff i would still do in the current environment with money and a two year horizon, but you sound pretty risk adverse. the domestic market is pretty scary right now, i'd be careful.
Post by: hatingfrancisco on February 24, 2017, 12:46:46 PM
https://www.loyal3.com/ (https://www.loyal3.com/)
I just invested 10 bucks into WWE.
Post by: treysolid on February 24, 2017, 02:40:47 PM
Post by: Emo EMAW on February 24, 2017, 02:45:24 PM
Why is it not a good idea?
Because you can never replace the contributions you withdrew.
So? Sometimes there is a better place for your money.
Post by: ben ji on February 24, 2017, 03:05:52 PM
Why is it not a good idea?
Because you can never replace the contributions you withdrew.
So? Sometimes there is a better place for your money.
If you know of something better than having your money grow tax free and be withdrawn tax free go for it I guess.
Post by: catastrophe on February 24, 2017, 03:36:50 PM
Why is it not a good idea?
Because you can never replace the contributions you withdrew.
So? Sometimes there is a better place for your money.
If you know of something better than having your money grow tax free and be withdrawn tax free go for it I guess.
And if you are truly savy enough to wisely make those kinds of investment decisions, you should have enough spare money sitting around to make the $5.5k yearly contribution anyway.
Just look at any chart explaining compounding interest. You gotta let that snowball keep rolling.
Post by: wetwillie on March 02, 2017, 10:57:11 AM
Post by: The Big Train on March 17, 2017, 11:10:56 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on March 17, 2017, 12:58:31 PM
Why is it not a good idea?
Because you can never replace the contributions you withdrew.
So? Sometimes there is a better place for your money.
If you know of something better than having your money grow tax free and be withdrawn tax free go for it I guess.
hunting trip
Post by: chum1 on March 27, 2017, 01:37:32 PM
Post by: catastrophe on March 27, 2017, 03:00:27 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170327/9d8548492578418a2e7d980a89763ddd.jpg)
Post by: ben ji on April 06, 2017, 10:26:07 PM
1. I bought some contacts through costco with my HSA card, they come with a $35 rebate. So I get $35 tax/SS/Medicare free?
2. Are there other everyday health related items that offer a rebate on the reg?
3. Should I start a contact company that sells contacts for $3,000 and offers a $2,800 rebate?
Post by: catastrophe on April 06, 2017, 10:34:10 PM
Post by: The Big Train on April 28, 2017, 03:05:06 PM
https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/28/bitcoin-and-ether-prices-hit-all-time-high/
Post by: The Big Train on April 28, 2017, 03:06:45 PM
Thanks but no thanks TBT, not interested in digital currency.
:lol:
Post by: ben ji on April 30, 2017, 07:45:10 PM
:cool:
https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/28/bitcoin-and-ether-prices-hit-all-time-high/
Grats TBT. I hope you make tons of money but I know absolutely nothing about Cryptocurrency(Correct term?) so I will stay out.
The last time I invested in something I knew absolutely nothing about was when my Dad recommended I buy HEMP. Weed was going to be legal in CO/WA etc and this company was poised to take advantage, hence its huge rise! It was a penny stock that had shot up to $2, I bought in at $1.98. Currently trades at about $.02 a share. I did some more research and yeah....total scam. Only lost a couple hundred but I keep it in my portfolio for 3 reasons.
1. My Shares are worth like $2
2. To remind me not to be an idot
3. Maybe they start the pump up again and I can break even :pray: :pray: ????
Post by: The Big Train on May 03, 2017, 08:17:58 PM
:cool:
https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/28/bitcoin-and-ether-prices-hit-all-time-high/
It's up another $200 since I posted this :lol:
Post by: The Big Train on May 03, 2017, 08:36:26 PM
Post by: The Big Train on May 03, 2017, 08:42:16 PM
Post by: The Big Train on May 03, 2017, 09:19:51 PM
Also Litecoin is also a hot buy right now. I don't know much about it but I just bought some :excited:
After doing some more research I already have quadrupled my investment. Blockchain tech in general is great guys and it's only going to get better over time.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on May 04, 2017, 10:36:03 AM
how in the balls does someone with no prior knowledge go about buying litecoin and selling litecoin?Also Litecoin is also a hot buy right now. I don't know much about it but I just bought some :excited:
After doing some more research I already have quadrupled my investment. Blockchain tech in general is great guys and it's only going to get better over time.
Post by: The Big Train on May 04, 2017, 11:00:57 AM
how in the balls does someone with no prior knowledge go about buying litecoin and selling litecoin?Also Litecoin is also a hot buy right now. I don't know much about it but I just bought some :excited:
After doing some more research I already have quadrupled my investment. Blockchain tech in general is great guys and it's only going to get better over time.
Easiest way is find a cryptocurrency exchange, create an account, add some payment options and away you go. I use CoinBase and really like it. They have a great app and their online portal is good too.
You can buy with a linked checking account or a credit card. The credit card is obviously the best way to go because rewards, but also it allows instant buy. A checking account works but you have like a 4 day waiting period because ACH processing is stupid as crap.
You can set up pricing alerts really easily on CoinBase too for keeping an eye on the market.
Post by: The Big Train on May 04, 2017, 11:09:22 AM
Pro tip: Bitcoin is going crazy because the community(engineers) don't know where to go from here. They are talking about a hard fork which would make two different "kinds" of Bitcoin. That volatility won't last forever so it's really risky right now if you are just getting started down the BTC path. At least until we know a more concrete future for it.
I mean look at this crap :lol:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170504/69cc183458cb31b8c2f2eec5d3958e5b.png)
Post by: yoga-like_abana on May 18, 2017, 09:39:34 AM
Post by: The Big Train on May 18, 2017, 09:57:18 AM
Post by: kim carnes on May 18, 2017, 11:22:40 AM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on May 18, 2017, 11:24:34 AM
Post by: The Big Train on May 19, 2017, 10:49:28 AM
Holy crap guys Ethereum is up $26 since last week which is a 136% increase. It's also up by $33 since last month which is a 275% increase. :Wha:
Up another $30 since Wednesday and now $115 per ETC. I bought into this when it was selling in the $11-15 range
Post by: Emo EMAW on May 19, 2017, 10:51:19 AM
Make a separate thread for bitcoin
What the eff is a bitcoin?
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=22920&share_tid=27363&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgoemaw%2Ecom%2Fforum%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D27363&share_type=t
Post by: yoga-like_abana on May 19, 2017, 11:08:31 AM
e-money basicallyMake a separate thread for bitcoin
What the eff is a bitcoin?
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=22920&share_tid=27363&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgoemaw%2Ecom%2Fforum%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D27363&share_type=t
Post by: mocat on May 19, 2017, 11:12:49 AM
Make a separate thread for bitcoin
What the eff is a bitcoin?
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=22920&share_tid=27363&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgoemaw%2Ecom%2Fforum%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D27363&share_type=t
oh man remember Rams?
Post by: star seed 7 on May 19, 2017, 11:27:04 AM
Post by: The Big Train on May 19, 2017, 11:52:56 AM
I know a guy that is implementing eth as a payment option in Houston local business, he's doing very well tbt
That's pretty cool, I'd be interested how he's doing that. ETH was just a byproduct of the Ethereum network and was never projected to grow this much. I got lucky with this one.
Post by: The Big Train on May 21, 2017, 10:39:56 AM
https://techcrunch.com/2017/05/20/btc2k/
Post by: The Big Train on May 24, 2017, 12:30:02 PM
tanked
:lol:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/3ffd52bd679823ad7ef7768c140e47ca.png)
Post by: The Big Train on May 24, 2017, 12:32:29 PM
Holy crap guys Ethereum is up $26 since last week which is a 136% increase. It's also up by $33 since last month which is a 275% increase. :Wha:
Up another $30 since Wednesday and now $115 per ETC. I bought into this when it was selling in the $11-15 range
Currently selling in the mid $190 range. Getting lucky is a pretty big understatement for the original projections on ETC.
Post by: The Big Train on May 25, 2017, 03:23:39 PM
Post by: puniraptor on May 25, 2017, 08:07:44 PM
Post by: The Big Train on May 25, 2017, 09:00:05 PM
is there room in the marketplace for more than 1 cryptocurrency long term or is this s vhs vs Betamax thing
There is absolutely more room than just having 1. For the simple fact that Bitcoin doesn't seem to be going anywhere and Ether being the smart contract currency of the Ethereum network. Ripple is also jumped into the number 2 spot and for the first time Bitcoin doesn't have at least 50% of the market.
Post by: The Big Train on May 25, 2017, 11:22:12 PM
Post by: j rake on May 26, 2017, 08:59:33 PM
Post by: steve dave on May 26, 2017, 09:00:20 PM
Post by: j rake on May 26, 2017, 09:02:34 PM
j rake, how are you?
good, thanks for asking! have been researching the crap out of ripple lately and remembered there was an investing thread here, so decided to return to see if there was any discussion about cryptocurrency. forgot this place existed somehow, maybe because ksu athletics is just super boring now.
Post by: steve dave on May 26, 2017, 09:06:07 PM
j rake, how are you?
good, thanks for asking! have been researching the crap out of ripple lately and remembered there was an investing thread here, so decided to return to see if there was any discussion about cryptocurrency. forgot this place existed somehow, maybe because ksu athletics is just super boring now.
gE has permanent residence in your dome. that makes me feel very good. we should get together and talk bad about our kansas state athletics again sometime.
Post by: j rake on May 26, 2017, 09:08:32 PM
j rake, how are you?
good, thanks for asking! have been researching the crap out of ripple lately and remembered there was an investing thread here, so decided to return to see if there was any discussion about cryptocurrency. forgot this place existed somehow, maybe because ksu athletics is just super boring now.
gE has permanent residence in your dome. that makes me feel very good. we should get together and talk bad about our kansas state athletics again sometime.
i'm in long beach area now, have been searching long and hard for fellow k-state fans. any out here? a car at the local grocery store had a powercat decal on it a few months back, so i took my sweet ol time waiting for this k-state alum to return to their vehicle in hopes of striking up conversation. alas, after five minutes, i gave up and drove off. the quest continues...
Post by: steve dave on May 26, 2017, 09:13:35 PM
j rake, how are you?
good, thanks for asking! have been researching the crap out of ripple lately and remembered there was an investing thread here, so decided to return to see if there was any discussion about cryptocurrency. forgot this place existed somehow, maybe because ksu athletics is just super boring now.
gE has permanent residence in your dome. that makes me feel very good. we should get together and talk bad about our kansas state athletics again sometime.
i'm in long beach area now, have been searching long and hard for fellow k-state fans. any out here? a car at the local grocery store had a powercat decal on it a few months back, so i took my sweet ol time waiting for this k-state alum to return to their vehicle in hopes of striking up conversation. alas, after five minutes, i gave up and drove off. the quest continues...
someday you'll run across sys and then we'll get some fireworks
Post by: kim carnes on May 26, 2017, 10:51:42 PM
Post by: The Big Train on May 27, 2017, 12:46:16 AM
Post by: The Big Train on May 27, 2017, 06:43:44 AM
Post by: chum1 on May 27, 2017, 09:17:22 AM
Post by: j rake on May 27, 2017, 02:54:26 PM
Amazing. I thought about buying a bitcoin 3-4 years ago for like $450, but didn't. If it does down to $1500, I'll consider it again.
you and the reported 40,000 other donkeys who registered for coinbase accounts yesterday.
Post by: sys on May 27, 2017, 03:11:52 PM
Post by: The Big Train on June 03, 2017, 03:04:34 PM
Post by: sys on June 04, 2017, 12:03:13 AM
Post by: ben ji on June 08, 2017, 03:24:03 PM
Quote
Bob Stoops Contract
College: Oklahoma Conference: Big 12
Base compensation
2014 guaranteed money: $5,250,000
Contract guaranteed money $49,000,000
contract length: 9 years
start date: Jan. 1, 2012
amended: June 25, 2014
end date: Dec. 31, 2020
2014 base salary: $325,000
Incentives
contractual raises:
additional guaranteed annual compensation: For PR/equipment/recruiting/public speaking
2012: $3,325,000
2013: $3,525,000
2014: $4,025,000
2015: $4,375,000
2016-2020: $150,000 raise each year
retention bonus: $700,000 every June 1 he remains head coach
$200,000 deposited in retirement account on Jan. 1, 2012 and on Jan. 1, 2014 if he's still head coach
conference regular season:
conference championship: $66,000 if co-champs but not automatic qualifier
$88,000 if outright champs
non bcs bowl bid: $71,500
non bcs bowl win:
bcs bowl appearance: $110,000
bcs bowl win:
college football playoff:
national championship bid: $165,000
national championship: $275,000
conference coach of the year: $33,000
national coach of the year: $66,000
national poll: Final top 20: $55,000
Top 10: $82,500
miscellaneous team performance based incentives:
academic or off field incentives: grad rate 65% or higher: $44,000
75% or higher: $55,000
85% or higher: $66,000
100%: $110,000
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 08, 2017, 03:30:54 PM
Since I'm out of the crypto game for a bit I've started looking into other investing things. Has or does anyone use SeekingAlpha? I love the content and they have a really good app too.thoughts on z cash.. I did finally pull the trigger on some litecoin the other day
Post by: sys on June 08, 2017, 05:14:26 PM
What kind of "Retirement Account" can you drop $200,000 into at 1 time?
a non tax-advantaged account.
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 08, 2017, 08:25:36 PM
Post by: The Big Train on June 11, 2017, 08:33:23 PM
Since I'm out of the crypto game for a bit I've started looking into other investing things. Has or does anyone use SeekingAlpha? I love the content and they have a really good app too.thoughts on z cash.. I did finally pull the trigger on some litecoin the other day
It's pretty ambiguous if you don't read the release notes. An open ledger is kind of what blockchain is built on, but I could see where a closed open blockchain could be beneficial. Very interesting for sure, I'll do more research.
On litecoin, you bought most likely at a good time. HOWEVER the market flows and follows Bitcoin WAY more than it should. Bitcoin is on the up again but there are some projections that it will tumble like it did in 2013. Idk if it will actually happen but be on the lookout.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170612/4297961699b98437053841c74f81aebf.png)
Post by: The Big Train on June 12, 2017, 12:33:29 PM
Post by: catastrophe on June 12, 2017, 12:59:07 PM
What kind of "Retirement Account" can you drop $200,000 into at 1 time?
a non tax-advantaged account.
The easy explanation is that they're using the term "retirement account" loosely. However, without doing any research whatsoever, I'll bet there are different rules for state institutions / non-profits that permit for different tax-advantaged accounts that most of us normies don't have access to.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 12, 2017, 02:02:30 PM
Welp that was quick :lol:sheesh.. :horrorsurprise: it's so damn volatile.. eth still climbing tho
Post by: The Big Train on June 13, 2017, 10:16:53 PM
Welp that was quick :lol:sheesh.. :horrorsurprise: it's so damn volatile.. eth still climbing tho
AND JUST LIKE THAT EVERYONE IS MAKING MONEY AGAIN :cool:
Post by: The Big Train on June 15, 2017, 01:27:41 PM
Post by: wetwillie on June 15, 2017, 01:38:00 PM
Post by: Phil Titola on June 15, 2017, 05:43:01 PM
Post by: The Big Train on June 15, 2017, 06:37:01 PM
What's the formula for trading this digital currency TBT? 10 day moving averages and such?
There's a lot of factors actually. As more and more governments remove restrictions and decide how to recognize Bitcoin it can affect the market. The mempool size is also another factor because of the high rough ridin' transaction fees when I'm buying/selling.
World events also affect it, and for awhile every time Trump was negatively in the news it would make Bitcoin prices go up. There's also trends you have to look for but it's not just these that dictate how I buy and sell them.
Litecoin just basically follows the same rise and fall of Bitcoin right now, even though the technology behind it is way more scalable. Bitcoin is rapidly approaching some major decisions on whether this hard fork is going to happen or not. Ethereum has other forces impacting it than Bitcoin does. I could create a cryptocurrency right now on the Ethereum network, Ether is just the Ethereum currency for its smart contracts.
Post by: The Big Train on June 15, 2017, 06:48:58 PM
https://cryptowat.ch/
Post by: wetwillie on June 15, 2017, 08:57:35 PM
Post by: The Big Train on June 16, 2017, 11:27:36 PM
Post by: The Big Train on June 16, 2017, 11:33:06 PM
eff me should have bought in again on the last downswing.
Post by: The Big Train on June 17, 2017, 12:20:56 PM
Welp that was quick :lol:sheesh.. :horrorsurprise: it's so damn volatile.. eth still climbing tho
AND JUST LIKE THAT EVERYONE IS MAKING LOTS AND LOTS MONEY AGAIN :cool:
Post by: The Big Train on June 17, 2017, 12:27:48 PM
https://themerkle.com/litecoins-chickun-awakens-as-ltc-price-heads-toward-us40/
Post by: SdK on June 17, 2017, 12:37:44 PM
Post by: The Big Train on June 18, 2017, 12:06:55 PM
Post by: The Big Train on June 18, 2017, 10:28:57 PM
Do not be surprised to see this sweet little ray of sunshine flirt with the $100 mark in the next 2 weeks.
https://cryptowat.ch/coinbase/ltcusd/15m
Post by: The Big Train on June 18, 2017, 10:48:06 PM
https://twitter.com/SatoshiLite/status/876471823419883520
There has also been a reported hack of SegWit, which Charlie has already said isn't that big of deal at this point. The cost/reward is too high. Guys, I can not over emphasize how exciting this whole time has been in the investing world. Wow!
Post by: The Big Train on June 18, 2017, 10:54:16 PM
I'm late to this thread but in on Ethereum prob a little too late but not trying to just get a quick hit....waiting for Kraken to validate me to get in on ripple.
ACTUALLY. I don't think, based on my research today, that getting in on Ether is a bad play. I will however leave the decision up to you.
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 19, 2017, 07:15:59 AM
Post by: The Big Train on June 19, 2017, 07:38:38 AM
TBT do you watch NVDA?
I haven't been following it that closely. I know they have grown a lot and their stock is one of the BITB right now. Their CEO had an interview that I watched a few weeks ago. It seems like a very good pick.
Post by: The Big Train on June 19, 2017, 09:09:44 AM
https://twitter.com/bitstamp/status/876803773296988162
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 19, 2017, 09:21:22 AM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 19, 2017, 09:22:02 AM
Post by: The Big Train on June 19, 2017, 09:26:46 AM
Post by: The Big Train on June 19, 2017, 09:28:51 AM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 19, 2017, 09:33:22 AM
that's exactly when I bought it
Post by: Phil Titola on June 19, 2017, 09:36:25 AM
Post by: The Big Train on June 19, 2017, 09:38:16 AM
:runaway:
that's exactly when I bought it
Isn't this exciting tho?! :excited:
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 19, 2017, 09:40:34 AM
ohhh yeah. I remember randomly checking it this weekend and seeing it was up to around $45 or so and was wondering wth was going on:runaway:
that's exactly when I bought it
Isn't this exciting tho?! :excited:
Post by: DQ12 on June 19, 2017, 09:42:53 AM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 19, 2017, 09:45:27 AM
Post by: The Big Train on June 19, 2017, 09:51:13 AM
out of curiosity, can someone refresh me on, mechanically, how you trade this stuff?
It's built using blockchain technology, which is essentially a decentralized database. Miners(powerful computers) mine and confirm each block of transactions. The database is decentralized so there's a copy on everyone computer that's a part of the blockchain network. All computers agree on the transaction that happened, which confirms the trade, and the ledger is updated and immutable.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 19, 2017, 09:52:46 AM
Post by: DQ12 on June 19, 2017, 10:00:21 AM
Post by: Phil Titola on June 19, 2017, 11:07:32 AM
Post by: The Big Train on June 19, 2017, 11:41:51 AM
Post by: Phil Titola on June 19, 2017, 12:32:40 PM
If it goes down to $40 I would buy moreStat away at current price?
Post by: The Big Train on June 19, 2017, 12:39:19 PM
If it goes down to $40 I would buy moreStat away at current price?
I bought several times the past 2 days in the $41-$45 range. I can't buy anymore because of their weekly limits or I would buy more now at $47. I don't think it will go back down to $40 and if it does I should be able to buy again because it won't be for awhile.
It's holding in the high $40's right now and once it eclipses the $50 mark it could skyrocket. I'm not buying to sell quickly tho. The closer we get to August 1st the higher it will probably go.
Post by: The Big Train on June 19, 2017, 12:47:59 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 19, 2017, 02:32:50 PM
what happens then?!If it goes down to $40 I would buy moreStat away at current price?
I bought several times the past 2 days in the $41-$45 range. I can't buy anymore because of their weekly limits or I would buy more now at $47. I don't think it will go back down to $40 and if it does I should be able to buy again because it won't be for awhile.
It's holding in the high $40's right now and once it eclipses the $50 mark it could skyrocket. I'm not buying to sell quickly tho. The closer we get to August 1st the higher it will probably go.
Post by: The Big Train on June 19, 2017, 02:35:47 PM
what happens then?!If it goes down to $40 I would buy moreStat away at current price?
I bought several times the past 2 days in the $41-$45 range. I can't buy anymore because of their weekly limits or I would buy more now at $47. I don't think it will go back down to $40 and if it does I should be able to buy again because it won't be for awhile.
It's holding in the high $40's right now and once it eclipses the $50 mark it could skyrocket. I'm not buying to sell quickly tho. The closer we get to August 1st the higher it will probably go.
Judgment day for Bitcoin.
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4081991-august-1st-end-bitcoin
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 19, 2017, 02:43:06 PM
Post by: The Big Train on June 19, 2017, 02:46:44 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 19, 2017, 02:50:37 PM
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 19, 2017, 03:01:52 PM
Post by: The Big Train on June 19, 2017, 03:08:02 PM
What's the weekly limit amount?
Depends how much you buy and sell and how many CC's you have linked. Buying with a CC is the only way to instant buy. The linked bank account limits are usually higher when you first start but it takes 4-5 days to get your transaction approved, at the THEN exchange rate.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 19, 2017, 03:13:42 PM
Post by: The Big Train on June 19, 2017, 03:25:24 PM
I have yet to sell any tbt. any hang ups with your bank or anything to know ahead of time?
No hangups with my bank. The only thing is I've gotten hit with some international transaction fees when I sold off my LiteCoin last time, they weren't much tho.
I also just looked and you CAN buy at the current exchange rate with your linked bank account. When I first started doing this I thought that's how they did it, since I always just use a CC.
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 19, 2017, 03:36:02 PM
Post by: The Big Train on June 19, 2017, 03:42:17 PM
What's the weekly limit amount?
Again, it varies. My bank account one is 5K.
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 19, 2017, 04:22:00 PM
Post by: The Big Train on June 19, 2017, 06:13:47 PM
Post by: Phil Titola on June 19, 2017, 10:28:39 PM
Post by: Phil Titola on June 19, 2017, 11:19:12 PM
Post by: The Big Train on June 20, 2017, 07:43:12 AM
Sooo...in new to investing fashion, may have sent some ETH to am ETC wallet address. Can't figure out how to fix that....tbt?
Are you using Poloniex for ETH or just Ripple? Did it already subtract from your ETH wallet? If the transaction went through idk what else you could do.
Edit: just reread this and idk if you can send between the two Ethereum wallets...can you?
Post by: The Big Train on June 20, 2017, 07:49:10 AM
Post by: Phil Titola on June 20, 2017, 08:29:15 AM
Seems like a common problem as poloniex has this specific thing in their ticketing request system. I read last night that they can reverse this but guess I'll wait and see.
Glad I didn't send all my coins like I was originally going to do. Could be a not cheap lesson I'm about to learn.
Post by: The Big Train on June 20, 2017, 02:16:03 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 21, 2017, 11:50:15 AM
Post by: The Big Train on June 21, 2017, 01:09:27 PM
Post by: catastrophe on June 21, 2017, 01:24:32 PM
So my company is now allowing up to $54k in after-tax contributions to 401(k)s. As far as I can tell, these after-tax contributions are treated almost exactly like any other after-tax investment you would make, except any dividends or other gains are tax-deferred. Seems like a no-brainer to max out this kind of an account before using any other investment accounts unless you plan on being in a higher tax bracket when you start cashing out, which seems counter-intuitive.
So, in my mind, extra dollars should be invested thusly:
1. 401(k) pre-tax - Up to $18,000 / year
1a. HSA pre-tax - Max is like $5,000 or something?
2. IRA / Roth IRA - Up to $5,500 / year
3. 401(k) after-tax - Up to $54,000 / year
4. Other after-tax investment accounts - No limit
Am I missing something?
Update: just read that if you leave your job you can roll over any after-tax 401(k) contributions into a Roth IRA, which is even better for retirement income. Pretty sweet deal.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 21, 2017, 02:12:46 PM
Post by: wetwillie on June 21, 2017, 02:22:15 PM
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 21, 2017, 03:14:30 PM
Post by: ben ji on June 21, 2017, 03:47:09 PM
WARNING: NON BIT CURRENCY POST
So my company is now allowing up to $54k in after-tax contributions to 401(k)s. As far as I can tell, these after-tax contributions are treated almost exactly like any other after-tax investment you would make, except any dividends or other gains are tax-deferred. Seems like a no-brainer to max out this kind of an account before using any other investment accounts unless you plan on being in a higher tax bracket when you start cashing out, which seems counter-intuitive.
So, in my mind, extra dollars should be invested thusly:
1. 401(k) pre-tax - Up to $18,000 / year
1a. HSA pre-tax - Max is like $5,000 or something?
2. IRA / Roth IRA - Up to $5,500 / year
3. 401(k) after-tax - Up to $54,000 / year
4. Other after-tax investment accounts - No limit
Am I missing something?
Update: just read that if you leave your job you can roll over any after-tax 401(k) contributions into a Roth IRA, which is even better for retirement income. Pretty sweet deal.
Finally, a real investing post!
You are correct in your order of investments and also in your update. Its a good way to sock away even more money if you are a K-State grad and just rolling in dough.
Post by: ben ji on June 21, 2017, 03:51:11 PM
Why is the HSA hot ass again?
Tax free (And SS/Medicare if its deducted from paycheck) free going in. Tax free going out when you spend it on Medical expenses. Plus you can invest the money you do not need!
Worst case scenario you are super healthy and have a ton of money piled up in there when you retire and you can just turn it into a Traditional IRA. I also think you can can keep it in a HSA to use for medical expenses when your an old person (no taxes on that money) you just can't contribute anymore.
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 21, 2017, 04:14:25 PM
Post by: Phil Titola on June 21, 2017, 04:35:10 PM
Post by: ben ji on June 21, 2017, 04:36:05 PM
I can't invest my HSA ...only get boring 1% interest
Tell your HR to find a real HSA provider.
Post by: Phil Titola on June 21, 2017, 04:38:18 PM
Post by: The Big Train on June 21, 2017, 04:40:40 PM
http://www.coindesk.com/13-ethereum-ether-prices-plunge-2500-gdax-exchange-flash-crash/
Post by: The Big Train on June 22, 2017, 07:25:20 AM
http://litecoin.mit.edu
https://twitter.com/satoshilite/status/877746201004621825
Post by: Mikeyis4dcats on June 22, 2017, 09:04:42 AM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/ethereum-flash-crashes-to-dollar13-before-bouncing-back-to-dollar296/ar-BBD0gWR
Post by: The Big Train on June 22, 2017, 10:19:46 AM
https://www.tradingview.com/chart/LTCBTC/4Vx8QAZd-Mysterious-MIT-Litecoin-Project-Coblee-is-Satoshi-Nakamoto/
Post by: catastrophe on June 22, 2017, 12:45:15 PM
I can't invest my HSA ...only get boring 1% interest
Are you sure it's not an option? I don't think I could invest with mine until I hit some minimum threshold like $4-5k.
Post by: Phil Titola on June 22, 2017, 12:46:09 PM
Yeah I thought that maybe it...but not the case.I can't invest my HSA ...only get boring 1% interest
Are you sure it's not an option? I don't think I could invest with mine until I hit some minimum threshold like $4-5k.
Post by: The Big Train on June 22, 2017, 02:16:24 PM
I can't invest my HSA ...only get boring 1% interest
Are you sure it's not an option? I don't think I could invest with mine until I hit some minimum threshold like $4-5k.
That seems really high, ours only has a threshold of $1000 before we can start investing it.
Post by: catastrophe on June 22, 2017, 06:42:05 PM
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 22, 2017, 09:33:42 PM
Post by: ben ji on June 22, 2017, 10:50:18 PM
So like with HSA you pick funds and stuff like 401k? Do any allow stocks or ETF's?
Each plan is different but most just allow Mutual Fund or ETF purchases, not individual stock. HSA's are relatively new (2003) and not very widespread at this time so there is not a ton of competition between HSA administers. I would imagine that as HSA's become more popular and as common as IRA's the fund selection and user interfaces will look more like your 401k/IRA.
Post by: The Big Train on June 22, 2017, 11:04:31 PM
So like with HSA you pick funds and stuff like 401k? Do any allow stocks or ETF's?
Each plan is different but most just allow Mutual Fund or ETF purchases, not individual stock. HSA's are relatively new (2003) and not very widespread at this time so there is not a ton of competition between HSA administers. I would imagine that as HSA's become more popular and as common as IRA's the fund selection and user interfaces will look more like your 401k/IRA.
Cryptocurrencies have only even been hypothesized since 2009, and only been a real thing since 2011. I arrive at the conclusion that they have also been not very widespread. Just a little side jab at ben ji for poking fun at a new investing opportunity, while continuing to offer advice for older ways of investing.
Post by: The Big Train on June 24, 2017, 09:38:21 AM
Post by: The Big Train on June 24, 2017, 11:47:35 PM
I posted that instabuy gif this morning, and I bought a crap ton more LiteCoin today. I'm not advocating or endorsing any kind of movement but I've been through this before and don't want just WW to benefit if I only sent a DM to him. Like I said a week ago to PT, I don't think we are going to hit $40, and if we do I'll be buying it up like I did today. My projections stay the same, I'm just posting more about my movements than I have in the past. If I wouldn't have hit so big on the last round on ETH I probably wouldn't be in on LiteCoin as hard as I am. When you are playing with house money tho....all cards are on the table, per se.
:kstategrad: :kstategrad: :kstategrad:
Post by: The Big Train on June 25, 2017, 12:14:15 AM
https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/24/coinbase-is-reimbursing-losses-caused-by-the-ethereum-flash-crash/
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 25, 2017, 11:57:58 AM
Post by: The Big Train on June 25, 2017, 12:09:28 PM
TBT did you even dig into the NVDA thing I posted? That might help you with finding correlation.
Are you trying to get at that NVDA is growing because of miners buying their GPU's? AMD is also growing because their chips are best for mining ETH. I haven't heard anything from those companies pulling back or anything.
Post by: The Big Train on June 25, 2017, 03:01:19 PM
Post by: mocat on June 25, 2017, 03:27:53 PM
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 25, 2017, 03:28:24 PM
TBT did you even dig into the NVDA thing I posted? That might help you with finding correlation.
Are you trying to get at that NVDA is growing because of miners buying their GPU's? AMD is also growing because their chips are best for mining ETH. I haven't heard anything from those companies pulling back or anything.
I don't know, just saw some analyst types talking about it. It doesn't interest me so I didn't dig any deeper.
Post by: star seed 7 on June 25, 2017, 03:39:41 PM
This thread desperately needs modding
Like a water cooler or a cool case stencil?
Post by: The Big Train on June 25, 2017, 09:26:42 PM
This thread desperately needs modding
Why? I'm legit telling when to buy and sell and have a proven record of being right. I know simple math is hard for you but I'll keep wiping your tears away with my Benjamin's as long as I'm in this cryptogame.
Post by: Phil Titola on June 25, 2017, 09:32:03 PM
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 25, 2017, 09:35:56 PM
This thread desperately needs modding
Why? I'm legit telling when to buy and sell and have a proven record of being right. I know simple math is hard for you but I'll keep wiping your tears away with my Benjamin's as long as I'm in this cryptogame.
It's because you're shitting up this thread with this bullshit. It should go in the bitcoin or some other thread.
Post by: The Big Train on June 25, 2017, 09:39:08 PM
This thread desperately needs modding
Why? I'm legit telling when to buy and sell and have a proven record of being right. I know simple math is hard for you but I'll keep wiping your tears away with my Benjamin's as long as I'm in this cryptogame.
It's because you're shitting up this thread with this bullshit. It should go in the bitcoin or some other thread.
Bullshit is making 5 figures in profit in less than 3 months, got it. :thumbs:
Post by: The Big Train on June 25, 2017, 10:02:40 PM
Post by: Phil Titola on June 26, 2017, 08:30:35 AM
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 26, 2017, 08:30:59 AM
This thread desperately needs modding
Why? I'm legit telling when to buy and sell and have a proven record of being right. I know simple math is hard for you but I'll keep wiping your tears away with my Benjamin's as long as I'm in this cryptogame.
It's because you're shitting up this thread with this bullshit. It should go in the bitcoin or some other thread.
Bullshit is making 5 figures in profit in less than 3 months, got it. :thumbs:
This is the New to Investing Thread. Not the Let's Try Risky crap thread. I don't think anyone has any problem with the content, it's the putting of the content in this thread. Unless you're advocating that someone new to investing should forgo the typical 401k etc paradigm and do this instead, it doesn't go here.
Post by: The Big Train on June 26, 2017, 08:35:25 AM
This thread desperately needs modding
Why? I'm legit telling when to buy and sell and have a proven record of being right. I know simple math is hard for you but I'll keep wiping your tears away with my Benjamin's as long as I'm in this cryptogame.
It's because you're shitting up this thread with this bullshit. It should go in the bitcoin or some other thread.
Bullshit is making 5 figures in profit in less than 3 months, got it. :thumbs:
This is the New to Investing Thread. Not the Let's Try Risky crap thread. I don't think anyone has any problem with the content, it's the putting of the content in this thread. Unless you're advocating that someone new to investing should forgo the typical 401k etc paradigm and do this instead, it doesn't go here.
I understood your point the first time. :thumbs:
Post by: steve dave on June 26, 2017, 10:39:19 AM
It's apparent to me it's a trigger for people that don't understand the technology nor have the mental capacity to grasp its impact on the world.
this is an incred quote
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 26, 2017, 10:48:56 AM
Post by: DQ12 on June 26, 2017, 01:33:53 PM
Post by: The Big Train on June 26, 2017, 02:12:29 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 26, 2017, 02:18:33 PM
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 26, 2017, 03:02:16 PM
I'll go ahead tho and just abstain from anything further about this topic ITT. It's apparent to me it's a trigger for people that don't understand the technology nor have the mental capacity to grasp its impact on the world. It was fun while it lasted guys!
Post by: catastrophe on June 26, 2017, 03:37:10 PM
Post by: The Big Train on June 26, 2017, 03:43:18 PM
I'm not buying to sell quickly tho.
Post by: mocat on June 26, 2017, 03:50:03 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 26, 2017, 04:17:14 PM
Post by: mocat on June 26, 2017, 04:22:15 PM
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 26, 2017, 04:26:59 PM
I'm not buying to sell quickly tho.
Then profits you have not taken. :nono:
Post by: The Big Train on June 26, 2017, 04:29:38 PM
I'm not buying to sell quickly tho.
Then profits you have not taken. :nono:
I honestly don't think you're being an intentional dumbass, I think it's just that you're actually this stupid. The quote I posted was for LiteCoin this round, not what I already sold and took profits from. This isn't hard.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 26, 2017, 04:35:28 PM
it's very hard to read this thread now and it used to be pretty goodwhy? Its like someone talking about an individual stock..
Post by: The Big Train on June 26, 2017, 04:36:06 PM
Post by: The Big Train on June 26, 2017, 06:11:21 PM
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4084004-make-break-august-1st-event-coming-bitcoin-investors
Post by: wetwillie on June 26, 2017, 06:37:08 PM
Post by: Tobias on June 26, 2017, 06:41:38 PM
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 26, 2017, 07:01:04 PM
I'm not buying to sell quickly tho.
Then profits you have not taken. :nono:
I honestly don't think you're being an intentional dumbass, I think it's just that you're actually this stupid. The quote I posted was for LiteCoin this round, not what I already sold and took profits from. This isn't hard.
I'm not paying attention is all.
Post by: star seed 7 on June 26, 2017, 08:53:08 PM
Post by: chum1 on June 26, 2017, 10:10:39 PM
Post by: wetwillie on June 26, 2017, 10:34:10 PM
I just always figured the TBT posts were perfectly fitting for a thread titled "New To Investing."
:sdeek:
Post by: The Big Train on June 26, 2017, 10:45:38 PM
Post by: Phil Titola on June 26, 2017, 10:45:52 PM
Post by: The Big Train on June 26, 2017, 10:46:41 PM
I got my ETH back :Woohoo: ....lesson learned, know the wallet you are sending
That's good news! :thumbs:
Post by: Phil Titola on June 26, 2017, 10:51:37 PM
I got my ETH back :Woohoo: ....lesson learned, know the wallet you are sending
That's good news! :thumbs:
Thanks TBT, I was happy...now to buy some Ripple, hopefully after ETH bounces back a bit. I'm squatting on LTC until August.
Post by: sys on June 26, 2017, 11:04:41 PM
WARNING: NON BIT CURRENCY POST
So my company is now allowing up to $54k in after-tax contributions to 401(k)s. As far as I can tell, these after-tax contributions are treated almost exactly like any other after-tax investment you would make, except any dividends or other gains are tax-deferred. Seems like a no-brainer to max out this kind of an account before using any other investment accounts unless you plan on being in a higher tax bracket when you start cashing out, which seems counter-intuitive.
be careful about mixing pretax and after tax money in the same tax deferred account. you can get mumped a little that way. the conversion to a roth is a great loophole though.
Post by: catastrophe on June 26, 2017, 11:13:18 PM
WARNING: NON BIT CURRENCY POST
So my company is now allowing up to $54k in after-tax contributions to 401(k)s. As far as I can tell, these after-tax contributions are treated almost exactly like any other after-tax investment you would make, except any dividends or other gains are tax-deferred. Seems like a no-brainer to max out this kind of an account before using any other investment accounts unless you plan on being in a higher tax bracket when you start cashing out, which seems counter-intuitive.
be careful about mixing pretax and after tax money in the same tax deferred account. you can get mumped a little that way. the conversion to a roth is a great loophole though.
I don't really have a choice since it's a 401(k) that my work provides. It seems pretty idiot proof in its current configuration.
Post by: sys on June 26, 2017, 11:20:47 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 27, 2017, 09:17:52 AM
at what point price should I buy eth? I was thinking the $225 mark or you can just pm from now on so we don't get everyones panties in a wadI got my ETH back :Woohoo: ....lesson learned, know the wallet you are sending
That's good news! :thumbs:
Post by: Phil Titola on June 27, 2017, 09:20:25 AM
Post by: The Big Train on June 27, 2017, 09:22:21 AM
at what point price should I buy eth? I was thinking the $225 mark or you can just pm from now on so we don't get everyones panties in a wadI got my ETH back :Woohoo: ....lesson learned, know the wallet you are sending
That's good news! :thumbs:
I think this correction is going to keep going, so I would wait. That flash crash last week, the clogged Ethereum network, and all this profit taking are going to drive the price down even more.
The top 20 cryptic have all taken pretty significant losses the past few days. They shouldn't but they all mirror the Bitcoin market and it drives me nuts.
Post by: Phil Titola on June 27, 2017, 09:35:29 AM
Post by: The Big Train on June 27, 2017, 09:51:09 AM
The flash crash further put more doubt because a single person with a multi million dollar sell order affected the market that much. Those two things weren't really on anyone's radar until they happened and it's caused a massive ripple(no pun intended) effect across the whole cryptoworld.
Post by: catastrophe on June 27, 2017, 02:12:52 PM
i'd check into it. not sure how the roth rollover would work, but i think you can't like take out your chunk of aftertax money and not affect your pretax money. like whatever money comes out is x% aftertax and y% pretax. but maybe they have something different for the rollover.
I think it's all segregated for tax purposes. From the brief research I've done online, it looks like when you switch jobs your pre-tax dollars can get rolled into a traditional IRA (or maybe another 401(k)?) while your aftertax money goes in a Roth IRA.
I only recently found out about this at all, but this year I did not contribute any aftertax dollars until I maxed my pretax ones. Not sure whether you are even able to contribute both simultaneously under our plan.
Post by: The Big Train on June 27, 2017, 06:57:16 PM
I would probably buy back in at that point. Some of the more pro-ETH people thought it would overtake Bitcoin as soon as this year, I never thought that. There were a few new products built on top of the Ethereum network last week and everyone was super happy. Then it clogged the network and put a lot of doubt that it could scale as more and more apps are built on it.
The flash crash further put more doubt because a single person with a multi million dollar sell order affected the market that much. Those two things weren't really on anyone's radar until they happened and it's caused a massive ripple(no pun intended) effect across the whole cryptoworld.
Maybe I should PI the cryptoworld more often! :excited:
Post by: The Big Train on June 27, 2017, 10:25:55 PM
Lightning network is coming, its already been tested and proven on the LiteCoin network(https://mobile.twitter.com/Snyke/status/862419970990501890)
Again, I'm speculating(@wetwillie) but man, it's just the cusp of a global market that is completely untapped.
Post by: puniraptor on June 27, 2017, 10:34:37 PM
keep partying on with the new age wackybucks.
make sure I get notified when a brand new cryptocurrency is launched so I can get in on the ground floor, all these other ones are stale
Post by: The Big Train on June 27, 2017, 10:39:24 PM
everything that can possibly be said or done with normie money has already been covered.
keep partying on with the new age wackybucks.
make sure I get notified when a brand new cryptocurrency is launched so I can get in on the ground floor, all these other ones are stale
You want to create a PuniCrypto? I can show you how!
Post by: Phil Titola on June 27, 2017, 10:40:01 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 28, 2017, 09:18:00 AM
Post by: The Big Train on June 28, 2017, 09:43:09 AM
I didn't buy at $225 like I should've :bawl:
:frown:
I'm not sure anyone saw this coming after the last couple of days :sdeek:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170628/64c4601e9a93bd7ba49456e868aaafe0.png)
Post by: The Big Train on June 28, 2017, 11:57:33 AM
Post by: The Big Train on June 28, 2017, 10:59:28 PM
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/bitcoin-price-analysis-double-bottom-reversal-chases-out-bears/
Post by: Phil Titola on June 29, 2017, 08:08:41 AM
Post by: Phil Titola on June 29, 2017, 09:00:38 PM
Got in on XRP....I think that's got legs based on what market they are going after and who they have signed on already.
Post by: The Big Train on June 29, 2017, 10:22:42 PM
TBT what kind of wallet sitch you got going on....I'm starting to amass some funds that I'm not sure I trust sitting on these platforms. Not :kstategrad: worth but trying to plan for the future.
Got in on XRP....I think that's got legs based on what market they are going after and who they have signed on already.
I only use CoinBase so the following is for that. Whenever I sell I usually transfer my initial stake for that set of buys back to my bank account. I'll also transfer back 60% of the profit I made on the sell.
The other 40% I just keep in my USD wallet for future buys. If my USD wallet gets larger or if I am moving funds around I'll move more of that back to my bank.
I hardly ever use my bank directly because it takes for rough ridin' ever to get it through compared to a CC or the USD wallet. I also like the mindset that I am only spending my CC limit or what's in that USD wallet.
I honestly don't feel worried at all leaving a decent amount of money on there because of their insurance and the fact that 98% of customer funds are stored offline(which is part of the reason it takes days to get your money back to your bank).
I've been doing this for quite a while now tho and find this is a pretty good method for me. To each their own tho on how they want to manage it.
Post by: The Big Train on June 29, 2017, 10:43:23 PM
I didn't buy at $225 like I should've :bawl:
Hey, bud, watch the markets again. :Lurk:
Post by: Phil Titola on June 30, 2017, 07:53:59 AM
Okay...been reading about all these off line hardware wallets and wondered if I should go that route. In all in coinbase as well except my XRP is in poloniex.TBT what kind of wallet sitch you got going on....I'm starting to amass some funds that I'm not sure I trust sitting on these platforms. Not :kstategrad: worth but trying to plan for the future.
Got in on XRP....I think that's got legs based on what market they are going after and who they have signed on already.
I only use CoinBase so the following is for that. Whenever I sell I usually transfer my initial stake for that set of buys back to my bank account. I'll also transfer back 60% of the profit I made on the sell.
The other 40% I just keep in my USD wallet for future buys. If my USD wallet gets larger or if I am moving funds around I'll move more of that back to my bank.
I hardly ever use my bank directly because it takes for rough ridin' ever to get it through compared to a CC or the USD wallet. I also like the mindset that I am only spending my CC limit or what's in that USD wallet.
I honestly don't feel worried at all leaving a decent amount of money on there because of their insurance and the fact that 98% of customer funds are stored offline(which is part of the reason it takes days to get your money back to your bank).
I've been doing this for quite a while now tho and find this is a pretty good method for me. To each their own tho on how they want to manage it.
Post by: The Big Train on June 30, 2017, 08:02:09 AM
Okay...been reading about all these off line hardware wallets and wondered if I should go that route. In all in coinbase as well except my XRP is in poloniex.TBT what kind of wallet sitch you got going on....I'm starting to amass some funds that I'm not sure I trust sitting on these platforms. Not :kstategrad: worth but trying to plan for the future.
Got in on XRP....I think that's got legs based on what market they are going after and who they have signed on already.
I only use CoinBase so the following is for that. Whenever I sell I usually transfer my initial stake for that set of buys back to my bank account. I'll also transfer back 60% of the profit I made on the sell.
The other 40% I just keep in my USD wallet for future buys. If my USD wallet gets larger or if I am moving funds around I'll move more of that back to my bank.
I hardly ever use my bank directly because it takes for rough ridin' ever to get it through compared to a CC or the USD wallet. I also like the mindset that I am only spending my CC limit or what's in that USD wallet.
I honestly don't feel worried at all leaving a decent amount of money on there because of their insurance and the fact that 98% of customer funds are stored offline(which is part of the reason it takes days to get your money back to your bank).
I've been doing this for quite a while now tho and find this is a pretty good method for me. To each their own tho on how they want to manage it.
Yeah I've never used them. The Trezor one I posted a few days ago is good. I'm already paying CoinBase fees on transactions so I'd rather just do it as a service.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on June 30, 2017, 09:12:08 AM
I'm hoping it takes another nosedive!I didn't buy at $225 like I should've :bawl:
Hey, bud, watch the markets again. :Lurk:
Post by: The Big Train on June 30, 2017, 09:48:19 PM
First thing is don't EVER buy on an incremental USD amount, ALWAYS buy a incremental crypto amount. It's way easier to keep track of since the crypto amount will never change. I keep a record of how many cryptos I buy and how much it cost, including fees.
Second thing is I said last night about when I sell how much profit I keep and how much I leave for more investing. I don't take losses, at least with this being such a new market I haven't. If you aren't willing to lose everything you invest in a market like this you shouldn't be investing it. Cryptos are inflation proof. You will always have the same amount that you buy, it will fluctuate based on the exchange rate but the amount you have won't ever change. That's one of the great things about cryptos, they always have a finite number.
You CAN day trade cryptos, like I will after I buy some at this lower price and only sell that amount when it goes back up. The buys I had in the 40's I won't ever sell until I had made profit and am comfortable selling them. If you read enough you will see people talking about "buying the dips", this is what they are talking about.
Lastly this is a risky market, I don't disagree. However if you follow all these principles you won't ever lose in this cryptogame.
Post by: The Big Train on July 01, 2017, 10:47:08 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 03, 2017, 09:04:43 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170703/6eee33218fa3cbec0e538cd81808863e.png)
Post by: Dugout DickStone on July 03, 2017, 09:12:53 AM
Post by: The Big Train on July 03, 2017, 09:30:31 AM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on July 03, 2017, 09:47:46 AM
Post by: The Big Train on July 03, 2017, 09:47:13 PM
$50 is a very important number, breaks that and who knows what happens. New Korean legislation is moving. Let's see what happens here :popcorn:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170703/6eee33218fa3cbec0e538cd81808863e.png)
LFG!!!! We have broken $49 again :excited:
https://cryptowat.ch/gdax/ltcusd
Post by: The Big Train on July 03, 2017, 10:12:55 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170704/34ca62f2193117e6fc665e36fcf1e50f.jpg)
Post by: The Big Train on July 04, 2017, 06:47:19 PM
:kstategrad: :kstategrad: :kstategrad:
Post by: BW on July 04, 2017, 06:52:27 PM
We will have more dips but we just hit the $55 mark which is a new ATH(all time high). The future is bright. For those that have taken this ride with me this time, welcome to the show.Upset I didn't take the time to link my bank account two weeks ago when it dipped to $34...
:kstategrad: :kstategrad: :kstategrad:
Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk
Post by: The Big Train on July 04, 2017, 06:59:37 PM
We will have more dips but we just hit the $55 mark which is a new ATH(all time high). The future is bright. For those that have taken this ride with me this time, welcome to the show.Upset I didn't take the time to link my bank account two weeks ago when it dipped to $34...
:kstategrad: :kstategrad: :kstategrad:
Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk
I'm just happy you are making money bud. This is so much fun! :cheers:
Post by: The Big Train on July 04, 2017, 07:27:28 PM
(https://i.redd.it/ykflsifbnk7z.jpg)
Post by: Phil Titola on July 04, 2017, 07:33:35 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 04, 2017, 07:40:06 PM
Post by: SdK on July 04, 2017, 07:40:16 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 04, 2017, 07:45:08 PM
What's with the seemingly random times marked?
Just different important inflection points during the course of that time frame.
Post by: SdK on July 04, 2017, 07:50:25 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 04, 2017, 08:04:56 PM
It's actually every 5:56 as I look again. Bizarre.
Right now when I look it's every 6 hours, so it changes.
Post by: SdK on July 04, 2017, 08:07:42 PM
:thumbs:It's actually every 5:56 as I look again. Bizarre.
Right now when I look it's every 6 hours, so it changes.
Post by: The Big Train on July 04, 2017, 08:20:44 PM
Tonight(morning in the big market) will see a rise. However I think that tomorrow when the US wakes up it will sell off a bunch of the growth(noobs). We are just starting out July and already making great progress for the month ahead. :driving:
Post by: yoga-like_abana on July 05, 2017, 09:41:38 AM
Post by: ben ji on July 05, 2017, 07:27:56 PM
Maybe start a cryptocurrency thread?
Post by: SdK on July 05, 2017, 07:32:19 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on July 06, 2017, 10:21:35 AM
Every time I see this thread bumped I think someone has found some new exciting way to keep money away from the taxman or some wet behind the ears recent grad has a basic question that we could help with....But nope, just more cryptocurrency stuff.that's exactly what this is
Maybe start a cryptocurrency thread?
Post by: catastrophe on July 06, 2017, 10:25:09 AM
Post by: wetwillie on July 06, 2017, 10:25:26 AM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on July 06, 2017, 10:38:16 AM
Post by: Phil Titola on July 06, 2017, 11:11:02 AM
Yes, this thread has been hijacked. Since this blog apparently does not have any mods we may need to start a new thread for folks interested in actually INVESTING dollars instead of trying to time the market for fledgling securities.What if I want to INVEST dollars in crypto...do I stay here? Need a ruling.
Post by: star seed 7 on July 06, 2017, 11:53:01 AM
I know I just like kidding with the tight butthole normal investors
Normies
Post by: yoga-like_abana on July 06, 2017, 11:56:14 AM
Post by: catastrophe on July 06, 2017, 12:37:03 PM
Yes, this thread has been hijacked. Since this blog apparently does not have any mods we may need to start a new thread for folks interested in actually INVESTING dollars instead of trying to time the market for fledgling securities.What if I want to INVEST dollars in crypto...do I stay here? Need a ruling.
That's up to the mods. So far almost all of the crypto discussion I've seen is about when exactly to buy and sell, so that may need to go in an actual investing thread.
Post by: Gooch on July 06, 2017, 12:40:15 PM
Tax man is going to get theirs yla, you can count on that.(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tvsmacktalk.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F06%2Fautomotivator.jpg&hash=d87ec7be9b1a5e04d0af015bde00a7d942009993)
Post by: The Big Train on July 06, 2017, 12:46:40 PM
It's not like this thread had been flooded with other investments questions. I could have kept this all to myself but it seems to me that others have benefited from me posting about it. The technology this stuff is built on can and eventually will impact the world, nothing wrong with making a little money from it early on.
Post by: The Big Train on July 06, 2017, 06:44:33 PM
Post by: puniraptor on July 07, 2017, 04:51:37 AM
Post by: The Big Train on July 07, 2017, 06:21:00 PM
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/07/strategist-tom-lee-weighs-sees-bitcoin-going-as-high-as-55000.html
Post by: The Big Train on July 07, 2017, 09:05:42 PM
eth is taking a dip again as well. I hope it falls far enough that I can hop in on that as well
Bump
Post by: The Big Train on July 07, 2017, 11:24:39 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 08, 2017, 12:17:44 AM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on July 10, 2017, 11:00:20 AM
at $214 right now!eth is taking a dip again as well. I hope it falls far enough that I can hop in on that as well
Bump
Post by: wetwillie on July 10, 2017, 11:09:11 AM
Post by: SdK on July 10, 2017, 11:23:54 AM
Post by: Republicat on July 10, 2017, 11:31:24 AM
We should have an invest off between TBT and any normie investor the OG's of this thread choose to compete against him. One year, highest return wins and gets to mod the thread.
I'll win :D
Post by: wetwillie on July 10, 2017, 12:41:30 PM
We should have an invest off between TBT and any normie investor the OG's of this thread choose to compete against him. One year, highest return wins and gets to mod the thread.
I'll win :D
Form your coalition government then. Good luck getting Ben ji and catastrophe to elect you with your limited street crew.
Post by: catastrophe on July 10, 2017, 12:57:17 PM
We should have an invest off between TBT and any normie investor the OG's of this thread choose to compete against him. One year, highest return wins and gets to mod the thread.
I kinda like it, although normie investors like myself would probably rather look at returns over a longer period since my investment strategy is predicated on not touching the money I put in for at least 20 years. I guess the other question is whether we are talking any tax advantaged accounts or straight up.
Post by: wetwillie on July 10, 2017, 01:13:08 PM
We should have an invest off between TBT and any normie investor the OG's of this thread choose to compete against him. One year, highest return wins and gets to mod the thread.
I kinda like it, although normie investors like myself would probably rather look at returns over a longer period since my investment strategy is predicated on not touching the money I put in for at least 20 years. I guess the other question is whether we are talking any tax advantaged accounts or straight up.
Straight up, he gets crypto and you get everything else. This blog probably only has 1 more year left anyway so anything further is out of the question.
Post by: The Big Train on July 10, 2017, 04:18:07 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 10, 2017, 04:18:48 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170710/525a7caa21ab785552f726d87944d982.jpg) (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170710/00808dd6190511266f5fde6cdb2e26b1.jpg)
Post by: Republicat on July 10, 2017, 05:00:15 PM
:Chirp:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170710/525a7caa21ab785552f726d87944d982.jpg) (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170710/00808dd6190511266f5fde6cdb2e26b1.jpg)
I do hope you are more diversified than that but hey if you haven't heard of the tech bubble in the late 90's, Google is your friend.
Post by: The Big Train on July 10, 2017, 05:14:05 PM
:Chirp:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170710/525a7caa21ab785552f726d87944d982.jpg) (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170710/00808dd6190511266f5fde6cdb2e26b1.jpg)
I do hope you are more diversified than that but hey if you haven't heard of the tech bubble in the late 90's, Google is your friend.
What is this? I'm not real versed in the tech industry and not real good with computers. Someone at work just showed me this crypto stuff a few months ago and I thought it was a good idea.
Post by: wetwillie on July 10, 2017, 06:30:26 PM
Are you counting the current year or starting over?
Starting over, I don't think you will get a challenger though.
Post by: 0.42 on July 11, 2017, 09:15:09 AM
The problem with your barber comparison is that it's unlikely the advisor could show you a 1% improvement over an index or target retirement fund and will probably be more difficult and take up more of your time. other than that it's spot on. oh, and you didn't see my fangs, buddy. No siree. I only go "Central Texas" on folks when I'm angry.
:love:
Post by: chum1 on July 11, 2017, 09:25:07 AM
Post by: The Big Train on July 11, 2017, 06:10:12 PM
Post by: catastrophe on July 11, 2017, 06:40:27 PM
Are you counting the current year or starting over?
Starting over, I don't think you will get a challenger though.
I'm not sure there is any good way to do it, really. If you go buy actual value it is biased in favor of whoever has more money invested. If purely based on return then someone who buys $1 of an obscure crypto and sells it for $3 would be almost unbeatable.
That said, I'm happy to play because I have nothing to lose. Normies have already lost control.
Post by: wetwillie on July 11, 2017, 06:47:42 PM
Post by: Tobias on July 11, 2017, 09:30:34 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 11, 2017, 09:43:14 PM
It would be hypothetical $1000 invested. You put your buys ITT and so does TBT, whoevers return is greater on a percentage basis wins. Chum1 will be the referee.
So hypothetically I just bought $1000 worth of LTC at $42.48.
Post by: wetwillie on July 11, 2017, 09:46:48 PM
It would be hypothetical $1000 invested. You put your buys ITT and so does TBT, whoevers return is greater on a percentage basis wins. Chum1 will be the referee.
So hypothetically I just bought $1000 worth of LTC at $42.48.
noted. congrats on your 23.54 lite coins. the normies are probably faxing in their order so give them a few days.
Post by: The Big Train on July 12, 2017, 07:03:35 AM
Post by: Mikeyis4dcats on July 12, 2017, 09:05:09 AM
http://www.marketwatch.com/game/
Post by: Tobias on July 12, 2017, 09:05:59 AM
Post by: The Big Train on July 12, 2017, 09:28:14 AM
Post by: catastrophe on July 12, 2017, 09:24:19 PM
10 shares of VXUS @ 52.56 = 525.60
2 shares of VTI @ 125.47 = 250.94
3 shares of VNQ @ 82.16 = 246.48
Not sure if the prices will change when these go through tomorrow, but right now the total comes to $1,023.02.
I of course encourage any other investors (normie or crypto) to join in on the fun.
Post by: wetwillie on July 12, 2017, 09:35:40 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 12, 2017, 10:12:13 PM
Post by: Tobias on July 12, 2017, 10:59:06 PM
Post by: ben ji on July 12, 2017, 11:24:29 PM
Post by: puniraptor on July 13, 2017, 05:10:06 AM
Post by: wetwillie on July 13, 2017, 06:33:50 AM
Post by: The Big Train on July 13, 2017, 10:45:00 AM
It's the first annual TBT vs Normie 365 day investing challenge.
:sdeek:
https://www.godaddy.com/domains/searchresults.aspx?checkAvail=1&tmskey=&domainToCheck=Investoff
Post by: wetwillie on July 13, 2017, 08:12:00 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 13, 2017, 08:15:29 PM
Still bullish on lite coin tbt? Think it could go to $50 by end of summer?
:lol: what?
It's been over $50 5 of the past 10 days.
Post by: wetwillie on July 13, 2017, 08:20:05 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 13, 2017, 08:28:39 PM
so I should still buy at $45?
For me, yes.
I bought several times the past 2 days in the $41-$45 range.
I have bought and sold when the dips have gone into the $30's and back into the $50's to buy again when it gets in that range.
Post by: Phil Titola on July 13, 2017, 08:30:35 PM
Post by: wetwillie on July 13, 2017, 08:32:45 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 13, 2017, 08:34:22 PM
Post by: SdK on July 13, 2017, 08:34:45 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 13, 2017, 08:38:52 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 13, 2017, 08:51:27 PM
I'm just holding for awhile....I've got what I'm comfortable with and spread out among XRP, ETH, and LTC bought at different levels throughout my short dip into the crypto pool.
When you get a core position where you buy a lot in this cryptoworld this is a good plan. Can't let the highs and lows get to you. I've gone 4 figures up and down in a day before. Just gotta trust what you have invested in, that's why it's called investing and not day trading.
Post by: Phil Titola on July 13, 2017, 08:56:04 PM
I'm just holding for awhile....I've got what I'm comfortable with and spread out among XRP, ETH, and LTC bought at different levels throughout my short dip into the crypto pool.
When you get a core position where you buy a lot in this cryptoworld this is a good plan. Can't let the highs and lows get to you. I've gone 4 figures up and down in a day before. Just gotta trust what you have invested in, that's why it's called investing and not day trading.
I'm not quite that in love with it yet but I'm still only considering buying more I guess I should have said....I'm horrible at selling any of my investments honestly.
Post by: The Big Train on July 13, 2017, 09:02:44 PM
I'm just holding for awhile....I've got what I'm comfortable with and spread out among XRP, ETH, and LTC bought at different levels throughout my short dip into the crypto pool.
When you get a core position where you buy a lot in this cryptoworld this is a good plan. Can't let the highs and lows get to you. I've gone 4 figures up and down in a day before. Just gotta trust what you have invested in, that's why it's called investing and not day trading.
I'm not quite that in love with it yet but I'm still only considering buying more I guess I should have said....I'm horrible at selling any of my investments honestly.
Well, I've said it before but this world is very risky and if you aren't comfortable losing everything you invest, you probably shouldn't do it. Once you feel like you have made enough or see a crash coming you have to be willing to sell.
However if you have done your research(which should be your own) and trust your research, then these big price jumps and falls shouldn't worry you as much. That's how I feel anyway, I trust what I know.
Post by: The Big Train on July 13, 2017, 09:59:25 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 14, 2017, 11:09:48 AM
Post by: wetwillie on July 14, 2017, 11:20:36 AM
Post by: The Big Train on July 14, 2017, 11:48:24 AM
Did you talk about segwit earlier ITT? i don't think I quite understand how that is driving up the price of litecoin
There's a lot to it but Litecoin still is tied to Bitcoin on the prices jumps and falls. Litecoin has more potential applications right now than Bitcoin does from an engineering perspective.
For one, Litecoin mines blocks every 2.5 minutes compared to 10 min for Bitcoin. So even without SegWit Litecoin confirms transactions faster. SegWit essentially quadruples the amount of information in each block. Litecoin already has activated SegWit, which proved its viability on Bitcoin(since Litecoin is just a fork of the core Bitcoin code). However there is such an internal struggle with HOW to fix the scaling problem for Bitcoin, and that's why Aug 1 will be interesting. They may not even get to that date and go another route.
Litecoin also has smaller fees compared to Bitcoin, by a lot. So all those things combined and other variables makes Litecoin a better option from an engineering perspective. Everyone loves Bitcoin right now and if and when there is turmoil Litecoin should be there to pick everyone back up.
Post by: The Big Train on July 15, 2017, 11:19:18 AM
Post by: wetwillie on July 15, 2017, 11:36:27 AM
Post by: The Big Train on July 15, 2017, 11:52:53 AM
Think it gets to $30 before aug 1st? I'm getting greedy.
Extremely doubtful. However if it gets below ~$33 I could see a ton of stop loss orders executing and then a real crap show occurring. I don't see that happening tho.
Post by: The Big Train on July 15, 2017, 07:06:29 PM
Bought ~420k LTC held on to them for 5 and half hours, lost ~54k and sold them all for $.13 less per coin.
https://www.reddit.com/r/litecoin/comments/6nhu4u/somebody_opened_up_a_17_million_dollar_wallet/
Post by: SdK on July 15, 2017, 07:18:18 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 15, 2017, 07:34:15 PM
Post by: EMAWican on July 15, 2017, 07:48:56 PM
Post by: SdK on July 15, 2017, 07:58:05 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 15, 2017, 08:07:42 PM
Post by: Phil Titola on July 15, 2017, 09:13:19 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 16, 2017, 07:41:15 AM
Post by: The Big Train on July 16, 2017, 07:59:25 AM
Post by: Phil Titola on July 16, 2017, 09:27:11 AM
Post by: SdK on July 16, 2017, 09:32:35 AM
Post by: CHONGS on July 16, 2017, 09:42:51 AM
Post by: The Big Train on July 16, 2017, 10:33:21 AM
I can't imagine having faith in a currency not backed by gold and silver.
What?
Post by: The Big Train on July 16, 2017, 10:38:07 AM
Crypto is so dumb!
Just enjoy the ride bud! :D
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/54/f4/f9/54f4f99f34086ace709120aa41a86a98.gif)
Post by: EMAWican on July 16, 2017, 11:24:50 AM
Post by: wetwillie on July 16, 2017, 12:40:19 PM
Smelly normie
Post by: The Big Train on July 16, 2017, 12:42:49 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170716/9aa1315b6e1fb20310f2073494a66570.png)
Post by: wetwillie on July 16, 2017, 12:49:32 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 16, 2017, 06:17:56 PM
I bought at $37.12 when do I become a millionaire?
Sooner rather than later. :driving:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170716/5be1d93da2ae1288e03875e1586f477d.png)
Post by: The Big Train on July 17, 2017, 07:02:53 PM
Post by: SdK on July 17, 2017, 07:07:02 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 18, 2017, 09:44:33 AM
You guys are seriously buying cryto's and holding them longer than a day or without stop losses? I can't imagine waking up and down 25+% and then thinking that's a great buying opportunity. Gosh dang I don't have the constitution for that.
:lol:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170718/c5433be2668c5f8c88fb0d76d970ea88.png)
Post by: wetwillie on July 18, 2017, 09:48:32 AM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on July 18, 2017, 09:53:11 AM
sell LTC @ $50?wait until around August 1 bro. Have none of you been listening to tbt?
Post by: The Big Train on July 18, 2017, 10:09:12 AM
Did you talk about segwit earlier ITT? i don't think I quite understand how that is driving up the price of litecoin
There's a lot to it but Litecoin still is tied to Bitcoin on the prices jumps and falls. Litecoin has more potential applications right now than Bitcoin does from an engineering perspective.
For one, Litecoin mines blocks every 2.5 minutes compared to 10 min for Bitcoin. So even without SegWit Litecoin confirms transactions faster. SegWit essentially quadruples the amount of information in each block. Litecoin already has activated SegWit, which proved its viability on Bitcoin(since Litecoin is just a fork of the core Bitcoin code). However there is such an internal struggle with HOW to fix the scaling problem for Bitcoin, and that's why Aug 1 will be interesting. They may not even get to that date and go another route.
I had mentioned this a while back but this is the other route.
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-chain-split-hard-fork-not-likely-miners-agree-segwit/
There's still a chance of a chain split, but nobody knows yet for sure. We are kind in uncharted waters for the next few weeks guys.
Post by: EMAWican on July 18, 2017, 10:27:57 AM
Great! Sell now and take your gains in case it's a deadcat bounce. I'd at least set a stop loss to where I made a little money if it drops 25+% while you're sleeping.You guys are seriously buying cryto's and holding them longer than a day or without stop losses? I can't imagine waking up and down 25+% and then thinking that's a great buying opportunity. Gosh dang I don't have the constitution for that.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170718/c5433be2668c5f8c88fb0d76d970ea88.png)
Post by: meow meow on July 18, 2017, 10:42:12 AM
Post by: The Big Train on July 18, 2017, 04:11:07 PM
Bought ETH
Crypto is so dumb!
Just enjoy the ride bud! :D(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/54/f4/f9/54f4f99f34086ace709120aa41a86a98.gif)
I hope you didn't sell! Like I said, you gotta enjoy the ride. Do you feel any better now? :D
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170718/986ed6c3e2b7ab9dfe6715ac7db39460.png)
Post by: Phil Titola on July 18, 2017, 04:57:35 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 19, 2017, 07:42:12 AM
Post by: 0.42 on July 19, 2017, 08:15:49 AM
Post by: The Big Train on July 19, 2017, 03:56:26 PM
https://twitter.com/coinbase/status/887703206435758080
Post by: yoga-like_abana on July 19, 2017, 03:57:55 PM
Post by: SdK on July 19, 2017, 04:00:35 PM
Post by: wetwillie on July 19, 2017, 04:04:32 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on July 19, 2017, 04:09:31 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 20, 2017, 06:20:19 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170720/fb09bbde5da6e7d9e7773748b68595f5.png)
Post by: wetwillie on July 20, 2017, 06:23:30 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 20, 2017, 09:29:14 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 20, 2017, 10:37:24 PM
http://www.coindesk.com/bip-91-locks-means-bitcoin-not-scaled-yet/
I just sold all my core position. Next few weeks are unknown, however trends say that Thursday evening into the early Friday hours are the weekly highs. Then the weekend happens and it drops. With the atomic surge and everything not locked in, I'm taking minimal profits, "speculating" on a big dip to rebuy my core position.
Post by: The Big Train on July 21, 2017, 05:06:02 AM
https://twitter.com/satoshilite/status/888189269277147139
https://twitter.com/satoshilite/status/888335092560441345
Post by: yoga-like_abana on July 21, 2017, 08:37:54 AM
Post by: mocat on July 21, 2017, 12:19:03 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 21, 2017, 12:35:46 PM
Post by: EMAWican on July 21, 2017, 01:08:36 PM
why cant eth be moving like that:(
Uh, you might want to follow what you're speculating in bud. TBT has just been painting roses up in here.
http://www.businessinsider.com/report-hackers-stole-32-million-in-ethereum-after-a-parity-breach-2017-7
Post by: wetwillie on July 21, 2017, 01:15:13 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on July 21, 2017, 01:19:49 PM
Post by: EMAWican on July 21, 2017, 01:34:09 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 21, 2017, 01:51:28 PM
why cant eth be moving like that:(
Uh, you might want to follow what you're speculating in bud. TBT has just been painting roses up in here.
http://www.businessinsider.com/report-hackers-stole-32-million-in-ethereum-after-a-parity-breach-2017-7
Oh really?
https://www.slashgear.com/as-hacker-steals-7-4m-in-ethereum-eth-price-rises-17491731/
Post by: The Big Train on July 21, 2017, 01:55:17 PM
Post by: EMAWican on July 21, 2017, 02:13:11 PM
Not trying to eff up the speculating or discussion, just doing some type-by posting.
Post by: The Big Train on July 21, 2017, 10:34:09 PM
https://cointelegraph.com/news/south-korea-officially-legalizes-bitcoin-huge-market-for-traders
Post by: wetwillie on July 21, 2017, 11:00:05 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 21, 2017, 11:12:28 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 23, 2017, 09:32:49 AM
Post by: Phil Titola on July 23, 2017, 09:55:48 AM
Post by: SdK on July 23, 2017, 10:18:35 AM
Post by: The Big Train on July 23, 2017, 11:07:02 AM
Everybody just manually tracking sells and buy backs manually for tax purposes or using some app...or should I just :Lips Sealed: about that?
I wrote an application that I track all that in. Every transaction is a taxable event, and it's treated as property.
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf
Post by: Phil Titola on July 23, 2017, 06:08:21 PM
Post by: puniraptor on July 23, 2017, 08:24:37 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 23, 2017, 08:35:04 PM
whats the SoJ to ETH conversion rate? I can't find it on coinbase
I have googled for a solid 5 min and can not figure out what this is in this context
Post by: wetwillie on July 25, 2017, 06:58:41 AM
Post by: The Big Train on July 28, 2017, 07:38:50 AM
These are all pretty unknown. We are having exchanges shut down during the fork period for BTC. As I've said in the past I'm not doing this to sell quick, even tho I have done some of that. I'm riding this thing through the year and into next year. Hope you guys have had fun up to this big day, judgment day. I know I have enjoyed the ride, but it's just getting started for me.
Go Cats! :emawkid: :emawkid: :emawkid:
Post by: yoga-like_abana on July 28, 2017, 08:11:55 AM
Post by: mocat on July 28, 2017, 08:17:53 AM
I hope at my funeral mrs yla talks about me the same way tbt talks about cryptocurrencyI hope mrs yla posts about your death 247365 in the general death thread
Post by: yoga-like_abana on July 28, 2017, 08:19:19 AM
Post by: The Big Train on July 28, 2017, 08:29:40 AM
Post by: SdK on July 28, 2017, 08:21:43 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 28, 2017, 10:15:36 PM
This is a good article about the price jump.
http://www.coindesk.com/bip-91-locks-means-bitcoin-not-scaled-yet/
I just sold all my core position. Next few weeks are unknown, however trends say that Thursday evening into the early Friday hours are the weekly highs. Then the weekend happens and it drops. With the atomic surge and everything not locked in, I'm taking minimal profits, "speculating" on a big dip to rebuy my core position.
Well that was stupid. Got greedy. Bought back in and almost got all of it back that I sold. Lesson learned. :driving:
https://twitter.com/satoshilite/status/888189269277147139
https://twitter.com/satoshilite/status/888335092560441345
I'm honest enough to admit when I'm wrong. I knew I was right, I never sell my entire core position unless I know I'm right. I got scared by the market. I sold my entire core position I had at break even of {redacted} per LTC for {redacted} per LTC. A core position in the {redacted} digits LTC.
eff!!!!
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170729/dd58568694171cdaf0f35fdf70f2eb66.jpg)
Edit: might have shared a little too much.
Post by: The Big Train on July 28, 2017, 10:50:05 PM
:frown:
Post by: wetwillie on July 28, 2017, 10:52:06 PM
Post by: The Big Train on July 28, 2017, 10:55:01 PM
Hence my admission a long time ago it seems that I got lucky investing in it.
Post by: Phil Titola on July 28, 2017, 11:39:00 PM
I hope Phil got out of his ETH position, that crap is getting pummeled.:driving:
Post by: The Big Train on July 31, 2017, 08:35:54 PM
https://bitcoinmagazine.com
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 01, 2017, 12:11:51 PM
There's a reason I have never talked about ETH since I cashed out. It was never meant for long term storage of value, its a currency made to execute the smart contracts on the Ethereum network. Nothing more.I HOPE THAT [redacted] KEEPS CLIMBING TODAY!
Hence my admission a long time ago it seems that I got lucky investing in it.
Post by: Mikeyis4dcats on August 01, 2017, 01:52:27 PM
Post by: The Big Train on August 01, 2017, 06:13:33 PM
https://twitter.com/cnbc/status/892488430659174405
Post by: The Big Train on August 02, 2017, 10:57:22 AM
http://fortune.com/2017/08/02/bitcoin-cash-lawsuit/
Post by: wetwillie on August 02, 2017, 01:39:22 PM
Post by: The Big Train on August 02, 2017, 04:15:06 PM
Is there a feasible way to short bitcoin cash?
Probably not right now. Who knows if it will be around long enough for support. It might replace Bitcoin. It might crash and burn in a week. Nobody knows.
https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/02/wtf-is-bitcoin-cash-and-is-it-worth-anything/
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 02, 2017, 04:26:32 PM
do you think we should expect to see more of this type of fork in the future?Is there a feasible way to short bitcoin cash?
Probably not right now. Who knows if it will be around long enough for support. It might replace Bitcoin. It might crash and burn in a week. Nobody knows.
https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/02/wtf-is-bitcoin-cash-and-is-it-worth-anything/
Post by: The Big Train on August 02, 2017, 04:32:37 PM
do you think we should expect to see more of this type of fork in the future?Is there a feasible way to short bitcoin cash?
Probably not right now. Who knows if it will be around long enough for support. It might replace Bitcoin. It might crash and burn in a week. Nobody knows.
https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/02/wtf-is-bitcoin-cash-and-is-it-worth-anything/
Depends on how well Bitcoin cash does. It kind of came out of nowhere with a segment of the mining community that didn't agree with SegWit2x. I will also add that SegWit2x which increases the block size doesn't necessarily have to activate until November. At that time Bitcoin could fork again as a result of not having a consensus between the miners and the developers. Which was the original fear before everyone got on board with trying to prevent a split a few weeks ago.
Post by: The Big Train on August 02, 2017, 04:39:33 PM
https://cointelegraph.com/news/could-segwit2x-lead-to-three-different-bitcoins
Post by: The Big Train on August 03, 2017, 07:43:55 AM
There's a reason I have never talked about ETH since I cashed out. It was never meant for long term storage of value, its a currency made to execute the smart contracts on the Ethereum network. Nothing more.I HOPE THAT [redacted] KEEPS CLIMBING TODAY!
Hence my admission a long time ago it seems that I got lucky investing in it.
Decided it was time again so I bought a few last night in the $218 range so I hope so too!
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 03, 2017, 11:39:52 AM
lets make that money manThere's a reason I have never talked about ETH since I cashed out. It was never meant for long term storage of value, its a currency made to execute the smart contracts on the Ethereum network. Nothing more.I HOPE THAT [redacted] KEEPS CLIMBING TODAY!
Hence my admission a long time ago it seems that I got lucky investing in it.
Decided it was time again so I bought a few last night in the $218 range so I hope so too!
(https://bakingdisasters.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/make-that-money.jpg)
Post by: The Big Train on August 03, 2017, 08:32:43 PM
lets make that money manThere's a reason I have never talked about ETH since I cashed out. It was never meant for long term storage of value, its a currency made to execute the smart contracts on the Ethereum network. Nothing more.I HOPE THAT [redacted] KEEPS CLIMBING TODAY!
Hence my admission a long time ago it seems that I got lucky investing in it.
Decided it was time again so I bought a few last night in the $218 range so I hope so too!
(https://bakingdisasters.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/make-that-money.jpg)
If we can break this $225 mark we should see it go up a lot. Keep the line moving!!!
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170804/5f377043dcd0faa16f1cf109a96791bb.jpg)
Post by: The Big Train on August 03, 2017, 08:43:27 PM
lets make that money manThere's a reason I have never talked about ETH since I cashed out. It was never meant for long term storage of value, its a currency made to execute the smart contracts on the Ethereum network. Nothing more.I HOPE THAT [redacted] KEEPS CLIMBING TODAY!
Hence my admission a long time ago it seems that I got lucky investing in it.
Decided it was time again so I bought a few last night in the $218 range so I hope so too!
(https://bakingdisasters.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/make-that-money.jpg)
If we can break this $225 mark we should see it go up a lot. Keep the line moving!!!
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170804/5f377043dcd0faa16f1cf109a96791bb.jpg)
:driving:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170804/b73886c5fd194a260d138e6222297921.png)
Post by: wetwillie on August 04, 2017, 10:32:35 PM
Post by: The Big Train on August 05, 2017, 12:05:04 AM
Something is happening :runaway:
I am well aware and tracking
Post by: Tobias on August 05, 2017, 12:27:48 AM
Post by: The Big Train on August 05, 2017, 06:22:08 AM
Post by: The Big Train on August 05, 2017, 08:12:20 AM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 05, 2017, 08:40:30 AM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 05, 2017, 08:42:01 AM
Post by: wetwillie on August 05, 2017, 08:45:04 AM
Post by: The Big Train on August 05, 2017, 08:50:06 AM
Post by: The Big Train on August 05, 2017, 12:37:16 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 05, 2017, 03:23:18 PM
This is rough ridin' crazy right nowI don't know what is going on but I love it
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 05, 2017, 03:24:52 PM
Post by: The Big Train on August 05, 2017, 03:28:26 PM
This is rough ridin' crazy right nowI don't know what is going on but I love it
I sold about 2 hours ago when it got to $256 right before it crashed back into the mid $240's. I sense a market correction soon. Once that happens tho :driving:
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 05, 2017, 03:39:08 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 05, 2017, 03:39:58 PM
Post by: The Big Train on August 05, 2017, 03:47:33 PM
Bitcoin cash is tanking hard, so that's driving it up too. I'll probably buy back in later today or tomorrow if it starts moving again but I wanna make sure there isn't a hard correction first.
Post by: The Big Train on August 06, 2017, 07:49:31 AM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 07, 2017, 09:17:33 AM
Quote
Please enter the two amounts (in cents) we credited to your account. These can take up to three business days to appear in your account.think I'm moving to bittrex
Post by: The Big Train on August 07, 2017, 10:04:07 AM
https://coinmarketcap.com
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 07, 2017, 10:07:28 AM
There are several other cryptos that have been moving on up the list of biggest market caps recently. NEM in particular jumped into the top 5 within the past 24 hours and kicked LTC to 6th. I know nothing about it but a few others just cracked the top 10 too.I've heard signatum is one to keep an eye on
https://coinmarketcap.com
Post by: wetwillie on August 07, 2017, 12:25:20 PM
Post by: Mikeyis4dcats on August 07, 2017, 12:37:47 PM
Post by: ben ji on August 07, 2017, 06:26:19 PM
What if I told you it was a fully typed 1 page .txt file that he printed for me? YOU EXCITED YET?!?
AND IF IS WAS UP LIKE $5 TODAY YOU WOULD TOTALLY WANT TO GET IN RIGHT?
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Post by: ben ji on August 07, 2017, 06:27:38 PM
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Post by: Tobias on August 07, 2017, 06:38:49 PM
Post by: The Big Train on August 07, 2017, 06:51:20 PM
Post by: The Big Train on August 07, 2017, 07:36:57 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/litecoin/comments/6s9fct/my_response_to_all_the_criticism/?st=J62UURZD&sh=158a2f69
Post by: catastrophe on August 08, 2017, 11:57:10 AM
LiteCoin creator
https://www.reddit.com/r/litecoin/comments/6s9fct/my_response_to_all_the_criticism/?st=J62UURZD&sh=158a2f69
That "silver to Bitcoin's gold" line kinda sounds like saying "we will always be the HD DVD to their Blu-ray."
Post by: The Big Train on August 08, 2017, 02:58:08 PM
Post by: The Big Train on August 08, 2017, 03:02:05 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 08, 2017, 03:55:15 PM
I just sold again but making ~$40 per in like two days is very nice. Hopefully it crashes and we can start over again!I'm hoping it breaks over $300 here soon as I still have not gotten my two deposit verifications to my bank account so I can sell it.
Post by: The Big Train on August 08, 2017, 04:56:07 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 09, 2017, 08:53:39 AM
I got it finally! :surprised:I just sold again but making ~$40 per in like two days is very nice. Hopefully it crashes and we can start over again!I'm hoping it breaks over $300 here soon as I still have not gotten my two deposit verifications to my bank account so I can sell it.
Also yea apparently whining to reddit works!
Post by: The Big Train on August 09, 2017, 08:58:11 AM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 09, 2017, 09:24:10 AM
Post by: wetwillie on August 09, 2017, 09:35:06 AM
Post by: The Big Train on August 09, 2017, 10:02:15 AM
Post by: wetwillie on August 09, 2017, 10:36:50 AM
Post by: The Big Train on August 09, 2017, 10:38:33 AM
Post by: The Big Train on August 10, 2017, 10:07:43 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170810/48db94b0f67de8ff5f3076a11766d57b.png)
Post by: The Big Train on August 11, 2017, 06:11:16 PM
Post by: The Big Train on August 12, 2017, 10:34:04 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170812/04eb41a5dbae6520b522c9cf17569035.png)
Post by: The Big Train on August 12, 2017, 11:58:28 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170812/5ebb65764195e79918650bb493e8283a.png)
Post by: The Big Train on August 12, 2017, 12:14:23 PM
bitcoin is really hot right now slobber
Post by: wetwillie on August 12, 2017, 09:58:20 PM
Post by: The Big Train on August 12, 2017, 10:12:31 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 14, 2017, 11:34:35 PM
I feel like BTC is being manipulated to set up for a big downturn soonit's going to get taken over like the Nazis took poland
Post by: The Big Train on August 15, 2017, 09:18:42 AM
Post by: The Big Train on August 16, 2017, 11:59:43 AM
Post by: The Big Train on August 16, 2017, 12:02:15 PM
Post by: The Big Train on August 16, 2017, 12:05:01 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 16, 2017, 12:37:30 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/6u2t61/litecoin_is_ready_for_takeoff_the_success_story/?st=J6F9LA8Y&sh=4e8aa365I feel like this keeps being said but it's been really content sitting right around the $45 mark.
Post by: wetwillie on August 16, 2017, 12:46:52 PM
Post by: The Big Train on August 16, 2017, 01:10:12 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/6u2t61/litecoin_is_ready_for_takeoff_the_success_story/?st=J6F9LA8Y&sh=4e8aa365I feel like this keeps being said but it's been really content sitting right around the $45 mark.
It does get said a lot, I don't disagree. However it's already been to $55 before, so it has the potential. I hear atomic swaps are getting closer too, which would be a game changer.
It's called investing for a reason. How many "experts" said Bitcoin would crash before the fork? How many said it would explode to over $4000 within a few weeks of the fork? LTC is already up over 1000% this year alone, so $45 is actually pretty good.
Post by: The Big Train on August 16, 2017, 09:59:18 PM
Post by: The Big Train on August 16, 2017, 10:01:35 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 17, 2017, 09:28:45 AM
To add to what I posted earlier, again, I'm looking long term. This isn't just a get rich quick scheme anymore for me. I see real long term value being accumulated and great diversification to a portfolio. I also am working on contributing to the cryptocurrency development.oh I have no doubt in that.. I honestly can see eth hitting over $1,000 come January of next year. My stepbro is a miner. He has a ridic setup in his garage and his utility bill is around $1,500 a month because of it.
Post by: The Big Train on August 17, 2017, 09:26:32 PM
Post by: The Big Train on August 18, 2017, 01:20:48 PM
Post by: The Big Train on August 18, 2017, 06:31:05 PM
https://www.coindesk.com/700-rising-whats-driving-price-bitcoin-cash/
Post by: The Big Train on August 18, 2017, 06:36:59 PM
Post by: Phil Titola on August 21, 2017, 08:39:08 AM
Post by: The Big Train on August 21, 2017, 08:50:29 AM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 21, 2017, 09:30:08 AM
Post by: The Big Train on August 21, 2017, 04:55:20 PM
Post by: The Big Train on August 21, 2017, 06:11:13 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/6u2t61/litecoin_is_ready_for_takeoff_the_success_story/?st=J6F9LA8Y&sh=4e8aa365I feel like this keeps being said but it's been really content sitting right around the $45 mark.
:)
Post by: wetwillie on August 21, 2017, 07:58:55 PM
Post by: The Big Train on August 21, 2017, 08:36:58 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 21, 2017, 09:29:28 PM
oh gmafb its at 46 and some changehttps://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/6u2t61/litecoin_is_ready_for_takeoff_the_success_story/?st=J6F9LA8Y&sh=4e8aa365I feel like this keeps being said but it's been really content sitting right around the $45 mark.
:)
Post by: The Big Train on August 21, 2017, 09:32:09 PM
oh gmafb its at 46 and some changehttps://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/6u2t61/litecoin_is_ready_for_takeoff_the_success_story/?st=J6F9LA8Y&sh=4e8aa365I feel like this keeps being said but it's been really content sitting right around the $45 mark.
:)
Time stamp match my posts to the charts bruh
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 21, 2017, 10:25:06 PM
yes for a few brief moments it hit a little bit lower than what I sold at a couple weeks ago.. Once it hits and stays above $50 I'll have a more pro ltc stanceoh gmafb its at 46 and some changehttps://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/6u2t61/litecoin_is_ready_for_takeoff_the_success_story/?st=J6F9LA8Y&sh=4e8aa365I feel like this keeps being said but it's been really content sitting right around the $45 mark.
:)
Time stamp match my posts to the charts bruh
Post by: The Big Train on August 21, 2017, 11:24:02 PM
Man I'd give my left nut for another huge bitcoin sell off
(https://media.giphy.com/media/ZSCSpqycFHbDG/giphy.gif)
Post by: The Big Train on August 21, 2017, 11:24:38 PM
(https://foundationsofliterarystudies.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/rich.gif)
Post by: The Big Train on August 21, 2017, 11:29:32 PM
(https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/celebration-gif-14.gif)
Post by: The Big Train on August 21, 2017, 11:52:36 PM
Post by: The Big Train on August 21, 2017, 11:55:49 PM
(https://media.tenor.com/images/0f47dd6e973913286173bb8b7c552c17/tenor.gif)
Post by: The Big Train on August 22, 2017, 12:01:02 AM
Post by: SdK on August 22, 2017, 08:29:22 AM
Post by: The Big Train on August 22, 2017, 09:32:43 AM
Post by: SdK on August 22, 2017, 10:07:34 AM
Post by: The Big Train on August 22, 2017, 12:34:45 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170822/7158805b86ef19007dfac3b7efa83012.png)
Selling at around $4000 again :kstategrad: :kstategrad: :kstategrad:
Post by: michigancat on August 22, 2017, 12:56:25 PM
Post by: The Big Train on August 22, 2017, 01:11:48 PM
Post by: The Big Train on August 23, 2017, 04:09:13 PM
yes for a few brief moments it hit a little bit lower than what I sold at a couple weeks ago.. Once it hits and stays above $50 I'll have a more pro ltc stanceoh gmafb its at 46 and some changehttps://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/6u2t61/litecoin_is_ready_for_takeoff_the_success_story/?st=J6F9LA8Y&sh=4e8aa365I feel like this keeps being said but it's been really content sitting right around the $45 mark.
:)
Time stamp match my posts to the charts bruh
Holy rough ridin' crap what is going on :runaway:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170823/d8b63b88fcd68e600a50de7d4ebfcf91.png)
Post by: The Big Train on August 23, 2017, 04:10:39 PM
https://twitter.com/lightning/status/900440227495280640
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 23, 2017, 04:11:12 PM
Post by: The Big Train on August 23, 2017, 04:14:38 PM
https://twitter.com/satoshilite/status/900451482884952064
Post by: fun muffin on August 23, 2017, 04:16:46 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 23, 2017, 04:18:28 PM
Post by: The Big Train on August 23, 2017, 04:29:02 PM
Tell me what to do The Big Train. Explain like I'm five
Wait for the market to calm down, now is not the time to be making moves. After that just read back through my posts about my strategy ITT.
Post by: wetwillie on August 23, 2017, 05:22:05 PM
Post by: fun muffin on August 23, 2017, 06:36:31 PM
Tell me what to do The Big Train. Explain like I'm five
Wait for the market to calm down, now is not the time to be making moves. After that just read back through my posts about my strategy ITT.
:thumbs:
Post by: The Big Train on August 24, 2017, 09:29:29 AM
Triple digits soon for our lil guy? what do you think
:Chirp:
I made another market move this morning. The hash rate issues that are going on with BCH are causing people to get nervous. The announcement of LN yesterday plus an influx of BCH investors drove it up. I think it will happen again soon.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 24, 2017, 09:31:28 AM
I'm needing to buy back in now. I agree, I'm honestly surprised that it didn't bump up more than it hasTriple digits soon for our lil guy? what do you think
:Chirp:
I made another market move this morning. The hash rate issues that are going on with BCH are causing people to get nervous. The announcement of LN yesterday plus an influx of BCH investors drove it up. I think it will happen again soon.
Post by: The Big Train on August 30, 2017, 09:43:57 PM
It would be hypothetical $1000 invested. You put your buys ITT and so does TBT, whoevers return is greater on a percentage basis wins. Chum1 will be the referee.
Can we get updated stats? :lol:
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 31, 2017, 09:38:35 AM
also on another note great rap group name
Post by: catastrophe on August 31, 2017, 09:54:06 AM
Post by: catastrophe on August 31, 2017, 09:59:14 AM
Post by: steve dave on August 31, 2017, 10:09:34 AM
Just like our investment portfolios, the normie investors focus on slow, sustained, quality growth of the thread.
good post
Post by: mocat on August 31, 2017, 10:12:41 AM
Oh, and tip for the :kstategrad: out there with money to burn. If your SO is working a job with a 401k (or equivalent) make sure they're maxing it out even if it means taking 70% out of their paycheck. Still makes more financial sense before contributing to an IRA or post-tax 401k in most instances.
why is that
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 31, 2017, 10:13:17 AM
Post by: The Big Train on August 31, 2017, 10:21:59 AM
Just like our investment portfolios, the normie investors focus on slow, sustained, quality growth of the thread.
I can guarantee you the growth of my investments is quality.
Post by: steve dave on August 31, 2017, 10:30:18 AM
smart money would've been to short sell steve dave and his posting skills a couple of years ago
you did and lost
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=32302.msg1129702#msg1129702
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 31, 2017, 10:34:49 AM
this boards just got the itch that I cant scratch.. #catscratchfeversmart money would've been to short sell steve dave and his posting skills a couple of years ago
you did and lost
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=32302.msg1129702#msg1129702
Post by: catastrophe on August 31, 2017, 10:41:00 AM
Oh, and tip for the :kstategrad: out there with money to burn. If your SO is working a job with a 401k (or equivalent) make sure they're maxing it out even if it means taking 70% out of their paycheck. Still makes more financial sense before contributing to an IRA or post-tax 401k in most instances.
why is that
Because only regular 401k is pretax, meaning you save taxes this year on the front end and also get that money working for you in the market. For the other options Uncle Sam will take out a piece of your income before you invest it.
Calculations may be different depending on income. But if you can afford for your SO to lose most of their paycheck you are probably in a high enough tax bracket that you benefit more from saving on taxes now.
Post by: steve dave on August 31, 2017, 01:45:27 PM
if you're maxing out your 401ks and don't qualify for tax advantaged IRAs because of your income you can backdoor a roth by depositing money into a traditional IRA and then immediately rolling it into a roth. it's basically cheating but not against the law.
Post by: The Big Train on September 01, 2017, 11:52:48 AM
It would be hypothetical $1000 invested. You put your buys ITT and so does TBT, whoevers return is greater on a percentage basis wins. Chum1 will be the referee.
So hypothetically I just bought $1000 worth of LTC at $42.48.
:lol:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170901/1245a5a699c20c9de17aae26cd9b8829.png)
Post by: The Big Train on September 19, 2017, 12:34:04 PM
Post by: catastrophe on September 19, 2017, 12:57:07 PM
2. I don't see the point of the hypothetical investment deal now that the normies have control of the thread back.
3. Still plenty of time for a crypto bubble to burst.
Post by: catastrophe on September 19, 2017, 12:58:26 PM
def depends on income. a roth 401k is a pretty nice option to have if you aren't making tons of cash.
if you're maxing out your 401ks and don't qualify for tax advantaged IRAs because of your income you can backdoor a roth by depositing money into a traditional IRA and then immediately rolling it into a roth. it's basically cheating but not against the law.
Also, I would like to hear more about this option. Did not know that was possible. I just recently found out about the post-tax 401k that could be back-doored into a Roth though (typically only after you switch jobs,but still).
Post by: yoga-like_abana on September 19, 2017, 01:00:50 PM
It already did.. And now its blowing back up again
3. Still plenty of time for a crypto bubble to burst.
Post by: The Big Train on September 19, 2017, 01:03:38 PM
1. Some people just don't get this thread.
2. I don't see the point of the hypothetical investment deal now that the normies have control of the thread back.
3. Still plenty of time for a crypto bubble to burst.
If you're going to win why get rid of it?
Post by: yoga-like_abana on September 19, 2017, 01:04:54 PM
Post by: ben ji on September 19, 2017, 01:46:43 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on September 21, 2017, 07:22:43 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: wetwillie on September 21, 2017, 08:03:51 AM
Has anyone used the Robinhood app?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yea it's pretty decent. you can get etf's but I don't think access to actual mutual funds through the app exists yet.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on September 21, 2017, 01:31:58 PM
so if anyone wants to do this as well PM me and I'll figure out how to do the referrals because this was the actual look on my face :Wha:
Post by: The Big Train on September 21, 2017, 01:43:12 PM
Post by: Spracne on September 21, 2017, 03:06:51 PM
Has anyone used the Robinhood app?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yea it's pretty decent. you can get etf's but I don't think access to actual mutual funds through the app exists yet.
But don't only completely ignorant idiots purchase mutual funds? That's what people are saying...
Post by: wetwillie on September 21, 2017, 03:11:11 PM
Has anyone used the Robinhood app?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yea it's pretty decent. you can get etf's but I don't think access to actual mutual funds through the app exists yet.
But don't only completely ignorant idiots purchase mutual funds? That's what people are saying...
Quit subtweeting and @ someone.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on September 21, 2017, 03:30:57 PM
spracne pm me your phone number so we can party with another individual stock. made my coworker sign up she got zynga not the same as Xanga (who remembers that place!) and I got groupon this go around :curse:Has anyone used the Robinhood app?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yea it's pretty decent. you can get etf's but I don't think access to actual mutual funds through the app exists yet.
But don't only completely ignorant idiots purchase mutual funds? That's what people are saying...
Post by: catastrophe on February 01, 2018, 03:22:42 PM
def depends on income. a roth 401k is a pretty nice option to have if you aren't making tons of cash.
if you're maxing out your 401ks and don't qualify for tax advantaged IRAs because of your income you can backdoor a roth by depositing money into a traditional IRA and then immediately rolling it into a roth. it's basically cheating but not against the law.
Bumping this thread because it is IRA season (and bonus season for some) and I need to know more about this regular IRA immediate rollover into Roth thing. Any :kstategrad: successfully done this, and is there any reason NOT to do it? TIA
Post by: sys on February 01, 2018, 03:44:59 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 01, 2018, 03:59:12 PM
Post by: catastrophe on February 03, 2018, 10:13:21 AM
if you're making enough money that you're not eligible for a tax advantaged IRA, you probably don't want to deposit into a roth.
Probably should have requested an explanation before pulling the trigger, but for posterity’s sake can you explain?
I can’t think of any reason you would want a traditional IRA over a Roth, especially if (like me) all the contributions were after tax anyway.
Post by: sys on February 03, 2018, 10:59:44 AM
logic is/was that if you're in a high marginal rate now, you don't want to save/convert to after-tax now. put as much as you can in pre-tax savings and convert in some year when you have a low marginal rate.
Post by: catastrophe on February 03, 2018, 02:47:29 PM
Regular IRA (post tax): money grows tax deferred. Gains still taxed on withdrawal.
Roth IRA: grows tax free and no taxes on withdrawal.
I’m still confused what happens when you convert a post tax IRA to Roth. I already have a 401k so I don’t think pre-tax IRA is even an option. But I thought if I convert a post tax IRA then the gains would be taxable (hence better to do it sooner rather than later).
Post by: sys on February 03, 2018, 03:26:57 PM
this is all afaik, i've never made any nondeductible contributions to a traditional, so i've never looked into the details much.
Post by: sys on February 03, 2018, 03:38:51 PM
btw, your ira contribution limit isn't dependent on your 401k contributions (assuming you're an employee and have a work-sponsored plan), it's based on your income.
Post by: catastrophe on February 03, 2018, 08:55:35 PM
Post by: mocat on February 03, 2018, 09:20:25 PM
Post by: catastrophe on February 03, 2018, 09:33:25 PM
My employer offers pretax 401k up to the 18,000 limit and then post tax after that. I recently read the post tax 401k is great because if/when you switch jobs it can be rolled into a Roth IRA.
Post by: steve dave on February 04, 2018, 10:55:52 AM
I have half my 401k post and the other half pre tax, am I stupid or something
I did all roth 401k (post) when I wasn't making crap and mrs. dave was a full time student. Later I switched.
Post by: ben ji on July 18, 2018, 11:19:08 AM
Post by: sys on July 18, 2018, 11:21:19 AM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreylevine/2018/07/13/irs-unlocks-the-door-for-high-income-savers/#17ac4122326c
i didn't realize it was a questionable thing.
Post by: steve dave on July 18, 2018, 01:27:11 PM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreylevine/2018/07/13/irs-unlocks-the-door-for-high-income-savers/#17ac4122326c
i didn't realize it was a questionable thing.
I've been doing this for years
Post by: catastrophe on July 19, 2018, 01:57:58 PM
I did this for the first time this year. It was never specifically barred under the law (which is why everyone was doing it), but there were plenty of questions as to whether the IRS could treat backdoor rollovers under the doctrine that you can’t use otherwise legal steps to reach an illegal result (i.e., contributing to a Roth when you are over the income limit).
Post by: Phil Titola on July 19, 2018, 02:45:14 PM
Did you move all your old IRAs into 401k so when you do the backdoor you don't have to deal with the entire IRA (which I believe is supposed to be all of them you own) making any money ....or just move it ASAP.https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreylevine/2018/07/13/irs-unlocks-the-door-for-high-income-savers/#17ac4122326c
i didn't realize it was a questionable thing.
I've been doing this for years
Post by: catastrophe on July 19, 2018, 02:57:50 PM
Post by: sys on July 19, 2018, 03:02:26 PM
You can just dump regular IRA funds into a Roth. I’m not sure why you wouldn’t want to do all of it. Regular IRAs aren’t that great.
if you want to space it out for taxes.
Post by: catastrophe on July 19, 2018, 03:14:59 PM
Edit: just realizing this may be repeating a conversation we had earlier. I assume it makes a difference if your regular IRA contributions were pretax?
Post by: Phil Titola on July 19, 2018, 03:33:35 PM
That’s over my head. What’s the tax impact? I didn’t see any.
Edit: just realizing this may be repeating a conversation we had earlier. I assume it makes a difference if your regular IRA contributions were pretax?
Post by: sys on July 19, 2018, 03:59:19 PM
Post by: catastrophe on July 19, 2018, 04:01:56 PM
Post by: steve dave on July 19, 2018, 07:07:38 PM
Did you move all your old IRAs into 401k so when you do the backdoor you don't have to deal with the entire IRA (which I believe is supposed to be all of them you own) making any money ....or just move it ASAP.https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreylevine/2018/07/13/irs-unlocks-the-door-for-high-income-savers/#17ac4122326c
i didn't realize it was a questionable thing.
I've been doing this for years
I had no old IRAs prior to. Only started once maxed on 401ks. Do a lump some deposit and transfer immediately.
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Post by: Phil Titola on July 19, 2018, 09:36:15 PM
Post by: catastrophe on July 19, 2018, 10:22:35 PM
Post by: Phil Titola on July 19, 2018, 10:44:23 PM
Ok, now I'm up to speed. Are you sure you can even roll over part of a 401k into an IRA? It seems like that could be even more difficult since 401k is tied to your job?After I left that old job. Easy peasy.... Kind of bad for backdoor rothing though
Post by: steve dave on July 19, 2018, 10:46:27 PM
Ok, now I'm up to speed. Are you sure you can even roll over part of a 401k into an IRA? It seems like that could be even more difficult since 401k is tied to your job?
it's easy. but you don't need to. unless the 401k provider sucks.
Post by: catastrophe on July 24, 2018, 10:08:42 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on August 06, 2018, 08:41:58 PM
https://techcrunch.com/2018/08/06/twilio-came-ahead-of-expectations-and-the-stock-is-going-nuts/
Post by: ben ji on August 15, 2018, 11:17:30 AM
Hi ben ji,
NVDA announces earnings Thursday after market close. My buy price is $238.
I will look for a run up, topping (peak), then sell looking for a re-buy in at a lower price.
There were two exciting articles today - one about their new "touring" based AI chip technology (replacing their Pascal based chip technology). Another was an analyst professing a 40% upside potential.
Their automated vehicle work is a few years away for income impact, but the AI technology business is picking up nicely. Gaming remains their big bread winner.
They are a good stock to follow. PE is about 49. An interesting counter is MU which has a PE of 5 and is also a chip maker.
That says something about the potential investors have in NVDA.
Dad
Post by: ben ji on August 29, 2018, 09:32:25 AM
https://www.kansascity.com/news/business/article217071995.html
Quote
Like many others, Sohraby met Matt Walker at a free dinner last winter. The investment adviser pitched his services before his audience as Sohraby and about two dozen others ate.
The topic that night was annuities from insurance giant Allianz. Those memorandums of indebtedness from 1st Global Capital didn’t come up until later, when Sohraby met Walker in the Overland Park offices of Pinnacle Plus Financial.
These were short-term deals that were supposed to pay back Sohraby with interest at the end of nine months. Sohraby signed and his memorandum of indebtedness was due to pay off Aug. 8 — about a week after 1st Global Capital entered bankruptcy proceedings and froze thousands of accounts, including his.
Because guess what? Ole Ben Ji's MOTHER (NOT MY DAD) decided to invest in this scam a couple of years ago. I've given up on trying to help my dad and his penny stock addiction but I expected better from my Mom who was the DIRECTOR OF ACCOUNTING for a hospital before she retired.
She originally invested in it about 2 years ago and told me about it after she had already committed the money. I immediately told her it was a scam and the money was gone. She disagreed but I convinced her to try and withdraw her money after the 9 month contract was up instead of rolling it over.
Well 9 months go by and she tries to get her money back with the interest but can't, all sorts of issues etc etc. She eventually got some of her initial invest back before they declared bankruptcy but never got back to whole. Luckily the amount she invested was in the low 5 figures and was not a significant part of her portfolio...In her defense she said "I didn't invest more than I was prepared to lose" which I understand.
TL:DR - TALK TO YOUR RETIRED PARENTS ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE INVESTED IN SO THEY DONT FALL FOR SCAMS LIKE THIS.
Post by: sys on August 29, 2018, 03:20:10 PM
Post by: ben ji on August 30, 2018, 12:34:28 PM
that sucks, benji. out of curiosity, do you know what sort of interest rate they were promising?I read the paperwork my mom had but can't recall off the top of my head. It was nothing too ridiculous and depended on how much of the loan to the various businesses were collected on, maybe 6-12% or so.
The part that stood out as a scam for me was that they were initially pitched the idea after attending a group presentation on how best practices for collecting SS.
That and the fact that I love watching American Greed on CNBC and this "Investment" had all the markings of a pyramid scheme.
Post by: Kat Kid on August 30, 2018, 12:37:33 PM
Post by: steve dave on August 30, 2018, 04:07:40 PM
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Post by: Kat Kid on August 30, 2018, 10:16:59 PM
Tell her to eff off
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My mom or the interior designer?
Post by: steve dave on August 31, 2018, 12:22:56 AM
Tell her to eff off
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My mom or the interior designer?
My goodness
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Post by: Kat Kid on August 31, 2018, 07:35:18 AM
Tell her to eff off
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My mom or the interior designer?
My goodness
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Well the interior designer is a man and I wanted to know if I needed to tell you to line your family up in front of Ernie Barrett.
Post by: ChiComCat on August 31, 2018, 07:59:20 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on August 31, 2018, 08:03:49 AM
Is it possible your mom realizes it is a scam but it is something that she kind of enjoys?
I think this is probably it. I am being kind of semi-serious here, but I do worry because my grandmother got taken for god knows how much (definitely 6 figures) by her care taker when she was older. This isn't that, but. . .
Post by: DaBigTrain on October 11, 2018, 11:25:39 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on October 11, 2018, 12:27:11 PM
So is now a good time or nah to start investing?
now is a good time
Post by: CHONGS on October 11, 2018, 12:31:33 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on October 11, 2018, 12:43:04 PM
https://www.patriotgoldgroup.com/download/gold-investor-guide.html
:nono:
Post by: chum1 on November 03, 2018, 08:32:38 AM
EGLTQ
EGALET CORP -97.87%
Post by: meow meow on November 03, 2018, 04:43:26 PM
Post by: steve dave on November 05, 2018, 09:02:26 AM
Post by: Brock Landers on November 05, 2018, 09:19:56 AM
Post by: wetwillie on November 05, 2018, 09:40:50 AM
Post by: star seed 7 on November 05, 2018, 09:47:10 AM
Post by: DaBigTrain on November 05, 2018, 12:25:41 PM
yeah, buy the dip chum
:emawkid: :emawkid: :emawkid:
Post by: I_have_purplewood on November 05, 2018, 01:28:37 PM
About to put a fairly substantial amount of money (for me) into a new commercial property group with some people running it that I really respect. Still very nervous :ohno:
Like a REIT?
Post by: star seed 7 on November 05, 2018, 01:44:23 PM
Post by: IPA4Me on November 05, 2018, 06:10:58 PM
Does anyone put a meaningful amount of their retirement into individual stocks? The idea alone makes my palms sweat.Nope. Too lazy. Just pound total market fund in my IRA and comparable mix in my 401K.
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Post by: catastrophe on November 06, 2018, 08:52:54 AM
Does anyone put a meaningful amount of their retirement into individual stocks? The idea alone makes my palms sweat.Nope. Too lazy. Just pound total market fund in my IRA and comparable mix in my 401K.
Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
Yeah it can be fun to play around, but trading individual stocks really is just gambling at the end of the day. The only sure bet is that the market as a whole will go up over time, so that’s what you gotta do for retirement IMO.
Post by: catastrophe on November 06, 2018, 08:56:02 AM
Basically, but it's small, local, and not publicly traded. I personally know all the investors at this point.
As long as the bulk of your money is in more stable investments, I think this kind of stuff is a great way to diversify. I’d probably be doing more of this if I had access to the opportunities. Especially at a point like this where the market is likely close to being stagnant for a while.
Post by: chum1 on November 06, 2018, 09:00:59 AM
I think I'd feel comfortable enough with maybe seven or eight.
Post by: catastrophe on November 06, 2018, 09:14:08 AM
Post by: steve dave on November 06, 2018, 09:15:26 AM
What's the minimum number of individual stocks you'd feel comfortable risking your retirement savings on?
I think I'd feel comfortable enough with maybe seven or eight.
what's the point? unless you just love gambling or just love to insider trade?
Post by: chum1 on November 06, 2018, 09:20:40 AM
I’ve never even thought along those lines before. Why choose 7 or 8 when you can have like 500?
Higher risk/reward
Post by: chum1 on November 06, 2018, 09:23:15 AM
What's the minimum number of individual stocks you'd feel comfortable risking your retirement savings on?
I think I'd feel comfortable enough with maybe seven or eight.
what's the point? unless you just love gambling or just love to insider trade?
Possibility of raising standard of living in retirement.
Post by: chum1 on November 06, 2018, 09:33:11 AM
What's the minimum number of individual stocks you'd feel comfortable risking your retirement savings on?
I think I'd feel comfortable enough with maybe seven or eight.
what's the point? unless you just love gambling or just love to insider trade?
Possibility of raising standard of living in retirement.
Oh, also, if you do really well, you could take out money now and pay the tax on it. Money you otherwise wouldn't have had.
Post by: catastrophe on November 06, 2018, 09:35:09 AM
If you want more money in retirement, your best bet is utilizing all tax advantaged investment options, and then
1. Lower your standard of living now (which means saving more and giving that money more time to grow); and/or
2. Raise your retirement age (same idea, really).
Post by: wetwillie on November 06, 2018, 09:44:43 AM
Post by: chum1 on November 06, 2018, 10:00:48 AM
I'd probably push it.
Post by: steve dave on November 06, 2018, 10:01:55 AM
What's the minimum number of individual stocks you'd feel comfortable risking your retirement savings on?
I think I'd feel comfortable enough with maybe seven or eight.
what's the point? unless you just love gambling or just love to insider trade?
Possibility of raising standard of living in retirement.
that's option 1
Post by: IPA4Me on November 06, 2018, 10:05:46 AM
https://amp.businessinsider.com/warren-buffett-wins-million-dollar-bet-against-hedge-funds-2018-1
If hedge fund experts aren't beating S&P, what would make you think you could?
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Post by: chum1 on November 06, 2018, 10:21:23 AM
Post by: wetwillie on November 06, 2018, 10:22:45 AM
Post by: sys on November 06, 2018, 10:24:35 AM
Does anyone put a meaningful amount of their retirement into individual stocks? The idea alone makes my palms sweat.
yes. most of my money is in individual stocks (somewhere btwn 10-15% isn't).
Post by: wetwillie on November 06, 2018, 10:26:26 AM
Does anyone put a meaningful amount of their retirement into individual stocks? The idea alone makes my palms sweat.
yes. most of my money is in individual stocks (somewhere btwn 10-15% isn't).
How do you choose which ones?
Post by: IPA4Me on November 06, 2018, 10:26:57 AM
Post by: sys on November 06, 2018, 10:31:08 AM
Does anyone put a meaningful amount of their retirement into individual stocks? The idea alone makes my palms sweat.
yes. most of my money is in individual stocks (somewhere btwn 10-15% isn't).
How do you choose which ones?
i read about different companies and then decide which ones i like and want to own.
i don't think it's probable that i will beat the overall market by picking individual stocks, but it's much more motivating to me. i'm a collector and i like collecting things (mostly snakes, mice and shares of corporations).
Post by: catastrophe on November 06, 2018, 11:22:59 AM
Post by: steve dave on November 06, 2018, 11:53:33 AM
Does anyone put a meaningful amount of their retirement into individual stocks? The idea alone makes my palms sweat.
yes. most of my money is in individual stocks (somewhere btwn 10-15% isn't).
How do you choose which ones?
i read about different companies and then decide which ones i like and want to own.
i don't think it's probable that i will beat the overall market by picking individual stocks, but it's much more motivating to me. i'm a collector and i like collecting things (mostly snakes, mice and shares of corporations).
sys, you are the most interesting poster on this blog imo
Post by: sys on November 06, 2018, 11:58:18 AM
Post by: I_have_purplewood on November 06, 2018, 12:00:00 PM
Does anyone put a meaningful amount of their retirement into individual stocks? The idea alone makes my palms sweat.
yes. most of my money is in individual stocks (somewhere btwn 10-15% isn't).
How do you choose which ones?
I've always gravitated towards things I'm interested in or know something about. I also like looking at the dogs of the dow. They're company's we all know and but have gotten beaten up compared to the others. They also pay a dividend which you can use to buy more shares or use elsewhere. I have close to 25% in individual stocks but I think there are variables to how much each should own. Age, dough, risk tolerance and how much time you have watch and trade. With my job I am able to pay more attention to my portfolio if need be.
Post by: tdaver on November 06, 2018, 12:10:40 PM
Post by: steve dave on November 06, 2018, 02:37:52 PM
Does anyone put a meaningful amount of their retirement into individual stocks? The idea alone makes my palms sweat.
yes. most of my money is in individual stocks (somewhere btwn 10-15% isn't).
How do you choose which ones?
I've always gravitated towards things I'm interested in or know something about. I also like looking at the dogs of the dow. They're company's we all know and but have gotten beaten up compared to the others. They also pay a dividend which you can use to buy more shares or use elsewhere. I have close to 25% in individual stocks but I think there are variables to how much each should own. Age, dough, risk tolerance and how much time you have watch and trade. With my job I am able to pay more attention to my portfolio if need be.
go buy an absolute shitload of GE. you should be able to take a majority share for the price of an F150 at this point and there is no bigger dog.
Post by: 8manpick on November 06, 2018, 02:48:03 PM
Post by: I_have_purplewood on November 06, 2018, 02:52:58 PM
Does anyone put a meaningful amount of their retirement into individual stocks? The idea alone makes my palms sweat.
yes. most of my money is in individual stocks (somewhere btwn 10-15% isn't).
How do you choose which ones?
I've always gravitated towards things I'm interested in or know something about. I also like looking at the dogs of the dow. They're company's we all know and but have gotten beaten up compared to the others. They also pay a dividend which you can use to buy more shares or use elsewhere. I have close to 25% in individual stocks but I think there are variables to how much each should own. Age, dough, risk tolerance and how much time you have watch and trade. With my job I am able to pay more attention to my portfolio if need be.
go buy an absolute shitload of GE. you should be able to take a majority share for the price of an F150 at this point and there is no bigger dog.
Yeah, going to have to dollar cost average this dog for sure. I think there is more pain here but have buys in the system. I should have had some puts on this SOB. I will buy F when it sinks below $5 btw.
Post by: DaBigTrain on November 06, 2018, 03:48:21 PM
SD, I’ll give you $1k for gE instead, how about that?
You could create a copycat version of gE for $11.99
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181106/ec93f0c7889fab479582593db24e2420.jpg)
Post by: steve dave on November 07, 2018, 07:40:09 AM
SD, I’ll give you $1k for gE instead, how about that?
NO DEAL
Post by: I_have_purplewood on November 12, 2018, 11:19:16 AM
Does anyone put a meaningful amount of their retirement into individual stocks? The idea alone makes my palms sweat.
yes. most of my money is in individual stocks (somewhere btwn 10-15% isn't).
How do you choose which ones?
I've always gravitated towards things I'm interested in or know something about. I also like looking at the dogs of the dow. They're company's we all know and but have gotten beaten up compared to the others. They also pay a dividend which you can use to buy more shares or use elsewhere. I have close to 25% in individual stocks but I think there are variables to how much each should own. Age, dough, risk tolerance and how much time you have watch and trade. With my job I am able to pay more attention to my portfolio if need be.
go buy an absolute shitload of GE. you should be able to take a majority share for the price of an F150 at this point and there is no bigger dog.
Yeah, going to have to dollar cost average this dog for sure. I think there is more pain here but have buys in the system. I should have had some puts on this SOB. I will buy F when it sinks below $5 btw.
Broke old 10 year support levels today. If it doesn't close strong then more pain but if it does it should be a buy signal.
Post by: ben ji on November 13, 2018, 05:05:49 PM
Post by: steve dave on November 13, 2018, 06:28:14 PM
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Post by: chum1 on November 15, 2018, 07:04:05 AM
I picked up a little of this stock like a year in an attempt to buy low. Here's what it's done since. :lol:
EGLTQ
EGALET CORP -97.87%
:lol:
Quote
Please click the below link to view an important document related to the EGALET CORPORATION bankruptcy case:http://www.kccllc.net/egalet/info/8994
Notice of Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Case
Post by: chum1 on November 15, 2018, 07:06:31 AM
Post by: catastrophe on November 15, 2018, 08:25:25 AM
Post by: sys on November 15, 2018, 04:06:56 PM
sys, is EGLT a company you would like to have in your collection? Why or why not?
no, because i don't know anything about it and also some guy on a bulletin board i read says they're going bankrupt.
Post by: Phil Titola on December 29, 2018, 12:50:55 PM
Post by: steve dave on December 29, 2018, 12:56:04 PM
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Post by: Phil Titola on December 29, 2018, 02:01:53 PM
They talk about some of the big names on CNBC sometimes. I think you’d have to go the private route for any MO specific investments.
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Yeah I have a potential private opportunity, I just have no idea to judge if it's a good investment....nor the risks to take into account...seems overall like a gold rush situation just want to hook to the right wagon.
Post by: ben ji on January 22, 2019, 09:17:36 PM
They talk about some of the big names on CNBC sometimes. I think you’d have to go the private route for any MO specific investments.
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Yeah I have a potential private opportunity, I just have no idea to judge if it's a good investment....nor the risks to take into account...seems overall like a gold rush situation just want to hook to the right wagon.
My companys parent company is in the BIG AG business and we share an office. I went into a conference room the other day and looked at the whiteboard, instead of price per bushel for whatever money losing grain is in flavor this week jotted all over the whiteboards it was a grow schedule/staff/warehouse/electricity costs/security etc....I asked around and it looks like they might be buying a weed company in Canada.
Post by: ben ji on January 22, 2019, 09:50:39 PM
Scenario: You have money in a 401k but will be going back to school in the summer for a couple of years full time to earn an advanced degree in a field that will roughly double your income. You will not be able to work or earn any money during this time.
1.While you are in school and not earning any money you should AT MINIMUM convert $12,000 per year from the 401k to a Roth IRA. Since the Standard Deduction for a single person is $12,000 you would not have to pay any taxes for the conversion and could withdraw that money tax free in retirement. Correct?
2. Lets assume you plan on paying for some of it with savings and part of it with student loans(no idea on the vig). If you need to convert more than $12,000 per year into a roth ira while you have no declared income is it worth it to use part of your savings or student loans to pay for the taxes (lets assume it would be in the 12% bracket and your student loans are like 7% or whatever the going rate is these days) instead of using those savings/loans to pay for school?
3. If the answer to #3 is to use your savings to cover any taxes on conversions in the 12% tax bracket then shouldn't you make sure to maximize your 401k to the limit for the first part of this year before you go back to school?
Any other tips/recommendations for this specific scenario?
Post by: ben ji on January 22, 2019, 09:56:38 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on January 23, 2019, 08:32:28 AM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 23, 2019, 08:50:01 AM
Just looked at the KU grad level tax brackets and it looks like the first $9,526 in income is taxed at 0% so with the $12,000 deduction could you convert $21,526 from a 401k to a roth ira each year without paying any taxes?
I think so, but you would have to not earn any other income and somehow manage to survive the whole year.
Post by: Kat Kid on January 23, 2019, 08:58:07 AM
You'll still get hit with the early withdrawal penalty won't you?
Quote
Higher Education Expenses (IRA only)
Withdrawals from IRAs for qualified higher education expenses for you, your spouse, child, or grandchild are exempt from the early withdrawal penalty. The distribution can’t exceed the qualified higher education expenses incurred during the tax year. Qualified higher education expenses include tuition at a postsecondary school, room and board (if enrolled at least half-time), fees, books, supplies, and equipment required for enrollment or attendance.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 23, 2019, 09:12:10 AM
I suppose you can say you're using that money for higher education expenses and putting "different" money into the Roth.
Post by: ben ji on January 23, 2019, 09:15:33 AM
You wouldn't be withdrawing from your IRA to pay for school. You would convert money from your traditional IRA to a Roth IRA while you have no income and thus not pay any taxes up to a certain amount.You'll still get hit with the early withdrawal penalty won't you?QuoteHigher Education Expenses (IRA only)
Withdrawals from IRAs for qualified higher education expenses for you, your spouse, child, or grandchild are exempt from the early withdrawal penalty. The distribution can’t exceed the qualified higher education expenses incurred during the tax year. Qualified higher education expenses include tuition at a postsecondary school, room and board (if enrolled at least half-time), fees, books, supplies, and equipment required for enrollment or attendance.
Post by: ben ji on January 23, 2019, 09:17:44 AM
That's where student loans/savings come in.Just looked at the KU grad level tax brackets and it looks like the first $9,526 in income is taxed at 0% so with the $12,000 deduction could you convert $21,526 from a 401k to a roth ira each year without paying any taxes?
I think so, but you would have to not earn any other income and somehow manage to survive the whole year.
Post by: sys on January 23, 2019, 09:51:37 AM
also, if you can figure out how to declare a little income, contribute to your roth in those years.
Post by: catastrophe on January 23, 2019, 09:52:45 PM
Post by: sys on January 23, 2019, 10:25:40 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 23, 2019, 10:53:30 PM
Whilst not making any money, is it possible to roll over your entire 401(k) into a (Roth) IRA?
I mean, yeah. But mostly no. without paying something.
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Post by: catastrophe on January 24, 2019, 09:26:47 AM
Or does the IRS have specific rules about that kind of deal?
Post by: sys on January 24, 2019, 09:33:38 AM
Post by: catastrophe on January 24, 2019, 10:26:55 AM
Post by: sys on January 24, 2019, 10:44:10 AM
On the gains I guess? Seems better now than later, especially when your income is down.
for sure.
Post by: ben ji on January 24, 2019, 10:07:19 PM
I thought a 401(k) could be rolled over into an IRA between jobs. And that an IRA could be rolled over into a Roth IRA whenever.
Or does the IRS have specific rules about that kind of deal?
On the gains I guess? Seems better now than later, especially when your income is down.
You can and should roll a 401k into a traditional IRA every time you switch jobs, both are "Pre Tax" meaning you did not pay any income tax on the contribution so they are treated the same way and there are no taxes/fee's due.
A roth IRA is "Post tax" meaning it has already been taxed (ex you have $6,000 in a saving account and decide to start a roth IRA).
If you convert your "pre tax" traditional IRA into a "post tax" roth IRA the entire amount is taxed as if you earned the income in the year you converted it. (Or maybe its just the contributions? and gains are not taxed?)
Scenario: You make 100k a year. You also have 100k in a traditional IRA and want to convert it into a Roth IRA. Since the traditional ira money was never taxed you would have to pay income taxes on the entire amount you are converting (or just your contributions, still not sure but lets assume for brevity its the entire amount), your income for the year would be 200k and the 100k you converted would be taxed like its the income you made between $100,001 and $200,000. Thats alot of taxes to pay.
The only time converting a "Pre tax" traditional IRA into a "Post tax" roth IRA makes sense is when your income extremely is low and you have money to pay any taxes you might owe if any (going back to school/taking a year off to fish on every continent/etc).
Scenario: You quit your job in December and moved back into your parents basement for the next year to pursue your dream of being a professional BBS'r, you didnt make any money for the year but have 10k in a traditional IRA you want to convert into roth IRA. Your total taxable income for the year after the conversion is 10k and you would pay nothing in taxes on the conversion since people who make 10k a year dont pay income taxes. Poof, you never paid any taxes on that 10k when you contributed it to your traditional IRA and wont have to pay taxes when you withdraw it in retirement or after 5 years from your roth IRA(unless the gubment changes their laws).
Post by: catastrophe on January 25, 2019, 07:20:32 AM
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on January 25, 2019, 10:19:34 AM
Post by: steve dave on January 25, 2019, 10:25:18 AM
I'm doing some of my own investing with Fidelity. All mutual funds. Mostly index funds but a few riskier funds. From January 1, 2016 to today, my investments are up 43%. Over that same time span, the DJIA is up 40%. So looks like I'm basically matching to slightly beating index performance. Is that good? Should I be doing better?
nice work. I have exclusively Vanguard S&P Admiral shares and am going to ride that pony all the way home. if you can beat that it's a for sure win imo.
Post by: catastrophe on January 31, 2019, 12:34:12 PM
Post by: chum1 on February 15, 2019, 05:36:23 PM
I picked up a little of this stock like a year in an attempt to buy low. Here's what it's done since. :lol:
EGLTQ
EGALET CORP -97.87%
Is now -99.99% :lol:
Post by: CHONGS on February 15, 2019, 05:38:23 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 15, 2019, 08:13:28 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on February 15, 2019, 08:14:25 PM
Post by: chum1 on March 11, 2019, 06:42:04 PM
I picked up a little of this stock like a year in an attempt to buy low. Here's what it's done since. :lol:
EGLTQ
EGALET CORP -97.87%
Is now -99.99% :lol:
What does this mean???
Quote
EGLT
Quotes are not supported for this symbol
https://m.nasdaq.com/symbol/eglt
Post by: catastrophe on March 12, 2019, 10:58:37 AM
Post by: chum1 on March 12, 2019, 11:50:49 AM
HOLD
I appear to have no choice. Like, there are no links or buttons to click on my investment account page for this particular position. It just looks like this: EGLT 0.0000 :lol:
This has been the most entertaining stock I've ever owned. Investing is fun!
Post by: IPA4Me on March 12, 2019, 12:19:42 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 12, 2019, 12:22:22 PM
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Post by: chum1 on March 12, 2019, 12:29:16 PM
Quote
The Plan provides for, among other things...the cancellation on the Effective Date of all of Egalet Corp.’s common stock and all other equity interests in Egalet Corp.https://marketexclusive.com/egalet-corporation-nasdaqeglt-files-an-8-k-bankruptcy-or-receivership/2019/01/
Post by: Spracne on March 12, 2019, 02:41:41 PM
It took me a while to find (probably mostly because I don't know what I'm doing). Related to the bankruptcy. I'll always fondly remember Egalet Corp. and what a total pos company it was.I smell a securities fraud class action. Chum in the water.QuoteThe Plan provides for, among other things...the cancellation on the Effective Date of all of Egalet Corp.’s common stock and all other equity interests in Egalet Corp.https://marketexclusive.com/egalet-corporation-nasdaqeglt-files-an-8-k-bankruptcy-or-receivership/2019/01/
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Post by: chum1 on March 12, 2019, 02:48:42 PM
Post by: Spracne on March 12, 2019, 02:55:25 PM
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Post by: catastrophe on March 12, 2019, 03:26:59 PM
Post by: sys on March 12, 2019, 03:57:49 PM
I’ve had a couple go belly up.
me too. and btw, if you need to sell some worthless/non-trading stock you can usually call your discount broker and they can do it.
Post by: ben ji on March 12, 2019, 04:48:11 PM
1. I'm not really sure if I can sell it since the $4.50 commission for selling it would eat up all the money.
2. To remind myself not to take investing advice from my dad.
3. Maybe an actual BIG WEED company will but HEMP just for its ticker symbol?
Post by: CHONGS on April 03, 2019, 11:15:05 AM
Post by: DQ12 on April 16, 2019, 12:10:02 PM
UPDATE: Given benji's advice 5 or 6 years ago when this thread started, max'ing out 401(k) contributions (irrespective of employer match) is the way to go prior to getting into the market independently. Thanks and go cats.
Post by: IPA4Me on April 16, 2019, 12:13:12 PM
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Post by: steve dave on April 16, 2019, 01:12:46 PM
should you max out annual IRA and 401(k) contributions before independently getting into the market? I would assume so given the tax benefits.
UPDATE: Given benji's advice 5 or 6 years ago when this thread started, max'ing out 401(k) contributions (irrespective of employer match) is the way to go prior to getting into the market independently. Thanks and go cats.
Nice job
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Post by: BW on April 17, 2019, 11:52:25 AM
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Post by: steve dave on April 17, 2019, 12:06:40 PM
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Post by: ben ji on April 17, 2019, 03:36:42 PM
Only thing I have not fully maxed is my 401k contributions but im hoping max that out this year.
Post by: wetwillie on April 17, 2019, 04:58:22 PM
Post by: IPA4Me on April 17, 2019, 05:09:47 PM
I saved 40% of my after tax/ss/medicare income last year. All into tax sheltered investment accounts (Roth IRA/401k/HSA).Nice. Very nice.
Only thing I have not fully maxed is my 401k contributions but im hoping max that out this year.
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Post by: catastrophe on April 17, 2019, 05:10:50 PM
Recharacterization of Roth IRA seems to be pain in the ass especially in tax season...Any other ways?
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It is def annoying but after you do it the first year you basically just repeat the same thing next year so no biggie.
Post by: ben ji on April 17, 2019, 06:25:53 PM
Talk dirty to me some moreWhat if I told you I have never spent any of my HSA funds and pay all medical expenses out of pocket?
Post by: chum1 on April 17, 2019, 06:33:40 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on April 17, 2019, 06:35:51 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on April 17, 2019, 06:52:51 PM
Here's the thing about retirement savings. By the time you retire, you've pretty much already had all of the fun that you want to have in life. At that point, you're kinda just sittin' around and waiting to die, which doesn't require that much money. So, if you're saving too much for retirement, it's like you're robbing your younger self of fun that your older self has no interest in having.
This is my philosophy as well. Also, due to my lifestyle, I doubt I'll live very long anyway.
Post by: catastrophe on April 17, 2019, 06:58:04 PM
Post by: steve dave on April 17, 2019, 07:07:48 PM
Or you max it out so you can retire while you’re still young enough to do awesome stuff.
Yeah, you’re going to do killer crap in your 40s/50s for sure.
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Post by: wetwillie on April 17, 2019, 07:30:23 PM
Or you max it out so you can retire while you’re still young enough to do awesome stuff.
Yeah, you’re going to do killer crap in your 40s/50s for sure.
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I think someone forgot to tell him about the age you can start withdrawing the money :frown:
Post by: catastrophe on April 17, 2019, 08:46:41 PM
Post by: catastrophe on April 17, 2019, 08:50:39 PM
Post by: Spracne on April 17, 2019, 08:53:04 PM
But yes, my plan also relies on non-restatement investments.
I think you mean non-statutory. Oh man . . .
Post by: wetwillie on April 17, 2019, 08:54:24 PM
Talk dirty to me some moreWhat if I told you I have never spent any of my HSA funds and pay all medical expenses out of pocket?
:love:
Post by: catastrophe on April 17, 2019, 08:59:25 PM
But yes, my plan also relies on non-restatement investments.
I think you mean non-statutory. Oh man . . .
Whoops fraudian slip. Wait, I mean, crap.
Post by: catastrophe on April 17, 2019, 09:04:07 PM
Talk dirty to me some moreWhat if I told you I have never spent any of my HSA funds and pay all medical expenses out of pocket?
:love:
I’ve heard of this but don’t get it. First it’s always a bit risky exploiting a loophole that congress could close anytime over the next 20 years that would mess up the strategy. But also, like the only expense guaranteed to go up when you get older is healthcare. So those funds are definitely getting spent either way.
Post by: ben ji on April 17, 2019, 09:39:39 PM
Talk dirty to me some moreWhat if I told you I have never spent any of my HSA funds and pay all medical expenses out of pocket?
:love:
I’ve heard of this but don’t get it. First it’s always a bit risky exploiting a loophole that congress could close anytime over the next 20 years that would mess up the strategy. But also, like the only expense guaranteed to go up when you get older is healthcare. So those funds are definitely getting spent either way.
Funds you contribute to an HSA (through an employer plan) are not subject to income tax AND not subject to SS/Medicare, this is basically an extra 7%. Funds you contribute to a traditional IRA/401k have SS/Medicare taxes applied. Essentially funds you contribute to your HSA are never taxed by the government in any way until you are old. When you reach a certain age (not going to google it now but its in your 60's) you are eligible for medicare and any funds you still have in your HSA are treated like a traditional IRA.
Scenario - Lets say you are a good looking great smelling KSU grad fresh out of college who is in excellent health and ready to take on the world. You expect to have low medical expenses (basic checkups/minute clinic stuff) for the next 10 years and an extra $3,400 to invest. You could just put that $3400 in a traditional IRA....OR....you could sign up for the HDHP health plan and contribute $3400 a year and invest it which is actually worth around $3655 (no SS/Medicare taken out).
After 10 years (Assuming 7% real growth) your IRA balance would be worth $48,477, your HSA balance would be worth $52,190. Run that simulation out to 20 years and its $143,687 vs $154,857, keeps getting larger after that.
You can also pay medical expenses with funds from your checking/savings account and then reimburse yourself Xfinity years down the road after the money has grown tax free for Xfinity years. Spending 2k on lasik this year? Pay with regular funds and save the receipt and then 20 years from now you can withdraw that 2k from your HSA tax/ss/medicare free, in that 20 years that 2k grew to 7.7k so you netted 5.7k in todays dollars by doing this.
This article explains it pretty well https://www.madfientist.com/ultimate-retirement-account/
Post by: catastrophe on April 17, 2019, 09:47:25 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on April 17, 2019, 09:54:46 PM
Post by: sys on April 17, 2019, 09:56:34 PM
Here's the thing about retirement savings. By the time you retire, you've pretty much already had all of the fun that you want to have in life. At that point, you're kinda just sittin' around and waiting to die, which doesn't require that much money. So, if you're saving too much for retirement, it's like you're robbing your younger self of fun that your older self has no interest in having.
it's a balancing act, for sure.
Post by: ben ji on April 17, 2019, 09:57:11 PM
So at 60-whatever you can withdraw HSA funds either tax free to reimburse previously incurred medical expenses or tax deferred (on the growth) for any other purpose?
You can spend your HSA money on medical expenses, it comes with a debit card....BUT if you spend after tax money (Savings/checking) on health services you can reimburse yourself from the HSA right away or 30 years from now. In that 30 years your money is invested and growing.
Read the article i posted earlier.
Post by: catastrophe on April 17, 2019, 10:06:41 PM
Reading the article it looks like it is treated as tax deferred on growth after 65 for any non-health expenses, so still not a terrible deal.
Post by: ben ji on April 17, 2019, 10:17:31 PM
No I get that’s how it works currently. But it’s clearly a loophole that seems like it could get closed any time before you reimburse yourself.
Reading the article it looks like it is treated as tax deferred on growth after 65, so still not a terrible deal.
Even if they close the loophole that lets you withdraw the funds Xfinity years later you are still able to invest money before it is subject to taxes/SS/Medicare. The funds can also grow tax free while you are young/healthy and can be used later when you are old and have more medical expenses.
HSA's are the perfect investment platform for young healthy people and are not going away. If anything the amount you can contribute to them will increase to help people save for large medical expenses later in life.
Post by: catastrophe on April 18, 2019, 12:36:08 AM
Post by: Brock Landers on April 18, 2019, 10:48:13 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 18, 2019, 10:59:00 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 18, 2019, 10:59:35 AM
Post by: catastrophe on April 18, 2019, 10:59:39 AM
Post by: ben ji on April 18, 2019, 09:19:55 PM
Fresh out of college ben ji and his bro's used to get hammered at the bars in westport then take a cab to Harrahs casino and resort to do a little late night gambling on the riverboats. One night ole ben ji won about $700 playing blackjack (more than he had ever won in his life) and decided that instead of putting it back into his checking account to he would start one of those Roth IRA's had been reading about and begin contributing a couple hundred a month.
8 years later I want to go back and pat myself on the back and say "You've done good ben ji, you've done real good"
Post by: chum1 on May 04, 2019, 08:32:07 AM
Since 2002 +8%
10 year +8%
5 year -1%
1 year -10%
Post by: chum1 on May 04, 2019, 08:54:28 AM
Post by: steve dave on May 04, 2019, 09:53:28 AM
Post by: catastrophe on May 04, 2019, 09:58:03 AM
Post by: steve dave on May 04, 2019, 10:00:23 AM
If that “thing” is the overall market that’s what I do!
yeah, you could do that with one fund. or 500. whatevs. good news is that unless you are paying transaction fees there's really no downside.
Post by: DaBigTrain on May 04, 2019, 10:05:46 AM
Post by: steve dave on May 04, 2019, 10:07:19 AM
Post by: catastrophe on May 04, 2019, 10:27:00 AM
Post by: Spracne on May 04, 2019, 08:12:09 PM
Post by: wetwillie on May 05, 2019, 06:03:53 AM
Around five years ago, I picked five different types of mutual funds for one of my retirement accounts. It's impossible not to notice that one of them is really, REALLY lagging behind the other four. It's meant to be a long term investment, of course, but should I go ahead and dump it anyway because it seems like such a loser "lately?"
Since 2002 +8%
10 year +8%
5 year -1%
1 year -10%
Is it an international fund?
Post by: chum1 on May 05, 2019, 06:38:55 AM
Around five years ago, I picked five different types of mutual funds for one of my retirement accounts. It's impossible not to notice that one of them is really, REALLY lagging behind the other four. It's meant to be a long term investment, of course, but should I go ahead and dump it anyway because it seems like such a loser "lately?"
Since 2002 +8%
10 year +8%
5 year -1%
1 year -10%
Is it an international fund?
Yep
Post by: DaBigTrain on May 13, 2019, 05:36:41 PM
https://twitter.com/cnbcfastmoney/status/1127977803650039808
Post by: chum1 on May 13, 2019, 06:02:26 PM
https://twitter.com/CNBC/status/1127973862371725312
Post by: DaBigTrain on May 13, 2019, 06:23:55 PM
Post by: DQ12 on May 14, 2019, 08:32:38 AM
says he makes his money by splitting the investment fees with the various companies offering the investments so there's very little out of pocket outside of an annual fee (~$50). so that seems relatively low risk, but I can't help but notice an inherent conflict of interest through that compensation structure (i.e. he's incentivized to choose investment vehicles with higher fees).
probably going to go with him anyway.
Post by: Kat Kid on May 14, 2019, 09:32:43 AM
spoke to a financial planner this morning. had some decent, basic advice for my position (buying a house in the next year or so). i'm sure he's smarter than i am in this field, but my main issue was whether his benefit outweighed his cost.
says he makes his money by splitting the investment fees with the various companies offering the investments so there's very little out of pocket outside of an annual fee (~$50). so that seems relatively low risk, but I can't help but notice an inherent conflict of interest through that compensation structure (i.e. he's incentivized to choose investment vehicles with higher fees).
probably going to go with him anyway.
If you need financial planning, get a fee based adviser with fiduciary duty to you.
Post by: steve dave on May 14, 2019, 09:56:27 AM
spoke to a financial planner this morning. had some decent, basic advice for my position (buying a house in the next year or so). i'm sure he's smarter than i am in this field, but my main issue was whether his benefit outweighed his cost.
says he makes his money by splitting the investment fees with the various companies offering the investments so there's very little out of pocket outside of an annual fee (~$50). so that seems relatively low risk, but I can't help but notice an inherent conflict of interest through that compensation structure (i.e. he's incentivized to choose investment vehicles with higher fees).
probably going to go with him anyway.
Mods, please change dlew to annuitycat
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Post by: catastrophe on May 14, 2019, 09:58:15 AM
What kind of advice did they give? I’ve honestly never understood the upside to financial planners other than retirement planning because that math still seems super complex to me.
Post by: ben ji on May 14, 2019, 11:28:14 AM
spoke to a financial planner this morning. had some decent, basic advice for my position (buying a house in the next year or so). i'm sure he's smarter than i am in this field, but my main issue was whether his benefit outweighed his cost.
says he makes his money by splitting the investment fees with the various companies offering the investments so there's very little out of pocket outside of an annual fee (~$50). so that seems relatively low risk, but I can't help but notice an inherent conflict of interest through that compensation structure (i.e. he's incentivized to choose investment vehicles with higher fees).
probably going to go with him anyway.
Did you ask him what the Investment Fee's are on the funds he would invest you in? I'm guessing they are alot, would also ask about any load fees. Even if his "Fee" works out to only 1% it will turn into Hundreds of thousands of dollars over 30 years. If you have $0 invested right now and contribute $1000 a month over the next 30 years that 1% fee will turn into $195,000 less in your account over 30 years.
If you are not already maxing your tax advantaged space (401k/IRA) then do that first before you open any brokerage account with a financial advisor. If you are unsure on what funds to select in your 401k/IRA just post them here or put them in a SP500 Index fund or a target date retirement fund.
IMO the only time an adviser makes sense is after you have accumulated a lot of money and need advice on tax/estate planning strategies.
Post by: steve dave on May 14, 2019, 11:40:02 AM
Source: I live in Omaha
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Post by: Kat Kid on May 14, 2019, 11:47:46 AM
99% of advisors won’t beat Vanguard S&P Admiral shares long term after accounting for costs/fees.
Source: I live in Omaha
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Yeah I absolutely agree with this, but if he is looking for help with financial planning/budgeting that is different.
Post by: steve dave on May 14, 2019, 11:48:52 AM
99% of advisors won’t beat Vanguard S&P Admiral shares long term after accounting for costs/fees.
Source: I live in Omaha
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Yeah I absolutely agree with this, but if he is looking for help with financial planning/budgeting that is different.
for sure. in this scenario he should get that advice and then tell him to put all his coin in vanguard admiral shares.
Post by: steve dave on May 14, 2019, 11:51:49 AM
Post by: IPA4Me on May 14, 2019, 12:14:10 PM
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Post by: Brock Landers on May 14, 2019, 12:26:59 PM
Post by: DQ12 on May 14, 2019, 12:37:15 PM
Post by: catastrophe on May 14, 2019, 01:10:08 PM
Post by: sys on May 14, 2019, 01:21:11 PM
help with financial planning/budgeting that is different.
a little free financial planning and budgeting advice - save as much money as you can. when you have enough, stop working and start spending it.
Post by: chum1 on May 28, 2019, 06:44:02 AM
https://twitter.com/levinecarrie/status/1133323542722940934
Post by: DaBigTrain on July 07, 2019, 06:12:56 PM
https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/1147515796010045440
Post by: ben ji on July 07, 2019, 08:07:28 PM
Post by: catastrophe on July 07, 2019, 09:51:31 PM
Post by: ben ji on August 12, 2019, 11:07:45 AM
Was playing around with some calculators and if I never contributed another $ to my retirement accounts I am projected to be a millionaire in 30 years. (Assumes 7% growth)
Post by: KITNfury on August 13, 2019, 08:10:28 AM
Friendly real world reminder to all you youngish EMAW's that compounding interest is the 8th wonder of the world and you should invest as much as you can as early as you can.This is true. Buy what I tell all youngsters is the first thing they should do is save up to buy a duplex or fourplex as their first house. Most people spend 1/3-1/4 of their income on housing. If you do what I say the right way, you will basically keep most of that money in your pocket, which essentially you're giving yourself a 25-33% raise.
Was playing around with some calculators and if I never contributed another $ to my retirement accounts I am projected to be a millionaire in 30 years. (Assumes 7% growth)
At that point, you can pocket a huge chunk of your income to reinvest. I would recommend reinvesting in real estate, but other investments would work too if you're more comfortable with it. But the numbers are paltry compared to what I've experienced in real estate. Granted, I'm not stock market savvy. Seems like even people that work in that space are hit or miss.
I expect double digits cash on cash return with real estate, hopefully closer to 15%. That excludes the principle pay down, appreciation, and tax benefits. You can't count on appreciation, but the rest of it you can if you run your numbers right.
Post by: DaBigTrain on September 13, 2019, 07:12:20 PM
https://twitter.com/stevekopack/status/1172601684561936384
Post by: Kat Kid on October 07, 2019, 05:41:31 PM
Post by: sys on October 07, 2019, 05:45:26 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on October 07, 2019, 05:48:45 PM
Post by: wetwillie on October 07, 2019, 06:47:13 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on October 07, 2019, 09:12:48 PM
Did not know KK was 65 years old
some of you big shots don't care about potentially saving 6 figures if I do this right?
Post by: IPA4Me on October 07, 2019, 09:24:36 PM
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Post by: Kat Kid on October 07, 2019, 09:26:44 PM
Post by: steve dave on October 07, 2019, 09:45:08 PM
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Post by: Katpappy on October 07, 2019, 10:07:55 PM
Post by: ben ji on October 07, 2019, 10:24:16 PM
Hey guys, serious question(s): Retired and putting my investment in the hands of a Wealth/Financial Adviser Group. Is this a good play or fumble. Would appreciate advice from anyone with experience. TIA
Maybe, maybe they are a fly by night company and will take your money and invest it in a ponzi scheme.
1. Did they guarantee you any rate of return more than 2 or 3%? If so run.
2. Do you know how they are paid? % of assets? Expense ratios on funds, Load fee's etc?
3. What kind of funds will they invest your money in and how does this correlate with your plans/goals?
Even if you decide to go with a adviser you should make sure you are educated enough about the process to understand in a general sense that their plans are aligning with your goals.
Post by: steve dave on October 07, 2019, 10:48:38 PM
Hey guys, serious question(s): Retired and putting my investment in the hands of a Wealth/Financial Adviser Group. Is this a good play or fumble. Would appreciate advice from anyone with experience. TIA
Katdaddy, no
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Post by: Spracne on October 07, 2019, 10:52:07 PM
Hey guys, serious question(s): Retired and putting my investment in the hands of a Wealth/Financial Adviser Group. Is this a good play or fumble. Would appreciate advice from anyone with experience. TIA
Katdaddy, I would like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.com
Post by: catastrophe on October 08, 2019, 05:17:49 PM
some of you just don't have the vision needed for this caper.
Can you explain it? If the market dips and you’re able to avoid touching the money until it comes back up then you come out ahead by leaving it in stocks.
Post by: catastrophe on October 08, 2019, 05:20:32 PM
Hey guys, serious question(s): Retired and putting my investment in the hands of a Wealth/Financial Adviser Group. Is this a good play or fumble. Would appreciate advice from anyone with experience. TIA
Katdaddy, no
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They would need to be well vetted, have a big presence (so less likely to go belly up) and a fiduciary for me to consider this route. That said, I think a robo advisor like Betterment, Wealthfront, or others is a much better play if you want advice on asset allocation and retirement withdrawals based on your goals.
Post by: Kat Kid on October 08, 2019, 05:20:53 PM
some of you just don't have the vision needed for this caper.
Can you explain it? If the market dips and you’re able to avoid touching the money until it comes back up then you come out ahead by leaving it in stocks.
Or I could put it in cash and buy the dip.
Post by: catastrophe on October 08, 2019, 05:28:32 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on October 08, 2019, 07:26:23 PM
Put it in cash? You’re selling the stocks at a high point so that’s all tax deferred gains unless it’s a Roth 401k. You can still buy the dip by switching from one stock to another similar stock. I’m pretty sure you’re just as liquid. Plus you still miss out on dividends during the drop.
I am not going to cash it out, I am going to buy like a money market fund.
Post by: ben ji on October 08, 2019, 07:37:45 PM
I am not going to cash it out, I am going to buy like a money market fund.
The problem with trying to time the Market is you have to be right twice, you have to correctly identify the high and then also correctly identify the low.
Post by: catastrophe on October 08, 2019, 11:34:52 PM
Put it in cash? You’re selling the stocks at a high point so that’s all tax deferred gains unless it’s a Roth 401k. You can still buy the dip by switching from one stock to another similar stock. I’m pretty sure you’re just as liquid. Plus you still miss out on dividends during the drop.
I am not going to cash it out, I am going to buy like a money market fund.
I STILL DONT UNDERSTAND
Post by: sys on October 09, 2019, 12:17:38 AM
money doesn't leave the 401k.
Post by: TheProdigiousTalent on October 09, 2019, 02:46:34 AM
I tried it once when I was convinced the market couldn't rise further and ended up losing out on enough gains (over months) to buy a really nice car. Got back in, but those losses are still compounding, amigo. I'll take it to my grave (urn, actually; fortunately, this seems to be the one mistake my wife has forgotten).
WWJBD (what would John Bogle do)? Set it and forget it, methinks.
Edit: Keep in mind that your 401k provider surely has frequent trading limitations, though it doesn't sound like you're gonna go wild with this thing.
Post by: TheProdigiousTalent on October 09, 2019, 03:11:42 AM
Post by: steve dave on October 09, 2019, 06:04:33 AM
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Post by: KITNfury on October 09, 2019, 07:30:05 AM
OTOH, human emotion is pretty illogical (loss aversion is real), and I can't see this effing market going up much more (only the 2nd time I've had this feeling!), so you could sell, man. Election year, etc. If you time this thing, it could become your favorite story and eliminate any yearnings you might have to do other cool stuff in life (whether that's good or bad is up to you, amigo). Food for thought.From what I've read, studies have proven humans are more scared of losing that motivated by gaining. Primary reason most people work until they're 65 +. Some people legitimately love their job, as in they would do it even if they didn't need the money, but most people work because they have to.
Post by: catastrophe on October 09, 2019, 08:25:21 AM
he wants to sell his wife's stocks now because he thinks they will go down in price in the near future and he can then use the money to buy more shares of the same stocks than she has now because the stocks will be cheaper.
money doesn't leave the 401k.
Ah, ok. Yeah, it could work if you time it right, although I guess that’s always the rub for stocks.
Post by: ben ji on October 09, 2019, 09:41:35 AM
I was yolo'n at 100% equities since I graduated but have been moving to 20% bonds over the past year.
Post by: Kat Kid on October 27, 2019, 10:46:36 AM
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-federal-reserve-is-in-stealth-intervention-mode-2019-10-25 (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-federal-reserve-is-in-stealth-intervention-mode-2019-10-25)
Post by: Kat Kid on October 27, 2019, 10:57:51 AM
Post by: sys on October 27, 2019, 01:16:03 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on October 27, 2019, 01:28:09 PM
Transferred everything from VFIFX (90% stocks/10% bonds) to VTINX (30% stocks/70% bonds).
Wait and see time.
Post by: sys on October 27, 2019, 01:30:07 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on October 27, 2019, 01:33:52 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on October 27, 2019, 01:34:28 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on October 27, 2019, 01:35:44 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on October 27, 2019, 01:39:58 PM
Should have bought Bitcoin. smdh
there's something that doesn't have a lot of volatility.
Post by: sys on October 27, 2019, 02:12:02 PM
You are too cowardly to see things as they are and act.
:)
in this decisive moment of truth, i have the courage of my convictions, to see clearly, to speak honestly and to act decisively, doing the right thing for this country while there is still time to do the right thing for this country.
by which, i mean i'm gonna put some money in canadian energy. seems cheap.
Post by: Kat Kid on December 11, 2019, 02:29:58 PM
here we go....
Post by: catastrophe on December 11, 2019, 04:30:29 PM
Post by: slackcat on January 31, 2020, 05:52:42 AM
Post by: slackcat on January 31, 2020, 06:45:25 AM
Post by: mocat on January 31, 2020, 06:50:37 AM
Should've shorted beans. :angry:Right before the super bowl?
Post by: catastrophe on February 20, 2020, 11:07:42 PM
Anyone have advice on Vanguard funds? I think I found some that I like, just still don't really understand how much I should worry about diversifying when it comes to index funds. Right now I'm mostly in VXUS, VTI, VOO, and VIMAX, FWIW.
Post by: michigancat on February 20, 2020, 11:15:26 PM
So I've crunched at the numbers and my Vanguard funds are outperforming my stuff in Betterment after a couple of years. Not by much, but enough to make me feel like I don't need to pay the .25% management fee on everything I invest.
Anyone have advice on Vanguard funds? I think I found some that I like, just still don't really understand how much I should worry about diversifying when it comes to index funds. Right now I'm mostly in VXUS, VTI, VOO, and VIMAX, FWIW.
Depends on how much and what it's for. I mean vanguard's target index funds basically do what betterment does at a lower expense ratio. My company uses Betterment for our 401k and it seems like a rip off.
Post by: michigancat on February 20, 2020, 11:19:20 PM
We've pretty much maxed out our annual retirement investments and just paid off big student loans and aren't sure if it would be a good idea to try to save for a down payment on a stupid million dollar house in the Bay or do something else with the excess. Or should I just make myself spend the time to figure it out myself
Post by: steve dave on February 21, 2020, 06:44:40 AM
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Post by: catastrophe on February 21, 2020, 07:11:10 AM
So I've crunched at the numbers and my Vanguard funds are outperforming my stuff in Betterment after a couple of years. Not by much, but enough to make me feel like I don't need to pay the .25% management fee on everything I invest.
Anyone have advice on Vanguard funds? I think I found some that I like, just still don't really understand how much I should worry about diversifying when it comes to index funds. Right now I'm mostly in VXUS, VTI, VOO, and VIMAX, FWIW.
Depends on how much and what it's for. I mean vanguard's target index funds basically do what betterment does at a lower expense ratio. My company uses Betterment for our 401k and it seems like a rip off.
Betterment has some tools I really like, so I’m not ditching it entirely. Just hoping to come up with a game plan of an asset mix I like for DIY investing. I’m hoping to be able to start relying on investment gains as my main source of income in about 15 years or so, so I think I need to start focusing more on bonds (been 100% stocks up to this point).
Post by: steve dave on February 21, 2020, 07:13:47 AM
Post by: catastrophe on February 21, 2020, 07:28:31 AM
I'm thinking about hiring a financial advisor. Fee based fiduciary. Should I?
We've pretty much maxed out our annual retirement investments and just paid off big student loans and aren't sure if it would be a good idea to try to save for a down payment on a stupid million dollar house in the Bay or do something else with the excess. Or should I just make myself spend the time to figure it out myself
SD is right, and navigating these accounts is a little passion of mine. Here are the accounts I would make sure to take advantage of before using a regular taxable account or just fun money (more or less in order of priority):
1. HSA [$7k max for family plans]
2. Pre-tax 401(k) (or Roth 401(k) depending on income) [$19k max]
3. Post-tax 401(k) (if your employer offers it) (this is different than a Roth) [additional $38k above the $19k I think?]
4. IRA (or Roth IRA depending on income) [$6k]
5. 529 for the kids (if applicable) [$300k total max (don't do that much); careful about gift tax junk which kicks in after like $13k/year]
6. Some kind of low-risk safety net (money you can use for big unexpected expenses--I'd keep it in a low risk/bond heavy portfolio rather than high interest checking, but not a huge difference)
#3 and #4 can be backdoored into a Roth IRA with very little consequences. If your employer offers Post-tax 401(k) AND in-plan Roth conversions you definitely need to take advantage of it. Like SD said, if you make too much to contribute to a Roth IRA directly, just contribute to a regular IRA and then immediately convert it. It's a stupid rule, but the IRA and Congress have blessed this as pretty much totally legit, so any of the major account providers give you simple instructions for doing the conversion.
After those accounts, it's really just a personal preference thing. I want to retire when I'm still healthy enough to do fun things, so a lot of my excess goes into a regular investment account for that purpose. But I don't fault anyone who would rather plan on a comfortable 60-65 year retirement and just have fun with what is left.
Post by: DaBigTrain on February 21, 2020, 07:33:30 AM
Post by: catastrophe on February 21, 2020, 07:36:50 AM
if you subscribe to the sd kk newsletter text message chain you'd know there were high level insider wallstreet types that are already making some moves to protect their assets from the inevitable bernie sanders driven market collapse.
Would like to know the super secret strategies. Although I don't wanna mess with trying to time the market.
Post by: steve dave on February 21, 2020, 07:48:40 AM
if you subscribe to the sd kk newsletter text message chain you'd know there were high level insider wallstreet types that are already making some moves to protect their assets from the inevitable bernie sanders driven market collapse.
Would like to know the super secret strategies. Although I don't wanna mess with trying to time the market.
well you're out of luck, because that's 100% of what this is!
Post by: michigancat on February 21, 2020, 07:51:25 AM
Don’t pay some advisor. You’ll get the same quality of advice here. You blowing out some 529s after maxing out the tax deferred retirement plans? You want to wild out and backdoor a Roth before some lib gets in and shuts down that option?
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I don't know which to do which is the point!!!
Post by: steve dave on February 21, 2020, 07:55:34 AM
Don’t pay some advisor. You’ll get the same quality of advice here. You blowing out some 529s after maxing out the tax deferred retirement plans? You want to wild out and backdoor a Roth before some lib gets in and shuts down that option?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't know which to do which is the point!!!
an advisor can't help you make that decision any more than someone here can. if you want my personal opinion it's always max out the individual tax advantaged retirement options before the 529s. you can always take out almost interest free loans for your kids education if it comes to it but you don't have any other options for your own retirement.
Post by: catastrophe on February 21, 2020, 07:56:43 AM
Don’t pay some advisor. You’ll get the same quality of advice here. You blowing out some 529s after maxing out the tax deferred retirement plans? You want to wild out and backdoor a Roth before some lib gets in and shuts down that option?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't know which to do which is the point!!!
The common wisdom is to prioritize retirement accounts over kids' college. The main reason is that your retirement accounts do not typically count against them for purposes of financial aid, but 529s do.
Post by: ben ji on February 21, 2020, 08:33:16 AM
Good thing we got some trump money to even things out.
Post by: Kat Kid on February 21, 2020, 08:59:53 AM
if you subscribe to the sd kk newsletter text message chain you'd know there were high level insider wallstreet types that are already making some moves to protect their assets from the inevitable bernie sanders driven market collapse.
Would like to know the super secret strategies. Although I don't wanna mess with trying to time the market.
well you're out of luck, because that's 100% of what this is!
:lol:
Post by: michigancat on February 21, 2020, 09:32:17 AM
Don’t pay some advisor. You’ll get the same quality of advice here. You blowing out some 529s after maxing out the tax deferred retirement plans? You want to wild out and backdoor a Roth before some lib gets in and shuts down that option?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't know which to do which is the point!!!
an advisor can't help you make that decision any more than someone here can. if you want my personal opinion it's always max out the individual tax advantaged retirement options before the 529s. you can always take out almost interest free loans for your kids education if it comes to it but you don't have any other options for your own retirement.
Yes and there is also the home ownership question. Like it would be nice but I don't NEED to own. Like am I better off investing the money that would be tied up saving for a ridiculous down payment? I DON'T KNOW
Post by: steve dave on February 21, 2020, 09:40:21 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on February 21, 2020, 09:43:40 AM
like, what are you wanting some paid financial dork to tell you about that? as a free service providing dork I'll tell you that: you've moved around some already, you live in a stupid home market, you aren't afraid of relocating somewhere midwestern/cheap if the opportunity presents itself, how and where we work is evolving pretty fast so you may not have to live in that place unless you want to at some point, so you should not buy a home right now. But I'm just some guy that doesn't know what you plan on doing for the rest of your life.
You would be insane to buy in to a SF housing market that is that expensive. This isn't hard.
Invest the money in tax advantaged accounts and then invest it in non-tax advantaged if you still have extra.
Post by: catastrophe on February 21, 2020, 09:49:38 AM
Post by: meow meow on February 21, 2020, 09:50:40 AM
Post by: chum1 on February 21, 2020, 09:56:14 AM
You would be insane to buy in to a SF housing market that is that expensive.
Couldn't you have said the same at any point in the past 100 years? And it's been a great investment in the past. Why would that change?
Post by: chum1 on February 21, 2020, 10:01:09 AM
Scenario B: cost of downpayment + cost of mortgage for the next 30ish years
I'd guess it's probably close to a wash. But I'd love to see an attempt at a detailed calculation!
Post by: chum1 on February 21, 2020, 10:03:40 AM
Post by: steve dave on February 21, 2020, 10:06:41 AM
Post by: catastrophe on February 21, 2020, 10:07:06 AM
Still, SD’s point is a good one. There are transactional costs with buying and selling, and if you think there’s a good chance of moving in a few years it might not be a great idea. I’m sure California has pretty bad property taxes too.
Post by: ben ji on February 21, 2020, 10:10:25 AM
Scenario A: cost of rent for the rest of your life - gains from investing downpayment amount
Scenario B: cost of downpayment + cost of mortgage for the next 30ish years
I'd guess it's probably close to a wash. But I'd love to see an attempt at a detailed calculation!
Scenario C: Keep renting and making phat SF money then move back to KS and get a hobby farm with all the money you've made/invested and get on the government money train and possibly acquire a couple of cats from ben ji's dad.
Post by: meow meow on February 21, 2020, 10:14:59 AM
Post by: steve dave on February 21, 2020, 10:15:45 AM
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Post by: chum1 on February 21, 2020, 11:13:01 AM
prop tax
This alone might tip the scale toward renting in a place like SF.
Post by: OB_Won on February 21, 2020, 11:53:22 AM
Post by: michigancat on February 21, 2020, 12:43:32 PM
like, what are you wanting some paid financial dork to tell you about that? as a free service providing dork I'll tell you that: you've moved around some already, you live in a stupid home market, you aren't afraid of relocating somewhere midwestern/cheap if the opportunity presents itself, how and where we work is evolving pretty fast so you may not have to live in that place unless you want to at some point, so you should not buy a home right now. But I'm just some guy that doesn't know what you plan on doing for the rest of your life.
you did a great job here. Also we've been here 8 years(!)
I think a house in an overpriced market generally sucks -AS- an investment, but it’s not like you’re avoiding that much in expenses by renting in an overpriced market instead of buying. Rent is basically just mortgage + passing along the taxes, insurance, and maintenance.
Still, SD’s point is a good one. There are transactional costs with buying and selling, and if you think there’s a good chance of moving in a few years it might not be a great idea. I’m sure California has pretty bad property taxes too.
I've done a few of those rent vs. buy calculators and it's basically a tie depending on the exact value of the house
You would be insane to buy in to a SF housing market that is that expensive.
Couldn't you have said the same at any point in the past 100 years? And it's been a great investment in the past. Why would that change?
I have a hard time thinking the market will ever significantly soften in the long term. I suppose if Apple and Facebook and Google got split up and hit crazy hard times maybe? But even then I think it would come back in a serious way when you look at 2000 and 2008
Post by: michigancat on February 21, 2020, 12:45:25 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on February 21, 2020, 12:55:24 PM
I think I've said this before, I've long had the thought of saving for a down payment out here and instead just use it to basically pay cash for a house in somewhere like KC instead. But haven't really been close to maxing out the tax advantage stuff until recently.
If you have rented for the past 2 years you are allowed to withdraw up to $10,000 of investment earnings from a Roth IRA with no tax or penalty for a down payment.
So you will already have part of a down payment if you really need it by maxing retirement + Roth. Having savings is fine, but holding too much cash is probably not smart unless you think the market is going to crash, in which case it is actually very smart.
Post by: catastrophe on February 21, 2020, 01:01:36 PM
Even if you time a crash right, the gains you sacrificed waiting for the crash to happen could end up wiping out the ones you cash in on if you were waiting long enough
Post by: michigancat on February 21, 2020, 01:14:16 PM
We actually just moved to a larger place that costs $10k/year more than the old plaxe. We looked at how adding $10-20k to a down payment would impact monthly mortgage payments and it was laughably small so we moved.I think I've said this before, I've long had the thought of saving for a down payment out here and instead just use it to basically pay cash for a house in somewhere like KC instead. But haven't really been close to maxing out the tax advantage stuff until recently.
If you have rented for the past 2 years you are allowed to withdraw up to $10,000 of investment earnings from a Roth IRA with no tax or penalty for a down payment.
So you will already have part of a down payment if you really need it by maxing retirement + Roth. Having savings is fine, but holding too much cash is probably not smart unless you think the market is going to crash, in which case it is actually very smart.
I think I've convinced myself that we just need to pump more into tax advantaged accounts and keep renting and not hire someone.
Post by: meow meow on February 21, 2020, 01:17:55 PM
Post by: sys on February 21, 2020, 02:09:46 PM
I'm thinking about hiring a financial advisor.
good grief, michigancat. it's not complicated. just save as much money as you possibly can. either you'll use it when you're older or you'll give it to your children when you die.
Post by: chum1 on February 21, 2020, 02:18:28 PM
Post by: sys on February 21, 2020, 02:21:15 PM
I’m sure California has pretty bad property taxes too.
lol, no. but the system is set up to make the michigancats of the world subsidize the rest of us, so it's kinda fun.
incidentally, on the buying a home thing, i don't have a view on the directionality of bay area housing prices, but there's really no other investment vehicle the average american can/will use to make stupid money with little risk. lifestyle and moving and all that should factor in, but the govt wants you to make money by owning a house and unless you think that is likely to change, you should probably take advantage.
Post by: sys on February 21, 2020, 02:25:40 PM
I've long had the thought of saving for a down payment out here and instead just use it to basically pay cash for a house in somewhere like KC instead.
no, that's dumb.
Post by: star seed 7 on February 21, 2020, 02:28:18 PM
Everyone's situation is different, but I'm completely against maxing out tax advantaged options. The amount I save for retirement is determined solely by maintaining standard of living. I will have more fun with extra money now than when I am retired. I have no doubt about that.
:cheers:
Also I doubt I will live long past retirement, or at least I hope I won't.
Post by: catastrophe on February 21, 2020, 02:34:39 PM
Everyone's situation is different, but I'm completely against maxing out tax advantaged options. The amount I save for retirement is determined solely by maintaining standard of living. I will have more fun with extra money now than when I am retired. I have no doubt about that.
:cheers:
Also I doubt I will live long past retirement, or at least I hope I won't.
It's a fair mindset to have, but also a good reason to at least hit your yearly max on retirement accounts when you're younger. The money will grow exponentially, and you'll have a better shot at retiring at 59.5, which is probably quite a bit better than 65 or whatever if you want to enjoy yourself with some healthy years left.
Post by: michigancat on February 21, 2020, 02:44:09 PM
Thanks for the tipI've long had the thought of saving for a down payment out here and instead just use it to basically pay cash for a house in somewhere like KC instead.
no, that's dumb.
Post by: sys on February 21, 2020, 02:51:27 PM
Post by: michigancat on February 21, 2020, 03:00:24 PM
Post by: OB_Won on February 21, 2020, 03:00:50 PM
Nuclear war and mass plague aside, with advancements in AI and machine learning, I suspect many people will live to be over 100. That's a LONG time to go without income.Everyone's situation is different, but I'm completely against maxing out tax advantaged options. The amount I save for retirement is determined solely by maintaining standard of living. I will have more fun with extra money now than when I am retired. I have no doubt about that.
:cheers:
Also I doubt I will live long past retirement, or at least I hope I won't.
It's a fair mindset to have, but also a good reason to at least hit your yearly max on retirement accounts when you're younger. The money will grow exponentially, and you'll have a better shot at retiring at 59.5, which is probably quite a bit better than 65 or whatever if you want to enjoy yourself with some healthy years left.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on February 21, 2020, 03:03:55 PM
Post by: meow meow on February 21, 2020, 03:14:08 PM
Post by: ben ji on February 21, 2020, 03:17:59 PM
i would assume people maximizing their tax advantaged accounts are doing so because they have good jobs/make mad stacks/and are therefore, already buying whatever they want when they want anyway
I just don't want to work until I'm in my 60's and tax advantaged accounts are the most efficient way to save money.
Post by: mocat on February 21, 2020, 04:20:59 PM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 21, 2020, 04:29:49 PM
Nuclear war and mass plague aside, with advancements in AI and machine learning, I suspect many people will live to be over 100. That's a LONG time to go without income.Everyone's situation is different, but I'm completely against maxing out tax advantaged options. The amount I save for retirement is determined solely by maintaining standard of living. I will have more fun with extra money now than when I am retired. I have no doubt about that.
:cheers:
Also I doubt I will live long past retirement, or at least I hope I won't.
It's a fair mindset to have, but also a good reason to at least hit your yearly max on retirement accounts when you're younger. The money will grow exponentially, and you'll have a better shot at retiring at 59.5, which is probably quite a bit better than 65 or whatever if you want to enjoy yourself with some healthy years left.
That only sounds appealing to me if I am still mobile and healthy. Living 20 or more years in some sort of assisted living situation would be a hard nope.
Post by: OB_Won on February 22, 2020, 12:06:12 AM
Agreed, but most humans choose life when actually posed with the question. I guess if you're capable of suicide than you'll have options.Nuclear war and mass plague aside, with advancements in AI and machine learning, I suspect many people will live to be over 100. That's a LONG time to go without income.Everyone's situation is different, but I'm completely against maxing out tax advantaged options. The amount I save for retirement is determined solely by maintaining standard of living. I will have more fun with extra money now than when I am retired. I have no doubt about that.
:cheers:
Also I doubt I will live long past retirement, or at least I hope I won't.
It's a fair mindset to have, but also a good reason to at least hit your yearly max on retirement accounts when you're younger. The money will grow exponentially, and you'll have a better shot at retiring at 59.5, which is probably quite a bit better than 65 or whatever if you want to enjoy yourself with some healthy years left.
That only sounds appealing to me if I am still mobile and healthy. Living 20 or more years in some sort of assisted living situation would be a hard nope.
However, medicine will improve exponentially under AI. It already has in the computer age. AI can examine data to spot trends, improve research, speed diagnosis, remap dna, design new drugs, grow healthy tissue, grow cartilage, etc. The possibilities are hard to fathom.
Ive also read some believe that AI will supplement a work week. Meaning humans wont need to work 40-60 hrs per week. Some speculate govt policy would subsidize humans to offset profit increase of business. Ie you'd still make same salary but only work 15-20 hours a week.
Post by: meow meow on February 24, 2020, 08:42:04 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on February 24, 2020, 08:43:57 AM
Post by: steve dave on February 24, 2020, 08:48:16 AM
if you subscribe to the sd kk newsletter text message chain you'd know there were high level insider wallstreet types that are already making some moves to protect their assets from the inevitable bernie sanders driven market collapse.
Would like to know the super secret strategies. Although I don't wanna mess with trying to time the market.
well you're out of luck, because that's 100% of what this is!
THE HATERS WILL SAY IT’S PHOTOSHOP
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Post by: Kat Kid on February 24, 2020, 09:36:18 AM
Did I predict the market crash? YES
Post by: star seed 7 on February 24, 2020, 09:43:36 AM
Buy high, that's my motto
Post by: IPA4Me on February 24, 2020, 10:50:25 AM
Post by: meow meow on February 24, 2020, 10:58:21 AM
Post by: DQ12 on February 24, 2020, 12:39:26 PM
Post by: Spracne on February 24, 2020, 01:01:23 PM
Post by: Brock Landers on February 24, 2020, 01:13:00 PM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 24, 2020, 01:13:16 PM
Post by: michigancat on February 24, 2020, 01:16:50 PM
Post by: meow meow on February 24, 2020, 01:40:35 PM
Post by: Fedor on February 24, 2020, 01:52:27 PM
Post by: Brock Landers on February 24, 2020, 02:14:59 PM
Post by: WillieWatanabe on February 24, 2020, 02:24:02 PM
Post by: Fedor on February 24, 2020, 03:24:12 PM
Why hire a management company when the going rate for a property manager is only $28 per month?:dubious:
Post by: 8manpick on February 24, 2020, 03:26:52 PM
That's a reference, but I can't quite remember what toWhy hire a management company when the going rate for a property manager is only $28 per month?:dubious:
Post by: catastrophe on February 24, 2020, 05:23:33 PM
Did I predict the coronavirus? NO
Did I predict the market crash? YES
So did you buy?
Post by: ben ji on February 24, 2020, 07:51:28 PM
Did I predict the coronavirus? NO
Did I predict the market crash? YES
FYI the SP 500 is still higher than it was on Jan 31st.
Post by: Kat Kid on February 25, 2020, 01:23:30 PM
Did I predict the coronavirus? NO
Did I predict the market crash? YES
FYI the SP 500 is still higher than it was on Jan 31st.
Oh I know. Long way to go.
Post by: sys on February 25, 2020, 04:49:59 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 25, 2020, 05:21:18 PM
Post by: KITNfury on February 25, 2020, 07:54:30 PM
Midwest rental properties, hire a management company to run them. No effort on your part after the empire is established.You always need to manage the manager, so it's never completely passive unless you're investing in something like a syndication. In any event, performance should be reviewed regularly no matter what RE type you're investing in.
But I suggested something similar many pages ago without much interest. It's not for everybody so I sort of understand. But the advantageous are very numerous over any other investment that I know of. It's done well for me, I plan to retire before I'm 40...by replacing my income, not building a nest egg. And "retire" just means quit corporate job and do what I want, when I want but I'll still need to do something. Probably continue to build real estate portfolio business. We'll see, nothing is certain.
Post by: sys on February 25, 2020, 09:20:25 PM
what was on sale sys? :drool:
i don't know that they were great buys or great prices, but i bought a lot of different stuff, largest purchases were fedex, compania cervecerias unidas and an emerging markets index etf.
not sure exactly but today's purchases were probably close to 10% of my total portfolio - more than i would have intended, but i had a bunch of limit orders that got hit.
Post by: steve dave on February 26, 2020, 07:51:14 AM
Post by: steve dave on February 26, 2020, 07:52:09 AM
Post by: Fedor on February 26, 2020, 08:59:58 AM
Are you FIRE?Midwest rental properties, hire a management company to run them. No effort on your part after the empire is established.You always need to manage the manager, so it's never completely passive unless you're investing in something like a syndication. In any event, performance should be reviewed regularly no matter what RE type you're investing in.
But I suggested something similar many pages ago without much interest. It's not for everybody so I sort of understand. But the advantageous are very numerous over any other investment that I know of. It's done well for me, I plan to retire before I'm 40...by replacing my income, not building a nest egg. And "retire" just means quit corporate job and do what I want, when I want but I'll still need to do something. Probably continue to build real estate portfolio business. We'll see, nothing is certain.
Post by: catastrophe on February 26, 2020, 09:19:54 AM
Post by: catastrophe on February 26, 2020, 09:23:16 AM
Midwest rental properties, hire a management company to run them. No effort on your part after the empire is established.You always need to manage the manager, so it's never completely passive unless you're investing in something like a syndication. In any event, performance should be reviewed regularly no matter what RE type you're investing in.
But I suggested something similar many pages ago without much interest. It's not for everybody so I sort of understand. But the advantageous are very numerous over any other investment that I know of. It's done well for me, I plan to retire before I'm 40...by replacing my income, not building a nest egg. And "retire" just means quit corporate job and do what I want, when I want but I'll still need to do something. Probably continue to build real estate portfolio business. We'll see, nothing is certain.
I keep thinking about the real estate angle, but I’ve never gotten confident that it would get me better than a 7% IRR if done completely passively. I like to nerd out on playing the tax game with different investment vehicles, but owning and managing property does nothing for me.
Post by: KITNfury on February 26, 2020, 03:10:21 PM
I didn't hear that acronym until after I started planning for it, but yea I guess so.Are you FIRE?Midwest rental properties, hire a management company to run them. No effort on your part after the empire is established.You always need to manage the manager, so it's never completely passive unless you're investing in something like a syndication. In any event, performance should be reviewed regularly no matter what RE type you're investing in.
But I suggested something similar many pages ago without much interest. It's not for everybody so I sort of understand. But the advantageous are very numerous over any other investment that I know of. It's done well for me, I plan to retire before I'm 40...by replacing my income, not building a nest egg. And "retire" just means quit corporate job and do what I want, when I want but I'll still need to do something. Probably continue to build real estate portfolio business. We'll see, nothing is certain.
Post by: KITNfury on February 26, 2020, 03:16:15 PM
7% IRR would be a pretty mundane deal even if paying a manager.Midwest rental properties, hire a management company to run them. No effort on your part after the empire is established.You always need to manage the manager, so it's never completely passive unless you're investing in something like a syndication. In any event, performance should be reviewed regularly no matter what RE type you're investing in.
But I suggested something similar many pages ago without much interest. It's not for everybody so I sort of understand. But the advantageous are very numerous over any other investment that I know of. It's done well for me, I plan to retire before I'm 40...by replacing my income, not building a nest egg. And "retire" just means quit corporate job and do what I want, when I want but I'll still need to do something. Probably continue to build real estate portfolio business. We'll see, nothing is certain.
I keep thinking about the real estate angle, but I’ve never gotten confident that it would get me better than a 7% IRR if done completely passively. I like to nerd out on playing the tax game with different investment vehicles, but owning and managing property does nothing for me.
I have some that are managed by a manager and some that I do myself. The stuff I self manage I did a cash out refinance on a while back. Very little money left of mine into that deal. I get around 60% of my cash invest back each year. I've already returned my investment back to myself, so technically it's infinite return at this point.
The stuff I have a manager handle is still being stabilized. Some work needed done, rents raised, etc. I should get anywhere between 12-18% cash on cash return from those. However, IRR would be much higher after tax savings, principle pay down, etc.
But like I said, it's not as hands off as dropping money in the market so I know it's not for everyone. But I hate my job (and frankly it's a pretty good place to work) so I want out so bad it doesn't matter. I'll do what I have to. But I also like acquiring real estate. Not everything is perfect about it tho. But when building a business, which is what it eventually becomes if you grow, you start to hand off things you don't like to do.
Post by: Brock Landers on February 26, 2020, 03:21:02 PM
That's a reference, but I can't quite remember what toWhy hire a management company when the going rate for a property manager is only $28 per month?:dubious:
Forgot to go back and look, but here it is :D
I've heard property managers typically work at 1% of rent collected. Let's be conservative again and say 2% = $28/month.
Post by: catastrophe on February 26, 2020, 03:32:18 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 28, 2020, 09:08:35 AM
Did I predict the coronavirus? NO
Did I predict the market crash? YES
FYI the SP 500 is still higher than it was on Jan 31st.
need an update here :drool:
Post by: IPA4Me on February 28, 2020, 09:17:27 AM
Post by: chum1 on February 28, 2020, 09:20:40 AM
Post by: catastrophe on February 28, 2020, 09:23:44 AM
Post by: bucket on February 28, 2020, 09:26:52 AM
Pushed a farm into the market yesterday. Buy the dip, yo.
Did this and I'm taking a bath today.
Post by: IPA4Me on February 28, 2020, 09:30:20 AM
I rolled a 401K late last year. Been feeding it slowly into the market expecting a dip.
Post by: ben ji on February 28, 2020, 10:35:05 AM
Did I predict the coronavirus? NO
Did I predict the market crash? YES
FYI the SP 500 is still higher than it was on Jan 31st.
need an update here :drool:
PANIC!!! (And then realize the SP 500 will likely be much higher than 3200 when I retire so whatever)
Post by: michigancat on March 04, 2020, 06:52:29 PM
I'm thinking about hiring a financial advisor. Fee based fiduciary. Should I?
We've pretty much maxed out our annual retirement investments and just paid off big student loans and aren't sure if it would be a good idea to try to save for a down payment on a stupid million dollar house in the Bay or do something else with the excess. Or should I just make myself spend the time to figure it out myself
we ended up hiring a guy. I'm sure I could have done it all myself but it would have taken a lot of time I don't have or want to use scouring nerdwallet or whatever. I IRL compared it in my head to steve dave paying people to mow his lawn and shovel snow and hang up christmas lights and stuff so he can use that time elsewhere. we get good advice here but I'm not gonna post my pay stubs and talk about real in depth life details to get advice catered to my specific situation here. also candidly my wife doesn't like me telling her what to do so it's nice to have someone else tell both of us what to do at the same time.
Post by: steve dave on March 04, 2020, 06:58:51 PM
I'm thinking about hiring a financial advisor. Fee based fiduciary. Should I?
We've pretty much maxed out our annual retirement investments and just paid off big student loans and aren't sure if it would be a good idea to try to save for a down payment on a stupid million dollar house in the Bay or do something else with the excess. Or should I just make myself spend the time to figure it out myself
we ended up hiring a guy. I'm sure I could have done it all myself but it would have taken a lot of time I don't have or want to use scouring nerdwallet or whatever. I IRL compared it in my head to steve dave paying people to mow his lawn and shovel snow and hang up christmas lights and stuff so he can use that time elsewhere. we get good advice here but I'm not gonna post my pay stubs and talk about real in depth life details to get advice catered to my specific situation here. also candidly my wife doesn't like me telling her what to do so it's nice to have someone else tell both of us what to do at the same time.
ask your guy how much I should charge you for rent IN YOUR BRAIN. LMAOooooooooooo.
irl probably a good decision. I enjoy thinking and doing that stuff and other people enjoy mowing their lawns. time is the most valuable asset we have.
Post by: ben ji on March 04, 2020, 10:45:01 PM
I'm thinking about hiring a financial advisor. Fee based fiduciary. Should I?
We've pretty much maxed out our annual retirement investments and just paid off big student loans and aren't sure if it would be a good idea to try to save for a down payment on a stupid million dollar house in the Bay or do something else with the excess. Or should I just make myself spend the time to figure it out myself
we ended up hiring a guy. I'm sure I could have done it all myself but it would have taken a lot of time I don't have or want to use scouring nerdwallet or whatever. I IRL compared it in my head to steve dave paying people to mow his lawn and shovel snow and hang up christmas lights and stuff so he can use that time elsewhere. we get good advice here but I'm not gonna post my pay stubs and talk about real in depth life details to get advice catered to my specific situation here. also candidly my wife doesn't like me telling her what to do so it's nice to have someone else tell both of us what to do at the same time.
Sometimes its good to hire a guy. For example...the first year after my dad got the cat ranch he did his own taxes and couldn't figure out why he had such a high tax bill.
The next year he hired a guy who specializes in cat ranch/farm taxes and BOOM, barely owed any money on taxes.
Post by: michigancat on March 04, 2020, 11:10:44 PM
Your dad and I have a lot in commonI'm thinking about hiring a financial advisor. Fee based fiduciary. Should I?
We've pretty much maxed out our annual retirement investments and just paid off big student loans and aren't sure if it would be a good idea to try to save for a down payment on a stupid million dollar house in the Bay or do something else with the excess. Or should I just make myself spend the time to figure it out myself
we ended up hiring a guy. I'm sure I could have done it all myself but it would have taken a lot of time I don't have or want to use scouring nerdwallet or whatever. I IRL compared it in my head to steve dave paying people to mow his lawn and shovel snow and hang up christmas lights and stuff so he can use that time elsewhere. we get good advice here but I'm not gonna post my pay stubs and talk about real in depth life details to get advice catered to my specific situation here. also candidly my wife doesn't like me telling her what to do so it's nice to have someone else tell both of us what to do at the same time.
Sometimes its good to hire a guy. For example...the first year after my dad got the cat ranch he did his own taxes and couldn't figure out why he had such a high tax bill.
The next year he hired a guy who specializes in cat ranch/farm taxes and BOOM, barely owed any money on taxes.
Post by: sys on March 05, 2020, 02:43:58 PM
candidly my wife doesn't like me telling her what to do so it's nice to have someone else tell both of us what to do at the same time.
i'm pretty fortunate that i could lose half our retirement savings in the market and my wife would never notice. pretty sure it affects my investment style (although not necessarily for the better).
Post by: steve dave on March 05, 2020, 02:53:46 PM
candidly my wife doesn't like me telling her what to do so it's nice to have someone else tell both of us what to do at the same time.
i'm pretty fortunate that i could lose half our retirement savings in the market and my wife would never notice. pretty sure it affects my investment style (although not necessarily for the better).
Same, my wife has no idea how much money we have, spend, make, etc. Also no real concept of what things cost. It’s like those times where they make Bill Gates guess how much a banana costs. She buys things constantly but doesn’t pay attention to how much anything is. Like, a new pair of shoes could be $30 or $300 and she would have no clue which if I gave her the multiple choice. It makes life much easier imo. I’m equally ignorant with a lot of the stuff she takes care of.
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Post by: chum1 on March 05, 2020, 03:26:22 PM
Post by: catastrophe on March 05, 2020, 03:27:34 PM
Post by: WillieWatanabe on March 05, 2020, 04:38:01 PM
candidly my wife doesn't like me telling her what to do so it's nice to have someone else tell both of us what to do at the same time.
i'm pretty fortunate that i could lose half our retirement savings in the market and my wife would never notice. pretty sure it affects my investment style (although not necessarily for the better).
Same, my wife has no idea how much money we have, spend, make, etc. Also no real concept of what things cost. It’s like those times where they make Bill Gates guess how much a banana costs. She buys things constantly but doesn’t pay attention to how much anything is. Like, a new pair of shoes could be $30 or $300 and she would have no clue which if I gave her the multiple choice. It makes life much easier imo. I’m equally ignorant with a lot of the stuff she takes care of.
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I'm curious to know that this stuff is
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on March 05, 2020, 04:50:31 PM
I'm still young enough to invest aggressivley and ride the rollercoaster. Now in another 10-15 years I'll hire somebody to help me start structuring my assets for eventual retirement, but I'm going to look for somebody who just sells his/her time instead of earning their money on percentage fees or commissions. I just don't trust those people. It's a conflict of interest no matter how you slice it.
Post by: Dugout DickStone on March 05, 2020, 04:55:08 PM
candidly my wife doesn't like me telling her what to do so it's nice to have someone else tell both of us what to do at the same time.
i'm pretty fortunate that i could lose half our retirement savings in the market and my wife would never notice. pretty sure it affects my investment style (although not necessarily for the better).
Same, my wife has no idea how much money we have, spend, make, etc. Also no real concept of what things cost. It’s like those times where they make Bill Gates guess how much a banana costs. She buys things constantly but doesn’t pay attention to how much anything is. Like, a new pair of shoes could be $30 or $300 and she would have no clue which if I gave her the multiple choice. It makes life much easier imo. I’m equally ignorant with a lot of the stuff she takes care of.
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mine didn't even know where we banked or how to check balances, deposits etc.
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on March 05, 2020, 05:35:29 PM
It's extremely rare to beat the market consistently, so why not just chuck your money into some low cost index funds just keep plugging away? I've never seen th wisdom in paying some dude 3% of my holdings every year when he's probably not going to beat the market by enough to earn his keep.
I'm still young enough to invest aggressivley and ride the rollercoaster. Now in another 10-15 years I'll hire somebody to help me start structuring my assets for eventual retirement, but I'm going to look for somebody who just sells his/her time instead of earning their money on percentage fees or commissions. I just don't trust those people. It's a conflict of interest no matter how you slice it.
isn't that the whole point of your financial advisor being a fiduciary though? like, they are obligated to act in your best interest regardless of whether or not it is in their best interest so it kind of removes the whole conflict of interest thing? Idk maybe that's oversimplifying it.
Post by: steve dave on March 05, 2020, 05:35:36 PM
candidly my wife doesn't like me telling her what to do so it's nice to have someone else tell both of us what to do at the same time.
i'm pretty fortunate that i could lose half our retirement savings in the market and my wife would never notice. pretty sure it affects my investment style (although not necessarily for the better).
Same, my wife has no idea how much money we have, spend, make, etc. Also no real concept of what things cost. It’s like those times where they make Bill Gates guess how much a banana costs. She buys things constantly but doesn’t pay attention to how much anything is. Like, a new pair of shoes could be $30 or $300 and she would have no clue which if I gave her the multiple choice. It makes life much easier imo. I’m equally ignorant with a lot of the stuff she takes care of.
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I'm curious to know that this stuff is
Children daycare calendars, 1st grade school calendar, sport lesson/practice schedule and potential conflicts, all schedules other than my personal work schedule, birthdays of even my immediate family, medical info and pediatrician info, how much drugs to give a kid that may be dying or may be faking, when/where we need to sign up for X for the kids, what school thing is the best, it goes on.
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Post by: michigancat on March 05, 2020, 05:55:01 PM
It's extremely rare to beat the market consistently, so why not just chuck your money into some low cost index funds just keep plugging away? I've never seen th wisdom in paying some dude 3% of my holdings every year when he's probably not going to beat the market by enough to earn his keep.
I'm still young enough to invest aggressivley and ride the rollercoaster. Now in another 10-15 years I'll hire somebody to help me start structuring my assets for eventual retirement, but I'm going to look for somebody who just sells his/her time instead of earning their money on percentage fees or commissions. I just don't trust those people. It's a conflict of interest no matter how you slice it.
isn't that the whole point of your financial advisor being a fiduciary though? like, they are obligated to act in your best interest regardless of whether or not it is in their best interest so it kind of removes the whole conflict of interest thing? Idk maybe that's oversimplifying it.
Yeah I hired a fiduciary. For me it's about optimizing the array of 529's and backdoor Roth's and how aggressively to pay down loans and building funds for a down payment vs. investing that money, etc. I'd expect most of my money to stay in index funds with a possible slight reallocation.
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on March 05, 2020, 06:26:55 PM
Post by: michigancat on March 05, 2020, 06:30:12 PM
I’m skeptical of the whole “fiduciary” thing. It’s basically meaningless. And just like with realtors, a 3% commission is meaningful to me because I’m paying, but it really provides minimal to no incentive to them to actually work all that hard protecting my money. There’s no real magic to what these guys are doing. Except when you ask them to demonstrate how their results will out-perform the market. Then the magic begins.I should have clarified that I hired one that is fee based
Post by: steve dave on March 05, 2020, 06:34:42 PM
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Post by: steve dave on March 05, 2020, 08:35:18 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200306/3b8accf9607566043b35d82a09cd98b1.jpg)
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Post by: sys on March 05, 2020, 08:43:02 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 05, 2020, 09:18:32 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 05, 2020, 09:30:22 PM
The decline has been known, and discussed, for quite a while in the Bitcoin twitter sphere for some time. Welcome to the party.
lmaoooooooooo
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Post by: sys on March 05, 2020, 11:07:37 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 06, 2020, 06:29:23 AM
if bitcoiners are going to transition to: "we must create an alternative currency because there is insufficient inflation in fiat money", i'd like to be kept updated on the movement's work.
lmao
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Post by: Kat Kid on March 06, 2020, 08:40:53 AM
Post by: catastrophe on March 06, 2020, 09:04:05 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on March 06, 2020, 09:44:47 AM
So thinking no recession now?
i am thinking recession
Post by: catastrophe on March 06, 2020, 10:23:40 AM
Post by: steve dave on March 08, 2020, 08:34:55 PM
:sdeek:
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Post by: DaBigTrain on March 08, 2020, 08:36:44 PM
Post by: sys on March 08, 2020, 08:37:43 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 08, 2020, 08:46:43 PM
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Post by: sys on March 08, 2020, 08:52:43 PM
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on March 08, 2020, 09:17:21 PM
Post by: catastrophe on March 08, 2020, 09:29:38 PM
Why do the worst things always happen to me?
Post by: sys on March 08, 2020, 11:05:13 PM
What are your symptoms?
normal cold, mostly. more coughing/wheezing, less mucous pouring out of my face than i'm used to.
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 09, 2020, 07:26:30 AM
https://twitter.com/newyorkfed/status/1236975982541758466
Post by: steve dave on March 09, 2020, 08:40:51 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200309/57d0a88c6691f36c35c1080072159c9c.jpg)
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Post by: star seed 7 on March 09, 2020, 08:52:07 AM
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 09, 2020, 08:54:38 AM
Post by: steve dave on March 09, 2020, 08:56:53 AM
Is that bad?That depends
if you subscribe to the sd kk newsletter text message chain you'd know there were high level insider wallstreet types that are already making some moves to protect their assets from the inevitable bernie sanders driven market collapse.
if you subscribe to the sd kk newsletter text message chain you'd know there were high level insider wallstreet types that are already making some moves to protect their assets from the inevitable bernie sanders driven market collapse.
Would like to know the super secret strategies. Although I don't wanna mess with trying to time the market.
well you're out of luck, because that's 100% of what this is!
THE HATERS WILL SAY IT’S PHOTOSHOP
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Post by: catastrophe on March 09, 2020, 09:02:17 AM
Happy for you guys tho.
Post by: steve dave on March 09, 2020, 09:04:31 AM
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1232058127740174339
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Post by: steve dave on March 09, 2020, 10:08:26 AM
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1237024549046288385
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Post by: meow meow on March 09, 2020, 10:20:14 AM
Post by: Brock Landers on March 09, 2020, 10:24:13 AM
Post by: catastrophe on March 09, 2020, 10:36:17 AM
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on March 09, 2020, 01:38:26 PM
What are your symptoms?
normal cold, mostly. more coughing/wheezing, less mucous pouring out of my face than i'm used to.
Hope you’re feeling better today. Chunk some more money into the market. Holy ballz.
Post by: Brock Landers on March 09, 2020, 01:49:23 PM
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on March 09, 2020, 02:09:24 PM
I'm just enjoying the ride and feeling glad I suspended all my elective non-retirement investing last year to focus on paying down my mortgage instead. Now I'm shoveling cash into the market at 20% off. I love still being young enough that when the market tanks all I see is investment and refi opportunity.
Post by: Brock Landers on March 09, 2020, 02:18:08 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 09, 2020, 02:38:29 PM
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Post by: meow meow on March 09, 2020, 02:53:19 PM
Post by: OB_Won on March 09, 2020, 02:59:50 PM
I think one of the president's most important jobs is to be a cheerleader for the economy. So I'm not sure what you're upset about, or why you blame the current market volatility on the trumpster. Or maybe you're just kidding. Dunno.So you see it as a good thing that you missed out on 25+% gains to pay off a 4-5% mortgage, or you mean you did it right at the end of the year?
I'm just enjoying the ride and feeling glad I suspended all my elective non-retirement investing last year to focus on paying down my mortgage instead. Now I'm shoveling cash into the market at 20% off. I love still being young enough that when the market tanks all I see is investment and refi opportunity.
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on March 09, 2020, 03:36:20 PM
I think one of the president's most important jobs is to be a cheerleader for the economy. So I'm not sure what you're upset about, or why you blame the current market volatility on the trumpster. Or maybe you're just kidding. Dunno.So you see it as a good thing that you missed out on 25+% gains to pay off a 4-5% mortgage, or you mean you did it right at the end of the year?
I'm just enjoying the ride and feeling glad I suspended all my elective non-retirement investing last year to focus on paying down my mortgage instead. Now I'm shoveling cash into the market at 20% off. I love still being young enough that when the market tanks all I see is investment and refi opportunity.
Turns out I didn't miss out on those gains after all, which have now disappeared. And now I'm lower in debt AND buying back into a market on sale.
Post by: OB_Won on March 09, 2020, 05:16:48 PM
Crushin' It!I think one of the president's most important jobs is to be a cheerleader for the economy. So I'm not sure what you're upset about, or why you blame the current market volatility on the trumpster. Or maybe you're just kidding. Dunno.So you see it as a good thing that you missed out on 25+% gains to pay off a 4-5% mortgage, or you mean you did it right at the end of the year?
I'm just enjoying the ride and feeling glad I suspended all my elective non-retirement investing last year to focus on paying down my mortgage instead. Now I'm shoveling cash into the market at 20% off. I love still being young enough that when the market tanks all I see is investment and refi opportunity.
Turns out I didn't miss out on those gains after all, which have now disappeared. And now I'm lower in debt AND buying back into a market on sale.
Post by: steve dave on March 09, 2020, 05:47:34 PM
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Post by: steve dave on March 09, 2020, 05:53:34 PM
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1237147226314596352
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Post by: steve dave on March 09, 2020, 05:59:09 PM
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Post by: DaBigTrain on March 09, 2020, 07:03:44 PM
Very smart sir, thank you sirhttps://twitter.com/politidope/status/1233511880783781890
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1237147226314596352
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Post by: sys on March 09, 2020, 11:26:45 PM
Hope you’re feeling better today. Chunk some more money into the market. Holy ballz.
thanks, yeah, i don't feel all that bad, it's just a pain in the ass trying not to kill off a bunch of old people when i don't know if i need to worry about it or not.
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 11, 2020, 02:13:18 PM
Post by: Spracne on March 11, 2020, 02:21:51 PM
WelpWhat's the deal with BTC?
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 11, 2020, 02:32:55 PM
There are two things being talked about it right now. First is investors are selling to cover their losses in the stock market. The second is there was another large scam and they are unloading it on the markets.WelpWhat's the deal with BTC?
The halving is in 2 months. World banks are going to start printing massive amounts of money for bailout packages, massive inflation of unbacked currency. Bitcoin is having a massive deflationary event while this is happening. I’m buying every last bitcoin I can right now at discount prices.
https://twitter.com/100trillionusd/status/1237822143951515650
Post by: steve dave on March 11, 2020, 03:39:42 PM
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Post by: ben ji on March 11, 2020, 08:28:19 PM
Dow officially went to Bear Market today if anyone cares about that stuff. Incredible 11 year Bull run.
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Couldn't find the actual meme I saw earlier today but it was this picture
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/912/756/5db.jpg)
With "Patient Bear, waited 11 years" or something and LOL'd
Post by: catastrophe on March 11, 2020, 11:01:18 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 12, 2020, 07:00:55 AM
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Post by: steve dave on March 12, 2020, 07:02:51 AM
I’m buying every last bitcoin I can right now at discount prices.
:sdeek:
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Post by: steve dave on March 12, 2020, 07:03:24 AM
And I’m tapped out after investing in a brewery. My timing has not been great guys.
That seems like pretty great timing tbh
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Post by: steve dave on March 12, 2020, 09:15:53 AM
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 12, 2020, 11:54:42 AM
:sdeek:I’m buying every last bitcoin I can right now at discount prices.
:sdeek:
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Post by: chum1 on March 12, 2020, 12:15:56 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 12, 2020, 12:55:12 PM
https://twitter.com/newyorkfed/status/1238147299592765441
Post by: chum1 on March 12, 2020, 01:38:52 PM
I bought stock thinking this illness would come and go in a few months. Now, I'm starting to worry that some unforeseen chain of events is going to crash the stock market down to zero.
See!
https://twitter.com/laseptiemewilay/status/1238149867668725760
Post by: catastrophe on March 12, 2020, 02:18:04 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 12, 2020, 02:31:53 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 12, 2020, 02:39:05 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 12, 2020, 07:39:26 PM
:sdeek: :sdeek: :sdeek::sdeek:I’m buying every last bitcoin I can right now at discount prices.
:sdeek:
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Post by: steve dave on March 12, 2020, 08:20:47 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 12, 2020, 08:21:42 PM
if you subscribe to the sd kk newsletter text message chain you'd know there were high level insider wallstreet types that are already making some moves to protect their assets from the inevitable bernie sanders driven market collapse.
Post by: Kat Kid on March 12, 2020, 09:00:29 PM
Post by: sys on March 12, 2020, 09:06:06 PM
I feel bad saying how much money I have made off this thing.
you don't get too many of these kind of wins in a lifetime. don't hold back.
Post by: KITNfury on March 12, 2020, 09:12:18 PM
If it makes you feel better every single person on this earth also is getting their asses whipped. Except subscribers to the kk sd text message insider wall street chainNot everybodyif you subscribe to the sd kk newsletter text message chain you'd know there were high level insider wallstreet types that are already making some moves to protect their assets from the inevitable bernie sanders driven market collapse.
Post by: steve dave on March 12, 2020, 10:14:01 PM
Post by: IPA4Me on March 12, 2020, 10:19:02 PM
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Post by: catastrophe on March 12, 2020, 10:47:24 PM
I feel bad saying how much money I have made off this thing.
you don't get too many of these kind of wins in a lifetime. don't hold back.
Yeah we're all just observers around the craps table of life here. High or low rollers we're all on the same team.
Post by: Kat Kid on March 12, 2020, 11:26:50 PM
My current is down 7%
From market peak which is very close to when I made this move.
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 13, 2020, 12:01:08 AM
Post by: Spracne on March 13, 2020, 12:06:50 AM
Post by: michigancat on March 13, 2020, 12:09:38 AM
https://twitter.com/arrington/status/1238310048474058752
lol at the crypto prices being the terrifying thing this guy is seeing right now
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 15, 2020, 04:17:56 PM
https://twitter.com/ap/status/1239296780992425984
Post by: chum1 on March 15, 2020, 04:20:15 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 15, 2020, 05:43:26 PM
https://twitter.com/cnbcnow/status/1239315856552845313
Post by: IPA4Me on March 15, 2020, 06:35:15 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 16, 2020, 08:23:47 AM
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1238799084263260161
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 16, 2020, 08:40:44 AM
Post by: catastrophe on March 16, 2020, 08:47:12 AM
Post by: steve dave on March 16, 2020, 09:19:05 AM
Basically every two weeks there’s gonna be a little jump due to automatic 401k and other contributions.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/2fs2I4ujlBf20/giphy.gif)
Post by: michigancat on March 16, 2020, 09:22:20 AM
oh nohttps://twitter.com/jbarro/status/1239555596002693120
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1238799084263260161
I don't know how anyone can be so dumb and how there can be so many people I think aren't as dumb surrounding him afraid to tell him how dumb he is. We're 3 years in and I'm still astounded but the dumbness
Post by: catastrophe on March 16, 2020, 09:33:26 AM
People buying stocks isn’t going to make prices go up? I’m not even asking rhetorically. I’m now legit questioning my understanding of the market.Basically every two weeks there’s gonna be a little jump due to automatic 401k and other contributions.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/2fs2I4ujlBf20/giphy.gif)
Post by: steve dave on March 16, 2020, 09:48:12 AM
People buying stocks isn’t going to make prices go up? I’m not even asking rhetorically. I’m now legit questioning my understanding of the market.Basically every two weeks there’s gonna be a little jump due to automatic 401k and other contributions.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/2fs2I4ujlBf20/giphy.gif)
in general yes. if demand to buy is greater than the demand to sell the price increases. but, if 401k/IRA contributions ever consistently resulted in even tiny increase in values it would have been exploited a long time ago. and then the systems exploiting it would have been exploited by the meta exploitations, and so on, and so forth. all done robotically by people making an absolute assload of money from just exploiting things like this. also, the amount of volume in equities that come from retirement plan contributions is a lot smaller than most people think. unless people think it's like single digits of daily volume on those pay days and then those people are correct. also the timing of rebalancing and financial institution actions will drive up daily activity more than any retirement contributions. so the first of each month is generally higher volume but not because of retirement activity (for the most part). Also January 1 is high activity.
Post by: catastrophe on March 16, 2020, 09:57:13 AM
Post by: steve dave on March 16, 2020, 10:00:19 AM
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Post by: steve dave on March 16, 2020, 10:08:37 AM
the only people who saved themselves here were those who made moves ahead of all of this, ie. premium members of the sd and kk financial text message group.
Post by: catastrophe on March 16, 2020, 10:15:24 AM
Post by: ben ji on March 16, 2020, 10:17:02 AM
Post by: steve dave on March 16, 2020, 10:17:17 AM
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Post by: Brock Landers on March 16, 2020, 10:25:33 AM
Post by: steve dave on March 16, 2020, 10:28:43 AM
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Post by: Fedor on March 16, 2020, 11:56:49 AM
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 16, 2020, 03:06:26 PM
https://twitter.com/robustus/status/1239643104824737792
Post by: chum1 on March 16, 2020, 03:12:21 PM
Post by: Brock Landers on March 16, 2020, 03:15:48 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 16, 2020, 09:06:45 PM
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Post by: DaBigTrain on March 16, 2020, 11:41:35 PM
Post by: bucket on March 17, 2020, 08:55:29 AM
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 17, 2020, 09:49:38 AM
Printing money out of thin air.https://twitter.com/cnbcnow/status/1239919418144174088
https://twitter.com/newyorkfed/status/1238147299592765441
Post by: KITNfury on March 17, 2020, 10:25:52 AM
Post by: steve dave on March 17, 2020, 10:29:59 AM
Post by: KITNfury on March 17, 2020, 11:00:33 AM
equities at this discount seem like a better inflation hedge than gold. if inflation is your big concern.That may be. Outside of real estate, I'm really dumb about investing. I try to self educate a little on other investments, but usually I get disinterested before I get very far.
Post by: steve dave on March 17, 2020, 11:18:21 AM
inflation - good
market booms - good
market eats crap - bad
market already ate crap. may eat some more because it loves crap more than anything in the world right now but, maybe it's full of crap for the moment?
Post by: steve dave on March 17, 2020, 11:22:07 AM
market boom - bad
inflation - better than cash
market eats crap - maybe good
big disruption in the markets and panic - good
mad max societal collapse scenario - bad again, invest in bullets and guzzolene
Post by: KITNfury on March 17, 2020, 11:22:35 AM
Post by: steve dave on March 17, 2020, 11:23:25 AM
The rumor I've heard is that predicting the market is difficult
that rumor is going around, yes
Post by: Kat Kid on March 17, 2020, 11:43:56 AM
Post by: steve dave on March 17, 2020, 12:04:08 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 18, 2020, 01:24:07 PM
Post by: puniraptor on March 18, 2020, 10:53:29 PM
Post by: michigancat on March 18, 2020, 10:57:32 PM
can someone tell me exactly when the markets have bottomed out so that i can inject all my savings into one of those sick vanguard index funds?
probably not
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 18, 2020, 10:58:32 PM
Post by: puniraptor on March 18, 2020, 11:07:52 PM
can someone tell me exactly when the markets have bottomed out so that i can inject all my savings into one of those sick vanguard index funds?
probably not
sorry, i meant MAY someone PLEASE tell me exactly when markets have bottomed out so that i can inject all my savings into one of those dope vanguard index funds?
Post by: Spracne on March 18, 2020, 11:32:15 PM
Post by: catastrophe on March 19, 2020, 12:49:41 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 20, 2020, 05:49:30 PM
Holy crapPrinting money out of thin air.https://twitter.com/cnbcnow/status/1239919418144174088
https://twitter.com/newyorkfed/status/1238147299592765441
https://twitter.com/cnbcnow/status/1241051728604250112
Post by: steve dave on March 20, 2020, 06:01:43 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 20, 2020, 06:29:31 PM
DBT, you keep posting that...but I don't think what is happening there is what you think is happening there....I’ve been hoping if I posted it enough times you would stop by and tell me what it means.
Post by: Spracne on March 20, 2020, 06:38:51 PM
Post by: michigancat on March 22, 2020, 03:09:02 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 22, 2020, 04:34:57 PM
Post by: bucket on March 22, 2020, 05:15:10 PM
Post by: sys on March 22, 2020, 06:32:20 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on March 22, 2020, 07:14:12 PM
https://www.bls.gov/schedule/news_release/empsit.htm (https://www.bls.gov/schedule/news_release/empsit.htm)
March 2020 Apr. 03, 2020 08:30 AM
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 23, 2020, 09:21:57 AM
https://twitter.com/martybent/status/1242090758821351432
Post by: ben ji on March 23, 2020, 10:15:49 AM
:Woot: unlimited unbacked cash :cool:
https://twitter.com/martybent/status/1242090758821351432
Kittens are the currency of the future and I'm sitting on a gold mine. We are ramping production up 150% here at the cat ranch.
Post by: KITNfury on March 23, 2020, 03:18:16 PM
I hope that little snippet was taken out of context because we didn't hear what he said before /after that.
Post by: Spracne on March 23, 2020, 03:31:37 PM
Post by: KITNfury on March 23, 2020, 03:36:56 PM
I feel like the people freaking out about that have no idea about monetary policy."Infinite amount of cash" doesn't bother you? It actually doesn't bother me much if I don't look outside my bubble. Most of my net worth is in a tangible asset that is leveraged. So hyper inflation pushes me way up the totem pole.
But "infinite cash" printing kills almost everyone that have traditional savings /pensions.
Post by: sys on March 23, 2020, 03:38:19 PM
I feel like the people freaking out about that have no idea about monetary policy.
i can't even tell what people think was wrong in that clip.
Post by: sys on March 23, 2020, 03:41:04 PM
people are gonna freak the eff out.
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 23, 2020, 03:47:30 PM
Post by: catastrophe on March 23, 2020, 03:49:05 PM
Do you think there exists any scenario where the federal government would print and put enough money into circulation that its value is reduced like 80% plus?I feel like the people freaking out about that have no idea about monetary policy."Infinite amount of cash" doesn't bother you? It actually doesn't bother me much if I don't look outside my bubble. Most of my net worth is in a tangible asset that is leveraged. So hyper inflation pushes me way up the totem pole.
But "infinite cash" printing kills almost everyone that have traditional savings /pensions.
And even if you thought that world existed, owning equity in companies could still hedge against it.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on March 23, 2020, 03:49:30 PM
Post by: KITNfury on March 23, 2020, 03:51:01 PM
Currently they are printing money at a record pace. They're kicking the can down the road and opening the door for high (relative) inflation and a hard economic crash. But sure, there are no real problems with "infinite cash".
Post by: KITNfury on March 23, 2020, 03:53:23 PM
Like where tomorrow's dollar has the purchasing power of 20 cents today? No, I don't think it will be anywhere near that. I need more guns and ammo if that happens.Do you think there exists any scenario where the federal government would print and put enough money into circulation that its value is reduced like 80% plus?I feel like the people freaking out about that have no idea about monetary policy."Infinite amount of cash" doesn't bother you? It actually doesn't bother me much if I don't look outside my bubble. Most of my net worth is in a tangible asset that is leveraged. So hyper inflation pushes me way up the totem pole.
But "infinite cash" printing kills almost everyone that have traditional savings /pensions.
And even if you thought that world existed, owning equity in companies could still hedge against it.
Post by: Spracne on March 23, 2020, 04:07:37 PM
Post by: KITNfury on March 23, 2020, 04:15:17 PM
Let me make an analogy that this board might understand better. A well-functioning economy is like a well-functioning zerk. Cash/liquidity availability is like the grease on a zerk. The Fed is the grease gun.No crap, but there are negative consequences to overprinting money. That can't be denied.
Post by: meow meow on March 23, 2020, 04:22:37 PM
Post by: sys on March 23, 2020, 04:23:29 PM
No crap, but there are negative consequences to overprinting money. That can't be denied.
only if you define "overprinting" as having occurred when negative consequences subsequently appear.
Post by: Kat Kid on March 23, 2020, 04:25:42 PM
Post by: chum1 on March 24, 2020, 08:24:02 AM
https://twitter.com/LJKawa/status/1242433466052022273
Post by: steve dave on March 24, 2020, 08:27:13 AM
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Post by: Spracne on March 24, 2020, 01:26:55 PM
I mean, junk bonds are getting extra junky and treasuries extra treasury’y for pretty obvious reasons. I don’t think it’s a useful tool right now. Market P/E is always one to watch but is useless right now when the P is down 35% and the E is based on a value from a different planet than the one we live on now.
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I don't understand. Can you put that in zerk terms?
Post by: Kat Kid on March 24, 2020, 01:34:17 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on March 26, 2020, 11:28:14 AM
Post by: steve dave on March 26, 2020, 12:28:48 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 26, 2020, 12:38:33 PM
Post by: Spracne on March 26, 2020, 03:00:37 PM
Post by: bucket on March 30, 2020, 09:15:43 AM
Post by: chum1 on April 14, 2020, 09:47:52 AM
Post by: catastrophe on April 19, 2020, 11:22:03 AM
Post by: sys on April 19, 2020, 11:23:52 AM
Post by: chum1 on April 20, 2020, 09:21:35 AM
Post by: cfbandyman on April 20, 2020, 01:13:06 PM
So far looking like the fewer people employed the better the stock market does. Who knew?
I don't get it, wonder what will happen in the coming months.
Stock Market isn't the economy, but it is a reflection of the parts of the economy that are doing well based on the bailouts. Eventually the entire economy will get reflected into it but in general the stock market is like a weather forecast where the economy is the entire climate. It'll correct itself in due time, I mean after all it was insane how inflated it was before this all happened, the current levels IMO are much closer to what it really is, but it's also starting to ride another bubble.
Post by: cfbandyman on April 20, 2020, 01:18:17 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on April 20, 2020, 01:22:02 PM
Also, oil is under a $1 (cheapest I saw so far was 10 cents) for a barrel. That is insane
-$7
Post by: catastrophe on April 20, 2020, 01:28:48 PM
Post by: cfbandyman on April 20, 2020, 01:33:36 PM
Post by: cfbandyman on April 20, 2020, 01:36:09 PM
Post by: ben ji on April 20, 2020, 01:51:53 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on April 20, 2020, 01:56:07 PM
Post by: cfbandyman on April 20, 2020, 01:59:33 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on April 20, 2020, 02:04:22 PM
Post by: cfbandyman on April 20, 2020, 02:04:32 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on April 20, 2020, 02:07:37 PM
Post by: ben ji on April 20, 2020, 02:10:49 PM
Post by: catastrophe on April 20, 2020, 02:31:23 PM
Where am I going to store all this free oil and cash?If you buy enough oil, you can buy a storage facility with the free cash!
Post by: steve dave on April 20, 2020, 03:46:17 PM
Post by: sys on April 20, 2020, 08:07:16 PM
Post by: Pete on May 06, 2020, 08:55:50 AM
Quote
“In my view, for most people, the best thing to do is owning the S&P 500 index fund,” Buffett said at Berkshire’s annual meeting. “If you bet on America and sustain that position for decades, you’d do far better than buying Treasury securities, or far better than following people ... Perhaps with a bias, I don’t believe anyone knows what the market is going to do tomorrow, next week, next month, next year,” Buffett said.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/04/buffett-isnt-buying-but-says-one-stock-market-bet-still-makes-sense.html
Post by: michigancat on May 06, 2020, 09:18:03 AM
No one really needed any more confirmation of S&P 500 index funds, but here's the world's greatest investor (and all around superb human) endorsing simply buying S&P 500 index funds. I am definitely just an average "most people" that he's referring to.Quote“In my view, for most people, the best thing to do is owning the S&P 500 index fund,” Buffett said at Berkshire’s annual meeting. “If you bet on America and sustain that position for decades, you’d do far better than buying Treasury securities, or far better than following people ... Perhaps with a bias, I don’t believe anyone knows what the market is going to do tomorrow, next week, next month, next year,” Buffett said.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/04/buffett-isnt-buying-but-says-one-stock-market-bet-still-makes-sense.html
I read somewhere that recommended taking the same approach but investing in the global markets. The US-only introduces more risk and assumes we're just naturally better than the rest of the world which I don't think is the wisest.
Of course I'm pretty sure I read this either on Betterment's website or in a discussion in support of Betterment.
Post by: ben ji on May 06, 2020, 09:18:54 AM
No one really needed any more confirmation of S&P 500 index funds, but here's the world's greatest investor (and all around superb human) endorsing simply buying S&P 500 index funds. I am definitely just an average "most people" that he's referring to.Quote“In my view, for most people, the best thing to do is owning the S&P 500 index fund,” Buffett said at Berkshire’s annual meeting. “If you bet on America and sustain that position for decades, you’d do far better than buying Treasury securities, or far better than following people ... Perhaps with a bias, I don’t believe anyone knows what the market is going to do tomorrow, next week, next month, next year,” Buffett said.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/04/buffett-isnt-buying-but-says-one-stock-market-bet-still-makes-sense.html
I first learned about Index funds at the beginning of this thread. :cheers:
Post by: steve dave on May 06, 2020, 09:21:29 AM
No one really needed any more confirmation of S&P 500 index funds, but here's the world's greatest investor (and all around superb human) endorsing simply buying S&P 500 index funds. I am definitely just an average "most people" that he's referring to.Quote“In my view, for most people, the best thing to do is owning the S&P 500 index fund,” Buffett said at Berkshire’s annual meeting. “If you bet on America and sustain that position for decades, you’d do far better than buying Treasury securities, or far better than following people ... Perhaps with a bias, I don’t believe anyone knows what the market is going to do tomorrow, next week, next month, next year,” Buffett said.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/04/buffett-isnt-buying-but-says-one-stock-market-bet-still-makes-sense.html
I read somewhere that recommended taking the same approach but investing in the global markets. The US-only introduces more risk and assumes we're just naturally better than the rest of the world which I don't think is the wisest.
Of course I'm pretty sure I read this either on Betterment's website or in a discussion in support of Betterment.
Historically the US performs better and with more stability. And as mumped up as the US seems to be at the moment it’s still much better than most regions re. political stability and negative reactions to other markets.
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Post by: michigancat on May 06, 2020, 09:23:47 AM
https://www.betterment.com/resources/home-bias-and-the-risks-of-not-diversifying/
Post by: steve dave on May 06, 2020, 09:29:26 AM
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Post by: ben ji on May 06, 2020, 09:33:34 AM
50% - SP 500 Index Funds
20%- Bonds (Was Yolo'n at 0% until last year so I'm glad I decided to add bonds)
15%- International Index Funds
10%- Industry specific funds/small cap
5%- Individual Stocks
Post by: treysolid on May 06, 2020, 10:30:20 AM
4% US bonds
24% International funds
1% International bonds
9% Real estate and commodities
3% Cash
Owning so much International stock has only ever dragged me down below the performance of the S&P 500 the last decade. Especially emerging markets (woof!)
Post by: Cardiac Cats on May 06, 2020, 11:57:42 AM
25% Value
10% MidCap
10% SmallCap
10% REIT
20% Total International Stock
Used to be all in on Bernstein's Four Pillars (below).. but decided to "Yolo at 0%" 4 years ago and adjusted to the above. Probably based on some other book at the time. I know, I know, pick one and stick with it.
40% Total Stock Market Index
30% Total International Stock Index
20% Total Bond Market Index
10% REIT Index Fund
Post by: Spracne on May 06, 2020, 12:01:27 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on May 06, 2020, 12:01:43 PM
100% Bitcoin
Post by: Spracne on May 06, 2020, 12:02:25 PM
100% Bitcoin
Like a Peregrine Falcon, swooping in 16 seconds later.
Post by: Pete on May 06, 2020, 12:47:19 PM
10% Bond Index
I am due to move to 15% bond index within the next year or so, due to my advancing age and old balls.
Post by: Pete on May 06, 2020, 12:49:03 PM
Post by: steve dave on May 06, 2020, 02:03:45 PM
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Post by: steve dave on May 06, 2020, 06:44:11 PM
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Post by: Pete on May 07, 2020, 08:34:00 AM
Post by: kim carnes on May 07, 2020, 08:38:15 AM
Post by: steve dave on May 07, 2020, 08:48:53 AM
The S&P has been held up by tech for years. So just cut the deadweight and buy tech etfs.
Not a bad play. I own a lot of VGT.
Post by: Purple Derpathy on May 07, 2020, 01:42:28 PM
10% Bitcoin
5% Tech Index
5% Growth Index
Post by: steve dave on May 07, 2020, 01:45:55 PM
The S&P has been held up by tech for years. So just cut the deadweight and buy tech etfs.
Not a bad play. I own a lot of VGT.
counterpoint: the S&P is pretty close to a tech index already.
Post by: DaBigTrain on May 07, 2020, 03:14:54 PM
Post by: sys on May 07, 2020, 03:58:27 PM
59% US funds
4% US bonds
24% International funds
1% International bonds
9% Real estate and commodities
3% Cash
Owning so much International stock has only ever dragged me down below the performance of the S&P 500 the last decade. Especially emerging markets (woof!)
i have no real idea what my % international is, but i think it's probably a good bit more than that. or at least it probably was 3 months ago. the market may have rebalanced me down closer to 24% (woof).
Post by: steve dave on May 07, 2020, 04:07:49 PM
Post by: Pete on May 07, 2020, 06:27:42 PM
59% US funds
4% US bonds
24% International funds
1% International bonds
9% Real estate and commodities
3% Cash
Owning so much International stock has only ever dragged me down below the performance of the S&P 500 the last decade. Especially emerging markets (woof!)
i have no real idea what my % international is, but i think it's probably a good bit more than that. or at least it probably was 3 months ago. the market may have rebalanced me down closer to 24% (woof).
Do you have the quarterly auto-rebalancing feature? I use that thing.
Post by: ben ji on May 08, 2020, 12:12:40 AM
59% US funds
4% US bonds
24% International funds
1% International bonds
9% Real estate and commodities
3% Cash
Owning so much International stock has only ever dragged me down below the performance of the S&P 500 the last decade. Especially emerging markets (woof!)
i have no real idea what my % international is, but i think it's probably a good bit more than that. or at least it probably was 3 months ago. the market may have rebalanced me down closer to 24% (woof).
Do you have the quarterly auto-rebalancing feature? I use that thing.
I have a 401k/IRA/Roth IRA/HSA so once a year (typically in December) I add them all up and rebalance all my equities to my desired allocation.
Post by: ben ji on May 08, 2020, 12:20:52 AM
Lets share our portfolio breakdowns
50% - SP 500 Index Funds
20%- Bonds (Was Yolo'n at 0% until last year so I'm glad I decided to add bonds)
15%- International Index Funds
10%- Industry specific funds/small cap
5%- Individual Stocks
Now that I think about it the 50% of the SP 500 allocation is incorrect, alot of of it is in ITOT or VTSAX which encompass basically every stock out there.
For allocation purposes though I treat them all the same.
Post by: Spracne on May 08, 2020, 12:34:01 AM
Post by: treysolid on May 08, 2020, 02:46:35 AM
Post by: meow meow on May 08, 2020, 08:33:28 AM
Thing I started doing this year: set 401K contribution to 100% of salary. Max it out as early in the year as possible. Over time: profit.
interesting. once you hit the contribution limit, does your employer automatically stop contributing to the 401k and you start getting paid again, or do you have to do something?
Post by: michigancat on May 08, 2020, 08:38:23 AM
Post by: steve dave on May 08, 2020, 08:53:31 AM
Thing I started doing this year: set 401K contribution to 100% of salary. Max it out as early in the year as possible. Over time: profit.
does your company match 0%? this is a decent strategy if so.
Post by: steve dave on May 08, 2020, 08:55:59 AM
All the advice I've ever heard about investing is to diversify, but now I'm beginning to question that. I wonder if we are living in an age where american tech and finance stocks will be the major market driver for the next 30-50 years? Should I get the eff out of international and small cap and just do S&P 500? Or even "better", just put all my money in FGCKX (S&P 500 on steroids)?
international has sucked complete crap for my entire lifetime and all indications are that it will continue to. there isn't the stability or central banking to prop up anyone in times like this. USA-USA-USA will probably continue to dominate because of it. Small caps still have merit but this is going to be a brutal year for them. Big ups, big downs. The big fat greedy USA stocks are feasting and will feast every time something crazy like this happens. I posted a little bit ago but the S&P is basically a tech index now. Big, fat, successful tech who are going to gobble up competition at cut rate prices through this thing.
Post by: ben ji on May 08, 2020, 08:58:09 AM
In a similar brag, I accidentally went over the contribution limit by a payment last year (I think because of a bonus). It was accepted and invested but eventually the provider caught it and mailed me a paper check for the amount plus earnings. I think taxes were withheld. The good news is it was pulled out of the market and into cash in early March!
Around 1/3 of my pay is commission/bonus that is paid quarterly. I have to just sort of guess on the percentage to withhold then when it gets to Nov/Dec I can figure out how much I will make that year and set a defined number to finish maxing it out.
Post by: steve dave on May 08, 2020, 09:00:43 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on May 08, 2020, 09:10:28 AM
Post by: steve dave on May 08, 2020, 09:11:23 AM
My asset allocation is very lol right now.
yours changes every 7 minutes though
Post by: chum1 on May 08, 2020, 09:12:04 AM
Around five years ago, I picked five different types of mutual funds for one of my retirement accounts. It's impossible not to notice that one of them is really, REALLY lagging behind the other four. It's meant to be a long term investment, of course, but should I go ahead and dump it anyway because it seems like such a loser "lately?"
Since 2002 +8%
10 year +8%
5 year -1%
1 year -10%
Is it an international fund?
Yep
Performance for each of the five mutual funds looks about the same for 10+ years, so maybe I just answered my own question.
Post by: chum1 on May 08, 2020, 09:22:11 AM
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/plutonomy.asp
Post by: catastrophe on May 08, 2020, 09:27:15 AM
I’ve been doing this for years and now feel like a big dumb giant idiot after this year’s crash. Henceforth I will be spacing out my contributions to mitigate that kind of risk.Thing I started doing this year: set 401K contribution to 100% of salary. Max it out as early in the year as possible. Over time: profit.
does your company match 0%? this is a decent strategy if so.
Post by: catastrophe on May 08, 2020, 09:30:58 AM
All the advice I've ever heard about investing is to diversify, but now I'm beginning to question that. I wonder if we are living in an age where american tech and finance stocks will be the major market driver for the next 30-50 years? Should I get the eff out of international and small cap and just do S&P 500? Or even "better", just put all my money in FGCKX (S&P 500 on steroids)?I think it’s fair to say no one knows. I heard a pretty good point from a bud on the S&P 500 vs. international stocks though. The largest US companies already do plenty to diversify and are definitely tangled in international economies as well. You’re not necessarily hitching you’re wagon to the US economy by investing in a major US corporation.
Post by: chum1 on May 08, 2020, 09:38:52 AM
I’ve been doing this for years and now feel like a big dumb giant idiot after this year’s crash. Henceforth I will be spacing out my contributions to mitigate that kind of risk.Thing I started doing this year: set 401K contribution to 100% of salary. Max it out as early in the year as possible. Over time: profit.
does your company match 0%? this is a decent strategy if so.
Even in the absence of a crash, it works out better in the long run to buy at regular intervals vs. lump sum up front, right?
Post by: michigancat on May 08, 2020, 09:47:36 AM
Post by: catastrophe on May 08, 2020, 10:17:38 AM
Haven’t looked up the math on it, but obviously doing 100% in January could do better than even amounts spaced out through the year. It’s also a lot riskier though, and doesn’t allow you to take advantage of dips that occur throughout the year. So I think the better play is evenly spaced out even if you got enough in the bank to handle no income for a couple months.I’ve been doing this for years and now feel like a big dumb giant idiot after this year’s crash. Henceforth I will be spacing out my contributions to mitigate that kind of risk.Thing I started doing this year: set 401K contribution to 100% of salary. Max it out as early in the year as possible. Over time: profit.
does your company match 0%? this is a decent strategy if so.
Even in the absence of a crash, it works out better in the long run to buy at regular intervals vs. lump sum up front, right?
Sort of case in point, I set up a 529 for kid #1 and picked an arbitrary amount I’d put in it. Funded it all in one year. A year later the account hadn’t gained any value. Market had dropped in the meantime and had just come back, and I missed all that action cause I just wanted to be done with it ASAP.
Post by: chum1 on May 08, 2020, 10:25:11 AM
Haven’t looked up the math on it, but obviously doing 100% in January could do better than even amounts spaced out through the year. It’s also a lot riskier though, and doesn’t allow you to take advantage of dips that occur throughout the year. So I think the better play is evenly spaced out.I’ve been doing this for years and now feel like a big dumb giant idiot after this year’s crash. Henceforth I will be spacing out my contributions to mitigate that kind of risk.Thing I started doing this year: set 401K contribution to 100% of salary. Max it out as early in the year as possible. Over time: profit.
does your company match 0%? this is a decent strategy if so.
Even in the absence of a crash, it works out better in the long run to buy at regular intervals vs. lump sum up front, right?
I'm pretty sure that, empirically, buying at regular intervals yields higher gains than 100% up front over the long term precisely due to dips. Sort of counterintuitive. I read a book on the subject once. Of course, maybe the book was wrong.
Post by: Spracne on May 08, 2020, 10:29:59 AM
Post by: catastrophe on May 08, 2020, 10:30:41 AM
In 2019 the Dow was never lower than it was in Jan/Feb, so lump sum up front would’ve made you more.
In 2020, you do the same and you’re mumped.
Post by: michigancat on May 08, 2020, 10:32:48 AM
Haven’t looked up the math on it, but obviously doing 100% in January could do better than even amounts spaced out through the year. It’s also a lot riskier though, and doesn’t allow you to take advantage of dips that occur throughout the year. So I think the better play is evenly spaced out.I’ve been doing this for years and now feel like a big dumb giant idiot after this year’s crash. Henceforth I will be spacing out my contributions to mitigate that kind of risk.Thing I started doing this year: set 401K contribution to 100% of salary. Max it out as early in the year as possible. Over time: profit.
does your company match 0%? this is a decent strategy if so.
Even in the absence of a crash, it works out better in the long run to buy at regular intervals vs. lump sum up front, right?
I'm pretty sure that, empirically, buying at regular intervals yields higher gains than 100% up front over the long term precisely due to dips. Sort of counterintuitive. I read a book on the subject once. Of course, maybe the book was wrong.
In theory, over time, there should be no difference. It's still essentially dollar cost averaging, you just do it annually instead of every two weeks. Of course it doesn't matter if you're putting 100% in bonds.
Post by: michigancat on May 08, 2020, 10:33:17 AM
Plot twist: I'm 100% in bonds!
Did you start the year 100% in bonds?
Post by: Spracne on May 08, 2020, 10:34:46 AM
Plot twist: I'm 100% in bonds!
Did you start the year 100% in bonds?
Based off a conversation I had with someone ITK in early January, yes.
Post by: steve dave on May 08, 2020, 11:51:54 AM
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Post by: Cardiac Cats on May 08, 2020, 01:59:00 PM
If you're not reading Ben Carlson's blog A Wealth of Common Sense, take the 5 minutes every(ish) day to do it.
https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2018/05/the-lump-sum-vs-dollar-cost-averaging-decision/
Some companies continue to "match" contributions if you've maxed out the limit. My company does not, so instead I have to go like 50% for 3 months and then the minimum to get company match for the last 9 months. Huge pain, but I'm all about lump sum/get my money in the market ASAP.
And to those concerned about diversification, look what EM and Int'l Stocks did in 2012 and 2017. Move your money now and you'll just miss the next ride up. And look at the "Equal Weighted" return.
https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2020/01/updating-my-favorite-performance-chart-for-2019/
As Sam Hinkie once said, "Trust the Process".
Post by: steve dave on May 08, 2020, 02:00:31 PM
Post by: steve dave on May 08, 2020, 02:28:25 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on May 08, 2020, 02:55:56 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on May 08, 2020, 02:56:38 PM
Post by: steve dave on May 08, 2020, 03:10:14 PM
I’ve changed the 10 stocks quite a bit, but I’m pretty well done now.
lmao. I've had this texted to me an average of every 48 hours over the last 2 months.
Post by: treysolid on May 08, 2020, 04:21:08 PM
And to those concerned about diversification, look what EM and Int'l Stocks did in 2012 and 2017. Move your money now and you'll just miss the next ride up. And look at the "Equal Weighted" return.
https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2020/01/updating-my-favorite-performance-chart-for-2019/
As Sam Hinkie once said, "Trust the Process".
lol. the 10-year column in that "quilt" shows that large cap stocks have out-performed EM by >10% over the last 10 years. Who cares about two individual years?
Post by: meow meow on May 08, 2020, 04:23:58 PM
Post by: steve dave on May 08, 2020, 04:37:50 PM
i have like 90% of my retirement in a target retirement fund, and i just want someone to tell me that's a wise strategyThat’s a wise strategy
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Post by: sys on May 08, 2020, 04:59:34 PM
59% US funds
4% US bonds
24% International funds
1% International bonds
9% Real estate and commodities
3% Cash
Owning so much International stock has only ever dragged me down below the performance of the S&P 500 the last decade. Especially emerging markets (woof!)
i have no real idea what my % international is, but i think it's probably a good bit more than that. or at least it probably was 3 months ago. the market may have rebalanced me down closer to 24% (woof).
Do you have the quarterly auto-rebalancing feature? I use that thing.
you were probably directing this at trey, but if you did intend to ask me - no, i don't. i mostly own individual stocks.
Post by: ben ji on May 08, 2020, 08:10:13 PM
i have like 90% of my retirement in a target retirement fund, and i just want someone to tell me that's a wise strategy
Target date funds are great for people who just want to throw money in their 401k and not think about it anymore. Good strategy.
Post by: Cardiac Cats on May 08, 2020, 08:12:04 PM
also I added the carlson guy to my feedly feed
More guys who get it:
Twitter - Josh Brown - @ReformedBroker (blog decent too)
Podcast - Invest like the Best with Patrick O’Shaughnessy - http://investorfieldguide.com/podcast/
Post by: Cardiac Cats on May 08, 2020, 09:09:50 PM
And to those concerned about diversification, look what EM and Int'l Stocks did in 2012 and 2017. Move your money now and you'll just miss the next ride up. And look at the "Equal Weighted" return.
https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2020/01/updating-my-favorite-performance-chart-for-2019/
As Sam Hinkie once said, "Trust the Process".
lol. the 10-year column in that "quilt" shows that large cap stocks have out-performed EM by >10% over the last 10 years. Who cares about two individual years?
I'm not going to change my portfolio (20% Intl Stock) based on recency bias is all I'm saying.
10 year returns ending 2014, EM and REITs (which included 2008 the one of the worst real estate crashes ever) outperformed Large Caps. If you think the greatest bull market in history picks up right where it left off, yes, go all in S&P. I'm assuming you didn't rush to EM and REITs in 2014 though.
To be fair, if 90% S&P and 10% govt bonds is good enough for Buffet's widow, hard to argue with.
Post by: KITNfury on May 09, 2020, 09:27:38 AM
Also if you are in REIT you've got your ass kicked through this thing and I'm betting that ass kicking is going to continue for a long time because there are a lot of people that will just never go back to the office after this thing clears up. If I had any stand alone REIT I'd take the bounce that has happened to this point and move it. I'm wrong like half the time which is why I still have a stupid job so tifwiw.This could be true depending on what the REIT has invested in. But why do you say that?
I'm very bullish on real estate investing, but I invest as an owner, not REITs. I haven't been hurt at all yet. Hopefully that continues, obviously no guarantees. But while the stock market burned, my investments kept going steady. Only time will tell if it holds, but I'm not too nervous about it.
Post by: steve dave on May 09, 2020, 09:37:23 AM
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Post by: michigancat on May 09, 2020, 09:39:52 AM
Post by: IPA4Me on May 09, 2020, 09:41:02 AM
Unfortunately, my company owns the property. So can't easily downsize the spaces. It does allow us to expand internal support as we don't need space for outside sales any longer.
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Post by: steve dave on May 09, 2020, 09:51:43 AM
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Post by: BW on May 09, 2020, 09:52:49 AM
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Post by: steve dave on May 09, 2020, 10:11:38 AM
Anyone else been using WFH to day trade? Hot Corona stocks and leveraged ETFs!
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Of course. But I’ve WFH for years.
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Post by: KITNfury on May 09, 2020, 10:11:40 AM
I’m specifically talking about commercial real estate, people still need places to live. They probably don’t need places to work. Companies are announcing daily that they are not going back to the office or at least regional offices as they can just WFM and save on capital costs, Nationwide did yesterday or the day before as one example. There will be a lot more that do. My company is evaluating it and I’m confident our regional office space will be nonexistent after having thousands of employees in regional spaces prior to this.Agreed about office space, very glad I don't hold that type of property. One thing about that though. Good chance it will get much cheaper to buy and someone will think of a creative way to repurpose it and make a boat load.
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Post by: KITNfury on May 09, 2020, 10:13:50 AM
Spitballing here, but a somewhat sustained 15% unemployment rate could have an impact on residential real estate values.Sure, but if you're only investing in real estate for the value of the property, YDIW. If you're cash flowing positively with enough reserves and margin, you don't GAF about the actual value. At least not too much care.
Post by: steve dave on May 09, 2020, 10:16:44 AM
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Post by: KITNfury on May 09, 2020, 10:23:29 AM
Home value directly relates to rental value though, right? I’m no expert but you’d think there’d be a direct correlation.It can but not too much. I wasn't a property owner during the '08 crash. That was one of the biggest American real estate crashes of all time. The investors I've spoken to that had property then said that most rent held steady or even went up. Why? People were losing their homes so credit was garbage and couldn't buy another. They became tenants.
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Not saying it can't cause a little dip, but at least historically, property losing value don't drive rent down. Real estate values going up will likely cause rent to go up though.
Post by: michigancat on May 09, 2020, 10:35:27 AM
Post by: KITNfury on May 09, 2020, 10:37:42 AM
Sounds kinda culty when you talk about residential property management, KITN. You may be right about what will happen, but there's just something about your tone.Not sure what that means haha. Does the haha help or hurt my tone?
Post by: Pete on May 09, 2020, 10:45:44 AM
also I added the carlson guy to my feedly feed
I just got the feedly app as a result of this post!
Post by: michigancat on May 09, 2020, 11:03:00 AM
You are very passionate and devoted!Sounds kinda culty when you talk about residential property management, KITN. You may be right about what will happen, but there's just something about your tone.Not sure what that means haha. Does the haha help or hurt my tone?
Post by: Pete on May 09, 2020, 11:08:41 AM
i have like 90% of my retirement in a target retirement fund, and i just want someone to tell me that's a wise strategyThat’s a wise strategy
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Yeah, agreed. The biggest mistake is not saving in the first place. The second biggest is trying to beat the market. meow meow is going to get a (mostly) normal return on his investment (if we assume your service provider doesn't have crap fund managers, which does happen). Our retirement funds are not there to get us rich. Trying to beat the market in your retirement fund is rough ridin' crazy. I want to match the market at the lowest cost possible.
I mean, eff. It seems like madness to NOT dollar cost average (regular period investing) in index funds.
(https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-by-periodically-investing-in-an-index-fund-the-know-nothing-investors-can-actually-outperform-warren-buffett-68-94-56.jpg)
(https://miro.medium.com/max/1280/0*h_WKe532JJ17ImM9.gif)
Post by: treysolid on May 09, 2020, 01:08:58 PM
And to those concerned about diversification, look what EM and Int'l Stocks did in 2012 and 2017. Move your money now and you'll just miss the next ride up. And look at the "Equal Weighted" return.
https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2020/01/updating-my-favorite-performance-chart-for-2019/
As Sam Hinkie once said, "Trust the Process".
lol. the 10-year column in that "quilt" shows that large cap stocks have out-performed EM by >10% over the last 10 years. Who cares about two individual years?
I'm not going to change my portfolio (20% Intl Stock) based on recency bias is all I'm saying.
10 year returns ending 2014, EM and REITs (which included 2008 the one of the worst real estate crashes ever) outperformed Large Caps. If you think the greatest bull market in history picks up right where it left off, yes, go all in S&P. I'm assuming you didn't rush to EM and REITs in 2014 though.
To be fair, if 90% S&P and 10% govt bonds is good enough for Buffet's widow, hard to argue with.
I'm not divesting from my international stuff right now, either. I was just wondering aloud if this "you need to diversify" advice is advice that's been passed down through recent generations and was the best advice for those eras but isn't necessarily the best advice for our current era. Like, if this was the 1700's, knowing what we know now, I'm rocking with the East India Company (atrocities aside). What if domestic, large cap stocks are the "East India Company" of our current era and will be for the next 50-100 years?
Post by: steve dave on May 09, 2020, 01:11:49 PM
Post by: steve dave on May 09, 2020, 01:15:20 PM
Post by: Pete on May 09, 2020, 02:39:58 PM
I mean, the S&P is only down 9% for the year and the Nasdaq is positive through this mess. The big are going to get bigger at cut rate prices. Millions of small and medium business will suffer or fail but you better believe Amazon, Microsoft, etc. are going to thrive. And the US is going to come out of this in significantly better shape than any other country.
That's my bet too. :pray:
Post by: Pete on May 09, 2020, 02:40:36 PM
And to those concerned about diversification, look what EM and Int'l Stocks did in 2012 and 2017. Move your money now and you'll just miss the next ride up. And look at the "Equal Weighted" return.
https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2020/01/updating-my-favorite-performance-chart-for-2019/
As Sam Hinkie once said, "Trust the Process".
lol. the 10-year column in that "quilt" shows that large cap stocks have out-performed EM by >10% over the last 10 years. Who cares about two individual years?
I'm not going to change my portfolio (20% Intl Stock) based on recency bias is all I'm saying.
10 year returns ending 2014, EM and REITs (which included 2008 the one of the worst real estate crashes ever) outperformed Large Caps. If you think the greatest bull market in history picks up right where it left off, yes, go all in S&P. I'm assuming you didn't rush to EM and REITs in 2014 though.
To be fair, if 90% S&P and 10% govt bonds is good enough for Buffet's widow, hard to argue with.
I'm not divesting from my international stuff right now, either. I was just wondering aloud if this "you need to diversify" advice is advice that's been passed down through recent generations and was the best advice for those eras but isn't necessarily the best advice for our current era. Like, if this was the 1700's, knowing what we know now, I'm rocking with the East India Company (atrocities aside). What if domestic, large cap stocks are the "East India Company" of our current era and will be for the next 50-100 years?
I really like this analogy.
Post by: IPA4Me on May 13, 2020, 08:13:01 AM
Also if you are in REIT you've got your ass kicked through this thing and I'm betting that ass kicking is going to continue for a long time because there are a lot of people that will just never go back to the office after this thing clears up. If I had any stand alone REIT I'd take the bounce that has happened to this point and move it. I'm wrong like half the time which is why I still have a stupid job so tifwiw.You're not likely to be wrong here.
https://dnyuz.com/2020/05/12/manhattan-faces-a-reckoning-if-working-from-home-becomes-the-norm/ (https://dnyuz.com/2020/05/12/manhattan-faces-a-reckoning-if-working-from-home-becomes-the-norm/)
Post by: DaBigTrain on June 08, 2020, 01:44:15 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on June 08, 2020, 01:48:26 PM
https://twitter.com/hipster_trader/status/1270051448836022280https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-27/icahn-files-13d-a-on-hertz
Post by: Kat Kid on June 08, 2020, 01:48:59 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on June 08, 2020, 01:49:29 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on June 16, 2020, 02:26:00 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on June 22, 2020, 08:46:49 PM
Post by: ben ji on June 23, 2020, 08:39:14 AM
I bought a bunch of gold shares recently and it felt kind of dirty but feeling a lot better about it now.
You should buy gold coins/bars and bury them in your backyard.
Post by: DaBigTrain on June 23, 2020, 08:49:13 AM
Seems like a lot of workI bought a bunch of gold shares recently and it felt kind of dirty but feeling a lot better about it now.
You should buy gold coins/bars and bury them in your backyard.
Post by: Kat Kid on June 23, 2020, 11:19:48 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on June 24, 2020, 04:56:19 PM
I’m not saying you stop doing other things during this time, just that you will be adding and subtracting things on a rolling basis over that 72 hr window.
You don’t have to actually do too much real analysis or research, you mostly just watch CNBC and see what they are saying and scroll your portfolio with your brow furrowed, nodding and shaking your head.
Also, sometimes you will see something on the stocks app on your phone on your “watchlist” or see one of the “leaders & laggards” on the crawl and see a stock ticker you once almost bought or you just sold, or even better “I own that crap!”
This is the life you have chosen for yourself. The life of a trader—puts, Calls, mostly just market order buys and sells. Some limit sells and buys.
If your portfolio, goes down, you can always just add more money in to the account and then look at the higher AUM. You are a stud. That is called an “inflow” you will tell your grandchildren about this. Hell yeah!
Post by: DaBigTrain on June 24, 2020, 04:58:37 PM
One key piece of advice I would offer is you should definitely do something without thinking more than 30 seconds about it then think about nothing else besides whether you did a good or bad thing for the next 72 hours.
I’m not saying you stop doing other things during this time, just that you will be adding and subtracting things on a rolling basis over that 72 hr window.
You don’t have to actually do too much real analysis or research, you mostly just watch CNBC and see what they are saying and scroll your portfolio with your brow furrowed, nodding and shaking your head.
Also, sometimes you will see something on the stocks app on your phone on your “watchlist” or see one of the “leaders & laggards” on the crawl and see a stock ticker you once almost bought or you just sold, or even better “I own that crap!”
This is the life you have chosen for yourself. The life of a trader—puts, Calls, mostly just market order buys and sells. Some limit sells and buys.
If your portfolio, goes down, you can always just add more money in to the account and then look at the higher AUM. You are a stud. That is called an “inflow” you will tell your grandchildren about this. Hell yeah!
This is all excellent advice, TY.
:kstategrad:
Post by: steve dave on June 24, 2020, 05:54:58 PM
One key piece of advice I would offer is you should definitely do something without thinking more than 30 seconds about it then think about nothing else besides whether you did a good or bad thing for the next 72 hours.
I’m not saying you stop doing other things during this time, just that you will be adding and subtracting things on a rolling basis over that 72 hr window.
You don’t have to actually do too much real analysis or research, you mostly just watch CNBC and see what they are saying and scroll your portfolio with your brow furrowed, nodding and shaking your head.
Also, sometimes you will see something on the stocks app on your phone on your “watchlist” or see one of the “leaders & laggards” on the crawl and see a stock ticker you once almost bought or you just sold, or even better “I own that crap!”
This is the life you have chosen for yourself. The life of a trader—puts, Calls, mostly just market order buys and sells. Some limit sells and buys.
If your portfolio, goes down, you can always just add more money in to the account and then look at the higher AUM. You are a stud. That is called an “inflow” you will tell your grandchildren about this. Hell yeah!
:thumbs:
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Post by: sys on June 24, 2020, 06:00:45 PM
Post by: michigancat on June 24, 2020, 06:03:19 PM
i can't wait until katkid gets rich enought that his ideology conflicts with his portfolio.
I gotta imagine it already does! I mean as someone who has just about all my retirement savings invested in the S&P500, I definitely have some ideological conflicts with my investments. Hell I have ideological conflicts with my job.
Post by: sys on June 24, 2020, 06:14:22 PM
Post by: michigancat on June 24, 2020, 06:21:38 PM
i think katkid's conflicts would be much more amusing. with no offense intended to either of you.None taken
Post by: Kat Kid on June 24, 2020, 06:50:14 PM
i think katkid's conflicts would be much more amusing. with no offense intended to either of you.
I have diversified my moral portfolio.
Post by: steve dave on June 24, 2020, 08:15:54 PM
i can't wait until katkid gets rich enought that his ideology conflicts with his portfolio.I can assure you they already do, very hard
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Post by: puniraptor on June 25, 2020, 05:02:25 AM
The #ack? Reinvest the quarterly dividends into penny stocks.
I just look for the biggest losing penny stock at that day and buy as much as I can with my 1-2 dollar dividend
Post by: steve dave on June 25, 2020, 06:59:55 AM
I put 100 dollars into robin Hood like 9 months ago and today it's worth $115!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200625/8f73b7f9d436ecbc9aaa0a34043fdd69.jpg)
The #ack? Reinvest the quarterly dividends into penny stocks.
I just look for the biggest losing penny stock at that day and buy as much as I can with my 1-2 dollar dividend
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Post by: puniraptor on June 25, 2020, 07:10:35 AM
Post by: DQ12 on June 25, 2020, 09:16:06 AM
Post by: DaBigTrain on July 06, 2020, 09:17:26 AM
Post by: steve dave on July 06, 2020, 10:43:34 AM
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Post by: Kat Kid on July 25, 2020, 05:48:35 PM
I have been making tons of money with the stocks only go up plan, and am now going to stop trading my Roth IRA and want to make a mutual fund/etf portfolio.
Absolute minimum of S&P 500 index is 60%
The other 40% rules—
No bonds (for losers)
Want emerging markets exposure
Want international exposure
Not sure if I should have some sector exposure in single digit percentages (home builders, biotech, semi conductors etc) or do small cap or what or just keep it simple.
Also, let me be clear I made a Robin Hood account and bought in on June 8th my birthday and the recent market top and promptly lost 10% and have been doing super dumb crap constantly and managed to claw back to -4.8% by doing tons of other dumb crap, but occasionally buying OTM VXX calls and sweating them for a week until they go green. I am here to admit I am a total dumbass.
If anyone (Steve Dave or sdbro or brokercat69) wants to see my IRL RobinHood “portfolio” and help me extract max value from it I will definitely take their (maybe sys too or some finance bro I don’t know about) advice on this matter, but I don’t want to lay that all out here without someone actually offering some help and I’m more concerned with the retirement account than the RH because it is like 20x the value.
Post by: michigancat on July 25, 2020, 05:54:31 PM
Alright friends, it’s me again.
I have been making tons of money with the stocks only go up plan, and am now going to stop trading my Roth IRA and want to make a mutual fund/etf portfolio.
Absolute minimum of S&P 500 index is 60%
The other 40% rules—
No bonds (for losers)
Want emerging markets exposure
Want international exposure
Not sure if I should have some sector exposure in single digit percentages (home builders, biotech, semi conductors etc) or do small cap or what or just keep it simple.
Also, let me be clear I made a Robin Hood account and bought in on June 8th my birthday and the recent market top and promptly lost 10% and have been doing super dumb crap constantly and managed to claw back to -4.8% by doing tons of other dumb crap, but occasionally buying OTM VXX calls and sweating them for a week until they go green. I am here to admit I am a total dumbass.
If anyone (Steve Dave or sdbro or brokercat69) wants to see my IRL RobinHood “portfolio” and help me extract max value from it I will definitely take their (maybe sys too or some finance bro I don’t know about) advice on this matter, but I don’t want to lay that all out here without someone actually offering some help and I’m more concerned with the retirement account than the RH because it is like 20x the value.
Just do 100% s&p 500
Post by: Kat Kid on July 25, 2020, 05:56:47 PM
Post by: michigancat on July 25, 2020, 06:09:50 PM
I would go up to 80% but I think it would be bad to not have more than 10-15% international exposure.I think this was discussed ITT but the S&P 500 IS international exposure, the companies are just registered in the US.
Post by: Kat Kid on July 25, 2020, 06:20:21 PM
Post by: sys on July 25, 2020, 06:25:48 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on July 25, 2020, 06:26:57 PM
Post by: wetwillie on July 25, 2020, 06:28:10 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on July 25, 2020, 06:28:20 PM
i'd include some intl and probably some small cap.Like the Total ex US or some regions or what?
Post by: Kat Kid on July 25, 2020, 06:31:57 PM
What’s driving you to eff with your investments? I assume it’s FOMO on being Uber rich instead of just filthy rich.I have been at home for months on end with no sports, very little to do and have tons of extra money that didn’t get spent on child care while there had been a raging bull market. There are like tens of millions of people doing this dumb crap, I am not unique in any way.
Post by: sys on July 25, 2020, 06:48:16 PM
Like the Total ex US or some regions or what?
probably doesn't matter.
Post by: Kat Kid on July 25, 2020, 06:50:40 PM
Post by: ben ji on July 25, 2020, 07:50:29 PM
50% SP500/Total market fund
20% Bonds
15% International
10% Specific Funds (Currently a Health Care/Oil (LOL)/ Small cap)
5% Individual Stocks
401k money is invested automatically and every 2-3 months I'll glance at my portfolio and use money that has been going into my RothIRA/HSA to keep the allocation around the same.
Around Thanksgiving/Christmas I typically do a end of year "Report" where I actually add all the random funds/stocks up in all my accounts (401k/IRA/RothIRA/HSA) to make sure my allocations are in line with my plan and decide if I need to make any adjustments to where my new money is invested in the upcoming year.
Also I'm basically rich as crap because stocks only go up.
Post by: steve dave on July 25, 2020, 07:54:21 PM
Nikola has some hotness right nowlmao
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Post by: DaBigTrain on July 27, 2020, 09:19:16 AM
It’s only up 14% today in first trading since this comment :lol:Nikola has some hotness right nowlmao
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Post by: IPA4Me on July 27, 2020, 02:02:43 PM
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Post by: DaBigTrain on July 27, 2020, 02:31:10 PM
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4361040-nikola-drops-to-new-lows-after-public-float-almost-quintuples-worst-is-likely-yet-to-comeSome short sell opportunities, some new long opportunities, some day trading opportunities to make quick cash. Gosh it’s got some hotness :love:
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Post by: IPA4Me on July 27, 2020, 02:32:12 PM
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Post by: DaBigTrain on July 27, 2020, 02:38:40 PM
Playing with fire. It's a house of cards, man.Like more so than magic internet money?
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Post by: star seed 7 on July 29, 2020, 10:44:28 AM
https://twitter.com/MarketWatch/status/1288484575807766529
(not political, just lol)
Post by: steve dave on July 29, 2020, 10:53:47 AM
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Post by: DaBigTrain on July 29, 2020, 11:07:57 AM
Shady AF
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Especially since he announced that Tuesday afternoon and it jumped 400% Tuesday morning. Definitely insider trading.
Post by: kstate4life on July 31, 2020, 10:40:33 AM
Post by: steve dave on July 31, 2020, 11:33:15 AM
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Post by: sys on July 31, 2020, 12:35:35 PM
i can't imagine the horror of owning a partial share. you can't even round up, i think all you could do is sell your holding and repurchase a round number of shares.
Post by: steve dave on July 31, 2020, 12:50:30 PM
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Post by: IPA4Me on July 31, 2020, 02:02:34 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on August 10, 2020, 11:42:47 AM
Post by: DaBigTrain on August 10, 2020, 11:50:10 AM
Shady AF
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Especially since he announced that Tuesday afternoon and it jumped 400% Tuesday morning. Definitely insider trading.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/08/10/kodak-stock-sec/
Post by: Kat Kid on August 13, 2020, 06:01:09 PM
Post by: wetwillie on August 13, 2020, 06:46:34 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on August 13, 2020, 10:39:56 PM
Post by: mocat on August 14, 2020, 10:10:39 AM
Post by: meow meow on August 14, 2020, 10:33:34 AM
Post by: Institutional Control on August 14, 2020, 10:50:44 AM
think he would have funded a neck transplant first
We don't body shame on this blog.
Post by: DaBigTrain on August 20, 2020, 11:54:18 AM
Post by: steve dave on August 20, 2020, 12:40:27 PM
So short selling Tesla has to be in the cards now...right? Or it could just go up forever idk
lmao, google David Einhorn
Post by: DaBigTrain on August 20, 2020, 01:17:22 PM
Post by: steve dave on August 20, 2020, 01:21:04 PM
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Post by: DaBigTrain on August 20, 2020, 01:34:04 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on August 20, 2020, 02:44:12 PM
Post by: steve dave on August 27, 2020, 08:26:10 AM
(https://i.imgflip.com/1l3vcm.jpg)
congratulations to everyone who owns things!
Post by: steve dave on August 27, 2020, 08:29:09 AM
Post by: DaBigTrain on August 31, 2020, 12:13:04 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on August 31, 2020, 12:31:00 PM
Post by: Cardiac Cats on August 31, 2020, 01:10:27 PM
So short selling Tesla has to be in the cards now...right? Or it could just go up forever idk
lmao, google David Einhorn
I know I overplay Ben, but this is good. David has to be losing his mind.
https://twitter.com/awealthofcs/status/1300474298315010048?s=20
Post by: sys on August 31, 2020, 01:19:58 PM
Post by: cfbandyman on August 31, 2020, 01:45:55 PM
If valuations ever matter again it will come crashing down but that’s not a unique thing to TSLA. Retail bros (morons) are just running wild.
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Yeah, there are just tons of bubbles out there. Tesla makes absolutely no sense to me.
Post by: kim carnes on September 02, 2020, 01:11:37 PM
Anyone know the amount of bonds/loans the US gov't/Treasury/Fed Reserve bought/gave out this year to private businesses? I was having a really hard time finding that total figure.
No but all that money is going straight into asset markets, no inflation though.
Post by: steve dave on September 03, 2020, 09:13:12 PM
https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1301622370650685440
Post by: wetwillie on September 03, 2020, 09:43:56 PM
Post by: steve dave on September 04, 2020, 11:04:28 AM
Post by: cfbandyman on September 04, 2020, 11:12:15 AM
TSLA now down to levels unseen since last Tuesday! This is what I call a buyers dip! Alexa, open Robinhood app.
:lol:
Post by: cfbandyman on September 04, 2020, 11:14:18 AM
Post by: steve dave on September 04, 2020, 06:06:21 PM
TSLA now down to levels unseen since last Tuesday! This is what I call a buyers dip! Alexa, open Robinhood app.lmao
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200904/2243802d0d565a20d6dbfa6e6c3c7d56.jpg)
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Post by: DaBigTrain on September 04, 2020, 07:29:43 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on September 04, 2020, 08:17:26 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on September 04, 2020, 10:09:42 PM
DBT, does it bother you that BTC, basically sells off with the stock market now?No, not at all. The stock market will continue to have new ATHs, inflation of the dollar isn’t going away, neither is the price of BTC compared to the dollar.
Post by: BW on September 05, 2020, 07:50:47 AM
That last hour before close was nice for flipping short timed calls.TSLA now down to levels unseen since last Tuesday! This is what I call a buyers dip! Alexa, open Robinhood app.lmao
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200904/2243802d0d565a20d6dbfa6e6c3c7d56.jpg)
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Post by: DaBigTrain on September 08, 2020, 11:24:40 AM
Nikola has some hotness right nowlmao
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lmao
Post by: chum1 on September 08, 2020, 10:09:45 PM
I've seen lots of this dude today.
(https://ragingbull.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ww1-300x300.jpg)
Post by: DaBigTrain on September 11, 2020, 02:29:47 PM
Post by: steve dave on September 11, 2020, 05:31:17 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on September 11, 2020, 08:56:35 PM
Post by: sys on September 12, 2020, 04:54:32 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on September 12, 2020, 05:02:33 PM
look at katkid trying to shove more cash in bezos' pocket. handwritten letter asking him why the warehouse employees are getting paid so damn much to follow.I am under no illusions about how bad these companies are. But “ESG” investing is a joke or at least it is if you don’t have a billion dollars.
Post by: steve dave on September 12, 2020, 05:33:34 PM
Post by: steve dave on September 12, 2020, 05:34:06 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on September 16, 2020, 11:30:33 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on September 16, 2020, 11:29:08 PM
Post by: steve dave on September 17, 2020, 07:54:24 AM
Berkshire Hathaway is the biggest shareholder.
BRK as a tech index is lmao but here we are
Post by: Kat Kid on September 17, 2020, 08:21:32 AM
Berkshire Hathaway is the biggest shareholder.
BRK as a tech index is lmao but here we are
He isn't as dumb as Portnoy says.
Post by: DaBigTrain on September 17, 2020, 10:27:52 AM
Post by: ChiComCat on September 17, 2020, 02:39:37 PM
very early in kk and I's fund evolution he made it very clear that his investing takes and his socio-political takes were in no way related.
Mrs. Chicat came to a meeting with our financial planner for the first time earlier this year. Immediately told the financial planner that she didn't want any investments that had anything to do with Trump. Mrs. Chicat will not be at the next financial planner meeting.
Post by: Kat Kid on September 17, 2020, 04:33:07 PM
very early in kk and I's fund evolution he made it very clear that his investing takes and his socio-political takes were in no way related.
Mrs. Chicat came to a meeting with our financial planner for the first time earlier this year. Immediately told the financial planner that she didn't want any investments that had anything to do with Trump. Mrs. Chicat will not be at the next financial planner meeting.
lmao
Post by: DaBigTrain on September 21, 2020, 08:43:43 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200921/4bc4c35d596a12d90c828d3afe747aba.jpg)
Post by: DaBigTrain on September 21, 2020, 03:45:15 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on September 21, 2020, 04:08:35 PM
Holy crap the interview that just happened on CNBC :lol:Someone finally posted it. Holy crap lol
https://twitter.com/sawyermerritt/status/1308149496929452032
Post by: steve dave on September 23, 2020, 02:21:07 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ein2h-LWkAA5Uds?format=jpg&name=medium)
Post by: Kat Kid on September 26, 2020, 07:45:31 AM
Post by: ben ji on September 26, 2020, 08:53:23 AM
Man my “fun” account loaded up with midstream pipelines and gold is eating absolute crap.
BUY THE DIP!!! I have a oil ETF that is about 1% of my portfolio that I bought for around $80 a share back in 2016ish, then I bought some more at like $60 a share a couple years later....Just bought some more the other day at $30 a share. I just can't quit that hot sexy piece of black carbon.
BRING BACK PEAK OIL! CLOSE THE STRAIGHTS OF HORMUZ!
Post by: wetwillie on September 26, 2020, 11:27:27 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on September 26, 2020, 05:33:23 PM
My cost basis? Let’s not talk about it.
Keep the dividend alive and I will be ok.
Post by: DaBigTrain on October 01, 2020, 10:58:23 AM
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4377156-skip-mission-produce-ipo-3-superior-avocado-stocks
Post by: sys on October 01, 2020, 04:52:20 PM
Post by: kim carnes on October 01, 2020, 05:32:02 PM
Post by: steve dave on October 01, 2020, 10:05:18 PM
bezek is one of my favorite reads. if he says to skip it, i'd listen.
lmao
Post by: Kat Kid on October 18, 2020, 04:13:49 PM
Great new tool I found for checking out information on index/ETFs and comparing them. Now that basically all indices are all low cost, you want to make sure it is actually a good index and not just a bad low cost one. For something like VOO/SPY this isn’t a big deal, but for emerging markets or dividends or sector/theme ETFs it is a huge deal.
Post by: steve dave on October 18, 2020, 04:38:04 PM
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Post by: ben ji on October 18, 2020, 04:47:15 PM
https://www.theindexstandard.com/
Great new tool I found for checking out information on index/ETFs and comparing them. Now that basically all indices are all low cost, you want to make sure it is actually a good index and not just a bad low cost one. For something like VOO/SPY this isn’t a big deal, but for emerging markets or dividends or sector/theme ETFs it is a huge deal.
Thank you for this link. I have 3 different International/Emerging market funds in different accounts and was clueless on how to compare them/what the big differences were. This helps.
Post by: Kat Kid on October 18, 2020, 05:31:59 PM
Post by: BW on October 18, 2020, 05:39:22 PM
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Post by: steve dave on October 18, 2020, 06:26:53 PM
Guys, I got too cocky on penny stocks and same week call options.Double....Down (not irl)
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Post by: Kat Kid on October 18, 2020, 07:21:51 PM
Post by: chum1 on October 26, 2020, 09:43:38 AM
Post by: steve dave on October 26, 2020, 10:02:53 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on October 26, 2020, 10:53:27 AM
you have to spend money to make money as kat kid always says
I do tell my wife that pretty frequently when she asks how our "savings" I put in RH are doing.
Post by: chum1 on October 29, 2020, 12:13:34 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on October 29, 2020, 12:31:31 PM
Post by: chum1 on October 29, 2020, 12:50:27 PM
Post by: IPA4Me on October 29, 2020, 12:59:56 PM
Post by: treysolid on November 05, 2020, 10:00:43 PM
Post by: steve dave on November 05, 2020, 10:15:26 PM
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Post by: chum1 on November 05, 2020, 10:20:00 PM
Post by: treysolid on November 05, 2020, 10:51:20 PM
I mean, congrats on your solar because
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Solar is up 140% this year so far with Battery up 80% :cheers:
Post by: steve dave on November 06, 2020, 06:30:46 AM
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Post by: Kat Kid on November 06, 2020, 08:45:20 PM
Activist investing...anyone do it? Last month I dumped an Energy ETF full of oil and gas companies (that I bought like 6 years ago) and replaced it with a Wind Energy ETF to go along with my Solar and Battery ETFs.
I still have a lot of oil stonks and such but by next year if I am still feeling this much pain I will capitulate, I am telling myself to hold out until next summer but i am weak willed.
Post by: CHONGS on November 06, 2020, 09:13:17 PM
Post by: steve dave on November 06, 2020, 09:26:05 PM
Invest in RGR.
over bought and market is saturated
Post by: steve dave on November 09, 2020, 07:32:15 AM
Post by: chum1 on November 09, 2020, 07:41:20 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on November 09, 2020, 06:04:26 PM
STONKS!
today felt so good
Post by: 'taterblast on November 18, 2020, 09:01:27 AM
in 2021 they won't be an option for me. do i just pound traditional IRA or do a "backdoor" roth?
Post by: ben ji on November 18, 2020, 09:14:29 AM
question bout Roth IRAs:
in 2021 they won't be an option for me. do i just pound traditional IRA or do a "backdoor" roth?
Why won't the Roth IRA be an option? The MAGI limit is higher for a roth than a traditional IRA
Post by: tdaver on November 18, 2020, 09:16:27 AM
Post by: tdaver on November 18, 2020, 09:25:24 AM
question bout Roth IRAs:
in 2021 they won't be an option for me. do i just pound traditional IRA or do a "backdoor" roth?
Why won't the Roth IRA be an option? The MAGI limit is higher for a roth than a traditional IRA
MAGI limit for trad IRA is only for determining how much of the contribution is deductible. You can still make non deductible contributions if over the limit and those can be converted to a Roth.
Post by: steve dave on November 18, 2020, 11:22:36 AM
Backdoor. Unless you also already have a traditional with a lot of deducted contributions, then may not be worth it paying taxes on the conversion.Yeah, back door is the loophole that just continues to be legal for some reason. And by god, I am a follower of the law.
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Post by: 'taterblast on November 18, 2020, 12:15:52 PM
Why won't the Roth IRA be an option?
MAGI limit which i was not aware of until yesterday. kind of blew my mind.
Post by: michigancat on November 18, 2020, 02:24:59 PM
Post by: michigancat on November 18, 2020, 02:25:43 PM
Post by: steve dave on November 18, 2020, 02:48:10 PM
If you and your partner are already maxing out your 401k's is the Roth backdoor necessary? Obv depends on your situation but worth looking into maybe not doing it and just taking an extra vacation or something.Depends how many dozens of children you have of undetermined drive and intelligence.
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Post by: ben ji on November 22, 2020, 10:03:50 AM
The TLDR version is "Just let compounding interest do its work"
https://www.collaborativefund.com/blog/the-psychology-of-money/
Quote
Accepting that everything involving money is driven by illogical emotions and has more moving parts than anyone can grasp is a good start to remembering that history is the study of things happening that people didn’t think would or could happen. This is especially true with money.
Post by: chum1 on November 22, 2020, 06:05:05 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on December 02, 2020, 09:34:22 PM
Post by: Phil Titola on December 02, 2020, 09:42:43 PM
Why won't the Roth IRA be an option?
MAGI limit which i was not aware of until yesterday. kind of blew my mind.
Cheers on the backdoor fanningbrag. At least your realized it before it was penalty time.
Post by: Gooch on December 09, 2020, 03:04:03 PM
Post by: KITNfury on December 09, 2020, 03:31:53 PM
I am maxed out on 401k contributions and Roth IRA's. What else is there i could look at that is relatively stable and I don't have to look at thirty times a day?. Buy rental property.
Post by: ben ji on December 09, 2020, 03:55:33 PM
I am maxed out on 401k contributions and Roth IRA's. What else is there i could look at that is relatively stable and I don't have to look at thirty times a day?
HSA would be #1 depending on your health coverage, or just dump it in a standard brokerage account.
Post by: steve dave on December 09, 2020, 04:02:57 PM
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Post by: catastrophe on December 09, 2020, 04:14:13 PM
This is my #1 advice to anyone who will listen. If you have any intention of having kids and paying for some part of their college, a 529 is also great if you can get it going early.I am maxed out on 401k contributions and Roth IRA's. What else is there i could look at that is relatively stable and I don't have to look at thirty times a day?
HSA would be #1 depending on your health coverage, or just dump it in a standard brokerage account.
Otherwise yeah, just any S&P 500 index fund is probably a good move as long as you don’t expect you’ll need to withdraw it for a good 20+ years.
Post by: KITNfury on December 09, 2020, 06:02:49 PM
Post by: catastrophe on December 09, 2020, 06:28:20 PM
Post by: KITNfury on December 09, 2020, 06:44:28 PM
Honestly I endorse that for anyone who enjoys the type of work it requires. It can be a great ROI if done smartly. I gave up on the slum lord dream a while back because I realized I’d rather trade the upside of rental income for the worry free ease of index funds.I work probably an average of 1-2 hours per week on mine (mostly administrative/financial). My only source of income. Wasn't that way when I started and thought I needed to do it all myself. It was stressful at times back then. After a couple years, wised up. I do not run slums, FWIW.
Post by: steve dave on December 09, 2020, 08:35:21 PM
Honestly I endorse that for anyone who enjoys the type of work it requires. It can be a great ROI if done smartly. I gave up on the slum lord dream a while back because I realized I’d rather trade the upside of rental income for the worry free ease of index funds.I work probably an average of 1-2 hours per week on mine (mostly administrative/financial). My only source of income. Wasn't that way when I started and thought I needed to do it all myself. It was stressful at times back then. After a couple years, wised up. I do not run slums, FWIW.
nice work. there was a time this was what I wanted to do when I grew up.
Post by: KITNfury on December 09, 2020, 09:17:49 PM
I tell everyone to do it, nobody listens. I somewhat get it, sounds scary and clogged toilet-y, but doesn't have to be that way.Honestly I endorse that for anyone who enjoys the type of work it requires. It can be a great ROI if done smartly. I gave up on the slum lord dream a while back because I realized I’d rather trade the upside of rental income for the worry free ease of index funds.I work probably an average of 1-2 hours per week on mine (mostly administrative/financial). My only source of income. Wasn't that way when I started and thought I needed to do it all myself. It was stressful at times back then. After a couple years, wised up. I do not run slums, FWIW.
nice work. there was a time this was what I wanted to do when I grew up.
Post by: steve dave on December 09, 2020, 09:18:38 PM
Post by: catastrophe on December 09, 2020, 10:11:26 PM
Post your step by step and I’ll consider it.I tell everyone to do it, nobody listens. I somewhat get it, sounds scary and clogged toilet-y, but doesn't have to be that way.Honestly I endorse that for anyone who enjoys the type of work it requires. It can be a great ROI if done smartly. I gave up on the slum lord dream a while back because I realized I’d rather trade the upside of rental income for the worry free ease of index funds.I work probably an average of 1-2 hours per week on mine (mostly administrative/financial). My only source of income. Wasn't that way when I started and thought I needed to do it all myself. It was stressful at times back then. After a couple years, wised up. I do not run slums, FWIW.
nice work. there was a time this was what I wanted to do when I grew up.
Post by: KITNfury on December 09, 2020, 10:47:08 PM
I will do my best tomorrow when I'm sober, but there is no only one path. The real magic is created by raising the property value.Post your step by step and I’ll consider it.I tell everyone to do it, nobody listens. I somewhat get it, sounds scary and clogged toilet-y, but doesn't have to be that way.Honestly I endorse that for anyone who enjoys the type of work it requires. It can be a great ROI if done smartly. I gave up on the slum lord dream a while back because I realized I’d rather trade the upside of rental income for the worry free ease of index funds.I work probably an average of 1-2 hours per week on mine (mostly administrative/financial). My only source of income. Wasn't that way when I started and thought I needed to do it all myself. It was stressful at times back then. After a couple years, wised up. I do not run slums, FWIW.
nice work. there was a time this was what I wanted to do when I grew up.
Post by: ben ji on December 09, 2020, 11:10:50 PM
I will do my best tomorrow when I'm sober, but there is no only one path. The real magic is created by raising the property value.Post your step by step and I’ll consider it.I tell everyone to do it, nobody listens. I somewhat get it, sounds scary and clogged toilet-y, but doesn't have to be that way.Honestly I endorse that for anyone who enjoys the type of work it requires. It can be a great ROI if done smartly. I gave up on the slum lord dream a while back because I realized I’d rather trade the upside of rental income for the worry free ease of index funds.I work probably an average of 1-2 hours per week on mine (mostly administrative/financial). My only source of income. Wasn't that way when I started and thought I needed to do it all myself. It was stressful at times back then. After a couple years, wised up. I do not run slums, FWIW.
nice work. there was a time this was what I wanted to do when I grew up.
I am interested in this as well. I've thought about using my current house as a rental if I ever move but honestly I hate doing most home improvement projects so I'll probably just sell it.
Post by: KITNfury on December 10, 2020, 10:52:59 AM
same with farming. some barrier to entry.I don't know anything about farming, but there is some barrier to entry, but there are "ways".
Ok, so I inadvertently drank way more than anticipated last night so I'll try to keep this somewhat brief and coherent. It'll probably not work out that way.I will do my best tomorrow when I'm sober, but there is no only one path. The real magic is created by raising the property value.Post your step by step and I’ll consider it.I tell everyone to do it, nobody listens. I somewhat get it, sounds scary and clogged toilet-y, but doesn't have to be that way.Honestly I endorse that for anyone who enjoys the type of work it requires. It can be a great ROI if done smartly. I gave up on the slum lord dream a while back because I realized I’d rather trade the upside of rental income for the worry free ease of index funds.I work probably an average of 1-2 hours per week on mine (mostly administrative/financial). My only source of income. Wasn't that way when I started and thought I needed to do it all myself. It was stressful at times back then. After a couple years, wised up. I do not run slums, FWIW.
nice work. there was a time this was what I wanted to do when I grew up.
I am interested in this as well. I've thought about using my current house as a rental if I ever move but honestly I hate doing most home improvement projects so I'll probably just sell it.
So first things first, you need knowledge. Start listening to podcasts, with the obvious choice for someone starting out is biggerpockets podcast. High ROI on your time for this one, particularly since you can listen while driving to work, or cooking, or whatever. Just listen to a few, and if it excites you, then you know. If not, that's ok, might not be for you.
Why real estate? Three really big reasons why it's awesome IMO.
First, "equity gains". Over time it almost always appreciates if you buy property around people. If for no other reason that inflation. It hedges against it, and decent chance it will exceed it, maybe by a lot. There are dips in the market, so we're talking about long term. Also, you're renting it out. Someone else is paying down the loan. So between the two, your equity and net worth are growing every month over the long term.
Second, IMO you should always buy something that is positive cash flowing. Meaning, you're making a little money each month after ALL expenses. That means after random expenses and expected expenses. Sounds scary, but it's not. If anyone wants to know more about analyzing a house or multi-family I can help, but won't dive deep here. So, you're making some money each month and your principle is growing. What else could there be?
Tax benefits. You likely won't pay taxes on the cashflow for decades....if ever. You can depreciate your property each year, on paper, to likely off set your income from the property. So if you want to quit your job and make 100k, you probably only need to have 70k income from real estate to maintain your lifestyle. Technically, you can only depreciate residential property for 27.5 years (weird number, I know...don't think anyone knows where that came from). You can accelerate that for bigger tax savings if needed but lets not get lost in the weeds. Just know there are big tax incentives. Also worth noting that tax law can change at any moment if you can get a large room of rich people who likely own property to agree on that.
Ok, so sounds good KITNfury, but how?
Capital. It matters. And most people either don't have it or run out of it. And this is a big topic that listening to podcasts will assist a lot it. You do GENERALLY need money to start. You at least need some reserves for unexpected expenses. But let's say you have $10k, no more. That's not much down payment, unfortunately. But what if you found a house that was completely paid off by the owner and they owner finance it to you? What does that mean? They simply play the bank. You might only have to put a little money down and make payments with interest to them. That's a way. Easy to find that? No, but they exist, deals like that happen more than you might think.
If you have some capital to play with, you can buy more traditionally, typically 20-25% down. But that does run out eventually, what do do? That's why I said before that you need to learn to raise property values. A popular single family term, coined but Brandon at Biggerpockets, is "BRRRR". It stands for "buy, rehab, rent, refinance, repeat". There are books on this, but the skinny is that you buy a house for a good price that needs work. You fix it and raise the value. You rent it out. You then get a new loan on the property with a new higher value that hopefully paid you back out and the old lender. Do it again and again. This can be applied to a single family home all the way to a 500 unit complex. The only difference is how their value is evaluated.
Math time!! To show plainly what I said above with nice round numbers. You buy a fixer for $50k. Being a fixer, you may or may not go to a traditional bank for it. Let's just assume you did, but IRL, just know there are other private lenders for this. Your down payment would be around 20% or $10k. You put $25k into it to get it all fixed up. Maybe you had that money or maybe it was lent. Doesn't matter, let's stay on topic. So all in, you and your lender have put $75k into it. But, now it's worth $100k. Banks will usually lend around 75% of the value of a property. What does this mean? You go to a new bank and refinance. They do the appraisal, and sure enough, it appraises for exactly $100k. So, they loan 75k on the property, which first goes to the previous lender to pay them out and what's left over goes to you which comes out to exactly your down payment. What are you left with? A free house that someone else will pay the mortgage for if you did it right. Take that money and do it again.
I have done that before with apartments too. So you're able to recycle your money over and over again. It just needs to positively cashflow so you don't lose the property to the bank. It's a longer process with apartments, but still do-able. The term you'll hear a lot is "value-add".
If I left anything out, please ask. I feel like most people stopped reading long before this sentence, so I'll stop here.
Post by: steve dave on December 10, 2020, 11:00:47 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on December 10, 2020, 11:05:54 AM
Rental properties are great if you have the time and/or energy, but I have a friend that is doing it and he has been doing it for multiple years and has negative equity without subtracting the time because of having the property sit vacant, upgrades/repairs etc. The same thing can happen in the market of course, but it doesn't take any time to set up a Total Stock Market or VOO (vanguard S&P 500 index ETF) and just set a monthly contribution and forget it. That will compound just like your rental, without any of the other headaches.
There are definitely tax benefits to the rental, but you have to value your own time and I think a lot of people if they were honest would find that they are not making as much money given the amount of time spent as they think.
Post by: KITNfury on December 10, 2020, 11:06:03 AM
buy SPYNot a bad option if sitting at your work desk until you're in your 60s is OK with you. That thought terrified me. Obviously some people retire early investing like that, but most don't.
Post by: KITNfury on December 10, 2020, 11:10:29 AM
If I had hundreds of millions of dollars, I would probably buy some farmland in California and plant like an orchard (or buy one) but short of that being a landlord farmer is just not going to give you the same ROI as simply investing in much easier and less time intensive things like stocks.All property I buy is intended to have infinite ROI. Some does already, the rest will within a year or two. I have no other job, 1-2 hours per week for me, wife works part time, we live a nice middle class life as a family of 3 doing mostly what we want when we want. Hopefully in a few years I'll grow this to where she doesn't work at all and we travel around the world regularly. That's the goal anyway.
Rental properties are great if you have the time and/or energy, but I have a friend that is doing it and he has been doing it for multiple years and has negative equity without subtracting the time because of having the property sit vacant, upgrades/repairs etc. The same thing can happen in the market of course, but it doesn't take any time to set up a Total Stock Market or VOO (vanguard S&P 500 index ETF) and just set a monthly contribution and forget it. That will compound just like your rental, without any of the other headaches.
There are definitely tax benefits to the rental, but you have to value your own time and I think a lot of people if they were honest would find that they are not making as much money given the amount of time spent as they think.
Post by: catastrophe on December 10, 2020, 11:33:59 AM
Post by: KITNfury on December 10, 2020, 11:47:16 AM
Who fixes up the fixer upper? Contractors Who does the tax paperwork? Accountant Who fixes stuff when it breaks? Contractors Who collects the monthly rent? See below (A) Who finds the positive cash flowing properties? Not necessarily easy, but there are lots of different ways. See below. (B)(A) I self manage some of my property, most though is under a property manager. She handles most of everything for those, but sometimes asks my partner and I what we want do for situation X. I use a free online rent collection website for collecting rent, gets deposited right into my account. I have a couple old school tenants that mail me rent, so I have to go to the PO box and mobile deposit those checks.
(B) This is still the trickiest part for me. I've found a deal on craigslist (mostly obsolete at this point in my area). I've found a deal though a realtor. I've found deals through my partner. I've found a deal, with my partner, from a guy we used to make some repairs. So there are so many avenues here, that it would be impossible to list all ways this can be found. If you want to BRRRR a property and want to buy in a city, go find a facebook page for real estate investors in that area. I promise there are people that wholesale there (another topic entirely, but basically they find fixers and sell the contract to people that want to rent or flip houses).
Post by: catastrophe on December 10, 2020, 04:04:44 PM
Post by: steve dave on December 10, 2020, 04:19:01 PM
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Post by: Kat Kid on December 10, 2020, 04:24:41 PM
If you guys need in depth detailed instructions on buying SPY I can provide. TIA.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
buy VOO it is a lower cost and exactly the same.
Post by: Fedor on December 10, 2020, 04:33:50 PM
Are you FIRE?Who fixes up the fixer upper? Contractors Who does the tax paperwork? Accountant Who fixes stuff when it breaks? Contractors Who collects the monthly rent? See below (A) Who finds the positive cash flowing properties? Not necessarily easy, but there are lots of different ways. See below. (B)(A) I self manage some of my property, most though is under a property manager. She handles most of everything for those, but sometimes asks my partner and I what we want do for situation X. I use a free online rent collection website for collecting rent, gets deposited right into my account. I have a couple old school tenants that mail me rent, so I have to go to the PO box and mobile deposit those checks.
(B) This is still the trickiest part for me. I've found a deal on craigslist (mostly obsolete at this point in my area). I've found a deal though a realtor. I've found deals through my partner. I've found a deal, with my partner, from a guy we used to make some repairs. So there are so many avenues here, that it would be impossible to list all ways this can be found. If you want to BRRRR a property and want to buy in a city, go find a facebook page for real estate investors in that area. I promise there are people that wholesale there (another topic entirely, but basically they find fixers and sell the contract to people that want to rent or flip houses).
Post by: catastrophe on December 10, 2020, 04:35:28 PM
That’s what I do! Except I mix in some VTI cause I like to pretend I’m diversifying.If you guys need in depth detailed instructions on buying SPY I can provide. TIA.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
buy VOO it is a lower cost and exactly the same.
Post by: steve dave on December 10, 2020, 04:45:11 PM
Yeah, I’m using SPY as a placeholder hereIf you guys need in depth detailed instructions on buying SPY I can provide. TIA.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
buy VOO it is a lower cost and exactly the same.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: michigancat on December 10, 2020, 04:56:24 PM
I am maxed out on 401k contributions and Roth IRA's. What else is there i could look at that is relatively stable and I don't have to look at thirty times a day?
take an extra vacation each year and splurge
Post by: KITNfury on December 10, 2020, 05:28:56 PM
In all sincerity, this isn’t particularly helpful for someone with no prior experience. Your advice is to find a property that has a good ROI, buy it, rent it, collect the rent, and make all appropriate tax deductions to maximize the value. You have not provided any advice on how you actually do these things other than having a partner and hiring people that know how to do them (and using “a website” for rent collection).I understand, but I wrote a book of a post just going quickly over the high points. I'll go a little deeper here. If you want me to expand further, I can. I can't stress enough I'm detailing one way, but there are so many ways to skin this cat. Don't forget to listen to podcasts, you'll learn a lot by hearing specific examples of what people do.
Decide if you want multi-family or single family. I do multifamily, but let's stay single family. How do you find a good rental. First, decide where you want to buy. Let's assume you live in an affordable midwest city already and want to invest there. You can do any or all of these or do more than this, your choice. The more you do, the higher chance you'll find what you want. You're basically just marketing.
- Tell everyone you know or meet that you want to buy a house/fixer/rental house
- Join all the real estate investing facebook groups you can find and let people know what you want and where you want it
- Go to a physical meet-up for real estate investors. Due to covid, many aren't meeting in person, but they will eventually
- Talk to realtor about your buying criteria and let them find one. If they bring you exactly what you ask and you don't buy it, they probably disappear FWIW
- Go to zillow/facebook marketplace/etc and scour the houses. You might do something like look for a house with 2 bedrooms with 1000+ sqft. That will likely have a place you can add a 3rd bedroom. Typically this will add value to that house relatively easy.
You got a lead on a house, now what? Well is it a good deal? HOW THE eff WOULD I KNOW, KITNfury?! Fair enough, let's dig into analyzing. Rehab costs will absolutely vary way too much for me to just tell you what it will cost. Depends on city, material costs, how good your finishes are, etc. So I will stick to something that is essentially rent ready. You'll need to know how much it will rent for. I usually check a couple places to get a good idea. Rentometer.com is a website that tries to give you market rent based on how many bedrooms. It's not perfect, but it's a data point. Then I check out zillow and look for rentals in that area for rent and look at the pics. Base your rent assumption around what you find. If yours is a little shittier than the comps, it will probably rent for a little less and visa versa is the opposite is true. Size of house, garage spaces, etc will matter too. A guideline, but definitely not a rule, is to divide the monthly rent by the purchase price. A lot of people want 1% or more. It's just a sniff test, nothing more.
Ok, so now you know a basic idea of how much income you can generate. You need to know expenses. With single family, you shouldn't have any utility costs, lawn mowing, etc so that makes it simpler. But you will have mortgage, taxes, and insurance plus basic maintenance and random capital expenditures. I created an easy to use spreadsheet for this. Let me know if you want it. It's fairly conservative, but IMO it's smart to be conservative. Decide what return on your money you want and see if this house will meet your criteria. I personally won't buy anything that doesn't at least have double digit ROI on my down payment (cash on cash return) and I'd like to get closer to 15% or more. This neglects equity gain, it's simple cash flow. The spreadsheet will show both, equity gain plus cashflow will show the IRR (internal rate of return). Basically entire amount your networth is growing.
Ok, so assuming it's a good deal. Buy it. If going through realtors, it's easy enough. If it's a house FSBO, you'll need to get a contract together. IIRC, I think some title companies provide them. Once you're under contract, you'll do all your due diligence and buy. Title company will handle most of it.
So you close and it's time to rent or rehab. If you need to rehab and have been on FB groups, looks for referrals for contractors. Get bids, get the work done.
At this point, decide if you want to self manage or have a property manager. PMs aren't cheap, but they can also be worth their weight in gold. I don't personally think managing one house would be too hard for many people, but that's a personal decision. I'll assume you're going to self manage. Time to rent. I personally have good luck just listing on Zillow. Depending on your area, you might have better luck on facebook or whatever. Talk to other investors to try to figure out which avenue to go, or do them all and you decide.
Yay, you got applications. Who to pick? I personally require their pre-tax income to be a minimum of 3x the rent. I don't allow someone with a previous evictions or felonies. Be aware of fair housing laws and state tenant landlord laws. They are pretty much common sense, but there are some things that are trickier. For instance, "familial status" is protected. So I never ask if they have kids or whatever because if I deny, they could claim it was due to that. That would be an innocent mistake that could bite you. I also call previous landlords, sometimes you don't get a hold of them. I basically ask one question: Would you rent to them again? I do background screening. I use mysmartmove.com. The applicant fills out and pays them and I get the results. It gives criminal, eviction, sex offender, and credit scores to me. Ask for paystubs for proof of income. Basically verify everything told you about themselves.
Place the tenant you chose. Prior to moving them in, walk the property and do a move-in checklist. Notate everything that is beyond "normal wear and tear" and have both you and them sign it. If they move out and there's a giant stain in the carpet, they can't claim it was already there unless it's on that checklist. Don't be a scumbag, only charge them for what they did. I give a receipt for first month's rent and deposit because I only take certified income for that (cash or money order). We'd be off to a bad start if the check bounced and they have a legal signed lease. After that, I don't take anything except checks or online payment. If they mail a check and it's lost, cancel and send another. If they send money order or cash or whatever, probably gone forever and they won't have the money to pay twice.
Online payment, I use Cozy.co (not .com). If the tenant links their checking account, it's free for everyone to use.
Finding and placing a tenant is my least favorite thing to say the least. But I only self manage 11 doors and have good tenants (usually), so once I get one they aren't too much a problem.
So if you think that house value has raised in value due to your work, rent increase, or whatever then go to a bank and do a cash out refinance. Just make sure it still cashflows with the new higher mortgage before going this route. Oh, and you'll likely need to wait 6 months from purchase before doing this to allow it to "season".
Repeat this process. It will seem slow at first, but those little streams of income will become larger faster as you keep doing this. I imagine this seems like a crap ton of work, and it can be, but like all things it gets easier the more you do it. If you use a property manager, those streams will be smaller for longer, but then you're just finding deals and doing a quick rehab on them and waiting to refinance. I can almost guarantee the first time you BRRRR anything (single family or multifamily) you'll be hooked when you realize you have a free house/building that gives you infinite ROI (some positive cash each month with zero of your own money in it). Fun times ahead.
Obviously, buying a property in California will be hard to cashflow, but easier in Indianapolis. Lots of variables to consider depending on area.
Post by: KITNfury on December 10, 2020, 05:32:22 PM
I only recently heard that acronym, so not sure if there is any "program" or whatever for it, but that's basically where I am now. Not rich or anything, but I'm free of any boss or shackled to a desk. I replaced my W2 income and quit. So I'm time free. Not sure what I'll do going forward to help speed up my growth. Flipped a couple houses earlier this year, probably do some more of that to get capital to buy more rental property.Are you FIRE?Who fixes up the fixer upper? Contractors Who does the tax paperwork? Accountant Who fixes stuff when it breaks? Contractors Who collects the monthly rent? See below (A) Who finds the positive cash flowing properties? Not necessarily easy, but there are lots of different ways. See below. (B)(A) I self manage some of my property, most though is under a property manager. She handles most of everything for those, but sometimes asks my partner and I what we want do for situation X. I use a free online rent collection website for collecting rent, gets deposited right into my account. I have a couple old school tenants that mail me rent, so I have to go to the PO box and mobile deposit those checks.
(B) This is still the trickiest part for me. I've found a deal on craigslist (mostly obsolete at this point in my area). I've found a deal though a realtor. I've found deals through my partner. I've found a deal, with my partner, from a guy we used to make some repairs. So there are so many avenues here, that it would be impossible to list all ways this can be found. If you want to BRRRR a property and want to buy in a city, go find a facebook page for real estate investors in that area. I promise there are people that wholesale there (another topic entirely, but basically they find fixers and sell the contract to people that want to rent or flip houses).
Post by: steve dave on December 10, 2020, 05:49:07 PM
Post by: KITNfury on December 10, 2020, 05:55:49 PM
I have friends with no kids that are FIRE. And they will ask me if I am and I lmao in their faces. my kids are of undetermined intelligence and drive. there is no safe amount. I'm just going to assume they are all going to Harvard on non-scholarship for 10 years.I'm looking for a duplex right now. I'll put it on a 15 year note so it will be mostly paid off when the rugrat is 18. She can sell it or put a mortgage on it to pay for college. If that isn't enough, then better have scholarships or else be getting loans.
If she joins her old man in business, college won't be necessary. She could then live in one side and rent the other side.
Post by: 8manpick on December 10, 2020, 05:57:44 PM
Post by: catastrophe on December 10, 2020, 06:00:22 PM
Post by: steve dave on December 10, 2020, 06:07:49 PM
Post by: wetwillie on December 10, 2020, 07:03:56 PM
Post by: michigancat on December 10, 2020, 07:05:41 PM
Or just take a baller vacationIn all sincerity, this isn’t particularly helpful for someone with no prior experience. Your advice is to find a property that has a good ROI, buy it, rent it, collect the rent, and make all appropriate tax deductions to maximize the value. You have not provided any advice on how you actually do these things other than having a partner and hiring people that know how to do them (and using “a website” for rent collection).I understand, but I wrote a book of a post just going quickly over the high points. I'll go a little deeper here. If you want me to expand further, I can. I can't stress enough I'm detailing one way, but there are so many ways to skin this cat. Don't forget to listen to podcasts, you'll learn a lot by hearing specific examples of what people do.
Decide if you want multi-family or single family. I do multifamily, but let's stay single family. How do you find a good rental. First, decide where you want to buy. Let's assume you live in an affordable midwest city already and want to invest there. You can do any or all of these or do more than this, your choice. The more you do, the higher chance you'll find what you want. You're basically just marketing.
- Tell everyone you know or meet that you want to buy a house/fixer/rental house
- Join all the real estate investing facebook groups you can find and let people know what you want and where you want it
- Go to a physical meet-up for real estate investors. Due to covid, many aren't meeting in person, but they will eventually
- Talk to realtor about your buying criteria and let them find one. If they bring you exactly what you ask and you don't buy it, they probably disappear FWIW
- Go to zillow/facebook marketplace/etc and scour the houses. You might do something like look for a house with 2 bedrooms with 1000+ sqft. That will likely have a place you can add a 3rd bedroom. Typically this will add value to that house relatively easy.
You got a lead on a house, now what? Well is it a good deal? HOW THE eff WOULD I KNOW, KITNfury?! Fair enough, let's dig into analyzing. Rehab costs will absolutely vary way too much for me to just tell you what it will cost. Depends on city, material costs, how good your finishes are, etc. So I will stick to something that is essentially rent ready. You'll need to know how much it will rent for. I usually check a couple places to get a good idea. Rentometer.com is a website that tries to give you market rent based on how many bedrooms. It's not perfect, but it's a data point. Then I check out zillow and look for rentals in that area for rent and look at the pics. Base your rent assumption around what you find. If yours is a little shittier than the comps, it will probably rent for a little less and visa versa is the opposite is true. Size of house, garage spaces, etc will matter too. A guideline, but definitely not a rule, is to divide the monthly rent by the purchase price. A lot of people want 1% or more. It's just a sniff test, nothing more.
Ok, so now you know a basic idea of how much income you can generate. You need to know expenses. With single family, you shouldn't have any utility costs, lawn mowing, etc so that makes it simpler. But you will have mortgage, taxes, and insurance plus basic maintenance and random capital expenditures. I created an easy to use spreadsheet for this. Let me know if you want it. It's fairly conservative, but IMO it's smart to be conservative. Decide what return on your money you want and see if this house will meet your criteria. I personally won't buy anything that doesn't at least have double digit ROI on my down payment (cash on cash return) and I'd like to get closer to 15% or more. This neglects equity gain, it's simple cash flow. The spreadsheet will show both, equity gain plus cashflow will show the IRR (internal rate of return). Basically entire amount your networth is growing.
Ok, so assuming it's a good deal. Buy it. If going through realtors, it's easy enough. If it's a house FSBO, you'll need to get a contract together. IIRC, I think some title companies provide them. Once you're under contract, you'll do all your due diligence and buy. Title company will handle most of it.
So you close and it's time to rent or rehab. If you need to rehab and have been on FB groups, looks for referrals for contractors. Get bids, get the work done.
At this point, decide if you want to self manage or have a property manager. PMs aren't cheap, but they can also be worth their weight in gold. I don't personally think managing one house would be too hard for many people, but that's a personal decision. I'll assume you're going to self manage. Time to rent. I personally have good luck just listing on Zillow. Depending on your area, you might have better luck on facebook or whatever. Talk to other investors to try to figure out which avenue to go, or do them all and you decide.
Yay, you got applications. Who to pick? I personally require their pre-tax income to be a minimum of 3x the rent. I don't allow someone with a previous evictions or felonies. Be aware of fair housing laws and state tenant landlord laws. They are pretty much common sense, but there are some things that are trickier. For instance, "familial status" is protected. So I never ask if they have kids or whatever because if I deny, they could claim it was due to that. That would be an innocent mistake that could bite you. I also call previous landlords, sometimes you don't get a hold of them. I basically ask one question: Would you rent to them again? I do background screening. I use mysmartmove.com. The applicant fills out and pays them and I get the results. It gives criminal, eviction, sex offender, and credit scores to me. Ask for paystubs for proof of income. Basically verify everything told you about themselves.
Place the tenant you chose. Prior to moving them in, walk the property and do a move-in checklist. Notate everything that is beyond "normal wear and tear" and have both you and them sign it. If they move out and there's a giant stain in the carpet, they can't claim it was already there unless it's on that checklist. Don't be a scumbag, only charge them for what they did. I give a receipt for first month's rent and deposit because I only take certified income for that (cash or money order). We'd be off to a bad start if the check bounced and they have a legal signed lease. After that, I don't take anything except checks or online payment. If they mail a check and it's lost, cancel and send another. If they send money order or cash or whatever, probably gone forever and they won't have the money to pay twice.
Online payment, I use Cozy.co (not .com). If the tenant links their checking account, it's free for everyone to use.
Finding and placing a tenant is my least favorite thing to say the least. But I only self manage 11 doors and have good tenants (usually), so once I get one they aren't too much a problem.
So if you think that house value has raised in value due to your work, rent increase, or whatever then go to a bank and do a cash out refinance. Just make sure it still cashflows with the new higher mortgage before going this route. Oh, and you'll likely need to wait 6 months from purchase before doing this to allow it to "season".
Repeat this process. It will seem slow at first, but those little streams of income will become larger faster as you keep doing this. I imagine this seems like a crap ton of work, and it can be, but like all things it gets easier the more you do it. If you use a property manager, those streams will be smaller for longer, but then you're just finding deals and doing a quick rehab on them and waiting to refinance. I can almost guarantee the first time you BRRRR anything (single family or multifamily) you'll be hooked when you realize you have a free house/building that gives you infinite ROI (some positive cash each month with zero of your own money in it). Fun times ahead.
Obviously, buying a property in California will be hard to cashflow, but easier in Indianapolis. Lots of variables to consider depending on area.
Post by: Spracne on December 10, 2020, 07:10:23 PM
Post by: KITNfury on December 10, 2020, 07:17:36 PM
Good job KITNfury, I think you are under selling your talent. Any dumbass with some extra cash can buy an index fund and win but not many people can do what you do IMO. Have you had any cases of non payment due to Covid job loss and inability to pay. I would think If this year didn’t break you as a landlord basically nothing can.Well thanks, but I think it's probably simpler than it reads in my long ass posts. There's a bit of drinking from a fire hose there. Index funds are easier though, no doubt. But they would have never got me out of a job after 4 years of investing in them.
Keep in mind that I'm not as in tune for reasons of non payment for the property under management vs what I self manage. I know there was some that didn't pay, but not a significant amount. With the property I manage, I have one right now having a tough time. Hoping to get some assistance through a covid program Kansas has in place. Thankfully it's mostly it's been ok, though.
Post by: KITNfury on December 10, 2020, 07:21:42 PM
KITN, do you have a high tolerance for BS? Seems like running a real estate empire by yourself would involve a high tolerance for BS.Haha I don't know. Didn't feel like I had high tolerance when I dealt with my old job's BS. But I also don't run everything by myself.
Post by: KITNfury on December 10, 2020, 07:25:22 PM
Or just take a baller vacationTaking 3-6 months worth of baller vacations per year is my dream goal. Hopefully I'm fortunate enough to actually get there.
Post by: Justwin on December 10, 2020, 07:48:03 PM
Math time!! To show plainly what I said above with nice round numbers. You buy a fixer for $50k. Being a fixer, you may or may not go to a traditional bank for it. Let's just assume you did, but IRL, just know there are other private lenders for this. Your down payment would be around 20% or $10k. You put $25k into it to get it all fixed up. Maybe you had that money or maybe it was lent. Doesn't matter, let's stay on topic. So all in, you and your lender have put $75k into it. But, now it's worth $100k. Banks will usually lend around 75% of the value of a property. What does this mean? You go to a new bank and refinance. They do the appraisal, and sure enough, it appraises for exactly $100k. So, they loan 75k on the property, which first goes to the previous lender to pay them out and what's left over goes to you which comes out to exactly your down payment. What are you left with? A free house that someone else will pay the mortgage for if you did it right. Take that money and do it again.
I have done that before with apartments too. So you're able to recycle your money over and over again. It just needs to positively cashflow so you don't lose the property to the bank. It's a longer process with apartments, but still do-able. The term you'll hear a lot is "value-add".
If I left anything out, please ask. I feel like most people stopped reading long before this sentence, so I'll stop here.
What is the rent on the rehabbed 100K property?
Post by: KITNfury on December 10, 2020, 08:13:04 PM
You would want to know market rent on a rehabbed house in whatever area you're in so that you know it would support the mortgage/taxes/insurance. A fully rehabbed house shouldn't have too much maintenance for at least 3-5 years, so that helps, and after that time rent will probably be higher.
Math time!! To show plainly what I said above with nice round numbers. You buy a fixer for $50k. Being a fixer, you may or may not go to a traditional bank for it. Let's just assume you did, but IRL, just know there are other private lenders for this. Your down payment would be around 20% or $10k. You put $25k into it to get it all fixed up. Maybe you had that money or maybe it was lent. Doesn't matter, let's stay on topic. So all in, you and your lender have put $75k into it. But, now it's worth $100k. Banks will usually lend around 75% of the value of a property. What does this mean? You go to a new bank and refinance. They do the appraisal, and sure enough, it appraises for exactly $100k. So, they loan 75k on the property, which first goes to the previous lender to pay them out and what's left over goes to you which comes out to exactly your down payment. What are you left with? A free house that someone else will pay the mortgage for if you did it right. Take that money and do it again.
I have done that before with apartments too. So you're able to recycle your money over and over again. It just needs to positively cashflow so you don't lose the property to the bank. It's a longer process with apartments, but still do-able. The term you'll hear a lot is "value-add".
If I left anything out, please ask. I feel like most people stopped reading long before this sentence, so I'll stop here.
What is the rent on the rehabbed 100K property?
But let's say around $900-1000/mo.
Post by: Kat Kid on December 10, 2020, 08:59:28 PM
Post by: wetwillie on December 10, 2020, 09:08:35 PM
KITN, I'm sure that must be fun and/or motivating to you and congrats on the real estate empire, but that all sounds miserable.
I agree and I think it makes it all the more impressive. I’d have a panic attack with that much debt.
Post by: Kat Kid on December 10, 2020, 09:22:39 PM
KITN, I'm sure that must be fun and/or motivating to you and congrats on the real estate empire, but that all sounds miserable.
I agree and I think it makes it all the more impressive. I’d have a panic attack with that much debt.
Yeah, my friend has 1 rental and it has sounded like an absolute nightmare and he is very handy and can do electrical, plumbing, carpentry etc.
Post by: catastrophe on December 10, 2020, 09:29:58 PM
I think that hits the nail on the head. If you read the success stories of like 30 year old millionaires that built an empire by 40 the common denominator is being comfortable with debt and aggressive in leveraging it. Of course, there are lots of untold failure stories as well, but I think the majority of people don’t get rich that way just because it’s overwhelming and they don’t enjoy the hustle.KITN, I'm sure that must be fun and/or motivating to you and congrats on the real estate empire, but that all sounds miserable.
I agree and I think it makes it all the more impressive. I’d have a panic attack with that much debt.
I actually have a coworker who sounds very similar to KITN and probably has enough passive income to retire now (with a middle class standard of living). The difference is she’s happy interacting with banks, renters, contractors, etc. and literally browses Zillow just for fun sometimes.
Post by: Spracne on December 10, 2020, 10:30:47 PM
KITN, I'm sure that must be fun and/or motivating to you and congrats on the real estate empire, but that all sounds miserable.
I agree and I think it makes it all the more impressive. I’d have a panic attack with that much debt.
This reminds me. @KITNfury, do you hold these properties in your personal name? Each held by a different LLC, personally guaranteed by you? What's the legal setup?
Post by: KITNfury on December 10, 2020, 10:50:24 PM
Each purchase has its own LLC. And yea I'm a personal guarantor on all of them.KITN, I'm sure that must be fun and/or motivating to you and congrats on the real estate empire, but that all sounds miserable.
I agree and I think it makes it all the more impressive. I’d have a panic attack with that much debt.
This reminds me. @KITNfury, do you hold these properties in your personal name? Each held by a different LLC, personally guaranteed by you? What's the legal setup?
Post by: KITNfury on December 10, 2020, 11:01:10 PM
It's not for everyone for sure. I have 7 figures in debt lol. But there's also plenty of equity in the properties.I think that hits the nail on the head. If you read the success stories of like 30 year old millionaires that built an empire by 40 the common denominator is being comfortable with debt and aggressive in leveraging it. Of course, there are lots of untold failure stories as well, but I think the majority of people don’t get rich that way just because it’s overwhelming and they don’t enjoy the hustle.KITN, I'm sure that must be fun and/or motivating to you and congrats on the real estate empire, but that all sounds miserable.
I agree and I think it makes it all the more impressive. I’d have a panic attack with that much debt.
I actually have a coworker who sounds very similar to KITN and probably has enough passive income to retire now (with a middle class standard of living). The difference is she’s happy interacting with banks, renters, contractors, etc. and literally browses Zillow just for fun sometimes.
I always felt like a typical job was soul sucking. I needed to be out from under other people. Something had to give, so I worked really hard the first couple years of investing, got smarter, it got way easier, and I grew. To me it was worth it to "retire" in my late 30s. I don't think someone should do it if they know it's not for them, but I think everyone should at least think about it.
Post by: steve dave on December 11, 2020, 05:58:50 AM
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Post by: KITNfury on December 11, 2020, 07:02:04 AM
If anyone has a “soul crushing” job/occupation/relationship/etc. for sure do something differentAgree. I've said many times that I MUST hate working for other people more than most people. I just couldn't ever be passionate about work because I was helping someone else grow their dream. Nobody is wrong for feeling different than me. For a long time I was jealous of people that did.
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Post by: catastrophe on December 12, 2020, 08:26:10 AM
Alright friends, it’s me again.Can we get a year in review with the real life market timing experiment?
I have been making tons of money with the stocks only go up plan, and am now going to stop trading my Roth IRA and want to make a mutual fund/etf portfolio.
Absolute minimum of S&P 500 index is 60%
The other 40% rules—
No bonds (for losers)
Want emerging markets exposure
Want international exposure
Not sure if I should have some sector exposure in single digit percentages (home builders, biotech, semi conductors etc) or do small cap or what or just keep it simple.
Also, let me be clear I made a Robin Hood account and bought in on June 8th my birthday and the recent market top and promptly lost 10% and have been doing super dumb crap constantly and managed to claw back to -4.8% by doing tons of other dumb crap, but occasionally buying OTM VXX calls and sweating them for a week until they go green. I am here to admit I am a total dumbass.
If anyone (Steve Dave or sdbro or brokercat69) wants to see my IRL RobinHood “portfolio” and help me extract max value from it I will definitely take their (maybe sys too or some finance bro I don’t know about) advice on this matter, but I don’t want to lay that all out here without someone actually offering some help and I’m more concerned with the retirement account than the RH because it is like 20x the value.
Post by: Kat Kid on December 12, 2020, 09:07:54 AM
IRA- mostly stopped trading but I am still in a bunch of stonks, overweight EM, overweight China, no bonds. I can break that stuff down further later if people care.
IRA Dec 2019-Dec 2020 = +30.6%
Robinhood I have mostly been a complete idiot but am still up 7.33% since June so doing about half as well as the market. Good lessons learned. Now the account mostly is stuff that I want to hold long term so I will still trade some dumb options and stuff, but this is where I have about half of my BTC and some energy stocks and banks that I hope will outperform going forward so we will see.
Post by: catastrophe on December 12, 2020, 01:06:18 PM
Vanguard regular investments +24%
Wife’s Vanguard target retirement fund IRA: +17.9%
529 (last stock purchase in Aug. 2018): +52.5% :sdeek:
I’m super curious how my 401k did since I made most of my contributions RIGHT before the market tanked (so basically the worst possible time), but this weekend is website maintenance weekend I guess. :(
Post by: Spracne on December 12, 2020, 01:22:32 PM
Interesting! I was mainly asking because of the strategy of moving money to cash then back to stocks. My performance is all over the place. Below is all Dec. 2019-20.
Vanguard regular investments +24%
Wife’s Vanguard target retirement fund IRA: +17.9%
529 (last stock purchase in Aug. 2018): +52.5% :sdeek:
I’m super curious how my 401k did since I made most of my contributions RIGHT before the market tanked (so basically the worst possible time), but this weekend is website maintenance weekend I guess. :(
Why do you hate dollar-cost averaging? Btw, looks like my 401(k) is +24.37% over the past 12 months. I suspect your "Vanguard regular investments" are quite similar to how I've structured my 401(k).
Post by: Phil Titola on December 12, 2020, 01:49:35 PM
KITN, I'm sure that must be fun and/or motivating to you and congrats on the real estate empire, but that all sounds miserable.
I agree and I think it makes it all the more impressive. I’d have a panic attack with that much debt.
Yeah, my friend has 1 rental and it has sounded like an absolute nightmare and he is very handy and can do electrical, plumbing, carpentry etc.
Had one 5 bedroom in Manhattan. Charged $500 a bedroom and still hated every second of it. Not for me. Never again.
Post by: catastrophe on December 12, 2020, 01:49:37 PM
Also someone in here earlier said lump sum was better. And according to Google I guess Vanguard did a study where lump sum investing outperformed dollar cost averaging 66% of the time.
Post by: Spracne on December 12, 2020, 01:58:35 PM
With 529s I feel more urgency since they’ve got less than 20 years to grow (unless you start them before conception I guess).
Also someone in here earlier said lump sum was better. And according to Google I guess Vanguard did a study where lump sum investing outperformed dollar cost averaging 66% of the time.
Second question: I know you've dabbled in the back-door Roth stuff. What's the limit for what you can convert? I'm stupidly sitting on a The Hill of cash. Maybe I'll buy some rentals or something...
Post by: catastrophe on December 12, 2020, 02:14:43 PM
Post by: catastrophe on December 12, 2020, 02:16:28 PM
Post by: Phil Titola on December 12, 2020, 02:22:26 PM
My uncle just retired, bought his and husands dream place, and next month diagnosed with stage 4 cancer. eff waiting for retirement.
Post by: Spracne on December 12, 2020, 02:23:52 PM
No limit, but gains you made in the IRA are taxable when it moves to a Roth. So timing can be an issue if you have made a lot and expect to be in a lower tax bracket relatively soon. Other than that I’m a fan of just biting the bullet and doing it ASAP.
But I am limited by individual IRA contribution limits, meaning I can't just dump in 100K and then roll it over into a Roth IRA, correct?
Post by: catastrophe on December 12, 2020, 02:30:51 PM
Post by: michigancat on December 12, 2020, 02:32:12 PM
With 529s I feel more urgency since they’ve got less than 20 years to grow (unless you start them before conception I guess).
Also someone in here earlier said lump sum was better. And according to Google I guess Vanguard did a study where lump sum investing outperformed dollar cost averaging 66% of the time.
Second question: I know you've dabbled in the back-door Roth stuff. What's the limit for what you can convert? I'm stupidly sitting on a The Hill of cash. Maybe I'll buy some rentals or something...
Seriously look into hiring a fee-based financial advisor if you haven't already. Not for a lot of try-hards in this thread but it's been good for me.
Post by: Spracne on December 12, 2020, 02:40:18 PM
With 529s I feel more urgency since they’ve got less than 20 years to grow (unless you start them before conception I guess).
Also someone in here earlier said lump sum was better. And according to Google I guess Vanguard did a study where lump sum investing outperformed dollar cost averaging 66% of the time.
Second question: I know you've dabbled in the back-door Roth stuff. What's the limit for what you can convert? I'm stupidly sitting on a The Hill of cash. Maybe I'll buy some rentals or something...
Seriously look into hiring a fee-based financial advisor if you haven't already. Not for a lot of try-hards in this thread but it's been good for me.
Yeah, I should do that. I have financial advisors hitting up my work phone a few times a month, but I always shut it down b/c eff you, don't interrupt my day with your cold calls. There are just so many of them, and I have no clue how to tell who is the real deal.
Post by: michigancat on December 12, 2020, 02:49:52 PM
With 529s I feel more urgency since they’ve got less than 20 years to grow (unless you start them before conception I guess).
Also someone in here earlier said lump sum was better. And according to Google I guess Vanguard did a study where lump sum investing outperformed dollar cost averaging 66% of the time.
Second question: I know you've dabbled in the back-door Roth stuff. What's the limit for what you can convert? I'm stupidly sitting on a The Hill of cash. Maybe I'll buy some rentals or something...
Seriously look into hiring a fee-based financial advisor if you haven't already. Not for a lot of try-hards in this thread but it's been good for me.
Yeah, I should do that. I have financial advisors hitting up my work phone a few times a month, but I always shut it down b/c eff you, don't interrupt my day with your cold calls. There are just so many of them, and I have no clue how to tell who is the real deal.
Ask around for referrals but look for a few fee-based fiduciaries and set up calls with two or three. Being fee-based means they won't try to sell you anything, they only get paid by you and I'm guessing people giving you cold calls want to sell shitty life insurance or something. I think most give the option of a one-time assessment and financial plan and that's it or you can continue after the initial plan is given. We chose to stay with monthly and are glad we did even if we could figure out a lot on our own after the initial plan.
Yelp was actually a pretty good resource for finding advisors because I could tell there were people in similar situations I was in working with the folks I ultimately met with. Some seemed to focus on wealthier people or like startup founders, some focused on getting people out of deep debt, and we found someone in between that had clearly helped people through similar situations we were in.
Post by: steve dave on December 12, 2020, 02:54:50 PM
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Post by: Spracne on December 12, 2020, 03:07:31 PM
Never buy whole life or an annuity of any kind
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Well yeah. Ideally, I just want someone who I pay an hourly fee to for the time they actually spend thinking/working about my stuff. Also, fiduciary is important.
Post by: steve dave on December 12, 2020, 03:14:03 PM
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Post by: michigancat on December 12, 2020, 03:15:30 PM
Never buy whole life or an annuity of any kind
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Well yeah. Ideally, I just want someone who I pay an hourly fee to for the time they actually spend thinking/working about my stuff. Also, fiduciary is important.
That might be tough but yeah it's ideal. The pitch we got is that if you don't use them for like six months or a year they need to spend a lot of extra time "relearning" your situation which is probably a mixture of truth and salesmanship but mostly salesmanship.
Post by: ben ji on December 12, 2020, 03:30:41 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on December 12, 2020, 05:01:53 PM
Post by: WillieWatanabe on December 12, 2020, 05:44:20 PM
My FIL works for Primerica on the side and wants to get us on some term life.
From my limited knowledge, term is the way to go? Just let him handle it or shop around to another company? I believe i have some coverage through work but obvi not enough. If it matters both me and ms. ww work and soon ms ww will be the breadwinner by a good margin.
Post by: steve dave on December 12, 2020, 06:16:34 PM
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Post by: WillieWatanabe on December 12, 2020, 06:59:15 PM
Yes, term. I have three levels 10, 20, 30 years.
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Thanks. I was a bit confused why you had different tiers. But then I found a good article talking about the benefits of laddering the coverage. I think that option matches up with our situation pretty well and may look into that.
Post by: sys on December 12, 2020, 07:33:56 PM
several states teacher pension system kicks people off of social security.
yeah, a lot of teachers on the missouri side of my family. pretty interesting the history of that.
Post by: sys on December 12, 2020, 07:46:52 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on December 12, 2020, 07:48:28 PM
several states teacher pension system kicks people off of social security.
yeah, a lot of teachers on the missouri side of my family. pretty interesting the history of that.
Illinois too, which isn't so bad if you think the Illinois system never fails as it is very generous, but for people in most of the other states it is awful.
Post by: steve dave on December 12, 2020, 08:20:08 PM
the roi on my house is like huge multiples of any stock i've owned. like all the sober responsible financial advice is to live within your means and whatnot, but i would have made giant money if instead of the nice modest house i purchased i'd have bought the most expensive property i could have afforded never invested in anything else.Owning huge exorbitant property irl never fails to make you rich
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Post by: steve dave on December 12, 2020, 08:20:26 PM
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Post by: Justwin on December 12, 2020, 08:22:42 PM
Not everyone has that. In fact, in several states teacher pension system kicks people off of social security. Not Kansas, but still pretty garbage tbh.
You think it's shitty for someone to not be allowed to benefit from Social Security when they didn't contribute to it? The states don't kick people off Social Security. The federal government does.
The states set up agreements with the federal government so that people in their pension systems don't have to pay the Social Security portion of FICA taxes. The money that would have gone to Social Security then goes to fund the pension system. My wife's mom had this when she taught in Nevada. The return on what she put in for NVPERS is a lot greater than what she would have got from Social Security.
Post by: Spracne on December 12, 2020, 08:36:00 PM
the roi on my house is like huge multiples of any stock i've owned. like all the sober responsible financial advice is to live within your means and whatnot, but i would have made giant money if instead of the nice modest house i purchased i'd have bought the most expensive property i could have afforded never invested in anything else.Owning huge exorbitant property irl never fails to make you rich
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Well that settles it. I'm doubling my house budget.
Post by: catastrophe on December 12, 2020, 08:53:48 PM
the roi on my house is like huge multiples of any stock i've owned. like all the sober responsible financial advice is to live within your means and whatnot, but i would have made giant money if instead of the nice modest house i purchased i'd have bought the most expensive property i could have afforded never invested in anything else.This could easily be true for a property that cost a couple hundred thousand. But if you bought a $1-2 million home, I’m pretty confident it’s not gonna consistently appreciate 7-10% a year.
Post by: steve dave on December 12, 2020, 09:05:09 PM
the roi on my house is like huge multiples of any stock i've owned. like all the sober responsible financial advice is to live within your means and whatnot, but i would have made giant money if instead of the nice modest house i purchased i'd have bought the most expensive property i could have afforded never invested in anything else.Owning huge exorbitant property irl never fails to make you rich
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Well that settles it. I'm doubling my house budget.
that is a winning move like 99% of the time
Post by: wetwillie on December 12, 2020, 09:26:41 PM
Post by: steve dave on December 12, 2020, 09:36:41 PM
Post by: catastrophe on December 12, 2020, 09:41:49 PM
Post by: steve dave on December 12, 2020, 09:45:03 PM
Post by: wetwillie on December 12, 2020, 10:04:16 PM
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on December 12, 2020, 10:26:42 PM
Post by: KITNfury on December 12, 2020, 10:32:21 PM
A 400k home in 2012 is now a 800k home in 2020? Holy crap I think JOCO has seen maybe half that at most and I thought it was crazy.Likely a home on the coast. They typically are more volatile in value swings. That said, I bought a fairly basic 3 bed in OP in 2008 after the crash for 125, probably worth over 200 now. But I put a lot of work into it.
Post by: Kat Kid on December 12, 2020, 11:00:08 PM
The teachers in a state that did not opt in to social security are at the whim of their state government not fulfilling their obligations and that is a much more likely scenario than Uncle Sam.Not everyone has that. In fact, in several states teacher pension system kicks people off of social security. Not Kansas, but still pretty garbage tbh.
You think it's shitty for someone to not be allowed to benefit from Social Security when they didn't contribute to it? The states don't kick people off Social Security. The federal government does.
The states set up agreements with the federal government so that people in their pension systems don't have to pay the Social Security portion of FICA taxes. The money that would have gone to Social Security then goes to fund the pension system. My wife's mom had this when she taught in Nevada. The return on what she put in for NVPERS is a lot greater than what she would have got from Social Security.
Illinois is a state that opted out and it worked out fantastically for my father in law, but I would be at least a little nervous if I were a mid career teacher. But even Illinois isn’t the state that I am thinking of as being a worst case scenario, that would be Kentucky where the state has perpetually underfunded the pension, teachers have much lower average salaries and a much less generous pension than most illinois teachers and on top of that the state seems even more hell bent on not funding it than Illinois.
Also since you brought up Nevada my sister in law worked there for a few years, the Clark County education funding was a nightmare although I honestly don’t know how specific that was to LV vs the rest of the state. I will ask her about what the LV pension looks like for someone that leaves before fully vested, which is another huge issue.
In Kansas I have a decent pension, social security, and have saved money for retirement with a Roth. Teachers don’t get a great salary, but the financial security of knowing that I have 3 different retirement savings is good piece of mind that is worth more than the actual cash benefit and I also love the job.
So again, while it doesn’t impact me I think it is a pretty bad deal for a lot of teachers (though some have no doubt done better).
Post by: catastrophe on December 12, 2020, 11:14:52 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on December 12, 2020, 11:40:03 PM
How I Invest My Money by Josh Brown
A series of short pieces by a variety of financial industry people describing how they invest their own money. Great read.
An even better book is The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel and it has 20 short chapters with one lesson and some really great numbers that drive home notions that I had in my head but still very powerful lessons, like about compounding interest, or that stonks only go up, but also really good insight in to why people make financial decisions based on their own experiences and the context they are in.
Post by: sys on December 13, 2020, 01:32:19 AM
This could easily be true for a property that cost a couple hundred thousand. But if you bought a $1-2 million home, I’m pretty confident it’s not gonna consistently appreciate 7-10% a year.
it's the leverage that does it.
Post by: sys on December 13, 2020, 01:37:43 AM
Post by: IPA4Me on December 13, 2020, 05:40:47 AM
this is maybe getting more political, but people don't realize what an amazing gift from the govt the 30 year fixed rate mortgage is. these do not exist in most countries!There's was talk of removing it within the last few years
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Post by: puniraptor on December 13, 2020, 05:58:53 AM
Post by: puniraptor on December 13, 2020, 06:00:22 AM
My understanding is most mortgages here (Japan) are 40+ but the rate is dependent on your personal situation. Like if you took a lower paying job or lost your job your rate would go up. Sounds like a terrifying enslaving death spiral.Nope 35 years is the cap.
Post by: wetwillie on December 13, 2020, 06:46:38 AM
this is maybe getting more political, but people don't realize what an amazing gift from the govt the 30 year fixed rate mortgage is. these do not exist in most countries!There's was talk of removing it within the last few years
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What does the govt have to do with mortgage length?
Post by: KITNfury on December 13, 2020, 06:51:25 AM
Fannie /Freddiethis is maybe getting more political, but people don't realize what an amazing gift from the govt the 30 year fixed rate mortgage is. these do not exist in most countries!There's was talk of removing it within the last few years
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What does the govt have to do with mortgage length?
Post by: IPA4Me on December 13, 2020, 06:52:16 AM
Yep. They're something like 80% of the 30-year market. If they drop them, the 30-year loan is gone.Fannie /Freddiethis is maybe getting more political, but people don't realize what an amazing gift from the govt the 30 year fixed rate mortgage is. these do not exist in most countries!There's was talk of removing it within the last few years
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What does the govt have to do with mortgage length?
https://www.americanbanker.com/opinion/dont-let-the-30-year-mortgage-sway-housing-policy
Post by: wetwillie on December 13, 2020, 07:00:09 AM
Yep. They're something like 80% of the 30-year market. If they drop them, the 30-year loan is gone.Fannie /Freddiethis is maybe getting more political, but people don't realize what an amazing gift from the govt the 30 year fixed rate mortgage is. these do not exist in most countries!There's was talk of removing it within the last few years
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What does the govt have to do with mortgage length?
https://www.americanbanker.com/opinion/dont-let-the-30-year-mortgage-sway-housing-policy
Didn’t realize that, so the thought is the marketplace without federal backing would only be willing to take on 15 years or less?
Post by: IPA4Me on December 13, 2020, 07:03:01 AM
Post by: catastrophe on December 13, 2020, 07:14:58 AM
I was wondering what you would do to calculate the actual return, but even looking purely at what you put in vs. get back, does that take into account the interest paid and property tax? I guess if you wanted to be super precise, you’d also factor in cost of maintenance into the ROI equation since that’s an expense renters don’t have.This could easily be true for a property that cost a couple hundred thousand. But if you bought a $1-2 million home, I’m pretty confident it’s not gonna consistently appreciate 7-10% a year.
it's the leverage that does it.
Post by: chum1 on December 13, 2020, 07:15:56 AM
so the thought is the marketplace without federal backing would only be willing to take on 15 years or less?
Yep. That was the marketplace before the feds starting backing them.
Which means you had to have quite a bit of money in order to afford a home.
To continue getting political, I suppose there's probably a reason home ownership comes up in discussions of wealth inequality.
Post by: IPA4Me on December 13, 2020, 07:17:15 AM
The flip side is the 30 year mortgage increases home prices by driving demand.so the thought is the marketplace without federal backing would only be willing to take on 15 years or less?
Yep. That was the marketplace before the feds starting backing them.
Which means you had to have quite a bit of money in order to afford a home.
To continue getting political, I suppose there's probably a reason home ownership comes up in discussions of wealth inequality.
Post by: Phil Titola on December 13, 2020, 08:33:56 AM
Post by: IPA4Me on December 13, 2020, 08:38:27 AM
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 09:50:22 AM
so the thought is the marketplace without federal backing would only be willing to take on 15 years or less?
Yep. That was the marketplace before the feds starting backing them.
Which means you had to have quite a bit of money in order to afford a home.
To continue getting political, I suppose there's probably a reason home ownership comes up in discussions of wealth inequality.
Even with a thirty year fixed the amount of capital you need is still high enough to exclude a large portion of people. It's kinda messed up!
Post by: sys on December 13, 2020, 10:10:05 AM
I was wondering what you would do to calculate the actual return, but even looking purely at what you put in vs. get back, does that take into account the interest paid and property tax? I guess if you wanted to be super precise, you’d also factor in cost of maintenance into the ROI equation since that’s an expense renters don’t have.
i was not attempting to be precise, but i think if you were to try a real accounting that you'd have to calculate your all-in costs minus an imputed rent. all with some sort of discount rate for when the costs and offsets occurred.
in my case, my imputed rent is higher than my cost of ownership, so while i don't have a precise figure, i'm pretty confident in the general direction.
Post by: sys on December 13, 2020, 10:12:36 AM
What does the govt have to do with mortgage length?
the rate wouldn't be fixed either. and they'd be a lot more rigorous about down payments.
Post by: IPA4Me on December 13, 2020, 10:16:40 AM
Post by: KITNfury on December 13, 2020, 11:14:51 AM
I think fha loan is 3.5% down. I understand some people can't scrape that together due to very low income, but that's pretty freaking low barrier for most people that spend wisely.so the thought is the marketplace without federal backing would only be willing to take on 15 years or less?
Yep. That was the marketplace before the feds starting backing them.
Which means you had to have quite a bit of money in order to afford a home.
To continue getting political, I suppose there's probably a reason home ownership comes up in discussions of wealth inequality.
Even with a thirty year fixed the amount of capital you need is still high enough to exclude a large portion of people. It's kinda messed up!
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 11:26:13 AM
I think fha loan is 3.5% down. I understand some people can't scrape that together due to very low income, but that's pretty freaking low barrier for most people that spend wisely.so the thought is the marketplace without federal backing would only be willing to take on 15 years or less?
Yep. That was the marketplace before the feds starting backing them.
Which means you had to have quite a bit of money in order to afford a home.
To continue getting political, I suppose there's probably a reason home ownership comes up in discussions of wealth inequality.
Even with a thirty year fixed the amount of capital you need is still high enough to exclude a large portion of people. It's kinda messed up!
It's not low at all when the median sale price in the county is over a million and then you'd have a ridiculously high payment. And I don't even think the FHA will give loans high enough.
https://www.bayareamarketreports.com/trend/oakland-berkeley-real-estate-market-conditions-prices
Post by: kim carnes on December 13, 2020, 11:28:42 AM
I think fha loan is 3.5% down. I understand some people can't scrape that together due to very low income, but that's pretty freaking low barrier for most people that spend wisely.so the thought is the marketplace without federal backing would only be willing to take on 15 years or less?
Yep. That was the marketplace before the feds starting backing them.
Which means you had to have quite a bit of money in order to afford a home.
To continue getting political, I suppose there's probably a reason home ownership comes up in discussions of wealth inequality.
Even with a thirty year fixed the amount of capital you need is still high enough to exclude a large portion of people. It's kinda messed up!
It's not low at all when the median sale price in the county is over a million and then you'd have a ridiculously high payment. And I don't even think the FHA will give loans high enough.
https://www.bayareamarketreports.com/trend/oakland-berkeley-real-estate-market-conditions-prices
I’d recommend anyone trying to get an fha loan gtfo of the Bay Area.
Post by: Kat Kid on December 13, 2020, 11:30:10 AM
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 11:30:31 AM
But yeah
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 11:31:15 AM
No offense Rusty but the Bay Area is the most extreme example in the most extreme state so not really relevant.It's the most populous state too
Post by: kim carnes on December 13, 2020, 11:34:40 AM
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 11:37:18 AM
I’m not sure why home owners have such a hard on for increasing home prices. Unless you plan on retiring to a lower cost area or own income properties I’m not really sure you’re benefiting much.
Everyone wants more money, this isn't exactly a brain buster
Post by: sys on December 13, 2020, 11:45:23 AM
It's not low at all when the median sale price in the county is over a million and then you'd have a ridiculously high payment. And I don't even think the FHA will give loans high enough.
https://www.bayareamarketreports.com/trend/oakland-berkeley-real-estate-market-conditions-prices
that's a housing availability issue, not a loan availability issue.
Post by: sys on December 13, 2020, 11:48:18 AM
I guess same political disclaimer, on one hand it's fantastic (fixed for 30 years and at the current rates), on the other kind of weird to have something so focused on home ownership.
yeah, i'm not well-versed on all the considerations, but i'm not at all convinced it's good policy for the country. it is, however, a fantastic opportunity to take free money that the govt is giving away for people that are in position to take advantage of it.
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 11:55:46 AM
It's not low at all when the median sale price in the county is over a million and then you'd have a ridiculously high payment. And I don't even think the FHA will give loans high enough.
https://www.bayareamarketreports.com/trend/oakland-berkeley-real-estate-market-conditions-prices
that's a housing availability issue, not a loan availability issue.
Ok thanks for the lesson
Post by: kim carnes on December 13, 2020, 11:56:08 AM
I’m not sure why home owners have such a hard on for increasing home prices. Unless you plan on retiring to a lower cost area or own income properties I’m not really sure you’re benefiting much.
Everyone wants more money, this isn't exactly a brain buster
As a whole a lot of people are misinformed about the benefit. If you paid 250k for a coastal home in socal 30 yrs ago and sell it for 3-4 million now and move somewhere cheaper then sure, you did great. That’s not the case for like 99% of people. You need to have lived in a market that outperformed the overall market (like the bay, coastal socal, Manhattan, ski towns, vacation areas, etc.)
Post by: sys on December 13, 2020, 12:01:38 PM
Ok thanks for the lesson
you were complaining about it as if it was.
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 12:06:57 PM
People also like the idea of maintaining intergenerational wealth inequality and social structureI’m not sure why home owners have such a hard on for increasing home prices. Unless you plan on retiring to a lower cost area or own income properties I’m not really sure you’re benefiting much.
Everyone wants more money, this isn't exactly a brain buster
As a whole a lot of people are misinformed about the benefit. If you paid 250k for a coastal home in socal 30 yrs ago and sell it for 3-4 million now and move somewhere cheaper then sure, you did great. That’s not the case for like 99% of people. You need to have lived in a market that outperformed the overall market (like the bay, coastal socal, Manhattan, ski towns, vacation areas, etc.)
Post by: KITNfury on December 13, 2020, 12:14:50 PM
I’m not sure why home owners have such a hard on for increasing home prices. Unless you plan on retiring to a lower cost area or own income properties I’m not really sure you’re benefiting much.It's good for net worth obviously, and allows accessible cash of needed through things like heloc lending, but overall, you're right. Property taxes will likely climb. Things of this nature is why a personal home is really a liability, not an asset. Rich dad 101.
Post by: KITNfury on December 13, 2020, 12:17:42 PM
. People don't give a crap about maintaining wealth inequality, but they care a lot about maintaining their wealth.People also like the idea of maintaining intergenerational wealth inequality and social structureI’m not sure why home owners have such a hard on for increasing home prices. Unless you plan on retiring to a lower cost area or own income properties I’m not really sure you’re benefiting much.
Everyone wants more money, this isn't exactly a brain buster
As a whole a lot of people are misinformed about the benefit. If you paid 250k for a coastal home in socal 30 yrs ago and sell it for 3-4 million now and move somewhere cheaper then sure, you did great. That’s not the case for like 99% of people. You need to have lived in a market that outperformed the overall market (like the bay, coastal socal, Manhattan, ski towns, vacation areas, etc.)
Post by: wetwillie on December 13, 2020, 12:21:08 PM
. People don't give a crap about maintaining wealth inequality, but they care a lot about maintaining their wealth.People also like the idea of maintaining intergenerational wealth inequality and social structureI’m not sure why home owners have such a hard on for increasing home prices. Unless you plan on retiring to a lower cost area or own income properties I’m not really sure you’re benefiting much.
Everyone wants more money, this isn't exactly a brain buster
As a whole a lot of people are misinformed about the benefit. If you paid 250k for a coastal home in socal 30 yrs ago and sell it for 3-4 million now and move somewhere cheaper then sure, you did great. That’s not the case for like 99% of people. You need to have lived in a market that outperformed the overall market (like the bay, coastal socal, Manhattan, ski towns, vacation areas, etc.)
Well you kind of just proved his point haha
Post by: kim carnes on December 13, 2020, 12:23:06 PM
People also like the idea of maintaining intergenerational wealth inequality and social structureI’m not sure why home owners have such a hard on for increasing home prices. Unless you plan on retiring to a lower cost area or own income properties I’m not really sure you’re benefiting much.
Everyone wants more money, this isn't exactly a brain buster
As a whole a lot of people are misinformed about the benefit. If you paid 250k for a coastal home in socal 30 yrs ago and sell it for 3-4 million now and move somewhere cheaper then sure, you did great. That’s not the case for like 99% of people. You need to have lived in a market that outperformed the overall market (like the bay, coastal socal, Manhattan, ski towns, vacation areas, etc.)
No worries. A 30 hr work week, paid vacation, paid paternity leave, universal income, and more regulations should get the supply shortage fixed here soon.
Post by: KITNfury on December 13, 2020, 12:27:50 PM
I'm either misunderstanding him or you then. I took his comment to mean people are interested in staying wealthy at the expense of people less fortunate. I think people simply want to maintain their wealth and are mostly complacent about others people's wealth or lack thereof.. People don't give a crap about maintaining wealth inequality, but they care a lot about maintaining their wealth.People also like the idea of maintaining intergenerational wealth inequality and social structureI’m not sure why home owners have such a hard on for increasing home prices. Unless you plan on retiring to a lower cost area or own income properties I’m not really sure you’re benefiting much.
Everyone wants more money, this isn't exactly a brain buster
As a whole a lot of people are misinformed about the benefit. If you paid 250k for a coastal home in socal 30 yrs ago and sell it for 3-4 million now and move somewhere cheaper then sure, you did great. That’s not the case for like 99% of people. You need to have lived in a market that outperformed the overall market (like the bay, coastal socal, Manhattan, ski towns, vacation areas, etc.)
Well you kind of just proved his point haha
Unless you think wealth only comes in a predatory nature by taking advantage of others.
Post by: sys on December 13, 2020, 12:28:03 PM
No worries. A 30 hr work week, paid vacation, paid paternity leave, universal income, and more regulations should get the supply shortage fixed here soon.
none of those things, unless you're including zoning and permitting under regulations, has anything to do with the lack/price of housing in california
Post by: kim carnes on December 13, 2020, 12:29:58 PM
Post by: IPA4Me on December 13, 2020, 12:30:51 PM
Post by: kim carnes on December 13, 2020, 12:33:18 PM
No worries. A 30 hr work week, paid vacation, paid paternity leave, universal income, and more regulations should get the supply shortage fixed here soon.
none of those things, unless you're including zoning and permitting under regulations, has anything to do with the lack/price of housing in california
No crap. Mich thinks all of the problems in this country/world are easily cured through socialism.
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 12:34:50 PM
I'm either misunderstanding him or you then. I took his comment to mean people are interested in staying wealthy at the expense of people less fortunate. I think people simply want to maintain their wealth and are mostly complacent about others people's wealth or lack thereof.. People don't give a crap about maintaining wealth inequality, but they care a lot about maintaining their wealth.People also like the idea of maintaining intergenerational wealth inequality and social structureI’m not sure why home owners have such a hard on for increasing home prices. Unless you plan on retiring to a lower cost area or own income properties I’m not really sure you’re benefiting much.
Everyone wants more money, this isn't exactly a brain buster
As a whole a lot of people are misinformed about the benefit. If you paid 250k for a coastal home in socal 30 yrs ago and sell it for 3-4 million now and move somewhere cheaper then sure, you did great. That’s not the case for like 99% of people. You need to have lived in a market that outperformed the overall market (like the bay, coastal socal, Manhattan, ski towns, vacation areas, etc.)
Well you kind of just proved his point haha
Home owners might not care if poor people have easier access to home ownership but they will absolutely shut any measure to expand it if it impacts their own property values.
And yeah, I think a lot of people like knowing there is a class lower than them whether or not they want to admit it.
Post by: KITNfury on December 13, 2020, 12:42:26 PM
Of course people don't typically want to be forced to take a negative hit to their net worth so other people can own a home easier. That's not the same as regularly and actively trying to keep people down, it's just defending what is yours first and foremost. Basically financial NIMBYI'm either misunderstanding him or you then. I took his comment to mean people are interested in staying wealthy at the expense of people less fortunate. I think people simply want to maintain their wealth and are mostly complacent about others people's wealth or lack thereof.. People don't give a crap about maintaining wealth inequality, but they care a lot about maintaining their wealth.People also like the idea of maintaining intergenerational wealth inequality and social structureI’m not sure why home owners have such a hard on for increasing home prices. Unless you plan on retiring to a lower cost area or own income properties I’m not really sure you’re benefiting much.
Everyone wants more money, this isn't exactly a brain buster
As a whole a lot of people are misinformed about the benefit. If you paid 250k for a coastal home in socal 30 yrs ago and sell it for 3-4 million now and move somewhere cheaper then sure, you did great. That’s not the case for like 99% of people. You need to have lived in a market that outperformed the overall market (like the bay, coastal socal, Manhattan, ski towns, vacation areas, etc.)
Well you kind of just proved his point haha
Home owners might not care if poor people have easier access to home ownership but they will absolutely shut any measure to expand it if it impacts their own property values.
And yeah, I think a lot of people like knowing there is a class lower than them whether or not they want to admit it.
Post by: kim carnes on December 13, 2020, 12:43:01 PM
I'm either misunderstanding him or you then. I took his comment to mean people are interested in staying wealthy at the expense of people less fortunate. I think people simply want to maintain their wealth and are mostly complacent about others people's wealth or lack thereof.. People don't give a crap about maintaining wealth inequality, but they care a lot about maintaining their wealth.People also like the idea of maintaining intergenerational wealth inequality and social structureI’m not sure why home owners have such a hard on for increasing home prices. Unless you plan on retiring to a lower cost area or own income properties I’m not really sure you’re benefiting much.
Everyone wants more money, this isn't exactly a brain buster
As a whole a lot of people are misinformed about the benefit. If you paid 250k for a coastal home in socal 30 yrs ago and sell it for 3-4 million now and move somewhere cheaper then sure, you did great. That’s not the case for like 99% of people. You need to have lived in a market that outperformed the overall market (like the bay, coastal socal, Manhattan, ski towns, vacation areas, etc.)
Well you kind of just proved his point haha
Home owners might not care if poor people have easier access to home ownership but they will absolutely shut any measure to expand it if it impacts their own property values.
And yeah, I think a lot of people like knowing there is a class lower than them whether or not they want to admit it.
Lmao, is that really what you think is going on?
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 12:43:17 PM
No matter what, someone needs to build a shitload of housing all over CaliforniaNo worries. A 30 hr work week, paid vacation, paid paternity leave, universal income, and more regulations should get the supply shortage fixed here soon.
none of those things, unless you're including zoning and permitting under regulations, has anything to do with the lack/price of housing in california
No crap. Mich thinks all of the problems in this country/world are easily cured through socialism.
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 12:47:18 PM
Of course people don't typically want to be forced to take a negative hit to their net worth so other people can own a home easier. That's not the same as regularly and actively trying to keep people down, it's just defending what is yours first and foremost. Basically financial NIMBYI'm either misunderstanding him or you then. I took his comment to mean people are interested in staying wealthy at the expense of people less fortunate. I think people simply want to maintain their wealth and are mostly complacent about others people's wealth or lack thereof.. People don't give a crap about maintaining wealth inequality, but they care a lot about maintaining their wealth.People also like the idea of maintaining intergenerational wealth inequality and social structureI’m not sure why home owners have such a hard on for increasing home prices. Unless you plan on retiring to a lower cost area or own income properties I’m not really sure you’re benefiting much.
Everyone wants more money, this isn't exactly a brain buster
As a whole a lot of people are misinformed about the benefit. If you paid 250k for a coastal home in socal 30 yrs ago and sell it for 3-4 million now and move somewhere cheaper then sure, you did great. That’s not the case for like 99% of people. You need to have lived in a market that outperformed the overall market (like the bay, coastal socal, Manhattan, ski towns, vacation areas, etc.)
Well you kind of just proved his point haha
Home owners might not care if poor people have easier access to home ownership but they will absolutely shut any measure to expand it if it impacts their own property values.
And yeah, I think a lot of people like knowing there is a class lower than them whether or not they want to admit it.
Might be different intentions but the results are the same
Post by: Phil Titola on December 13, 2020, 12:48:48 PM
Post by: KITNfury on December 13, 2020, 12:50:46 PM
Wealth inequality is always going to be a thing. Bezos is a better businessman than I am, we weren't created equal. It is what it is. Can't fight that, just do what you can do to improve your situation.Of course people don't typically want to be forced to take a negative hit to their net worth so other people can own a home easier. That's not the same as regularly and actively trying to keep people down, it's just defending what is yours first and foremost. Basically financial NIMBYI'm either misunderstanding him or you then. I took his comment to mean people are interested in staying wealthy at the expense of people less fortunate. I think people simply want to maintain their wealth and are mostly complacent about others people's wealth or lack thereof.. People don't give a crap about maintaining wealth inequality, but they care a lot about maintaining their wealth.People also like the idea of maintaining intergenerational wealth inequality and social structureI’m not sure why home owners have such a hard on for increasing home prices. Unless you plan on retiring to a lower cost area or own income properties I’m not really sure you’re benefiting much.
Everyone wants more money, this isn't exactly a brain buster
As a whole a lot of people are misinformed about the benefit. If you paid 250k for a coastal home in socal 30 yrs ago and sell it for 3-4 million now and move somewhere cheaper then sure, you did great. That’s not the case for like 99% of people. You need to have lived in a market that outperformed the overall market (like the bay, coastal socal, Manhattan, ski towns, vacation areas, etc.)
Well you kind of just proved his point haha
Home owners might not care if poor people have easier access to home ownership but they will absolutely shut any measure to expand it if it impacts their own property values.
And yeah, I think a lot of people like knowing there is a class lower than them whether or not they want to admit it.
Might be different intentions but the results are the same
Post by: sys on December 13, 2020, 12:53:23 PM
What do you investing pros do with kansas farmland you acquire via inheritance that you have no desire to have?
i have no claim to expertise, but i'd sell it the next time land prices go wild.
Post by: kim carnes on December 13, 2020, 12:53:35 PM
No matter what, someone needs to build a shitload of housing all over CaliforniaNo worries. A 30 hr work week, paid vacation, paid paternity leave, universal income, and more regulations should get the supply shortage fixed here soon.
none of those things, unless you're including zoning and permitting under regulations, has anything to do with the lack/price of housing in california
No crap. Mich thinks all of the problems in this country/world are easily cured through socialism.
I agree but it’s never going to happen. Even if construction became far more aggressive it would take like an entire generation to fix the problem. Also problematic is that lower prices would assuredly attract even more people.
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 12:56:03 PM
Wealth inequality is always going to be a thing. Bezos is a better businessman than I am, we weren't created equal. It is what it is. Can't fight that, just do what you can do to improve your situation.
I mean we have policies that maintain wealth inequality. We can change those policies
Post by: wetwillie on December 13, 2020, 12:58:05 PM
What do you investing pros do with kansas farmland you acquire via inheritance that you have no desire to have?
You enroll it in the CRP program, collect the annual payment, and give wetwillie permission to hunt it.
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 12:59:56 PM
No matter what, someone needs to build a shitload of housing all over CaliforniaNo worries. A 30 hr work week, paid vacation, paid paternity leave, universal income, and more regulations should get the supply shortage fixed here soon.
none of those things, unless you're including zoning and permitting under regulations, has anything to do with the lack/price of housing in california
No crap. Mich thinks all of the problems in this country/world are easily cured through socialism.
I agree but it’s never going to happen. Even if construction became far more aggressive it would take like an entire generation to fix the problem. Also problematic is that lower prices would assuredly attract even more people.
I think meaningful impact would take federal intervention and I agree it will never happen
Post by: Phil Titola on December 13, 2020, 01:00:10 PM
This was my idea. Thanks for the confirmation.What do you investing pros do with kansas farmland you acquire via inheritance that you have no desire to have?
i have no claim to expertise, but i'd sell it the next time land prices go wild.
Post by: KITNfury on December 13, 2020, 01:00:15 PM
You would need to expand here for me to have a chance at responding somewhat intelligently, but probably too far off course for this thread.Wealth inequality is always going to be a thing. Bezos is a better businessman than I am, we weren't created equal. It is what it is. Can't fight that, just do what you can do to improve your situation.
I mean we have policies that maintain wealth inequality. We can change those policies
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 01:00:40 PM
And don't forget to charge wetwillie a handsome sum for the priveligeWhat do you investing pros do with kansas farmland you acquire via inheritance that you have no desire to have?
You enroll it in the CRP program, collect the annual payment, and give wetwillie permission to hunt it.
Post by: Phil Titola on December 13, 2020, 01:01:03 PM
What is my ROA on that? Seems like a dead investment that I'd rather turn into cash for other uses.What do you investing pros do with kansas farmland you acquire via inheritance that you have no desire to have?
You enroll it in the CRP program, collect the annual payment, and give wetwillie permission to hunt it.
Post by: wetwillie on December 13, 2020, 01:02:10 PM
And don't forget to charge wetwillie a handsome sum for the priveligeWhat do you investing pros do with kansas farmland you acquire via inheritance that you have no desire to have?
You enroll it in the CRP program, collect the annual payment, and give wetwillie permission to hunt it.
Don’t you go all capitalist on me now Rusty!
Post by: wetwillie on December 13, 2020, 01:04:28 PM
What is my ROA on that? Seems like a dead investment that I'd rather turn into cash for other uses.What do you investing pros do with kansas farmland you acquire via inheritance that you have no desire to have?
You enroll it in the CRP program, collect the annual payment, and give wetwillie permission to hunt it.
You should not do that, you should sell it to a farmer immediately. What county is it? Depending on where it is and the potential of the property you could also sell it as a hunting property.
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 01:04:31 PM
You would need to expand here for me to have a chance at responding somewhat intelligently, but probably too far off course for this thread.Wealth inequality is always going to be a thing. Bezos is a better businessman than I am, we weren't created equal. It is what it is. Can't fight that, just do what you can do to improve your situation.
I mean we have policies that maintain wealth inequality. We can change those policies
We were just discussing how the government provides free money to home owners and excludes our poorest citizens. Not explicitly, but in execution
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 01:06:27 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on December 13, 2020, 01:08:50 PM
I’m not sure why home owners have such a hard on for increasing home prices. Unless you plan on retiring to a lower cost area or own income properties I’m not really sure you’re benefiting much.
Everyone wants more money, this isn't exactly a brain buster
people love HELOCs
Post by: KITNfury on December 13, 2020, 01:10:39 PM
Also kitn, Bezos is no better than youHe's a better business man than I am. Otherwise I'm real squandering my potential lol
Post by: Phil Titola on December 13, 2020, 01:14:11 PM
Cool. That was the plan but didn't want to miss an opportunity I wasn't awareWhat is my ROA on that? Seems like a dead investment that I'd rather turn into cash for other uses.What do you investing pros do with kansas farmland you acquire via inheritance that you have no desire to have?
You enroll it in the CRP program, collect the annual payment, and give wetwillie permission to hunt it.
You should not do that, you should sell it to a farmer immediately. What county is it? Depending on where it is and the potential of the property you could also sell it as a hunting property.
Post by: Phil Titola on December 13, 2020, 01:15:05 PM
Everyone should have a HELOC open but not used for emergency cash even with an emergency nest egg.I’m not sure why home owners have such a hard on for increasing home prices. Unless you plan on retiring to a lower cost area or own income properties I’m not really sure you’re benefiting much.
Everyone wants more money, this isn't exactly a brain buster
people love HELOCs
Post by: KITNfury on December 13, 2020, 01:20:38 PM
I have one for that reason. But from what I've been told, a bank can freeze those lines of credit at any time. Some people actually tell you to move the cash to another bank. Obviously you pay interest on that, but rates are so low it might be worth it to you. I'm not doing that FWIW, but I could see why someone might.Everyone should have a HELOC open but not used for emergency cash even with an emergency nest egg.I’m not sure why home owners have such a hard on for increasing home prices. Unless you plan on retiring to a lower cost area or own income properties I’m not really sure you’re benefiting much.
Everyone wants more money, this isn't exactly a brain buster
people love HELOCs
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 01:24:49 PM
Well, he's not 100 billion times betterAlso kitn, Bezos is no better than youHe's a better business man than I am. Otherwise I'm real squandering my potential lol
Post by: KITNfury on December 13, 2020, 01:31:23 PM
Probably not, but he's also not blocking my ability to get super rich. I won't carry on about this here, but victims blame the more fortunate, and that mentality is far more repressive than any policy or class of people.Well, he's not 100 billion times betterAlso kitn, Bezos is no better than youHe's a better business man than I am. Otherwise I'm real squandering my potential lol
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 01:38:53 PM
victims blame the more fortunate, and that mentality is far more repressive than any policy or class of people.
That's a pretty sad philosophy
Post by: KITNfury on December 13, 2020, 01:41:38 PM
I probably worded that poorly. Should have said people that blame the more fortunate for their problems have a victim mentality. Those people are mumped until they fix it. I'll stand by that.victims blame the more fortunate, and that mentality is far more repressive than any policy or class of people.
That's a pretty sad philosophy
Post by: sys on December 13, 2020, 01:45:37 PM
I think meaningful impact would take federal intervention.
i don't see why that would be the case.
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 01:46:57 PM
I probably worded that poorly. Should have said people that blame the more fortunate for their problems have a victim mentality. Those people are mumped until they fix it. I'll stand by that.victims blame the more fortunate, and that mentality is far more repressive than any policy or class of people.
That's a pretty sad philosophy
Yeah that's still pretty disturbing. Were victims of Jim Crow laws wrong to blame the people who enacted and maintained those laws?
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 01:49:32 PM
I think meaningful impact would take federal intervention.
i don't see why that would be the case.
You think state and local governments can make a meaningful impact? Interesting given what's happened with recent bills introduced in the state legislature aimed at interesting housing supply in pretty minor ways
Post by: Spracne on December 13, 2020, 01:49:54 PM
I probably worded that poorly. Should have said people that blame the more fortunate for their problems have a victim mentality. Those people are mumped until they fix it. I'll stand by that.victims blame the more fortunate, and that mentality is far more repressive than any policy or class of people.
That's a pretty sad philosophy
Yeah that's still pretty disturbing. Were victims of Jim Crow laws wrong to blame the people who enacted and maintained those laws?
How about place the blame, if any, where it belongs, if anywhere, regardless of the fortune of the person deserving the blame, if anyone.
Post by: sys on December 13, 2020, 01:59:22 PM
You think state and local governments can make a meaningful impact?
the impediments are 100% state and local, so yes.
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 02:06:56 PM
I should have said "will" instead of "can". Increasing housing supply is just too unpopular.You think state and local governments can make a meaningful impact?
the impediments are 100% state and local, so yes.
Post by: KITNfury on December 13, 2020, 02:11:14 PM
No, those people are actual victims. There are victims in this world obviously. A person with a victim mentality is not the same thing.I probably worded that poorly. Should have said people that blame the more fortunate for their problems have a victim mentality. Those people are mumped until they fix it. I'll stand by that.victims blame the more fortunate, and that mentality is far more repressive than any policy or class of people.
That's a pretty sad philosophy
Yeah that's still pretty disturbing. Were victims of Jim Crow laws wrong to blame the people who enacted and maintained those laws?
A person with both ability and the right mindset will likely do well for themselves in this country. A person that thinks the world is constantly treating them unfairly will likely never accomplish anything of note.
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 02:25:52 PM
A person with both ability and the right mindset will likely do well for themselves in this country. A person that thinks the world is constantly treating them unfairly will likely never accomplish anything of note.
That doesn't mean we should have a housing policy that only provides free money the upper and middle classes
Post by: KITNfury on December 13, 2020, 02:52:31 PM
I'm not sure what the housing policy is that you're referring.
A person with both ability and the right mindset will likely do well for themselves in this country. A person that thinks the world is constantly treating them unfairly will likely never accomplish anything of note.
That doesn't mean we should have a housing policy that only provides free money the upper and middle classes
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 02:59:26 PM
I'm not sure what the housing policy is that you're referring.
A person with both ability and the right mindset will likely do well for themselves in this country. A person that thinks the world is constantly treating them unfairly will likely never accomplish anything of note.
That doesn't mean we should have a housing policy that only provides free money the upper and middle classes
Take your pick! Pretty much any government policy incentivising home ownership effectively excludes the working poor from its benefits. Things like mortgage interest deduction aren't even attainable to the bulk of the middle class.
Post by: KITNfury on December 13, 2020, 03:08:55 PM
Well I'm not sure if you're trying to say we should stop incentives to home ownership, but if so we'll just have to disagree on that.I'm not sure what the housing policy is that you're referring.
A person with both ability and the right mindset will likely do well for themselves in this country. A person that thinks the world is constantly treating them unfairly will likely never accomplish anything of note.
That doesn't mean we should have a housing policy that only provides free money the upper and middle classes
Take your pick! Pretty much any government policy incentivising home ownership effectively excludes the working poor from its benefits. Things like mortgage interest deduction aren't even attainable to the bulk of the middle class.
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 03:29:59 PM
Well I'm not sure if you're trying to say we should stop incentives to home ownership, but if so we'll just have to disagree on that.I'm not sure what the housing policy is that you're referring.
A person with both ability and the right mindset will likely do well for themselves in this country. A person that thinks the world is constantly treating them unfairly will likely never accomplish anything of note.
That doesn't mean we should have a housing policy that only provides free money the upper and middle classes
Take your pick! Pretty much any government policy incentivising home ownership effectively excludes the working poor from its benefits. Things like mortgage interest deduction aren't even attainable to the bulk of the middle class.
Yeah of course you don't want to stop getting free money from the government. Doesn't mean it's what's best for the country as a whole. But it might be depending on how you measure success!
Post by: KITNfury on December 13, 2020, 04:31:56 PM
I'm not sure if you've been paying attention, but my income is based on people deciding not to own homes, but I'm all for giving them incentive to move out of my property to buy their own house. So I'm not being selfish here.Well I'm not sure if you're trying to say we should stop incentives to home ownership, but if so we'll just have to disagree on that.I'm not sure what the housing policy is that you're referring.
A person with both ability and the right mindset will likely do well for themselves in this country. A person that thinks the world is constantly treating them unfairly will likely never accomplish anything of note.
That doesn't mean we should have a housing policy that only provides free money the upper and middle classes
Take your pick! Pretty much any government policy incentivising home ownership effectively excludes the working poor from its benefits. Things like mortgage interest deduction aren't even attainable to the bulk of the middle class.
Yeah of course you don't want to stop getting free money from the government. Doesn't mean it's what's best for the country as a whole. But it might be depending on how you measure success!
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 04:45:33 PM
I'm not sure if you've been paying attention, but my income is based on people deciding not to own homes, but I'm all for giving them incentive to move out of my property to buy their own house. So I'm not being selfish here.
Would you give up any of the government handouts you currently receive that might make it easier for your tenants to buy their own place? What about increasing density in neighborhoods you currently own?
Post by: IPA4Me on December 13, 2020, 05:11:57 PM
Post by: KITNfury on December 13, 2020, 05:17:59 PM
If a "handout" is a tax break, then taking them away would not help. Either people stop providing housing and that means higher prices due to lower supply....or every landlord raises rent significantly and the housing crisis spirals downward. For what it's worth, tax incentives aren't some oversight/loophole in the tax code. They are there to get people to do what the government doesn't want to do, or is incapable of doing.I'm not sure if you've been paying attention, but my income is based on people deciding not to own homes, but I'm all for giving them incentive to move out of my property to buy their own house. So I'm not being selfish here.
Would you give up any of the government handouts you currently receive that might make it easier for your tenants to buy their own place? What about increasing density in neighborhoods you currently own?
Increasing density doesn't matter too much to me.
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 05:43:18 PM
And yeah taking them away won't fix the housing crisis in the parts of the country where there is one
Post by: 8manpick on December 13, 2020, 05:56:43 PM
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 06:01:17 PM
The government not taking someone’s earned money is a handout?
Yep
Post by: 8manpick on December 13, 2020, 06:02:15 PM
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 06:04:21 PM
That is an interesting way to see the world
Yeah branding handouts as "tax incentives" is a great way to make handout recipients feel better about themselves.
Post by: KITNfury on December 13, 2020, 06:55:57 PM
Do you take any deductions on your taxes, or do you pay more than what the government is asking from you?That is an interesting way to see the world
Yeah branding handouts as "tax incentives" is a great way to make handout recipients feel better about themselves.
Post by: Spracne on December 13, 2020, 06:58:22 PM
Post by: wetwillie on December 13, 2020, 06:59:48 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on December 13, 2020, 07:00:08 PM
Post by: KITNfury on December 13, 2020, 07:00:21 PM
One of the things that sucks about this board is that the majority of the posts happen in the Pit. This is not the Pit. There are so few non-Pit threads that remain active. Let's not throw this one on the ash heap. Looking at you, cRusty.I'll do my part and stick to investing stuff, spracs
Post by: 8manpick on December 13, 2020, 07:05:35 PM
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 07:06:08 PM
Do you take any deductions on your taxes, or do you pay more than what the government is asking from you?That is an interesting way to see the world
Yeah branding handouts as "tax incentives" is a great way to make handout recipients feel better about themselves.
oh I take full advantage of every handout I can get. which is really only pretax 401k contributions
also let's get some mods to mod us a housing policy handouts thread from this so spracs doesn't take his ball and go home again
Post by: Spracne on December 13, 2020, 07:06:54 PM
You should tel everyone you are quitting the board again, it might work this time.
Thanks, unnecessarily dickish commenter. What are your thoughts on shorting Grubhub?
Post by: Kat Kid on December 13, 2020, 07:10:08 PM
The options prices are pretty expensive so probably not worth it.You should tel everyone you are quitting the board again, it might work this time.
Thanks, unnecessarily dickish commenter. What are your thoughts on shorting Grubhub?
Post by: Spracne on December 13, 2020, 07:14:20 PM
Not sure what this squawk is expecting from a politics blog :dunno:
Is this a politics blog? It used to be a sports blog with a robust off-topic forum (the one I thought I was posting on, here). Since returning, I've really tried to stay away from the subsection of this board ostensibly devoted to politics. I don't come here to argue with people like you, whom I don't know. If there was some change I missed, that information would be good to know.
Post by: Justwin on December 13, 2020, 07:21:26 PM
I think a lot of people in this thread should learn about the labor theory of value. I’m not saying you have to agree with it, but to understand it would be helpful.
If by understand it, you mean to understand that it is complete bullshit and one of the worst economic theories ever concocted, I 100% agree with you.
Post by: Justwin on December 13, 2020, 07:32:48 PM
The teachers in a state that did not opt in to social security are at the whim of their state government not fulfilling their obligations and that is a much more likely scenario than Uncle Sam.Not everyone has that. In fact, in several states teacher pension system kicks people off of social security. Not Kansas, but still pretty garbage tbh.
You think it's shitty for someone to not be allowed to benefit from Social Security when they didn't contribute to it? The states don't kick people off Social Security. The federal government does.
The states set up agreements with the federal government so that people in their pension systems don't have to pay the Social Security portion of FICA taxes. The money that would have gone to Social Security then goes to fund the pension system. My wife's mom had this when she taught in Nevada. The return on what she put in for NVPERS is a lot greater than what she would have got from Social Security.
Illinois is a state that opted out and it worked out fantastically for my father in law, but I would be at least a little nervous if I were a mid career teacher. But even Illinois isn’t the state that I am thinking of as being a worst case scenario, that would be Kentucky where the state has perpetually underfunded the pension, teachers have much lower average salaries and a much less generous pension than most illinois teachers and on top of that the state seems even more hell bent on not funding it than Illinois.
Also since you brought up Nevada my sister in law worked there for a few years, the Clark County education funding was a nightmare although I honestly don’t know how specific that was to LV vs the rest of the state. I will ask her about what the LV pension looks like for someone that leaves before fully vested, which is another huge issue.
In Kansas I have a decent pension, social security, and have saved money for retirement with a Roth. Teachers don’t get a great salary, but the financial security of knowing that I have 3 different retirement savings is good piece of mind that is worth more than the actual cash benefit and I also love the job.
So again, while it doesn’t impact me I think it is a pretty bad deal for a lot of teachers (though some have no doubt done better).
My wife's mom worked in CCSD and her pension check clears every month. I haven't read anything about NVPERS being underfunded.
If states are paying less to a pension than they would pay for the employer's contribution to Social Security, then I agree that is shitty.
However, I have a pretty low level of sympathy for public employees when it comes to the financial viability of their pensions. In most cases, they have been promised benefits which are actuarially unsound often times through what I consider to be corrupt bargains between elected officials and public employee unions. It's not my fault you believed fantastical promises. However, I would be ok with public employees that have pensions in place of Social Security being guaranteed the Social Security equivalent in any court cases that are going to come in terms of public pensions and state bankruptcies.
I made the conscious choice to work at places that have defined contribution rather than defined benefit primary retirement plans. If you sign on to a defined benefit plan, you knew that going in. You also knew the risks and thus should suffer the consequences if those risks come home to roost.
Post by: kim carnes on December 13, 2020, 08:20:42 PM
Do you take any deductions on your taxes, or do you pay more than what the government is asking from you?That is an interesting way to see the world
Yeah branding handouts as "tax incentives" is a great way to make handout recipients feel better about themselves.
oh I take full advantage of every handout I can get. which is really only pretax 401k contributions
also let's get some mods to mod us a housing policy handouts thread from this so spracs doesn't take his ball and go home again
Your posts in this thread have gotten so ridiculous that I can’t even respond. With interest rates where they’re at, do people even itemize anymore? You can only deduct like the first 700k and rates are around 3%.
Post by: kim carnes on December 13, 2020, 08:30:20 PM
Post by: Spracne on December 13, 2020, 08:34:42 PM
The options prices are pretty expensive so probably not worth it.You should tel everyone you are quitting the board again, it might work this time.
Thanks, unnecessarily dickish commenter. What are your thoughts on shorting Grubhub?
Probably the smart decision. OTOH, I'm bullish on AirBNB long-term, but I'm not sure how long to wait for the price to stabilize. Should I wait, or just bite the bullet?
Post by: wetwillie on December 13, 2020, 08:41:58 PM
Someone just delete the last few pages
Agreed
Post by: steve dave on December 13, 2020, 08:49:41 PM
It’s frothy AF. Of the two recent ridiculous IPOs I do like Airbnb a lot more than DoorDash though. Both ridiculously overvalued but that can be said about an absurd number of things right now.The options prices are pretty expensive so probably not worth it.You should tel everyone you are quitting the board again, it might work this time.
Thanks, unnecessarily dickish commenter. What are your thoughts on shorting Grubhub?
Probably the smart decision. OTOH, I'm bullish on AirBNB long-term, but I'm not sure how long to wait for the price to stabilize. Should I wait, or just bite the bullet?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 08:56:19 PM
Yeah it really only benefits the highest earners with the biggest mortgages. SALT deduction is probably a bigger incentive to mostDo you take any deductions on your taxes, or do you pay more than what the government is asking from you?That is an interesting way to see the world
Yeah branding handouts as "tax incentives" is a great way to make handout recipients feel better about themselves.
oh I take full advantage of every handout I can get. which is really only pretax 401k contributions
also let's get some mods to mod us a housing policy handouts thread from this so spracs doesn't take his ball and go home again
Your posts in this thread have gotten so ridiculous that I can’t even respond. With interest rates where they’re at, do people even itemize anymore? You can only deduct like the first 700k and rates are around 3%.
Post by: tdaver on December 13, 2020, 09:11:51 PM
now that i'm married with a kid, I need to figure out our life insurance situation. I really know nothing about it.
My FIL works for Primerica on the side and wants to get us on some term life.
From my limited knowledge, term is the way to go? Just let him handle it or shop around to another company? I believe i have some coverage through work but obvi not enough. If it matters both me and ms. ww work and soon ms ww will be the breadwinner by a good margin.
Be cautious with Primerica. It’s an MLM and you will get the hard sell on all kinds if crap, even try to convince you to sell. Shop around. I used PolicyGenius recently, easy peasy.
Post by: wetwillie on December 13, 2020, 09:21:47 PM
Post by: ben ji on December 13, 2020, 09:49:02 PM
now that i'm married with a kid, I need to figure out our life insurance situation. I really know nothing about it.
My FIL works for Primerica on the side and wants to get us on some term life.
From my limited knowledge, term is the way to go? Just let him handle it or shop around to another company? I believe i have some coverage through work but obvi not enough. If it matters both me and ms. ww work and soon ms ww will be the breadwinner by a good margin.
Be cautious with Primerica. It’s an MLM and you will get the hard sell on all kinds if crap, even try to convince you to sell. Shop around. I used PolicyGenius recently, easy peasy.
Agreed. I am sure there are some dece Primerica agents out there but most are garbage.
Source: My dad was a Primerica agent in the 90's before my mom made him get a real job and my first job out of college I sold insurance training/education products. Primerica and Aflac were our biggest customers because they would hire anyone with a pulse and sell them on the dream of making millions as soon as they got their insurance license.
Post by: ben ji on December 13, 2020, 10:32:45 PM
I've never really had one as I've been dumping all my money into my 401k/rIRA/HSA which are maxed and my savings are where I want them to be. This account would not be strictly for retirement but more for big purchase items in the future like expensive vacations/new roof/car/etc.
I know I could google all of this but I'd rather gE answer some questions/give me guidance as it would be easier then I could google more info when the time arises.
I plan to just throw it all in a SP500 index fund but my questions are
1. What kind of tax am I going to pay on dividends each year? (15%?) Should I reinvest them or use them to pay taxes on how much my stonks go up?
2. Teach me about long term capital gains? Like say I sell 10k in stocks in 5 years to buy a new roof, is it FIFO or LIFO?
3. How much of a PIA is it during tax season?
Please offer any other advice you have regarding standard brokerage accounts.
TIA- ben ji
Post by: Kat Kid on December 13, 2020, 10:46:05 PM
The teachers in a state that did not opt in to social security are at the whim of their state government not fulfilling their obligations and that is a much more likely scenario than Uncle Sam.Not everyone has that. In fact, in several states teacher pension system kicks people off of social security. Not Kansas, but still pretty garbage tbh.
You think it's shitty for someone to not be allowed to benefit from Social Security when they didn't contribute to it? The states don't kick people off Social Security. The federal government does.
The states set up agreements with the federal government so that people in their pension systems don't have to pay the Social Security portion of FICA taxes. The money that would have gone to Social Security then goes to fund the pension system. My wife's mom had this when she taught in Nevada. The return on what she put in for NVPERS is a lot greater than what she would have got from Social Security.
Illinois is a state that opted out and it worked out fantastically for my father in law, but I would be at least a little nervous if I were a mid career teacher. But even Illinois isn’t the state that I am thinking of as being a worst case scenario, that would be Kentucky where the state has perpetually underfunded the pension, teachers have much lower average salaries and a much less generous pension than most illinois teachers and on top of that the state seems even more hell bent on not funding it than Illinois.
Also since you brought up Nevada my sister in law worked there for a few years, the Clark County education funding was a nightmare although I honestly don’t know how specific that was to LV vs the rest of the state. I will ask her about what the LV pension looks like for someone that leaves before fully vested, which is another huge issue.
In Kansas I have a decent pension, social security, and have saved money for retirement with a Roth. Teachers don’t get a great salary, but the financial security of knowing that I have 3 different retirement savings is good piece of mind that is worth more than the actual cash benefit and I also love the job.
So again, while it doesn’t impact me I think it is a pretty bad deal for a lot of teachers (though some have no doubt done better).
My wife's mom worked in CCSD and her pension check clears every month. I haven't read anything about NVPERS being underfunded.
If states are paying less to a pension than they would pay for the employer's contribution to Social Security, then I agree that is shitty.
However, I have a pretty low level of sympathy for public employees when it comes to the financial viability of their pensions. In most cases, they have been promised benefits which are actuarially unsound often times through what I consider to be corrupt bargains between elected officials and public employee unions. It's not my fault you believed fantastical promises. However, I would be ok with public employees that have pensions in place of Social Security being guaranteed the Social Security equivalent in any court cases that are going to come in terms of public pensions and state bankruptcies.
I made the conscious choice to work at places that have defined contribution rather than defined benefit primary retirement plans. If you sign on to a defined benefit plan, you knew that going in. You also knew the risks and thus should suffer the consequences if those risks come home to roost.
I think you have a pretty warped view about how normal people make decisions about their lives.
The idea that you sought out your career path for defined contribution plans is hilarious. If you are private sector then it is a really funny statement. If you are public sector I would love to hear how this was a deciding factor.
Post by: sys on December 13, 2020, 11:03:25 PM
3. How much of a PIA is it during tax season?
it's easy enough that i've been doing it for like 30 years and can't answer your questions. like maybe you can deduct it all or maybe you owe $64 more in taxes, but who gives a crap. just open the account.
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 11:44:42 PM
Post by: michigancat on December 13, 2020, 11:47:23 PM
Is it a good idea to have a new roof fund tied up in stocks?I guess he just wants it all in the S&P but still
Post by: steve dave on December 14, 2020, 07:46:07 AM
3. How much of a PIA is it during tax season?
it's easy enough that i've been doing it for like 30 years and can't answer your questions. like maybe you can deduct it all or maybe you owe $64 more in taxes, but who gives a crap. just open the account.
yeah, you get a notice to print out and send to your tax person just like everything else you do. there is no work on your part.
Post by: WillieWatanabe on December 14, 2020, 08:44:18 AM
now that i'm married with a kid, I need to figure out our life insurance situation. I really know nothing about it.
My FIL works for Primerica on the side and wants to get us on some term life.
From my limited knowledge, term is the way to go? Just let him handle it or shop around to another company? I believe i have some coverage through work but obvi not enough. If it matters both me and ms. ww work and soon ms ww will be the breadwinner by a good margin.
Be cautious with Primerica. It’s an MLM and you will get the hard sell on all kinds if crap, even try to convince you to sell. Shop around. I used PolicyGenius recently, easy peasy.
thanks, the agent is my father-in-law so that helps. but he is about to retire so i'm sure i'll get passed on to another agent then.
Post by: Justwin on December 14, 2020, 09:56:48 AM
The teachers in a state that did not opt in to social security are at the whim of their state government not fulfilling their obligations and that is a much more likely scenario than Uncle Sam.Not everyone has that. In fact, in several states teacher pension system kicks people off of social security. Not Kansas, but still pretty garbage tbh.
You think it's shitty for someone to not be allowed to benefit from Social Security when they didn't contribute to it? The states don't kick people off Social Security. The federal government does.
The states set up agreements with the federal government so that people in their pension systems don't have to pay the Social Security portion of FICA taxes. The money that would have gone to Social Security then goes to fund the pension system. My wife's mom had this when she taught in Nevada. The return on what she put in for NVPERS is a lot greater than what she would have got from Social Security.
Illinois is a state that opted out and it worked out fantastically for my father in law, but I would be at least a little nervous if I were a mid career teacher. But even Illinois isn’t the state that I am thinking of as being a worst case scenario, that would be Kentucky where the state has perpetually underfunded the pension, teachers have much lower average salaries and a much less generous pension than most illinois teachers and on top of that the state seems even more hell bent on not funding it than Illinois.
Also since you brought up Nevada my sister in law worked there for a few years, the Clark County education funding was a nightmare although I honestly don’t know how specific that was to LV vs the rest of the state. I will ask her about what the LV pension looks like for someone that leaves before fully vested, which is another huge issue.
In Kansas I have a decent pension, social security, and have saved money for retirement with a Roth. Teachers don’t get a great salary, but the financial security of knowing that I have 3 different retirement savings is good piece of mind that is worth more than the actual cash benefit and I also love the job.
So again, while it doesn’t impact me I think it is a pretty bad deal for a lot of teachers (though some have no doubt done better).
My wife's mom worked in CCSD and her pension check clears every month. I haven't read anything about NVPERS being underfunded.
If states are paying less to a pension than they would pay for the employer's contribution to Social Security, then I agree that is shitty.
However, I have a pretty low level of sympathy for public employees when it comes to the financial viability of their pensions. In most cases, they have been promised benefits which are actuarially unsound often times through what I consider to be corrupt bargains between elected officials and public employee unions. It's not my fault you believed fantastical promises. However, I would be ok with public employees that have pensions in place of Social Security being guaranteed the Social Security equivalent in any court cases that are going to come in terms of public pensions and state bankruptcies.
I made the conscious choice to work at places that have defined contribution rather than defined benefit primary retirement plans. If you sign on to a defined benefit plan, you knew that going in. You also knew the risks and thus should suffer the consequences if those risks come home to roost.
I think you have a pretty warped view about how normal people make decisions about their lives.
The idea that you sought out your career path for defined contribution plans is hilarious. If you are private sector then it is a really funny statement. If you are public sector I would love to hear how this was a deciding factor.
I know how people make decisions and the way they do is generally pretty suboptimal. But, in my opinion, you don't get to cry victim because of the way you make decisions. This is especially true now that it is pretty widely known the shape a lot of these public pensions are in. Don't believe promises that are nearly impossible to be held up.
In terms of me deciding where to work, it's pretty straightforward to see if a university offers defined benefit vs defined contribution and use that as a factor in making a decision. Obviously, there could be factors that outweigh a university offering defined benefit, but everything else equal, I definitely choose the university with defined contribution. For example, I interviewed at Western Illinois University and they have defined benefit in a pension system in pretty bad shape. There was almost no way I was taking that job unless there were no other options or something else was just fantastic about the position. I know who took the position and it was a married couple where both of them were offered positions there. That would be something that would outweigh the defined benefit aspect. They also are no longer there.
A lot of my goals involve not needing to work if I don't want to by the time I am 45, so the nature of the retirement plan is pretty important.
Post by: catastrophe on December 14, 2020, 11:03:57 AM
And as someone who’s tax person is Turbo Tax, I can confirm it’s super easy EXCEPT you will have to pay for the upgraded version. If you use Betterment or Vanguard (I’m sure others as well), you can actually just sign in to your account through Turbo Tax and it pulls the info on its own.3. How much of a PIA is it during tax season?
it's easy enough that i've been doing it for like 30 years and can't answer your questions. like maybe you can deduct it all or maybe you owe $64 more in taxes, but who gives a crap. just open the account.
yeah, you get a notice to print out and send to your tax person just like everything else you do. there is no work on your part.
FWIW - I also did this completely myself once for my mom because I didn’t think it was worth the $50 or whatever. It was, in fact, a huge PITA.
Post by: catastrophe on December 14, 2020, 11:12:16 AM
You can also set up a bond heavy for big future purchases. I’ve got one through Betterment (which makes it SUPER easy to set up) for a future home down payment. I think it’s had about a 4% annual ROI, so basically a high interest savings on steroids, but obviously somewhat subject to short term market swings.
Post by: Purple Derpathy on December 14, 2020, 11:28:15 AM
Hey goEMAW, teach me about standard brokerage accounts, like taxes/best usage/withdrawing etc.
I've never really had one as I've been dumping all my money into my 401k/rIRA/HSA which are maxed and my savings are where I want them to be. This account would not be strictly for retirement but more for big purchase items in the future like expensive vacations/new roof/car/etc.
I know I could google all of this but I'd rather gE answer some questions/give me guidance as it would be easier then I could google more info when the time arises.
I plan to just throw it all in a SP500 index fund but my questions are
1. What kind of tax am I going to pay on dividends each year? (15%?) Should I reinvest them or use them to pay taxes on how much my stonks go up?
2. Teach me about long term capital gains? Like say I sell 10k in stocks in 5 years to buy a new roof, is it FIFO or LIFO?
3. How much of a PIA is it during tax season?
Please offer any other advice you have regarding standard brokerage accounts.
TIA- ben ji
1. Depends on if they are ordinary or qualified dividends but 15% is the capital gains tax rate so you could use that is a point of reference. Reinvest them. You pay taxes on them regardless of your stock going up or not. You'll obviously only pay taxes on that stock when you sell it (assuming it appreciates).
2. 15% capital gains tax unless you are making over ~$400K/yr or somewhere around there. You can elect FIFO or LIFO.
3. Not much unless you trade a lot. If you're throwing in an index fund and forgetting about it, you won't have much work. Even if you make a few trades or reallocations a year, it's minimal work. You'll get a statement at the end of the year from whatever brokerage you use and it has all the information you need to input into your taxes.
Post by: Kat Kid on December 14, 2020, 11:33:13 AM
The teachers in a state that did not opt in to social security are at the whim of their state government not fulfilling their obligations and that is a much more likely scenario than Uncle Sam.Not everyone has that. In fact, in several states teacher pension system kicks people off of social security. Not Kansas, but still pretty garbage tbh.
You think it's shitty for someone to not be allowed to benefit from Social Security when they didn't contribute to it? The states don't kick people off Social Security. The federal government does.
The states set up agreements with the federal government so that people in their pension systems don't have to pay the Social Security portion of FICA taxes. The money that would have gone to Social Security then goes to fund the pension system. My wife's mom had this when she taught in Nevada. The return on what she put in for NVPERS is a lot greater than what she would have got from Social Security.
Illinois is a state that opted out and it worked out fantastically for my father in law, but I would be at least a little nervous if I were a mid career teacher. But even Illinois isn’t the state that I am thinking of as being a worst case scenario, that would be Kentucky where the state has perpetually underfunded the pension, teachers have much lower average salaries and a much less generous pension than most illinois teachers and on top of that the state seems even more hell bent on not funding it than Illinois.
Also since you brought up Nevada my sister in law worked there for a few years, the Clark County education funding was a nightmare although I honestly don’t know how specific that was to LV vs the rest of the state. I will ask her about what the LV pension looks like for someone that leaves before fully vested, which is another huge issue.
In Kansas I have a decent pension, social security, and have saved money for retirement with a Roth. Teachers don’t get a great salary, but the financial security of knowing that I have 3 different retirement savings is good piece of mind that is worth more than the actual cash benefit and I also love the job.
So again, while it doesn’t impact me I think it is a pretty bad deal for a lot of teachers (though some have no doubt done better).
My wife's mom worked in CCSD and her pension check clears every month. I haven't read anything about NVPERS being underfunded.
If states are paying less to a pension than they would pay for the employer's contribution to Social Security, then I agree that is shitty.
However, I have a pretty low level of sympathy for public employees when it comes to the financial viability of their pensions. In most cases, they have been promised benefits which are actuarially unsound often times through what I consider to be corrupt bargains between elected officials and public employee unions. It's not my fault you believed fantastical promises. However, I would be ok with public employees that have pensions in place of Social Security being guaranteed the Social Security equivalent in any court cases that are going to come in terms of public pensions and state bankruptcies.
I made the conscious choice to work at places that have defined contribution rather than defined benefit primary retirement plans. If you sign on to a defined benefit plan, you knew that going in. You also knew the risks and thus should suffer the consequences if those risks come home to roost.
I think you have a pretty warped view about how normal people make decisions about their lives.
The idea that you sought out your career path for defined contribution plans is hilarious. If you are private sector then it is a really funny statement. If you are public sector I would love to hear how this was a deciding factor.
I know how people make decisions and the way they do is generally pretty suboptimal. But, in my opinion, you don't get to cry victim because of the way you make decisions. This is especially true now that it is pretty widely known the shape a lot of these public pensions are in. Don't believe promises that are nearly impossible to be held up.
In terms of me deciding where to work, it's pretty straightforward to see if a university offers defined benefit vs defined contribution and use that as a factor in making a decision. Obviously, there could be factors that outweigh a university offering defined benefit, but everything else equal, I definitely choose the university with defined contribution. For example, I interviewed at Western Illinois University and they have defined benefit in a pension system in pretty bad shape. There was almost no way I was taking that job unless there were no other options or something else was just fantastic about the position. I know who took the position and it was a married couple where both of them were offered positions there. That would be something that would outweigh the defined benefit aspect. They also are no longer there.
A lot of my goals involve not needing to work if I don't want to by the time I am 45, so the nature of the retirement plan is pretty important.
yeah that's all fairly reasonable for you, and I certainly don't begrudge you that choice at all.
I still think it is pretty crazy to judge people for being upset when their benefits system that they had nothing to do with setting up or choosing goes bad. The fact that I was born and raised in Kansas determined that I was probably going to get a job in Kansas. For nearly everyone this is the case, so acting like people have all these choices and that they are using this as rational, when in reality that isn't what is going on. I shouldn't get credit for lucking in to a good system.
Post by: Justwin on December 14, 2020, 01:42:03 PM
yeah that's all fairly reasonable for you, and I certainly don't begrudge you that choice at all.
I still think it is pretty crazy to judge people for being upset when their benefits system that they had nothing to do with setting up or choosing goes bad. The fact that I was born and raised in Kansas determined that I was probably going to get a job in Kansas. For nearly everyone this is the case, so acting like people have all these choices and that they are using this as rational, when in reality that isn't what is going on. I shouldn't get credit for lucking in to a good system.
I don't judge people for being upset. I'd be pissed too if I was in that situation. However, I in no way support bailing out state pension systems with federal funds. And if I was a taxpayer in those states with failing pension systems, I would in no way support higher taxes to support the pension systems.
Like I said earlier, I can see guaranteeing individuals in those pension systems benefits that are comparable to what they would have received through Social Security if they are in a system that opted out of Social Security. I think that is fair. However, anything above and beyond that, I wouldn't be in favor of. My position is that if you believe promises that are too good to be true, don't get too upset when they turn out to not be true. If you are currently a part of a pension system that is in bad shape, you should be planning and saving based on that information. The information is widely available and you can't claim ignorance at this point. If you don't like the situation, have some agency and make a change. I'm forced to be a part of a retirement system I wish I could opt out of (Social Security). Rather than dwell on how terrible of a return I get from it, and how much I'd like it to go away, I take it as a given and make plans accordingly. If I could opt out of Social Security when I am 40, and let Social Security keep all of the taxes I have paid over my lifetime (it would be 27 years of taxes at that point), I would do it in a heartbeat. Even if it meant I had to save the 12.4% that goes into it on my behalf in some sort of retirement account, that would be fine. In terms of opting out, I mean Social Security would never owe me anything and I never pay in again.
In terms of you lucking into KPERS, I guess I don't attribute as much of the results of life to luck or things beyond my control. I also wonder how many people around the country would agree that you are lucky that you were born and now work in Kansas. Don't get me wrong, it is where I want to live and work and don't ever plan to move away, but I don't think a lot of people share that sentiment.
Post by: catastrophe on December 17, 2020, 10:46:13 AM
Interesting! I was mainly asking because of the strategy of moving money to cash then back to stocks. My performance is all over the place. Below is all Dec. 2019-20.Update: 401k up 18% over the last 12 months when I timed my contributions about as bad as possible.
Vanguard regular investments +24%
Wife’s Vanguard target retirement fund IRA: +17.9%
529 (last stock purchase in Aug. 2018): +52.5% :sdeek:
I’m super curious how my 401k did since I made most of my contributions RIGHT before the market tanked (so basically the worst possible time), but this weekend is website maintenance weekend I guess. :(
So not apples to apples, but we’ll call it for 2020:
Bad timing vs. dollar cost averaging approximation: +6% DCA
DCA vs. KK gambit: +6% KK
Post by: chum1 on December 29, 2020, 08:54:31 AM
DJIA +1.1%
S&P +1.3%
chum1 -25%
Post by: chum1 on December 29, 2020, 08:59:41 AM
Post by: wetwillie on December 29, 2020, 09:01:17 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on December 29, 2020, 09:10:24 AM
Post by: chum1 on December 29, 2020, 09:12:42 AM
What’s driving the blood bath in chum1 fund?
Shitty stocks across the board, apparently. I'm still +1.3% over the past month, so it's not nearly as bad as it could be.
Post by: Kat Kid on December 29, 2020, 09:15:21 AM
Post by: chum1 on December 29, 2020, 09:20:52 AM
do you pick em?
Sort of. I use an algorithm. So, I don't know anything about them, really.
Post by: steve dave on December 29, 2020, 09:22:04 AM
Post by: ben ji on December 29, 2020, 09:44:13 AM
Or maybe you just tell us some of the stocks that are in the chum1 fund and we try to guess what the algo looks for?
Post by: wetwillie on December 29, 2020, 09:45:05 AM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on December 29, 2020, 10:05:22 AM
What do you investing pros do with kansas farmland you acquire via inheritance that you have no desire to have?
I would only sell that land if I absolutely needed the money. Put it into CRP, lease it, whatever, but the land itself is going to be a solid investment and there is always a chance that some gas/wind/solar guy comes along and gives you a ton of money.
Post by: chum1 on December 29, 2020, 10:25:15 AM
tell us some of the stocks that are in the chum1 fund and we try to guess what the algo looks for?
Here are the six worst right now.
AAU
ARCT
BMYRT
FRANQ
QTT
UXIN
Post by: chum1 on December 29, 2020, 10:32:08 AM
I am getting absolutely hammered this week. First time I've had anything remotely like this before!
DJIA +1.1%
S&P +1.3%
chum1 -25%
Seem to have bottomed out at -35% (including Monday) about an hour ago. Free fall in the first hour of trading. I was starting to ask myself if I should consider throwing in the towel and selling off everything.
Post by: steve dave on December 29, 2020, 10:47:23 AM
and lmao at BMY.RT. straight up gamblin' man.
Post by: kim carnes on December 29, 2020, 10:52:44 AM
Post by: steve dave on December 29, 2020, 10:54:38 AM
It could be a good time to buy ARCT. I owned it up until last week. I don’t see the news as definitively bad.
agree here.
Post by: Kat Kid on December 29, 2020, 11:55:56 AM
Post by: treysolid on January 02, 2021, 03:12:30 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on January 02, 2021, 03:36:44 PM
In 2021, I am welcoming 4 new ETFs into my portfolio: BOTZ, ARKG, IDNA and SMH.
I had ARKG for like 4 days until I looked and saw that ARKK basically had most of the names and I already owned IBB and XBI. I like SMH though. If you are looking for exposure to those types of things I would consider just owning ARKK instead of all 3.
Post by: kim carnes on January 02, 2021, 04:15:11 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on January 02, 2021, 04:35:44 PM
ARKK is ripe for a beating IMO, a lot of the holdings have taken a bath in the last week but man what a year it’s had.I don’t disagree, I was late to the party but still was up like 50% on it. So I have a stop in on it.
But the amount of overlap in all of those names is pretty big.
Post by: chum1 on January 06, 2021, 08:24:19 AM
I am getting absolutely hammered this week. First time I've had anything remotely like this before!
DJIA +1.1%
S&P +1.3%
chum1 -25%
Seem to have bottomed out at -35% (including Monday) about an hour ago. Free fall in the first hour of trading. I was starting to ask myself if I should consider throwing in the towel and selling off everything.
Recovered to 83% of pre hammering this week. Almost all yesterday. So weird.
For the record, I am an idiot and was frazzled, but I WAY overstated the losses. That was a percentage of the amount invested at that time, which was less than half of the account balance. Rest was cash.
Post by: steve dave on January 06, 2021, 01:16:36 PM
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Post by: star seed 7 on January 06, 2021, 01:20:06 PM
Post by: kim carnes on January 06, 2021, 01:59:36 PM
The texags maqas are panic selling today, how do I use that to my advantage?
Well, you can take advantage of the minor dip caused by the rioters
Post by: kim carnes on January 06, 2021, 02:02:06 PM
The markets really like this Dem sweep
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Ya everyone’s assuming the new regime will have the moderate flavors that markets crave (and huge spending on infrastructure of course!)
Post by: steve dave on January 06, 2021, 02:05:21 PM
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Post by: chum1 on January 06, 2021, 02:06:34 PM
Post by: kim carnes on January 07, 2021, 10:49:54 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on January 07, 2021, 12:13:27 PM
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Post by: treysolid on January 07, 2021, 06:46:25 PM
BABA is really pissing me off you guys.
Well, get off your ass and find Jack Ma. His disappearance is the cause for this.
Post by: Kat Kid on January 07, 2021, 07:41:46 PM
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Post by: steve dave on January 07, 2021, 08:20:59 PM
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Post by: DaBigTrain on January 11, 2021, 01:43:35 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 11, 2021, 03:26:16 PM
Josh Brown should be on CNBC every day as a main analyst. He is on fire today LOLHe is on every day
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Post by: steve dave on January 11, 2021, 03:26:33 PM
Until proven wrong this is the wayFolks, it was not the way
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Post by: cfbandyman on January 11, 2021, 03:29:26 PM
Until proven wrong this is the wayFolks, it was not the way
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I know you were setting up for that, but yeah, that was coming
Post by: DaBigTrain on January 11, 2021, 03:50:59 PM
Josh Brown should be on CNBC every day as a main analyst. He is on fire today LOLHe is on every day
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Maybe you aren't a regular CNBC viewer(and that's fine) but today his capacity was different than it normally is.
Post by: ben ji on January 21, 2021, 10:58:36 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210122/f6fbc72d8c70b565311512a4d932ad8f.jpg)
Post by: IPA4Me on January 22, 2021, 05:59:26 AM
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Post by: wetwillie on January 22, 2021, 06:27:48 AM
Post by: KITNfury on January 22, 2021, 06:59:21 AM
Basically shining light on the importance of time in the compounding interest equation. But I'm also betting Buffet made some really smart moves after age 65.
Post by: steve dave on January 22, 2021, 08:26:11 AM
Post by: catastrophe on January 22, 2021, 08:26:41 AM
Post by: 'taterblast on January 22, 2021, 08:28:11 AM
Post by: IPA4Me on January 22, 2021, 08:46:24 AM
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Post by: KITNfury on January 22, 2021, 08:48:18 AM
well i didn't WANT to regret the amount i invested in my 20's but now i am. i did some (401k 10% basically) but didn't emphasize it nearly enough.That's why I'm so adamant about passive income. I graduated with a bachelor's degree in doctorate time, so my 20s were used killing brain cells instead of collecting dollars.
With passive income, at a sufficient amount, the size of your nest egg is irrelevant.
Post by: catastrophe on January 22, 2021, 09:34:06 AM
Post by: KITNfury on January 22, 2021, 09:41:20 AM
A nest egg is really just a different avenue to passive income. It’s basically employing your money instead of people.To a degree. But there are very important things to know that are also impossible to know in order to determine if the best egg is big enough. How long will you live after your retirement age? What will your future expenses be when considering inflation and health costs?
Obviously a nest egg of a large enough size can alleviate those concerns. I don't know the percentage, but don't think it a bold prediction to say most don't achieve that luxury. Especially considering most nest eggs are in accounts that will have mandatory withdrawals, shrinking the returns.
Post by: DaBigTrain on January 22, 2021, 02:00:16 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on January 22, 2021, 02:13:21 PM
I gave away my copy so probably going to buy it again at some point.
Post by: catastrophe on January 22, 2021, 10:12:22 PM
So I've crunched at the numbers and my Vanguard funds are outperforming my stuff in Betterment after a couple of years. Not by much, but enough to make me feel like I don't need to pay the .25% management fee on everything I invest.
Anyone have advice on Vanguard funds? I think I found some that I like, just still don't really understand how much I should worry about diversifying when it comes to index funds. Right now I'm mostly in VXUS, VTI, VOO, and VIMAX, FWIW.
Depends on how much and what it's for. I mean vanguard's target index funds basically do what betterment does at a lower expense ratio. My company uses Betterment for our 401k and it seems like a rip off.
Betterment has some tools I really like, so I’m not ditching it entirely. Just hoping to come up with a game plan of an asset mix I like for DIY investing. I’m hoping to be able to start relying on investment gains as my main source of income in about 15 years or so, so I think I need to start focusing more on bonds (been 100% stocks up to this point).
Update: back on the Betterment bandwagon. I have still been using Vanguard for most of my ETF buying the last couple years, but had enough in Betterment to take advantage of tax loss harvesting. The game changer is that now Betterment allows you to donate shares to charity. So you tax loss harvesting lets you sell low, and then you donate the full value of the extra-appreciated shares. Double value!
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on January 22, 2021, 10:39:06 PM
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on January 22, 2021, 10:42:41 PM
Post by: Spracne on January 22, 2021, 10:49:13 PM
Hey everybody! I’m 26 and socking tons of money away for retirement for when I’ll be in physical pain a lot and probably have old man cancer and stuff. Ok cool dude. Why don’t you just not do that and go take a vacation or get some lap dances or something.
Because working is what fills me with the most joy.
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on January 22, 2021, 10:52:16 PM
Hey everybody! I’m 26 and socking tons of money away for retirement for when I’ll be in physical pain a lot and probably have old man cancer and stuff. Ok cool dude. Why don’t you just not do that and go take a vacation or get some lap dances or something.
Because working is what fills me with the most joy.
Working or saving money for retirement? They are very different things.
Post by: catastrophe on January 22, 2021, 10:53:54 PM
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on January 22, 2021, 10:56:08 PM
I was gonna say the prospect of early retirement is what makes work most enjoyable, but to each his own.
Do you mean the prospect of early retirement is what makes investing money the most enjoyable? I don’t understand.
Post by: catastrophe on January 22, 2021, 11:00:44 PM
I was gonna say the prospect of early retirement is what makes work most enjoyable, but to each his own.
Do you mean the prospect of early retirement is what makes investing money the most enjoyable? I don’t understand.
I mean having a good nest egg gives you a freedom from work. Like, you know I dgaf if they fire me from this job. Once you don't feel trapped the work itself is more enjoyable.
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on January 22, 2021, 11:15:58 PM
I was gonna say the prospect of early retirement is what makes work most enjoyable, but to each his own.
Do you mean the prospect of early retirement is what makes investing money the most enjoyable? I don’t understand.
I mean having a good nest egg gives you a freedom from work. Like, you know I dgaf if they fire me from this job. Once you don't feel trapped the work itself is more enjoyable.
Makes sense I guess. I’m a show up and let the chips fall as the may kind of person myself. Things seem to always work out. Like, whatever.
Post by: bucket on January 22, 2021, 11:18:38 PM
Hot take- I couldn’t care less about being loaded when I’m 70, if I’m even lucky enough to live that long. I’ll spend my money and have my fun right now thank you very much.
This is what I thought when I read, I think, @benji's post about how you earn more investing a certain amount from 18-28 than you do 28-65. When I was 18-28 I refused to invest because I thought I might not live to be 40-50. After reading that I wish I had invested some money at that age.
Post by: ben ji on January 23, 2021, 01:17:44 AM
I was gonna say the prospect of early retirement is what makes work most enjoyable, but to each his own.
Do you mean the prospect of early retirement is what makes investing money the most enjoyable? I don’t understand.
I mean having a good nest egg gives you a freedom from work. Like, you know I dgaf if they fire me from this job. Once you don't feel trapped the work itself is more enjoyable.
This is the ultimate goal for me, summed up by John Goodman in the movie "The Gambler"...FU money
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJjKP8vYjpQ&ab_channel=YoutubeVideos
Post by: chum1 on January 23, 2021, 07:14:38 AM
And I think the really old, sick person angle applies even before you're really old and sick. Like, I used to dream of traveling the entire world and doing all kinds of crap. But the older I get, the more I'm like, "meh, whatever." I expect this trend to continue and by the time I'm retirement age I'll be fully content watching the birds in my back yard, which is incredibly inexpensive.
Post by: steve dave on January 23, 2021, 08:00:29 AM
I'd like to build one more house before my kids are in HS so they remember it as "home" and not just "my parents house". and I want it to be somewhere that the entire family can gather when (fingers crossed) we're old and kids are adults and can come with their families (if they have them) and have a ton of room and it to be nice and big and have some acres but not be like in the country and that takes a lot of money, even in Omaha.
I'd like to travel all over the world still and am very excited to start doing that in the next few years with my kids. haven't done so in the last 5 years other than a couple week long trips because my kids were too young and we didn't want to leave them with anyone for too long.
I'm going to pay for my kids to go to whatever school they want to go to (if they do want to) so they don't get into student loan debt.
I'm going to retire in my mid to upper 50s. that used to seem like a really long time from now but as every year passes that gets closer. So that's going to take some earning and saving and investing.
Post by: Kat Kid on January 23, 2021, 08:01:08 AM
My mom married two people and both died before they enjoyed retirement much after being pretty good savers so I do think that there is something to that, but I figure I live a pretty good life and I will almost certainly have enough to retire by 58 assuming my kids don’t all take 8 years to get a degree.
Post by: wetwillie on January 23, 2021, 09:25:21 AM
Post by: IPA4Me on January 23, 2021, 09:32:48 AM
You can save 15% of your income for retirement and still do fun stuff while you are young. It doesn’t have to be either or.Bingo
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Post by: Justwin on January 23, 2021, 10:01:55 AM
You can save 15% of your income for retirement and still do fun stuff while you are young. It doesn’t have to be either or.
A 15% savings rate translates roughly into 43 years until retirement from when you start saving. That's a too long for me.
And we do plenty of things that are fun, but don't cost very much money.
Post by: wetwillie on January 23, 2021, 10:20:44 AM
Post by: Justwin on January 23, 2021, 10:36:16 AM
6k a year from 25 to 60 at 12% return gets you 3 million. Could retire at 50 with 1.8MM on same trajectory.
Does that 12% return include inflation? I generally assume a 5% real (inflation adjusted) annual return.
When I run your numbers I get $2.7 million from 25-60 and $843,000 from 25-50.
Post by: wetwillie on January 23, 2021, 11:07:39 AM
Post by: catastrophe on January 23, 2021, 11:18:14 AM
Compounding really is something that most people need to see actual examples of to make sense of it, thus the buffet example.
My mom married two people and both died before they enjoyed retirement much after being pretty good savers so I do think that there is something to that, but I figure I live a pretty good life and I will almost certainly have enough to retire by 58 assuming my kids don’t all take 8 years to get a degree.
I don’t get this angle as a reason not to save. Dead people don’t regret missing out on life experiences. They’re just dead.
Alive people sure as heck can regret not being prepared for retirement though. Just look at all the pissed of boomers who elected Trump.
I definitely agree with what others have said though: saving aggressively for retirement should not come at the expense of a basic quality of life. The whole idea is to determine a comfortable/enjoyable standard of living and then figuring out what it takes to maintain that with increasingly minimal effort. That’s really the essence of retirement.
Post by: catastrophe on January 23, 2021, 11:30:52 AM
Not inflation adjusted, meant 25 to 55 in the second part. 6k a year is only 15% of a gross of 40K a year so it’s likely many people here can and do much more than 500 a month. I think Rick is right that often people get overly aggressive and want to have some monster pile of cash waiting for them and never really enjoy their life along the way.I think this is a little too rosy, but it does raise another important point that compounding is a double edged sword. If you are ok with working late into your 60s, it’s really not hard to save enough for a nice nest egg to use in conjunction with social security.
By the same token, every year you try to shave OFF of your retirement age gets harder and harder. When you’re even at a 10 year horizon, each dollar you put in isn’t going to make a huge dent by the time you need to start drawing it back out.
So there is a balance to strike. My savings rate is as high right now as it will ever be. At some point I’ll back off, but it will likely be in conjunction with taking a lower paying/less stressful job rather than for purposes of just blowing more money on expensive stuff I never really needed before.
Post by: michigancat on January 23, 2021, 12:17:14 PM
Post by: michigancat on January 23, 2021, 12:19:23 PM
I'm calling bullshit on justwin having funBUT, I bet he gets a lot of satisfaction out of however he lives his life. Which is really what matters!
Post by: steve dave on January 23, 2021, 12:44:11 PM
I'm calling bullshit on justwin having fun
lmao
Post by: sys on January 23, 2021, 01:10:53 PM
Compounding really is something that most people need to see actual examples of to make sense of it, thus the buffet example.
My mom married two people and both died before they enjoyed retirement much after being pretty good savers so I do think that there is something to that, but I figure I live a pretty good life and I will almost certainly have enough to retire by 58 assuming my kids don’t all take 8 years to get a degree.
i dunno, it made sense to me the first time i ever heard about it, didn't need any examples.
my mother loved the crap out of being retired, but died when she was just getting started at 73. she for sure missed out by not retiring earlier. but, my father would much prefer to still be working and never goes anywhere and doesn't spend any of the money he's saved/invested. don't think he cares much about the birds in the backyard either. so, you know, people are just different.
also both halves of a married couple kinda should have the same preferences for it to work.
Post by: IPA4Me on January 23, 2021, 01:15:12 PM
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Post by: Justwin on January 23, 2021, 02:18:12 PM
I'm calling bullshit on justwin having funBUT, I bet he gets a lot of satisfaction out of however he lives his life. Which is really what matters!
I guess maybe the things I do, you wouldn't consider fun, but I enjoy them. We like vacations that involve things like going to Glacier National Park. I personally would consider going to Disneyworld to be torture, but I'm sure those that go there enjoy it even if I wouldn't consider it fun.
A fair bit of our time is spent going to Kansas City for soccer in the fall and spring. I enjoy coaching my daughter's team and watching my son's team, but not everyone may think that is fun.
Post by: steve dave on January 23, 2021, 02:23:20 PM
Post by: michigancat on January 23, 2021, 03:30:29 PM
Post by: chum1 on January 23, 2021, 03:39:49 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 23, 2021, 03:45:34 PM
Stop ganging up on SD everyone.
I enjoy it tbh :Rusty:
Post by: Kat Kid on January 23, 2021, 04:45:36 PM
I don’t think either my dad or step dad died with regrets, just that they did not get to enjoy as many years of retirement as they had planned. It is definitely something to consider when you are looking at things at the margins (should I go on this trip that I’ve always wanted to do? Etc)Compounding really is something that most people need to see actual examples of to make sense of it, thus the buffet example.
My mom married two people and both died before they enjoyed retirement much after being pretty good savers so I do think that there is something to that, but I figure I live a pretty good life and I will almost certainly have enough to retire by 58 assuming my kids don’t all take 8 years to get a degree.
I don’t get this angle as a reason not to save. Dead people don’t regret missing out on life experiences. They’re just dead.
Alive people sure as heck can regret not being prepared for retirement though. Just look at all the pissed of boomers who elected Trump.
I definitely agree with what others have said though: saving aggressively for retirement should not come at the expense of a basic quality of life. The whole idea is to determine a comfortable/enjoyable standard of living and then figuring out what it takes to maintain that with increasingly minimal effort. That’s really the essence of retirement.
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Post by: DaBigTrain on January 25, 2021, 11:24:14 AM
GameStop seems like a very good one to get intoThis seems to have been correct.
Post by: wetwillie on January 25, 2021, 11:32:55 AM
Post by: DaBigTrain on January 25, 2021, 11:43:33 AM
In the span of 3 hours it went from being up 120% to going lower than the open LOL
Post by: star seed 7 on January 25, 2021, 11:51:57 AM
Makes sense I guess. I’m a show up and let the chips fall as the may kind of person myself. Things seem to always work out. Like, whatever.
Same here ricky d :cheers:
Post by: Kat Kid on January 25, 2021, 11:52:06 AM
Post by: steve dave on January 25, 2021, 11:54:31 AM
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Post by: steve dave on January 25, 2021, 12:42:52 PM
Post by: michigancat on January 25, 2021, 12:48:11 PM
Is there like a minimum amount necessary to make it worthwhile? I mostly wanted to start with a couple hundred bucks and then put like birthday money from my grandparents in it (but maybe more if I have the magic touch).
please advise, thanks.
Post by: chum1 on January 25, 2021, 12:53:50 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsmQ9ECXcAAkKdi?format=png&name=small)
Lol
Post by: sys on January 25, 2021, 01:07:07 PM
so I've always been very conservative with investment and pretty much have everything in tax advantaged accounts but I want to start something to play with and join the kk/sd stonk text group.
Is there like a minimum amount necessary to make it worthwhile? I mostly wanted to start with a couple hundred bucks and then put like birthday money from my grandparents in it (but maybe more if I have the magic touch).
with no fees/v low fees, you can speculate with pretty much any amount you want. obviously, it's not worth your time, but if you enjoy it then i guess it is.
Post by: steve dave on January 25, 2021, 01:09:50 PM
Is there like a minimum amount necessary to make it worthwhile? I mostly wanted to start with a couple hundred bucks and then put like birthday money from my grandparents in it (but maybe more if I have the magic touch).
not anymore. you can trade for free with no minimums pretty much everywhere.
Post by: wetwillie on January 25, 2021, 01:13:13 PM
Wall Street bets found out that there was 140% short interest and so they started buying up call options, which forced clearing houses buy the stock, which drove the price up which caused short sellers to try and cover their short position which drove the price up and the cycle went crazy from there once it got a whiff of good news with a new board member which just got more people following that trend.
All of that sounds highly illegal but it’s probably perfectly legal
Post by: steve dave on January 25, 2021, 01:16:59 PM
Wall Street bets found out that there was 140% short interest and so they started buying up call options, which forced clearing houses buy the stock, which drove the price up which caused short sellers to try and cover their short position which drove the price up and the cycle went crazy from there once it got a whiff of good news with a new board member which just got more people following that trend.
All of that sounds highly illegal but it’s probably perfectly legal
yes and yes
Post by: michigancat on January 25, 2021, 01:39:57 PM
so I've always been very conservative with investment and pretty much have everything in tax advantaged accounts but I want to start something to play with and join the kk/sd stonk text group.
Is there like a minimum amount necessary to make it worthwhile? I mostly wanted to start with a couple hundred bucks and then put like birthday money from my grandparents in it (but maybe more if I have the magic touch).
with no fees/v low fees, you can speculate with pretty much any amount you want. obviously, it's not worth your time, but if you enjoy it then i guess it is.
yeah. maybe I'll just put it all in a regular index fund. Not as much fun but whatever. my friends are just always making deals and talking shop and I feel left out. :frown:
Post by: catastrophe on January 25, 2021, 01:58:43 PM
Personally I imagine it’s just like fantasy football. Having a fun time researching and picking your stocks, then sitting back being miserable that the other ones you could have picked are doing 50x better.
Post by: michigancat on January 25, 2021, 02:08:45 PM
I mean why not play around with a few hundred if it sounds fun.
Personally I imagine it’s just like fantasy football. Having a fun time researching and picking your stocks, then sitting back being miserable that the other ones you could have picked are doing 50x better.
for sure. But I also don't do fantasy football because it seems like a waste of time.
Post by: Kat Kid on January 25, 2021, 02:20:27 PM
Depends on what you want to do with time/risk.
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Post by: chum1 on January 25, 2021, 02:37:00 PM
Post by: kim carnes on January 25, 2021, 02:56:02 PM
Post by: chum1 on January 26, 2021, 03:16:15 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on January 26, 2021, 03:36:53 PM
Post by: ben ji on January 26, 2021, 04:46:19 PM
I have no idea how this ends but I can't wait to find out.
Post by: sys on January 26, 2021, 04:47:47 PM
Post by: sys on January 26, 2021, 04:50:37 PM
https://twitter.com/williamlegate/status/1354181231148150787
Post by: IPA4Me on January 26, 2021, 04:56:08 PM
Post by: ben ji on January 26, 2021, 05:16:12 PM
the reddit/gamestop thing is so bizarre. i hope they all lose tons of money.
I'm rooting for WSB
Post by: chum1 on January 26, 2021, 05:53:29 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EssODYjXEAEoTO7?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Post by: chum1 on January 26, 2021, 05:56:27 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on January 26, 2021, 06:01:00 PM
the reddit/gamestop thing is so bizarre. i hope they all lose tons of money.I don’t think you hate populism, I think you just hate people.
Post by: sys on January 26, 2021, 06:06:09 PM
the reddit/gamestop thing is so bizarre. i hope they all lose tons of money.I don’t think you hate populism, I think you just hate people.
i'm hoping the short fund loses tons of money too, in this scenario. they're all (both sides) just manipulating markets and gambling. eff'em.
Post by: chum1 on January 26, 2021, 06:09:12 PM
Post by: wetwillie on January 26, 2021, 06:10:25 PM
Post by: kim carnes on January 26, 2021, 06:10:32 PM
the reddit/gamestop thing is so bizarre. i hope they all lose tons of money.I don’t think you hate populism, I think you just hate people.
I’d say you’re misguided about some things
Post by: chum1 on January 26, 2021, 06:11:40 PM
The SEC can make both sides losers
Not the billionaire hedge funders. Not a chance.
Post by: wetwillie on January 26, 2021, 06:15:45 PM
The SEC can make both sides losers
Not the billionaire hedge funders. Not a chance.
I think they will be the market based losers in this scenario.
Post by: Kat Kid on January 26, 2021, 06:23:49 PM
About this or just generally?the reddit/gamestop thing is so bizarre. i hope they all lose tons of money.I don’t think you hate populism, I think you just hate people.
I’d say you’re misguided about some things
Post by: chum1 on January 26, 2021, 06:56:10 PM
Quotebillionaire hedge funders.
I think they will be the market based losers in this scenario.
I tried to think about which side I would put my own money on. (1) I don't think these dudes below are going to want to back down at all - especially after already going in for a couple billion. (2) This is what they do. (3) They have billions more at their disposal.
Quote
Steve Cohen's Point 72, Ken Griffin's Citadel, and other partners are plowing a total of $2.75 billion into Melvin Capital, the hedge funds said on Monday. They will receive non-controlling revenue shares in Melvin in return for their money.
Post by: kim carnes on January 26, 2021, 06:57:51 PM
Post by: sys on January 26, 2021, 07:04:20 PM
Only one side is very clearly manipulating the stock price.
short sellers that reveal their position with a report outlining their allegations against the company involved are right on the edge of open manipulation.
they may be (in some cases, they definitely have) performing a market service in investigating fraud or other corporate malfeasance, but it's a niche that's very prone to manipulation.
Post by: steve dave on January 26, 2021, 07:48:31 PM
YesOnly one side is very clearly manipulating the stock price.
short sellers that reveal their position with a report outlining their allegations against the company involved are right on the edge of open manipulation.
they may be (in some cases, they definitely have) performing a market service in investigating fraud or other corporate malfeasance, but it's a niche that's very prone to manipulation.
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Post by: wetwillie on January 26, 2021, 07:59:31 PM
The inmates are running the asylum
Post by: Kat Kid on January 26, 2021, 08:58:39 PM
Post by: kim carnes on January 26, 2021, 09:13:26 PM
Post by: sys on January 26, 2021, 10:57:44 PM
https://twitter.com/BusinessGamer20/status/1354291685388333057
Post by: IPA4Me on January 27, 2021, 04:40:48 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210127/edba8ded9414c8723ef012402f092740.jpg)Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
Post by: slackcat on January 27, 2021, 04:59:22 AM
Post by: IPA4Me on January 27, 2021, 05:19:27 AM
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Post by: wetwillie on January 27, 2021, 07:03:54 AM
Quotebillionaire hedge funders.
I think they will be the market based losers in this scenario.
I tried to think about which side I would put my own money on. (1) I don't think these dudes below are going to want to back down at all - especially after already going in for a couple billion. (2) This is what they do. (3) They have billions more at their disposal.QuoteSteve Cohen's Point 72, Ken Griffin's Citadel, and other partners are plowing a total of $2.75 billion into Melvin Capital, the hedge funds said on Monday. They will receive non-controlling revenue shares in Melvin in return for their money.
:D
https://twitter.com/cnbc/status/1354406938319216640?s=21
Post by: chum1 on January 27, 2021, 07:15:21 AM
Post by: steve dave on January 27, 2021, 08:01:51 AM
Post by: IPA4Me on January 27, 2021, 08:11:48 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l60euz/theory_the_hold_is_working_and_the_squeeze_is/
Post by: Stupid Fitz on January 27, 2021, 08:47:44 AM
Quotebillionaire hedge funders.
I think they will be the market based losers in this scenario.
I tried to think about which side I would put my own money on. (1) I don't think these dudes below are going to want to back down at all - especially after already going in for a couple billion. (2) This is what they do. (3) They have billions more at their disposal.QuoteSteve Cohen's Point 72, Ken Griffin's Citadel, and other partners are plowing a total of $2.75 billion into Melvin Capital, the hedge funds said on Monday. They will receive non-controlling revenue shares in Melvin in return for their money.
:D
https://twitter.com/cnbc/status/1354406938319216640?s=21
He seemed sad delivering that news. Hilarious they are blaming an online forum for bullying a hedge fund. Its almost like it isn't fair for one side to have a platform to try and pump their investments. :rolleyes:
Post by: chum1 on January 27, 2021, 08:48:50 AM
Post by: cfbandyman on January 27, 2021, 08:56:56 AM
Quotebillionaire hedge funders.
I think they will be the market based losers in this scenario.
I tried to think about which side I would put my own money on. (1) I don't think these dudes below are going to want to back down at all - especially after already going in for a couple billion. (2) This is what they do. (3) They have billions more at their disposal.QuoteSteve Cohen's Point 72, Ken Griffin's Citadel, and other partners are plowing a total of $2.75 billion into Melvin Capital, the hedge funds said on Monday. They will receive non-controlling revenue shares in Melvin in return for their money.
:D
https://twitter.com/cnbc/status/1354406938319216640?s=21
He seemed sad delivering that news. Hilarious they are blaming an online forum for bullying a hedge fund. Its almost like it isn't fair for one side to have a platform to try and pump their investments. :rolleyes:
It is quite delicious and hilarious IMO. I don't play any of these games but I just find the whole situation really, really funny. Getting owned at their own game and then crying about it.
Post by: wetwillie on January 27, 2021, 09:07:00 AM
Post by: bucket on January 27, 2021, 09:16:51 AM
Post by: michigancat on January 27, 2021, 09:20:57 AM
Post by: IPA4Me on January 27, 2021, 09:21:20 AM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on January 27, 2021, 09:46:21 AM
I think I picked a great time to start day trading
haha, its pretty funny how this "New to Investing Thread" has turned. I imagine someone new clicking through here and then immediately closing their Robinhood account.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 27, 2021, 09:53:22 AM
Post by: IPA4Me on January 27, 2021, 09:56:11 AM
They buy and buy to drive the price upward.
This forces the hedge funds to borrow more to fund their shorts.
Eventually, the hedge funds can't get borrow any more and they are bankrupt.
Game over as stock crashes back to reality.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 27, 2021, 10:00:53 AM
Post by: IPA4Me on January 27, 2021, 10:02:29 AM
Post by: wetwillie on January 27, 2021, 10:03:44 AM
But isnt the point of shorting that the price is going to crash?
Yea but you have a relatively short time window for that to happen. These stock bros are basically keeping the price high long enough to force a call on that short position. Shorting is borrowing shares basically.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 27, 2021, 10:07:06 AM
Post by: kim carnes on January 27, 2021, 10:08:22 AM
Post by: wetwillie on January 27, 2021, 10:10:40 AM
Post by: kim carnes on January 27, 2021, 10:14:37 AM
Aren't the reddit nerds losing money too?
The ones who started this movement were long on the stock before any of this got started. They’re the main beneficiaries. But others are making money when those who were short have to cover their positions causing the stock to go up even further.
Post by: bucket on January 27, 2021, 10:15:10 AM
Post by: michigancat on January 27, 2021, 10:17:33 AM
Yea stock options in April 2020 or whenever they would have been paid out for 2019 around that time could be huge windfalls if sold in the last few days.
I'm guessing they're outside of their trading window and can only sit and watch.
Post by: IPA4Me on January 27, 2021, 10:18:48 AM
Post by: IPA4Me on January 27, 2021, 10:26:33 AM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on January 27, 2021, 10:27:15 AM
Yea stock options in April 2020 or whenever they would have been paid out for 2019 around that time could be huge windfalls if sold in the last few days.
I'm guessing they're outside of their trading window and can only sit and watch.
yeah, imagine being an employee and maybe having shares of this or AMC or whatever in your 401k and seeing your balance go way up knowing it will come down soon and there is nothing you can do about it.
Post by: IPA4Me on January 27, 2021, 10:30:26 AM
https://www.google.com/finance/quote/NOK:NYSE
Post by: ChiComCat on January 27, 2021, 10:49:40 AM
Post by: wetwillie on January 27, 2021, 11:05:54 AM
Yea stock options in April 2020 or whenever they would have been paid out for 2019 around that time could be huge windfalls if sold in the last few days.
I'm guessing they're outside of their trading window and can only sit and watch.
Isn’t the trading window 2 days after earnings gets reported and then lasts 30 days?
Post by: Pete on January 27, 2021, 11:09:42 AM
I think I picked a great time to start day trading
haha, its pretty funny how this "New to Investing Thread" has turned. I imagine someone new clicking through here and then immediately closing their Robinhood account.
Robinhood is bad, then? Summary for someone too lazy to go back and read this thread. He's Canadian.
Post by: IPA4Me on January 27, 2021, 11:11:08 AM
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Post by: michigancat on January 27, 2021, 11:12:12 AM
They reported Q3 earnings December 8. not sure if their holiday numbers release they just had opens a new window or not.Yea stock options in April 2020 or whenever they would have been paid out for 2019 around that time could be huge windfalls if sold in the last few days.
I'm guessing they're outside of their trading window and can only sit and watch.
Isn’t the trading window 2 days after earnings gets reported and then lasts 30 days?
Post by: wetwillie on January 27, 2021, 11:15:15 AM
They reported Q3 earnings December 8. not sure if their holiday numbers release they just had opens a new window or not.Yea stock options in April 2020 or whenever they would have been paid out for 2019 around that time could be huge windfalls if sold in the last few days.
I'm guessing they're outside of their trading window and can only sit and watch.
Isn’t the trading window 2 days after earnings gets reported and then lasts 30 days?
Yea not sure, I can’t imagine seeing that number in an account and not being able to pull the trigger.
Post by: Pete on January 27, 2021, 11:19:49 AM
Post by: steve dave on January 27, 2021, 11:21:18 AM
https://twitter.com/markets/status/1354479016774926339
Post by: Pete on January 27, 2021, 11:24:28 AM
Post by: ben ji on January 27, 2021, 11:26:30 AM
"And then on January 25th at 10:25 DiCkFaCe696969 said "HODL THE LINE, WE LIKE THIS STOCK" and the stock continued to surge.
Post by: steve dave on January 27, 2021, 11:29:19 AM
Really interested to see how this will be taught in business school in a couple of years. Will there be screen shots of of reddit threads included in the material?
"And then on January 25th at 10:25 DiCkFaCe696969 said "HODL THE LINE, WE LIKE THIS STOCK" and the stock continued to surge.
Thicc Dads Club quoted here
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/even-reddit-is-beginning-to-discuss-the-endgame-for-the-wild-gamestop-ride-11611747710
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsvecPaXEAM0_Uv?format=jpg&name=medium)
Post by: steve dave on January 27, 2021, 11:32:20 AM
Post by: steve dave on January 27, 2021, 11:34:38 AM
and, obviously, this month will probably be the last time any of them do so lesson learned there I guess.
Post by: ben ji on January 27, 2021, 11:34:59 AM
I can't stop following along because crap like this cracks me up
Quote
PlaneShenaniganz 176 points 13 minutes ago
🚀🚀🚀 UPVOTE/GILD SO PEOPLE CAN SEE 🚀🚀🚀
LISTEN TO ME. DO NOT SELL TODAY. OR ANY DAY THIS WEEK. Drops are coming. They are counting on fear to beat us. It’s the only weapon they have, but it won’t work because we are Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). The people are finally taking the power back from these boomer hedge fund big money shorting douchebags - the same people who mumped everyone over in 2008 with CDOs and continue to eff you over to this day. Get ready to make Melvin throat hard Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) dick. We only have strength if we stay in this TOGETHER. HOLD THE LINE. THE SHORT SQUEEZE HASNT HAPPENED YET. Don’t pussy out you rough ridin' idiots, we are going BALLS DEEP. $10,000 IS NOT A MEME. I love you all you beautiful autistic bulls. Hang tight while we ride this thing into the rough ridin' STRATOSPHERE.
APES TOGETHER STRONG 🦍 💎 🚀
Post by: IPA4Me on January 27, 2021, 11:38:09 AM
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Post by: ben ji on January 27, 2021, 11:42:15 AM
Post by: DaBigTrain on January 27, 2021, 11:46:26 AM
Post by: Dugout DickStone on January 27, 2021, 11:49:19 AM
As I read it the free market of the stock market is only free if Blackrock is making money off of Ma and pa. If its the other way around, they shut it down?
Post by: catastrophe on January 27, 2021, 11:51:35 AM
https://twitter.com/Investingcom/status/1354474816414343172?s=19I’ll admit this is all way over my head (exactly why I have no plans or desire to trade anything other than ETFs) but wouldn’t a halt in trading hurt the hedge funds just as much?
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Post by: IPA4Me on January 27, 2021, 11:54:38 AM
Limits the pain and stops the COLUSION by the reddit bros.https://twitter.com/Investingcom/status/1354474816414343172?s=19I’ll admit this is all way over my head (exactly why I have no plans or desire to trade anything other than ETFs) but wouldn’t a halt in trading hurt the hedge funds just as much?
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Post by: IPA4Me on January 27, 2021, 11:56:16 AM
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Post by: Institutional Control on January 27, 2021, 11:58:06 AM
Post by: IPA4Me on January 27, 2021, 11:59:18 AM
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Post by: wetwillie on January 27, 2021, 12:00:35 PM
Post by: kim carnes on January 27, 2021, 12:07:51 PM
Are reddit bros basically doing the same thing that hedge funds do on a daily basis?
not even close.
Post by: Dugout DickStone on January 27, 2021, 12:13:27 PM
Are reddit bros basically doing the same thing that hedge funds do on a daily basis?
not even close.
so, hit me with the differences.
Post by: steve dave on January 27, 2021, 12:14:29 PM
Are reddit bros basically doing the same thing that hedge funds do on a daily basis?No
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Post by: ben ji on January 27, 2021, 12:14:52 PM
Quote
proloyster 161 points an hour ago
CANCEL YOUR $420.69 SELL ORDERS
IT'S NOT A MEME ANYMORE
Quote
[–]Honeytoast100 80 points an hour ago
I've never seen a stock this volatile in my entire 4 hour stock trading career
Quote
PM_ME_YOUR_CATS_PAWS 66 points an hour ago
My literal boomer parents just tried to get me to sell for 300% gains
I gave it some thought. And by some I mean none.
BECAUSE IM NOT rough ridin' SELLING
Quote
Gog1a 45 points 22 minutes ago
I COULDVE CASHED OUT AT +100% YESTERDAY
I COULDVE CASHED OUT AT +250% TODAY
BUT I ASKED THE PILOT AND HE SAID THAT WE ARE NOT ON THE MOON YET SO STRAP ON AND PEG SOME BOOMERS
Post by: ben ji on January 27, 2021, 12:15:26 PM
Quoteproloyster 161 points an hour ago
CANCEL YOUR $420.69 SELL ORDERS
IT'S NOT A MEME ANYMOREQuote[–]Honeytoast100 80 points an hour ago
I've never seen a stock this volatile in my entire 4 hour stock trading careerQuotePM_ME_YOUR_CATS_PAWS 66 points an hour ago
My literal boomer parents just tried to get me to sell for 300% gains
I gave it some thought. And by some I mean none.
BECAUSE IM NOT rough ridin' SELLINGQuoteGog1a 45 points 22 minutes ago
I COULDVE CASHED OUT AT +100% YESTERDAY
I COULDVE CASHED OUT AT +250% TODAY
BUT I ASKED THE PILOT AND HE SAID THAT WE ARE NOT ON THE MOON YET SO STRAP ON AND PEG SOME BOOMERS
Post by: chum1 on January 27, 2021, 12:22:19 PM
https://twitter.com/CNET/status/1354488462938836992
Post by: kstate4life on January 27, 2021, 12:36:19 PM
lol
https://twitter.com/CNET/status/1354488462938836992
I just used it to buy some AMC, so currently not accurate.
Post by: chum1 on January 27, 2021, 12:38:19 PM
https://twitter.com/jeneps/status/1354495049397055494
Post by: wetwillie on January 27, 2021, 12:40:48 PM
Post by: chum1 on January 27, 2021, 12:44:26 PM
Post by: Dugout DickStone on January 27, 2021, 12:51:28 PM
So how is this different than a investors club on a larger scale?
Post by: Pete on January 27, 2021, 12:57:22 PM
Post by: Pete on January 27, 2021, 12:58:19 PM
Post by: catastrophe on January 27, 2021, 12:59:28 PM
Is this doing irreparable damage to the underlying credibility of the stock markets? I would think the SEC would be shitting bricks right now. It basically confirms groups of people on social media platforms can have their way with individual stocks.I don’t think your average investor (me) understands or cares all that much. It sounds like hedge funds trying to manipulate rules are getting pegged by activists trying to manipulate other rules. It’s a strange position for GameStop to be sure, though.
If I saw this doing any harm to the market, it would only be because if giant institutional investors suddenly lose their bankroll, there will be less water in the ocean and all ships would sink a bit.
Post by: Pete on January 27, 2021, 01:00:41 PM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on January 27, 2021, 01:04:37 PM
If they want to fix some of this crap, just make shorting illegal.
Not a great idea. Maybe think about making shorting more than the outstanding shares available illegal. That doesn't even make any sense.
Post by: Dugout DickStone on January 27, 2021, 01:06:09 PM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on January 27, 2021, 01:07:28 PM
Chamath just scorched the earth that is CNBC with that interview
that was pretty great. "Scott, why do you all of the sudden care about this now just because it is the retail investor doing it". prob not exact quote, but same.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on January 27, 2021, 01:08:00 PM
Stupid fitz doesn’t have a horrible idea
:blush:
Post by: Pete on January 27, 2021, 01:11:15 PM
Quote
Palihapitiya said the craze GameStop shares, a few other stocks like AMC Entertainment, is much more than just a trading story, arguing it’s a push back against the establishment.
“Instead of having ‘idea dinners’ or quiet whispered conversations amongst hedge funds in the Hamptons these kids have the courage to do it transparently in a forum,” he said. “What it proves is this retail [investor] phenomenon is here to stay. There are 2.7 million people inside wallstreetbets. I think they are as important as any hedge or collection of hedge funds.”
Palihapitiya claimed the best research on stocks done by retail investors inside wallstreetbets is nearly indistinguishable from the best research on Wall Street. “That edge is gone. Now all of a sudden, retail can be on the same footing and they don’t have to be the ‘bag-holder’ to Wall Street.”
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/27/chamath-palihapitiya-closes-gamestop-position-but-defends-individual-investors-right-to.html
Post by: IPA4Me on January 27, 2021, 01:15:26 PM
https://www.google.com/finance/quote/KALA:NASDAQ
Post by: Purple Derpathy on January 27, 2021, 01:19:40 PM
$20 Put option that expires at end of March. Cost was ~$300 for 100 shares. When it falls, it is going to fall hard.
Post by: IPA4Me on January 27, 2021, 01:36:42 PM
https://twitter.com/johndickson72/status/1354510267506429952
Post by: steve dave on January 27, 2021, 01:42:14 PM
I wonder how the Reddit bros feel about lining the pockets of Wall Street with this GME play.
https://twitter.com/johndickson72/status/1354510267506429952
yeah, WSJ had a piece about it and they had some bigs go off the record with them that they are certainly playing this thing. at the end of the day someone will be left holding the bag once all the shorts are out.
Post by: Brock Landers on January 27, 2021, 01:50:46 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 27, 2021, 01:52:39 PM
I bought one share of AMC this morning at like $14.50. See you losers on the moon.Think of us poors when you get there :-(
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Post by: IPA4Me on January 27, 2021, 02:20:51 PM
Wealth manager bud cashed out 2.6 MILLION shares this morning. :Woot:I wonder how the Reddit bros feel about lining the pockets of Wall Street with this GME play.
[tweet]1354510267506429952[/tweet]
yeah, WSJ had a piece about it and they had some bigs go off the record with them that they are certainly playing this thing. at the end of the day someone will be left holding the bag once all the shorts are out.
Post by: sys on January 27, 2021, 02:21:36 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 27, 2021, 02:23:01 PM
it'd be funny if gamestop could issue shares or buy something with its valueless shares and actually end up surviving.
yes
Post by: DaBigTrain on January 27, 2021, 02:33:09 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210127/417baf45a898ce396af910b36406ae8c.jpg)
Post by: kim carnes on January 27, 2021, 02:37:34 PM
it'd be funny if gamestop could issue shares or buy something with its valueless shares and actually end up surviving.
I was thinking about this yesterday, I believe all they need is board approval but I have no idea how long the entire process takes.
Post by: wetwillie on January 27, 2021, 02:55:43 PM
I wonder how the Reddit bros feel about lining the pockets of Wall Street with this GME play.
https://twitter.com/johndickson72/status/1354510267506429952
yeah, WSJ had a piece about it and they had some bigs go off the record with them that they are certainly playing this thing. at the end of the day someone will be left holding the bag once all the shorts are out.
I figured we were all being a bit tongue in cheek that it was retail investors vs institutions on this one. Pretty sure rival hedge funds just cut their competitors throats and the WSB people were perfect cover.
Post by: ben ji on January 27, 2021, 03:06:02 PM
:ROFL:
Quote
Tesla’s Elon Musk gave Reddit even more prominence as a trading forum on Tuesday as he tweeted “Gamestonk!!”, along with a link to the wallstreetbets subreddit. “Stonks” is a tongue-in-cheek term for stocks widely used on social media.
and :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Quote
Bright Trading’s Dick said he reads the headlines in the wallstreetbets subreddit each morning and scans the forum about five to 10 times a day. He said paying attention to overnight and early morning conversations are critical.
“It’s almost exhausting as a trader to pay attention to so many different sources that can move stocks,” Dick said. “And the Reddit one is right at the top of my list right now.”
(https://i.imgur.com/i2yYun3.gif)
Post by: IPA4Me on January 27, 2021, 03:13:40 PM
https://twitter.com/browch05/status/1354511678126362627
Post by: Sandstone Outcropping on January 27, 2021, 04:26:12 PM
Post by: Dugout DickStone on January 27, 2021, 04:28:36 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on January 27, 2021, 04:47:59 PM
This market action is crazy lol
Post by: chum1 on January 27, 2021, 04:59:48 PM
https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1354536220110577664
Are any Wall Streeters complaining?
Post by: Pete on January 27, 2021, 05:08:12 PM
well now trump supporters know which side to pick.
LOL, yep!
Post by: Kat Kid on January 27, 2021, 05:21:11 PM
Uh yeah. A good amount are making their “our sacred halls have been profaned” faces.https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1354536220110577664
Are any Wall Streeters complaining?
Post by: kim carnes on January 27, 2021, 05:41:52 PM
Post by: wetwillie on January 27, 2021, 05:54:49 PM
Ya score one for the people this time!
Black rock made like 3 Billion and some redditors got some scraps
Post by: sys on January 27, 2021, 05:57:23 PM
Post by: IPA4Me on January 27, 2021, 06:06:44 PM
Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
Post by: sys on January 27, 2021, 06:30:56 PM
https://twitter.com/jbarro/status/1354575914856820737
Post by: steve dave on January 27, 2021, 06:42:55 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on January 27, 2021, 06:44:56 PM
Post by: michigancat on January 27, 2021, 06:48:06 PM
sys....did you google "gamestop populist"?
lol
Post by: wetwillie on January 27, 2021, 06:50:30 PM
Does Josh Barro understand how options contracts work?
I maybe this guy has
https://twitter.com/rortybomb/status/1354497099895873543?s=21
Post by: sys on January 27, 2021, 06:52:54 PM
sys....did you google "gamestop populist"?
no, i follow barro.
Post by: IPA4Me on January 27, 2021, 06:54:00 PM
https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1354589235643363334?s=19
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Post by: sys on January 27, 2021, 06:56:18 PM
Does Josh Barro understand how options contracts work?
what is it about much of the trading being in derivatives do you think falsifies his thesis?
Post by: steve dave on January 27, 2021, 06:58:18 PM
Does Josh Barro understand how options contracts work?
I maybe this guy has
https://twitter.com/rortybomb/status/1354497099895873543?s=21
his follow up tweet is very good
https://twitter.com/rortybomb/status/1354498283524259840
Post by: chum1 on January 27, 2021, 07:02:22 PM
i can't access the article here, but i suspect that the thesis expressed in these tweets is correct. most of the paper gains will not be realized and those that are realized will mostly not have been funded by losses from the funds that were originally shorting the stock.
Quote
Yes, some hedge funds lost money, and a lot of retail investors are up, for now. But they can't access those gains until they sell. When they sell, the price of GameStop will fall, and the retail investors who bought late will lose money because there's no fundamental reason for other people to buy in at such a high price.
And why should we assume the net losses on this price roller coaster will accrue to institutional investors? Some shorts got popped with the run-up in GameStop, but a fading, money-losing business with a sudden market cap over $20 billion for no good reason is surely attractive to new short sellers, who will gain as the new retail buyers lose.
If GameStop is overvalued by $20 billion right now, that's $20 billion of losses waiting to accrue, largely to ordinary investors who got caught up in a fad. And while some of the traders have gotten cheered for buying at the top by their internet friends, this is far from a desirable democratization of Wall Street — this is just a new way for regular people to lose their shirts.
Post by: Kat Kid on January 27, 2021, 07:14:40 PM
Well the people that used leverage to short the stock are the ones that are finding out how painful an infinite amount of risk and margin calls can be. Buying Calls, even with margin, have defined risk.Does Josh Barro understand how options contracts work?
what is it about much of the trading being in derivatives do you think falsifies his thesis?
I also just find Barro’s persistent smugness really grating. I can’t read the article either, but the Reddit folks pulled off a really smart trade and I think they should get credit not huffing about “what it all means” or “froth” or whatever other tsk-tsking is going on. Good on Chamath and Jim Cramer for not doing that.
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Post by: sys on January 27, 2021, 07:31:36 PM
Well the people that used leverage to short the stock are the ones that are finding out how painful an infinite amount of risk and margin calls can be. Buying Calls, even with margin, have defined risk.
I also just find Barro’s persistent smugness really grating. I can’t read the article either, but the Reddit folks pulled off a really smart trade and I think they should get credit not huffing about “what it all means” or “froth” or whatever other tsk-tsking is going on. Good on Chamath and Jim Cramer for not doing that.
although it changes every 5 minutes, the last number is saw had gamestop's marketcap at 20 b. i don't know what melvin and citron's losses are, but i think i've seen estimates at around 2-4 b. gamestop, unless they can somehow use this weirdness to save themselves, is worth $0.
so even if all of the short sellers' losses end up being realized, there is something like another 16 b in losses that will come from other individuals. those people aren't innocents either, and frankly deserve to lose money for piling into this ridiculous stunt, but as barro states, it's a weird thing to be cheerleading.
Post by: Kat Kid on January 27, 2021, 08:54:02 PM
Well the people that used leverage to short the stock are the ones that are finding out how painful an infinite amount of risk and margin calls can be. Buying Calls, even with margin, have defined risk.
I also just find Barro’s persistent smugness really grating. I can’t read the article either, but the Reddit folks pulled off a really smart trade and I think they should get credit not huffing about “what it all means” or “froth” or whatever other tsk-tsking is going on. Good on Chamath and Jim Cramer for not doing that.
although it changes every 5 minutes, the last number is saw had gamestop's marketcap at 20 b. i don't know what melvin and citron's losses are, but i think i've seen estimates at around 2-4 b. gamestop, unless they can somehow use this weirdness to save themselves, is worth $0.
so even if all of the short sellers' losses end up being realized, there is something like another 16 b in losses that will come from other individuals. those people aren't innocents either, and frankly deserve to lose money for piling into this ridiculous stunt, but as barro states, it's a weird thing to be cheerleading.
no it isn't. the fact you just assert it is worth $0 and then move on makes the rest of your argument dumb. Calling it a "ridiculous stunt" underlines the point that you and barro mostly just find this uncouth or something and thus worthy of disdain.
Post by: sys on January 27, 2021, 08:58:26 PM
if you want to argue otherwise, i'm happy to listen.
Post by: Kat Kid on January 27, 2021, 09:14:38 PM
But GME with that much short interest and so few shares outstanding, was ripe for the picking and a bunch of people made money. I definitely think some people will lose money from here, but retail people are not the group of people that have really lost money right now.
Post by: TheHamburglar on January 27, 2021, 09:15:37 PM
Does Josh Barro understand how options contracts work?
I maybe this guy has
https://twitter.com/rortybomb/status/1354497099895873543?s=21
At one point in my life I knew what that meant, which is crazy to me.
Post by: ben ji on January 27, 2021, 09:18:01 PM
Well the people that used leverage to short the stock are the ones that are finding out how painful an infinite amount of risk and margin calls can be. Buying Calls, even with margin, have defined risk.
I also just find Barro’s persistent smugness really grating. I can’t read the article either, but the Reddit folks pulled off a really smart trade and I think they should get credit not huffing about “what it all means” or “froth” or whatever other tsk-tsking is going on. Good on Chamath and Jim Cramer for not doing that.
although it changes every 5 minutes, the last number is saw had gamestop's marketcap at 20 b. i don't know what melvin and citron's losses are, but i think i've seen estimates at around 2-4 b. gamestop, unless they can somehow use this weirdness to save themselves, is worth $0.
so even if all of the short sellers' losses end up being realized, there is something like another 16 b in losses that will come from other individuals. those people aren't innocents either, and frankly deserve to lose money for piling into this ridiculous stunt, but as barro states, it's a weird thing to be cheerleading.
I think the main hedge fund that owns the short positions is down alot more than 2-4b. They got a loan/injection of capital of 2.75b yesterday morning and it was all wiped out by GAMESTONK gains that day.
But I've got most of my info from users on WSB like Thicc Dads Club and OpenPosition69 so who the hell knows. (Reason #1 I'm sitting this one out and sticking to my my index funds and small dabbling of long term individual stonks)
Post by: kim carnes on January 27, 2021, 09:28:50 PM
It was speculation to think that the stock was going to $0, it was very speculative to come in as a short when short interest was 140% of the outstanding stock. Obviously, the company isn't worth what the price is now, but the holiday season is its best quarter and it isn't like the thing was Hertz. It was actually a deep value play kind of like AMC, ironically the kind of stock Buffet and Benjamin Graham used to love.
But GME with that much short interest and so few shares outstanding, was ripe for the picking and a bunch of people made money. I definitely think some people will lose money from here, but retail people are not the group of people that have really lost money right now.
BofA had a $1.50 price target on it until recently. It’s a brick and mortar chain that sells video games and has lost money in three straight quarters.
Post by: sys on January 27, 2021, 09:36:01 PM
I think the main hedge fund that owns the short positions is down alot more than 2-4b. They got a loan/injection of capital of 2.75b yesterday morning and it was all wiped out by GAMESTONK gains that day.
according to their public comments, both citron and melvin closed their short positions earlier this week. a third party estimate put total short losses at 5 b, so i think 2-4 billion is probably in the ballpark for citron and melvin.
Post by: Kat Kid on January 27, 2021, 10:06:40 PM
It was speculation to think that the stock was going to $0, it was very speculative to come in as a short when short interest was 140% of the outstanding stock. Obviously, the company isn't worth what the price is now, but the holiday season is its best quarter and it isn't like the thing was Hertz. It was actually a deep value play kind of like AMC, ironically the kind of stock Buffet and Benjamin Graham used to love.
But GME with that much short interest and so few shares outstanding, was ripe for the picking and a bunch of people made money. I definitely think some people will lose money from here, but retail people are not the group of people that have really lost money right now.
BofA had a $1.50 price target on it until recently. It’s a brick and mortar chain that sells video games and has lost money in three straight quarters.
I want to be clear, I don't think the stock at $300 is based on any sort of dcf analysis or future earnings growth. I also think characterizing it as teetering on the verge of filing for bankruptcy is not really accurate.
Post by: sys on January 27, 2021, 10:18:55 PM
I also think characterizing it as teetering on the verge of filing for bankruptcy is not really accurate.
i agree with that. i don't think they are going to go bankrupt in 2021.
Post by: ben ji on January 27, 2021, 10:47:24 PM
I'm just imagining 52 year old Adena Freeman yelling at some new 21 year old intern to tell her what the internet is saying now.https://www-marketwatch-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/tendies-diamond-hands-your-guide-to-the-lingo-on-wallstreetbets-the-reddit-forum-fueling-gamestops-rise-11611780829?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=16118015382944&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.marketwatch.com%2Fstory%2Ftendies-diamond-hands-your-guide-to-the-lingo-on-wallstreetbets-the-reddit-forum-fueling-gamestops-rise-11611780829
Post by: sys on January 28, 2021, 06:38:46 AM
https://twitter.com/LDrogen/status/1354768591250481155
Post by: slackcat on January 28, 2021, 06:46:21 AM
It's a day trader's wet dream right now. Load up. Cash out initial investment. Keep letting it ride up and cash out profit daily.
:)
Post by: slackcat on January 28, 2021, 07:26:47 AM
I feel sorry for your family but not you...........
Quote
Citron Research’s Andrew Left wrote in a Tuesday post on Twitter that he plans to host a livestream discussing five reasons those buying GameStop (ticker: GME) stock at recent levels “are the suckers at this poker game.”
“Stock back to $20 fast,” he wrote. “We understand short interest better than you and will explain.”
Had a large short interest at this time.
Post by: IPA4Me on January 28, 2021, 07:34:17 AM
https://twitter.com/RampCapitalLLC/status/1354780260924063746
Post by: wetwillie on January 28, 2021, 07:39:33 AM
Post by: IPA4Me on January 28, 2021, 07:41:58 AM
Post by: Pete on January 28, 2021, 07:47:11 AM
Post by: cfbandyman on January 28, 2021, 07:50:53 AM
Can someone explain to me why short selling provides any valuable service to a market? With put options readily available, why should shorts be allowed to exist?
Why does gambling? Or anything else that is basically passive income that is the stock market. Kind of the natural result of the way it works (right now) iyam.
Post by: cfbandyman on January 28, 2021, 07:59:02 AM
i can't access the article here, but i suspect that the thesis expressed in these tweets is correct. most of the paper gains will not be realized and those that are realized will mostly not have been funded by losses from the funds that were originally shorting the stock.QuoteYes, some hedge funds lost money, and a lot of retail investors are up, for now. But they can't access those gains until they sell. When they sell, the price of GameStop will fall, and the retail investors who bought late will lose money because there's no fundamental reason for other people to buy in at such a high price.
And why should we assume the net losses on this price roller coaster will accrue to institutional investors? Some shorts got popped with the run-up in GameStop, but a fading, money-losing business with a sudden market cap over $20 billion for no good reason is surely attractive to new short sellers, who will gain as the new retail buyers lose.
If GameStop is overvalued by $20 billion right now, that's $20 billion of losses waiting to accrue, largely to ordinary investors who got caught up in a fad. And while some of the traders have gotten cheered for buying at the top by their internet friends, this is far from a desirable democratization of Wall Street — this is just a new way for regular people to lose their shirts.
I think the difference here is this feeling of "regular" people being able to manipulate the stock vs the real or perceived manipulation of the "forces of wall street" like a hedge fund.
It will definitely blow up in the face of a lot of people, but it will also make some people silly stupid rich. This is basically 2020's version of yuppies. They'll learn their lessons eventually, but I do find it really funny to see the panic and glee of everything going on. What will break it is when they do decide to sell out and those who are too slow on their apps end up selling the stock for a loss and get bitter at those who made said killing and leave the game.
Post by: steve dave on January 28, 2021, 08:20:50 AM
Can someone explain to me why short selling provides any valuable service to a market? With put options readily available, why should shorts be allowed to exist?
I don't know the answer to the question but I'm a put option man myself when I do dabble.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/028/021/work.jpg)
Post by: slackcat on January 28, 2021, 08:24:49 AM
Post by: catastrophe on January 28, 2021, 08:27:07 AM
Gambling is illegal in many places and most passive income from the market is basically like a return from a business loan.Can someone explain to me why short selling provides any valuable service to a market? With put options readily available, why should shorts be allowed to exist?
Why does gambling? Or anything else that is basically passive income that is the stock market. Kind of the natural result of the way it works (right now) iyam.
Post by: cfbandyman on January 28, 2021, 08:47:02 AM
Gambling is illegal in many places and most passive income from the market is basically like a return from a business loan.Can someone explain to me why short selling provides any valuable service to a market? With put options readily available, why should shorts be allowed to exist?
Why does gambling? Or anything else that is basically passive income that is the stock market. Kind of the natural result of the way it works (right now) iyam.
I don't disagree with the premises of any of that, just this goes back to where value comes from, and while I play the boring long con of the market like most low info guys, to me true value comes from the labor and work put into something. So to answer pete's question about what value short selling provides, the answer is none, same with any form of gambling, which shorting in a lot of ways is. I'm not debating whether it should be legal or not, just any of this stuff is not value driven growth or wealth (very obviously), but it sure as crap happens all over the place, not just these robinhooders.
The original premise of a stock market, where people own shares in a company to help infuse it with extra capital to go and grow and then they pay you, the owner for pushing money into them, a dividend or you sell at a higher price, of course it passive income like a loan, you did after all "loan" them money to go build their business and you aren't doing the work, they are. I am just saying you aren't providing value, the business, who does the work is, and the stock market simply at this point has been perverted so much it doesn't reflect what true value is, (see Tesla)
Post by: Dugout DickStone on January 28, 2021, 09:12:53 AM
Post by: wetwillie on January 28, 2021, 09:49:11 AM
Post by: Justwin on January 28, 2021, 09:49:35 AM
Isn't the real lesson here that the big guys don't like it when you mess with their profit machines and they will shut you down. The government will help.
This is the lesson I am taking away from all of this.
Post by: chum1 on January 28, 2021, 10:03:15 AM
Post by: Spracne on January 28, 2021, 10:19:12 AM
Post by: mocat on January 28, 2021, 10:20:13 AM
https://twitter.com/jarule/status/1354812123080138759?s=19
Post by: Catchacold on January 28, 2021, 10:25:22 AM
Quote
Game Stop (GME) and AMC Entertainment Holdings (AMC) are now blocked for opening transactions
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 28, 2021, 10:49:02 AM
Spoke to my brother who apparently is in for a few grand at an avg price of $277/each. He seems content to basically lose it all to stick it to the man. So, there's part of your answer.
I'm not sure how taking a loss would be sticking it to the man.
Post by: catastrophe on January 28, 2021, 10:53:51 AM
Cause I fundamentally don’t understand how the big guys can be actively hurt by a stock being up over the course of a week.
Post by: star seed 7 on January 28, 2021, 10:55:54 AM
Maybe someone can provide a “shorting for dummies” to make sure we’re all on the same page.
Cause I fundamentally don’t understand how the big guys can be actively hurt by a stock being up over the course of a week.
This helped me a lot. It's one of those things that when I read about it's understandable but I can never retain the knowledge.
https://twitter.com/_jimmykelly/status/1354600999835607041?s=19
Post by: star seed 7 on January 28, 2021, 11:00:36 AM
Post by: Dugout DickStone on January 28, 2021, 11:07:38 AM
Who is shutting down who and who is benefitting from it?
I mean, there are tons of posts of various private entities preventing trading of AMC and GME
Post by: IPA4Me on January 28, 2021, 11:08:08 AM
Post by: chum1 on January 28, 2021, 11:17:43 AM
Who is shutting down who and who is benefitting from it?
I mean, there are tons of posts of various private entities preventing trading of AMC and GME
That happens every day. It's like a timeout to help prevent shenanigans or panic trading. It doesn't discriminate between big guys and small guys.
Post by: Spracne on January 28, 2021, 11:19:10 AM
Post by: star seed 7 on January 28, 2021, 11:20:11 AM
Who is shutting down who and who is benefitting from it?
I mean, there are tons of posts of various private entities preventing trading of AMC and GME
That happens every day. It's like a timeout to help prevent shenanigans or panic trading. It doesn't discriminate between big guys and small guys.
The problem is that the big guys are still able to trade
Post by: kim carnes on January 28, 2021, 11:20:26 AM
Maybe someone can provide a “shorting for dummies” to make sure we’re all on the same page.
Cause I fundamentally don’t understand how the big guys can be actively hurt by a stock being up over the course of a week.
Google both short squeeze and margin call
Post by: wetwillie on January 28, 2021, 11:22:19 AM
Who is shutting down who and who is benefitting from it?
I mean, there are tons of posts of various private entities preventing trading of AMC and GME
That happens every day. It's like a timeout to help prevent shenanigans or panic trading. It doesn't discriminate between big guys and small guys.
The market halting trading and a specific platform halting trading are two different things. A no fee platform catering specifically to retail investors getting shut down that also happens to be backed by the funds getting murdered on their short positions is definitely not hurting both sides equally.
Post by: IPA4Me on January 28, 2021, 11:24:41 AM
BingoWho is shutting down who and who is benefitting from it?
I mean, there are tons of posts of various private entities preventing trading of AMC and GME
That happens every day. It's like a timeout to help prevent shenanigans or panic trading. It doesn't discriminate between big guys and small guys.
The market halting trading and a specific platform halting trading are two different things. A no fee platform catering specifically to retail investors getting shut down that also happens to be backed by the funds getting murdered on their short positions is definitely not hurting both sides equally.
Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
Post by: steve dave on January 28, 2021, 11:26:30 AM
https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/1354833603943931905
Post by: Dugout DickStone on January 28, 2021, 11:27:31 AM
Who is shutting down who and who is benefitting from it?
I mean, there are tons of posts of various private entities preventing trading of AMC and GME
That happens every day. It's like a timeout to help prevent shenanigans or panic trading. It doesn't discriminate between big guys and small guys.
The problem is that the big guys are still able to trade
yeah, this is the problem
Post by: chum1 on January 28, 2021, 11:28:51 AM
Often enough, there is. I don't see it here.
Post by: wetwillie on January 28, 2021, 11:30:09 AM
we seem to have some broad consensus on this one lmao
https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/1354833603943931905
Lmao they are mumped
Post by: chum1 on January 28, 2021, 11:30:22 AM
Post by: steve dave on January 28, 2021, 11:35:46 AM
we seem to have some broad consensus on this one lmao
https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/1354833603943931905
Lmao they are mumped
consensus has somehow broadened further lmao
https://twitter.com/litcapital/status/1354839492637679616
Post by: steve dave on January 28, 2021, 11:36:40 AM
Post by: chum1 on January 28, 2021, 11:38:53 AM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on January 28, 2021, 11:49:59 AM
lolIts MURRDDDDAAAAAA
https://twitter.com/jarule/status/1354812123080138759?s=19
Post by: IPA4Me on January 28, 2021, 12:04:29 PM
I just checked and I can buy GME and AMC. I'm not a big guy.What platform are you using?
Post by: catastrophe on January 28, 2021, 12:06:40 PM
This is missing the timing part for me. Yeah, you gotta pay it back at some point, but why wouldn’t you just hold for now? Are they honestly concerned that the investors will prop up GameStop for years to come.Maybe someone can provide a “shorting for dummies” to make sure we’re all on the same page.
Cause I fundamentally don’t understand how the big guys can be actively hurt by a stock being up over the course of a week.
This helped me a lot. It's one of those things that when I read about it's understandable but I can never retain the knowledge.
https://twitter.com/_jimmykelly/status/1354600999835607041?s=19
Post by: steve dave on January 28, 2021, 12:12:37 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Es1osnYXUAc8BBC?format=jpg&name=large)
Post by: chum1 on January 28, 2021, 12:13:34 PM
I just checked and I can buy GME and AMC. I'm not a big guy.What platform are you using?
Interactive Brokers
Post by: steve dave on January 28, 2021, 12:16:12 PM
https://twitter.com/ibkr/status/1354792600004386818
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: star seed 7 on January 28, 2021, 12:23:25 PM
Post by: kim carnes on January 28, 2021, 12:25:43 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on January 28, 2021, 12:41:23 PM
Post by: cfbandyman on January 28, 2021, 12:48:47 PM
we seem to have some broad consensus on this one lmao
https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/1354833603943931905
Lmao they are mumped
consensus has somehow broadened further lmao
https://twitter.com/litcapital/status/1354839492637679616
how they decide to handle it though will be the difference, cruz/djr will want it wild west, aoc and talib want regs, but yes, everyone can clearly see this game rigged out in the open right now
Post by: kim carnes on January 28, 2021, 12:50:07 PM
we seem to have some broad consensus on this one lmao
https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/1354833603943931905
Lmao they are mumped
consensus has somehow broadened further lmao
https://twitter.com/litcapital/status/1354839492637679616
We have consensus among all of the biggest clowns in politics
Post by: Spracne on January 28, 2021, 12:59:07 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 28, 2021, 01:00:38 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Spracne on January 28, 2021, 01:03:35 PM
Sell
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sure, I could take a $240 profit. But what of the Gunpowder treason and plot?!?
Post by: Spracne on January 28, 2021, 01:07:40 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on January 28, 2021, 01:10:09 PM
I don't mind losing $240 to change the world. I'm part of a movement, here. We're going to stick our diamond fingers in The Man's fat eyeball.
Damn the man, save the empire
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 28, 2021, 01:10:52 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on January 28, 2021, 01:13:11 PM
Post by: cfbandyman on January 28, 2021, 01:15:37 PM
This is missing the timing part for me. Yeah, you gotta pay it back at some point, but why wouldn’t you just hold for now? Are they honestly concerned that the investors will prop up GameStop for years to come.Maybe someone can provide a “shorting for dummies” to make sure we’re all on the same page.
Cause I fundamentally don’t understand how the big guys can be actively hurt by a stock being up over the course of a week.
This helped me a lot. It's one of those things that when I read about it's understandable but I can never retain the knowledge.
https://twitter.com/_jimmykelly/status/1354600999835607041?s=19
Watch the end market scene from Trading Places, that's basically a short happening in front of you
Post by: Gooch on January 28, 2021, 01:25:17 PM
lolQue Dave Chappelle.
https://twitter.com/jarule/status/1354812123080138759?s=19
Post by: Pete on January 28, 2021, 01:28:55 PM
https://twitter.com/avalonpenrose/status/1354496683938201600
Interesting if true. I enjoy learning.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on January 28, 2021, 01:32:42 PM
https://twitter.com/avalonpenrose/status/1354496683938201600
Initially I didn't think I was going going to enjoy this much at all, but I really really did. This was great.
Post by: steve dave on January 28, 2021, 01:43:33 PM
https://twitter.com/SawyerHackett/status/1354875520924717057
Post by: Spracne on January 28, 2021, 01:45:46 PM
Post by: wetwillie on January 28, 2021, 01:48:47 PM
Post by: Spracne on January 28, 2021, 01:49:58 PM
Post by: Brock Landers on January 28, 2021, 01:52:03 PM
Post by: bucket on January 28, 2021, 02:51:24 PM
Post by: wetwillie on January 28, 2021, 03:08:28 PM
The Wolf of Wall Street was just on CNN and he said that Robinhood and other platforms are blocking buying by retail investors because they could be held liable for this colluding to drive up the price of the stocks in question.
I guess chum’s brokerage doesn’t fear the COLUSION charge.
Post by: steve dave on January 28, 2021, 03:10:26 PM
The Wolf of Wall Street was just on CNN and he said that Robinhood and other platforms are blocking buying by retail investors because they could be held liable for this colluding to drive up the price of the stocks in question.
they need to organize their reasoning and present a united front
https://twitter.com/zGuz/status/1354854476801302528
Post by: steve dave on January 28, 2021, 03:13:21 PM
the rich:
https://twitter.com/MarketWatch/status/1354900005597966336
Post by: Pete on January 28, 2021, 03:24:57 PM
this better be fake.
https://twitter.com/SawyerHackett/status/1354875520924717057
I read that Robinhood users sign arbitration agreements, so I wonder if they are just mumped even if it's true.
'
Post by: IPA4Me on January 28, 2021, 03:33:34 PM
this better be fake.https://twitter.com/FearlessGirl24/status/1354876859201298446
[tweet]1354875520924717057[/tweet]
Post by: DQ12 on January 28, 2021, 03:40:16 PM
Quote
I understand that My Account is self-directed. Accordingly, I appoint Robinhood Financial as My agent for
the purpose of carrying out My directions to Robinhood Financial in accordance with the terms and
conditions of this Agreement and any attendant risks with respect to the purchase or sale of securities.
Robinhood Financial is authorized to open or close My Account(s), place and withdraw orders and take
such other steps as are reasonable to carry out My directions. All transactions will be effected only on
My order or the order of My authorized delegate, except as described in Section 10. I understand
Robinhood Financial provides trading and brokerage services through the Robinhood website (the
"Website") and the Robinhood mobile application (the "App"). I agree to receive and transmit financial
information through such electronic means. My use or My grant of access to My Account to any third
party to access information or place transactions in My Account is solely at My risk.
Quote
10. I agree that Robinhood shall be entitled to act upon any oral instructions given by Me so long as
Robinhood reasonably believes such instruction was actually given by Me or My authorized agent
Post by: kim carnes on January 28, 2021, 03:53:28 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 28, 2021, 04:00:28 PM
Guys, I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that any actions taken by robinhood today were not done bc they were trying to appease wall street bc that would be incredibly dumb of them. It is antithetical to their entire business model. But I could be wrong.
agreed
Post by: wetwillie on January 28, 2021, 04:02:22 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 28, 2021, 04:05:05 PM
https://twitter.com/maybebullish/status/1354909048420900865
Post by: Pete on January 28, 2021, 04:40:43 PM
Post by: sys on January 28, 2021, 04:51:39 PM
https://twitter.com/zGuz/status/1354854476801302528
that makes sense. guy does a good job of communicating.
Post by: sys on January 28, 2021, 04:58:40 PM
Or maybe they were covering the transfer agent fees and all that crazy transactional fee bullshit and saying "free trades" but really they were like "I think we can make enough to cover the trades" and things got weird on the transaction fee structure and it was going to cost them a bunch and they just said eff it no.
i think (to be clear, i'm purely guessing), that they would have (maybe were) been willing to eat a few thousandth of a penny in losses on gme trades instead of making a few thousandth of a penny like normal rather than suffer this sort of publicity. the liquidity concerns make more sense as a reason for a brokerage to shut down new trading.
Post by: Kat Kid on January 28, 2021, 06:02:05 PM
-we limited trading in certain stocks
why? did the sec call? problems with liquidity?
-we did not do this at the direction of market makers, hedge funds or others.
-we are a brokerage firm with clearinghouse requirements. when there is volatility these amounts can fluctuate a lot.
-to protect our firm and our customers we had to act.
it sounds like there was a liquidity problem
-there was no liquidity problem, this was done pre-emptively and proactively. customers could sell them, we are working to fix this by tomorrow morning.
-we are the #1 app store, we are seeing unprecedented interest in investing and our platform
-we stand for everyday investors opening up access, commission free, whatever they want.
-in the past we have been criticized for not having more restrictions
but people say
-we have not seen this level of concentrated interest in a small number of names ever before
-we believe you should be able to buy/sell whatever you want subject to requirements
what do you say to customers that say maybe I should go somewhere else if you shut me out when I need to trade?
-we understand, we feel we made the right call
-we want a stable platform going forward and it is a priority to not have restrictions in the future
are you concerned investors fully understand the risks?
-we want to give education, but this is really about access
-we have stood for access in the face of criticism previously, we want to give them that ability
-the more individuals have access, the better we will be, it is everything we stand for
walk us through the moment you needed to restrict, you drew on credit lines, it sounds like something you should have figured out prior to today
-things that go viral on social media, this is something new. we've never been #1 on app store before, this is unprecedented
-credit lines was proactive, the deposit requirements at clearinghouses govern how much our clients can buy
-we want to put our customers in a position where our customers can be unrestricted so we tapped our credit lines to allow that
you are going to start allowing buying tomorrow
-what happens if this triggers the same thing tomorrow?
-we want to have buying safety the team was working very hard dealing with unprecedented volumes, we want to do that safely and be clear in communications, we shouldve been out there sooner, I own that and we are doing what we can for our customers
Post by: sys on January 28, 2021, 06:02:52 PM
Can someone explain to me why short selling provides any valuable service to a market? With put options readily available, why should shorts be allowed to exist?
shorting helps with efficient pricing. i'm not knowledgeable enough to know if derivatives alone would create the same effect, but i don't really see why it would be better to allow only one or the other.
Post by: DaBigTrain on January 28, 2021, 06:05:55 PM
Robinhood CEO CNBC interview cliffsAs someone who also watched the interview can confirm this is a very good cliff notes post
-we limited trading in certain stocks
why? did the sec call? problems with liquidity?
-we did not do this at the direction of market makers, hedge funds or others.
-we are a brokerage firm with clearinghouse requirements. when there is volatility these amounts can fluctuate a lot.
-to protect our firm and our customers we had to act.
it sounds like there was a liquidity problem
-there was no liquidity problem, this was done pre-emptively and proactively. customers could sell them, we are working to fix this by tomorrow morning.
-we are the #1 app store, we are seeing unprecedented interest in investing and our platform
-we stand for everyday investors opening up access, commission free, whatever they want.
-in the past we have been criticized for not having more restrictions
but people say
-we have not seen this level of concentrated interest in a small number of names ever before
-we believe you should be able to buy/sell whatever you want subject to requirements
what do you say to customers that say maybe I should go somewhere else if you shut me out when I need to trade?
-we understand, we feel we made the right call
-we want a stable platform going forward and it is a priority to not have restrictions in the future
are you concerned investors fully understand the risks?
-we want to give education, but this is really about access
-we have stood for access in the face of criticism previously, we want to give them that ability
-the more individuals have access, the better we will be, it is everything we stand for
walk us through the moment you needed to restrict, you drew on credit lines, it sounds like something you should have figured out prior to today
-things that go viral on social media, this is something new. we've never been #1 on app store before, this is unprecedented
-credit lines was proactive, the deposit requirements at clearinghouses govern how much our clients can buy
-we want to put our customers in a position where our customers can be unrestricted so we tapped our credit lines to allow that
you are going to start allowing buying tomorrow
-what happens if this triggers the same thing tomorrow?
-we want to have buying safety the team was working very hard dealing with unprecedented volumes, we want to do that safely and be clear in communications, we shouldve been out there sooner, I own that and we are doing what we can for our customers
Post by: sys on January 28, 2021, 06:08:28 PM
it sounds like there was a liquidity problem
-there was no liquidity problem, this was done pre-emptively and proactively.
these answers generally seem reasonable, but this is pretty funny. - "there was no liquidity problem because we stopped trading to prevent a liquidity problem."
Post by: Spracne on January 28, 2021, 06:11:42 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on January 28, 2021, 06:35:30 PM
Yeah, his talking points also included a refrain about “clients were also able to trade thousands of other stocks the entire time” which I left out.it sounds like there was a liquidity problem
-there was no liquidity problem, this was done pre-emptively and proactively.
these answers generally seem reasonable, but this is pretty funny. - "there was no liquidity problem because we stopped trading to prevent a liquidity problem."
I actually came away thinking this is actually pretty good news and as long as robinhood can survive the trading day tomorrow without shutting down the same names going to do a lot to improve their image particularly when even interactive brokers has limited trading on the same names.
He did directly say this had nothing to do with an SEC investigation or them selling their trade flow causing a conflict of interest which were both really awful (but unlikely) reasons.
Post by: sys on January 28, 2021, 08:10:57 PM
one upshot might be that if being able to trade the hottest names on the hottest days is important to you, you should probably stick to the largest brokers (but i think larger brokerages also halted trades today?).
https://twitter.com/KralcTrebor/status/1354952686165225478
Post by: steve dave on January 28, 2021, 08:24:17 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 28, 2021, 08:25:21 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 28, 2021, 08:27:59 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 28, 2021, 08:30:17 PM
Post by: Pete on January 28, 2021, 08:35:21 PM
good thread with more detail on why the brokerages got caught without sufficient liquidity. can't vouch for the accuracy, but the tweeter seems to know what he's talking about.
one upshot might be that if being able to trade the hottest names on the hottest days is important to you, you should probably stick to the largest brokers (but i think larger brokerages also halted trades today?).
https://twitter.com/KralcTrebor/status/1354952686165225478
This was good, I liked this explanation.
Post by: puniraptor on January 28, 2021, 09:22:17 PM
Post by: Spracne on January 28, 2021, 09:25:35 PM
Post by: chum1 on January 28, 2021, 09:51:19 PM
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/021015/how-do-you-transfer-common-stock-one-broker-another.asp
Post by: puniraptor on January 28, 2021, 09:59:08 PM
Investopedia has all the answers.
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/021015/how-do-you-transfer-common-stock-one-broker-another.asp
but that tweetthread told me that robinhood isnt a broker, and robinhood uses a variety of brokers?
i can just get a real broker and tell them to find and move my robinhood purchased shares?
Post by: puniraptor on January 28, 2021, 10:19:50 PM
Investopedia has all the answers.
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/021015/how-do-you-transfer-common-stock-one-broker-another.asp
but that tweetthread told me that robinhood isnt a broker, and robinhood uses a variety of brokers?
i can just get a real broker and tell them to find and move my robinhood purchased shares?
ok i googled it and basically you just get a real broker and ask them to do it.
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on January 28, 2021, 10:33:55 PM
Post by: sys on January 28, 2021, 10:36:01 PM
https://twitter.com/Bonecondor/status/1355004998741057537
Post by: Cardiac Cats on January 28, 2021, 11:09:30 PM
https://twitter.com/awealthofcs/status/1354863920469708802?s=20
Post by: chum1 on January 29, 2021, 07:23:42 AM
Quote
GameStop Corporation Common Stock (GME)
$193.60
CLOSED AT 4:00 PM ET ON JAN 28, 2021
$339.00
DATA AS OF JAN 29, 2021 8:22 AM ET - PRE-MARKET
Post by: steve dave on January 29, 2021, 07:36:01 AM
https://twitter.com/NoMansSky/status/1354932503098908672
Post by: mocat on January 29, 2021, 08:49:13 AM
https://twitter.com/caseyjohnston/status/1354967253146591232
holy crap
Post by: sonofdaxjones on January 29, 2021, 09:04:32 AM
Little guys, this stuff is only for our most favored (Securities and Exchange Commission)
Post by: sonofdaxjones on January 29, 2021, 09:06:43 AM
Post by: michigancat on January 29, 2021, 09:09:41 AM
My exact reaction when I went from the words to the photohttps://twitter.com/caseyjohnston/status/1354967253146591232
holy crap
Post by: steve dave on January 29, 2021, 09:09:53 AM
https://twitter.com/cnbcnow/status/1355160858645696523
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Post by: wetwillie on January 29, 2021, 09:18:52 AM
Post by: KITNfury on January 29, 2021, 09:42:37 AM
Should just drop case against XRP and focus on this IMOAgreed, and reddit should pump it up in celebration
Post by: chum1 on January 29, 2021, 09:50:39 AM
Post by: chum1 on January 29, 2021, 10:23:14 AM
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 29, 2021, 10:34:56 AM
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 29, 2021, 10:36:58 AM
https://twitter.com/hanasheikh_/status/1354896638033055745?s=20
Post by: chum1 on January 29, 2021, 10:46:55 AM
Post by: cfbandyman on January 29, 2021, 11:11:36 AM
The stock market craze makes me feel really stupid, because I don't understand the stock market at all and I don't even want to take the time to figure it out. I really enjoyed watching The Big Short, but I was so rough ridin' lost watching that movie. Sigh.
To be honest, I think 90% of americans feels that way about it, and more people have learned about the stock market this week than probably since 1929, cause the way 2007/8 worked is also not exactly straight forward unless you get a good doc to explain it to you. For most people all they care is their 401k's are funded and it's tied to the stock market in some way and you want it to go up and get returns so you can retire, and that is honestly probably as far as most people think about it. It's obviously way more than that, but that doesn't make you any sort of unique in this.
Post by: Spracne on January 29, 2021, 11:13:12 AM
Post by: star seed 7 on January 29, 2021, 11:52:25 AM
:bigtoke:
Post by: wetwillie on January 29, 2021, 12:09:38 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on January 29, 2021, 12:21:03 PM
Also got some AMC for the lols (and I'm rooting for them to survive).
Post by: Spracne on January 29, 2021, 12:22:34 PM
Guys, this kerfuffle got me to buy my first stock today.
:bigtoke:
STONKS
Post by: stunted on January 29, 2021, 12:27:22 PM
Post by: Spracne on January 29, 2021, 12:31:19 PM
can we team up and cast a wide net on the internet for easy money-making opportunities?
We need some of our young whippersnappers to trawl reddit and deposit the actual golden gems here. TIA.
Post by: kstate4life on January 29, 2021, 12:35:44 PM
can we team up and cast a wide net on the internet for easy money-making opportunities?
We need some of our young whippersnappers to trawl reddit and deposit the actual golden gems here. TIA.
DBT did that last Friday lol
Post by: ChiComCat on January 29, 2021, 12:37:10 PM
can we team up and cast a wide net on the internet for easy money-making opportunities?
We need some of our young whippersnappers to trawl reddit and deposit the actual golden gems here. TIA.
This place has been low on young whippersnappers for a while now
Post by: star seed 7 on January 29, 2021, 12:38:23 PM
There's a guy on the Texas board with a thread telling everyone to buy it before it even got to $10 that is rightfully gloating.
Post by: Institutional Control on January 29, 2021, 12:50:32 PM
Post by: Spracne on January 29, 2021, 12:53:54 PM
Post by: wetwillie on January 29, 2021, 12:56:55 PM
I didn't buy any stocks, I'm sticking exclusively to crypto, bros.
Coinbase is limiting trading based on what is happening with bitcoin today
Post by: Institutional Control on January 29, 2021, 01:00:41 PM
I didn't buy any stocks, I'm sticking exclusively to crypto, bros.
Coinbase is limiting trading based on what is happening with bitcoin today
I noticed that. I thought it was because I just opened an account last week.
I think I can still buy BTC on Cash app.
Post by: DaBigTrain on January 29, 2021, 01:03:50 PM
I didn't buy any stocks, I'm sticking exclusively to crypto, bros.
Coinbase is limiting trading based on what is happening with bitcoin today
I noticed that. I thought it was because I just opened an account last week.
I think I can still buy BTC on Cash app.
It’s been fixed on Coinbase but yeah CashApp rarely ever goes down.
Post by: Brock Landers on January 29, 2021, 01:05:54 PM
I didn't buy any stocks, I'm sticking exclusively to crypto, bros.
I'm the proud owner of $20 worth of Dogecoin. Man has walked on the moon, and soon Doge will too.
Post by: Institutional Control on January 29, 2021, 01:08:01 PM
I didn't buy any stocks, I'm sticking exclusively to crypto, bros.
I'm the proud owner of $20 worth of Dogecoin. Man has walked on the moon, and soon Doge will too.
Did you get it yesterday before it went up?
Post by: Brock Landers on January 29, 2021, 01:13:23 PM
I didn't buy any stocks, I'm sticking exclusively to crypto, bros.
I'm the proud owner of $20 worth of Dogecoin. Man has walked on the moon, and soon Doge will too.
Did you get it yesterday before it went up?
Yeah sort of, I got it at $.02347
Post by: Institutional Control on January 29, 2021, 01:22:25 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on January 29, 2021, 05:04:36 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/nakd/comments/l7rhs4/why_i_bought_nakd_and_why_i_will_keep_buying_more/
Post by: wetwillie on January 29, 2021, 05:08:36 PM
I think this was more or less already discussed, but Gov't regulation/liquidity were the brakes.
https://twitter.com/JamesSurowiecki/status/1355035563368321027?s=20
What is Robinhoods business model?
Post by: steve dave on January 29, 2021, 05:14:39 PM
2. profit
Post by: steve dave on January 29, 2021, 05:16:59 PM
Post by: wetwillie on January 29, 2021, 05:35:43 PM
1. sell flow to citadel
2. profit
So their only source of revenue is the company that had a huge short position in GameStop?
Post by: steve dave on January 29, 2021, 05:43:49 PM
1. sell flow to citadel
2. profit
So their only source of revenue is the company that had a huge short position in GameStop?
no
Post by: wetwillie on January 29, 2021, 05:47:48 PM
1. sell flow to citadel
2. profit
So their only source of revenue is the company that had a huge short position in GameStop?
no
How else do they make money besides selling flow to citadel
Post by: steve dave on January 29, 2021, 05:52:48 PM
1. sell flow to citadel
2. profit
So their only source of revenue is the company that had a huge short position in GameStop?
no
How else do they make money besides selling flow to citadel
I posted above your initial response about the subscription fees for margin. they also sell flow to more market makers than just citadel though I'm sure it's their big one. they also will make interest on money held (in normal interest environments anyway, lmao). probably some other stuff. I'm guessing the flow is the majority though.
Post by: wetwillie on January 29, 2021, 05:59:49 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 29, 2021, 08:03:54 PM
https://twitter.com/ParikPatelCFA/status/1355248406533447685
Post by: sonofdaxjones on January 29, 2021, 09:09:41 PM
But they've reverted in a good way
Post by: sys on January 29, 2021, 09:43:27 PM
How else do they make money besides selling flow to citadel
i bet they lend out their clients' shares to short sellers and pocket the fees.
Post by: IPA4Me on January 30, 2021, 05:12:37 AM
Bingo. Indeed they do.How else do they make money besides selling flow to citadel
i bet they lend out their clients' shares to short sellers and pocket the fees.
Post by: BW on January 30, 2021, 07:19:25 AM
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Post by: steve dave on January 30, 2021, 12:21:56 PM
https://twitter.com/zGuz/status/1355555307666235395
Post by: Pete on January 30, 2021, 12:34:33 PM
Post by: mocat on January 30, 2021, 12:40:21 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 30, 2021, 12:42:45 PM
Ok but why halt *only* buying
i mean, think of the ramifications of telling someone they can't sell their historically volatile asset....
Post by: steve dave on January 30, 2021, 12:44:34 PM
https://twitter.com/pearkes/status/1355574314217709572
Post by: mocat on January 30, 2021, 01:36:48 PM
Post by: sys on January 30, 2021, 08:38:49 PM
Post by: catastrophe on January 30, 2021, 09:13:55 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on January 30, 2021, 09:38:00 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 30, 2021, 09:50:17 PM
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Post by: steve dave on January 30, 2021, 09:51:38 PM
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Post by: DaBigTrain on January 31, 2021, 12:15:56 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l92fas/forever_never_dies/
Post by: DaBigTrain on January 31, 2021, 11:23:42 AM
Post by: Spracne on January 31, 2021, 12:21:04 PM
Post by: IPA4Me on February 02, 2021, 09:01:42 AM
https://twitter.com/SeanHassard/status/1355866106020433921
Post by: sys on February 02, 2021, 09:35:02 AM
https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1356618475234557956
Post by: IPA4Me on February 02, 2021, 09:39:31 AM
Post by: star seed 7 on February 02, 2021, 09:43:05 AM
Post by: kstate4life on February 02, 2021, 10:13:18 AM
Post by: chum1 on February 02, 2021, 06:43:18 PM
lol.
https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1356618475234557956
I was confused about why he blamed robinhood. Lol.
https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1356717445101273091
Post by: Kat Kid on February 02, 2021, 06:55:58 PM
Post by: wetwillie on February 02, 2021, 07:05:24 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 02, 2021, 07:08:31 PM
So the shorts ultimately feasted on the average retail investor in GME, who could have seen it coming.I mean....no?
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Post by: wetwillie on February 02, 2021, 07:14:31 PM
So the shorts ultimately feasted on the average retail investor in GME, who could have seen it coming.I mean....no?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It’s down $325 from last week, I’d say yes.
Post by: steve dave on February 02, 2021, 07:17:33 PM
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Post by: wetwillie on February 02, 2021, 07:22:43 PM
Where exactly do you believe these short positions are?
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Covered at the expense of the idiots who bought at $400?
Post by: Kat Kid on February 02, 2021, 07:40:52 PM
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Post by: steve dave on February 02, 2021, 07:57:45 PM
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Post by: sys on February 02, 2021, 09:49:39 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 02, 2021, 10:01:47 PM
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Post by: puniraptor on February 03, 2021, 06:32:28 AM
It is way more power user day trader oriented than robinhood, pretty wacky.
One interesting thing is that webull tells you when they loan out your stocks and pays you a share of the interest compared to how robinhood does it in secret and keeps the fees.
Post by: steve dave on February 03, 2021, 08:29:08 AM
RH: only crypto
Vanguard: only ETFs on auto each month. 401k is here too otherwise I’d do this elsewhere.
Ameritrade: zero balance but haven’t closed. Used to be primary.
Schwab: new primary for stonks. After they acquired TD I figured I’d beat them to the punch and just move there now. Feels very grown up and mature. Fancy
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Post by: sys on February 03, 2021, 08:47:28 AM
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/benn-eifert-explains-how-retail-trading-is-rocking/id1056200096?i=1000507547839
Post by: sys on February 03, 2021, 08:49:13 AM
Post by: steve dave on February 03, 2021, 08:55:05 AM
i don't really understand the point of robinhood/webull, whatever. is it just that they're more convenient to access on a phone?I’m not current on it but believe most of their original advantages no longer exist. I only use it because they have no fee crypto trading (though I assume I’m getting absolutely owned on spreads).
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Post by: slackcat on February 03, 2021, 09:03:38 AM
Post by: chum1 on February 03, 2021, 09:06:00 AM
Post by: Jobu on February 03, 2021, 09:08:39 AM
Post by: star seed 7 on February 03, 2021, 09:14:02 AM
Post by: Jobu on February 03, 2021, 09:23:28 AM
(https://cdn.themix.org.uk/uploads/2016/03/treat-yo-self-a0a132296e882e48eff26d588bc84142.gif)
Indeed. This was my thought as well.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on February 03, 2021, 09:46:16 AM
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on February 03, 2021, 09:59:44 AM
Post by: Institutional Control on February 03, 2021, 10:33:01 AM
I've been investing in lottery futures lately. Not going great. I do currently possess a $4 winning ticket. Thinking about rolling it back in, but might also use it on a tall boy. Thoughts?
If you need tips, lmk. I recently won MegaMillions.
Post by: slackcat on February 03, 2021, 01:06:51 PM
steve dave is it time to invest in this? https://news.bloomberglaw.com/environment-and-energy/first-ever-us-mining-of-rare-metals-could-come-from-nebraska
trading at .60$
Post by: puniraptor on February 03, 2021, 07:23:21 PM
Post by: sys on February 03, 2021, 09:02:09 PM
also, i think it's all pretty much mechanical, like when you place an order to sell short, the order processing involves finding a lender and securing those shares. and then if the lender sells their shares, that order involves automatically recalling their shares and the borrower is then automatically matched with another lender, etc.
at least for retail.
Post by: steve dave on February 05, 2021, 07:27:20 AM
So the shorts ultimately feasted on the average retail investor in GME, who could have seen it coming.I mean....no?
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here's where it has shaken out so far for shorts
https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/1357679251059843078
Post by: wetwillie on February 05, 2021, 08:24:09 AM
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on February 05, 2021, 11:29:51 AM
https://twitter.com/FANMAN_KSU/status/1357742797613387776?s=20
Post by: ben ji on February 05, 2021, 11:36:01 AM
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on February 05, 2021, 11:38:03 AM
That definitely sounds like a nightmare. Every time I've changed a job I roll my 401k into an my IRA ASAP so that the # in my IRA is bigger and I cant just stare at it.I don't even know what an IRA is. :lol:
Post by: star seed 7 on February 05, 2021, 11:39:18 AM
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on February 05, 2021, 11:43:55 AM
420seriouscat69, if you want some serious 401k shaming, I dumped everything I saved in my 20's on tuition and living expenses when I quit my job and went back to school and started over from 0 at 33.That's just goddamn impressive, bud. Good for you!
Now that i'm a parent, i'm starting to worry about this stuff now. I was too busy giving my paychecks to student loans in my 20's to give a damn about this stuff.
Post by: michigancat on February 05, 2021, 11:50:20 AM
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on February 05, 2021, 11:53:37 AM
At least you aren't in a crunch for the cash (hopefully) so sorting it out now is just kind of annoying :dunno:. I had a HSA from my past job that was just hanging around for like 4 years (mostly out of mind) before I finally transferred it into my new one. Kind of wonder what would have happened to it if I didn't.This is true.
the way some providers force you to transfer funds should be illegal IMO. mailing requests and checks? gtfoI honestly thought some of my past 401K companies would just blow me up some day and remind me that I have $ with them still. Unfortunately, that's not how it's working.
Also, remember when I worked for "for profit" institutions in recruiting? A lot of these places are closed now and there's no HR company to tell me where to go. :lol: I'm such an idiot.
Post by: steve dave on February 05, 2021, 12:05:06 PM
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Post by: 420seriouscat69 on February 05, 2021, 12:11:54 PM
wacky, we all do stupid stuff when we are younger. The important thing is you are doing smart stuff now!:thumbs: Thanks, friend! Well said.
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Post by: ben ji on February 05, 2021, 12:19:51 PM
That definitely sounds like a nightmare. Every time I've changed a job I roll my 401k into an my IRA ASAP so that the # in my IRA is bigger and I cant just stare at it.I don't even know what an IRA is. :lol:
Its an Individual Retirement Account that you can open with any provider out there. Instead of rolling all your old 401k's into your new 401k you can move the old 401k into your IRA which usually has lower fee's and better investment options.
It's perfectly fine to roll your old 401k's into your new one but I think its easier to just open an IRA and every time you change jobs just roll your 401k into that.
You can also contribute directly to your IRA up to 6k per year (depending on how much money you make) for a tax break but I don't want to overwhelm you in one post. Keep throwing cash in your 401k and you'll be good.
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on February 05, 2021, 12:30:39 PM
Post by: puniraptor on February 05, 2021, 07:10:11 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on February 05, 2021, 08:56:10 PM
Post by: ben ji on February 05, 2021, 09:33:24 PM
Index bros what's the deal with new these fidelity zero expense ratio funds? Gimmick? Subsidized from other funds for Market share grab?
I own a couple in my fidelity IRA and I'm not exactly sure so I did some googling...this was from a few years ago and fidelity no longer charges per trade.
Quote
The hope is that after opening an account with Fidelity -- or better yet, moving your million-dollar account to the brokerage -- you'll decide to place stock trades ($4.95 each) or put some of your money into its other mutual funds, which actually have management fees. If you keep any spare cash in your brokerage account, Fidelity will make money investing that cash and keeping most of the interest. Brokers make a lot of money on the spare cash you keep in your account -- it's one of the main ways the free brokerage service Robinhood makes money.
But even if you put all of your cash in its completely free funds, Fidelity can likely shave off a few dollars a year in revenue by lending out the stock the funds hold to short-sellers. Fund managers usually split so-called securities lending revenue with the funds' investors, sums that can easily rise into the tens of millions of dollars each year.
Post by: sys on February 05, 2021, 09:59:09 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 05, 2021, 10:16:24 PM
it's a really good time to be a retail investor. at least in terms of how brokerages treat you.My first brokerage was DLJ Direct as a Sr in HS. Iirc trades were $15 which was much less than most of the competition.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210206/ae5d6cf09dbe70a7c0f85e2a959b722e.jpg)
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Post by: sys on February 05, 2021, 10:23:58 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on February 06, 2021, 07:00:53 AM
Post by: sys on February 06, 2021, 03:08:46 PM
it's boa, if anyone else wants to take advantage of the offer. i wouldn't necessarily recommend them purely as a broker, but the website is good and they offer nice perks.
Post by: chum1 on February 08, 2021, 07:59:30 PM
Quote
The day after Alex took his own life, Robinhood sent an automated email suggesting the trade had been resolved and he didn't owe any money.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/alex-kearns-robinhood-trader-suicide-wrongful-death-suit/
Post by: chum1 on February 08, 2021, 08:01:01 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 08, 2021, 08:05:30 PM
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Post by: chum1 on February 08, 2021, 08:20:40 PM
What was the -$730,000 if not his losses?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeiklebnikov/2020/06/17/20-year-old-robinhood-customer-dies-by-suicide-after-seeing-a-730000-negative-balance/
Post by: michigancat on February 08, 2021, 09:37:03 PM
Post by: Pete on February 09, 2021, 07:29:53 AM
Post by: KITNfury on February 09, 2021, 07:53:00 AM
Man, I empathize with that kid. I have the type of personality and character defects that I'm more inclined to be afraid of financial insecurity than death. Poor kid. EVEN IF he really did have a -$700K balance, if he declares bankruptcy, then within 7 years or so he's back to full credit and well into the start of his career none the worse for it. Hell, he'd probably would have made a GREAT accounting or finance pro.That's what is so mumped up. Obviously that is a lot of coin to be in debt with, but at his age he could have recovered. Definitely not something worth dying over.
Post by: steve dave on February 09, 2021, 08:01:28 AM
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Post by: catastrophe on February 09, 2021, 08:05:39 AM
Although it is also very messed up that RH can basically send the guy a bill for over $100k and give him no realistic way to contact them about it.
Post by: Jobu on February 09, 2021, 08:10:54 AM
Sometimes kids don't realize that no matter how bad things look, there are solutions.
Suicide sucks.
Post by: KITNfury on February 09, 2021, 09:15:59 AM
Damn, what a tragedy.Yea, I couldn't see past my own nose at that age. Now that I'm middle aged I can see most mistakes/problems can be overcome.
Sometimes kids don't realize that no matter how bad things look, there are solutions.
Suicide sucks.
That's why it's so heartbreaking when a kid commits suicide over being picked on or whatever. If they only knew in a very short time everyone will go out on their own and find their own people and the world opens up a bit. All the BS high school provides simply dissipates. Classic long term solution to a short term problem, it's just hard to see the forest at that age.
Post by: sys on February 10, 2021, 07:37:21 AM
https://twitter.com/felixsalmon/status/1359331404211970050
Post by: kim carnes on February 10, 2021, 11:47:55 AM
Yeah I think the bigger issue is that we need to do a much better job of teaching kids basic finance principles and laws, including what it actually means to be in debt or bankrupt.
Although it is also very messed up that RH can basically send the guy a bill for over $100k and give him no realistic way to contact them about it.
You can tell them whatever you want, they wouldn’t listen.
Post by: catastrophe on February 10, 2021, 03:12:03 PM
Post by: slackcat on February 10, 2021, 05:28:46 PM
1. No drunk trading.
2. Sell the dogs
3. No drunk trading
Post by: kim carnes on February 10, 2021, 09:41:03 PM
Post by: sys on February 10, 2021, 11:04:30 PM
Post by: sys on February 11, 2021, 06:11:52 AM
https://twitter.com/NoonSixCap/status/1359836398426021889
Post by: slackcat on February 11, 2021, 06:25:45 AM
They literally do teach it in grade school
Curious, fill me in
Post by: slackcat on February 11, 2021, 06:27:13 AM
i don't think our schools should be teaching children to sell their dogs.
What if they want to take a long position in cats????
Post by: yoga-like_abana on February 11, 2021, 10:08:28 AM
Post by: sys on February 11, 2021, 10:34:15 AM
anyone messed around with penny stocks?
yeah.
Post by: chum1 on February 11, 2021, 10:51:33 AM
Quote
Cindicator has posted a job listing on LinkedIn hoping to hire one of the Redditors to conjure up some unintuitive data points.
The listing, for a Sentiment Trader, limits its search to applicants who have at least a year’s active membership on WallStreetBets and at least 1,000 of Reddit’s goodwill karma points. Job seekers should understand probabilities, but “higher education in economics or finance” is disqualifying. “In-depth knowledge” of the language of the finance world and its mechanisms is required.
The rest of the listing gets more esoteric, saying prospects should display “unbiased thinking that defies authority,” and they will spend most of their time “on Reddit, Discord chats, and Twitter to feel the pulse of the tens of millions of retail traders.” Additionally, “a refined taste for memes and a sense of humour” is essential.
https://gizmodo.com/wall-street-fund-wants-to-hire-r-wallstreetbets-users-t-1846232018
Post by: yoga-like_abana on February 11, 2021, 11:01:54 AM
thoughts? is it somewhat like BTC where you can drive yourself(or at least I did) crazy checking it constantly? And did you use TD ameritrade or what would you recommend?anyone messed around with penny stocks?
yeah.
Post by: sys on February 11, 2021, 11:38:51 AM
thoughts? is it somewhat like BTC where you can drive yourself(or at least I did) crazy checking it constantly? And did you use TD ameritrade or what would you recommend?anyone messed around with penny stocks?
yeah.
it's just like any other stock but they cost less per share. i don't check the ones i own any more often than i do more expensive shares and if they're more volatile on average, i haven't really noticed it. a few have gone to $0 or nearly so, but that's because they were bad companies that i was stupid to buy shares in, not because of the price per share.
most of the penny stocks i own are in a fidelity account.
Post by: Pete on February 11, 2021, 12:55:43 PM
Anyway, my advice would be to pick some that look good on paper (book value over market value, earnings to cover obligations, good ratios compared to peers, etc) and call the fuckers and chat them up. Then decide whether to buy them.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on February 11, 2021, 01:35:49 PM
Regarding penny stocks and cheap stocks in general, I spent some time messing around with these 20 years ago. When I was an MBA student at KU, I took a class called "Applied Portfolio Management," which was taught by the guy who owns/runs Jayhawk Capital (who is now a part of owner of the Royals). The class was real live money that this guy donated and was treated like part of the endowment for the B school. This guy was (prolly still is) a big value investor, so we'd look for companies with super cheap stocks that had decent book value and earnings enough to cover their debt, etc. Most of our work was really just re-evaluating stuff that was already in the portfolio tho. We'd pick up the phone and just call these companies' investor relations departments and chat them up. "you dudes going to pay down some debt or what?" It's amazing what they will tell you, and basically anyone could do this. He'd conduct conference calls with the CFO while we all listened in. "You guys going to finally start paying dividends?" all kinds of crap.Took a very similar class with Dr. Higgins at K-State. Was honestly the only interesting and relevant class I feel I ever took.
Anyway, my advice would be to pick some that look good on paper (book value over market value, earnings to cover obligations, good ratios compared to peers, etc) and call the fuckers and chat them up. Then decide whether to buy them.
Post by: puniraptor on February 11, 2021, 08:24:25 PM
They literally do teach it in grade school
Curious, fill me in
we did the stock market in 6th grade. Middle school for me but grade school for some?
we did a semester long paper trading exercise. i put YOLO ALL IN into venator and made a (paper) killing.
i dont think i learned very much tho except that there is a thing called stocks, you can buy and sell them, and their value changes based on how well the company is doing (lol)
Post by: slackcat on February 13, 2021, 06:42:53 AM
Quote
i dont think i learned very much tho except that there is a thing called stocks, you can buy and sell them, and their value changes based on how well the company is doing
There's the rub, limited exposure to the world of finance/money management. To lift a sector of society out of a life of poverty I think there should be ongoing education, K-12, from the basics of saving one's spare change to the ins and outs of trading or investing, money management. In between there can be taught how one can use their wealth to
acquire necessary lifetime assets such as transportation and housing. ie
Post by: michigancat on February 13, 2021, 08:25:40 AM
Might be easier and cheaper and lead to better results if the state just guaranteed housing, health care, transportation, and foodQuotei dont think i learned very much tho except that there is a thing called stocks, you can buy and sell them, and their value changes based on how well the company is doing
There's the rub, limited exposure to the world of finance/money management. To lift a sector of society out of a life of poverty I think there should be ongoing education, K-12, from the basics of saving one's spare change to the ins and outs of trading or investing, money management. In between there can be taught how one can use their wealth to
acquire necessary lifetime assets such as transportation and housing. ie
Post by: kim carnes on February 13, 2021, 10:30:45 AM
Post by: DaBigTrain on February 13, 2021, 10:43:22 AM
Post by: KITNfury on February 13, 2021, 11:00:36 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210213/825e599e9d89898813f0bf022ce6e789.jpg)I know we both primarily focus on different investment vehicles, but we can both agree on this. It reflects my thoughts almost to a tee.
Post by: wetwillie on February 13, 2021, 11:05:54 AM
Post by: KITNfury on February 13, 2021, 11:06:53 AM
Don’t both your investment vehicles benefit greatly from inflation?Yes. The pic is pointing out the flaws with traditional investments.
Post by: DaBigTrain on February 13, 2021, 11:07:05 AM
:cheers:(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210213/825e599e9d89898813f0bf022ce6e789.jpg)I know we both primarily focus on different investment vehicles, but we can both agree on this. It reflects my thoughts almost to a tee.
Yeah I thought it was well done.
Post by: wetwillie on February 13, 2021, 12:16:08 PM
Don’t both your investment vehicles benefit greatly from inflation?Yes. The pic is pointing out the flaws with traditional investments.
Real estate is like the oldest most traditional investment there is.
Post by: KITNfury on February 13, 2021, 12:35:43 PM
I understand that, but poll 100 people and see how many actually invest in it today.Don’t both your investment vehicles benefit greatly from inflation?Yes. The pic is pointing out the flaws with traditional investments.
Real estate is like the oldest most traditional investment there is.
Post by: sys on February 13, 2021, 12:38:00 PM
Post by: wetwillie on February 13, 2021, 12:41:43 PM
I understand that, but poll 100 people and see how many actually invest in it today.Don’t both your investment vehicles benefit greatly from inflation?Yes. The pic is pointing out the flaws with traditional investments.
Real estate is like the oldest most traditional investment there is.
Nearly 70% of Americans own real estate vs 55% in stock market.
Post by: KITNfury on February 13, 2021, 12:42:06 PM
i like how half of extremely online progressives instantly decided regulation in financial markets is an abomination, taxation is violence and someone needs to do something about this goddamn fed because some overgrown gamers bought stock in an obsolete mall store.I felt that way before it was cool, brah.
Post by: KITNfury on February 13, 2021, 01:10:37 PM
I won't fault you on this, most people think their home is an investment.I understand that, but poll 100 people and see how many actually invest in it today.Don’t both your investment vehicles benefit greatly from inflation?Yes. The pic is pointing out the flaws with traditional investments.
Real estate is like the oldest most traditional investment there is.
Nearly 70% of Americans own real estate vs 55% in stock market.
Post by: wetwillie on February 13, 2021, 01:13:28 PM
Post by: KITNfury on February 13, 2021, 01:15:26 PM
It is 100% an investment, a profitable one at that recently.Google "is your home an investment". It's amateur hour real estate investment at best, and not an investment at all in most realities.
Post by: steve dave on February 13, 2021, 01:41:09 PM
i like how half of extremely online progressives instantly decided regulation in financial markets is an abomination, taxation is violence and someone needs to do something about this goddamn fed because some overgrown gamers bought stock in an obsolete mall store.Yeah, I’m apparently very progressive all of a sudden
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Post by: Kat Kid on February 13, 2021, 01:50:31 PM
Post by: chum1 on February 13, 2021, 02:33:25 PM
Post by: sys on February 13, 2021, 02:44:13 PM
I am not in twitter, but I think sys’ characterization/definition of online progressives is probably like his “populist” definition here.
i mean, it's an exaggeration, but you can't expect me not to lmao @ this.
https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1354927288245231618
Post by: slackcat on February 14, 2021, 07:59:27 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on February 14, 2021, 12:46:48 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/02/14/sec-gamestop/
I read this and think this is probably about where AOC’s position is, from a perspective of consumer advocacy. I wish you’d just come out and say what you are trying to imply here.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 14, 2021, 12:51:33 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on February 14, 2021, 02:26:21 PM
Robinhood also seems like they are kind of a bit over their skis in terms of some of their customer service issues and so bringing some scrutiny of that would probably be good. Of course we will get some grandstanding and try to put people on the hot seat, but if that gets people to tighten up their own behavior, all for the better.
Post by: Kat Kid on February 19, 2021, 08:39:02 AM
Post by: steve dave on February 19, 2021, 09:18:20 AM
John Deere, should've stuck with it.My boo cathie had me covered here
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Post by: Kat Kid on February 19, 2021, 09:49:56 AM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: steve dave on February 19, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
Post by: DaBigTrain on February 19, 2021, 09:59:44 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on February 19, 2021, 10:50:20 AM
I have a roughly equal amount in ARRK, ARKQ, ARKW, ARKG and double in ARKF. The ARKK is obviously just doubling down on the holdings of the others. I want to make sure Cathie has the entirety of my back not just certain sectors of it.
I was left unprotected and unawares. Won't happen again.
Post by: sys on February 19, 2021, 10:56:32 AM
Post by: steve dave on February 19, 2021, 11:00:20 AM
this thread's evolution from taxadvantaged bogleheads to daytrading cryptobros has been a trip.lmao yes
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Post by: catastrophe on February 19, 2021, 11:42:16 AM
Post by: catastrophe on February 19, 2021, 11:43:58 AM
After doing more research, I think I'm likely throwing away some tax advantages from my allocations between my roth 401k and HSA contributions.Max out the HSA, pay for expenses with a cash back card, and invest what you can from the HSA balance, and you’ll be in great shape tax advantage wise.
Post by: michigancat on February 19, 2021, 12:02:26 PM
this thread's evolution from taxadvantaged bogleheads to daytrading cryptobros has been a trip.
I never ended up day trading, I have pretty much everything in the S&P 500 now and don't think about it
Post by: Pete on February 19, 2021, 12:18:37 PM
this thread's evolution from taxadvantaged bogleheads to daytrading cryptobros has been a trip.
Still a boglehead :don'tcare:
Post by: steve dave on February 19, 2021, 12:23:07 PM
Post by: chum1 on February 19, 2021, 12:28:31 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on February 19, 2021, 02:17:34 PM
My own journey for the duration of this thread has basically gone from 13 year-old trying a sip of champagne at one summer wedding to upperclassman regularly hitting Aggieville five nights a week.
Would love to hear more, post more about this
Post by: Spracne on February 19, 2021, 02:19:29 PM
My own journey for the duration of this thread has basically gone from 13 year-old trying a sip of champagne at one summer wedding to upperclassman regularly hitting Aggieville five nights a week.
Would love to hear more, post more about this
Yes, tell us the chum1 bildungsroman.
Post by: steve dave on February 19, 2021, 02:41:56 PM
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Post by: chum1 on February 19, 2021, 03:21:17 PM
My own journey for the duration of this thread has basically gone from 13 year-old trying a sip of champagne at one summer wedding to upperclassman regularly hitting Aggieville five nights a week.
Would love to hear more, post more about this
Yes, tell us the chum1 bildungsroman.
2013ish: had one share of Krispy Kreme for the hell of it (and then later completely forgot about it and lost track of it)
2016ish-2018ish: experimented with buying stocks here and there just to see what would happen:
I picked up a little of this stock like a year ago in an attempt to buy low. Here's what it's done since. :lol:
EGLTQ
EGALET CORP -97.87%
2018ish-2019ish: read Flash Boys, was completely fascinated; read lots more on quants, hft, algo trading
2020: tested and developed quant like trading strategy using historical market data
Late 2020-present: testing strategy with live data, real money; have dozens of open orders at basically any given time
Post by: star seed 7 on February 19, 2021, 03:41:09 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on February 19, 2021, 04:10:13 PM
Go on.....most quants got owned by the flash crash and rebound, did you do ok?My own journey for the duration of this thread has basically gone from 13 year-old trying a sip of champagne at one summer wedding to upperclassman regularly hitting Aggieville five nights a week.
Would love to hear more, post more about this
Yes, tell us the chum1 bildungsroman.
2013ish: had one share of Krispy Kreme for the hell of it (and then later completely forgot about it and lost track of it)
2016ish-2018ish: experimented with buying stocks here and there just to see what would happen:I picked up a little of this stock like a year ago in an attempt to buy low. Here's what it's done since. :lol:
EGLTQ
EGALET CORP -97.87%
2018ish-2019ish: read Flash Boys, was completely fascinated; read lots more on quants, hft, algo trading
2020: tested and developed quant like trading strategy using historical market data
Late 2020-present: testing strategy with live data, real money; have dozens of open orders at basically any given time
Post by: chum1 on February 19, 2021, 04:56:50 PM
Go on.....most quants got owned by the flash crash and rebound, did you do ok?
Did I test data from 2010? No, free market data doesn't go back that far.
I'm not sure about the getting owned characterization. I know there are lots of misrepresentations out there.
Post by: Kat Kid on February 19, 2021, 05:22:46 PM
https://open.spotify.com/episode/4Ahn9mQBV6BiuVrR91YVeU?si=ReMojrdtTZCUytwxbEpuLwGo on.....most quants got owned by the flash crash and rebound, did you do ok?
Did I test data from 2010? No, free market data doesn't go back that far.
I'm not sure about the getting owned characterization. I know there are lots of misrepresentations out there.
Basing on this and a lot of the momentum signals getting messed up by the volatility in March.
Post by: chum1 on February 19, 2021, 05:45:54 PM
Like, the goal would be to have a strategy that is basically crash proof. Plenty of them have been very successful at this in the past. I'm pretty sure Jim Simons did just fine in 2020.
Post by: ben ji on February 19, 2021, 11:13:49 PM
The good
I bought some Google stock in 2015ish for like 500 a share, sold a couple but still have 5. It's like 2k a share now and it's all profit from here!
Bought some tweeter stock for like $17 a couple years ago, currently around $70.
My company switched to salesforce a couple of years ago and everything tied into that so I bought like 7 shares...it's doubled since then.
The bad
Bought some under armour stock and it lost like 75% of it's value, got back to 50% down and I sold it a couple of years ago.
Lost my ass on some monsanto stock until bayer bought them and I broke even after like 3 years.
Countless individual oil stocks. The only thing I have left is an oil ETF that is just about back to even after some timely buys at some lows this summer. Unfortunately my base position was from like 2016.
Post by: ben ji on February 19, 2021, 11:19:04 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 19, 2021, 11:22:02 PM
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Post by: chum1 on February 19, 2021, 11:34:35 PM
https://open.spotify.com/episode/4Ahn9mQBV6BiuVrR91YVeU?si=ReMojrdtTZCUytwxbEpuLw
Basing on this and a lot of the momentum signals getting messed up by the volatility in March.
I listened to a good chunk. It's news to me. There are all sorts of quant like strategies, though. I don't think it's accurate to say they all sucked in 2020.
I suppose everyone wants to bill themselves as a quant these days. But that guest struck me as more of a traditional mutual fund manager and perhaps not the best authority on the subject.
Post by: Kat Kid on February 20, 2021, 06:50:56 AM
Yeah I think the biggest thing I learned about was how rules based strategies confront a unique situation. I’m sure that affects lots of quants and non quants but quants are obviously all rule based so if they are an ETF they have to update their docs and submit a new prospectus, I guess it probably wouldn’t probably affect like Renaissance the same way.https://open.spotify.com/episode/4Ahn9mQBV6BiuVrR91YVeU?si=ReMojrdtTZCUytwxbEpuLw
Basing on this and a lot of the momentum signals getting messed up by the volatility in March.
I listened to a good chunk. It's news to me. There are all sorts of quant like strategies, though. I don't think it's accurate to say they all sucked in 2020.
I suppose everyone wants to bill themselves as a quant these days. But that guest struck me as more of a traditional mutual fund manager and perhaps not the best authority on the subject.
Post by: steve dave on February 20, 2021, 08:08:10 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on February 20, 2021, 09:38:46 AM
I was listening to something the other day speculating on how all the momentum quants were going to get crushed by all the GME, AMC, etc. stuff because they could have rules to chase it up without accounting for the inevitable immediate crash.Yes and sometimes if it uses a moving average or something as a screener it can get owned by the big moves as it lags the market and buys high and sells low.
Post by: DaBigTrain on February 20, 2021, 09:42:39 AM
Post by: catastrophe on February 20, 2021, 10:27:17 AM
Post by: DaBigTrain on February 23, 2021, 09:03:11 AM
Post by: ben ji on February 23, 2021, 10:37:37 AM
PBS Frontline show about the stock market in 1997
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1kn95761wg&ab_channel=MarindaGrisham
Post by: steve dave on February 23, 2021, 03:11:48 PM
https://twitter.com/litcapital/status/1364228771830763527
Post by: DaBigTrain on February 23, 2021, 03:13:51 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on February 23, 2021, 03:31:16 PM
Post by: Catchacold on February 23, 2021, 03:40:59 PM
Everything that is new is old..Loved the segment around 22 minutes in when they talked about people on the motley fool message board pumping up a iomega. It was like the exact same comments regarding GME.
PBS Frontline show about the stock market in 1997
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1kn95761wg&ab_channel=MarindaGrisham
lol. I worked for one of the tech dotcom-ish companies mentioned :cyclist:
Post by: sys on February 23, 2021, 04:25:28 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on February 24, 2021, 02:33:32 PM
Post by: sys on February 24, 2021, 04:59:12 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 24, 2021, 05:02:23 PM
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Post by: Kat Kid on February 24, 2021, 05:08:17 PM
kick their asses, tbills.Sorry bear boy, your bad attitude got kicked to the curb.
Post by: michigancat on February 24, 2021, 05:37:27 PM
https://twitter.com/MattBrownEP/status/1364719459513094147
Post by: CHONGS on February 24, 2021, 06:15:17 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on February 24, 2021, 06:17:05 PM
do we have any topshot investors here?https://open.spotify.com/episode/7htO0aIPjaN5d1OhVNrdxo?si=A4nPE7fxR0SCN1Gx90nu3w
https://twitter.com/MattBrownEP/status/1364719459513094147
Post by: sys on February 24, 2021, 06:53:41 PM
Sorry bear boy, your bad attitude got kicked to the curb.
my bulls have been running nonstop since 11/4.
Post by: wetwillie on February 24, 2021, 07:06:17 PM
No, but non fungible tokens are here to stay. There's a lot of money to be had there.
Pls tell me everything you know about NFT’s
Post by: Kat Kid on February 24, 2021, 07:18:23 PM
At least since June, if not April. Get used to it.Sorry bear boy, your bad attitude got kicked to the curb.
my bulls have been running nonstop since 11/4.
Post by: steve dave on February 24, 2021, 07:19:18 PM
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Post by: sys on February 24, 2021, 07:23:34 PM
At least since June, if not April. Get used to it.
i don't understand the reference.
Post by: CHONGS on February 24, 2021, 07:48:06 PM
That's a long story, but here is good article imoNo, but non fungible tokens are here to stay. There's a lot of money to be had there.
Pls tell me everything you know about NFT’s
https://medium.com/ipg-media-lab/the-rise-of-nfts-and-what-it-means-for-marketers-628efc68c90
Post by: CHONGS on February 24, 2021, 07:51:54 PM
If you can understand the value involved in collecting/owning memorabilia etc you can grok NFTs.
Post by: wetwillie on February 24, 2021, 07:55:06 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on February 24, 2021, 07:55:25 PM
Post by: CHONGS on February 24, 2021, 08:01:15 PM
Who are your favorite NFT creators?Not sure I have one.
Post by: Pete on February 24, 2021, 09:01:42 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on February 24, 2021, 09:42:15 PM
Jesus. We really are going to recreate the roaring speculating 20’s and the subsequent unfortunate 30’s, aren’t we.
yeah, might even have a dust bowl while we're at it.
https://www.npr.org/2021/02/24/967376880/new-evidence-shows-fertile-soil-gone-from-midwestern-farms (https://www.npr.org/2021/02/24/967376880/new-evidence-shows-fertile-soil-gone-from-midwestern-farms)
but in the meantime, :fistpump: :cheese:
Post by: steve dave on February 24, 2021, 10:23:48 PM
Also, I mean, probably. Bear tingles are numbing my entire body.
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Post by: DaBigTrain on February 24, 2021, 10:33:37 PM
Post by: sys on February 24, 2021, 10:34:17 PM
Bear tingles are numbing my entire body.
one of these digital collectibles, i assume.
Post by: DaBigTrain on February 25, 2021, 08:12:12 AM
Post by: steve dave on February 25, 2021, 08:13:27 AM
Probably a safer investment then where I’m at for the most part tbhBear tingles are numbing my entire body.
one of these digital collectibles, i assume.
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Post by: cfbandyman on February 25, 2021, 08:20:13 AM
Jesus. We really are going to recreate the roaring speculating 20’s and the subsequent unfortunate 30’s, aren’t we.
yeah, might even have a dust bowl while we're at it.
https://www.npr.org/2021/02/24/967376880/new-evidence-shows-fertile-soil-gone-from-midwestern-farms (https://www.npr.org/2021/02/24/967376880/new-evidence-shows-fertile-soil-gone-from-midwestern-farms)
but in the meantime, :fistpump: :cheese:
Unless we decide to go back to pre 1930's farming techniques and remove all the hedgerows and whatnot, I doubt we'll ever see it to the dust bowl levels again.
Post by: DaBigTrain on February 25, 2021, 09:07:01 AM
LFG!!!!
Post by: IPA4Me on February 25, 2021, 09:48:21 AM
Post by: KITNfury on February 25, 2021, 10:21:51 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on February 25, 2021, 11:02:28 AM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 25, 2021, 11:50:35 AM
https://twitter.com/MyBookieBet/status/1364912730940067843
I enjoyed this
Post by: steve dave on February 25, 2021, 12:16:01 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210225/6909c4c9699652ec2c7ec14ebba9f650.jpg)
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Post by: chum1 on February 25, 2021, 03:04:12 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 25, 2021, 03:18:33 PM
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Post by: Kat Kid on February 25, 2021, 03:23:11 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on February 25, 2021, 03:26:10 PM
Post by: sys on February 25, 2021, 05:00:04 PM
I hope you're happy sys
the curve on today's yields makes everyone happy.
Post by: ben ji on February 25, 2021, 07:55:09 PM
Post by: chum1 on February 25, 2021, 08:14:43 PM
(https://theglasshammer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/undervalued-at-work-2e.jpg)
Post by: sys on February 25, 2021, 08:24:14 PM
Explain the impact of the increase treasury yield to me. Is that like increasing the interest rate? Less brrrttt?
two main impacts on equities.
1. implies expectations of higher inflation, which would cause future earnings to be worth less.
2. bonds deliver higher yields, better competing for money that might otherwise go into equities.
Post by: DaBigTrain on February 25, 2021, 08:25:08 PM
Post by: sys on February 25, 2021, 08:30:56 PM
Post by: steve dave on February 25, 2021, 08:37:53 PM
Long and only a part I know about a lot: the S&P has a yield of like 1.48%. big money holders who need that yield put it wherever it's safest and biggest. like insurance carriers don't normally try to make giant money off you paying your insurance and them paying you back less than that amount. they try to make a little bit there after expenses but not a ton because they wouldn't be able to sell insurance. they basically plan for that to equal out and them to have yield on the money of yours they hold. and banks hold a ton of money. checking accounts, savings accounts, CDs, any number of other things. they want that yield too because they make money on that. these giant holders aren't buying PLTR and ARK funds and crap. they need essentially guaranteed returns. when treasuries cross over what the S&P is returning that now is a huge incentive to take that safe money v. the roller coaster ride the S&P has been.
inflation is a reason treasuries would rise but has less to do with equities falling. the equity market is arguably a good place to be in a high inflation environment.
Post by: steve dave on February 25, 2021, 08:41:36 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on February 26, 2021, 11:34:04 AM
All in all I lost about $200 and sticking to my super save Bitcoin investments now.
Post by: chum1 on March 02, 2021, 10:56:41 AM
https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1366757688542191619
Post by: catastrophe on March 02, 2021, 11:36:45 AM
Post by: Fedor on March 02, 2021, 01:04:44 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on March 02, 2021, 01:07:35 PM
Post by: ChiComCat on March 02, 2021, 02:12:21 PM
Is buying a vacation home in the mountains a good investment? Asking for a friend.
I'm likely going to pull the trigger on this soon. My wife and I plan to rent out all winter and go and hang with friends/work from home there in the summer which is our ideal mountain season anyways.
It would probably take a lot of mountain trips to be worth it without rental income.
Post by: steve dave on March 02, 2021, 02:21:20 PM
Is buying a vacation home in the mountains a good investment? Asking for a friend.Buy the top of the market is what katkid always tells me. So go for it!
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Post by: Fedor on March 02, 2021, 02:29:43 PM
I'm loading up on debt as an inflation hedge, at least that is what I am telling myself.Is buying a vacation home in the mountains a good investment? Asking for a friend.Buy the top of the market is what katkid always tells me. So go for it!
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Post by: steve dave on March 02, 2021, 02:37:44 PM
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Post by: catastrophe on March 02, 2021, 02:44:24 PM
I always feel dumb when I have a desire/idea this unoriginal but yes I am in the same boat. Rent it during ski season at hopefully enough to cover expenses (but if not, nbd). Use it as a summer home and maybe one week for skiing.Is buying a vacation home in the mountains a good investment? Asking for a friend.
I'm likely going to pull the trigger on this soon. My wife and I plan to rent out all winter and go and hang with friends/work from home there in the summer which is our ideal mountain season anyways.
It would probably take a lot of mountain trips to be worth it without rental income.
I’m sure it’s a terrible bang for your buck, but it sounds fun AF, which needs to be part of the equation for any investment imho.
Post by: Spracne on March 02, 2021, 02:46:43 PM
I always feel dumb when I have a desire/idea this unoriginal but yes I am in the same boat. Rent it during ski season at hopefully enough to cover expenses (but if not, nbd). Use it as a summer home and maybe one week for skiing.Is buying a vacation home in the mountains a good investment? Asking for a friend.
I'm likely going to pull the trigger on this soon. My wife and I plan to rent out all winter and go and hang with friends/work from home there in the summer which is our ideal mountain season anyways.
It would probably take a lot of mountain trips to be worth it without rental income.
I’m sure it’s a terrible bang for your buck, but it sounds fun AF, which needs to be part of the equation for any investment imho.
As an unbiased observer, I think you should ABSOLUTELY do this. Please report back.
Post by: catastrophe on March 02, 2021, 02:55:40 PM
Post by: Spracne on March 02, 2021, 02:56:52 PM
Will report back in 3-5 years :thumbs:
No. Do it today or tomorrow, please.
Post by: ChiComCat on March 02, 2021, 03:03:52 PM
I always feel dumb when I have a desire/idea this unoriginal but yes I am in the same boat. Rent it during ski season at hopefully enough to cover expenses (but if not, nbd). Use it as a summer home and maybe one week for skiing.Is buying a vacation home in the mountains a good investment? Asking for a friend.
I'm likely going to pull the trigger on this soon. My wife and I plan to rent out all winter and go and hang with friends/work from home there in the summer which is our ideal mountain season anyways.
It would probably take a lot of mountain trips to be worth it without rental income.
I’m sure it’s a terrible bang for your buck, but it sounds fun AF, which needs to be part of the equation for any investment imho.
There is money to be made doing this in the right markets. The biggest problem keeping some people from being profitable is that they try to use it every long weekend/holiday and miss out on peak rental times or constantly hook people up instead of getting revenue-producing guests. Property management companies can charge 40% of revenue which can kill profit but it's easy enough to do without them nowadays with technology upgrades. A free account at Airdna.co has some rough estimates for income to familiarize yourself with a market.
I have a friend who is doing pretty well in Pigeon Forge with one and we might partner at some point with multiple properties. I like the mountains because we could get more reliable year-round cash flow between there and summer markets.
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 02, 2021, 03:05:26 PM
Post by: KITNfury on March 02, 2021, 03:29:53 PM
There a real estate investing thread you guys! :shakesfist:I always feel dumb when I have a desire/idea this unoriginal but yes I am in the same boat. Rent it during ski season at hopefully enough to cover expenses (but if not, nbd). Use it as a summer home and maybe one week for skiing.Is buying a vacation home in the mountains a good investment? Asking for a friend.
I'm likely going to pull the trigger on this soon. My wife and I plan to rent out all winter and go and hang with friends/work from home there in the summer which is our ideal mountain season anyways.
It would probably take a lot of mountain trips to be worth it without rental income.
I’m sure it’s a terrible bang for your buck, but it sounds fun AF, which needs to be part of the equation for any investment imho.
There is money to be made doing this in the right markets. The biggest problem keeping some people from being profitable is that they try to use it every long weekend/holiday and miss out on peak rental times or constantly hook people up instead of getting revenue-producing guests. Property management companies can charge 40% of revenue which can kill profit but it's easy enough to do without them nowadays with technology upgrades. A free account at Airdna.co has some rough estimates for income to familiarize yourself with a market.
I have a friend who is doing pretty well in Pigeon Forge with one and we might partner at some point with multiple properties. I like the mountains because we could get more reliable year-round cash flow between there and summer markets.
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 03, 2021, 09:45:13 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on March 03, 2021, 10:12:23 PM
Should I buy $PLTR first thing tomorrow morning?
yes
Post by: Spracne on March 03, 2021, 10:13:59 PM
Should I buy $PLTR first thing tomorrow morning?
yes
^^fiduciary advice, folks.
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 03, 2021, 10:44:04 PM
Post by: michigancat on March 03, 2021, 11:38:05 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 04, 2021, 07:46:24 AM
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Post by: wetwillie on March 04, 2021, 08:30:14 AM
Post by: chum1 on March 04, 2021, 08:48:30 AM
Who's buying this in two days?
https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1366757688542191619
I did it. Lol.
Post by: catastrophe on March 04, 2021, 09:11:28 AM
Post by: ben ji on March 04, 2021, 09:25:33 AM
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on March 04, 2021, 10:37:05 AM
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 04, 2021, 11:01:32 AM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on March 04, 2021, 11:45:30 AM
Is buying a vacation home in the mountains a good investment? Asking for a friend.
It should be good investment as long as you use it/put it on AirBnB.
Post by: chum1 on March 04, 2021, 12:38:00 PM
Go on.....most quants got owned by the flash crash and rebound, did you do ok?
I've gotten hammered in the past three weeks. Nearly as much as ARKK. Disappointing result.
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 04, 2021, 12:45:19 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 04, 2021, 12:45:58 PM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on March 04, 2021, 02:10:34 PM
The best investing advice I can give anyone is not to go all in on Cathie Woods funds like a month ago. Whoever the giant dumbass is that did this to my money is in big trouble. BIGTIME trouble.
haaa, I bought a bit the other day, so this is prob my fault.
On another note, I road the Wall Street bets ride a bit today with SKT (Tanger Outlets) . They ran it up 20% this morning but let it crash back down. I bought it last year to hold for a bit just before Covid so it was a terrific time to buy a brick and mortar retailer :Yuck:. Should have bailed this morning, but I had dreams of them GMEing it further. :frown:
Post by: steve dave on March 05, 2021, 07:44:06 AM
:sdeek:
Post by: steve dave on March 05, 2021, 10:33:25 AM
Post by: chum1 on March 05, 2021, 11:17:06 AM
Post by: star seed 7 on March 05, 2021, 11:31:30 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on March 05, 2021, 11:32:19 AM
I am now a sys protege.
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 05, 2021, 11:37:32 AM
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/pQa4kpEw1XeBq/giphy.gif)
Post by: sys on March 05, 2021, 09:01:59 PM
I actually like it when stocks go down. It is good.
I am now a sys protege.
it's actually good when they go down and it feels good when they go up. very good emotional hedge.
Post by: Kat Kid on March 06, 2021, 01:59:35 AM
You are wise.I actually like it when stocks go down. It is good.
I am now a sys protege.
it's actually good when they go down and it feels good when they go up. very good emotional hedge.
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 06, 2021, 10:56:15 AM
The best investing advice I can give anyone is not to go all in on Cathie Woods funds like a month ago. Whoever the giant dumbass is that did this to my money is in big trouble. BIGTIME trouble.https://twitter.com/fundstrat/status/1368241953834471432
Post by: kim carnes on March 08, 2021, 05:33:01 PM
Post by: kim carnes on March 08, 2021, 05:35:25 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 08, 2021, 05:42:28 PM
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Post by: chum1 on March 10, 2021, 07:17:59 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on March 10, 2021, 07:58:29 AM
Post by: chum1 on March 10, 2021, 10:50:43 AM
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 10, 2021, 11:19:26 AM
I wish I could have had
Post by: chum1 on March 10, 2021, 11:48:37 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on March 10, 2021, 01:08:45 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 11, 2021, 02:16:37 PM
Post by: Purple Derpathy on March 11, 2021, 02:41:49 PM
Stimulus checks going to start hitting bank accounts this weekend. Time to load up on$GME and $AMCBTC before the next wave :Chirp:
Post by: catastrophe on March 16, 2021, 02:58:28 PM
Vanguard says the expense ratio on this beast is .75%Who's buying this in two days?
https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1366757688542191619
I did it. Lol.
For context, Vanguard’s total stock market and S&P500 ETFs are .03%
Post by: Kat Kid on March 16, 2021, 03:00:06 PM
Post by: chum1 on March 16, 2021, 03:15:43 PM
:kstategrad:
Post by: steve dave on March 17, 2021, 07:32:36 AM
:sdeek:
SAVE US JEROME!
Post by: steve dave on March 17, 2021, 07:54:03 AM
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Post by: KITNfury on March 17, 2021, 08:25:53 AM
Post by: catastrophe on March 17, 2021, 09:02:06 AM
Post by: KITNfury on March 17, 2021, 09:14:12 AM
As far as I can tell, it means people are speculating (or insider trading) that the fed will finally either raise or officially plan to raise interest rates.OK. I spoke with a real estate lender who said it's official Fannie Freddie will be raising rates. I don't believe the fed rates are directly tied though.
I am surprised that's what they (the Fed) would want to do though.
Post by: steve dave on March 17, 2021, 01:09:58 PM
SAVE US JEROME!
:D
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210317/36685843acad1c9c2be2e84783b6c164.jpg)
Post by: chum1 on March 17, 2021, 04:06:47 PM
I was told that Biden would be turning down the volatility dial.
So far, we've had greater than average daily volatility for 47% of the days Biden has been president. 31% for Trump.
Post by: steve dave on March 17, 2021, 06:27:01 PM
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Post by: steve dave on March 18, 2021, 07:59:29 AM
(https://i.imgflip.com/5272sb.jpg)
Post by: steve dave on March 18, 2021, 08:01:00 AM
Post by: chum1 on March 18, 2021, 08:12:49 AM
Post by: steve dave on March 18, 2021, 08:16:16 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on March 18, 2021, 08:24:41 AM
Post by: steve dave on March 18, 2021, 08:25:48 AM
Steve Dave what good meme usage !
wow, thank you for this unexpected but extremely warranted praise.
Post by: Fedor on March 18, 2021, 08:27:36 AM
This response is as good as the meme, which was really great.Steve Dave what good meme usage !
wow, thank you for this unexpected but extremely warranted praise.
Post by: steve dave on March 18, 2021, 08:30:08 AM
This response is as good as the meme, which was really great.Steve Dave what good meme usage !
wow, thank you for this unexpected but extremely warranted praise.
thank you, I'm blushing right now, because of how good the meme was.
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on March 18, 2021, 08:36:11 AM
Post by: steve dave on March 18, 2021, 08:37:40 AM
SD as one of the world's leading experts on meme usage, I have to say this is probably the best i've ever seen.
that's fair criticism
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on March 18, 2021, 08:57:19 AM
The last couple years Mrs BAC said we should put money into IRAs and then immediately roll them over into Roth IRAs. Is that stupid or a good idea? We just used vanguard. As we were working on our taxes the other day we were realizing we have to pay out the ass for those things
Post by: steve dave on March 18, 2021, 09:22:07 AM
hey everyone shut up about SDs memes real quick i have a serious question:
The last couple years Mrs BAC said we should put money into IRAs and then immediately roll them over into Roth IRAs. Is that stupid or a good idea? We just used vanguard. As we were working on our taxes the other day we were realizing we have to pay out the ass for those things
explain the "pay out the ass" part. you shouldn't have any additional taxes from rolling it as the IRA is already after tax
Post by: catastrophe on March 18, 2021, 09:22:29 AM
hey everyone shut up about SDs memes real quick i have a serious question:Three points here:
The last couple years Mrs BAC said we should put money into IRAs and then immediately roll them over into Roth IRAs. Is that stupid or a good idea? We just used vanguard. As we were working on our taxes the other day we were realizing we have to pay out the ass for those things
(1) Roth IRAs are awesome. If you got cash to invest in anything (other than maybe a pre-tax HSA), do this first.
(2) You’re talking about a back door Roth, which is the best you can do if you make too much to either contribute to a Roth directly or make tax deductible contributions to a traditional IRA. I’m assuming you’re talking about making post-tax (and non-tax deductible) contributions to an IRA both because :kstategrad: and because otherwise there’s no reason to go the back door route
(3) DO IT. But be careful how you report the transaction on stuff like turbo tax if you do your own taxes. You should only be taxed on the GAINS in investment between when you contributed to the IRA and converted to Roth. Stuff like TurboTax might assume your original IRA contributions were pre-tax and will think the ENTIRE amount of the conversion should be taxed. (The reason is because places like vanguard don’t opine as to what part of the conversion is taxable when they submit the form for taxes, so it’s on you to make clear the nature of the conversion)
Post by: Kat Kid on March 18, 2021, 09:27:21 AM
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on March 18, 2021, 09:29:42 AM
hey everyone shut up about SDs memes real quick i have a serious question:Three points here:
The last couple years Mrs BAC said we should put money into IRAs and then immediately roll them over into Roth IRAs. Is that stupid or a good idea? We just used vanguard. As we were working on our taxes the other day we were realizing we have to pay out the ass for those things
(1) Roth IRAs are awesome. If you got cash to invest in anything (other than maybe a pre-tax HSA), do this first.
(2) You’re talking about a back door Roth, which is the best you can do if you make too much to either contribute to a Roth directly or make tax deductible contributions to a traditional IRA. I’m assuming you’re talking about making post-tax (and non-tax deductible) contributions to an IRA both because :kstategrad: and because otherwise there’s no reason to go the back door route
(3) DO IT. But be careful how you report the transaction on stuff like turbo tax if you do your own taxes. You should only be taxed on the GAINS in investment between when you contributed to the IRA and converted to Roth. Stuff like TurboTax might assume your original IRA contributions were pre-tax and will think the ENTIRE amount of the conversion should be taxed. (The reason is because places like vanguard don’t opine as to what part of the conversion is taxable when they submit the form for taxes, so it’s on you to make clear the nature of the conversion)
re: 2) yes, we make too much to directly contribute to Roth IRA so we have to do the backdoor.
3) okay see that's what i thought...the money we put into those IRAs was post-tax so it seemed strange to me that we would get taxed again on it. And we immediately converted them from IRA to Roth IRA so there were no gains to be taxed between the conversion. I think maybe turbo tax is thinking some or all of this money was pre tax but it was all after tax money.
To SDs question: when we input the 1099-R (or whatever its called) into TurboTax the amount of taxes we owed jumped up like $6K and i'm like holy crap why on earth would anyone do this?
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on March 18, 2021, 09:50:46 AM
Post by: steve dave on March 18, 2021, 10:08:51 AM
hey everyone shut up about SDs memes real quick i have a serious question:Three points here:
The last couple years Mrs BAC said we should put money into IRAs and then immediately roll them over into Roth IRAs. Is that stupid or a good idea? We just used vanguard. As we were working on our taxes the other day we were realizing we have to pay out the ass for those things
(1) Roth IRAs are awesome. If you got cash to invest in anything (other than maybe a pre-tax HSA), do this first.
(2) You’re talking about a back door Roth, which is the best you can do if you make too much to either contribute to a Roth directly or make tax deductible contributions to a traditional IRA. I’m assuming you’re talking about making post-tax (and non-tax deductible) contributions to an IRA both because :kstategrad: and because otherwise there’s no reason to go the back door route
(3) DO IT. But be careful how you report the transaction on stuff like turbo tax if you do your own taxes. You should only be taxed on the GAINS in investment between when you contributed to the IRA and converted to Roth. Stuff like TurboTax might assume your original IRA contributions were pre-tax and will think the ENTIRE amount of the conversion should be taxed. (The reason is because places like vanguard don’t opine as to what part of the conversion is taxable when they submit the form for taxes, so it’s on you to make clear the nature of the conversion)
re: 2) yes, we make too much to directly contribute to Roth IRA so we have to do the backdoor.
3) okay see that's what i thought...the money we put into those IRAs was post-tax so it seemed strange to me that we would get taxed again on it. And we immediately converted them from IRA to Roth IRA so there were no gains to be taxed between the conversion. I think maybe turbo tax is thinking some or all of this money was pre tax but it was all after tax money.
To SDs question: when we input the 1099-R (or whatever its called) into TurboTax the amount of taxes we owed jumped up like $6K and i'm like holy crap why on earth would anyone do this?
I believe Turbo Tax is double dipping you on that thing. Not 100% certain but you should have already paid those taxes unless you made an absolute truckload of money on it prior to rolling it.
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on March 18, 2021, 10:41:59 AM
Post by: catastrophe on March 18, 2021, 11:04:58 AM
This year when I used TurboTax, it characterized the full conversion as income UNTIL I filled out the “deductions” part where I specified that I wasn’t deducing any of my IRA contributions.
Post by: steve dave on March 18, 2021, 11:27:27 AM
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Post by: chum1 on March 18, 2021, 11:36:46 AM
Post by: steve dave on March 18, 2021, 12:11:25 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on March 18, 2021, 12:15:20 PM
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on March 18, 2021, 12:46:50 PM
Post by: sys on March 19, 2021, 06:10:56 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 19, 2021, 06:40:36 PM
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Post by: steve dave on March 19, 2021, 07:31:58 PM
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Post by: steve dave on March 19, 2021, 07:32:17 PM
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Post by: ben ji on March 19, 2021, 08:16:33 PM
Started out contributing a couple hundred a month then was eventually able to max it out. It adds up.
Post by: steve dave on March 19, 2021, 08:32:02 PM
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Post by: ben ji on March 20, 2021, 07:18:53 PM
Incredible work Ben Ji. Especially (no offense, only respect) given what you were exposed to with money moves growing up. KK has a great IRA story.
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My dad did teach me about how important it is to invest/compounding interest etc so it wasn't that hard to switch from YOLO Penny stocks to index funds.
My favorite YOLO penny stock he pumped back in the day was Queer TV which was surprising coming from his MAGA ass. Supposedly it was going to be a cable TV channel focused on gay people or something, all I know is I gave him $100 to invest in it and it went poof.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_Television_Network
Post by: steve dave on March 20, 2021, 08:55:53 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 22, 2021, 09:08:44 AM
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/8ymvg6pl1Lzy0/giphy.gif)
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 22, 2021, 10:22:50 AM
Do I sell some BTC and buy an assload of Crowdstrike here?Welp pulled the trigger and feel great about it
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/8ymvg6pl1Lzy0/giphy.gif)
Post by: tdaver on March 22, 2021, 10:37:01 AM
Incredible work Ben Ji. Especially (no offense, only respect) given what you were exposed to with money moves growing up. KK has a great IRA story.
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Post the story, KK!
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 24, 2021, 03:22:38 PM
Post by: chum1 on March 24, 2021, 03:26:24 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on March 24, 2021, 07:07:26 PM
My story is basically that my dad made me start a Roth IRA when I had my first W-2 when I was 16, then made me contribute to it when I was working in college, then got super mad when I lost some money that was supposed to go in there on PartyPoker, but overall I learned the right lesson and now have an amount I am very happy with in there.Incredible work Ben Ji. Especially (no offense, only respect) given what you were exposed to with money moves growing up. KK has a great IRA story.
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Post the story, KK!
Post by: sys on March 24, 2021, 07:17:33 PM
put all of their wages into a roth ira.
Post by: catastrophe on March 24, 2021, 07:24:48 PM
katkid (and any other parents), hire your children now for $5500/year or whatever the roth ira contribution limit is. to clean their rooms or whatever.I’ve heard of this but am hazy on the specifics. First, I’m sure there’s an age limit. I’m also wondering if you have to pay state and federal unemployment on the “wages.” Also probably effs up eligibility for college aid or Medicare type expenses if they got a lot of those.
put all of their wages into a roth ira.
Post by: Kat Kid on March 24, 2021, 07:26:44 PM
katkid (and any other parents), hire your children now for $5500/year or whatever the roth ira contribution limit is. to clean their rooms or whatever.I don’t even think they let farmers and small biz owners get away with those shenanigans without showing their work on paystubs and paying payroll taxes.
put all of their wages into a roth ira.
Post by: michigancat on March 24, 2021, 07:45:01 PM
katkid (and any other parents), hire your children now for $5500/year or whatever the roth ira contribution limit is. to clean their rooms or whatever.I don’t even think they let farmers and small biz owners get away with those shenanigans without showing their work on paystubs and paying payroll taxes.
put all of their wages into a roth ira.
I know when I worked on farm I was always paid in commodities which I had to immediately sell. May have been illegal, who knows!
Post by: IPA4Me on March 24, 2021, 07:45:47 PM
Post by: sys on March 24, 2021, 08:13:19 PM
Post by: sys on March 24, 2021, 08:20:55 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 24, 2021, 08:22:15 PM
katkid (and any other parents), hire your children now for $5500/year or whatever the roth ira contribution limit is. to clean their rooms or whatever.I don’t even think they let farmers and small biz owners get away with those shenanigans without showing their work on paystubs and paying payroll taxes.
put all of their wages into a roth ira.
I know when I worked on farm I was always paid in commodities which I had to immediately sell. May have been illegal, who knows!
my parents gift my children large sums in crop. I had a dang pay stub from a very young age (child labor tbh, very sad). farmers are absolutely BITB at suckling on the gov. teat and avoiding the gov. mouth.
Post by: catastrophe on March 24, 2021, 08:53:42 PM
sorry, report as self-employment income, not other compensation.I am an absolute sucker for tax schemes so I will definitely look into this further.
Post by: steve dave on March 24, 2021, 08:57:23 PM
A) run it by my CPA
B) lose my entire rough ridin' mind on my CPA for why I don't have a flush IRA
Post by: catastrophe on March 24, 2021, 11:07:15 PM
It seems like they have to get paid at market rates for whatever they’re doing, which makes sense. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/110713/benefits-starting-ira-your-child.aspsorry, report as self-employment income, not other compensation.I am an absolute sucker for tax schemes so I will definitely look into this further.
My kids don’t have crap for marketable skills yet but I will be on the lookout for sure.
Post by: ben ji on March 25, 2021, 10:08:23 AM
Too bad your a shitty marketing person and never get any gigs.
Post by: WillieWatanabe on March 28, 2021, 11:08:36 AM
Post by: michigancat on March 28, 2021, 11:16:41 AM
What would be the best type of account for starting a college fund for little ww? 529? or is there something better? tia
Absolutely a 529. Lots of states will give you a state tax deduction. If your state doesn't let you deduct you can set one up on Vanguard
https://www.learningquest.com/home/learn/benefits-features/tax-advantages.html
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on March 28, 2021, 01:03:49 PM
Post by: catastrophe on March 28, 2021, 01:08:17 PM
Just keep in mind many smart people say to worry about maxing your own retirement accounts first. Doesn’t do junior a lot of good to pay for college if he’s gotta support you later. Also retirement funds (I think) are less likely to count against him for financial aid. That said 529s are great for their purpose. I’ve already got some going for my 3.5 and 2 year olds.What would be the best type of account for starting a college fund for little ww? 529? or is there something better? tia
Absolutely a 529. Lots of states will give you a state tax deduction. If your state doesn't let you deduct you can set one up on Vanguard
https://www.learningquest.com/home/learn/benefits-features/tax-advantages.html
Post by: michigancat on March 28, 2021, 01:14:37 PM
Just keep in mind many smart people say to worry about maxing your own retirement accounts first. Doesn’t do junior a lot of good to pay for college if he’s gotta support you later. Also retirement funds (I think) are less likely to count against him for financial aid. That said 529s are great for their purpose. I’ve already got some going for my 3.5 and 2 year olds.What would be the best type of account for starting a college fund for little ww? 529? or is there something better? tia
Absolutely a 529. Lots of states will give you a state tax deduction. If your state doesn't let you deduct you can set one up on Vanguard
https://www.learningquest.com/home/learn/benefits-features/tax-advantages.html
Yep this is true. They can get cheap loans for college but you can't get cheap loans for retirement!
However you can put a little money in and do a lot of good like you said. 529 contributions are a great suggestion for gifts from family and probably better than the effort of something like a backdoor Roth once the 401k is maxed depending on age and situation.
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 28, 2021, 06:46:13 PM
What would be the best type of account for starting a college fund for little ww? 529? or is there something better? tiaBabies first Bitcoin is a thing I’ve done for friends.
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 28, 2021, 06:51:50 PM
https://opendime.comWhat would be the best type of account for starting a college fund for little ww? 529? or is there something better? tiaBabies first Bitcoin is a thing I’ve done for friends.
Post by: Institutional Control on March 29, 2021, 07:46:37 AM
Post by: steve dave on March 29, 2021, 07:50:20 AM
My wife and I were both sick yesterday from the vaccine. We both feel fine today but yesterday was similar to when we had Covid.Another terrifying jab side effect identified
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Post by: catastrophe on March 29, 2021, 08:08:42 AM
My wife and I were both sick yesterday from the vaccine. We both feel fine today but yesterday was similar to when we had Covid.Are you sure you’re feeling ok today, considering you posted this in the investing thread?
Post by: Institutional Control on March 29, 2021, 11:09:56 AM
My wife and I were both sick yesterday from the vaccine. We both feel fine today but yesterday was similar to when we had Covid.Are you sure you’re feeling ok today, considering you posted this in the investing thread?
LOL, not I'm not sure.
Post by: WillieWatanabe on March 30, 2021, 11:46:02 AM
Just keep in mind many smart people say to worry about maxing your own retirement accounts first. Doesn’t do junior a lot of good to pay for college if he’s gotta support you later. Also retirement funds (I think) are less likely to count against him for financial aid. That said 529s are great for their purpose. I’ve already got some going for my 3.5 and 2 year olds.What would be the best type of account for starting a college fund for little ww? 529? or is there something better? tia
Absolutely a 529. Lots of states will give you a state tax deduction. If your state doesn't let you deduct you can set one up on Vanguard
https://www.learningquest.com/home/learn/benefits-features/tax-advantages.html
Yep this is true. They can get cheap loans for college but you can't get cheap loans for retirement!
However you can put a little money in and do a lot of good like you said. 529 contributions are a great suggestion for gifts from family and probably better than the effort of something like a backdoor Roth once the 401k is maxed depending on age and situation.
thank you.
I wasn't quite sure the best company to go through to start one or if it really mattered.
Post by: catastrophe on March 30, 2021, 11:56:32 AM
Post by: steve dave on March 30, 2021, 12:30:13 PM
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Post by: WillieWatanabe on March 30, 2021, 12:34:00 PM
Looks like Kansas has an income deduction on the state tax return for contributions up to 6k.
Post by: 8manpick on March 30, 2021, 12:36:18 PM
He got the vaccine as an investment in himselfMy wife and I were both sick yesterday from the vaccine. We both feel fine today but yesterday was similar to when we had Covid.Are you sure you’re feeling ok today, considering you posted this in the investing thread?
LOL, not I'm not sure.
Post by: chum1 on March 31, 2021, 02:49:33 PM
4% variable apr (7% max) on the HELOC for ten years. Difference between that and the investment fund returns is a bunch of free money, right?
Post by: steve dave on March 31, 2021, 02:52:03 PM
What about putting HELOC money in an investment fund and then paying it off after ten years?
4% variable apr (7% max) on the HELOC for ten years. Difference between that and the investment fund returns is a bunch of free money, right?
the fact that you're not even considering going 3x leverage on that HELOC money tells me you aren't ready for this
Post by: steve dave on March 31, 2021, 02:53:47 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 31, 2021, 02:54:02 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 31, 2021, 03:02:48 PM
Post by: catastrophe on March 31, 2021, 03:09:36 PM
Post by: ben ji on March 31, 2021, 03:22:46 PM
What about putting HELOC money in an investment fund and then paying it off after ten years?
4% variable apr (7% max) on the HELOC for ten years. Difference between that and the investment fund returns is a bunch of free money, right?
What if your investment goes down in a couple of years and the bank wants to close your HELOC?
Post by: chum1 on March 31, 2021, 03:36:15 PM
What if your investment goes down in a couple of years and the bank wants to close your HELOC?
Then I will get rich by suing their asses off.
Post by: steve dave on March 31, 2021, 03:47:25 PM
I don't know enough about variable interest rates. I sort of assume it goes up to the max rate after about a year like a rough ridin' cable bill.The scheme IS the scheme. I like this.What if your investment goes down in a couple of years and the bank wants to close your HELOC?
Then I will get rich by suing their asses off.
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Post by: steve dave on March 31, 2021, 03:51:15 PM
https://twitter.com/fxhedgers/status/1377357145641918464
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Post by: sys on March 31, 2021, 09:37:28 PM
Post by: 'taterblast on April 01, 2021, 08:52:39 AM
Post by: michigancat on April 01, 2021, 09:23:35 AM
i just did my first "backdoor" Roth IRA transfer and it wow what a stupid thing, why don't they just open up Roth to everyone.Why have Roth's at all if you want to talk about things that don't make sense
Post by: catastrophe on April 01, 2021, 09:43:32 AM
i just did my first "backdoor" Roth IRA transfer and it wow what a stupid thing, why don't they just open up Roth to everyone.It is truly a ridiculous thing. My only explanation is that either: (1) it’s the IRS’s way of basically overriding Congress, or (2) yet another example of making things unnecessarily complex to give tax attorneys and CPAs something to do.
Post by: 'taterblast on April 01, 2021, 10:06:34 AM
i just did my first "backdoor" Roth IRA transfer and it wow what a stupid thing, why don't they just open up Roth to everyone.Why have Roth's at all if you want to talk about things that don't make sense
expand plz, curious what you mean here
Post by: steve dave on April 01, 2021, 10:19:12 AM
Post by: IPA4Me on April 01, 2021, 10:38:59 AM
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Post by: michigancat on April 01, 2021, 10:51:48 AM
i just did my first "backdoor" Roth IRA transfer and it wow what a stupid thing, why don't they just open up Roth to everyone.Why have Roth's at all if you want to talk about things that don't make sense
I don't follow, it's just betting on which direction is more tax advantageous based on current earnings/long term market expectations. I can also see why a gov't may want to push people towards give me the tax dollars now rather than later.
why should you have to gamble your retirement on possible tax advantageous scenarios. Like as a general principle.
I don't know how the math works out but there could be a shitload of revenue generated for social security if you eliminated tax-advantaged retirement funds altogether.
Post by: IPA4Me on April 01, 2021, 10:53:06 AM
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Post by: michigancat on April 01, 2021, 10:54:24 AM
Why TF would you want to eliminate tax advantaged retirement?
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I don't, I'm questioning why they were invented
Post by: steve dave on April 01, 2021, 10:57:19 AM
Roth seems good for young people. You're paying taxes in a lower bracket than you likely will in your 40s and 50s. Doesn't make much sense for me. Highly unlikely that I'll be in a higher tax bracket after retirement. My income will be 50-75% what it is now.Yeah, but the discussion isn’t over Roth v traditional. If you don’t qualify for a Roth or traditional tax advantaged ira you can still back door a Roth.
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Post by: IPA4Me on April 01, 2021, 10:58:34 AM
If I backdoor the Roth, don't I pay taxes at my current bracket on the money I rolled?Roth seems good for young people. You're paying taxes in a lower bracket than you likely will in your 40s and 50s. Doesn't make much sense for me. Highly unlikely that I'll be in a higher tax bracket after retirement. My income will be 50-75% what it is now.Yeah, but the discussion isn’t over Roth v traditional. If you don’t qualify for a Roth or traditional tax advantaged ira you can still back door a Roth.
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Post by: steve dave on April 01, 2021, 10:58:56 AM
Post by: 'taterblast on April 01, 2021, 11:13:43 AM
Post by: Justwin on April 01, 2021, 11:17:12 AM
i just did my first "backdoor" Roth IRA transfer and it wow what a stupid thing, why don't they just open up Roth to everyone.Why have Roth's at all if you want to talk about things that don't make sense
I don't follow, it's just betting on which direction is more tax advantageous based on current earnings/long term market expectations. I can also see why a gov't may want to push people towards give me the tax dollars now rather than later.
why should you have to gamble your retirement on possible tax advantageous scenarios. Like as a general principle.
I don't know how the math works out but there could be a shitload of revenue generated for social security if you eliminated tax-advantaged retirement funds altogether.
How are you gambling your retirement when tax-advantaged accounts only help your retirement?
Can you explain how eliminating tax-advantaged accounts would boost revenue for Social Security? You still pay FICA taxes on contributions made to tax-advantaged retirement accounts. The only taxes you avoid are individual income taxes.
Post by: IPA4Me on April 01, 2021, 11:35:40 AM
Thank you for bringing common sense back to this discussion.i just did my first "backdoor" Roth IRA transfer and it wow what a stupid thing, why don't they just open up Roth to everyone.Why have Roth's at all if you want to talk about things that don't make sense
I don't follow, it's just betting on which direction is more tax advantageous based on current earnings/long term market expectations. I can also see why a gov't may want to push people towards give me the tax dollars now rather than later.
why should you have to gamble your retirement on possible tax advantageous scenarios. Like as a general principle.
I don't know how the math works out but there could be a shitload of revenue generated for social security if you eliminated tax-advantaged retirement funds altogether.
How are you gambling your retirement when tax-advantaged accounts only help your retirement?
Can you explain how eliminating tax-advantaged accounts would boost revenue for Social Security? You still pay FICA taxes on contributions made to tax-advantaged retirement accounts. The only taxes you avoid are individual income taxes.
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Post by: Spracne on April 01, 2021, 11:37:03 AM
If I backdoor the Roth, don't I pay taxes at my current bracket on the money I rolled?Roth seems good for young people. You're paying taxes in a lower bracket than you likely will in your 40s and 50s. Doesn't make much sense for me. Highly unlikely that I'll be in a higher tax bracket after retirement. My income will be 50-75% what it is now.Yeah, but the discussion isn’t over Roth v traditional. If you don’t qualify for a Roth or traditional tax advantaged ira you can still back door a Roth.
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I believe you have to pay taxes on any untaxed profit at the time of conversion. But if you do it right, that should be almost nothing.
Post by: steve dave on April 01, 2021, 11:42:02 AM
Yes, should be zero. Deposit and immediately convert.If I backdoor the Roth, don't I pay taxes at my current bracket on the money I rolled?Roth seems good for young people. You're paying taxes in a lower bracket than you likely will in your 40s and 50s. Doesn't make much sense for me. Highly unlikely that I'll be in a higher tax bracket after retirement. My income will be 50-75% what it is now.Yeah, but the discussion isn’t over Roth v traditional. If you don’t qualify for a Roth or traditional tax advantaged ira you can still back door a Roth.
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I believe you have to pay taxes on any untaxed profit at the time of conversion. But if you do it right, that should be almost nothing.
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Post by: michigancat on April 01, 2021, 11:46:46 AM
How are you gambling your retirement when tax-advantaged accounts only help your retirement?
you are gambling on future tax rates and earnings when you choose between traditional and roth (not to mention putting your retirement in the stock market)
Can you explain how eliminating tax-advantaged accounts would boost revenue for Social Security? You still pay FICA taxes on contributions made to tax-advantaged retirement accounts. The only taxes you avoid are individual income taxes.
yeah you'd have to change how SS is funded, that's why I said it "could" and not "would"
Post by: ben ji on April 01, 2021, 11:51:07 AM
Post by: catastrophe on April 01, 2021, 12:05:38 PM
How are you gambling your retirement when tax-advantaged accounts only help your retirement?
you are gambling on future tax rates and earnings when you choose between traditional and roth (not to mention putting your retirement in the stock market)
Not gambling if you don’t meet the income threshold for a Roth. Almost by definition it means you cannot contribute to an IRA pre-tax.
And yes to Benji’s point, if you got a 20+ year retirement horizon, it’s practically a certainty you’ll come out ahead. And if you don’t, the rest of the country will be hurting in a big way and you’ll have other problems to worry about.
Post by: catastrophe on April 01, 2021, 12:07:52 PM
Post by: steve dave on April 01, 2021, 01:43:46 PM
Which, on that point, is actually how I finally got talked into buying bitcoin. Friend pitched it to me as a hedge against a shift away from traditional markets. I’m not banking on it for my retirement like I am ETFs, but it does feel nice to own a totally different valuable asset which (unlike real estate) also takes zero effort to take advantage of financially.
yeah, I've got a set amount I put into coin every month.
Post by: Fedor on April 01, 2021, 04:26:54 PM
also irl you'd have to pay cap gains on the profits and that on top of the interest on the HELOC means you'd have to have a damn sure insider trady thing to make it make sense. also PM me that thing so I can get rich with you.Those returns could be found on the efficient frontier without an undue amount of risk, is something that I feel like someone is smart about these things would say but I have no idea.
Post by: steve dave on April 01, 2021, 04:54:31 PM
Post by: catastrophe on April 01, 2021, 05:12:04 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on April 01, 2021, 05:18:23 PM
dumb question, what is the legality of un-Rothing a Roth like 30 years from now, as in law changes to allow taxation on my earnings?Would basically take a socialist Revolution, WHICH I WOULD WELCOME, but isn’t likely.
Post by: ben ji on April 01, 2021, 05:21:29 PM
dumb question, what is the legality of un-Rothing a Roth like 30 years from now, as in law changes to allow taxation on my earnings?
That is a possibility.... But in the highly unlikely situation where that were to happen I'm sure there would be some loophole for you to exploit in the 5 year window etc before it goes into effect.
Roth IRA's weren't even a thing 30 years ago, who knows what taxes/retirement accounts will look like in 30 years. Just keep throwing money in whatever is best right now and when that changes figure out what the new best thing is and shove all your money in that.
Post by: KITNfury on April 01, 2021, 06:19:58 PM
Right. I always figure the rich make the rules so do what they do. They will likely resist screwing themselves over.dumb question, what is the legality of un-Rothing a Roth like 30 years from now, as in law changes to allow taxation on my earnings?
That is a possibility.... But in the highly unlikely situation where that were to happen I'm sure there would be some loophole for you to exploit in the 5 year window etc before it goes into effect.
Roth IRA's weren't even a thing 30 years ago, who knows what taxes/retirement accounts will look like in 30 years. Just keep throwing money in whatever is best right now and when that changes figure out what the new best thing is and shove all your money in that.
Post by: catastrophe on April 01, 2021, 08:39:23 PM
Post by: steve dave on April 01, 2021, 08:46:33 PM
Post by: Spracne on April 01, 2021, 08:58:44 PM
I don't think the actual rich GAF about anyone backdoor'ing a roth. it's strictly the domain of the upper middle class/high earner non wealthy.
This reads autobiographically. stevedave, let's start a business and get actual wealthy.
Post by: ben ji on April 01, 2021, 08:59:37 PM
And that was back in 2012 when he was running for president.
Post by: Spracne on April 01, 2021, 09:00:10 PM
What skills can you bring to the table?
Post by: steve dave on April 01, 2021, 09:20:50 PM
I don't think the actual rich GAF about anyone backdoor'ing a roth. it's strictly the domain of the upper middle class/high earner non wealthy.
This reads autobiographically. stevedave, let's start a business and get actual wealthy.
yes. I've had it with having to hustle to make it. I shouldn't have to back door a roth. sick of this.
Post by: steve dave on April 01, 2021, 09:25:44 PM
I know some legal stuff and a bit about various kinds of industries. Also I have a catalog of about 15 original songs.
What skills can you bring to the table?
riff'ing online is obviously my A-1 thing. but also negotiating with terrible people and making them think they whipped my ass but irl we got what we came to get. that's my main work thing. actually mainly teaching and making other people do that now but I can still perform under pressure even if someone is watching if I need to.
Post by: steve dave on April 01, 2021, 09:29:30 PM
Post by: KITNfury on April 01, 2021, 09:42:57 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on April 02, 2021, 08:00:57 AM
actually, scratch that, my main thing is marrying up.We both like investing
we both married up
we both love the Cats
you have multiple brothers that look nothing like you
3 similarities and just one difference
Post by: Kat Kid on April 05, 2021, 08:05:53 PM
Post by: sys on April 05, 2021, 08:58:18 PM
https://twitter.com/MarineauMary/status/1379242485445185540
Post by: DaBigTrain on April 06, 2021, 08:27:31 PM
Post by: wetwillie on April 06, 2021, 10:58:58 PM
Man, I was gonna buy into the Coinbase IPO but the numbers they posted today were staggering. It’s gonna open so much higher, couldn’t they have waited a little longer so I could buy more for less :curse:
You ever try to buy shares privately? EquityZen is one of the more popular ones.
Post by: DaBigTrain on April 06, 2021, 11:37:17 PM
I haven’t but I will look into it. I’ve got some money that is just itching to invest in this thing.Man, I was gonna buy into the Coinbase IPO but the numbers they posted today were staggering. It’s gonna open so much higher, couldn’t they have waited a little longer so I could buy more for less :curse:
You ever try to buy shares privately? EquityZen is one of the more popular ones.
Post by: wetwillie on April 06, 2021, 11:43:11 PM
I haven’t but I will look into it. I’ve got some money that is just itching to invest in this thing.Man, I was gonna buy into the Coinbase IPO but the numbers they posted today were staggering. It’s gonna open so much higher, couldn’t they have waited a little longer so I could buy more for less :curse:
You ever try to buy shares privately? EquityZen is one of the more popular ones.
I’m making some assumptions that you qualify to be an accredited investor, that is what keeps most people from being able to purchase private shares on these sites. If you can manage to get those shares pre public offering I think as you said it will be very profitable.
Post by: steve dave on April 08, 2021, 07:21:26 PM
I think the Buffett example maybe wasn't the best illustration of compounding because it sort of comes off like, "see how much money you can have while you're on your deathbed!" WGAF.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210409/bb51c283ab4dab4c2d06cce0876fc60b.jpg)
And I think the really old, sick person angle applies even before you're really old and sick. Like, I used to dream of traveling the entire world and doing all kinds of crap. But the older I get, the more I'm like, "meh, whatever." I expect this trend to continue and by the time I'm retirement age I'll be fully content watching the birds in my back yard, which is incredibly inexpensive.
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Post by: sys on April 08, 2021, 07:27:38 PM
I expect this trend to continue and by the time I'm retirement age I'll be fully content watching the birds in my back yard.
my father exhibits this trend and it's super frustrating. every year it's like "hey dad, maybe we should all get together somewhere. you pick the country." and he's like "mph, mmm, mph, why don't you all just come to manhattan?"
Post by: Spracne on April 08, 2021, 07:38:54 PM
I expect this trend to continue and by the time I'm retirement age I'll be fully content watching the birds in my back yard.
my father exhibits this trend and it's super frustrating. every year it's like "hey dad, maybe we should all get together somewhere. you pick the country." and he's like "mph, mmm, mph, why don't you all just come to manhattan?"
Yes. The natural progression should be: world travel when young and bon vivant > recreational drugs > bird watching > palliative care drugs > sweet death.
Post by: catastrophe on April 08, 2021, 07:50:50 PM
Post by: steve dave on April 08, 2021, 08:04:36 PM
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Post by: chum1 on April 08, 2021, 08:05:05 PM
Post by: steve dave on April 08, 2021, 08:35:06 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on April 09, 2021, 06:14:47 PM
Post by: Spracne on April 09, 2021, 06:22:28 PM
I would probably like to travel in retirement but also, I can’t imagine anything worse than renting an RC and traveling the west.
Owning an RV would be worse.
Post by: KITNfury on April 09, 2021, 06:25:14 PM
Post by: catastrophe on April 09, 2021, 06:38:01 PM
Post by: steve dave on April 09, 2021, 07:19:29 PM
I do think it’s common for young people to save up with the mistaken assumption they’ll have the same desire to travel when they’re older. I also think it’s pretty rare for an older person to wish they traveled a lot when they never did much traveling before.
(https://media4.giphy.com/media/Sam2iFOFOv2Vy/giphy.gif)
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Post by: wetwillie on April 09, 2021, 07:24:15 PM
Post by: Phil Titola on April 10, 2021, 08:48:36 AM
Both are insane. Stay in hotels weirdos.
Post by: michigancat on April 10, 2021, 08:53:23 AM
Post by: Phil Titola on April 10, 2021, 09:00:31 AM
I think part of the appeal of RVs or vans is to stay in places where there aren't hotels
Also weirdo to me but I'm not a nature guy. Crapping in a pot after I saved up my whole life to see dawn break over a mountain?
Post by: KITNfury on April 10, 2021, 09:18:11 AM
Driving in a car and staying in a hotel seems quite a bit more appealing.I think we might be hindering this how to get rich thread, but a year of hotels seems pretty rough too. Every meal would be eating out which would get old and expensive. But definitely some cons to a motorhome also.
Post by: michigancat on April 10, 2021, 09:41:17 AM
Driving in a car and staying in a hotel seems quite a bit more appealing.I think we might be hindering this how to get rich thread, but a year of hotels seems pretty rough too. Every meal would be eating out which would get old and expensive. But definitely some cons to a motorhome also.
for some reason this post made me think of lukewarm soggy eggs on a styrofoam plate in a fairfield inn. yuck
Post by: KITNfury on April 10, 2021, 09:44:00 AM
I might make a vinyl decal for whatever motorhome we get that says "no soggy eggs".Driving in a car and staying in a hotel seems quite a bit more appealing.I think we might be hindering this how to get rich thread, but a year of hotels seems pretty rough too. Every meal would be eating out which would get old and expensive. But definitely some cons to a motorhome also.
for some reason this post made me think of lukewarm soggy eggs on a styrofoam plate in a fairfield inn. yuck
Post by: KITNfury on April 10, 2021, 09:44:37 AM
Maybe a eff Fairfield decal also.
Post by: Kat Kid on April 10, 2021, 11:02:23 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 10, 2021, 11:03:39 AM
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Post by: Kat Kid on April 10, 2021, 11:11:02 AM
What if you just go to Disney World for like 10 daysWhat if someone did that 6-7 times a year?
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Post by: KITNfury on April 10, 2021, 11:50:31 AM
What if I just live for a year in Buenos Aires? Would be cheaper and more enjoyable.That sounds fun too. My dream life would be traveling 3 to 6 months per year outside the US.
There's a lot to see in the lower 48 too that I think we take for granted. Or at least I probably have.
Post by: steve dave on April 10, 2021, 11:52:48 AM
It’s certainly a lifestyleWhat if you just go to Disney World for like 10 daysWhat if someone did that 6-7 times a year?
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Post by: sys on April 10, 2021, 11:54:56 AM
I think part of the appeal of RVs or vans is to stay in places where there aren't hotels
for sure.
i wouldn't buy one, but i'd be interested in spending a few months renting one.
Post by: steve dave on April 10, 2021, 12:00:43 PM
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Post by: KITNfury on April 10, 2021, 12:05:41 PM
I have a vague business relationship with basically every national RV rental company. There are some that specialize in basically nothing but German tourists who come over for like 2 month stretches and drive around the country. Also there are some that will give you one for free if you just drive it to Alaska for them. Not like to keep, but to do that drive to Alaska and make a trip out of it. Gotta get yourself home. It’s a wild deal. I would not do it but some people lose their mind for it. Also it’s obviously been a banner year for RV rentals.I'm hoping the market gets flooded over the next year with used RVs.
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The trip to Alaska could actually be pretty cool. As long as you don't camp in the wilderness and eat poison berries and die.
Post by: Phil Titola on April 10, 2021, 12:17:10 PM
What if you just go to Disney World for like 10 days
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Like, SD, I have to ask, are you like one of those big Disneyworld fans like the dress up in cosplay? I have a friend that went all in Disney and does this and I try not to judge but it seems very odd.
Post by: steve dave on April 10, 2021, 12:28:18 PM
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Post by: steve dave on April 10, 2021, 12:30:35 PM
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Post by: michigancat on April 10, 2021, 12:42:47 PM
Post by: sys on April 10, 2021, 01:24:36 PM
there are some that will give you one for free if you just drive it to Alaska for them. Not like to keep, but to do that drive to Alaska and make a trip out of it. Gotta get yourself home.
how long do you get to enjoy the trip? give me a name, i'd do the eff out of that.
Post by: tdaver on April 10, 2021, 01:41:00 PM
there are some that will give you one for free if you just drive it to Alaska for them. Not like to keep, but to do that drive to Alaska and make a trip out of it. Gotta get yourself home.
how long do you get to enjoy the trip? give me a name, i'd do the eff out of that.
Definitely. Hook me up stevedave.
Post by: steve dave on April 10, 2021, 02:23:11 PM
I’ll find outthere are some that will give you one for free if you just drive it to Alaska for them. Not like to keep, but to do that drive to Alaska and make a trip out of it. Gotta get yourself home.
how long do you get to enjoy the trip? give me a name, i'd do the eff out of that.
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Post by: steve dave on April 10, 2021, 02:23:35 PM
I'm just jealous of how rich you have to be to take that many Disney trips a yearI’m poor AF! Because I go to Disney World so much!
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Post by: michigancat on April 10, 2021, 02:25:51 PM
You're still backdooring Roth's! Come on! :sdeek:I'm just jealous of how rich you have to be to take that many Disney trips a yearI’m poor AF! Because I go to Disney World so much!
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Post by: wetwillie on April 10, 2021, 04:01:11 PM
What if I just live for a year in Buenos Aires? Would be cheaper and more enjoyable.
Best post in this thread yet
Post by: mocat on April 11, 2021, 10:24:13 AM
Yes 100% yesthere are some that will give you one for free if you just drive it to Alaska for them. Not like to keep, but to do that drive to Alaska and make a trip out of it. Gotta get yourself home.
how long do you get to enjoy the trip? give me a name, i'd do the eff out of that.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on April 12, 2021, 11:08:59 AM
I have a vague business relationship with basically every national RV rental company. There are some that specialize in basically nothing but German tourists who come over for like 2 month stretches and drive around the country. Also there are some that will give you one for free if you just drive it to Alaska for them. Not like to keep, but to do that drive to Alaska and make a trip out of it. Gotta get yourself home. It’s a wild deal. I would not do it but some people lose their mind for it. Also it’s obviously been a banner year for RV rentals.
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I can't take the kids to Costco with me without them fighting in the car and me losing my mind. We wouldn't need to find out how to make it back from Alaska and the place would find their RV at the bottom of a cliff somewhere.
Post by: steve dave on April 12, 2021, 11:57:00 AM
Sorry, free is not for the public apparently. But cheap AF. There’s another outfit out of IA that does it but aren’t offering it right now.Yes 100% yesthere are some that will give you one for free if you just drive it to Alaska for them. Not like to keep, but to do that drive to Alaska and make a trip out of it. Gotta get yourself home.
how long do you get to enjoy the trip? give me a name, i'd do the eff out of that.
https://www.greatalaskanholidays.com/alaska-rv-rentals/specials/spring-adventure-package/
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Post by: Fedor on April 12, 2021, 01:56:35 PM
I am in as well. Also already living the RV life and I freaking love it.Yes 100% yesthere are some that will give you one for free if you just drive it to Alaska for them. Not like to keep, but to do that drive to Alaska and make a trip out of it. Gotta get yourself home.
how long do you get to enjoy the trip? give me a name, i'd do the eff out of that.
Post by: DaBigTrain on April 14, 2021, 01:16:45 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on April 14, 2021, 01:53:18 PM
Post by: steve dave on April 14, 2021, 03:15:05 PM
Post by: chum1 on April 15, 2021, 09:45:26 AM
I launched an "algo trading" program this morning. In the first hour, I spent like $120 on commission to make $17 in profit. Lol.
I just pulled the plug. My plan was to give it six months live and then reevaluate. At this point, I don't think it will be worth the effort to continue developing it further.
New get rich plan is to get a second remote job and dump all income from it into investment funds.
Post by: KITNfury on April 15, 2021, 02:00:59 PM
If you want to accelerate normal investing - and by normal I mean stock type investing - visit the real estate investing thread. Most people spend 25-33% of their income on housing. If you can get a 1-4 unit building and either rent out rooms or other units, you'll likely reduce your living expenses by at least half of not make your housing free. That's essentially like giving yourself a 15-30% raise that you could otherwise spend on investments.I launched an "algo trading" program this morning. In the first hour, I spent like $120 on commission to make $17 in profit. Lol.
I just pulled the plug. My plan was to give it six months live and then reevaluate. At this point, I don't think it will be worth the effort to continue developing it further.
New get rich plan is to get a second remote job and dump all income from it into investment funds.
Post by: steve dave on April 15, 2021, 03:41:13 PM
Post by: KITNfury on April 15, 2021, 03:48:02 PM
KITNfury, your zeal for real estate and property management has me pretty worried your going to try to sell me a "plan" soon. irl love the passion though.Yea, sometimes I wonder if I come off as preachy. I don't talk about it too much irl, except to the wife. Probably drives her nuts.
But anyway if someone is talking about working more to make more money, I can't help it. There's an easier way.
Post by: Kat Kid on April 15, 2021, 07:38:49 PM
Post by: KITNfury on April 15, 2021, 08:16:05 PM
I honestly don’t personally have any interest in managing tenants or properties. I am much happier managing stocks and crypto.I don't have much interest either, so I don't do much of it. I self manage some, but they are nicer properties with good tenants, so not many issues that I deal with. The rest are handled by a property manager. The best part for me is monthly income. Crypto or whatever typically means you lose equity if you get income. Property gives you income while you gain equity.
I do understand why people prefer crypto or other stocks. You just tap your phone to buy or sell.
Post by: steve dave on April 16, 2021, 07:43:05 AM
I launched an "algo trading" program this morning. In the first hour, I spent like $120 on commission to make $17 in profit. Lol.
I just pulled the plug. My plan was to give it six months live and then reevaluate. At this point, I don't think it will be worth the effort to continue developing it further.
New get rich plan is to get a second remote job and dump all income from it into investment funds.
out of curiosity what are you doing where you are paying commissions?
Post by: Fedor on April 16, 2021, 08:12:12 AM
I had the same question, there are plenty of places w/ free trading.I launched an "algo trading" program this morning. In the first hour, I spent like $120 on commission to make $17 in profit. Lol.
I just pulled the plug. My plan was to give it six months live and then reevaluate. At this point, I don't think it will be worth the effort to continue developing it further.
New get rich plan is to get a second remote job and dump all income from it into investment funds.
out of curiosity what are you doing where you are paying commissions?
Post by: chum1 on April 16, 2021, 08:19:49 AM
out of curiosity what are you doing where you are paying commissions?
Had to in order to use the broker's programming interface. It was all automated.
I had the "PRO" Interactive Brokers account. The ticker updated in microseconds or whatever and it was WILD. You could sit there and watch 40% price jumps that lasted less than a second. Stuff you never see on an ordinary ticker. That stuff always looked shady whether or not it actually was. Pretty cool!
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2021, 08:53:50 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 16, 2021, 09:19:54 AM
I know it did not work out the way you wanted but I respect the crap out of your attempt. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.Yes, agree here
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Post by: chum1 on April 16, 2021, 09:40:53 AM
Part of the deal with this stuff is that no one who is really successful at it is going to share their strategy. So, in order to know if something will work, you just have to try it.
Post by: steve dave on April 18, 2021, 09:18:03 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210419/b240972f2a4d9072921b3889a9e9e3d6.jpg)I think the Buffett example maybe wasn't the best illustration of compounding because it sort of comes off like, "see how much money you can have while you're on your deathbed!" WGAF.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210409/bb51c283ab4dab4c2d06cce0876fc60b.jpg)
And I think the really old, sick person angle applies even before you're really old and sick. Like, I used to dream of traveling the entire world and doing all kinds of crap. But the older I get, the more I'm like, "meh, whatever." I expect this trend to continue and by the time I'm retirement age I'll be fully content watching the birds in my back yard, which is incredibly inexpensive.
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Post by: WillieWatanabe on April 19, 2021, 09:25:03 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51-UO5NWIEL._SX370_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
Post by: steve dave on April 22, 2021, 01:17:06 PM
Post by: ben ji on April 22, 2021, 01:23:05 PM
(https://awealthofcommonsense.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Screenshot-2021-04-09-120942.jpg)
https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2021/04/what-happens-after-the-stock-market-is-up-big/
Post by: steve dave on April 24, 2021, 09:24:57 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210424/e01d1a2291c05e9d79b1a149eecc665e.jpg)
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Post by: sys on April 24, 2021, 09:47:45 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 24, 2021, 09:50:46 AM
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Post by: michigancat on April 24, 2021, 10:06:33 AM
Post by: KITNfury on April 24, 2021, 10:19:33 AM
You shouldn’t think of your home as an investment but congrats to everyone who owns one:shakesfist:
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Post by: steve dave on April 24, 2021, 10:34:36 AM
I think it's largely related to people moving between school years
oooh, that's a good one. given I have dozens of children you'd think I would think of that. but nope.
Post by: michigancat on April 24, 2021, 10:37:39 AM
Post by: catastrophe on April 24, 2021, 10:39:36 AM
Post by: IPA4Me on April 24, 2021, 02:55:58 PM
Oh man. I got so much equity in my house.
*Here's your new tax assessment.*
Eff that man. My house ain't worth that much.
Heh.
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Post by: steve dave on April 27, 2021, 08:16:32 AM
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Post by: ben ji on April 27, 2021, 08:22:15 AM
(https://awealthofcommonsense.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Screenshot-2021-04-06-214114.jpg)
Post by: steve dave on April 27, 2021, 08:27:42 AM
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Post by: KITNfury on April 27, 2021, 08:54:20 AM
Interest rates are straight forward and pretty obvious. Although the Fed does not directly control real estate interest rates, they heavily influence them. I don't believe the Fed will raise interest rates significantly for at least 1-2 years, maybe more, for a large variety of reasons.
Supply is short and probably will remain that way. Almost all materials for housing is way up in price. Labor to build those houses are short, so they cost more. The super hot market could be a bubble in the eyes of developers, so it's scary to go balls deep in developments when everything is expensive to build and the bubble could theoretically pop before you could sell at a profit. Long story short, new houses aren't coming online near fast enough to satisfy the demand.
The wild card is how many people are delinquent on payments and how many will get foreclosed. Almost everyone has equity in their homes right now and I believe the demand is strong enough that any people at risk of foreclosure will be able to sell at a profit this not creating a big supply of empty houses like in 2008-2010.
Post by: chum1 on April 28, 2021, 12:48:08 PM
https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1387394921187856385
Post by: steve dave on May 03, 2021, 08:41:24 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210503/d25c7a86b9a0d98b3b3198d2915b3ab6.jpg)
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Post by: catastrophe on May 03, 2021, 10:09:21 AM
Post by: steve dave on May 11, 2021, 02:33:57 PM
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Post by: kstate4life on June 02, 2021, 11:38:48 AM
Post by: Sandstone Outcropping on June 02, 2021, 11:45:05 AM
Lol. I had a plan to long term buy 3-4 augmented reality stocks a few years ago. This was one of them. I have absolutely no idea what happened with that plan, but it was never executed.Is anyone else listening to the WSJ "To the Moon" podcast about gamestop?
https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1387394921187856385
Post by: steve dave on June 02, 2021, 11:52:09 AM
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Post by: chum1 on June 07, 2021, 11:18:56 AM
https://twitter.com/WSJmarkets/status/1401910014399365123
Post by: chum1 on June 09, 2021, 06:59:44 AM
BUZZ is now like .5% of my portfolio...TO THE MOON!
So far, this thing does seem to be correlated with meme stocks, which was my expectation.
https://twitter.com/SoberLook/status/1402556344234917897
Post by: ben ji on June 09, 2021, 10:28:15 AM
BUZZ is now like .5% of my portfolio...TO THE MOON!
So far, this thing does seem to be correlated with meme stocks, which was my expectation.
https://twitter.com/SoberLook/status/1402556344234917897
Not really, I'm only showing a 9% return since I bought it back in March. I expected to be on the moon by now.
Post by: DaBigTrain on June 21, 2021, 04:53:18 PM
https://www.sportstrade.com/
Post by: catastrophe on June 21, 2021, 11:51:23 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on June 22, 2021, 07:38:50 AM
Post by: steve dave on June 22, 2021, 07:39:58 AM
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Post by: 'taterblast on June 24, 2021, 10:57:18 AM
Quote
Over the last 20 years, Thiel has quietly turned his Roth IRA — a humdrum retirement vehicle intended to spur Americans to save for their golden years — into a gargantuan tax-exempt piggy bank, confidential Internal Revenue Service data shows. Using stock deals unavailable to most people, Thiel has taken a retirement account worth less than $2,000 in 1999 and spun it into a $5 billion windfall.
:surprised:
Post by: michigancat on June 24, 2021, 11:39:54 AM
Quote
2.3 million people in Houston, Texas
what? when did it get so big???
Post by: Kat Kid on June 24, 2021, 12:14:22 PM
https://www.propublica.org/article/lord-of-the-roths-how-tech-mogul-peter-thiel-turned-a-retirement-account-for-the-middle-class-into-a-5-billion-dollar-tax-free-piggy-bank (https://www.propublica.org/article/lord-of-the-roths-how-tech-mogul-peter-thiel-turned-a-retirement-account-for-the-middle-class-into-a-5-billion-dollar-tax-free-piggy-bank)Romney did this too, I think it is s.o.p. For people that can get ipo’s and such.QuoteOver the last 20 years, Thiel has quietly turned his Roth IRA — a humdrum retirement vehicle intended to spur Americans to save for their golden years — into a gargantuan tax-exempt piggy bank, confidential Internal Revenue Service data shows. Using stock deals unavailable to most people, Thiel has taken a retirement account worth less than $2,000 in 1999 and spun it into a $5 billion windfall.
:surprised:
Post by: ben ji on June 24, 2021, 12:15:11 PM
that's wild but alsoQuote2.3 million people in Houston, Texas
what? when did it get so big???
Houston is now the 5th biggest metro in the US....20% growth from 2010-2020.
Post by: michigancat on June 24, 2021, 12:25:10 PM
that's wild but alsoQuote2.3 million people in Houston, Texas
what? when did it get so big???
Houston is now the 5th biggest metro in the US....20% growth from 2010-2020.
yeah I knew it was the 4th largest city but didn't realize it was THAT BIG
Also peter thiel sucks
Post by: 'taterblast on June 24, 2021, 01:07:04 PM
Post by: sys on June 24, 2021, 11:17:57 PM
https://twitter.com/CundillCapital/status/1408090682401693705
Post by: steve dave on June 24, 2021, 11:21:00 PM
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Post by: catastrophe on June 25, 2021, 08:30:48 AM
Post by: DaBigTrain on June 28, 2021, 03:46:00 PM
Post by: chum1 on June 28, 2021, 03:50:53 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on June 30, 2021, 03:53:01 PM
It's $.95 right now. :dunno: YOLO?
Post by: steve dave on June 30, 2021, 03:53:46 PM
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Post by: DaBigTrain on June 30, 2021, 03:55:13 PM
"Alexa, set an alert for 2-3 years to check back."
Post by: steve dave on June 30, 2021, 03:57:28 PM
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Post by: star seed 7 on June 30, 2021, 06:45:03 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on June 30, 2021, 08:03:39 PM
Tom Lee says buy energy and FAANG and I am selling some banks and doing that.
Post by: steve dave on June 30, 2021, 08:33:44 PM
Let’s get back to basics—Yeah, that’s a good move
Tom Lee says buy energy and FAANG and I am selling some banks and doing that.
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Post by: ben ji on July 02, 2021, 07:32:40 PM
Make sure to have the sound on when you watch it, last 5 seconds is my favorite part.
Post by: steve dave on July 08, 2021, 07:04:03 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5xGrKtVUAAnQBw?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Post by: KITNfury on July 08, 2021, 07:10:11 AM
I am once again asking you to hold onto your assesExplain this to me as if I were a child (please)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5xGrKtVUAAnQBw?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Post by: steve dave on July 08, 2021, 07:19:06 AM
I am once again asking you to hold onto your assesExplain this to me as if I were a child (please)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5xGrKtVUAAnQBw?format=jpg&name=900x900)
I'm not very good at it so I'm just going to plagiarize.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-07/the-great-reflation-trade-is-buckling-all-across-wall-street?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_content=markets&utm_medium=social&cmpid%3D=socialflow-twitter-markets
Quote
Driving the drama is the bond market. Benchmark 10-year Treasury yields broke below 1.3% Wednesday as real rates -- which strip out the effect of inflation -- sank below minus 1%, signaling that traders are souring on the growth outlook. That reignited a bid for the technology-heavy Nasdaq 100 Index, which touched a fresh record as the cyclically-oriented Dow Jones Industrial Average has lagged.
Taken together, the cross-asset picture suggests that investors increasingly see the best days of the so-called reflation trade in the rearview mirror. After surging economic growth resurrected value shares in the first half of the year, “peak growth” warnings have surfaced while inflation expectations -- which once rattled tech shares -- have cooled. Combined with hawkish noises from the Federal Reserve and new virus variants spreading across the globe, the shift is sending traders back into tried-and-true growth names.
“From April to May and into June, you saw a lot of peaking economic data and that is reverberating across assets,” said Matt Miskin, co-chief investment strategist at John Hancock Investment Management. “These things are still growing, but the rate of change is decelerating and the markets are pricing that in.”
Most recently, data on Tuesday showed that U.S. service providers expanded in June by less than forecast, while still indicating demand for services like restaurants, hotels and travel. And Citigroup Inc.’s economic surprise gauge -- which measures the magnitude to which reports either beat or miss forecasts -- has dipped to its lowest level since February.
Elsewhere, there are concerns China’s economic rebound may have peaked. That’s reflected in the more than 7% drop in emerging-market stocks -- touted as one of reflation’s beneficiaries -- from a record in February. Japan’s Topix equity index, perceived by some as a cyclical play, is down about 4% from a high in March, a period over which global stocks rose almost 8%.
Post by: steve dave on July 08, 2021, 07:27:59 AM
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/0487756ba4d2ac7d6d0b0f5dd921f3f7/tenor.gif?itemid=4858777)
Post by: DaBigTrain on July 09, 2021, 05:14:16 PM
Post by: steve dave on July 09, 2021, 07:36:57 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210710/049084dc4cbb38479a1870025136957e.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210710/b0bec27ed1ecea7e2c237110ffc2a84c.jpg)
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Post by: sys on July 15, 2021, 02:53:31 AM
https://twitter.com/scottlincicome/status/1415274537579683841
Post by: Pete on July 15, 2021, 07:21:52 AM
Post by: steve dave on July 15, 2021, 07:31:51 AM
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Post by: WillieWatanabe on July 15, 2021, 09:09:04 AM
Post by: chum1 on July 16, 2021, 09:15:20 AM
Post by: DaBigTrain on July 19, 2021, 02:24:07 PM
Post by: steve dave on July 29, 2021, 07:36:38 AM
Nikola has some hotness right nowlmao
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shocking news here
https://twitter.com/Tom_Winter/status/1420723097536188420
Post by: IPA4Me on July 29, 2021, 09:29:16 AM
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Post by: DaBigTrain on August 04, 2021, 04:09:48 PM
If this thing goes like GameStop does robinhood put it's own stock on its no trade list?
Post by: steve dave on August 04, 2021, 04:14:27 PM
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Post by: steve dave on August 05, 2021, 03:08:38 PM
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Post by: DaBigTrain on August 24, 2021, 01:48:19 PM
Post by: chum1 on August 27, 2021, 01:59:42 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on September 03, 2021, 03:09:00 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on September 03, 2021, 03:09:24 PM
Post by: bucket on September 03, 2021, 03:29:13 PM
I moved some money over to just do options trading. After 2 weeks in the books I am really good at this but also got royally mumped by the FDA tanking $ABBV stock this week and murdering my $121 call. :curse: :curse: :curse:
eff that. DBT must have balls of steel.
Post by: catastrophe on September 14, 2021, 12:28:17 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/13/house-democrats-propose-new-retirement-plan-rules-for-the-wealthy.html
Post by: steve dave on September 14, 2021, 12:36:37 PM
Roll ‘em if you got ‘em
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/13/house-democrats-propose-new-retirement-plan-rules-for-the-wealthy.html
:sdeek:
I'm about to do our 2021 contributions and backdoors. will be very sad if it's the last time. :frown:
Post by: catastrophe on September 14, 2021, 12:55:31 PM
Post by: WonderMeal on September 14, 2021, 01:12:47 PM
Roll ‘em if you got ‘em
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/13/house-democrats-propose-new-retirement-plan-rules-for-the-wealthy.html
This proposal only applies to individuals making $400,000/year ($450,000 for couples) or with IRAs valued at $10 million. So, while this will disproportionately impact KSU grads, it likely won't apply to the vast vast vast majority of the US.
Post by: catastrophe on September 14, 2021, 01:21:51 PM
Post by: KITNfury on September 14, 2021, 05:56:50 PM
Post by: kim carnes on September 14, 2021, 06:03:05 PM
Roll ‘em if you got ‘em
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/13/house-democrats-propose-new-retirement-plan-rules-for-the-wealthy.html
This proposal only applies to individuals making $400,000/year ($450,000 for couples) or with IRAs valued at $10 million. So, while this will disproportionately impact KSU grads, it likely won't apply to the vast vast vast majority of the US.
No. The mega backdoor will be gone no matter how much you make (assuming this passes as proposed).
Post by: sys on September 14, 2021, 06:56:24 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on September 14, 2021, 07:34:45 PM
i'll be really surprised if they can pass that (and also really sad).We’re coming for your moderate ass. Me and that working class radical from Scranton.
Post by: star seed 7 on September 14, 2021, 08:46:51 PM
Post by: sys on September 14, 2021, 11:59:01 PM
i'll be really surprised if they can pass that (and also really sad).We’re coming for your moderate ass. Me and that working class radical from Scranton.
just another commie biden bro now. unfortunate.
Post by: kim carnes on September 15, 2021, 12:25:10 PM
i'll be really surprised if they can pass that (and also really sad).We’re coming for your moderate ass. Me and that working class radical from Scranton.
I thought the plan was to tax actual rich people but that doesn’t appear to be the case.
Post by: steve dave on September 15, 2021, 12:43:21 PM
i'll be really surprised if they can pass that (and also really sad).We’re coming for your moderate ass. Me and that working class radical from Scranton.
I thought the plan was to tax actual rich people but that doesn’t appear to be the case.
it is never the case
Post by: sys on September 15, 2021, 02:35:44 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on September 20, 2021, 03:02:01 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on September 21, 2021, 09:22:49 AM
Post by: DaBigTrain on September 28, 2021, 10:23:11 AM
Post by: bucket on September 28, 2021, 11:01:50 AM
I sold some stuff last week waiting for a big dip to get back into some stuff. Good day but how much lower are we going, and when should I buy more stuff?
I read this morning to anticipate a 3-4% pullback. I'm not speaking about crypto, however.
Post by: Spracne on October 25, 2021, 01:08:44 PM
Post by: steve dave on October 25, 2021, 01:19:55 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on October 25, 2021, 01:30:13 PM
Just received a hawt stock tip from my mother about some new banger stock on NASDAQ called DWAC. Anyone holding this absolute rocket ship?
I'm listening...
Post by: catastrophe on October 25, 2021, 05:39:26 PM
Post by: steve dave on October 25, 2021, 05:40:22 PM
Post by: steve dave on October 25, 2021, 05:41:15 PM
Post by: Phil Titola on October 25, 2021, 05:43:24 PM
Post by: steve dave on October 25, 2021, 05:46:11 PM
Post by: steve dave on October 25, 2021, 05:46:41 PM
Post by: Spracne on October 25, 2021, 05:47:59 PM
Post by: Phil Titola on October 25, 2021, 06:20:11 PM
Post by: steve dave on October 25, 2021, 09:13:41 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on October 25, 2021, 09:17:08 PM
Yeah, it’s also a SPAC backed by a Mexican deal maker based out of Shanghai. The entire thing, from what I can tell, is just an idea of a Trump social media platform (parlor but not out of business?) and some big ideas about other grifting of MAGAs. They don’t have any infrastructure, intellectual property (unless you count the 45th president), physical assets, or technology of any kind.This is obviously all deep state propaganda meant to hurt the bigly successful launch of the Trump social media platform. Will be yuge.
Post by: steve dave on October 25, 2021, 09:22:21 PM
Post by: steve dave on October 26, 2021, 12:11:21 PM
https://www.depositaccounts.com/blog/inflation-treasury-series-i-savings-bonds/#:~:text=Based%20on%20today's%20release%2C%20September,life%20of%20the%20I%20Bond.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on October 26, 2021, 01:38:33 PM
Post by: Phil Titola on October 26, 2021, 01:58:43 PM
Post by: catastrophe on October 26, 2021, 03:44:25 PM
Post by: Purple Derpathy on October 26, 2021, 04:39:04 PM
if you want some ying to the cryptocurrency yang there are probably a lot of you that could benefit from getting yourself some i bonds right now. the CPI just blew up the rates and you can get an annualized 7%+ guaranteed for a 6 month term on up to $10k right now. Per person so you and a spouse can get $20k total at 7%+ annualized for 6 months.
https://www.depositaccounts.com/blog/inflation-treasury-series-i-savings-bonds/#:~:text=Based%20on%20today's%20release%2C%20September,life%20of%20the%20I%20Bond.
Worth looking into if you are 55+ and want to edge out inflation.
Post by: steve dave on October 26, 2021, 08:14:51 PM
I don’t know that this is a good entry point tbhyou are all welcome to this non-financial-advice free of charge
Post by: steve dave on October 27, 2021, 09:27:46 AM
https://twitter.com/congresstrading/status/1453352692441489412
https://twitter.com/RampCapitalLLC/status/1453364458974294020
Post by: steve dave on October 28, 2021, 04:54:02 PM
:sdeek:
Post by: Phil Titola on November 01, 2021, 12:40:37 PM
if you want some ying to the cryptocurrency yang there are probably a lot of you that could benefit from getting yourself some i bonds right now. the CPI just blew up the rates and you can get an annualized 7%+ guaranteed for a 6 month term on up to $10k right now. Per person so you and a spouse can get $20k total at 7%+ annualized for 6 months.
https://www.depositaccounts.com/blog/inflation-treasury-series-i-savings-bonds/#:~:text=Based%20on%20today's%20release%2C%20September,life%20of%20the%20I%20Bond.
ibond fixed rate is still zero but....
The composite rate for I bonds issued from November 2021 through April 2022 is 7.12 percent. This rate applies for the first six months you own the bond.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on November 01, 2021, 01:31:08 PM
Say my friend from Alaska has some S and P index fund money sitting directly at Vanguard. Would it be a PITA to just open/convert 6k of that to a traditional IRA and then transition to a Roth? or is that a terrible idea due to capital gains in the taxable account and he should probably just open a traditional with cash and convert? TIA
Post by: steve dave on November 01, 2021, 03:18:31 PM
backdoor question (att. SD).
Say my friend from Alaska has some S and P index fund money sitting directly at Vanguard. Would it be a PITA to just open/convert 6k of that to a traditional IRA and then transition to a Roth? or is that a terrible idea due to capital gains in the taxable account and he should probably just open a traditional with cash and convert? TIA
vanguard makes it very easy to open an trad ira and then convert that to a roth ira. but, I don't know about converting the existing etf into that ira. I have an ira at vanguard (zero balance currently) that I add $6k to and immediately convert that over to my roth ira at vanguard. rinse/repeat every year.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on November 01, 2021, 03:56:34 PM
backdoor question (att. SD).
Say my friend from Alaska has some S and P index fund money sitting directly at Vanguard. Would it be a PITA to just open/convert 6k of that to a traditional IRA and then transition to a Roth? or is that a terrible idea due to capital gains in the taxable account and he should probably just open a traditional with cash and convert? TIA
vanguard makes it very easy to open an trad ira and then convert that to a roth ira. but, I don't know about converting the existing etf into that ira. I have an ira at vanguard (zero balance currently) that I add $6k to and immediately convert that over to my roth ira at vanguard. rinse/repeat every year.
thanks. maybe i'll reach out and ask. since I already have funds there, it seems easy to open an IRA, transfer some of the funds to it, then convert, but what the hell do i know?
Post by: catastrophe on November 01, 2021, 04:00:35 PM
Along those lines, note that you have until like April 2022 or something to pay in your 2021 IRA amounts. So for example if you haven’t put in anything yet for 2021, you could put (I think) $12k in an IRA on March 2022 to cover both years and then immediately roll that into a Roth.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on November 02, 2021, 08:26:21 AM
I don’t think there is such a thing as “converting” taxable investments into a retirement account, so I’m pretty sure your bud would have to sell what he has in Vanguard first, in which case just funding with cash is the better option. That said, paying some capital gains isn’t the end of the world and could still be a net benefit if your retirement horizon isn’t super close.
Along those lines, note that you have until like April 2022 or something to pay in your 2021 IRA amounts. So for example if you haven’t put in anything yet for 2021, you could put (I think) $12k in an IRA on March 2022 to cover both years and then immediately roll that into a Roth.
yeah, its something to think about for sure. Fun fact. My friend in Alaska had been auto contributing to a Roth forever only to find out a few years ago that he was over the income limits. He stopped the contributions once he realized, but sometimes wonders why he just doesn't keep contributing. :dunno:
Post by: Stupid Fitz on November 02, 2021, 08:41:15 AM
backdoor question (att. SD).
Say my friend from Alaska has some S and P index fund money sitting directly at Vanguard. Would it be a PITA to just open/convert 6k of that to a traditional IRA and then transition to a Roth? or is that a terrible idea due to capital gains in the taxable account and he should probably just open a traditional with cash and convert? TIA
vanguard makes it very easy to open an trad ira and then convert that to a roth ira. but, I don't know about converting the existing etf into that ira. I have an ira at vanguard (zero balance currently) that I add $6k to and immediately convert that over to my roth ira at vanguard. rinse/repeat every year.
Last question...probably not...When you say "convert" does that mean you make the traditional a Roth and therefore have a bunch of Roth IRAs with 6k in them or can you "convert" and roll into an existing? My current Roth that I can't contribute to anymore is at a different place so it would make sense to open a traditional, fund, convert, then send the funds to my existing Roth if possible. If I can't do that, i'll prob just open two accounts at vanguard.
Post by: Phil Titola on November 02, 2021, 08:51:38 AM
I don’t think there is such a thing as “converting” taxable investments into a retirement account, so I’m pretty sure your bud would have to sell what he has in Vanguard first, in which case just funding with cash is the better option. That said, paying some capital gains isn’t the end of the world and could still be a net benefit if your retirement horizon isn’t super close.
Along those lines, note that you have until like April 2022 or something to pay in your 2021 IRA amounts. So for example if you haven’t put in anything yet for 2021, you could put (I think) $12k in an IRA on March 2022 to cover both years and then immediately roll that into a Roth.
yeah, its something to think about for sure. Fun fact. My friend in Alaska had been auto contributing to a Roth forever only to find out a few years ago that he was over the income limits. He stopped the contributions once he realized, but sometimes wonders why he just doesn't keep contributing. :dunno:
Well the IRS will eventually figure it out. Maybe. Probably.
Post by: steve dave on November 02, 2021, 09:00:15 AM
backdoor question (att. SD).
Say my friend from Alaska has some S and P index fund money sitting directly at Vanguard. Would it be a PITA to just open/convert 6k of that to a traditional IRA and then transition to a Roth? or is that a terrible idea due to capital gains in the taxable account and he should probably just open a traditional with cash and convert? TIA
vanguard makes it very easy to open an trad ira and then convert that to a roth ira. but, I don't know about converting the existing etf into that ira. I have an ira at vanguard (zero balance currently) that I add $6k to and immediately convert that over to my roth ira at vanguard. rinse/repeat every year.
Last question...probably not...When you say "convert" does that mean you make the traditional a Roth and therefore have a bunch of Roth IRAs with 6k in them or can you "convert" and roll into an existing? My current Roth that I can't contribute to anymore is at a different place so it would make sense to open a traditional, fund, convert, then send the funds to my existing Roth if possible. If I can't do that, i'll prob just open two accounts at vanguard.
just one of each. the old IRA doesn't become a roth. you just fund the roth with after tax contributions to the trad ira. vanguard makes it very easy. you just select the funding account and convert it. I do it immediately after adding the money to the trad ira so I don't have any gains to worry about come tax time. these are both vanguard products and I would imagine it would be a PITA to use an outside funding source even if it was possible and I'd not pursue that if I were you but maybe someone knows more here.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on November 02, 2021, 09:03:44 AM
backdoor question (att. SD).
Say my friend from Alaska has some S and P index fund money sitting directly at Vanguard. Would it be a PITA to just open/convert 6k of that to a traditional IRA and then transition to a Roth? or is that a terrible idea due to capital gains in the taxable account and he should probably just open a traditional with cash and convert? TIA
vanguard makes it very easy to open an trad ira and then convert that to a roth ira. but, I don't know about converting the existing etf into that ira. I have an ira at vanguard (zero balance currently) that I add $6k to and immediately convert that over to my roth ira at vanguard. rinse/repeat every year.
Last question...probably not...When you say "convert" does that mean you make the traditional a Roth and therefore have a bunch of Roth IRAs with 6k in them or can you "convert" and roll into an existing? My current Roth that I can't contribute to anymore is at a different place so it would make sense to open a traditional, fund, convert, then send the funds to my existing Roth if possible. If I can't do that, i'll prob just open two accounts at vanguard.
just one of each. the old IRA doesn't become a roth. you just fund the roth with after tax contributions to the trad ira. vanguard makes it very easy. you just select the funding account and convert it. I do it immediately after adding the money to the trad ira so I don't have any gains to worry about come tax time. these are both vanguard products and I would imagine it would be a PITA to use an outside funding source even if it was possible and I'd not pursue that if I were you but maybe someone knows more here.
This makes sense. I'll check with the BD that has my current roth. It would make sense to do it there since I already a roth open. Thanks
Post by: Phil Titola on November 02, 2021, 09:07:10 AM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on November 02, 2021, 09:22:30 AM
Make sure to understand if you have any current traditional IRA balances. If you do and they are significant, you will be paying a lot of tax doing a backdoor.
yeah, i need to figure this out too. My friend has an IRA with less than 10k in it. Its his/her fun trading account that she/he can rationalize terrible ideas by saying "its in an IRA so I can ride out the losses". Need to do some maths to make sure a backdoor is a good idea. good tip
Post by: steve dave on November 02, 2021, 09:44:02 AM
a backdoor roth is done with purely after tax money so you aren't hit with anything and then it grows tax free.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on November 02, 2021, 09:53:02 AM
yeah, if you have any traditional (pre-tax) IRA balances you aren't backdooring anything. you are converting and will pay a ton of taxes to do so. may make sense, may not depending on your current and future tax bracket, income, etc.
a backdoor roth is done with purely after tax money so you aren't hit with anything and then it grows tax free.
plus it all seems like a PITA if you have a current IRA. The solution here is for my friend's wife/husband to just do it since he/she doesn't have another IRA.
Post by: Phil Titola on November 02, 2021, 10:49:07 AM
Post by: catastrophe on November 02, 2021, 12:43:35 PM
1. It is a pain to transfer funds between retirement accounts held at different brokers. I think the last time I did it, Vanguard signed and mailed an actual check to Betterment. Maybe not a huge PITA but more complicated than you think it should be.
2. You can have more than one Roth and more than one IRA. The only real rule is you cannot contribute more than the yearly max in total across all of them.
3. Most people that do backdoor Roth are doing it because they aren’t getting any pretax benefit from their IRA contributions, so there is rarely a concern about having to retroactively pay income taxes on the funds that get rolled over. That said, even if you only contributed post-tax funds to your IRA, you will get taxed on any appreciation in the investments when they get rolled over. So if you put $5k post tax into an IRA and then roll into a Roth when it’s worth $6k, you’ll need to pay taxes on $1k.
4. Depending on who you use for the IRA/Roth, taxes can be tricky. I think just this year TurboTax finally figured out how to ask questions that catch when you’re doing a backdoor rollover, but before that I had to be very careful in how I described it or else TurboTax just assumed I was rolling over pretax dollars instead of post tax.
Post by: steve dave on November 02, 2021, 01:02:06 PM
3. Most people that do backdoor Roth are doing it because they aren’t getting any pretax benefit from their IRA contributions, so there is rarely a concern about having to retroactively pay income taxes on the funds that get rolled over. That said, even if you only contributed post-tax funds to your IRA, you will get taxed on any appreciation in the investments when they get rolled over. So if you put $5k post tax into an IRA and then roll into a Roth when it’s worth $6k, you’ll need to pay taxes on $1k.
yeah, that's why I do it all in one gulp.
Post by: 'taterblast on November 02, 2021, 01:09:38 PM
Post by: steve dave on November 02, 2021, 01:16:50 PM
someone tell me how to choose a 529. just do the state plan where i live? do it through Fidelity since my retirement is there? seems to be a lot of options at first glance, admittedly have done about 5 minutes of research.
Nebraska has a really good so just contribute directly through the NE NEST plan. But I think each state has their own rules and plan and some of the states suck bigtime. NE's is good because my contributions can be deducted from my state taxes. This isn't really advice because I got as far as googling it and read NE had one of the better programs and just went with that.
Post by: Phil Titola on November 02, 2021, 01:19:00 PM
someone tell me how to choose a 529. just do the state plan where i live? do it through Fidelity since my retirement is there? seems to be a lot of options at first glance, admittedly have done about 5 minutes of research.
Nebraska has a really good so just contribute directly through the NE NEST plan. But I think each state has their own rules and plan and some of the states suck bigtime. NE's is good because my contributions can be deducted from my state taxes. This isn't really advice because I got as far as googling it and read NE had one of the better programs and just went with that.
MO has the same benefit using their MOST 529
Post by: 'taterblast on November 02, 2021, 01:20:52 PM
Quote
What’s more, seven “parity” states offer income tax breaks for contributions, regardless of which plan you use: Arizona, Arkansas, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, and Pennsylvania.4 If you call one of these states home, you have even more incentive to shop around because you’ll get a tax deduction or credit anyway.
Post by: michigancat on November 02, 2021, 01:24:31 PM
someone tell me how to choose a 529. just do the state plan where i live? do it through Fidelity since my retirement is there? seems to be a lot of options at first glance, admittedly have done about 5 minutes of research.
if your state has an income tax break, use their plan and pick an index fund to invest in. Otherwise use Fidelity (or Vanguard, but whatevs).
Post by: catastrophe on November 02, 2021, 01:29:09 PM
100psomeone tell me how to choose a 529. just do the state plan where i live? do it through Fidelity since my retirement is there? seems to be a lot of options at first glance, admittedly have done about 5 minutes of research.
if your state has an income tax break, use their plan and pick an index fund to invest in. Otherwise use Fidelity (or Vanguard, but whatevs).
Texas offers no real benefit (the price of living in a no income tax state) so I use Vanguard (which is technically a Nevada plan I think). Works easy as pie.
Post by: chum1 on November 02, 2021, 01:37:34 PM
Post by: steve dave on November 02, 2021, 01:40:27 PM
I have 529s for my kids. As far as I know, that'll just save a few bucks on capital gains taxes. I don't know if I should even care about that. It's a super small amount relative to the total cost of college.
not 100% certain you are aware of what the ol' S&P has been doing for the last decade....
Post by: yoga-like_abana on November 02, 2021, 01:40:40 PM
Post by: steve dave on November 02, 2021, 01:44:02 PM
I have one 529 and a gaggle of kids. Knowing that if it's not used up by first kiddo it passes to next what are all of your thoughts on just putting the most amount into one of those rather than having various 529's with smaller amounts?
we got lump sum gifts (in the form of wheat for top secret reasons :cool:) when each of our kids were born and started theirs with those funds. so each has their own. not sure if there are any pitfalls to just doing it your way though.
Post by: catastrophe on November 02, 2021, 01:51:05 PM
We have separate 529s for each kid. I really doubt they’ll leave any cash in either, but if they do there are plenty of ways to transfer the money while avoiding taxes. I think I even crunched the numbers and taking the 10% penalty and cashing out isn’t even necessarily a money loser if you had the money invested long enough.
Post by: catastrophe on November 02, 2021, 01:54:09 PM
I have 529s for my kids. As far as I know, that'll just save a few bucks on capital gains taxes. I don't know if I should even care about that. It's a super small amount relative to the total cost of college.Unless my kids end up private grade schooling, I plan on making all my 529 contributions by at least 10 years before college, so I’m actually banking on the money mostly being market gains.
Post by: chum1 on November 02, 2021, 02:03:17 PM
I have 529s for my kids. As far as I know, that'll just save a few bucks on capital gains taxes. I don't know if I should even care about that. It's a super small amount relative to the total cost of college.
not 100% certain you are aware of what the ol' S&P has been doing for the last decade....
Looks like the taxes would be about 10% of the total cost. Higher than I thought. Given that it's a one time type of expense, though, I still don't care all that much.
Post by: chum1 on November 02, 2021, 02:04:15 PM
I have 529s for my kids. As far as I know, that'll just save a few bucks on capital gains taxes. I don't know if I should even care about that. It's a super small amount relative to the total cost of college.Unless my kids end up private grade schooling, I plan on making all my 529 contributions by at least 10 years before college, so I’m actually banking on the money mostly being market gains.
That's awesome. Also very unusual, I'd think.
Post by: Phil Titola on November 02, 2021, 02:22:10 PM
You can’t exactly share a 529 as far as I know, so if your kids are spaced less than four years apart it could be a pain figuring out how to manage those expenses. Of course you could just pay a year or two for one kid before passing it down, etc.
We have separate 529s for each kid. I really doubt they’ll leave any cash in either, but if they do there are plenty of ways to transfer the money while avoiding taxes. I think I even crunched the numbers and taking the 10% penalty and cashing out isn’t even necessarily a money loser if you had the money invested long enough.
You can share it will family of yours. I have all my niece/nephew on one kid right now just because I didn't want to open up separate for each. As they decide to go to school or not I'll move it around.
Post by: Kat Kid on November 02, 2021, 02:37:02 PM
I have one 529 and a gaggle of kids. Knowing that if it's not used up by first kiddo it passes to next what are all of your thoughts on just putting the most amount into one of those rather than having various 529's with smaller amounts?Same, you can change the name. I may regret later when I have to make multiple payments out of it for different kids but whatever.
Post by: catastrophe on November 02, 2021, 06:09:36 PM
Maybe unusual, but some people start contributing before their kid is even born!I have 529s for my kids. As far as I know, that'll just save a few bucks on capital gains taxes. I don't know if I should even care about that. It's a super small amount relative to the total cost of college.Unless my kids end up private grade schooling, I plan on making all my 529 contributions by at least 10 years before college, so I’m actually banking on the money mostly being market gains.
That's awesome. Also very unusual, I'd think.
Post by: ben ji on November 03, 2021, 08:04:01 AM
I have one 529 and a gaggle of kids. Knowing that if it's not used up by first kiddo it passes to next what are all of your thoughts on just putting the most amount into one of those rather than having various 529's with smaller amounts?
we got lump sum gifts (in the form of wheat for top secret reasons :cool:) when each of our kids were born and started theirs with those funds. so each has their own. not sure if there are any pitfalls to just doing it your way though.
Oh look, the Dave family doing more farm mafia crap. I'm assuming it was all on paper etc but I'm getting a kick out of imagining a hopper truck pulling into SD's suburban neighborhood then papa dave jumps out and says "Congrats! Brought a gift! Where's the closest elevator to here?!?"
Post by: steve dave on November 03, 2021, 08:51:34 AM
I have one 529 and a gaggle of kids. Knowing that if it's not used up by first kiddo it passes to next what are all of your thoughts on just putting the most amount into one of those rather than having various 529's with smaller amounts?
we got lump sum gifts (in the form of wheat for top secret reasons :cool:) when each of our kids were born and started theirs with those funds. so each has their own. not sure if there are any pitfalls to just doing it your way though.
Oh look, the Dave family doing more farm mafia crap. I'm assuming it was all on paper etc but I'm getting a kick out of imagining a hopper truck pulling into SD's suburban neighborhood then papa dave jumps out and says "Congrats! Brought a gift! Where's the closest elevator to here?!?"
yeah, it's 100% farm mafia stuff
Post by: meow meow on November 03, 2021, 08:54:25 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on November 03, 2021, 08:59:21 AM
Post by: steve dave on November 03, 2021, 09:15:01 AM
how do you determine the cost basis on a bushel of wheat?I have no idea, I hate farming
Post by: DaBigTrain on November 03, 2021, 09:27:26 AM
Post by: Phil Titola on November 03, 2021, 09:39:38 AM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on November 03, 2021, 09:41:04 AM
Post by: chum1 on November 04, 2021, 12:37:39 PM
Post by: steve dave on November 05, 2021, 01:35:21 PM
so that's good
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleaebeling/2021/11/04/irs-announces-higher-retirement-plan-contribution-amounts-for-iras-401ks-and-more-for-2022/?sh=3d648b8d3b1b
Post by: DaBigTrain on November 08, 2021, 03:02:59 PM
Post by: steve dave on November 10, 2021, 11:49:08 AM
:sdeek:
Post by: bucket on November 10, 2021, 11:53:43 AM
https://twitter.com/stocktalkweekly/status/1458491238739546127
:sdeek:
Hasn't spooked the market yet. This was a big concern last month or August.
Post by: Pete on November 10, 2021, 11:57:45 AM
Post by: steve dave on November 26, 2021, 09:17:19 AM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on November 26, 2021, 09:27:25 AM
Post by: catastrophe on November 26, 2021, 10:01:28 AM
No idea what I’ll end up doing for myself.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on November 26, 2021, 11:40:50 AM
I briefly looked into this for my folks but there just doesn’t seem to be a lot out there. At this point I’m of the mindset that I’m better off building up my own nest egg to help out with fun/comfort expenses and letting Medicare/Medicaid cover long term health costs, which are almost guaranteed to be ridiculous.Yeah, that has always been my plan, but seeing someone get drained by a 6k per month bill first hand has made me think about it more.
No idea what I’ll end up doing for myself.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: DaBigTrain on November 26, 2021, 12:13:53 PM
Post by: Spracne on November 26, 2021, 12:16:25 PM
Post by: steve dave on November 26, 2021, 12:16:50 PM
Why is literally everything (including crypto) down 10%?? :bang:Omicron
Post by: steve dave on November 26, 2021, 12:17:20 PM
Post by: bucket on December 07, 2021, 10:21:13 AM
Post by: steve dave on December 20, 2021, 06:58:02 AM
:frown:
Post by: Pete on December 20, 2021, 07:11:41 AM
going to be a lot of red today bros and brodettes. BBB not going through is going to crater this thing.
:frown:
Probably people like me pissed that they aren't going to get those sweet ass cheap(er) electric sleds.
Post by: steve dave on December 20, 2021, 07:13:20 AM
going to be a lot of red today bros and brodettes. BBB not going through is going to crater this thing.
:frown:
Probably people like me pissed that they aren't going to get those sweet ass cheap(er) electric sleds.
https://twitter.com/JimPethokoukis/status/1472717668239171591
:frown:
Post by: steve dave on December 20, 2021, 07:16:44 AM
https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/1472918254297489409
Post by: IPA4Me on December 20, 2021, 08:23:28 AM
Post by: 'taterblast on December 20, 2021, 08:26:04 AM
In more positive news for all you Cerner cats (assuming you have options of some sort) :kstategrad: :kstategrad: :kstategrad:
https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/1472918254297489409
a bittersweet (or just sweet?) jump in my net worth over the past few days
Post by: steve dave on December 30, 2021, 06:08:14 PM
https://twitter.com/analystegg/status/1476601845871173633
Post by: steve dave on January 06, 2022, 09:33:21 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220106/897ff37189c4e37667f3312ad04a8a29.jpg)
Post by: ben ji on January 06, 2022, 11:40:23 AM
Which way we going gang?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220106/897ff37189c4e37667f3312ad04a8a29.jpg)
To the moon. Stonks only go up
Post by: Stupid Fitz on January 06, 2022, 12:06:45 PM
Which way we going gang?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220106/897ff37189c4e37667f3312ad04a8a29.jpg)
To the moon. Stonks only go up
Yep, just zoom the chart in or out or make the line longer or shorter and....... :kstategrad:
Post by: DaBigTrain on January 19, 2022, 03:03:33 PM
Post by: bucket on January 21, 2022, 11:06:27 AM
Which way we going gang?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220106/897ff37189c4e37667f3312ad04a8a29.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJjE9OSXIAEu6Fi?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Post by: chum1 on January 21, 2022, 11:12:38 AM
Post by: steve dave on January 21, 2022, 05:32:25 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJorBu8XsAEl68r?format=jpg&name=large)
Post by: ben ji on January 21, 2022, 05:35:22 PM
topically, 200d moving average. we going up or down gang?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJorBu8XsAEl68r?format=jpg&name=large)
TO. THE. MOON.
Post by: Kat Kid on January 21, 2022, 05:52:48 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Post by: steve dave on January 21, 2022, 06:10:33 PM
We will bounce off that thing, but I bet it stays low enough that the slope of the 200 day catches up because we have been so high above the 200 day it will break down pretty quickly.Agreed. I bet we get a good bounce but then about 10% down longer term.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Post by: IPA4Me on January 23, 2022, 03:42:54 PM
Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
Post by: slackcat on January 24, 2022, 07:51:38 AM
Post by: steve dave on January 24, 2022, 10:02:57 AM
(https://t4.ftcdn.net/jpg/02/71/77/29/360_F_271772976_HuWABSR2UATPRi6SOYKFykpQiC3WonEw.jpg)
Post by: slackcat on January 24, 2022, 10:05:56 AM
Post by: DaBigTrain on January 24, 2022, 11:24:15 AM
Looks like we are headed down imo.
Still headed down.
Post by: steve dave on January 25, 2022, 08:36:02 AM
alright, I'm going for it
(https://t4.ftcdn.net/jpg/02/71/77/29/360_F_271772976_HuWABSR2UATPRi6SOYKFykpQiC3WonEw.jpg)
yes, I caught it!
(https://www.eqimg.com/5minWrapUp/images/2018/05082018-banner-equitymaster.jpg)
Post by: steve dave on January 25, 2022, 04:43:41 PM
Post by: sys on January 25, 2022, 05:37:40 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 25, 2022, 05:54:23 PM
the value of my holdings has barely moved. i'm getting fomo from everyone tweeting about a correction.sys, that is wild.
Post by: Kat Kid on January 25, 2022, 06:25:51 PM
Post by: CHONGS on January 25, 2022, 06:57:17 PM
:gocho:
Post by: Kat Kid on January 25, 2022, 07:17:52 PM
Post by: sys on January 25, 2022, 07:21:46 PM
What the eff is sys’ portfolio?
lots of energy, lots of financials, lots of foreign.
Post by: Kat Kid on January 25, 2022, 07:33:22 PM
Well that’s the ticket.What the eff is sys’ portfolio?
lots of energy, lots of financials, lots of foreign.
Post by: Kat Kid on January 25, 2022, 07:39:59 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Post by: DaBigTrain on February 02, 2022, 03:31:09 PM
Post by: chum1 on February 04, 2022, 08:26:13 AM
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/03/facebook-and-google-stocks-have-diverged-and-the-reason-is-apple.html
(https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/107010846-1643911255312-FB_vs_GOOG.jfif)
Post by: WillieWatanabe on February 05, 2022, 10:34:07 PM
Post by: sys on February 05, 2022, 11:06:41 PM
my personal opinion as a non-account holder is that vanguard kinda skates by on reputation. i don't think they currently offer the best service/options as a brokerage and iirc, even their funds are no longer the lowest cost.
Post by: tdaver on February 06, 2022, 12:49:17 AM
Post by: michigancat on February 06, 2022, 07:24:00 AM
Ms WW is finally out making good money now. Want to go the S&P index fund route. Does anyone have a preference between Vanguard and Fidelity, or feel strongly about a different one? Those two seem to be the most recommended from my research. And Ms WW has like 5 tiny ass retirement accounts that will all need consolidated, but i'm assuming either one can make that process fairly easy.
I use Vanguard, which is fine if that's what you want, but consolidating retirement accounts is an insane pain in the ass. I can't think of a time it didn't involve an actual paper check from the account you're trying to close. It's insane and should probably be illegal.
Post by: steve dave on February 06, 2022, 07:48:21 AM
Post by: steve dave on February 06, 2022, 07:55:00 AM
Post by: WillieWatanabe on February 06, 2022, 08:47:59 AM
Ms WW is finally out making good money now. Want to go the S&P index fund route. Does anyone have a preference between Vanguard and Fidelity, or feel strongly about a different one? Those two seem to be the most recommended from my research. And Ms WW has like 5 tiny ass retirement accounts that will all need consolidated, but i'm assuming either one can make that process fairly easy.
I use Vanguard, which is fine if that's what you want, but consolidating retirement accounts is an insane pain in the ass. I can't think of a time it didn't involve an actual paper check from the account you're trying to close. It's insane and should probably be illegal.
wonder if a couple are small enough to just cash out & take the hit if that would be easier.
Post by: Kat Kid on February 06, 2022, 08:51:12 AM
Post by: WillieWatanabe on February 06, 2022, 08:52:04 AM
If you are looking for a brokerage account you should not use vanguard. Fidelity or Schwab are better options there. Not sure if you were asking for where to open an account or what ETF you should buy though.
Well the first was going to lead to the next question so thanks.
So i take it you prefer ETFs vs Mutual Fund?
Post by: Kat Kid on February 06, 2022, 08:55:39 AM
Post by: steve dave on February 06, 2022, 09:40:26 AM
If you are looking for a brokerage account you should not use vanguard. Fidelity or Schwab are better options there. Not sure if you were asking for where to open an account or what ETF you should buy though.
Well the first was going to lead to the next question so thanks.
So i take it you prefer ETFs vs Mutual Fund?
absolutely, yes. ETFs are superior in every way.
Post by: steve dave on February 06, 2022, 09:42:30 AM
Post by: WillieWatanabe on February 06, 2022, 10:51:59 AM
If my interests change later, i could see doing random things on the side.
Post by: Kat Kid on February 06, 2022, 10:54:49 AM
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Post by: Justwin on February 06, 2022, 11:24:05 AM
Correct. Just want to put in low cost, long term investments. Most I would want to do is move allocation between stocks/bonds down the road.
If my interests change later, i could see doing random things on the side.
I use Fidelity and buy the iShares ETFs that have no transaction fees and very low expenses. I buy ITOT which is a total US stock market index fund. It includes large caps (S&P 500), mid caps and small caps. In the long run, I believe small caps tend to outperform large caps, so I think having a total US market ETF is better than an S&P 500 fund. I also buy some IXUS which is a total world stock market index fund except that it does not include the US.
Post by: WillieWatanabe on February 06, 2022, 11:27:44 AM
Is this a retirement/tax sheltered account or taxable account?
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One of each. The rollovers will be retirement. Once its established and the contribution limit is reached, then a taxable account for the extra money.
I'm obviously a noob at this stuff so if I am way off, feel free to correct me.
Post by: Kat Kid on February 06, 2022, 12:21:10 PM
Buffet and Bogle basically would advise you to just put it all in an s&p 500 index, I think if you aren’t comfortable doing that, then do what justwin describes and I bet he would be willing to give you his proportions.
But again, I cannot emphasize this enough, eff bonds.
Post by: Justwin on February 06, 2022, 12:59:00 PM
I think my biggest piece of advice to people that are investing longer term is to not have any bonds. I don’t really do much international exposure, but I think doing that is way more reasonable than bonds.
Buffet and Bogle basically would advise you to just put it all in an s&p 500 index, I think if you aren’t comfortable doing that, then do what justwin describes and I bet he would be willing to give you his proportions.
But again, I cannot emphasize this enough, eff bonds.
I do 0% bonds. I consider myself to be pretty heavily invested in bonds through Social Security.
I do roughly 65-35 or 70-30 US vs International on new investments. The US position has become a higher percentage due to the US outperforming the international markets and I am fine with that (I don't rebalance that).
Post by: catastrophe on February 06, 2022, 01:22:37 PM
I don’t expect I’ll invest in anything other than S&P 500 and Total US index going forward (although I did have some luck investing in a US growth fund for a 529).
And at least with Vanguard, I will say the one way mutual funds are superior to ETFs is you can auto invest a set amount of money every week easily, whereas for ETFs you have to first transfer money into a settlement account and go from there.
Post by: steve dave on February 06, 2022, 01:55:21 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on February 06, 2022, 05:27:14 PM
Post by: michigancat on February 06, 2022, 06:34:26 PM
Post by: ben ji on February 06, 2022, 09:19:49 PM
Anyways that was kind of cool.
Post by: WillieWatanabe on February 06, 2022, 09:25:47 PM
My total international funds are doing terribly, but I guess that’s the nature of a “hedge” when US stocks have killed it for so long.
I don’t expect I’ll invest in anything other than S&P 500 and Total US index going forward (although I did have some luck investing in a US growth fund for a 529).
And at least with Vanguard, I will say the one way mutual funds are superior to ETFs is you can auto invest a set amount of money every week easily, whereas for ETFs you have to first transfer money into a settlement account and go from there.
I guess I need to do more research on ETF vs mutual fund. Simplicity is really what I'm going for here.
Post by: WillieWatanabe on February 06, 2022, 09:29:34 PM
Post by: ben ji on February 06, 2022, 09:32:22 PM
Probably a dumb question but oh well. Ms ww does not want anything to do with any of the financial stuff that goes along with being an adult. Can i set up everything for her under my account, or do I need to create her accounts and then grant myself access to view after that?
For a brokerage account it doesnt really matter if its under her name or your name. If its an IRA you need to set up the account under her name/SSN etc.
I'm not sure if you can someone link it to your accounts and be able to see them all on one page but I doubt it.
Post by: catastrophe on February 06, 2022, 10:22:43 PM
I had to create a separate account for my wife’s IRA and can attest to the above. The “I” in IRA is for Individual and they’re kinda sticklers about that. I don’t think you can link them in Vanguard and you don’t really need to. Just contribute whatever toward the $6k max for the year and forget about it until next year.Probably a dumb question but oh well. Ms ww does not want anything to do with any of the financial stuff that goes along with being an adult. Can i set up everything for her under my account, or do I need to create her accounts and then grant myself access to view after that?
For a brokerage account it doesnt really matter if its under her name or your name. If its an IRA you need to set up the account under her name/SSN etc.
I'm not sure if you can someone link it to your accounts and be able to see them all on one page but I doubt it.
Post by: catastrophe on February 06, 2022, 10:28:42 PM
The biggest downside to mutual funds is that the lowest fee ones (at least in Vanguard) are like $3k to initially invest. Otherwise you should be able to find one with similar fees and returns as other ETFs. VTSAX is what I use primarily for total stock market.My total international funds are doing terribly, but I guess that’s the nature of a “hedge” when US stocks have killed it for so long.
I don’t expect I’ll invest in anything other than S&P 500 and Total US index going forward (although I did have some luck investing in a US growth fund for a 529).
And at least with Vanguard, I will say the one way mutual funds are superior to ETFs is you can auto invest a set amount of money every week easily, whereas for ETFs you have to first transfer money into a settlement account and go from there.
I guess I need to do more research on ETF vs mutual fund. Simplicity is really what I'm going for here.
Post by: catastrophe on February 06, 2022, 10:30:36 PM
I think it has been discussed, but an s&p 500 fund is basically an international fundIs this like a square is always a rectangle but a rectangle isn’t always a square? Cause in that case the rectangle I bought is losing my entire ass!
Post by: steve dave on February 07, 2022, 07:57:28 AM
The biggest downside to mutual funds is that the lowest fee ones (at least in Vanguard) are like $3k to initially invest. Otherwise you should be able to find one with similar fees and returns as other ETFs. VTSAX is what I use primarily for total stock market.My total international funds are doing terribly, but I guess that’s the nature of a “hedge” when US stocks have killed it for so long.
I don’t expect I’ll invest in anything other than S&P 500 and Total US index going forward (although I did have some luck investing in a US growth fund for a 529).
And at least with Vanguard, I will say the one way mutual funds are superior to ETFs is you can auto invest a set amount of money every week easily, whereas for ETFs you have to first transfer money into a settlement account and go from there.
I guess I need to do more research on ETF vs mutual fund. Simplicity is really what I'm going for here.
On the fees I believe the Vanguard Admiral Shares require $10k min. At least they used to. They are also much slower to enter and exit and don't value throughout the day since they lack the T in ETF. This is actually what the dave ramsey's (complete psychopath) of the world like about mutual funds. it's the saving envelope of our personal finances or whatever crap they talk about and it's a pita to mess with.
Post by: Kat Kid on February 07, 2022, 08:08:12 AM
I think the ETF actually has lower fees now unless you have $10,000 in there but there is almost no difference in practical terms.
Post by: DQ12 on February 07, 2022, 09:11:07 AM
Correct. Just want to put in low cost, long term investments. Most I would want to do is move allocation between stocks/bonds down the road.You sound like me. I park all my brokerage stuff (what I invest in excess of 401k/IRA contributions) in VTI on an ameritrade account. It seems like a pretty safe and brainless way to do it. That's the advice my dad gave me a long time ago, so I don't know if that's still a good place to dump it, but AFAIK (not much), it's still valid.
If my interests change later, i could see doing random things on the side.
Post by: catastrophe on February 07, 2022, 10:26:58 AM
The biggest downside to mutual funds is that the lowest fee ones (at least in Vanguard) are like $3k to initially invest. Otherwise you should be able to find one with similar fees and returns as other ETFs. VTSAX is what I use primarily for total stock market.My total international funds are doing terribly, but I guess that’s the nature of a “hedge” when US stocks have killed it for so long.
I don’t expect I’ll invest in anything other than S&P 500 and Total US index going forward (although I did have some luck investing in a US growth fund for a 529).
And at least with Vanguard, I will say the one way mutual funds are superior to ETFs is you can auto invest a set amount of money every week easily, whereas for ETFs you have to first transfer money into a settlement account and go from there.
I guess I need to do more research on ETF vs mutual fund. Simplicity is really what I'm going for here.
On the fees I believe the Vanguard Admiral Shares require $10k min. At least they used to. They are also much slower to enter and exit and don't value throughout the day since they lack the T in ETF. This is actually what the dave ramsey's (complete psychopath) of the world like about mutual funds. it's the saving envelope of our personal finances or whatever crap they talk about and it's a pita to mess with.
Since this impacts the people I care about most (me) I looked up the numbers:
VTSAX (Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares)
(Minimum investment: $3,000)
Expense Ratio: .04%
1-yr average annual returns: 18.52%
3-yr: 19.85%
5-yr: 16.08%
10-yr: 15%
Since 2000: 8.25%
VTI (Vanguard Total Stock Market ETF)
Expense Ratio: .03%
1-yr average annual returns: 18.58%
3-yr: 19.82%
5-yr: 16.08%
10-yr: 14.99%
Since 2001: 8.67%
VOO (Vanguard S&P 500 ETF)
Expense Ratio: .03%
1-yr average annual returns: 23.30%
3-yr: 20.64%
5-yr: 16.73%
10-yr: 15.38%
So my takeaway is:
1. Pretty clearly no advantages to mutual funds OTHER THAN ease of recurring deposits
2. You can find a mutual fund with returns and fees in line with the best/most popular ETFs if you truly do want to set and forget it
Post by: steve dave on February 07, 2022, 10:30:36 AM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on February 24, 2022, 10:19:51 AM
I'm late to the party in planning most of these things but a medicaid asset protection trust (irrevocable trust). Long term care insurance is unfortunately ungodly expensive or for the most part not available anymore through insurers. Insurance companies lost their asses on it.
Life insurance, term is great buy this crap out of it. Having an annuity or some permanent life insurance in place is also great.
Having a durable power of attorney and a will in place. Basically if you have not figured out a way to keep your nest egg you should do so today.
Feel free to add or correct me on anything.
Post by: steve dave on February 24, 2022, 10:33:36 AM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on February 24, 2022, 11:09:44 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 01, 2022, 11:03:20 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 01, 2022, 11:04:31 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on April 01, 2022, 11:13:09 AM
Post by: 'taterblast on April 01, 2022, 11:15:48 AM
2s through 30s all inverted :Ughhh:
i totally know what this means but can you explain for everyone else they probably need it
Post by: Justwin on April 01, 2022, 11:19:16 AM
2s through 30s all inverted :Ughhh:
i totally know what this means but can you explain for everyone else they probably need it
It's referring to inverted yield curves. Shorter term bonds have higher interest rates than longer term bonds. This is not typically the case.
The reason it's notable is that some people take it as a sign of an impending recession on the belief that it indicates investors, etc. believe that the Fed will have to lower interest rates in the future to combat a recession.
Post by: 'taterblast on April 01, 2022, 11:21:20 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on April 01, 2022, 11:21:51 AM
Quote
Anu Gaggar, global investment strategist for Commonwealth Financial Network, says that the 2-and-10 yield curve has inverted 28 times since 1900, and in 22 of those instances, a recession has followed.
https://www.kiplinger.com/investing/stocks/604484/inverted-yield-curve-stocks (https://www.kiplinger.com/investing/stocks/604484/inverted-yield-curve-stocks)
Post by: steve dave on April 01, 2022, 11:22:16 AM
2s through 30s all inverted :Ughhh:
i totally know what this means but can you explain for everyone else they probably need it
short term debt has a higher interest rate than long term debt. why would you invest in a 10 year when you can get a bigger rate on a 2 year? it usually means bond investors expect lower interest rates further out. it's a fairly reliable indicator that economic growth is slowing. a lot of people tie it to an impending recession but that's overly dramatic imo. it's probably a bigger deal right now too because we've got Jerome getting ready to drop the 50 basis pt hammer 3 or so times in a row which will also slow down growth. but he's backed into a corner and has no other options because inflation is going crazy.
Post by: Kat Kid on April 01, 2022, 11:23:48 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 01, 2022, 11:24:53 AM
I love that we got 3 different answers that all brought unique, accurate information. Good stuff folks.
we really should all pat ourselves on the back more often because we are a great group of people for sure
Post by: Justwin on April 01, 2022, 11:25:50 AM
I love that we got 3 different answers that all brought unique, accurate information. Good stuff folks.
we really should all pat ourselves on the back more often because we are a great group of people for sure
Definitely could be cross-posted to the signs of getting old thread.
Post by: Kat Kid on April 01, 2022, 11:27:59 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 01, 2022, 11:29:32 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220401/ffe75d0106b5f8c62e3db8ee39e6d113.jpg)
Post by: 'taterblast on April 01, 2022, 11:31:10 AM
so should i sell everything in my Roth right now and then BTFD later on after the recession kicks our asses
we will HOLD until further notice
Post by: Kat Kid on April 01, 2022, 11:31:44 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 01, 2022, 11:39:36 AM
"I GIVE THE AUCTION ABOUT A C+, THE BUYERS CAME IN LATE BUT REMEMBER THE MARKET MAKERS ARE WAITING ON THE FED TO PICK UP THE SLACK"lmao
Post by: ben ji on April 01, 2022, 12:06:35 PM
:Wha:
Post by: steve dave on April 01, 2022, 12:12:06 PM
I successfully talked the lady friend out of rolling her old 401k's into a managed account with an advisor who was a friend of a friend. They were going to put her money into funds with 5% load fee's on top of a 1.5% annual fee.Should be illegal. Also annuities 99% of the time. Also whole life.
:Wha:
Post by: catastrophe on April 01, 2022, 12:14:02 PM
Post by: TheHamburglar on April 05, 2022, 10:14:15 AM
Where should they start.
Post by: ben ji on April 05, 2022, 10:38:11 AM
I’m working with a new grad that needs a Roth IRA.www.fidelity.com then click open Roth IRA
Where should they start.
Deposit money into it
Invest the money
Post by: michigancat on April 05, 2022, 10:58:41 AM
This and invest in an S&P index or total stock market IMOI’m working with a new grad that needs a Roth IRA.www.fidelity.com then click open Roth IRA
Where should they start.
Deposit money into it
Invest the money
Post by: Justwin on April 05, 2022, 11:04:43 AM
This and invest in an S&P index or total stock market IMOI’m working with a new grad that needs a Roth IRA.www.fidelity.com then click open Roth IRA
Where should they start.
Deposit money into it
Invest the money
Get automatic contributions and investments set up as well. It will be most effective if this is on autopilot.
Post by: Brock Landers on April 05, 2022, 11:06:24 AM
This and invest in an S&P index or total stock market IMOI’m working with a new grad that needs a Roth IRA.www.fidelity.com then click open Roth IRA
Where should they start.
Deposit money into it
Invest the money
Yeah, a monthly bank draft going into VOO is about as easy as it gets.
Post by: catastrophe on April 05, 2022, 12:05:31 PM
Post by: KITNfury on April 05, 2022, 06:22:15 PM
I've heard compelling arguments from both sides of whole life. I can't ever decide.I successfully talked the lady friend out of rolling her old 401k's into a managed account with an advisor who was a friend of a friend. They were going to put her money into funds with 5% load fee's on top of a 1.5% annual fee.Should be illegal. Also annuities 99% of the time. Also whole life.
:Wha:
Post by: Kat Kid on April 05, 2022, 06:54:31 PM
Post by: steve dave on April 05, 2022, 07:54:52 PM
Absolute scam.I've heard compelling arguments from both sides of whole life. I can't ever decide.I successfully talked the lady friend out of rolling her old 401k's into a managed account with an advisor who was a friend of a friend. They were going to put her money into funds with 5% load fee's on top of a 1.5% annual fee.Should be illegal. Also annuities 99% of the time. Also whole life.
:Wha:
Post by: KITNfury on April 05, 2022, 08:23:06 PM
Post by: steve dave on April 05, 2022, 09:48:14 PM
Maybe. But I've listened to be people with considerable incomes and net worth disagree. I won't argue for either point as I don't know enough, but think I know enough to believe it's not that one sided.
considerable income or net worth is lmao
Post by: ben ji on April 05, 2022, 10:46:39 PM
Post by: KITNfury on April 06, 2022, 06:27:36 AM
I don't know what that meansMaybe. But I've listened to be people with considerable incomes and net worth disagree. I won't argue for either point as I don't know enough, but think I know enough to believe it's not that one sided.
considerable income or net worth is lmao
Post by: KITNfury on April 06, 2022, 06:29:43 AM
95% of people (or some other real high number) would be better off buying term life insurance and investing the difference in their 401k/IRA/Brokerage account.True. I think most people I'm referring to basically use it as cash to temporarily fund projects while still accruing interest to benefit themselves. Sort of like a savings account. The whole "be your own bank" thing.
Post by: KITNfury on April 06, 2022, 06:30:11 AM
Post by: sys on April 06, 2022, 08:36:49 AM
considerable income or net worth is lmaoI don't know what that means
he means that observing that wealthy people have chosen that investment vehicle is not good evidence that it is a competitive investment vehicle.
Post by: KITNfury on April 06, 2022, 09:09:17 AM
Like I said, I won't argue either side. I could see it being good tool for some of my needs, but would never consider it as a primary wealth building investment either.considerable income or net worth is lmaoI don't know what that means
he means that observing that wealthy people have chosen that investment vehicle is not good evidence that it is a competitive investment vehicle.
Also, mimicking people richer and smarter than I has served me well so far.
Post by: Kat Kid on April 06, 2022, 09:12:21 AM
Post by: michigancat on April 06, 2022, 09:13:04 AM
I feel like this could be settled with a spreadsheetLike I said, I won't argue either side. I could see it being good tool for some of my needs, but would never consider it as a primary wealth building investment either.considerable income or net worth is lmaoI don't know what that means
he means that observing that wealthy people have chosen that investment vehicle is not good evidence that it is a competitive investment vehicle.
Also, mimicking people richer and smarter than I has served me well so far.
Post by: KITNfury on April 06, 2022, 09:34:05 AM
In my experience, rich and smart don't correlate nearly as much as most people assume.But some people are both
Post by: KITNfury on April 06, 2022, 09:40:46 AM
It could. But it would require how it's being used.I feel like this could be settled with a spreadsheetLike I said, I won't argue either side. I could see it being good tool for some of my needs, but would never consider it as a primary wealth building investment either.considerable income or net worth is lmaoI don't know what that means
he means that observing that wealthy people have chosen that investment vehicle is not good evidence that it is a competitive investment vehicle.
Also, mimicking people richer and smarter than I has served me well so far.
Example, and keep in mind I absolutely might be rough ridin' up some of what I remember. But from what I was told, you can have whole life and get loans from the whole life company using your policy as the collateral. And the interest you pay, or at least a portion (?), goes back to you. So if you have $100k in your whole life policy, and you take out $50k, you pay yourself the interest on that $50k loan. All the while, your complete $100k is accruing interest at its full value. So if it's 3%, you still make $3k that year in normal interest plus whatever interest you're paying yourself for the $50k loan.
If that is true, then you're essentially using it like a "high" interest savings account. People like me often need liquidity for the short-ish term (say 6 months to 2 years), but hate leaving money in a checking or shitty savings account. So I do think there are some quality uses for whole life, assuming what I was told is somewhat accurate. To use whole life as your retirement plan, probably not a great idea.
Post by: DQ12 on April 06, 2022, 09:43:48 AM
1. i have a roth at NWM, and i want to move it over to TDA. I want to do this because (1) i have a TDA brokerage account and i'd like to consolidate at one place; and (2) NWM charges an annual $50 roth maintenance fee and i don't think TDA does (?). is this conversion a PITA?
2. how do income limits work, and if i'm approaching the household magi income limit, should i just transition the entire thing to traditional or is there a hybrid scheme (i.e. contribute phaseout max to roth, and some additional amount to traditional) that makes sense? if a hybrid scheme works, is managing that a PITA? i'd like to just set it and forget it as much as possible.
Post by: steve dave on April 06, 2022, 09:45:13 AM
Just don’t tell people you got swindled onto whole life and nobody will mock youIt could. But it would require how it's being used.I feel like this could be settled with a spreadsheetLike I said, I won't argue either side. I could see it being good tool for some of my needs, but would never consider it as a primary wealth building investment either.considerable income or net worth is lmaoI don't know what that means
he means that observing that wealthy people have chosen that investment vehicle is not good evidence that it is a competitive investment vehicle.
Also, mimicking people richer and smarter than I has served me well so far.
Example, and keep in mind I absolutely might be rough ridin' up some of what I remember. But from what I was told, you can have whole life and get loans from the whole life company using your policy as the collateral. And the interest you pay, or at least a portion (?), goes back to you. So if you have $100k in your whole life policy, and you take out $50k, you pay yourself the interest on that $50k loan. All the while, your complete $100k is accruing interest at its full value. So if it's 3%, you still make $3k that year in normal interest plus whatever interest you're paying yourself for the $50k loan.
If that is true, then you're essentially using it like a "high" interest savings account. People like me often need liquidity for the short-ish term (say 6 months to 2 years), but hate leaving money in a checking or shitty savings account. So I do think there are some quality uses for whole life, assuming what I was told is somewhat accurate. To use whole life as your retirement plan, probably not a great idea.
Post by: 'taterblast on April 06, 2022, 09:46:01 AM
2. how do income limits work, and if i'm approaching the household magi income limit, should i just transition the entire thing to traditional or is there a hybrid scheme (i.e. contribute phaseout max to roth, and some additional amount to traditional) that makes sense? if a hybrid scheme works, is managing that a PITA? i'd like to just set it and forget it as much as possible.
no, keep what you have in roth. the MAGI limit only applies to Roth contributions during that tax year where your income exceeded the limit. so if you think you're going to exceed MAGI limit in a given year start doing a backdoor Roth. (contribute to Traditional then transfer to Roth. very stupid but easy once you do it.)
Post by: steve dave on April 06, 2022, 09:47:36 AM
IRA QUESTIONS1. No input here
1. i have a roth at NWM, and i want to move it over to TDA. I want to do this because (1) i have a TDA brokerage account and i'd like to consolidate at one place; and (2) NWM charges an annual $50 roth maintenance fee and i don't think TDA does (?). is this conversion a PITA?
2. how do income limits work, and if i'm approaching the household magi income limit, should i just transition the entire thing to traditional or is there a hybrid scheme (i.e. contribute phaseout max to roth, and some additional amount to traditional) that makes sense? if a hybrid scheme works, is managing that a PITA? i'd like to just set it and forget it as much as possible.
2. Contribute the first $6k after tax money (you and spouse both get $6k) and immediately convert it to a Roth. Back door that they will probably take away soon so get it while it’s hot.
Post by: Kat Kid on April 06, 2022, 10:04:45 AM
Post by: catastrophe on April 06, 2022, 10:53:52 AM
My only advice is to make sure you have everything papering the transaction in case they report it weirdly for taxes. Whenever you backdoor rollover, for example, Vanguard reports it as a distribution but checks some kinda box like “no idea if this is taxable,” so it’s on you to insist (and prove if necessary) around tax time that all the funds actually went into an IRA within whatever the required time period is (something like 90 days after withdrawing from an existing IRA I think).
Post by: catastrophe on April 11, 2022, 10:52:34 AM
You hear a lot about how your portfolio should shift to more bonds when you near retirement to protect you from volatility, but presumably you’re putting almost nothing in DURING retirement, so when should you start buying more bonds? And more importantly, why?
If I bought VOO 20 years ago, don’t those gains alone hedge against any short term volatility for the VOO I buy today? And won’t the VOO I buy today definitely out perform any bonds when I finally have to sell THOSE shares 20 years from now?
Post by: Kat Kid on April 11, 2022, 11:01:49 AM
I’ve got a question that is maybe dumb or maybe genius. Barring some major change in rates, does it ever make sense to buy something other than stocks/equities?As you approach retirement and start to draw down you may want to prevent a big loss of capital as you are already drawing down the balance. The problem is bonds look like crap for the foreseeable future and have underperformed terribly and also not held up in recent crashes very well at all.
You hear a lot about how your portfolio should shift to more bonds when you near retirement to protect you from volatility, but presumably you’re putting almost nothing in DURING retirement, so when should you start buying more bonds? And more importantly, why?
If I bought VOO 20 years ago, don’t those gains alone hedge against any short term volatility for the VOO I buy today? And won’t the VOO I buy today definitely out perform any bonds when I finally have to sell THOSE shares 20 years from now?
I don’t have all the answers but I think for most people even 70/30 is way too conservative for the cast majority of their investing life. I would be much less comfortable knowing what allocations should be in years approaching retirement or retirement but would be happy to hear from other knowledgeable sources here.
Post by: catastrophe on April 11, 2022, 12:42:11 PM
Post by: WillieWatanabe on April 11, 2022, 01:22:37 PM
I think i want to remove it from that service and just throw it all in the Schwab S&P 500 index Fund and call it a day. Good idea?
Post by: Kat Kid on April 11, 2022, 01:27:54 PM
Finally got ms ww's retirement plan set up through her work. By default it wants to put the funds in their "managed target income" service. Looks like it's spread across 5 or 6 funds, including a couple bond ones.
I think i want to remove it from that service and just throw it all in the Schwab S&P 500 index Fund and call it a day. Good idea?
yes if you are not 60+ yrs old
Post by: Kat Kid on April 11, 2022, 01:29:13 PM
Here is what is tripping me up: say I'm within 10 years of retirement. If I switch from 100/0 to 80/20 now, then I'm missing out on 10 years' worth of S&P 500 gains on 20% of my portfolio leading up to retirement. Do the back-end benefits (less likelihood of having to withdraw money during a crash at substantially below what the gains should be) really outweigh the gains given up during those years? Would it make more sense to try and build up 1-2 years worth of expenses in an 80/20 portfolio (regardless of how long that takes) and just leave that as your recession safety net while plunging everything else into S&P 500?
The biggest reason that doesn't work for people is human behavior because people panic and sell the bottom and then don't buy back in. If you have the stomach for the risks, the S&P has been much better than holding any allocation to bonds.
Post by: catastrophe on April 11, 2022, 01:47:51 PM
Thanks. I will most likely avoid getting much into bonds at all, save maybe selling some stocks at good points to replenish a bond-heavy safety net if needed. I’m planning to “retire” with plenty of good working years left in me so I hope to be especially well positioned to weather a troubled economy by just picking up some work if needed.Here is what is tripping me up: say I'm within 10 years of retirement. If I switch from 100/0 to 80/20 now, then I'm missing out on 10 years' worth of S&P 500 gains on 20% of my portfolio leading up to retirement. Do the back-end benefits (less likelihood of having to withdraw money during a crash at substantially below what the gains should be) really outweigh the gains given up during those years? Would it make more sense to try and build up 1-2 years worth of expenses in an 80/20 portfolio (regardless of how long that takes) and just leave that as your recession safety net while plunging everything else into S&P 500?
The biggest reason that doesn't work for people is human behavior because people panic and sell the bottom and then don't buy back in. If you have the stomach for the risks, the S&P has been much better than holding any allocation to bonds.
Post by: ben ji on April 11, 2022, 03:14:55 PM
KK makes a great point. I am nowhere near my retirement age but my current plan is to keep around 5 years of living expenses in a bond fund that I withdraw for spending money throughout the year. Once a year you move some money from stocks to bonds unless there is a huge market crash and then all you have to do is pray the market recovers sometime in the next 5 years while you keep spending your bond funds.Thanks. I will most likely avoid getting much into bonds at all, save maybe selling some stocks at good points to replenish a bond-heavy safety net if needed. I’m planning to “retire” with plenty of good working years left in me so I hope to be especially well positioned to weather a troubled economy by just picking up some work if needed.Here is what is tripping me up: say I'm within 10 years of retirement. If I switch from 100/0 to 80/20 now, then I'm missing out on 10 years' worth of S&P 500 gains on 20% of my portfolio leading up to retirement. Do the back-end benefits (less likelihood of having to withdraw money during a crash at substantially below what the gains should be) really outweigh the gains given up during those years? Would it make more sense to try and build up 1-2 years worth of expenses in an 80/20 portfolio (regardless of how long that takes) and just leave that as your recession safety net while plunging everything else into S&P 500?
The biggest reason that doesn't work for people is human behavior because people panic and sell the bottom and then don't buy back in. If you have the stomach for the risks, the S&P has been much better than holding any allocation to bonds.
Who knows if that will be a viable strategy in 20 years.
Post by: steve dave on April 11, 2022, 04:44:57 PM
Post by: sys on April 11, 2022, 07:09:46 PM
my current plan is to keep around 5 years of living expenses in a bond fund that I withdraw for spending money throughout the year.
i dunno if it makes sense or not, but this is basically my plan; 4-5 years worth of living expenses in bonds (i'll probably go individual bonds and not a fund) to be used whenever the market is significantly down. otherwise living expenses will come from stocks.
Post by: Phil Titola on April 11, 2022, 07:17:02 PM
Post by: catastrophe on April 11, 2022, 08:17:53 PM
the "how much do I want to spend in retirement" is where I always get tripped up. it's going to be mostly discretionary spending and if I retire before I'm old I'm going to get bored and want to travel every other week, or feel better about retiring earlier and just not spend as much but be bored stiff.It’s not too hard for us to get an approximation of our living expenses year to year. I’m using that (inflation adjusted) plus a modest premium (~25%) for my yearly retirement income goal. No science to it at all and obviously my expense needs will be totally different, but my thought process is if I can make it work now without budgeting, then I’ll be able to comfortably live off of it later when I can save in plenty of places I’m wasting money on now.
Post by: catastrophe on April 11, 2022, 08:19:40 PM
Post kickass bond recommendations ITT.my current plan is to keep around 5 years of living expenses in a bond fund that I withdraw for spending money throughout the year.
i dunno if it makes sense or not, but this is basically my plan; 4-5 years worth of living expenses in bonds (i'll probably go individual bonds and not a fund) to be used whenever the market is significantly down. otherwise living expenses will come from stocks.
Post by: Phil Titola on April 11, 2022, 08:25:22 PM
the "how much do I want to spend in retirement" is where I always get tripped up. it's going to be mostly discretionary spending and if I retire before I'm old I'm going to get bored and want to travel every other week, or feel better about retiring earlier and just not spend as much but be bored stiff.It’s not too hard for us to get an approximation of our living expenses year to year. I’m using that (inflation adjusted) plus a modest premium (~25%) for my yearly retirement income goal. No science to it at all and obviously my expense needs will be totally different, but my thought process is if I can make it work now without budgeting, then I’ll be able to comfortably live off of it later when I can save in plenty of places I’m wasting money on now.
Yeah good approach. I have all my data in quicken so easy to see I just don't know how much more I'm going to want to frivolously spend once I don't work. While I do whatever I want now I have the job constraint.
Post by: sys on April 11, 2022, 08:31:43 PM
Post kickass bond recommendations ITT.
i'll probably just put most of it in 2 year treasuries. maybe a bit in corporates or munis to goose the yield a little.
Post by: catastrophe on April 11, 2022, 10:01:00 PM
When do you start buying? Are you thinking you would sell securities to buy the bonds at retirement?Post kickass bond recommendations ITT.
i'll probably just put most of it in 2 year treasuries. maybe a bit in corporates or munis to goose the yield a little.
I’m still caught up in the opportunity cost of not investing in stocks leading up to retirement. Maybe for early retirees the answer is withdrawing all Roth contributions on retirement and using those to buy treasury bonds?
Post by: sys on April 11, 2022, 10:03:47 PM
Post by: catastrophe on April 11, 2022, 10:16:15 PM
Post by: sys on April 12, 2022, 12:02:33 AM
Post by: steve dave on April 18, 2022, 09:30:59 AM
bond yield talk on the old sports message board
https://twitter.com/JeffreyKleintop/status/1516060153992253444
Post by: sys on April 23, 2022, 09:04:06 PM
Post by: ben ji on April 23, 2022, 09:49:41 PM
https://twitter.com/mark_dow/status/1517898468265578497
Post by: steve dave on April 29, 2022, 09:01:51 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/warren-buffetts-protege-is-building-a-mini-berkshire-11649496605?reflink=share_mobilewebshare
Post by: sys on April 29, 2022, 09:05:36 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on April 29, 2022, 09:06:42 PM
Post by: steve dave on April 29, 2022, 09:15:07 PM
Like her mentor, Tracy Britt Cool looks for founder-run companies with ‘moats,’ but she doesn’t share his hands-off-approach
Tracy Britt Cool co-founded an investment firm, Kanbrick, that aims to buy one or two businesses a year and hold them for the long term.
PHOTO: KANBRICK
By Chip CutterFollow
Updated April 9, 2022 12:32 pm ET
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Tracy Britt Cool spent a decade working for Warren Buffett. She now wants to buy the kinds of companies that might have interested the famed investor 30 or 40 years ago.
Those are businesses typically run by founders or family owners that have solid performance and competitive “moats”—a favorite term of Mr. Buffett’s—yet aren’t big enough to draw Berkshire Hathaway Inc.’s attention today.
“Berkshire needs multibillion-dollar acquisitions to move the needle,” Ms. Cool says. “So many of the people who contact us or reach out would want to sell to Berkshire, but they’re just too small.”
Ms. Cool launched an investment firm with a former colleague in 2020, called Kanbrick, that aims to focus on such companies. It has so far acquired Thirty-One Gifts, a Columbus, Ohio, company that sells tote bags, backpacks and other items through independent consultants. Kanbrick is working on investments with a home-services company and consumer brands.
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Picking the right spots takes time. Before buying a business, Ms. Cool said she and her team will typically sit down with founders and aim to understand not only the fundamentals of the business, but the people working there and the strategy, hoping to answer: “What might be the challenge here, what might be the opportunity?” she said.
To get to know founders, Kanbrick also runs a three-month program for midsize companies that provides coaching and other support; so far, Ms. Cool and her colleagues have worked with 15 companies, including a large Arizona farm that sells cantaloupe and honeydew melons to big-box retailers.
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The 37-year-old Ms. Cool grew up on a family farm in Kansas that shipped produce across the Midwest. She attended Harvard Business School and joined Berkshire in 2009 at age 25, initially working as Mr. Buffett’s financial assistant.
She later became chief executive of a cookware company owned by Berkshire, Pampered Chef, and along the way took on assignments within Berkshire helping struggling companies. She served as the chairman of Berkshire companies such as Benjamin Moore & Co. and Johns Manville, and sat on the board of Kraft Heinz Co. and others.
In an interview in 2019, Mr. Buffett called Ms. Cool “the fireman,” capable of helping to revive companies and of taking on any assignment.
Ms. Cool recently spoke with The Wall Street Journal from her home office in Nashville, Tenn. Here are edited excerpts:
WSJ: What was it that made you say there’s a need for this model?
Ms. Cool: Over the years, I’ve talked to a lot of founders and owners, some of whom would come to Berkshire and want to sell their companies; other people I met through organizations. What I found is that most midsize companies struggle with the same things: how to hire the right people, how to develop them, how to incentivize them, how to help them to grow, how to build a strategy. So what we did is we built a business system to help in those areas, and that really allowed us to create value with companies.
A lot of families and founders don’t want to sell to traditional private equity. They don’t want to see their business bought and sold or chopped up or their employees fired. We could provide them a longer-term home, and help them build in the right way.
Ms. Cool, who spent a decade at Berkshire Hathaway, at the conglomerate’s 2014 shareholder meeting in Omaha, Neb.
PHOTO: DANIEL ACKER/BLOOMBERG NEWS
WSJ: What sorts of companies are you focusing on?
Ms. Cool: We want businesses that are going to be around and successful and strong, and have some sort of moat allowing them to have above-average returns on capital. Smaller businesses that are $10 [million] to $50 million in [earnings before interest and taxes] are sort of our sweet spot in size. They’re beyond the new-growth phase, but they’re not quite very large businesses.
They tend to be family businesses, founder-owned businesses. We have a lot of conversations with families, founders who want a partner, who want a longer-term home, but don’t really think that maybe a strategic or private-equity firm is the right fit for them.
WSJ: How does your approach differ from private equity?
Ms. Cool: One is just how long we hold companies. Most private-equity firms own businesses for three or four years. If you’re going to own a company three or four years, the minute you buy it, you’re thinking about selling it, and every decision you’re making is focused on: What am I going to do to sell this business? A lot of investments you make in businesses don’t pay off in three to four years, and so I think having that longer-term horizon is super valuable.
Most people in private equity typically [have] financial backgrounds. Both my partner and I started our careers as investors but thought it was very important to go get operating experience.
I became the CEO of Pampered Chef, he became the CFO, really with that goal of: How do we actually become better at what we do? And I think having that operating experience helps us make better decisions, understand what’s possible in a business, what’s needed. And then we can relate with a founder or owner or CEO because we’ve been in their shoes and we know businesses aren’t run on spreadsheets and PowerPoints, right?
WSJ: So how do you pick your spots—and what industries are you avoiding?
‘A lot of families and founders don’t want to sell to traditional private equity. They don’t want to see their business bought and sold or chopped up or their employees fired.’
— Tracy Britt Cool, co-founder of Kanbrick
Ms. Cool: There are some places that we don’t play. We don’t play in real estate. We don’t play in financials. We don’t play in biotech. There’s just spaces where we don’t have the expertise, the insight, and we’re not going to be better than someone else. Then there’s other industries where you’ve had a lot more experience and things are interesting. And so those broad industries are consumer, industrial, business services, but within those there’s hundreds of subsectors.
So we spend time looking at a lot of different ones and really saying: Do we think that this is a really great business? Do we think that it’s going to continue for 10, 15, 20 years and not be disrupted by someone else or by technology? And then, third, is it a space where we can add some valuable insights or perspective?
WSJ: You’re focusing on midsize companies. How do the challenges these companies face differ from what larger companies are experiencing?
Ms. Cool: People and culture is always—in my view—the number one issue that any company has.
How do we attract really great talent to my company? Perhaps I am based in a rural part of Minnesota or Missouri or something like that. How do I help people understand why they want to join my business that they’ve never heard of? Everyone’s heard of P&G, Coca-Cola. People haven’t heard of most midsize companies. Then, once I have them in the organization, how do I develop them? Because it’s not like I’ve got, you know, hundreds of thousands of jobs; I’ve got probably a couple hundred jobs. And so I need to get the right people, but show them a career path.
WSJ: What’s the long-term plan for Kanbrick? Do you want to go public?
Ms. Cool: We don’t have a specific outcome in terms of what we want to achieve via go public or otherwise. It really is: How do we build it in the right way? And then how do we add value to the companies, to our team, to our investors, and help support everyone in doing that?
WSJ: How have you funded Kanbrick?
Ms. Cool: It’s a combination of our capital, and then we have a select group of investors, endowments and family offices that are partners.
WSJ: It appears there are a lot of similarities between Kanbrick and Berkshire—a long-term focus, moats, you even wrote an annual letter last year like Mr. Buffett. How does it differ?
Ms. Cool: Berkshire is very successful, so being similar to Berkshire is a good thing by and large, in my mind. I’d say we differ on two dimensions. The biggest is size. We can focus on much smaller businesses that are just too small for Berkshire. That’s where I think the biggest opportunity is and why ultimately I left to start Kanbrick. The second differentiator is we’re more hands on. Berkshire famously is very hands off.
WSJ: Did Mr. Buffett give any advice that sticks with you as you’re building this firm?
Ms. Cool: It’s hard to distill it down because there’s so many lessons from my time at Berkshire and working closely with Warren over 10 years. I think just the power of long term, the power of finding high-quality businesses and the power of partnering with high-quality people. When those three things are done in the right way, you can build something really amazing.
Post by: michigancat on April 29, 2022, 10:59:08 PM
Post by: 'taterblast on April 30, 2022, 07:20:23 AM
Post by: bucket on May 05, 2022, 01:26:21 PM
Post by: Spracne on May 05, 2022, 01:27:09 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FR231CtXoAQW2OQ?format=jpg&name=small)
Did you hack into my cypto accounts or something???
Post by: bucket on May 05, 2022, 01:47:55 PM
Post by: steve dave on May 05, 2022, 03:23:06 PM
Post by: steve dave on May 05, 2022, 03:27:09 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSBV-O0XwAAqXC_?format=jpg&name=medium)
Post by: steve dave on May 05, 2022, 05:06:34 PM
Post by: Justwin on May 05, 2022, 05:43:31 PM
irl talk though: if you have a trad IRA and have been considering converting that thing to a roth now is the time.
This is good advice. I would check to see if you are close to any thresholds for an increase in your marginal tax rate, though, to see how much you should convert.
Post by: steve dave on May 05, 2022, 05:52:26 PM
irl talk though: if you have a trad IRA and have been considering converting that thing to a roth now is the time.
This is good advice. I would check to see if you are close to any thresholds for an increase in your marginal tax rate, though, to see how much you should convert.
:thumbs:
Post by: sys on May 05, 2022, 07:01:12 PM
Post by: steve dave on May 05, 2022, 07:02:21 PM
still up, ytd.lmao wild
Post by: catastrophe on May 05, 2022, 07:44:40 PM
Post by: steve dave on May 05, 2022, 07:47:43 PM
All my cash out refi money got in pretty close to the top of this thing I think. This is why I don’t day trade.
ha, yeah. I don't really trade much either. I just buy.
Post by: ben ji on May 05, 2022, 11:04:07 PM
When STONKS are tanking (Like I assume they are now) I will check every other month.
I did recently check my balances because one of the few individual stocks I own is Twitter which I bought like $1000 worth of maybe 5 years ago for $17...Now that Elon is buying it I'm basically a millionaire right?
Post by: steve dave on May 05, 2022, 11:38:53 PM
When STONKS are booming I will check my balances a couple of times a week.
When STONKS are tanking (Like I assume they are now) I will check every other month.
I did recently check my balances because one of the few individual stocks I own is Twitter which I bought like $1000 worth of maybe 5 years ago for $17...Now that Elon is buying it I'm basically a millionaire right?
No, but yes. everything has eaten crap but $twtr is stuck at kinda below what elon outrageously bid for it and if it closes at what he bid for it you get that and if his deal falls apart you get to keep your twitter shares at like $20 a share.
Post by: bucket on May 06, 2022, 10:43:01 AM
Quote
But should the S&P 500 officially enter the bear’s lair, Bank of America strategists led by Michael Hartnett, have calculated just how long the pain could last. Looking at a history of 19 bear markets over the past 140 years, they found the average price decline was 37.3% and the average duration about 289 days.
While “past performance is no guide to future performance,” Hartnett and the team say the current bear market would end Oct. 19 of this year, with the S&P 500 at 3,000 and the Nasdaq Composite at 10,000.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/based-on-19-bear-markets-in-the-last-140-years-heres-where-the-current-downturn-may-end-says-bank-of-america-11651847842
I'll be patient before making anymore big bets.
Post by: steve dave on May 06, 2022, 11:15:47 AM
Post by: 'taterblast on May 06, 2022, 11:50:08 AM
Post by: steve dave on May 06, 2022, 12:02:36 PM
so theoretically would it be possible to sell everything in my roth ira and let it sit there in a money market for the foreseeable future until the dust settles, and then reinvest? or are there tax implications i'm not aware of?You can, but you shouldn’t
Post by: chum1 on May 06, 2022, 12:05:08 PM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on May 06, 2022, 12:07:52 PM
so theoretically would it be possible to sell everything in my roth ira and let it sit there in a money market for the foreseeable future until the dust settles, and then reinvest? or are there tax implications i'm not aware of?
Yes, and please let us all know when the dust settles so we can get super rich along with you.
Post by: Spracne on May 06, 2022, 12:20:20 PM
so theoretically would it be possible to sell everything in my roth ira and let it sit there in a money market for the foreseeable future until the dust settles, and then reinvest? or are there tax implications i'm not aware of?
Yes, and please let us all know when the dust settles so we can get super rich along with you.
lmao. Exactly. Also, I would like to add 'taterblast to my professional network on LinkedIn. I need someone to tell me when exactly to time the market.
Post by: michigancat on May 06, 2022, 12:24:01 PM
so theoretically would it be possible to sell everything in my roth ira and let it sit there in a money market for the foreseeable future until the dust settles, and then reinvest? or are there tax implications i'm not aware of?
theoretically you could do this every day and even every hour and make crazy amounts of money.
Post by: 'taterblast on May 06, 2022, 12:32:25 PM
Post by: Cardiac Cats on May 06, 2022, 12:38:40 PM
so theoretically would it be possible to sell everything in my roth ira and let it sit there in a money market for the foreseeable future until the dust settles, and then reinvest? or are there tax implications i'm not aware of?
Pretty sure the only way to avoid taxes is by cashing it all out and handing a duffel bag to Avery or some other stud.
So leave it alone or bring Avery home, you can’t lose here.
Post by: michigancat on May 06, 2022, 12:40:29 PM
obviously it would be impossible to get the timing perfect but it seems like everything is going to suck crap for a while so :dunno:
yeah this also applies to my hourly trading plan
Post by: bucket on May 06, 2022, 12:47:48 PM
so theoretically would it be possible to sell everything in my roth ira and let it sit there in a money market for the foreseeable future until the dust settles, and then reinvest? or are there tax implications i'm not aware of?
Yes, and please let us all know when the dust settles so we can get super rich along with you.
lmao. Exactly. Also, I would like to add 'taterblast to my professional network on LinkedIn. I need someone to tell me when exactly to time the market.
Well, KatKid already did it once (spring 2020)
Post by: catastrophe on May 06, 2022, 01:08:22 PM
Still missed out on a ton of gains by failing to predict the V shaped recovery. Like they say, when you try to time the market you have to be right twice.so theoretically would it be possible to sell everything in my roth ira and let it sit there in a money market for the foreseeable future until the dust settles, and then reinvest? or are there tax implications i'm not aware of?
Yes, and please let us all know when the dust settles so we can get super rich along with you.
lmao. Exactly. Also, I would like to add 'taterblast to my professional network on LinkedIn. I need someone to tell me when exactly to time the market.
Well, KatKid already did it once (spring 2020)
Post by: steve dave on May 06, 2022, 02:35:53 PM
obviously it would be impossible to get the timing perfect but it seems like everything is going to suck crap for a while so :dunno: but yeah not going to do itI’ve got some apparently breaking news for you, the best time to buy has always been when everyone thought everything was going to suck crap.
Post by: steve dave on May 09, 2022, 06:46:25 AM
:sdeek:
Post by: Phil Titola on May 09, 2022, 06:57:16 AM
I-bonds at 9.6%
:sdeek:
Fixed rate is still 0.0 shockingly and disappointingly.
Post by: steve dave on May 09, 2022, 08:32:44 AM
Post by: sys on May 09, 2022, 01:30:29 PM
still up, ytd.
i was so innocent back then.
Post by: steve dave on May 11, 2022, 09:50:54 PM
https://twitter.com/markets/status/1524582405427892224
Post by: steve dave on May 12, 2022, 05:06:47 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSljAAnXoAAE6MA?format=jpg&name=large)
Post by: yoga-like_abana on May 12, 2022, 05:23:55 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: DQ12 on May 13, 2022, 08:32:24 AM
Post by: steve dave on July 12, 2022, 06:53:44 AM
(https://i.imgflip.com/6b14c2.jpg)https://twitter.com/kgreifeld/status/1546814213678661632
Post by: yoga-like_abana on July 12, 2022, 09:22:01 AM
Post by: wetwillie on July 12, 2022, 11:44:07 AM
Post by: steve dave on July 12, 2022, 11:50:51 AM
By definition of the word we are already in it bubNot true (the two consecutive quarters of lower GDP is a recession). NOW we MAY be in a recession but the official body that calls it takes more into consideration than that. These employment numbers are telling a much different story (for now….)
Post by: wetwillie on July 12, 2022, 11:59:08 AM
Post by: DaBigTrain on August 02, 2022, 04:52:43 PM
https://kalshi.com/
Post by: ben ji on August 02, 2022, 09:27:28 PM
1. Invest as much as you can in your tax advantaged accounts (401K/IRA/rIRA/HSA etc)
2. Invest in index funds
3. Repeat for 30 years
It got kind of boring. I pretty much maxed all of my tax advantaged accounts for a couple of years in my late 20's/early 30's and now I've scaled back to let compounding interest do its work.
At some point you take a look at your lifestyle and realize the diminishing returns of saving at a high rate to retire at 50 vs 55 vs 60 etc. I'm still throwing in around 20% of my income to retirement/savings but that is dialed back from the 40% savings rate I was at a couple of years ago and I'm perfectly OKAY with it.
I used to calculate and record my net worth on a spreadsheet like once a quarter for a couple of years but now I do it about once a year or less...but if STONKS start going wild again I'll probably do it more frequently
Post by: catastrophe on August 02, 2022, 10:53:12 PM
At some point you take a look at your lifestyle and realize the diminishing returns of saving at a high rate to retire at 50 vs 55 vs 60 etc. I'm still throwing in around 20% of my income to retirement/savings but that is dialed back from the 40% savings rate I was at a couple of years ago and I'm perfectly OKAY with it.
I came to a similar realization. The good news is that when your plan is to retire early, pushing off the official retirement date by 1-3 years can make up for A TON of “under saving” in the 5-10 years leading up to that point.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on August 03, 2022, 08:55:32 AM
Man, when I first started learning more about investing/FIRE I was all about figuring out as much as I can about how the best/most effeficient ways to invest (hence why I started this thread) but after you realize its
1. Invest as much as you can in your tax advantaged accounts (401K/IRA/rIRA/HSA etc)
2. Invest in index funds
3. Repeat for 30 years
It got kind of boring. I pretty much maxed all of my tax advantaged accounts for a couple of years in my late 20's/early 30's and now I've scaled back to let compounding interest do its work.
At some point you take a look at your lifestyle and realize the diminishing returns of saving at a high rate to retire at 50 vs 55 vs 60 etc. I'm still throwing in around 20% of my income to retirement/savings but that is dialed back from the 40% savings rate I was at a couple of years ago and I'm perfectly OKAY with it.
I used to calculate and record my net worth on a spreadsheet like once a quarter for a couple of years but now I do it about once a year or less...but if STONKS start going wild again I'll probably do it more frequently
Yeah, I love reading through those FIRE stories on Reddit that prob aren't real. I guess it just depends on what you want really. I see the stories of people working and saving their asses off and then moving to some beach town in whatever country at age 40 and think of how awesome that is. Or you can have some kids, buy a big house in KS and work until you are 65 and enjoy the years as much as you can.
Post by: steve dave on August 03, 2022, 10:36:23 AM
Post by: KITNfury on August 03, 2022, 10:44:37 AM
Man, when I first started learning more about investing/FIRE I was all about figuring out as much as I can about how the best/most effeficient ways to invest (hence why I started this thread) but after you realize itsI don't know if there are any other people here that do what I do, I get the feeling I rub people wrong when I talk about RE investing, but it sincerely saddens me when steps 1-3 is WIDELY considered the way. 1-3 is an option, but there are others that do as good or better and certainly more tax advantaged.
1. Invest as much as you can in your tax advantaged accounts (401K/IRA/rIRA/HSA etc)
2. Invest in index funds
3. Repeat for 30 years
It got kind of boring. I pretty much maxed all of my tax advantaged accounts for a couple of years in my late 20's/early 30's and now I've scaled back to let compounding interest do its work.
At some point you take a look at your lifestyle and realize the diminishing returns of saving at a high rate to retire at 50 vs 55 vs 60 etc. I'm still throwing in around 20% of my income to retirement/savings but that is dialed back from the 40% savings rate I was at a couple of years ago and I'm perfectly OKAY with it.
I used to calculate and record my net worth on a spreadsheet like once a quarter for a couple of years but now I do it about once a year or less...but if STONKS start going wild again I'll probably do it more frequently
Post by: steve dave on August 03, 2022, 10:50:50 AM
Post by: steve dave on August 03, 2022, 10:54:58 AM
Post by: KITNfury on August 03, 2022, 11:10:54 AM
I appreciate your property management stories and they don’t run me the wrong way despite me having absolutely zero interest in ever doing that crap. People are all different and can be happy in different ways.I agree, and know REI is not for everyone. I also think people think they will be getting 2am calls about clogged toilets, but that shouldn't be the case.
All that being said, I just want people to know there are more options than simply stock market investing.
Post by: steve dave on August 03, 2022, 11:17:24 AM
Hell yeah bro, and I appreciate you for it.I appreciate your property management stories and they don’t run me the wrong way despite me having absolutely zero interest in ever doing that crap. People are all different and can be happy in different ways.I agree, and know REI is not for everyone. I also think people think they will be getting 2am calls about clogged toilets, but that shouldn't be the case.
All that being said, I just want people to know there are more options than simply stock market investing.
Post by: steve dave on August 03, 2022, 12:10:09 PM
Post by: catastrophe on August 03, 2022, 12:15:19 PM
I think people know it’s out there cause there are endless products and services pushing it as a great investment. It really just comes down to whether people enjoy it as a hobby.I appreciate your property management stories and they don’t run me the wrong way despite me having absolutely zero interest in ever doing that crap. People are all different and can be happy in different ways.I agree, and know REI is not for everyone. I also think people think they will be getting 2am calls about clogged toilets, but that shouldn't be the case.
All that being said, I just want people to know there are more options than simply stock market investing.
For people who feel overwhelmed by the prospect of investing their money, index funds and tax advantaged accounts are incredibly easy to learn and require no excess skills, capital, or time. The barrier to RE investing is so high that the only people going down that path are ones who are already convinced that’s what they want to do.
Post by: steve dave on August 03, 2022, 12:20:42 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220803/0857c7e338d185f9d5a4f7a3a9c55713.jpg)
Post by: steve dave on August 03, 2022, 12:23:09 PM
Post by: michigancat on August 03, 2022, 12:29:04 PM
Post by: KITNfury on August 03, 2022, 01:15:30 PM
The stock market is definitely easier, but many of your other points aren't altogether true. It does require some education, but the high barrier due to capital limitations can be navigated around. I may have mentioned how in the RE Investing thread, but can't remember. Don't want to hijack this thread further, but could discuss there or through pm if anyone wants.I think people know it’s out there cause there are endless products and services pushing it as a great investment. It really just comes down to whether people enjoy it as a hobby.I appreciate your property management stories and they don’t run me the wrong way despite me having absolutely zero interest in ever doing that crap. People are all different and can be happy in different ways.I agree, and know REI is not for everyone. I also think people think they will be getting 2am calls about clogged toilets, but that shouldn't be the case.
All that being said, I just want people to know there are more options than simply stock market investing.
For people who feel overwhelmed by the prospect of investing their money, index funds and tax advantaged accounts are incredibly easy to learn and require no excess skills, capital, or time. The barrier to RE investing is so high that the only people going down that path are ones who are already convinced that’s what they want to do.
Post by: steve dave on August 03, 2022, 01:23:27 PM
Post by: OB_Won on August 03, 2022, 01:35:01 PM
KITN, you're starting to give off Jehovah's Witness vibes now.The stock market is definitely easier, but many of your other points aren't altogether true. It does require some education, but the high barrier due to capital limitations can be navigated around. I may have mentioned how in the RE Investing thread, but can't remember. Don't want to hijack this thread further, but could discuss there or through pm if anyone wants.I think people know it’s out there cause there are endless products and services pushing it as a great investment. It really just comes down to whether people enjoy it as a hobby.I appreciate your property management stories and they don’t run me the wrong way despite me having absolutely zero interest in ever doing that crap. People are all different and can be happy in different ways.I agree, and know REI is not for everyone. I also think people think they will be getting 2am calls about clogged toilets, but that shouldn't be the case.
All that being said, I just want people to know there are more options than simply stock market investing.
For people who feel overwhelmed by the prospect of investing their money, index funds and tax advantaged accounts are incredibly easy to learn and require no excess skills, capital, or time. The barrier to RE investing is so high that the only people going down that path are ones who are already convinced that’s what they want to do.
Post by: KITNfury on August 03, 2022, 02:08:01 PM
also getting super defensive about it probably is another reasonDidn't think I was.
Post by: KITNfury on August 03, 2022, 02:08:41 PM
Yep, I rub people wrong. :(KITN, you're starting to give off Jehovah's Witness vibes now.The stock market is definitely easier, but many of your other points aren't altogether true. It does require some education, but the high barrier due to capital limitations can be navigated around. I may have mentioned how in the RE Investing thread, but can't remember. Don't want to hijack this thread further, but could discuss there or through pm if anyone wants.I think people know it’s out there cause there are endless products and services pushing it as a great investment. It really just comes down to whether people enjoy it as a hobby.I appreciate your property management stories and they don’t run me the wrong way despite me having absolutely zero interest in ever doing that crap. People are all different and can be happy in different ways.I agree, and know REI is not for everyone. I also think people think they will be getting 2am calls about clogged toilets, but that shouldn't be the case.
All that being said, I just want people to know there are more options than simply stock market investing.
For people who feel overwhelmed by the prospect of investing their money, index funds and tax advantaged accounts are incredibly easy to learn and require no excess skills, capital, or time. The barrier to RE investing is so high that the only people going down that path are ones who are already convinced that’s what they want to do.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on August 03, 2022, 02:13:31 PM
Post by: Justwin on August 03, 2022, 03:08:32 PM
Man, when I first started learning more about investing/FIRE I was all about figuring out as much as I can about how the best/most effeficient ways to invest (hence why I started this thread) but after you realize its
1. Invest as much as you can in your tax advantaged accounts (401K/IRA/rIRA/HSA etc)
2. Invest in index funds
3. Repeat for 30 years
It got kind of boring. I pretty much maxed all of my tax advantaged accounts for a couple of years in my late 20's/early 30's and now I've scaled back to let compounding interest do its work.
At some point you take a look at your lifestyle and realize the diminishing returns of saving at a high rate to retire at 50 vs 55 vs 60 etc. I'm still throwing in around 20% of my income to retirement/savings but that is dialed back from the 40% savings rate I was at a couple of years ago and I'm perfectly OKAY with it.
I used to calculate and record my net worth on a spreadsheet like once a quarter for a couple of years but now I do it about once a year or less...but if STONKS start going wild again I'll probably do it more frequently
I would call what you're doing a version of Coast FI. I'm sure it's discussed other places, but The Fioneers discuss Coast FI quite a bit.
https://thefioneers.com/coast-financial-independence-calculator/
Post by: bucket on August 04, 2022, 08:03:31 AM
Post by: steve dave on August 04, 2022, 08:24:12 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220509/4c55dce3107b08423f49b9861286e204.jpg)
yes
Post by: Stupid Fitz on August 04, 2022, 08:48:27 AM
I bought I-bonds this morning. The max you can buy is $10,000. The interest rate you receive is a fixed rate plus the inflation rate which they set twice a year. The current rate is 9.62%. Anyone else do this?
:kstategrad: :pbj: :kstategrad:
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on August 04, 2022, 09:03:57 AM
KITN you have any properties that you airbnb or vbro? seems like some are banking on those in mhk
Once my kids move out and I can retire (10 years?), I am going to vrbo my place in the fall for football games, etc and live somewhere else for a few months. Different place every year. Colorado? Sure. Ireland? Why not! Stupid/small Mexico beach town that SD hates? You betcha.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on August 04, 2022, 09:58:48 AM
KITN you have any properties that you airbnb or vbro? seems like some are banking on those in mhk
Once my kids move out and I can retire (10 years?), I am going to vrbo my place in the fall for football games, etc and live somewhere else for a few months. Different place every year. Colorado? Sure. Ireland? Why not! Stupid/small Mexico beach town that SD hates? You betcha.
This sounds amazing. Contracts RD.
Post by: mocat on August 04, 2022, 10:08:59 AM
Post by: steve dave on August 04, 2022, 10:15:11 AM
https://www.3newsnow.com/news/local-news/omaha-homeowner-uses-swimply-app-to-share-her-pool-with-the-community
Post by: ben ji on August 04, 2022, 07:00:51 PM
I'm going to put in a pool and then rent it out to people for pool partiesDo they get to come inside to pee or do they just go in your pool?
https://www.3newsnow.com/news/local-news/omaha-homeowner-uses-swimply-app-to-share-her-pool-with-the-community
Post by: Kat Kid on August 08, 2022, 06:49:22 AM
Post by: catastrophe on August 10, 2022, 10:28:23 AM
Anyone want to explain if there is a catch here? Obviously it won’t stay at 9.6 forever but seems like a good idea for alternative investment.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220509/4c55dce3107b08423f49b9861286e204.jpg)
yes
Post by: steve dave on August 10, 2022, 10:38:39 AM
Anyone want to explain if there is a catch here? Obviously it won’t stay at 9.6 forever but seems like a good idea for alternative investment.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220509/4c55dce3107b08423f49b9861286e204.jpg)
yes
there really isn't a "catch" but there are a lot of rules and whatnot. You can only buy $10k a year (per person so a spouse could buy another $10k). You lock that rate for a 6 month term so the 9.6% is annualized. It adjusts every 6 months based on CPI. You have to register and use the governments shitty website to transact in them. It's a very nice little guaranteed return that's slightly outpacing inflation and obviously a much more peggy pos option when both the equity and public bond markets have been eating crap. but now the markets are ripping and you'll be sitting there in your boring ass bond so nancy neg there.
Post by: sys on August 10, 2022, 02:48:41 PM
Post by: steve dave on August 10, 2022, 03:34:24 PM
don't you lose the last 6 months interest when you sell or something like that? i thought that was the catch (beside the 10k limit).If you cash out before it is 5 years old you lose the last 3 months. you can't cash out until they are at least 12 months old. they technically have a 30 year maturity if you plan to put them in an old book on your shelf and then die and then your house gets sold at public auction and then somebody finds them 30 years later (and you have a paper one for some reason).
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: steve dave on August 10, 2022, 03:39:07 PM
https://treasurydirect.gov/indiv/research/indepth/ibonds/res_ibonds.htm
Post by: Phil Titola on August 10, 2022, 03:54:48 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on August 10, 2022, 04:19:36 PM
Post by: steve dave on September 01, 2022, 10:00:31 AM
Post by: steve dave on September 01, 2022, 03:53:16 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FbmLezzX0AIgSIf?format=jpg&name=large)
Post by: catastrophe on September 01, 2022, 04:28:20 PM
It’s another great reason to try to budget retiring early if you can, so that you’re still in prime working shape to put in a couple more years if the market ends up sucking right when you were gonna coast.
Post by: DaBigTrain on September 13, 2022, 02:47:13 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on September 13, 2022, 02:56:09 PM
Post by: IPA4Me on September 13, 2022, 03:01:42 PM
Post by: Spracne on September 13, 2022, 03:07:51 PM
Sure, if you want to dollar cost average down. We still have a ways to go to the bottom.
Will you shoot me a text when we get there, or preferably right before? Thanks in advance.
Post by: steve dave on September 13, 2022, 06:04:09 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220913/bc3df388a234a1babe406ec802994a18.jpg)
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Post by: cfbandyman on September 13, 2022, 06:11:25 PM
Post by: bucket on September 13, 2022, 06:44:13 PM
I'll be looking to buy, but I'm not in a hurry to do it.
Post by: XocolateThundarr on September 14, 2022, 08:57:02 AM
(https://airows.com/.image/t_share/MTI5MDAyMDU2ODg2MzE3MDI2/giphy.gif)
Post by: steve dave on September 21, 2022, 12:45:14 PM
https://twitter.com/CarterBWorth/status/1572617280944754691
Post by: steve dave on September 21, 2022, 12:46:23 PM
Post by: steve dave on September 21, 2022, 05:24:23 PM
You guys: Why now steve dave?
Me: Because I’m incredibly bearish and that’s traditionally been as concrete of a bull signal as you can find.
Let’s buy fellas and girl fellas
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Post by: Kat Kid on September 21, 2022, 09:41:07 PM
Me: I’m going bull mode now.When you posted that Carter Braxton Worth crap I got horned up to buy.
You guys: Why now steve dave?
Me: Because I’m incredibly bearish and that’s traditionally been as concrete of a bull signal as you can find.
Let’s buy fellas and girl fellas
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Post by: cfbandyman on September 21, 2022, 09:56:39 PM
Post by: bucket on September 23, 2022, 01:55:14 PM
(https://c.tenor.com/HZJJPr4rQI8AAAAC/everybody-panic.gif)
Post by: sys on September 23, 2022, 03:21:19 PM
Post by: catastrophe on September 23, 2022, 03:33:52 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on September 23, 2022, 08:16:35 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on September 23, 2022, 08:26:47 PM
Post by: ben ji on September 24, 2022, 12:02:52 AM
I have like 20% of my regular IRA in Bonds. Should I sell half and stock up on some sweet sweet equities? Maybe 25% of my bonds to equities for now?
My first investing experience was in like 2010 and stonks had gone down bad but they have only gone up since then.
Usually I rebalance around Thanksgiving every year but is it worth biting the bit and doing it sooner?
Post by: steve dave on September 24, 2022, 06:31:57 AM
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Post by: catastrophe on September 24, 2022, 08:29:38 AM
Post by: Kat Kid on September 24, 2022, 09:06:05 AM
Listen, I have been doing dumb trades myself and not just being in an index fund so I am not close to being perfectly allocated myself but I just don’t see much point in bonds even as a cash equivalent these days.
If you are out on the risk curve with me you can use the s&p 500 as cash or like Berkshire or a solid dividend producer. But again, there are probably people smarter than me that might be ready to buy bonds now.
If you have already accepted the conceit that you are going to “time” the market by “re-allocating” then you might consider lowering your exposure to bonds though as your time horizon is probably far enough out that it should not even be 20%.
Post by: IPA4Me on October 13, 2022, 05:51:13 AM
If you bought this run-up, GTFO until the Fed pivots. They're looking for CPE at 2%. You're going to see some bear market rallies along the way but there will be an overall decline until the Fed achieves its goal of 2%.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221013/00d8de3f4b8fc37bf13e3c33b82ca739.jpg)
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Post by: IPA4Me on October 13, 2022, 06:21:15 AM
We're already starting to see some supply side easing as container shipping rates are dropping. Haven't seen much chatter on port backlogs in a while. I presume we're flowing again. Chip makes are reporting lower demand as well as increased inventories. That will help ease things.
Used car inventory is also increasing. Auction prices have dropped significantly. They've dropped so far that a lot of banks and dealers are not meeting minimum - no sale. You'll see a big write-off in the coming months. 2023 should be a good year to buy a used car.
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Post by: wetwillie on October 13, 2022, 06:28:18 AM
Post by: IPA4Me on October 13, 2022, 06:31:54 AM
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Post by: IPA4Me on October 13, 2022, 07:34:51 AM
Came in hotter again.
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Post by: IPA4Me on October 13, 2022, 07:50:13 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221013/cd2a126d1d52955de7638a81364f18c7.jpg)
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Post by: Justwin on October 13, 2022, 07:58:55 AM
Then expect extreme pain from Fed. They want CPE at 2%.
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What do you mean when you say CPE? Are you referring to the CPI or PCE?
Post by: IPA4Me on October 13, 2022, 08:18:37 AM
Not confused. Typo.Then expect extreme pain from Fed. They want CPE at 2%.
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What do you mean when you say CPE? Are you referring to the CPI or PCE?
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/01/28/the-fed-uses-one-inflation-gauge-as-its-north-star-heres-why.html
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Post by: bucket on October 13, 2022, 02:01:57 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on October 13, 2022, 02:29:00 PM
2023 should be a good year to buy a used car.Definitely agree with this part
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Post by: IPA4Me on October 13, 2022, 03:25:33 PM
In your face, IPA! We're back, baby! :emawkid:Welcome to the bear rally. Pain awaits you.
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Post by: IPA4Me on October 13, 2022, 07:42:04 PM
Follow up. Remember these words as we watch today's bear rally. We're still going the wrong way on inflation. Expect rate hike of 75 (most likely) or 100 (not off the table) bps.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221014/f90d8eacd0ff53d35427a8695f02558a.jpg)Not confused. Typo.Then expect extreme pain from Fed. They want CPE at 2%.
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What do you mean when you say CPE? Are you referring to the CPI or PCE?
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/01/28/the-fed-uses-one-inflation-gauge-as-its-north-star-heres-why.html
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Post by: Justwin on October 13, 2022, 07:57:02 PM
Not confused. Typo.Then expect extreme pain from Fed. They want CPE at 2%.
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What do you mean when you say CPE? Are you referring to the CPI or PCE?
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/01/28/the-fed-uses-one-inflation-gauge-as-its-north-star-heres-why.html
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What is the CPE?
Post by: steve dave on October 13, 2022, 08:11:49 PM
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Post by: IPA4Me on October 13, 2022, 08:26:23 PM
As I said, typo. It's PCE and CPI. We get wrapped up in all the different measurements of our economy. The Fed's focus is on PCE as it is more comprehensive.Not confused. Typo.Then expect extreme pain from Fed. They want CPE at 2%.
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What do you mean when you say CPE? Are you referring to the CPI or PCE?
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/01/28/the-fed-uses-one-inflation-gauge-as-its-north-star-heres-why.html
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What is the CPE?
https://www.callan.com/blog-archive/cpi-vs-pce/
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Post by: IPA4Me on October 13, 2022, 08:37:19 PM
Guys, I have no rough ridin' clue what direction this market of stocks is gonna go short term. This statement goes into Infiniti fyi.Short term: it's anybody's educated guess.
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Long term: we're going back to pre-covid levels. The SPY bounced off 349 this morning. Half way to where we were in 2020.
I made money on the downside this morning before the rally. $RBLX puts ran for a 100% increase in 45 minutes. I scaled out over the run and made 50% on my play.
Tomorrow, is retail sales report. I'm looking at $SPY to pingpong in the morning and I'll play both sides of it if I don't like any individual stock option trades.
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Post by: DQ12 on October 14, 2022, 07:38:26 AM
Guys, I have no rough ridin' clue what direction this market of stocks is gonna go short term. This statement goes into Infiniti fyi.I just keep patting myself on the back for lowering my cost per share while ignoring literally everything else.
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Good job, DQ. I’m so proud of you. You’re doing great hunny.
Post by: Spracne on October 14, 2022, 10:32:12 AM
Post by: IPA4Me on October 14, 2022, 10:42:15 PM
I haven't checked my ira's in like 4 months (check them at least weekly when my stonks are going up).Neither are a good place to be with a short horizon. At your age, you definitely shouldn't be riding 20% in bonds though.
I have like 20% of my regular IRA in Bonds. Should I sell half and stock up on some sweet sweet equities? Maybe 25% of my bonds to equities for now?
My first investing experience was in like 2010 and stonks had gone down bad but they have only gone up since then.
Usually I rebalance around Thanksgiving every year but is it worth biting the bit and doing it sooner?
https://twitter.com/CramerTracker/status/1581009749101129729
Post by: steve dave on October 21, 2022, 12:08:11 PM
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Post by: IPA4Me on October 21, 2022, 06:50:42 PM
https://twitter.com/axios/status/1583504464027131910?s=46&t=K2oHFjBfc4cfPEEH4NEIHQPerfect timing to hammer next year with the new job.
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Post by: steve dave on October 22, 2022, 02:54:09 PM
https://twitter.com/EconomPic/status/1583909663963197440
Post by: michigancat on October 22, 2022, 02:58:05 PM
One of my fav. niche genre's of twitter is the hustle culture chuds posting made up bullshit assuming nobody is going to do any math on it and then actual money people do math and dunk on themDang can't see the original
https://twitter.com/EconomPic/status/1583909663963197440
Post by: steve dave on October 22, 2022, 03:04:14 PM
Post by: michigancat on October 22, 2022, 04:08:05 PM
https://twitter.com/EconomPic/status/1583911388254130176Ha ha those dudes are something else. Addicted to the enter key.
https://twitter.com/Budgetdog_/status/1583915846556348416
https://twitter.com/Budgetdog_/status/1583849400241045504
https://twitter.com/Budgetdog_/status/1583805965798735877
Post by: michigancat on October 24, 2022, 03:22:20 PM
https://twitter.com/austin_rief/status/1584207149051580416
Post by: catastrophe on October 24, 2022, 04:38:42 PM
Post by: michigancat on October 24, 2022, 06:40:37 PM
LOL
https://twitter.com/austin_rief/status/1584207149051580416
He's very good
Quote
A year ago, I was lost.
At 24 years old, I kept wrestling with this question: what is the point of life?
It consumed my every waking moment, and I couldn’t shake the idea that I was wasting my youth with tedious tasks meant nothing.
So one day, I threw caution to the wind and set out on a journey to find the meaning of life for myself.
My travels took me from the mountains of the Patagonia, to the Greek ruins in Athens, to the winding alleyways of Prague and the castles of Scotland.
I saw the gas chambers in Auschwitz, and the Colosseum in Rome. I broke bread with Argentines in Buenos Aires and Swedes in Stockholm.
But still, I yearned for answers.
One dreary night in a Hungarian dive bar, I shared my woes with a local sitting next to me.
He looked me in the eye and said, “Brother, you must head North. North of the Arctic Circle, where the Vikings reigned. There, and only there, will you find your answer.”
My mysterious friend could only be referring to one city: Tromsø, Norway.
In late November, when the sun no longer rose, I made my way North. I set off into the wilderness, where I saw the Aurora Borealis. I took it as a sign that I was on the right path.
I headed into town, where I encountered a massive, blonde-haired man with a long, untrimmed beard.
“This must be the man I was looking for,” I thought.
I walked up to him and said, “Excuse me friend, but I have been looking for you for months. I have traveled 5,000 miles to ask you one question: What is the meaning of life?”
His eyes narrowed as he took a deep breath, grabbed my shoulder, and whispered four profound words…
“To create shareholder value.”
A wave of joy overcamd my soul. Finally, my search for knowledge had reached its end. I could return home at peace, knowing I had found my life’s purpose.
That’s how I ended up in business school, where I plan to land an associate role at a PE firm to drive immense value creation for the next 40 years.
My life’s purpose.
Post by: steve dave on October 24, 2022, 06:47:17 PM
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Post by: Spracne on October 24, 2022, 08:31:49 PM
Post by: IPA4Me on October 26, 2022, 05:10:02 PM
If Apple misses, it going to be a bloody Friday.
Post by: star seed 7 on October 26, 2022, 05:52:05 PM
Post by: catastrophe on October 26, 2022, 06:06:53 PM
Did anyone watch the GME thing on netflix? I forgot all about robinhood shutting off trading. Still insane to me that wasn't considered market manipulation.Did the SEC say it wasn’t? Cause otherwise I’m guessing they’re leisurely investigating and will be for some time.
Post by: wetwillie on October 26, 2022, 06:27:33 PM
Did anyone watch the GME thing on netflix? I forgot all about robinhood shutting off trading. Still insane to me that wasn't considered market manipulation.
I watched it, was pretty decent. Hard to tell what the truth is but my takeaway is that they didn’t have enough liquidity to keep the app open with the trade volume on the app, which feels like it should have got them shut down or fined heavily.
Post by: star seed 7 on October 26, 2022, 06:41:21 PM
Did anyone watch the GME thing on netflix? I forgot all about robinhood shutting off trading. Still insane to me that wasn't considered market manipulation.
I watched it, was pretty decent. Hard to tell what the truth is but my takeaway is that they didn’t have enough liquidity to keep the app open with the trade volume on the app, which feels like it should have got them shut down or fined heavily.
Yes, you should not be allowed to continue being in business after that, even if all the nefarious stuff wasn't true.
Post by: steve dave on October 26, 2022, 07:08:58 PM
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Post by: IPA4Me on October 26, 2022, 07:20:50 PM
Post by: steve dave on October 26, 2022, 08:21:54 PM
Post by: sys on October 26, 2022, 09:16:29 PM
Did anyone watch the GME thing on netflix? I forgot all about robinhood shutting off trading. Still insane to me that wasn't considered market manipulation.Did the SEC say it wasn’t? Cause otherwise I’m guessing they’re leisurely investigating and will be for some time.
it wasn't market manipulation or anything akin to it. there were some pretty good explanations of it posted at the time, in this thread afaik.
Post by: catastrophe on October 26, 2022, 11:08:21 PM
I misread the post. I meant the WallStreetBets guys, not Robinhood.Did anyone watch the GME thing on netflix? I forgot all about robinhood shutting off trading. Still insane to me that wasn't considered market manipulation.Did the SEC say it wasn’t? Cause otherwise I’m guessing they’re leisurely investigating and will be for some time.
it wasn't market manipulation or anything akin to it. there were some pretty good explanations of it posted at the time, in this thread afaik.
Post by: steve dave on October 27, 2022, 07:03:01 AM
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Post by: steve dave on October 27, 2022, 03:12:14 PM
:sdeek:
Post by: DaBigTrain on October 27, 2022, 06:14:26 PM
Post by: ben ji on October 27, 2022, 06:19:46 PM
That's why I'm glad I have tangible goods like marginal farmland in western KS that's running out of water and like 20 boxes of shotgun shells to go along with my STONKS.
Post by: Spracne on October 27, 2022, 06:22:37 PM
Post by: steve dave on October 27, 2022, 09:01:01 PM
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Post by: sonofdaxjones on October 27, 2022, 10:50:40 PM
Plus more guns than I do. Problem is, they're all hunting weapons, so we can't really go tactical and all that stuff. So we'll probably just barricade ourselves in.
Post by: catastrophe on October 27, 2022, 10:54:26 PM
Its almost like making the money machine go BRRRRRTTTTT for 10 years might lead to things being over valued.
That's why I'm glad I have tangible goods like marginal farmland in western KS that's running out of water and like 20 boxes of shotgun shells to go along with my STONKS.
This exact scenario is why I bought an inflation-proof asset like crypto.
Post by: bucket on October 28, 2022, 08:59:39 AM
Post by: steve dave on October 28, 2022, 09:15:41 AM
I bought some AMZN this morning. I'll probably continue to buy it for a while.Good buy imo
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Post by: steve dave on November 02, 2022, 12:49:46 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fgk4eqEXoAExJj6?format=jpg&name=medium)
Post by: wetwillie on November 02, 2022, 01:04:11 PM
Post by: steve dave on November 02, 2022, 01:05:28 PM
:surprised:
Post by: steve dave on November 02, 2022, 01:05:54 PM
Post by: steve dave on November 02, 2022, 02:02:54 PM
:surprised:
(https://cdn.britannica.com/86/117086-050-81460DD9/Red-tailed-hawk.jpg)
Post by: steve dave on November 02, 2022, 02:07:10 PM
One more rate hike before EOY and then they wash their hands of it for a while @steve dave ?
Quote from: jerome "some of you will suffer" powell just now
We have a ways to go on rates...and it's premature to talk about a pause
Post by: wetwillie on November 02, 2022, 02:09:14 PM
Post by: steve dave on November 02, 2022, 02:14:12 PM
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Post by: Phil Titola on November 02, 2022, 04:41:45 PM
I bought some AMZN this morning. I'll probably continue to buy it for a while.
Did you know, I bought AMZN stock at $12 once. Obv very little or I would be on a beach permanently w/o internets.
Post by: bucket on November 02, 2022, 06:20:22 PM
I bought some AMZN this morning. I'll probably continue to buy it for a while.
Did you know, I bought AMZN stock at $12 once. Obv very little or I would be on a beach permanently w/o internets.
I bought and sold a bunch of MRNA before the pandemic when it was below $20. The only thing that makes me feel better is I know I would have sold at $28-$40.
Post by: steve dave on November 03, 2022, 08:34:54 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fgoi5aMXwAIVOtW?format=jpg&name=large)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fgoi5kMWQAAsbA4?format=jpg&name=large)
:sdeek: :sdeek: :sdeek: :sdeek: :sdeek: :sdeek:
Post by: IPA4Me on November 18, 2022, 07:34:06 PM
why do you use both td and ib? out of curiousity.One for holding long positions and one for trading options.
I also prefer the charting on TOS (TD owned platform) over IB. Better fill rates in high volatility on IB though.
Post by: steve dave on November 18, 2022, 07:37:08 PM
why do you use both td and ib? out of curiousity.One for holding long positions and one for trading options.
I also prefer the charting on TOS (TD owned platform) over IB. Better fill rates in high volatility on IB though.
got it. I do sort of the same. retirement on one platform. fun on the other. mullet style.
Post by: Brock Landers on January 04, 2023, 02:04:57 PM
I bought I-bonds this morning. The max you can buy is $10,000. The interest rate you receive is a fixed rate plus the inflation rate which they set twice a year. The current rate is 9.62%. Anyone else do this?
I was gonna throw at least $5k into this but then got lazy/forgot about it. Just looked at the current rates and they're at 6.89%
Post by: Stupid Fitz on January 04, 2023, 03:22:22 PM
I bought I-bonds this morning. The max you can buy is $10,000. The interest rate you receive is a fixed rate plus the inflation rate which they set twice a year. The current rate is 9.62%. Anyone else do this?
I was gonna throw at least $5k into this but then got lazy/forgot about it. Just looked at the current rates and they're at 6.89%
still pretty good for cash you aren't doing anything with.
Post by: catastrophe on January 04, 2023, 07:31:11 PM
It changes every 6 months regardless so don’t beat yourself up. IMO they’re much better short term investments than long term (i.e., if you’re planning to hold onto it for more than 15-20 years before selling). Long term you’re practically guaranteed to do better in the S&P 500.I bought I-bonds this morning. The max you can buy is $10,000. The interest rate you receive is a fixed rate plus the inflation rate which they set twice a year. The current rate is 9.62%. Anyone else do this?
I was gonna throw at least $5k into this but then got lazy/forgot about it. Just looked at the current rates and they're at 6.89%
Post by: bucket on January 04, 2023, 08:27:43 PM
It changes every 6 months regardless so don’t beat yourself up. IMO they’re much better short term investments than long term (i.e., if you’re planning to hold onto it for more than 15-20 years before selling). Long term you’re practically guaranteed to do better in the S&P 500.I bought I-bonds this morning. The max you can buy is $10,000. The interest rate you receive is a fixed rate plus the inflation rate which they set twice a year. The current rate is 9.62%. Anyone else do this?
I was gonna throw at least $5k into this but then got lazy/forgot about it. Just looked at the current rates and they're at 6.89%
Ya, I just did it while the market was funky. I wish I had done it sooner like SD. Pleased with the new rate!
Post by: WillieWatanabe on February 21, 2023, 11:33:28 AM
Can we rollover hers to my Roth? or is that not allowed?
What would be the best option since she doesn't have any other Roths to rollover to?
We're talking around 15k.
Post by: DQ12 on February 21, 2023, 11:37:56 AM
My wife had a Roth 403(b) at her previous job. Her new job's retirement is not a roth.I think you can just roll it over, but the 403(b) will basically just be two buckets...roth and non-roth.
Can we rollover hers to my Roth? or is that not allowed?
What would be the best option since she doesn't have any other Roths to rollover to?
We're talking around 15k.
I just tansitioned my 401 to the roth option, and they said that the non-roth portion would stay non-roth, but future contributions would be taxed-roth style. I'll pay tax on the non-roth portion when distributed or whatever.
I'd have her talk to HR or the administrator or whoever just to make sure.
Post by: steve dave on February 21, 2023, 01:34:56 PM
Yeah, they will just lump that stuff together. I have some old Roth 401k contributions in my 401k and it takes some digging to see where it is.My wife had a Roth 403(b) at her previous job. Her new job's retirement is not a roth.I think you can just roll it over, but the 403(b) will basically just be two buckets...roth and non-roth.
Can we rollover hers to my Roth? or is that not allowed?
What would be the best option since she doesn't have any other Roths to rollover to?
We're talking around 15k.
I just tansitioned my 401 to the roth option, and they said that the non-roth portion would stay non-roth, but future contributions would be taxed-roth style. I'll pay tax on the non-roth portion when distributed or whatever.
I'd have her talk to HR or the administrator or whoever just to make sure.
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Post by: catastrophe on February 21, 2023, 02:25:39 PM
I do believe that you have no obligation to roll an old work retirement plan into a new job, though. I think the usual play is to roll the old Roth account into a regular Roth IRA (like through Vanguard) that you can control.
Post by: WillieWatanabe on February 21, 2023, 02:38:08 PM
I think the employer has a fair amount of leeway in what they offer, so they’re going to be the ultimate authority on what the options are as far as Roth vs. traditional contributions and rollovers.
I do believe that you have no obligation to roll an old work retirement plan into a new job, though. I think the usual play is to roll the old Roth account into a regular Roth IRA (like through Vanguard) that you can control.
I'll have ms. ww talk with HR, which I'm sure she'll love. I tried handling this through the investment company site chat, they said it should be possible but they just told me to call the rollover dept.
I have regular Roth IRA but my wife doesn't.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 21, 2023, 02:54:09 PM
I think the employer has a fair amount of leeway in what they offer, so they’re going to be the ultimate authority on what the options are as far as Roth vs. traditional contributions and rollovers.
I do believe that you have no obligation to roll an old work retirement plan into a new job, though. I think the usual play is to roll the old Roth account into a regular Roth IRA (like through Vanguard) that you can control.
I'll have ms. ww talk with HR, which I'm sure she'll love. I tried handling this through the investment company site chat, they said it should be possible but they just told me to call the rollover dept.
I have regular Roth IRA but my wife doesn't.
Just roll to vanguard so you can control it and have minimal fees. You can't combine with yours.
Post by: IPA4Me on February 21, 2023, 05:25:28 PM
This is the correct answer. Just did it myself.I think the employer has a fair amount of leeway in what they offer, so they’re going to be the ultimate authority on what the options are as far as Roth vs. traditional contributions and rollovers.
I do believe that you have no obligation to roll an old work retirement plan into a new job, though. I think the usual play is to roll the old Roth account into a regular Roth IRA (like through Vanguard) that you can control.
I'll have ms. ww talk with HR, which I'm sure she'll love. I tried handling this through the investment company site chat, they said it should be possible but they just told me to call the rollover dept.
I have regular Roth IRA but my wife doesn't.
Just roll to vanguard so you can control it and have minimal fees. You can't combine with yours.
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Post by: michigancat on February 22, 2023, 06:28:04 AM
Post by: WillieWatanabe on February 22, 2023, 09:11:31 AM
Why wouldn't she open a personal Roth and roll into that?
I've come to find out she has quite a few accounts spread across different companies (previous jobs, non-retirement account her dad set up for her, non-retirement account her grandpa set up for her) with not a great deal of money in each and no contributions coming into them. Now that she has a good stable job, my goal was to consolidate and simply things and then decide how much money to put where. So that is why I was hesitant to open another account.
But it seems it may be best to open a personal roth. Then she has her current employer retirement and then her consolidated non-retirement accounts.
Post by: michigancat on February 22, 2023, 09:23:58 AM
Why wouldn't she open a personal Roth and roll into that?
I've come to find out she has quite a few accounts spread across different companies (previous jobs, non-retirement account her dad set up for her, non-retirement account her grandpa set up for her) with not a great deal of money in each and no contributions coming into them. Now that she has a good stable job, my goal was to consolidate and simply things and then decide how much money to put where. So that is why I was hesitant to open another account.
But it seems it may be best to open a personal roth. Then she has her current employer retirement and then her consolidated non-retirement accounts.
Yeah so she should open a Vanguard account and consolidate everything there in her name. Open a Roth, a traditional IRA account (if she has funds in a company 401kor other retirement fund) , and a pure investment account and move everything there. She'll change jobs again, it's gonna be easier to transfer to an account in her name.
Post by: WillieWatanabe on February 22, 2023, 12:43:58 PM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 23, 2023, 08:57:57 AM
Post by: catastrophe on February 23, 2023, 09:13:46 AM
Keep in mind I did this after a cash out refi and it turned out to be a horrible decision since it was like the very top of the market (I still haven’t gotten back to even), but over time I think it’s the soundest strategy.
Post by: DQ12 on February 23, 2023, 09:23:07 AM
Someone asked me what I would do with a lump sum of cash right now. I'm honestly not sure. Normally my default would be just throw it all in an S and P index and let it roll if you don't have bad debt and won't need it for a while. Would you half it with ibonds and S and P? Just DCA it monthly in S and P? It was an interesting thought exercise. What's the consensus here?DCA into S&P fund is my go to. Either that or put it into my pocket if I get a wild hair about buying some real estate or something. But the former would be what my head told me to do.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 23, 2023, 09:26:23 AM
Someone asked me what I would do with a lump sum of cash right now. I'm honestly not sure. Normally my default would be just throw it all in an S and P index and let it roll if you don't have bad debt and won't need it for a while. Would you half it with ibonds and S and P? Just DCA it monthly in S and P? It was an interesting thought exercise. What's the consensus here?DCA into S&P fund is my go to. Either that or put it into my pocket if I get a wild hair about buying some real estate or something. But the former would be what my head told me to do.
After maxing tax advantage stuff, I think this is what I would do too. Online savings are like 4% right now so sitting and going from there to S&P each month would prob be smart.
Post by: michigancat on February 23, 2023, 09:46:57 AM
I don't think DCA makes sense. If it's going to eventually all go into the stock market for a while, just put it all in.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 23, 2023, 10:59:41 AM
my guy has me put all windfalls in VTSAX (total stock market). A little more aggressive than the S&P.
I don't think DCA makes sense. If it's going to eventually all go into the stock market for a while, just put it all in.
I go back and forth on this. I guess it depends on your timeframe and view of the market during that period. If you think the market as a whole will be down over the period, DCA may make sense, but if your period is 5-10 years its prob not worth the trouble and you should just throw it all in.
Post by: steve dave on February 23, 2023, 11:31:41 AM
my guy has me put all windfalls in VTSAX (total stock market). A little more aggressive than the S&P.DCA is normally a bad play. Dump it in.
I don't think DCA makes sense. If it's going to eventually all go into the stock market for a while, just put it all in.
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Post by: steve dave on February 23, 2023, 11:32:30 AM
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Post by: DQ12 on February 23, 2023, 11:35:37 AM
It's more conservative for sure. I think it makes sense to avoid "timing the market" and it's what my dad (elite financial guy in my brain) told me i should do once so that's what i do.my guy has me put all windfalls in VTSAX (total stock market). A little more aggressive than the S&P.DCA is normally a bad play. Dump it in.
I don't think DCA makes sense. If it's going to eventually all go into the stock market for a while, just put it all in.
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What I don't think I'd do is dump it into a tax deferred account (401/IRA) because if I just got some fat rough ridin' stacks all of a sudden I'd want it to be a bit more liquid. But that's just me.
Post by: steve dave on February 23, 2023, 12:20:18 PM
It's more conservative for sure. I think it makes sense to avoid "timing the market" and it's what my dad (elite financial guy in my brain) told me i should do once so that's what i do.my guy has me put all windfalls in VTSAX (total stock market). A little more aggressive than the S&P.DCA is normally a bad play. Dump it in.
I don't think DCA makes sense. If it's going to eventually all go into the stock market for a while, just put it all in.
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What I don't think I'd do is dump it into a tax deferred account (401/IRA) because if I just got some fat rough ridin' stacks all of a sudden I'd want it to be a bit more liquid. But that's just me.
Just read this the other day, timely
Quote
Dollar cost averaging will underperform lump sum investing for most asset classes most of the time.
........
When deciding between dollar cost averaging vs lump sum, it is almost always better to lump sum (invest it now), even on a risk-adjusted basis.
https://ofdollarsanddata.com/dollar-cost-averaging-vs-lump-sum/
Post by: DQ12 on February 23, 2023, 12:40:05 PM
i feel like you're discounting the advice my dad (who i already mentioned is a very elite investment mind) gave me a long time ago that i may be misremembering.It's more conservative for sure. I think it makes sense to avoid "timing the market" and it's what my dad (elite financial guy in my brain) told me i should do once so that's what i do.my guy has me put all windfalls in VTSAX (total stock market). A little more aggressive than the S&P.DCA is normally a bad play. Dump it in.
I don't think DCA makes sense. If it's going to eventually all go into the stock market for a while, just put it all in.
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What I don't think I'd do is dump it into a tax deferred account (401/IRA) because if I just got some fat rough ridin' stacks all of a sudden I'd want it to be a bit more liquid. But that's just me.
Just read this the other day, timelyQuoteDollar cost averaging will underperform lump sum investing for most asset classes most of the time.
........
When deciding between dollar cost averaging vs lump sum, it is almost always better to lump sum (invest it now), even on a risk-adjusted basis.
https://ofdollarsanddata.com/dollar-cost-averaging-vs-lump-sum/
Post by: steve dave on February 23, 2023, 12:41:01 PM
Post by: kim carnes on February 23, 2023, 01:16:11 PM
Post by: michigancat on February 23, 2023, 01:18:57 PM
It is almost always better, almostIMO if you know when it lump isn't better you should just dump it all in at the best possible time instead of DCA (and get out at the right times too).
So in a world you don't know for sure you should always lump sum.
Post by: steve dave on February 23, 2023, 02:03:58 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230223/5bbc3013d8a21e8ee9e8bfc43157eca3.jpg)It is almost always better, almostIMO if you know when it lump isn't better you should just dump it all in at the best possible time instead of DCA (and get out at the right times too).
So in a world you don't know for sure you should always lump sum.
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Post by: DQ12 on February 23, 2023, 02:30:05 PM
Post by: sys on February 23, 2023, 02:33:56 PM
Someone asked me what I would do with a lump sum of cash right now... Would you half it with ibonds and S and P?
you wouldn't be able to put half into ibonds, because you're limited to 10k/year.
personally, i would put half or something like that into bonds. big question would be the duration. irl, i have a decent chunk of money in just stupid depreciating cash because i haven't decided what to do with it/been to lazy to move it anywhere.
Post by: steve dave on February 23, 2023, 03:36:06 PM
Just say you’re DCA’ing. Smash that like and follow button for more finance hacks like this.Someone asked me what I would do with a lump sum of cash right now... Would you half it with ibonds and S and P?
you wouldn't be able to put half into ibonds, because you're limited to 10k/year.
personally, i would put half or something like that into bonds. big question would be the duration. irl, i have a decent chunk of money in just stupid depreciating cash because i haven't decided what to do with it/been to lazy to move it anywhere.
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Post by: Brock Landers on February 23, 2023, 03:46:43 PM
I'll never stop DCA'ing no matter what you guys say. :don'tcare:
Ain't no party like a DCA party
cuz the DCA party don't stop
Post by: IPA4Me on February 25, 2023, 10:46:56 AM
Lump sum. Depends on your timeline and market thoughts.
Personally, I'm DCA with my 401K and day trading my rollover. I'm only holding QQQ and SPY shorts more than overnight as I don't believe we've hit the market bottom.
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Post by: steve dave on March 10, 2023, 11:07:00 AM
Hello Finance goEMAW moguls. I am wondering if you guys have any resources/recommendations to maybe get into the markets. I am very new to the landscape. Wondering if there were some books or resources. I now have some dollars. Trying to enter at the ground level maybe build a little portfolio.
Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
Good mindset book, less about strategies of what to do with your money but more about understanding what will make you happy and why when it comes to money:
https://www.amazon.com/Psychology-Money-Timeless-lessons-happiness-ebook/dp/B084HJSJJ2/ref=sr_1_1?gclid=Cj0KCQiAx6ugBhCcARIsAGNmMbhuR-ljHAJ4bi7Y7q7HIVBPc6_7TW0ehaZ4t7U5Xqeg9qCR9-sNjwQaAsi2EALw_wcB&hvadid=241638696189&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9024532&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=455747722884979094&hvtargid=kwd-816731825&hydadcr=21903_10171041&keywords=the+psychology+of+money&qid=1678467978&sr=8-1
Can probably just read the cover and get the idea:
https://www.amazon.com/Just-Keep-Buying-Proven-wealth-ebook/dp/B09FYHZXBN/ref=sr_1_1?gclid=Cj0KCQiAx6ugBhCcARIsAGNmMbj2qf4zRAvIsH_BjouF4myVATdg0mWDtTmJD31vIXwSEAQG59PEOg4aAr4eEALw_wcB&hvadid=570460113000&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9024532&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=3750560504436305829&hvtargid=kwd-1431082822979&hydadcr=20138_13319362&keywords=just+keep+buying&qid=1678468432&sr=8-1
Someone recommended Ben to me on here a long time ago and he is very good. Works at the same firm as the author above so probably getting some feedback loop here. His "Animal Spirits" podcast is a good listen too and comes out every Wednesday plus weekly shows with guests that I listen to depending on if the topic interests me.
https://awealthofcommonsense.com/
Do you have an employer sponsored retirement plan? If so what is it and how are you contributing? IRA? If so same questions? Pension, etc.? Already have a brokerage account? What are your goals? What is your risk appetite? Like, how risky you wanting to get here? I've got some really pure ideas for how to lose money SUPER fast so need to know this before I give you actual NOT financial advice.
Post by: catastrophe on March 10, 2023, 12:19:21 PM
After you get a little more comfortable (or if you want to just skip to the "intermediate" low-risk investing) Vanguard is probably the gold standard buying VTI or VOO.
That said, like SD is getting at make sure you understand all the tax-advantaged options available. HSA is probably the sneakiest one if you have that through work.
Post by: michigancat on March 10, 2023, 01:50:18 PM
Betterment is unnecessary.
Post by: bucket on March 10, 2023, 02:09:55 PM
our guy greg just needs to put as much as he can into an S&P 500 or total stock market index fund in an employee retirement plan or Roth IRA.
Betterment is unnecessary.
My money guy says ETF’s are better for tax purposes than index funds. So jot that down and invest in ETF’s, Greg.
Post by: steve dave on March 10, 2023, 02:46:44 PM
I’ve got some important news for your money guy about what index fund means and/or what an ETF is…..our guy greg just needs to put as much as he can into an S&P 500 or total stock market index fund in an employee retirement plan or Roth IRA.
Betterment is unnecessary.
My money guy says ETF’s are better for tax purposes than index funds. So jot that down and invest in ETF’s, Greg.
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Post by: wetwillie on March 10, 2023, 02:53:22 PM
Post by: bucket on March 10, 2023, 03:01:11 PM
Post by: catastrophe on March 10, 2023, 03:11:21 PM
our guy greg just needs to put as much as he can into an S&P 500 or total stock market index fund in an employee retirement plan or Roth IRA.Betterment is unnecessary UNLESS you’re interested in some easy to use financial projection/retirement estimate tools on top of just growing a nest egg.
Betterment is unnecessary.
The tax loss harvesting in Betterment has personally saved me more than I’ve paid in fees, but I will say the more conservative skew of its investment advice has made me miss out on some upside I would have captured by just buying S&P 500.
If I had to do it all again I’d probably use Vanguard for almost everything but just put like $500 in Betterment to use the advice tools.
And I wouldn’t have bought any crypto. WOOF I hope that bounces back one of these decades.
Post by: michigancat on March 10, 2023, 03:19:03 PM
our guy greg just needs to put as much as he can into an S&P 500 or total stock market index fund in an employee retirement plan or Roth IRA.Betterment is unnecessary UNLESS you’re interested in some easy to use financial projection/retirement estimate tools on top of just growing a nest egg.
Betterment is unnecessary.
The tax loss harvesting in Betterment has personally saved me more than I’ve paid in fees, but I will say the more conservative skew of its investment advice has made me miss out on some upside I would have captured by just buying S&P 500.
If I had to do it all again I’d probably use Vanguard for almost everything but just put like $500 in Betterment to use the advice tools.
And I wouldn’t have bought any crypto. WOOF I hope that bounces back one of these decades.
That may be true for you our guy Greg definitely does not need to worry about tax loss harvesting or even more diversification than an index fund provides. He needs to throw money into retirement accounts as soon at possible
Post by: sys on March 10, 2023, 08:22:39 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 10, 2023, 08:28:06 PM
hit a few limit orders today, so my pile of stonks gets bigger even as my pile of money i could sell them for gets smaller.
oh man, I never do limit orders. when I failingly try to catch a falling knife (OFTEN) I want to be fully aware it's falling and be in the moment reaching out to grab it. no robot is taking that away from me.
Post by: sys on March 10, 2023, 08:32:54 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 10, 2023, 08:35:03 PM
Post by: KITNfury on March 10, 2023, 09:07:54 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 10, 2023, 09:11:31 PM
Is this the right thread to ask how to roll multiple 401ks into 1? :dunno:
Roll them all into an IRA other than the current one.
Post by: michigancat on March 10, 2023, 09:34:12 PM
Is this the right thread to ask how to roll multiple 401ks into 1? :dunno:Start with the account you want to roll them into and see how they can help you.
It's a pain to consolidate, and it's a pain by design imo.
Post by: steve dave on March 10, 2023, 10:04:34 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 10, 2023, 10:08:57 PM
https://twitter.com/dhtoomey/status/1634355762951593986
Post by: catastrophe on March 10, 2023, 11:42:48 PM
Once you no longer work there I don't know that there is any reason to keep them in that format and an IRA would have a lot of flexibility advantages. Like any boring guy I'd suggest Vanguard. Unless you just want a single account in which you overcoming the headaches of getting the old ones into your new one is your option.Yes switching jobs is a great opportunity to get those funds into a lower cost account that you can completely control.
Post by: tdaver on March 12, 2023, 03:19:32 PM
Once you no longer work there I don't know that there is any reason to keep them in that format and an IRA would have a lot of flexibility advantages. Like any boring guy I'd suggest Vanguard. Unless you just want a single account in which you overcoming the headaches of getting the old ones into your new one is your option.Yes switching jobs is a great opportunity to get those funds into a lower cost account that you can completely control.
My old 401k plan has excellent super low cost fund options. Better than my current plan. Also, switching to an IRA will make back door roth contributions (if you see that in your future) more complicated and require paying some taxes on it each conversion. So I left mine in the old 401k.
Post by: BW on March 15, 2023, 08:39:18 PM
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Post by: steve dave on March 15, 2023, 09:57:22 PM
Any recommendations for money guys in or around KC? Have talked to three. Not sold on any yet.Just post on gE and let our braintrust give you NOT FINANCIAL ADVICE
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Post by: wetwillie on March 15, 2023, 10:03:44 PM
Post by: bucket on March 15, 2023, 10:23:58 PM
What do money guys do? All the ones I know just put money into the same stuff the average Joe has access to anyway.
I recently changed jobs so I met with mine to have them move my 401k from my previously employer into the one with my new employer. They're both through Fidelity. I also asked about t-bills, which I've never bought, and VTSAX which michigancat mentioned.
Post by: WillieWatanabe on March 15, 2023, 10:39:23 PM
What do money guys do? All the ones I know just put money into the same stuff the average Joe has access to anyway.
I recently changed jobs so I met with mine to have them move my 401k from my previously employer into the one with my new employer. They're both through Fidelity. I also asked about t-bills, which I've never bought, and VTSAX which michigancat mentioned.
he getting a commission or charge a flat fee?
Post by: sys on March 15, 2023, 10:46:34 PM
Post by: Spracne on March 15, 2023, 11:01:24 PM
Any recommendations for money guys in or around KC? Have talked to three. Not sold on any yet.Just post on gE and let our braintrust give you NOT FINANCIAL ADVICE
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Put it all into SOL and SHIB. That's what stevedave had me do, and he'd never steer me wrong, as my fiduciary.
Post by: tdaver on March 15, 2023, 11:20:11 PM
What do money guys do? All the ones I know just put money into the same stuff the average Joe has access to anyway.
If they’re good, they will do average joe stuff. Unfortunately a lot of them will waste your money on high load, high expense crap so that they get a good commission.
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 15, 2023, 11:20:33 PM
I advised against it, but what do I know.Any recommendations for money guys in or around KC? Have talked to three. Not sold on any yet.Just post on gE and let our braintrust give you NOT FINANCIAL ADVICE
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Put it all into SOL and SHIB. That's what stevedave had me do, and he'd never steer me wrong, as my fiduciary.
Post by: michigancat on March 16, 2023, 07:03:07 AM
What do money guys do? All the ones I know just put money into the same stuff the average Joe has access to anyway.What got me started was I got some company equity and I didn't know how to deal with it.They helped me with that along with changing my retirement funds and investing beyond tax advantaged accounts. They talked us through our life goals - things like where we wanted to live and how important owning a house was, kids,etc. He also helps with life changes through a financial lens - moving, job changes, going back to school. He encouraged us to get a will which we didn't have previously, analyzed life insurance, renters insurance, auto insurance and had us make some tweaks and gives us "homework" to do after every meeting.
It seems silly but it's reassuring to have someone who sees how a bunch of folks are doing and just reassure you that you're doing fine. Also kind of silly but it's easier for someone else to tell my wife what to do with her money than it is for me to tell her.
I could have done everything they do on my own but I definitely wouldn't have.
Post by: michigancat on March 16, 2023, 07:03:41 AM
Post by: steve dave on March 16, 2023, 07:42:57 AM
What do money guys do? All the ones I know just put money into the same stuff the average Joe has access to anyway.What got me started was I got some company equity and I didn't know how to deal with it.They helped me with that along with changing my retirement funds and investing beyond tax advantaged accounts. They talked us through our life goals - things like where we wanted to live and how important owning a house was, kids,etc. He also helps with life changes through a financial lens - moving, job changes, going back to school. He encouraged us to get a will which we didn't have previously, analyzed life insurance, renters insurance, auto insurance and had us make some tweaks and gives us "homework" to do after every meeting.
It seems silly but it's reassuring to have someone who sees how a bunch of folks are doing and just reassure you that you're doing fine. Also kind of silly but it's easier for someone else to tell my wife what to do with her money than it is for me to tell her.
I could have done everything they do on my own but I definitely wouldn't have.
Yeah, I think it's really good for couples where money is a difficult conversation or they don't know or want to do homework on it (NOT SAYING THIS IS YOU MICHIGANCAT). A lot of people treat money as some taboo subject or have some really terrible emotional trauma from growing up in a family that made money a root of their unhappiness or relationship issues. My wife is like that, but thankfully she just tells me to deal with it and outside of raising kids it's my only hobby. She makes a decent amount of money but really has no concept of it. Or any concept of what we save, invest in, etc. She told me she would like to have $X in each childs 529 because that's important to her and I told her that made sense and I am making it happen. I tell her what to do with her employer plans and she does it. That may be a bad situation for us if something happens to me but we have enough life insurance and I've documented where and what I'm doing (and also kat kid knows as the failsafe) that she and the kids will be just fine.
OT. speaking of 529s the new plan change to roll them into retirement if they aren't spent is pretty good and chill.
Post by: wetwillie on March 16, 2023, 08:13:17 AM
What do money guys do? All the ones I know just put money into the same stuff the average Joe has access to anyway.What got me started was I got some company equity and I didn't know how to deal with it.They helped me with that along with changing my retirement funds and investing beyond tax advantaged accounts. They talked us through our life goals - things like where we wanted to live and how important owning a house was, kids,etc. He also helps with life changes through a financial lens - moving, job changes, going back to school. He encouraged us to get a will which we didn't have previously, analyzed life insurance, renters insurance, auto insurance and had us make some tweaks and gives us "homework" to do after every meeting.
It seems silly but it's reassuring to have someone who sees how a bunch of folks are doing and just reassure you that you're doing fine. Also kind of silly but it's easier for someone else to tell my wife what to do with her money than it is for me to tell her.
I could have done everything they do on my own but I definitely wouldn't have.
You have a good financial guy, hang on to that one.
Post by: Kat Kid on March 16, 2023, 08:22:12 AM
Post by: catastrophe on March 16, 2023, 09:01:09 AM
Tell me more about the 529 thing. Is it being proposed?What do money guys do? All the ones I know just put money into the same stuff the average Joe has access to anyway.What got me started was I got some company equity and I didn't know how to deal with it.They helped me with that along with changing my retirement funds and investing beyond tax advantaged accounts. They talked us through our life goals - things like where we wanted to live and how important owning a house was, kids,etc. He also helps with life changes through a financial lens - moving, job changes, going back to school. He encouraged us to get a will which we didn't have previously, analyzed life insurance, renters insurance, auto insurance and had us make some tweaks and gives us "homework" to do after every meeting.
It seems silly but it's reassuring to have someone who sees how a bunch of folks are doing and just reassure you that you're doing fine. Also kind of silly but it's easier for someone else to tell my wife what to do with her money than it is for me to tell her.
I could have done everything they do on my own but I definitely wouldn't have.
Yeah, I think it's really good for couples where money is a difficult conversation or they don't know or want to do homework on it (NOT SAYING THIS IS YOU MICHIGANCAT). A lot of people treat money as some taboo subject or have some really terrible emotional trauma from growing up in a family that made money a root of their unhappiness or relationship issues. My wife is like that, but thankfully she just tells me to deal with it and outside of raising kids it's my only hobby. She makes a decent amount of money but really has no concept of it. Or any concept of what we save, invest in, etc. She told me she would like to have $X in each childs 529 because that's important to her and I told her that made sense and I am making it happen. I tell her what to do with her employer plans and she does it. That may be a bad situation for us if something happens to me but we have enough life insurance and I've documented where and what I'm doing (and also kat kid knows as the failsafe) that she and the kids will be just fine.
OT. speaking of 529s the new plan change to roll them into retirement if they aren't spent is pretty good and chill.
Post by: bucket on March 16, 2023, 09:08:46 AM
What do money guys do? All the ones I know just put money into the same stuff the average Joe has access to anyway.
I recently changed jobs so I met with mine to have them move my 401k from my previously employer into the one with my new employer. They're both through Fidelity. I also asked about t-bills, which I've never bought, and VTSAX which michigancat mentioned.
he getting a commission or charge a flat fee?
Nothing. It's just some Fidelity rep through my office.
Post by: steve dave on March 16, 2023, 09:10:26 AM
Tell me more about the 529 thing. Is it being proposed?What do money guys do? All the ones I know just put money into the same stuff the average Joe has access to anyway.What got me started was I got some company equity and I didn't know how to deal with it.They helped me with that along with changing my retirement funds and investing beyond tax advantaged accounts. They talked us through our life goals - things like where we wanted to live and how important owning a house was, kids,etc. He also helps with life changes through a financial lens - moving, job changes, going back to school. He encouraged us to get a will which we didn't have previously, analyzed life insurance, renters insurance, auto insurance and had us make some tweaks and gives us "homework" to do after every meeting.
It seems silly but it's reassuring to have someone who sees how a bunch of folks are doing and just reassure you that you're doing fine. Also kind of silly but it's easier for someone else to tell my wife what to do with her money than it is for me to tell her.
I could have done everything they do on my own but I definitely wouldn't have.
Yeah, I think it's really good for couples where money is a difficult conversation or they don't know or want to do homework on it (NOT SAYING THIS IS YOU MICHIGANCAT). A lot of people treat money as some taboo subject or have some really terrible emotional trauma from growing up in a family that made money a root of their unhappiness or relationship issues. My wife is like that, but thankfully she just tells me to deal with it and outside of raising kids it's my only hobby. She makes a decent amount of money but really has no concept of it. Or any concept of what we save, invest in, etc. She told me she would like to have $X in each childs 529 because that's important to her and I told her that made sense and I am making it happen. I tell her what to do with her employer plans and she does it. That may be a bad situation for us if something happens to me but we have enough life insurance and I've documented where and what I'm doing (and also kat kid knows as the failsafe) that she and the kids will be just fine.
OT. speaking of 529s the new plan change to roll them into retirement if they aren't spent is pretty good and chill.
lotta restrictions though. capped at $35k. Still a nice change.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/23/tax-free-rollovers-from-529-plans-to-roth-iras-may-be-allowed-in-2024.html
Post by: steve dave on March 16, 2023, 09:24:09 AM
Post by: DQ12 on March 16, 2023, 10:27:29 AM
That may be a bad situation for us if something happens to me...My will attorney set up a bunch of crap and like "TO DO" lists if something happens to me (or both of us) that my wife (or trust executor) will put into effect as failsafes to make sure wife/kids are properly taken care of. I really appreciated that.
Post by: steve dave on March 16, 2023, 10:30:47 AM
That may be a bad situation for us if something happens to me...My will attorney set up a bunch of crap and like "TO DO" lists if something happens to me (or both of us) that my wife (or trust executor) will put into effect as failsafes to make sure wife/kids are properly taken care of. I really appreciated that.
I'll see your attorney's "TO DO" list and raise him my "shared google doc"
:gocho:
Post by: GregKSU1027 on March 16, 2023, 10:57:56 AM
I just paid taxes to the IRS for the first time in my life. I have finally arrived.Samesies and it rough ridin' sucks :th_twocents:
Post by: KITNfury on March 17, 2023, 08:52:58 AM
as a general rule if your "money person" is telling you what to invest in you should run away. if they're doing stuff like what Rusty describes you probably have a good one. if they ever say the words "whole life" or "annuity" or "the market is going to..." you should call the cops.
In my world, plenty of people use whole life for the "infinite banking" or the "be your own bank" thingamajig and they swear by it. Then there are others that say it's a terrible. So I'm always on the fence.
Post by: tdaver on March 17, 2023, 11:03:49 AM
I just paid taxes to the IRS for the first time in my life. I have finally arrived.Samesies and it rough ridin' sucks :th_twocents:
First time first time or first time paying extra after filing?
Post by: BW on March 17, 2023, 08:53:27 PM
Another company has promised some opportunities in private equity that aren't available to the general public.
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Post by: BW on March 17, 2023, 09:09:08 PM
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Post by: michigancat on March 17, 2023, 09:40:00 PM
Also, how concerned should I be that 90%is sitting in cash at the regional bank?
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Your personal cash or your company's cash? Or the exec personal cash? I'm guessing you shouldn't have more than $250k in cash so you're fine. Also your regional bank is probably fine.
Post by: Kat Kid on March 17, 2023, 09:51:52 PM
I’m a sovereign citizen so no I don’t pay taxes wymI just paid taxes to the IRS for the first time in my life. I have finally arrived.Samesies and it rough ridin' sucks :th_twocents:
First time first time or first time paying extra after filing?
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Post by: BW on March 18, 2023, 08:53:44 AM
Personal.Also, how concerned should I be that 90%is sitting in cash at the regional bank?
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Your personal cash or your company's cash? Or the exec personal cash? I'm guessing you shouldn't have more than $250k in cash so you're fine. Also your regional bank is probably fine.
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Post by: michigancat on March 18, 2023, 08:59:06 AM
Personal.Also, how concerned should I be that 90%is sitting in cash at the regional bank?
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Your personal cash or your company's cash? Or the exec personal cash? I'm guessing you shouldn't have more than $250k in cash so you're fine. Also your regional bank is probably fine.
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Well under 250k is insured and anything over that probably should be in a different asset (like VTSAX!) unless you have some sort of very special reason to keep over $250k in a single account. If you have more than $250k in an account and can't articulate why, you should consider hiring a fiduciary financial advisor! Might be a good idea anyway.
Post by: Justwin on March 18, 2023, 09:42:25 AM
Personal.Also, how concerned should I be that 90%is sitting in cash at the regional bank?
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Your personal cash or your company's cash? Or the exec personal cash? I'm guessing you shouldn't have more than $250k in cash so you're fine. Also your regional bank is probably fine.
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Well under 250k is insured and anything over that probably should be in a different asset (like VTSAX!) unless you have some sort of very special reason to keep over $250k in a single account. If you have more than $250k in an account and can't articulate why, you should consider hiring a fiduciary financial advisor! Might be a good idea anyway.
Or at the very least open an account at a different bank and make sure there is less than $250k in each account.
But I agree there is very little reason to have over $250k sitting around in cash.
Post by: Dugout DickStone on March 18, 2023, 10:50:09 AM
Post by: BW on March 18, 2023, 10:52:15 AM
I agree, been waiting to deploy it and also have some liquid for bills dealing with a house build/sale and move. After pay tax bill, it will be moved. Thus the question asking about a good money guy.Personal.Also, how concerned should I be that 90%is sitting in cash at the regional bank?
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Your personal cash or your company's cash? Or the exec personal cash? I'm guessing you shouldn't have more than $250k in cash so you're fine. Also your regional bank is probably fine.
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Well under 250k is insured and anything over that probably should be in a different asset (like VTSAX!) unless you have some sort of very special reason to keep over $250k in a single account. If you have more than $250k in an account and can't articulate why, you should consider hiring a fiduciary financial advisor! Might be a good idea anyway.
Or at the very least open an account at a different bank and make sure there is less than $250k in each account.
But I agree there is very little reason to have over $250k sitting around in cash.
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Post by: OB_Won on March 18, 2023, 01:30:05 PM
Post by: JasiahStafford on March 20, 2023, 08:09:49 PM
Post by: Spracne on March 20, 2023, 08:26:46 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 20, 2023, 08:53:06 PM
Post by: catastrophe on March 21, 2023, 01:40:14 PM
Post by: GregKSU1027 on March 21, 2023, 02:06:36 PM
First time paying extra after filing. I cannot speak for Kat KidI just paid taxes to the IRS for the first time in my life. I have finally arrived.Samesies and it rough ridin' sucks :th_twocents:
First time first time or first time paying extra after filing?
Post by: samuemiron on May 22, 2023, 05:06:42 AM
Post by: DaBigTrain on May 22, 2023, 09:18:05 AM
Post by: AzCat on May 23, 2023, 01:58:18 PM
Another company has promised some opportunities in private equity that aren't available to the general public.
Run. They're inviting you folks to be exit liquidity for the big money that has already got theirs. These "opportunities" being shopped through advisors now are tranches of gated funds that have yet to take their (vastly lower) marks on their portfolios. Best case: you're locked up for years; underwater for years; and well below public market returns by the time you can get out.
Post by: steve dave on May 23, 2023, 02:29:10 PM
AZCAT!Another company has promised some opportunities in private equity that aren't available to the general public.
Run. They're inviting you folks to be exit liquidity for the big money that has already got theirs. These "opportunities" being shopped through advisors now are tranches of gated funds that have yet to take their (vastly lower) marks on their portfolios. Best case: you're locked up for years; underwater for years; and well below public market returns by the time you can get out.
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Post by: ben ji on May 31, 2023, 12:00:01 AM
:Wha:
Post by: steve dave on May 31, 2023, 07:10:50 AM
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Post by: Stupid Fitz on July 07, 2023, 09:50:19 AM
Post by: 'taterblast on July 07, 2023, 09:53:27 AM
1. open Traditional if needed
2. open Roth if needed
3. put money in Traditional account
4. as soon as possible, transfer all of that money from Traditional to Roth account
5. invest that money within the Roth account
Post by: steve dave on July 07, 2023, 09:59:42 AM
I'm a dumbass and should have been doing this for a while, but i've got some excess cash and I'm thinking about a backdoor roth for Mrs SF. I'm doing it for her because I have an IRA that I don't want to mess with or deal with converting, transferring, taxes, etc. She doesn't currently have one so that seems easier. From what I gather, I just open a traditional IRA at Vanguard, fund it, buy whatever index fund, and then convert it. This all seems pretty easy, but as you have seen from the travel and credit card threads, I somehow make easy stuff way more difficult than it is supposed to be. Am I going to mess this up and should I not try this at all and just keep funding my taxable stuff? TIA
no, just fund it. don't buy anything in the trad roth. it'll just be in money market or whatever their standard cash vehicle is. then just immediately convert it to a roth. then you can buy whatever you want. it's incredibly easy and they basically walk you through doing it. I have one there and do this every year. I have a trad roth with a zero balance I just use over and over for this.
https://investor.vanguard.com/investor-resources-education/iras/how-to-convert-traditional-ira-to-roth-ira
Post by: Stupid Fitz on July 07, 2023, 10:01:49 AM
I'm a dumbass and should have been doing this for a while, but i've got some excess cash and I'm thinking about a backdoor roth for Mrs SF. I'm doing it for her because I have an IRA that I don't want to mess with or deal with converting, transferring, taxes, etc. She doesn't currently have one so that seems easier. From what I gather, I just open a traditional IRA at Vanguard, fund it, buy whatever index fund, and then convert it. This all seems pretty easy, but as you have seen from the travel and credit card threads, I somehow make easy stuff way more difficult than it is supposed to be. Am I going to mess this up and should I not try this at all and just keep funding my taxable stuff? TIA
no, just fund it. don't buy anything in the trad roth. it'll just be in money market or whatever their standard cash vehicle is. then just immediately convert it to a roth. then you can buy whatever you want. it's incredibly easy and they basically walk you through doing it. I have one there and do this every year. I have a trad roth with a zero balance I just use over and over for this.
https://investor.vanguard.com/investor-resources-education/iras/how-to-convert-traditional-ira-to-roth-ira
:ohno:
Post by: Tobias on July 07, 2023, 10:06:36 AM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on July 07, 2023, 10:28:16 AM
SF is going to somehow end up investing in a timeshare by the end of this one
I do love the beach when I finally get there after fighting points people.
Post by: catastrophe on July 07, 2023, 11:18:38 AM
You still can convert after buying a fund, it just might take a little longer and there’s a risk that the conversion results in a small taxable event if the value went up between buying and rolling over (which is not a problem money wise but can be a PITA come tax time depending on what you use).I'm a dumbass and should have been doing this for a while, but i've got some excess cash and I'm thinking about a backdoor roth for Mrs SF. I'm doing it for her because I have an IRA that I don't want to mess with or deal with converting, transferring, taxes, etc. She doesn't currently have one so that seems easier. From what I gather, I just open a traditional IRA at Vanguard, fund it, buy whatever index fund, and then convert it. This all seems pretty easy, but as you have seen from the travel and credit card threads, I somehow make easy stuff way more difficult than it is supposed to be. Am I going to mess this up and should I not try this at all and just keep funding my taxable stuff? TIA
no, just fund it. don't buy anything in the trad roth. it'll just be in money market or whatever their standard cash vehicle is. then just immediately convert it to a roth. then you can buy whatever you want. it's incredibly easy and they basically walk you through doing it. I have one there and do this every year. I have a trad roth with a zero balance I just use over and over for this.
https://investor.vanguard.com/investor-resources-education/iras/how-to-convert-traditional-ira-to-roth-ira
:ohno:
Also you might want to double check but I’m pretty sure you can only convert once per year, in which case you’d want to make sure the IRA is fully funded before taking the next step.
Post by: 'taterblast on July 07, 2023, 12:02:20 PM
you might want to double check but I’m pretty sure you can only convert once per year, in which case you’d want to make sure the IRA is fully funded before taking the next step.
if this is accurate i broke the rules several times and haven't gotten penalized yet
Post by: catastrophe on July 07, 2023, 12:33:25 PM
You’re probably right then.you might want to double check but I’m pretty sure you can only convert once per year, in which case you’d want to make sure the IRA is fully funded before taking the next step.
if this is accurate i broke the rules several times and haven't gotten penalized yet
I’ll bet I’m mixing that up with the Roth conversion options my work offers in our 401(k).
Post by: Stupid Fitz on July 07, 2023, 12:46:04 PM
Post by: steve dave on July 07, 2023, 12:48:17 PM
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Post by: Stupid Fitz on July 18, 2023, 04:44:37 PM
Nice work
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Quick question as I prob messed up a tiny bit. So I got busy and then went on vacation. I fully funded the traditional IRA without opening the Roth so it sat a couple weeks. I completed everything today and converted it all to a Roth thinking I was good. When I logged in a bit later the traditional showed like $7 in interest from being in the MM fund for the week or so. The Roth is maxed, so is that $7 going to be a PITA for me at some point? I didn't think about getting interest while letting the traditional sit. TIA
Post by: steve dave on July 18, 2023, 04:58:20 PM
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Post by: Stupid Fitz on July 18, 2023, 05:03:15 PM
Nah, you’ll just pay a tiny amount of tax on it. No biggie.
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:thumbsup:
Post by: Tobias on July 18, 2023, 05:55:41 PM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on July 19, 2023, 08:00:23 AM
classic fitz
Its a gift
Post by: catastrophe on July 19, 2023, 09:57:23 AM
And seriously, if you do your own taxes (with TurboTax or whatever) make sure your rollover/gain gets papered the right way in your tax return. I swear they still haven’t figured out a straightforward way to ask if you did a backdoor Roth.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on July 19, 2023, 10:09:54 AM
When you’re in the tax savings game, it can be easy to forget that you only pay taxes when you actually take home some money too. You’re better off with that $7 gain than if your value stayed exactly the same.
And seriously, if you do your own taxes (with TurboTax or whatever) make sure your rollover/gain gets papered the right way in your tax return. I swear they still haven’t figured out a straightforward way to ask if you did a backdoor Roth.
Oh man. I'm going to be right back here next tax season. I use Turbotax and I follow the "green is good" "red is bad strategy". ha
Post by: steve dave on July 19, 2023, 11:08:52 AM
When you’re in the tax savings game, it can be easy to forget that you only pay taxes when you actually take home some money too. You’re better off with that $7 gain than if your value stayed exactly the same.My CPA (retired but still does my taxes because they love me like a son) has it down
And seriously, if you do your own taxes (with TurboTax or whatever) make sure your rollover/gain gets papered the right way in your tax return. I swear they still haven’t figured out a straightforward way to ask if you did a backdoor Roth.
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Post by: bucket on July 19, 2023, 11:57:05 AM
Been reading how the stock market is overbought but my guy Mo is sounding pretty optimistic about this rally.
Post by: catastrophe on July 19, 2023, 01:31:52 PM
Post by: IPA4Me on July 19, 2023, 05:40:09 PM
Anyhow, best of luck to anyone not DCA'n monthly. Been a fun rip of late. Absolutely smashed that Netflix runup over the last few days.
Post by: BaronessXX on July 27, 2023, 05:15:31 AM
Post by: steve dave on July 27, 2023, 05:58:56 AM
Hey there! Don't worry; we've all been there with the "easy stuff" that somehow becomes complicated. First off, kudos to you for wanting to set up a backdoor Roth for Mrs. SF, that's a smart move. Setting up a traditional IRA at Vanguard and funding it with an index fund is indeed the way to go. Then, the conversion part is pretty straightforward too. Just make sure to follow the rules, and you'll be on the right track.More like baroness XXX
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Post by: meow meow on July 27, 2023, 08:39:47 AM
Post by: CNS on July 27, 2023, 08:47:47 AM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on July 27, 2023, 09:25:21 AM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on July 28, 2023, 08:21:50 AM
Post by: catastrophe on July 28, 2023, 08:44:23 AM
If I had $300m I’d put like $50 million into Vanguard or maybe even a robo investor and use just those gains & dividends for my daily expenses (general rule is it should reliably get you about $2 million/year in perpetuity).
The rest I’d split between a charitable trust to donate to crap, trusts for the kids, and probably the biggest bucket (maybe $100m-$150m) for potential big expenses or business ventures. I’d have someone help me with that last bucket but probably not the others outside of setting it up.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on July 28, 2023, 09:01:01 AM
I’d probably start with a trusts and estates attorney to deal with tax/security issues.
If I had $300m I’d put like $50 million into Vanguard or maybe even a robo investor and use just those gains & dividends for my daily expenses (general rule is it should reliably get you about $2 million/year in perpetuity).
The rest I’d split between a charitable trust to donate to crap, trusts for the kids, and probably the biggest bucket (maybe $100m-$150m) for potential big expenses or business ventures. I’d have someone help me with that last bucket but probably not the others outside of setting it up.
This is where I am. I left out the trust part because that would be obvious. I would def open up several accounts to split the investments. They would all be various index funds but at different brokers. I guess I would prob also buy treasuries direct. A big chunk would be charities and that would prob be my favorite thing. Deciding where the annual dividends or earnings on those accounts and delivering the check would be fun. I'd prob do that anonymous though, but the process would be fun.
Post by: sys on July 28, 2023, 10:38:58 AM
Post by: OB_Won on July 28, 2023, 11:07:28 AM
Post by: Spracne on July 28, 2023, 11:40:52 AM
So what's your lottery strategy? Say like 300m. I feel like the main thing I would need is cash management and tax advice. I could maybe even cover cash management. Would I even really care that much about taxes with that much money? I guess most rich people do. The thought of paying people 1-3% or more annually of that much money and to not beat the market sounds awful, but you prob almost have to at that level.
I'd buy Twitter and turn it into a $44 billion company.
Post by: star seed 7 on July 28, 2023, 05:54:23 PM
Post by: ben ji on July 28, 2023, 06:29:53 PM
prolly the traditional 80% in land, 20% in cows.There is one thing they aren't making more of....land.
Post by: steve dave on August 03, 2023, 08:02:04 AM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on August 03, 2023, 08:16:21 AM
can't remember if we've discussed the changes to 529s or not but the new rule about being able to roll them into an IRA for your kid if they don't use it for school or approved school adjace stuff is pretty damn nice. other than I worry lil sd will get wise to it and be like "rough ridin' jackpot, I'm not going to college (does a burnout in his car)"
Saw this. Great deal, but if Lil SF says eff it, no college, SF is moving to the beach.
Post by: Kat Kid on August 03, 2023, 08:35:06 AM
can't remember if we've discussed the changes to 529s or not but the new rule about being able to roll them into an IRA for your kid if they don't use it for school or approved school adjace stuff is pretty damn nice. other than I worry lil sd will get wise to it and be like "rough ridin' jackpot, I'm not going to college (does a burnout in his car)"Literally will buy a challenger and burnout. I don’t think not telling him will be that hard.
Post by: catastrophe on August 03, 2023, 12:52:37 PM
can't remember if we've discussed the changes to 529s or not but the new rule about being able to roll them into an IRA for your kid if they don't use it for school or approved school adjace stuff is pretty damn nice. other than I worry lil sd will get wise to it and be like "rough ridin' jackpot, I'm not going to college (does a burnout in his car)"
Post the rule, COWARD
This sounds like a rule tailor-made for my daily struggle of wanting to take full advantage of compounding while being increasingly convinced my boy is not college material.
Post by: catastrophe on August 03, 2023, 12:57:04 PM
Edit: Per the Journal of Accountancy.com:
*The lifetime maximum a 529 beneficiary can transfer under the rule is $35,000;
*The 529 account must have existed for at least 15 years;
*No contributions or earnings on contributions from the last five years can be transferred;
*The transfers are subject to annual Roth IRA contribution limits (but there is no upper income constraint).
How am I supposed to exploit a law like that? LAME
Post by: Spracne on August 03, 2023, 01:08:30 PM
Rather than wait around I did my own research and it looks like there will be a lifetime limit of $35k, which is not the kind of retirement I had in mind.
Edit: Per the Journal of Accountancy.com:
*The lifetime maximum a 529 beneficiary can transfer under the rule is $35,000;
*The 529 account must have existed for at least 15 years;
*No contributions or earnings on contributions from the last five years can be transferred;
*The transfers are subject to annual Roth IRA contribution limits (but there is no upper income constraint).
How am I supposed to exploit a law like that? LAME
Sounds like you made the mistake of not being born filthy rich. Couldn't be me!
Post by: sys on August 03, 2023, 09:41:25 PM
Post by: wetwillie on August 03, 2023, 09:46:31 PM
Post by: sys on August 03, 2023, 09:54:49 PM
Post by: steve dave on August 03, 2023, 09:58:01 PM
what's the rule on starting one of these 529s, finding out 18 years later that you don't have kid and then rolling it into your own ira?
I assume you can just handle it like the old columbia house music club bills and write "DECEASED" across the front of the invoice real big and send it back and be home free.
Post by: wetwillie on August 03, 2023, 10:01:00 PM
Post by: steve dave on August 03, 2023, 10:02:42 PM
You can transfer the funds to another child's 529 tax free. Just keep having a new kid every 17 years
"kid"
Post by: catastrophe on August 03, 2023, 10:11:09 PM
what's the rule on starting one of these 529s, finding out 18 years later that you don't have kid and then rolling it into your own ira?1. The $35k lifetime limit
2. You are still limited in how much you can contribute to the IRA depending on how much you make annually. Get that pretend kid a pretend job and you’re probably ok.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 25, 2023, 02:39:26 AM
Post by: ben ji on December 25, 2023, 11:44:48 AM
https://twitter.com/FortuneMagazine/status/1736312242562294260Looks like those genX'ers should have watched less MTV and put more into retirement instead of spending all their money on Compact Discs.
Post by: wetwillie on December 25, 2023, 12:04:18 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on December 25, 2023, 01:42:24 PM
Post by: sys on December 25, 2023, 03:23:30 PM
Post by: KITNfury on December 26, 2023, 07:43:27 AM
https://twitter.com/jmhorp/status/1706311482353279006Looks pretty close for all 3 gens at the mid 30s. Now watcha gonna do wit it, watcha gonna do wit it. I put this graph in your face.
Post by: steve dave on January 02, 2024, 08:04:29 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GC14TzUWQAAeAMt?format=png&name=small)
Post by: michigancat on January 02, 2024, 08:06:31 AM
lmao
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GC14TzUWQAAeAMt?format=png&name=small)
stop
lmao
Post by: cfbandyman on January 02, 2024, 11:20:44 AM
Post by: wetwillie on January 02, 2024, 11:28:24 AM
Post by: steve dave on January 02, 2024, 11:32:00 AM
Personal finance types I think have to be certified weirdos to make it in the space
100%. Ramsey, Kiyosaki, Orman, all grifting sociopaths.
Post by: Pete on January 02, 2024, 01:02:13 PM
Post by: ShellShock on January 04, 2024, 07:50:42 AM
https://twitter.com/jmhorp/status/1706311482353279006
Is this net worth per capita? I'm confused by this graph...
Post by: Skipper44 on January 04, 2024, 08:37:31 AM
lmaothis person is just a germaphobe with a high resource level
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GC14TzUWQAAeAMt?format=png&name=small)
Post by: CNS on January 04, 2024, 09:07:03 AM
Personal finance types I think have to be certified weirdos to make it in the space
100%. Ramsey, Kiyosaki, Orman, all grifting sociopaths.
Rich Dad Poor Dad just had an article written about how he is $1.2B in debt and his response is that he doesn't rough ridin' care because if he goes bust so does the bank that he owes that money to.
finance hack!
Post by: steve dave on January 04, 2024, 09:30:57 AM
Personal finance types I think have to be certified weirdos to make it in the space
100%. Ramsey, Kiyosaki, Orman, all grifting sociopaths.
Rich Dad Poor Dad just had an article written about how he is $1.2B in debt and his response is that he doesn't rough ridin' care because if he goes bust so does the bank that he owes that money to.
finance hack!
that downgrade has been calling for a catastrophic market collapse for like 20 years straight.
Post by: IPA4Me on January 04, 2024, 09:33:48 AM
Macro boys never seem to consider the Fed and Treasury keep propping crap.Personal finance types I think have to be certified weirdos to make it in the space
100%. Ramsey, Kiyosaki, Orman, all grifting sociopaths.
Rich Dad Poor Dad just had an article written about how he is $1.2B in debt and his response is that he doesn't rough ridin' care because if he goes bust so does the bank that he owes that money to.
finance hack!
that downgrade has been calling for a catastrophic market collapse for like 20 years straight.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on January 04, 2024, 01:54:18 PM
Post by: catastrophe on January 04, 2024, 02:59:48 PM
Should just make this a sticky. Its almost backdoor roth time. I have a roth at VG and also a taxable MM there. If I remember right, I open a new regular IRA, move the MM to the regular and then "convert" to the currently open Roth???Generally I think you got it, but honestly every year I just Google “vanguard IRA to Roth conversion.” They have a step by step laying out the process for you.
Also, if you did this last year you shouldn’t need to open a new traditional IRA. You should just have the same IRA with a zero balance that you can fund directly and then convert that.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on January 04, 2024, 03:20:25 PM
:thumbsup:Should just make this a sticky. Its almost backdoor roth time. I have a roth at VG and also a taxable MM there. If I remember right, I open a new regular IRA, move the MM to the regular and then "convert" to the currently open Roth???Generally I think you got it, but honestly every year I just Google “vanguard IRA to Roth conversion.” They have a step by step laying out the process for you.
Also, if you did this last year you shouldn’t need to open a new traditional IRA. You should just have the same IRA with a zero balance that you can fund directly and then convert that.
Post by: steve dave on February 09, 2024, 04:23:35 PM
https://twitter.com/RyanDetrick/status/1756060932713668784
Post by: wetwillie on February 09, 2024, 04:32:48 PM
Post by: JaylenHouse on February 22, 2024, 07:53:12 PM
And diving into a Roth IRA after maxing out that match? Genius move. Tax-free growth and more investment options? Sign me up! Plus, starting early means you'll reap the benefits down the road when you're living the high life in retirement.
If you're hungry for more investing wisdom, I stumbled upon this blog about VC NYC firms that might offer some fresh insights: waveup.com/blog/venture-capital-firms-nyc/ (https://waveup.com/blog/venture-capital-firms-nyc/). Give it a read and see if it sparks any lightbulb moments.
Post by: DaBigTrain on March 27, 2024, 01:46:32 PM
Post by: catastrophe on March 27, 2024, 07:58:34 PM
Post by: DaBigTrain on April 01, 2024, 03:26:24 PM
So should I put my life savings into $DJT ? Seems like a sure thing...
Quote
Trump Media (NASDAQ:DJT) shares fell more than 20% on Monday, erasing the gains seen since the social network merged with special-purpose acquisition company Digital World Acquisition Corp. to become a publicly traded company.
Shares were recently changing hands at $49.00 as more than 22M shares were traded.
Separately on Monday, the company filed a document with the Securities and Exchange Commission that it had a net loss of $58M in 2023 on $4.1M in revenue.
:sdeek:
Post by: Spracne on April 01, 2024, 03:49:06 PM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on April 01, 2024, 04:13:18 PM
Nobody could have seen this coming ...
You mean an entire social media platform set up so one person can say whatever he wants doesn't make any money?
Post by: DaBigTrain on April 15, 2024, 05:24:56 PM
Post by: Spracne on April 15, 2024, 07:46:24 PM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 16, 2024, 11:01:30 AM
Post by: GregKSU1027 on April 22, 2024, 08:01:52 AM
I have my 401k with my employer with 5% match and then they match my investment which is neat, have had a Roth IRA that I maxed out last year and am already getting close to maxing it out this year. Any other investments I should be worried about on my radar as a single 26 yo male? With my job I cannot sports bet so that's nice so looking to put my money into something worthwhile. I also have a high yield savings that I put my bitcoin money into but have been told to maybe put that into a mutual fund...
Thoughts? :bwpopcorn:
Post by: Stupid Fitz on April 22, 2024, 08:09:59 AM
Sup nerds.
I have my 401k with my employer with 5% match and then they match my investment which is neat, have had a Roth IRA that I maxed out last year and am already getting close to maxing it out this year. Any other investments I should be worried about on my radar as a single 26 yo male? With my job I cannot sports bet so that's nice so looking to put my money into something worthwhile. I also have a high yield savings that I put my bitcoin money into but have been told to maybe put that into a mutual fund...
Thoughts? :bwpopcorn:
I'd keep upping my 401k contributions as much as possible. If you are maxed there as well, (that rough ridin' rules as a 26 year old by the way), id just put money in a Vanguard S and P or total stock market fund.
Post by: steve dave on April 22, 2024, 08:45:15 AM
Sup nerds.
I have my 401k with my employer with 5% match and then they match my investment which is neat, have had a Roth IRA that I maxed out last year and am already getting close to maxing it out this year. Any other investments I should be worried about on my radar as a single 26 yo male? With my job I cannot sports bet so that's nice so looking to put my money into something worthwhile. I also have a high yield savings that I put my bitcoin money into but have been told to maybe put that into a mutual fund...
Thoughts? :bwpopcorn:
taxable investments are underrated imo. good job on the tax advantaged stuff. if you don't have a brokerage account you should open one (can do it the same place you have your 401k/IRA) and like SF said a simple S&P fund (I use VOO) is a good option to set and forget. Also just keeping a chunk in money markets there isn't a bad deal as you'll probably scrape 5% from that at the moment. if you have kids (OR EVEN IF YOU DON'T BUT WILL SOON) you could start a 529 for them. lots of good options out there.
Post by: michigancat on April 22, 2024, 09:20:55 AM
Also are you maxing out the 401k beyond the match? you should probably do that as well if you aren't already and have too much cash to know what to do with.
Post by: DaBigTrain on April 22, 2024, 09:25:05 AM
Post by: bucket on April 22, 2024, 09:25:37 AM
I would recommend putting everything in bitcoin into an S&P or total stock market fund asap. I use VTSAX (but VOO is great too)
Also are you maxing out the 401k beyond the match? you should probably do that as well if you aren't already and have too much cash to know what to do with.
FXAIX is another one that I use.
Post by: DaBigTrain on April 22, 2024, 09:31:46 AM
Post by: GregKSU1027 on April 22, 2024, 09:42:15 AM
No kids, gotta get the other half through pharmacy school at the other Kansas School. My work 401k is through nationwide, I have fidelity for the Roth. Hoping I can get things saved up for a house in the next four years. I am in line for a big raise and hopefully a promotion in those four years so that will definitely help. But renting/saving for the time being. I don't have a car payment as I took a baby loan and already have that paid off.Sup nerds.
I have my 401k with my employer with 5% match and then they match my investment which is neat, have had a Roth IRA that I maxed out last year and am already getting close to maxing it out this year. Any other investments I should be worried about on my radar as a single 26 yo male? With my job I cannot sports bet so that's nice so looking to put my money into something worthwhile. I also have a high yield savings that I put my bitcoin money into but have been told to maybe put that into a mutual fund...
Thoughts? :bwpopcorn:
taxable investments are underrated imo. good job on the tax advantaged stuff. if you don't have a brokerage account you should open one (can do it the same place you have your 401k/IRA) and like SF said a simple S&P fund (I use VOO) is a good option to set and forget. Also just keeping a chunk in money markets there isn't a bad deal as you'll probably scrape 5% from that at the moment. if you have kids (OR EVEN IF YOU DON'T BUT WILL SOON) you could start a 529 for them. lots of good options out there.
As always, this blog is GOATED with the sauce.
Post by: GregKSU1027 on April 22, 2024, 09:45:47 AM
I wouldn’t listen to these boomers and their advice about even touching the stock market. Dump everything into bitcoin and retire early GregI sold my Bitcoin as soon as I heard the feds were trying to get their slice of the pie last year. So I am outta the bitcoin. Waiting for some other mad man to come up with an idea. I bought in on a highschool computer 10ish years ago and let that bad boy sit til I saw the feds were gonna get my dollars and pulled her out.
For reference spent my first Dillions paycheck on 1.00 Coin and a PS4 Sophomore year of high school. My mom was so mad :curse: :dunno:
Post by: Spracne on April 22, 2024, 09:50:51 AM
I wouldn’t listen to these boomers and their advice about even touching the stock market. Dump everything into bitcoin and retire early GregI sold my Bitcoin as soon as I heard the feds were trying to get their slice of the pie last year. So I am outta the bitcoin. Waiting for some other mad man to come up with an idea. I bought in on a highschool computer 10ish years ago and let that bad boy sit til I saw the feds were gonna get my dollars and pulled her out.
For reference spent my first Dillions paycheck on 1.00 Coin and a PS4 Sophomore year of high school. My mom was so mad :curse: :dunno:
And that mad man? He goes by stevedave.
Post by: michigancat on April 22, 2024, 09:59:08 AM
No kids, gotta get the other half through pharmacy school at the other Kansas School. My work 401k is through nationwide, I have fidelity for the Roth. Hoping I can get things saved up for a house in the next four years. I am in line for a big raise and hopefully a promotion in those four years so that will definitely help. But renting/saving for the time being. I don't have a car payment as I took a baby loan and already have that paid off.Sup nerds.
I have my 401k with my employer with 5% match and then they match my investment which is neat, have had a Roth IRA that I maxed out last year and am already getting close to maxing it out this year. Any other investments I should be worried about on my radar as a single 26 yo male? With my job I cannot sports bet so that's nice so looking to put my money into something worthwhile. I also have a high yield savings that I put my bitcoin money into but have been told to maybe put that into a mutual fund...
Thoughts? :bwpopcorn:
taxable investments are underrated imo. good job on the tax advantaged stuff. if you don't have a brokerage account you should open one (can do it the same place you have your 401k/IRA) and like SF said a simple S&P fund (I use VOO) is a good option to set and forget. Also just keeping a chunk in money markets there isn't a bad deal as you'll probably scrape 5% from that at the moment. if you have kids (OR EVEN IF YOU DON'T BUT WILL SOON) you could start a 529 for them. lots of good options out there.
As always, this blog is GOATED with the sauce.
do you have a savings goal for the house and a plan to get there? Doesn't change a ton of advice given but you could throw more into a brokerage account to save for that instead of maxing the 401k. Probably riskier than many would recommend but you're a bitcoin investor so whatever
Also I wouldn't plan/count on a significant raise IMO
Post by: catastrophe on April 22, 2024, 11:15:22 AM
Sup nerds.
I have my 401k with my employer with 5% match and then they match my investment which is neat, have had a Roth IRA that I maxed out last year and am already getting close to maxing it out this year. Any other investments I should be worried about on my radar as a single 26 yo male? With my job I cannot sports bet so that's nice so looking to put my money into something worthwhile. I also have a high yield savings that I put my bitcoin money into but have been told to maybe put that into a mutual fund...
Thoughts? :bwpopcorn:
taxable investments are underrated imo. good job on the tax advantaged stuff. if you don't have a brokerage account you should open one (can do it the same place you have your 401k/IRA) and like SF said a simple S&P fund (I use VOO) is a good option to set and forget. Also just keeping a chunk in money markets there isn't a bad deal as you'll probably scrape 5% from that at the moment. if you have kids (OR EVEN IF YOU DON'T BUT WILL SOON) you could start a 529 for them. lots of good options out there.
I second basically all of this.
It's currently pretty easy to open high interest savings account and get 4-5%. That's a (basically) risk free way to save for a house.
529s are very powerful if you start early. If you're sure you are going to have/adopt at least one kid even a few years from now (I think; consult your tax attorney) then you can open an account and even just put like $20-$100/month into it. Future (and little) Greg will thank you.
Look into whether you have investment options through your HSA. HSAs are the only accounts that you pay into tax free, grow tax free, and you can withdraw tax free. The only catch is that to you have to use the funds for health expenses. But lucky you, you live in America and our health care (especially for elders) is ridiculously expensive so you won't have trouble spending it.
Post by: ben ji on April 22, 2024, 03:01:59 PM
Came here to say this, hsa's kickass.Sup nerds.
I have my 401k with my employer with 5% match and then they match my investment which is neat, have had a Roth IRA that I maxed out last year and am already getting close to maxing it out this year. Any other investments I should be worried about on my radar as a single 26 yo male? With my job I cannot sports bet so that's nice so looking to put my money into something worthwhile. I also have a high yield savings that I put my bitcoin money into but have been told to maybe put that into a mutual fund...
Thoughts? :bwpopcorn:
taxable investments are underrated imo. good job on the tax advantaged stuff. if you don't have a brokerage account you should open one (can do it the same place you have your 401k/IRA) and like SF said a simple S&P fund (I use VOO) is a good option to set and forget. Also just keeping a chunk in money markets there isn't a bad deal as you'll probably scrape 5% from that at the moment. if you have kids (OR EVEN IF YOU DON'T BUT WILL SOON) you could start a 529 for them. lots of good options out there.
I second basically all of this.
It's currently pretty easy to open high interest savings account and get 4-5%. That's a (basically) risk free way to save for a house.
529s are very powerful if you start early. If you're sure you are going to have/adopt at least one kid even a few years from now (I think; consult your tax attorney) then you can open an account and even just put like $20-$100/month into it. Future (and little) Greg will thank you.
Look into whether you have investment options through your HSA. HSAs are the only accounts that you pay into tax free, grow tax free, and you can withdraw tax free. The only catch is that to you have to use the funds for health expenses. But lucky you, you live in America and our health care (especially for elders) is ridiculously expensive so you won't have trouble spending it.
Post by: steve dave on April 22, 2024, 03:24:49 PM
Sup nerds.
I have my 401k with my employer with 5% match and then they match my investment which is neat, have had a Roth IRA that I maxed out last year and am already getting close to maxing it out this year. Any other investments I should be worried about on my radar as a single 26 yo male? With my job I cannot sports bet so that's nice so looking to put my money into something worthwhile. I also have a high yield savings that I put my bitcoin money into but have been told to maybe put that into a mutual fund...
Thoughts? :bwpopcorn:
taxable investments are underrated imo. good job on the tax advantaged stuff. if you don't have a brokerage account you should open one (can do it the same place you have your 401k/IRA) and like SF said a simple S&P fund (I use VOO) is a good option to set and forget. Also just keeping a chunk in money markets there isn't a bad deal as you'll probably scrape 5% from that at the moment. if you have kids (OR EVEN IF YOU DON'T BUT WILL SOON) you could start a 529 for them. lots of good options out there.
I second basically all of this.
It's currently pretty easy to open high interest savings account and get 4-5%. That's a (basically) risk free way to save for a house.
529s are very powerful if you start early. If you're sure you are going to have/adopt at least one kid even a few years from now (I think; consult your tax attorney) then you can open an account and even just put like $20-$100/month into it. Future (and little) Greg will thank you.
Look into whether you have investment options through your HSA. HSAs are the only accounts that you pay into tax free, grow tax free, and you can withdraw tax free. The only catch is that to you have to use the funds for health expenses. But lucky you, you live in America and our health care (especially for elders) is ridiculously expensive so you won't have trouble spending it.
nope
Post by: Spracne on April 22, 2024, 03:33:12 PM
Post by: catastrophe on April 22, 2024, 04:35:16 PM
You can also reimburse yourself for qualifying expenses at any time (I think), so if you paid a specialist $600 this year but paid it out of pocket to let that same money grow tax free in your HSA, you can take a $600 withdrawal 20 years later in cash. But you have to save the receipts and that sounds like a lot of work that realistically I probably won't ever do.
Post by: wetwillie on April 22, 2024, 05:46:25 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on April 22, 2024, 06:40:04 PM
The plan should be to live lavishly with only a reasonable emergency fund in place and euthanize yourself when you can't work anymore.
My man :cheers: