Author Topic: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops  (Read 9828 times)

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Online CNS

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2014, 03:52:39 PM »
There is basically two stories there.  I mean, the are both deplorable and both happened. 

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2014, 04:36:29 PM »
kazzoodub, what are your thoughts on the cover up and abuse of trust and power? negligence?

I don't know enough about the case. But if you're saying that some cops are stupid, abusive, and/or are downright corrupt, and there's a double standard that affords them extra protection, you'll get no disagreement from me.

I'm generally cop-leary, but I'm also anti-dumbass. I've gotten my share of stupid traffic citations (not speeding, but really obscure crap) just to raise revenue, and it makes me :curse:, but that's where it stops. I don't put myself in a position to be harmed by dumbass short-man-syndrome PD.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2014, 04:46:30 PM »
I think the argument being made is that some people are born into a certain color of skin that already puts them in a position of being harmed by dumbass short-man-syndrome PD. Here are some videos that seem to convey that idea.

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20141007/bed-stuy/video-nypd-officer-hits-teen-face-with-his-gun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDTbSmF76N8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaaeXIg9kSk

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2014, 04:59:50 PM »
I think the argument being made is that some people are born into a certain color of skin that already puts them in a position of being harmed by dumbass short-man-syndrome PD. Here are some videos that seem to convey that idea.

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20141007/bed-stuy/video-nypd-officer-hits-teen-face-with-his-gun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDTbSmF76N8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaaeXIg9kSk

Not in this thread, but yes, the argument is being made.
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2014, 05:04:32 PM »
I think the argument being made is that some people are born into a certain color of skin that already puts them in a position of being harmed by dumbass short-man-syndrome PD. Here are some videos that seem to convey that idea.

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20141007/bed-stuy/video-nypd-officer-hits-teen-face-with-his-gun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDTbSmF76N8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaaeXIg9kSk

Not in this thread, but yes, the argument is being made.

I legitimately thought I was in the other thread. Oh goEMAW, you crazy place, you.

Offline puniraptor

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2014, 05:07:24 PM »
I think the argument being made is that some people are born into a certain color of skin that already puts them in a position of being harmed by dumbass short-man-syndrome PD. Here are some videos that seem to convey that idea.

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20141007/bed-stuy/video-nypd-officer-hits-teen-face-with-his-gun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDTbSmF76N8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaaeXIg9kSk

Not in this thread, but yes, the argument is being made.

I legitimately thought I was in the other thread. Oh goEMAW, you crazy place, you.

they are about to be the same thread i would guess

Offline puniraptor

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2014, 05:08:40 PM »
I'm thankful the kstate-osu game wasn't in missouri because I would probably would have been killed by a cop.

Offline puniraptor

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2014, 05:20:41 PM »
I got pulled over in Missouri for not having a front license plate (BECAUSE I'M FROM KANSAS) and the cop was huge dick.

asked if I was having a little sunday funday. it was like 9 AM. he also asked why we were there and when we were leaving. Weird "not in my town, mister" bullshit like the motion picture FIRST BLOOD.

nobody got shot, though.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2014, 08:28:49 PM »
I got pulled over in Missouri for not having a front license plate (BECAUSE I'M FROM KANSAS) and the cop was huge dick.

asked if I was having a little sunday funday. it was like 9 AM. he also asked why we were there and when we were leaving. Weird "not in my town, mister" bullshit like the motion picture FIRST BLOOD.

nobody got shot, though.

That's pretty dumb. Did you laugh at the cop or were you more like wtf?
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline Tobias

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2014, 09:10:59 PM »
I got pulled over in Missouri for not having a front license plate (BECAUSE I'M FROM KANSAS) and the cop was huge dick.

asked if I was having a little sunday funday. it was like 9 AM. he also asked why we were there and when we were leaving. Weird "not in my town, mister" bullshit like the motion picture FIRST BLOOD.

nobody got shot, though.

don't start no crap won't be no crap, you're lucky

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2014, 09:56:19 PM »
So this summer this kid from Iowa named Brandon Ellingson took a trip to the Ozarks and decided to do a little underaged drinking, well his punishment was murder by the Missouri HP. IMO this is much much worse than the Michael Brown incident but it won't get the national media attention. This kid was undoubtedly murdered but because of lying cops and small town cover-ups these cops will literally get away with murder and are still out there "serving" the public, its disgusting.

Murder? Are you serious? The trooper was negligent, but he didn't intend to kill the kid. The kid wasn't just drunk - he was rough ridin' plowed. Had a BAC of .268. (For an added dose of irony, the name of the boat was "Sotally Tober"). The trooper mumped up by putting the wrong life vest on him. He was poorly trained. So if you want to be outraged about a poorly trained trooper negligently drowning a kid - that's a-ok - but to call this "murder" is ridiculous.

Yes, murder. He knew as he was doing it that he didn't use the proper PFD. He knew he was speeding on that boat with a passenger as secure as an eight pound sack of potatoes. He knew he did not follow proper rescue procedure nor did he expediently request assistance. He was so aware of the mistakes he made that the cover up began immediately when reporting the drowning. He didn't care about helping the man he unceremoniously dumped in a lake when he contacted dispatch, his thought process went immediately covering his ass. He murdered that man. If I were on a boat on the Ozarks and my buddy was 20 years old and passed out drunk and while he was passed out drunk I drove my boat 40+ MPH while he was passed out just a foot from the edge of the boat and he fell out and drowned I would be charged with murder.

If we continue to let officers do things like this without impunity they will continue to kill people. At some point, police officers who have received training to keep people alive, to take an oath "To Serve and Protect," have to be held to a higher standard. What happened on that lake wasn't a mistake that led to the unfortunate death of someone, there were several wreckless, careless acts that if any of them were done properly Brandon would have had a night in the drunk tank and would have been able to live his life. Did that pig need training to not put a life jacket on someone that requires their arms to go in it but not actually put the man's arms in the jacket? Did that pig need proper training not to secure that man in the boat? Did that pig need proper training to not drive twice the proper speed when carrying a drunk and handcuffed passenger a foot from the edge of the rough ridin' boat?

These wreckless, careless acts were performed by people that are intrusted to be better. The officer directly responsible for killing Brandon should be charged with murder. The decision makers who allowed this dangerous situation to happen in the guise of saving a buck should be charged with homicide. Everyone involved in the cover up including the dispatcher, and the county attorney should face federal charges. Getting a badge should not be a license to kill. Is that what you're advocating?

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2014, 10:03:05 PM »
I followed that story all summer. Really bad. The cops screwed up, but do not face consequences. Rinse, repeat.
Still boils down to when you do stupid crap... sometimes you die.  Deserve has nothing to do with it.

So if you break the law, any law you have done stupid crap and its cool that you die as a result of that?

DNR article, but the radio coverage said the d00d was more than slightly inebriated.  Supposedly, he was super duper drunk.

Too lazy to watch the damn video? Why did you comment if you didn't choose to take 10 minutes to educate yourself? How drunk he was is of zero consequence. Actually if you took the time to gain some knowledge we could actually have a conversation about how drunk Brandon was could actually be used against the cop.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2014, 10:12:21 PM »
You're right to be upset about this, MIT, but you're wrong to call it murder. You detract from your argument by reaching too far.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2014, 10:23:18 PM »
You're right to be upset about this, MIT, but you're wrong to call it murder. You detract from your argument by reaching too far.

I made my case, just because you don't agree doesn't make it a reach.

Quote
Second Degree Murder: Definition

Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as: 1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable "heat of passion"; or 2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life. Second-degree murder may best be viewed as the middle ground between first-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter.
- See more at: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/second-degree-murder-overview.html#sthash.jEvuUbsN.dpuf

I know those backwoods rednecks wouldn't convict him but there is plenty of meat there to charge that pig for murder. I would play that call to the dispatcher about 34,845 times including 20,000 times in a row on a loop during my closing. Brandon Ellingson was murdered.


http://www.abc17news.com/news/eyewitness-to-brandon-ellingsons-drowning-speaks-out/28343292

COLUMBIA, Mo. -

It has been almost five months since Brandon Ellingson drowned at the Lake of the Ozarks, but for the Moreau family it feels like just yesterday.

Twenty-year-old Ellingson drowned while in highway patrol custody after he was arrested for drinking while boating.

He fell overboard while handcuffed and slipped out of his life vest.

A coroner's inquest that was called earlier this month ruled Ellingson's death accidental.

Larry Moreau who witnessed Ellingson in the water that evening of May 31, said it's more than just his moral obligation to share what he saw, it's out of fear.

"That's the first thing that hit us. It was complete horror. How did that happen?"

Those were just some of the thoughts that ran through Moreau's head when he learned the man who fell off the highway patrol boat had drowned.

Ellingson and his life vest floating next to him were about 200 feet away from the Moreau's boat.

Trooper Anthony Piercy's boat was even closer.

Moreau said he saw Piercy and Ellingson standing on the patrol boat when it whizzed past their boat.

It was just moments later when they caught up to patrol boat that was stopped and a person floating near it.

Moreau said he could not figure out what was going on.

The trooper did not have his lights on and was not calling for help.

Moreau could see Ellingson's head above the water and his life vest floating near him.

He did not think Ellingson was drowning because he figured if that was the case he'd have reached for the life vest that was near him.

Since trooper Piercy was not calling for help, the Moreau family left the area.

However, hours later when the Moreau's learned Ellingson was handcuffed, that evening has forever been in their minds.

"We were relieved that the world was going to get to see what we saw from the cameras. It turned into an absolute nightmare because now we are the only ones that saw it," said Moreau.

Piercy did not have a memory card in his camera on May 31.

It was after the corner's inquest when the Moreau family decided to speak out because they do not feel like the truth was given.

Moreau told ABC 17 News he would like to see a federal investigation into this case.

On Wednesday state representatives are meeting for a public hearing in Jefferson City to review the way the highway patrol and water patrol division are managed.

They will also go over the training trooper receive, and if the merger that placed the water patrol into the Missouri State Highway Patrol in 2011 is effective.

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2014, 10:35:18 PM »
I got educated on the story on the radio,  as posted.  I understand the circumstances, appreciate the follow up, tho.

Offline gatoveintisiet

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2014, 10:42:57 PM »
Thanks for pointing out this coverup corruption, I had not heard of this story before today, I find it really disgusting when people lie about important things for personal gain, it should always be met with harsh punishment, if anything else really dishonest like this comes across your desk please keep me in the loop.
You are dipping into the Kool Aid and you don't even know what flavor it is.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2014, 11:41:23 PM »
I got educated on the story on the radio,  as posted.  I understand the circumstances, appreciate the follow up, tho.

Your contribution about how drunk he was leads me to believe otherwise. Unless you think he could have uncuffed himself, put his life jacket on correctly, grew half a foot so he could brace himself on the floor of the boat, and convince the cop not to drive the boat like a rough ridin' idiot, if Ellingson blew a .117.

Offline EMAWmeister

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2014, 09:15:07 AM »
The dispatch cop laughing about the other cop wanting to tell the dad he wouldn't be any less dead in the morning was one of the most disturbing things I've ever heard.

Offline Spracne

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2014, 09:33:10 AM »
The dispatch cop laughing about the other cop wanting to tell the dad he wouldn't be any less dead in the morning was one of the most disturbing things I've ever heard.

I know.  You'd think this was a common occurrence given the nonchalant attitude.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2014, 10:39:51 AM »
I could make a murder rap stick on that loser. 

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2014, 12:01:38 PM »
I got educated on the story on the radio,  as posted.  I understand the circumstances, appreciate the follow up, tho.

Your contribution about how drunk he was leads me to believe otherwise. Unless you think he could have uncuffed himself, put his life jacket on correctly, grew half a foot so he could brace himself on the floor of the boat, and convince the cop not to drive the boat like a rough ridin' idiot, if Ellingson blew a .117.

Going back through this thread, I realize that I deleted my initial post about this topic.  I fully understand that he was very drunk, handcuffed, put in a child's sized life jacket that was not only too small but also put on incorrectly.  I hadn't heard about speed of the boat being an issue, but honestly, imo, that doesn't even matter.  Enough other crap was done wrong.

Having gone back through this thread, I also don't believe I said anything to counter the fact that the cop was in the wrong nor did I say anything to blame the victim. If you could have taken the time to educate yourself on my stance(two or three posts below the one you took issue with), you could have understood this. The post you quoted was followed two or three posts later clarifying that.  I also disagree about your comment regarding how intoxicated the victim was not mattering.  I think the cop should have understood someone that drunk has more potential to be harmed under stupid circumstances and therefore has an elevated duty to make sure something doesn't happen.

If you took the time I think you would have understood that we are same team on this issue.


Offline Skipper44

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2014, 04:37:06 PM »
The dispatch cop laughing about the other cop wanting to tell the dad he wouldn't be any less dead in the morning was one of the most disturbing things I've ever heard.

I know.  You'd think this was a common occurrence given the nonchalant attitude.
there typically is a couple of boating related deaths every summer at LOTO so I am not terribly surprised by the dispatchers attitude.  I imagine that little exchange will keep the deceased's parents on the warpath for the rest of their lives.

Offline Mr Bread

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2014, 05:55:47 PM »
You're right to be upset about this, MIT, but you're wrong to call it murder. You detract from your argument by reaching too far.

I made my case, just because you don't agree doesn't make it a reach.

Quote
Second Degree Murder: Definition

Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as: 1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable "heat of passion"; or 2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life. Second-degree murder may best be viewed as the middle ground between first-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter.
- See more at: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/second-degree-murder-overview.html#sthash.jEvuUbsN.dpuf


I don't think that's the law in MO.

Quote
Second degree murder, penalty.

565.021.

1. A person commits the crime of murder in the second degree if he:

(1) Knowingly causes the death of another person or, with the purpose of causing serious physical injury to another person, causes the death of another person; or

(2) Commits or attempts to commit any felony, and, in the perpetration or the attempted perpetration of such felony or in the flight from the perpetration or attempted perpetration of such felony, another person is killed as a result of the perpetration or attempted perpetration of such felony or immediate flight from the perpetration of such felony or attempted perpetration of such felony.

2. Murder in the second degree is a class A felony, and the punishment for second degree murder shall be in addition to the punishment for commission of a related felony or attempted felony, other than murder or manslaughter.

3. Notwithstanding section 556.046 and section 565.025, in any charge of murder in the second degree, the jury shall be instructed on, or, in a jury-waived trial, the judge shall consider, any and all of the subdivisions in subsection 1 of this section which are supported by the evidence and requested by one of the parties or the court.

Much like Illinois, it appears the best you could hope to get would be involuntary manslaughter. 

Quote
Involuntary manslaughter, penalty.

565.024. 1. A person commits the crime of involuntary manslaughter in the first degree if he or she:

(1) Recklessly causes the death of another person; or

(2) While in an intoxicated condition operates a motor vehicle or vessel in this state and, when so operating, acts with criminal negligence to cause the death of any person; or

(3) While in an intoxicated condition operates a motor vehicle or vessel in this state, and, when so operating, acts with criminal negligence to:

(a) Cause the death of any person not a passenger in the vehicle or vessel operated by the defendant, including the death of an individual that results from the defendant's vehicle leaving a highway, as defined by section 301.010, or the highway's right-of-way; or vessel leaving the water; or

(b) Cause the death of two or more persons; or

(c) Cause the death of any person while he or she has a blood alcohol content of at least eighteen-hundredths of one percent by weight of alcohol in such person's blood; or

(4) Operates a motor vehicle in violation of subsection 2 of section 304.022, and when so operating, acts with criminal negligence to cause the death of any person authorized to operate an emergency vehicle, as defined in section 304.022, while such person is in the performance of official duties;

(5) Operates a vessel in violation of subsections 1 and 2 of section 306.132, and when so operating acts with criminal negligence to cause the death of any person authorized to operate an emergency watercraft, as defined in section 306.132, while such person is in the performance of official duties.

2. Involuntary manslaughter in the first degree under subdivision (1) or (2) of subsection 1 of this section is a class C felony. Involuntary manslaughter in the first degree under subdivision (3) of subsection 1 of this section is a class B felony. A second or subsequent violation of subdivision (3) of subsection 1 of this section is a class A felony. For any violation of subdivision (3) of subsection 1 of this section, the minimum prison term which the defendant must serve shall be eighty-five percent of his or her sentence. Any violation of subdivisions (4) and (5) of subsection 1 of this section is a class B felony.

3. A person commits the crime of involuntary manslaughter in the second degree if he acts with criminal negligence to cause the death of any person.

4. Involuntary manslaughter in the second degree is a class D felony.

Quote
Culpable mental state.

562.016. 1. Except as provided in section 562.026, a person is not guilty of an offense unless he acts with a culpable mental state, that is, unless he acts purposely or knowingly or recklessly or with criminal negligence, as the statute defining the offense may require with respect to the conduct, the result thereof or the attendant circumstances which constitute the material elements of the crime.

2. A person "acts purposely", or with purpose, with respect to his conduct or to a result thereof when it is his conscious object to engage in that conduct or to cause that result.

3. A person "acts knowingly", or with knowledge,

(1) With respect to his conduct or to attendant circumstances when he is aware of the nature of his conduct or that those circumstances exist; or

(2) With respect to a result of his conduct when he is aware that his conduct is practically certain to cause that result.

4. A person "acts recklessly" or is reckless when he consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that circumstances exist or that a result will follow, and such disregard constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care which a reasonable person would exercise in the situation.

5. A person "acts with criminal negligence" or is criminally negligent when he fails to be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that circumstances exist or a result will follow, and such failure constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care which a reasonable person would exercise in the situation.

It's really not close if you look at it dispassionately. 
My prescience is fully engorged.  It throbs with righteous accuracy.  I am sated.

Offline gatoveintisiete

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2014, 06:03:11 PM »
Welp.......... Thats not gonna happen
it’s not like I’m tired of WINNING, but dude, let me catch my breath.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Wanna live, avoid all Missouri cops
« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2014, 07:23:37 PM »
I love having law school students post here, I remember when I researched. 

(Post is a compliment to Bread and Dlew)