StL County Cops Shoot Teen

[sonofdaxjones]

FFS, I didn't say give the cops a pew-pew Barney Fife pistol. 

[Dugout DickStone]

FFS, I didn't say give the cops a pew-pew Barney Fife pistol.

No one is saying that.  But they don't need MRAPs

[CNS]

I agree with EMO that the subject largely got changed from police using excessive force and shooting people to police equipment, which don't seem all that closely related.

It was closely related in Ferguson. And I think it's closely related overall because it deals with two big problems with law enforcement in the country that probably need widespread change.

They're two different problems with two different solutions. Focusing on the latter, more tangible, easier to fix problem takes attention away from the former, which seems like a much worse problem to me.

I feel my attention is adequately focused on both. Or more accurately, I'll treat them equally, (as in do nothing but talk about it). But I agree that the use of excessive force is a bigger problem.

There would't be investgations and such without the attention.

Well, this is going to be like the tenth time I've mentioned that no one in the US accurately knows how many people cops kill every year (other than some guy on shaggy bevo), so I hope that gets someone started on that. Like, to start I think any department that wants any money should have to report how many people their officers kill annually.

Yeah, the voluntary reporting is insane. 

[chum1]

I agree with EMO that the subject largely got changed from police using excessive force and shooting people to police equipment, which don't seem all that closely related.

It was closely related in Ferguson. And I think it's closely related overall because it deals with two big problems with law enforcement in the country that probably need widespread change.

They're two different problems with two different solutions. Focusing on the latter, more tangible, easier to fix problem takes attention away from the former, which seems like a much worse problem to me.

I feel my attention is adequately focused on both. Or more accurately, I'll treat them equally, (as in do nothing but talk about it). But I agree that the use of excessive force is a bigger problem.

There would't be investgations and such without the attention.

Well, this is going to be like the tenth time I've mentioned that no one in the US accurately knows how many people cops kill every year (other than some guy on shaggy bevo), so I hope that gets someone started on that. Like, to start I think any department that wants any money should have to report how many people their officers kill annually.

What I'm saying is that this is less likely due to attention being diverted to military equipment. There is a finite amount of attention that these people are able to give.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Is the "I hate cops" crowd the gen-y version of the gen-x's "I hate corporations" crowd. Because they seem to be equally Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

[Emo EMAW]

Also FWIW cops have been well armed and too aggressive for a loooooong time.  Since the 1800's at least.


Sent using Tapatalk Elite on iPhone 6

[ednksu]

Do you idiots have any idea just how many times cops shoot unarmed citizens of any race and it doesn't become national news? I put a link in this thread like 10 days ago of LAPD shooting and killing an unarmed black man who was mentally handicapped, no one batted an eye. I really don't understand the stupid strawman that the libtard media will only talk about this when it happens to a black person and every time it happens it is national news, cut the crap. This Michael Brown story didn't become news when it happened, it became news when the citizens started to protest, some started to riot, the media got wind of the history of Ferguson PD and its citizens, and the FPD and STL Sheriff's started arresting media members. Cops shooting people has absolutely become "Dog Bites Man." The Brown/Ferguson story has several elements that are "Man Bites Dog."

I'm going to get all foxnews-y for a second.....are we going to talk about stuff like this?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2734860/Ex-Marine-left-brain-injury-pal-told-Waffle-House-wasn-t-safe-following-Ferguson-case-attacked-mob-20-people-parking-lot.html

I can't believe I'm engaging you again, this won't end well. Anyway, two questions;
1. What is there for "we" to talk about? I don't think anyone is going to make excuses for this man being beaten. No one made excuses for looting in Ferguson, no one will make excuses for me driving 20 MPH over the speed limit earlier today. Plenty of excuses given though for a cop shooting an unarmed citizen though.
2. Why are you posting that in here, it has nothing to do what we're talking about. Is this now a catch-all-thread for crime? Is this a plea for whites who are victim of crime to get equal billing? I'm reading you placing this link here like you did, with whatever getting all foxnews-y means, essentially the same thing as saying this

I'd complain about a double-standard in the media when it comes to allegations of racism, but why bother? There's a lot of libtards out there that don't believe black against white prejudice meets the definition of "racism." Whatever, arguing that point is futile.

This whole thread has become a nauseating bitchfest about perceived racism. I think it's a pretty safe assumption that sometimes black people are unfairly targeted/treated by cops. I also think a legitimate argument can be made that whites and black alike place less value on black lives. But in this particular case, none of this results in a dead teenager if that teenage doesn't behave like a thug and attack a cop. That's the part Brown had control over - his own conduct.

The bolded portion of this post is just utterly hilarious bullshit and you know it. I have never in my life heard anyone worth listening to, that black people can't be racist against white people. That is comically dumb, and an unnecessary diversion to the conversation you are attempting to have. I've heard that once in my life and it was Kevin telling Julie that on the first season of the real world, since then he's said he was wrong about that.

Why, when talking about race, can't you just say that racism exists, it's prevalent, and white privilege is real? Your second paragraph starts to address it but then it is parsed and suddenly jumps back into Brown being a thug. Your post reads like, "yeah there's racism and it isn't right, but racism won't stop until they can stop being thugs."

Much projection

Your number one is...well, I'm not sure what it supposed to be.  Your number one completely misses the point of the post, that race is a complex issue in American society and impacts all sectors.  You attempt to obscure that by making a quip about oh is this a crime catch all thread?  when its clearly not placed in that context.  Your second is just false on face.  This thread doesn't pertain to race and policing?  It doesn't pertain to race and media coverage?  It doesn't pertain to race reactions and how narratives are constructed?  I guess you missed the part where you were dropping N bombs to make a point about race.....which now isn't an issue in this thread.  Now its nice that pretty much everyone agrees that police have been using heavy handed tactics and *some* of their tech and use isn't appropriate in certain places, specifically public protests.  But a large part of this thread has been about racial constructions in the United States.  That construction is influenced by the media, the police, police interactions with the community, and a number of other factors.  You dismiss KSUW's point about personal responsibility with the same deflection used to obscure real, critical, evaluations of race in the U.S.  Yes there are real issues with white privilege which a large part of America ignores or simply doesn't believe in (note the foxnews-y point here.).  But that doesn't we shouldn't point out directly related race issues and we shouldn't ignore or dismiss them them because it makes people uncomfortable or hurts their agenda.   So no, the post isn't about whites getting "equal billing" its about people ignoring racism in all of America's policing, how the media displays or distorts a story, and the failure of our society to say this is wrong on face, without putting a racial qualifier on an incident as you did.

[ednksu]

http://assholeoftheday.us/post/95932570845/bill-oreilly-bad person-of-the-day-for-august-27

[ednksu]

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/ufqeuz/race-off?xrs=synd_facebook_082714_tds_16

[Emo EMAW]

 

[MakeItRain]

Your number one is...well, I'm not sure what it supposed to be.  Your number one completely misses the point of the post, that race is a complex issue in American society and impacts all sectors.  You attempt to obscure that by making a quip about oh is this a crime catch all thread?  when its clearly not placed in that context.  Your second is just false on face.  This thread doesn't pertain to race and policing?  It doesn't pertain to race and media coverage?  It doesn't pertain to race reactions and how narratives are constructed?  I guess you missed the part where you were dropping N bombs to make a point about race.....which now isn't an issue in this thread.  Now its nice that pretty much everyone agrees that police have been using heavy handed tactics and *some* of their tech and use isn't appropriate in certain places, specifically public protests.  But a large part of this thread has been about racial constructions in the United States.  That construction is influenced by the media, the police, police interactions with the community, and a number of other factors.  You dismiss KSUW's point about personal responsibility with the same deflection used to obscure real, critical, evaluations of race in the U.S.  Yes there are real issues with white privilege which a large part of America ignores or simply doesn't believe in (note the foxnews-y point here.).  But that doesn't we shouldn't point out directly related race issues and we shouldn't ignore or dismiss them them because it makes people uncomfortable or hurts their agenda.   So no, the post isn't about whites getting "equal billing" its about people ignoring racism in all of America's policing, how the media displays or distorts a story, and the failure of our society to say this is wrong on face, without putting a racial qualifier on an incident as you did.

So your problem is that the media doesn't equally report that black people are racist too? Isn't the link you posted about a white dude getting beat up from the media? I randomly saw a Reginald Denny video on CNN Tuesday. The mass media doesn't routinely report about black people being racist because that is a conversation about an individual or a small group or individuals being racist. When race gets interjected into a national story it is about an institution or a system that may or may not be racist. Frankly there's no institutional racism harming white people. If the media reported with zeal every time someone got beaten up by a racist or racists that would be all that we talk about because it happens everyday.

[Emo EMAW]

Your number one is...well, I'm not sure what it supposed to be.  Your number one completely misses the point of the post, that race is a complex issue in American society and impacts all sectors.  You attempt to obscure that by making a quip about oh is this a crime catch all thread?  when its clearly not placed in that context.  Your second is just false on face.  This thread doesn't pertain to race and policing?  It doesn't pertain to race and media coverage?  It doesn't pertain to race reactions and how narratives are constructed?  I guess you missed the part where you were dropping N bombs to make a point about race.....which now isn't an issue in this thread.  Now its nice that pretty much everyone agrees that police have been using heavy handed tactics and *some* of their tech and use isn't appropriate in certain places, specifically public protests.  But a large part of this thread has been about racial constructions in the United States.  That construction is influenced by the media, the police, police interactions with the community, and a number of other factors.  You dismiss KSUW's point about personal responsibility with the same deflection used to obscure real, critical, evaluations of race in the U.S.  Yes there are real issues with white privilege which a large part of America ignores or simply doesn't believe in (note the foxnews-y point here.).  But that doesn't we shouldn't point out directly related race issues and we shouldn't ignore or dismiss them them because it makes people uncomfortable or hurts their agenda.   So no, the post isn't about whites getting "equal billing" its about people ignoring racism in all of America's policing, how the media displays or distorts a story, and the failure of our society to say this is wrong on face, without putting a racial qualifier on an incident as you did.

So your problem is that the media doesn't equally report that black people are racist too? Isn't the link you posted about a white dude getting beat up from the media? I randomly saw a Reginald Denny video on CNN Tuesday. The mass media doesn't routinely report about black people being racist because that is a conversation about an individual or a small group or individuals being racist. When race gets interjected into a national story it is about an institution or a system that may or may not be racist. Frankly there's no institutional racism harming white people. If the media reported with zeal every time someone got beaten up by a racist or racists that would be all that we talk about because it happens everyday.

People have argued that affirmative action harms white people.

[Cartierfor3]

Only time I've ever heard of institutional racism hurting a white person I knew in real life was when a dude was trying to become a firefighter, and they were hiring black guys ahead of him because the dept. wanted more diversity. Then he went and got another job and was fine anyway. I'm sure there's some, but I've never really seen or experienced it like, ever. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

Only time I've ever heard of institutional racism hurting a white person I knew in real life was when a dude was trying to become a firefighter, and they were hiring black guys ahead of him because the dept. wanted more diversity. Then he went and got another job and was fine anyway. I'm sure there's some, but I've never really seen or experienced it like, ever.

Elizabeth Warren had to lie about her race to get into Harvard.

[michigancat]

Only time I've ever heard of institutional racism hurting a white person I knew in real life was when a dude was trying to become a firefighter, and they were hiring black guys ahead of him because the dept. wanted more diversity. Then he went and got another job and was fine anyway. I'm sure there's some, but I've never really seen or experienced it like, ever.

I'm fine with this. We crap on their people for years and still kind of do so if it's a tie or even if the black guy is merely competent I say give it to the black guy.

[ednksu]

Your number one is...well, I'm not sure what it supposed to be.  Your number one completely misses the point of the post, that race is a complex issue in American society and impacts all sectors.  You attempt to obscure that by making a quip about oh is this a crime catch all thread?  when its clearly not placed in that context.  Your second is just false on face.  This thread doesn't pertain to race and policing?  It doesn't pertain to race and media coverage?  It doesn't pertain to race reactions and how narratives are constructed?  I guess you missed the part where you were dropping N bombs to make a point about race.....which now isn't an issue in this thread.  Now its nice that pretty much everyone agrees that police have been using heavy handed tactics and *some* of their tech and use isn't appropriate in certain places, specifically public protests.  But a large part of this thread has been about racial constructions in the United States.  That construction is influenced by the media, the police, police interactions with the community, and a number of other factors.  You dismiss KSUW's point about personal responsibility with the same deflection used to obscure real, critical, evaluations of race in the U.S.  Yes there are real issues with white privilege which a large part of America ignores or simply doesn't believe in (note the foxnews-y point here.).  But that doesn't we shouldn't point out directly related race issues and we shouldn't ignore or dismiss them them because it makes people uncomfortable or hurts their agenda.   So no, the post isn't about whites getting "equal billing" its about people ignoring racism in all of America's policing, how the media displays or distorts a story, and the failure of our society to say this is wrong on face, without putting a racial qualifier on an incident as you did.

So your problem is that the media doesn't equally report that black people are racist too? Isn't the link you posted about a white dude getting beat up from the media? I randomly saw a Reginald Denny video on CNN Tuesday. The mass media doesn't routinely report about black people being racist because that is a conversation about an individual or a small group or individuals being racist. When race gets interjected into a national story it is about an institution or a system that may or may not be racist. Frankly there's no institutional racism harming white people. If the media reported with zeal every time someone got beaten up by a racist or racists that would be all that we talk about because it happens everyday.

I think part of my issue is that we need to watch and see how race is being socially constructed in America.  That construction occurs from many parts of society, I think we all agree to that.  I think we need to recognize all of racism, whether it be a black on white hate crime or white privileged.  I think we need to talk about race a lot so jackasses like Bill O don't get away with saying white privilege doesn't exist and so that old white affluent foxnews viewers feel uncomfortable because their segment of society is built on the backs of so many others. 

To the point about institutional racism hurting white, yes its few and far between, but does occur.  But having real racism institutionalized until the 80s, I have no problem with a finger of some kind on the scales, but we should recognize it does have a negative impact on some (rather than a wholesale group.).

[Mr Bread]

Only time I've ever heard of institutional racism hurting a white person I knew in real life was when a dude was trying to become a firefighter, and they were hiring black guys ahead of him because the dept. wanted more diversity. Then he went and got another job and was fine anyway. I'm sure there's some, but I've never really seen or experienced it like, ever.

I'm fine with this. We crap on their people for years and still kind of do so if it's a tie or even if the black guy is merely competent I say give it to the black guy.

For every job out there or just firefighters?

[michigancat]

Only time I've ever heard of institutional racism hurting a white person I knew in real life was when a dude was trying to become a firefighter, and they were hiring black guys ahead of him because the dept. wanted more diversity. Then he went and got another job and was fine anyway. I'm sure there's some, but I've never really seen or experienced it like, ever.

I'm fine with this. We crap on their people for years and still kind of do so if it's a tie or even if the black guy is merely competent I say give it to the black guy.

For every job out there or just firefighters?

It definitely depends on the job. But I think there are other examples of jobs that are overwhelmed with qualified applicants that would all perform equally well given the opportunity.

I know there was a study on the performance of black applicants admitted to Michigan Law school, I believe, that were qualified for admittance but likely would have been denied if they had been white. The black students performed just as well as the "more qualified" white applicants. I'm away from a computer or I'd look it up for you.

But firefighters are a perfect example. It's overflowing with qualified applicants who could all perform the job equally well - give a black guy the job if he's qualified.

[Emo EMAW]

We?


Sent using Tapatalk Elite on iPhone 6

[michigancat]

We?


Sent using Tapatalk Elite on iPhone 6

we=American society

[Cartierfor3]

Only time I've ever heard of institutional racism hurting a white person I knew in real life was when a dude was trying to become a firefighter, and they were hiring black guys ahead of him because the dept. wanted more diversity. Then he went and got another job and was fine anyway. I'm sure there's some, but I've never really seen or experienced it like, ever.

I'm fine with this. We crap on their people for years and still kind of do so if it's a tie or even if the black guy is merely competent I say give it to the black guy.

Yeah and I think most of the time, this isn't how it works anyway. Plus like I said, the white dude just went and worked somewhere else

[Emo EMAW]

We?


Sent using Tapatalk Elite on iPhone 6

we=American society

Well "we" just crossed the border we aren't responsible for your gringo crimes. 

[MakeItRain]

Only time I've ever heard of institutional racism hurting a white person I knew in real life was when a dude was trying to become a firefighter, and they were hiring black guys ahead of him because the dept. wanted more diversity. Then he went and got another job and was fine anyway. I'm sure there's some, but I've never really seen or experienced it like, ever.

Elizabeth Warren had to lie about her race to get into Harvard.

That isn't true at all.


To the larger point about affirmative action; CF3's buddy didn't not get the job because they had to hire black guys, if what RAtM said about Warren were true it isn't because of native americans. I'm sure that firehouse still has an overwhelming majority of white firefighters, I know that a majority of Harvard students are white. Affirmative Action programs simply put safeguards in place to make sure that underrepresented groups are getting a fair shake. There are no cases of affirmative action forcing universities or employers to take underqualified minorities in lieu of qualified whites, that's illegal. Saying "I would have gotten that if they didn't give it to that equally qualified mexican" isn't institutional racism, it's like the opposite. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

Only time I've ever heard of institutional racism hurting a white person I knew in real life was when a dude was trying to become a firefighter, and they were hiring black guys ahead of him because the dept. wanted more diversity. Then he went and got another job and was fine anyway. I'm sure there's some, but I've never really seen or experienced it like, ever.

Elizabeth Warren had to lie about her race to get into Harvard.

That isn't true at all.


To the larger point about affirmative action; CF3's buddy didn't not get the job because they had to hire black guys, if what RAtM said about Warren were true it isn't because of native americans. I'm sure that firehouse still has an overwhelming majority of white firefighters, I know that a majority of Harvard students are white. Affirmative Action programs simply put safeguards in place to make sure that underrepresented groups are getting a fair shake. There are no cases of affirmative action forcing universities or employers to take underqualified minorities in lieu of qualified whites, that's illegal. Saying "I would have gotten that if they didn't give it to that equally qualified mexican" isn't institutional racism, it's like the opposite.

Sorry, it should have said "get a job at Harvard." It's true that she might have gotten the job if she had not lied about her race, but it's doubtful she believed that. Otherwise, why lie about her race?

[puniraptor]

its true that i did not lie about my race and i did not get into harvard