The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look

[Rage Against the McKee]

I think evil, weird, and horrible are perfectly fair descriptions of the human sacrifice performed by Aztecs. I think the unwillingness of some of the people sacrificed to volunteer themselves should have been their first sign.

[michigancat]

I think evil, weird, and horrible are perfectly fair descriptions of the human sacrifice performed by Aztecs. I think the unwillingness of some of the people sacrificed to volunteer themselves should have been their first sign.

Pretty much every culture in history has had humans unwillingly killed in the name of some religion.

[michigancat]

I think evil, weird, and horrible are perfectly fair descriptions of the human sacrifice performed by Aztecs. I think the unwillingness of some of the people sacrificed to volunteer themselves should have been their first sign.

Pretty much every culture in history has had humans unwillingly killed in the name of some religion.

So I guess I wouldn't have an issue with the labels as long as we applied them to all cultures

[sys]

I think evil, weird, and horrible are perfectly fair descriptions of the human sacrifice performed by Aztecs. I think the unwillingness of some of the people sacrificed to volunteer themselves should have been their first sign.

Pretty much every culture in history has had humans unwillingly killed in the name of some religion.

So I guess I wouldn't have an issue with the labels as long as we applied them to all cultures

example of some culture in history killing humans for some religious purpose which we do not now condemn as wrong please.


also lol @ you for your transparent panicky grasping for any logical straw to let you escape morally denouncing a native american cultural practice.

[DQ12]

I think evil, weird, and horrible are perfectly fair descriptions of the human sacrifice performed by Aztecs. I think the unwillingness of some of the people sacrificed to volunteer themselves should have been their first sign.

Pretty much every culture in history has had humans unwillingly killed in the name of some religion.

So I guess I wouldn't have an issue with the labels as long as we applied them to all cultures

you drive a hard bargain, what with your requirement for us to agree that ritualistic human sacrifice is evil and weird and horrible across time and cultures.

[michigancat]

I think evil, weird, and horrible are perfectly fair descriptions of the human sacrifice performed by Aztecs. I think the unwillingness of some of the people sacrificed to volunteer themselves should have been their first sign.

Pretty much every culture in history has had humans unwillingly killed in the name of some religion.

So I guess I wouldn't have an issue with the labels as long as we applied them to all cultures

example of some culture in history killing humans for some religious purpose which we do not now condemn as wrong please.


also lol @ you for your transparent panicky grasping for any logical straw to let you escape morally denouncing a native american cultural practice.

Well, you'd have to use the term "religion" pretty broadly to apply to more than just spirits in the sky. Like, you could define something like democracy and general nationalism as religions  (this isn't a new definition I've invented). And in that context pretty much any war kills people unwillingly in the name of a country, which is no more real than a sun god or something. (Others have made this argument better than me and I can't look for them right now)

[michigancat]

This book goes into a lot more detail in the "government is a religion" philosophy.

https://www.amazon.com/Homo-Deus-Brief-History-Tomorrow/dp/0062464310

[sys]

maybe you'd have a clearer argument for your democracy thing if you used the death penalty?  but that's intended as a punishment for a transgression, so maybe not?

we do, very definitely, have the idea that there are just wars and unjust wars, but i suppose you could argue that those are definitions usually speciously applied.


my father actually gave me that homo deus book for christmas, but i haven't read it yet.

[bubbles4ksu]

This book goes into a lot more detail in the "government is a religion" philosophy.

https://www.amazon.com/Homo-Deus-Brief-History-Tomorrow/dp/0062464310

that book is the most depressing thing ever written. i wouldn't recommend it to my worst enemy.

[michigancat]

maybe you'd have a clearer argument for your democracy thing if you used the death penalty?  but that's intended as a punishment for a transgression, so maybe not?

for sure. Even if it's "punishment for a transgression" it's a sacrifice to the religion of justice.

we do, very definitely, have the idea that there are just wars and unjust wars, but i suppose you could argue that those are definitions usually speciously applied.

yeah ideas of "just wars" generally require some sort of religion to justify or condemn. And someone's pretty much always unwillingly killed. (I suppose you could fight a war where everyone willingly dies, but whatevs)

This book goes into a lot more detail in the "government is a religion" philosophy.

https://www.amazon.com/Homo-Deus-Brief-History-Tomorrow/dp/0062464310

that book is the most depressing thing ever written. i wouldn't recommend it to my worst enemy.

yes it's a major downer for sure. But some interesting things to ponder (he also got into how future generations might view us raising animals for mass slaughter)

[CHONGS]

I saw someone arguing that Cortes was good because he sniffed out such an evil people. True genius logic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

the scale of human sacrifice and ritual cannibalism in the americas isn't given its due in social studies classrooms. most people don't even know that aztecs were routinely eating their neighbors a mere 500 years ago. really remarkable stuff.

Pre-Colombian Mesoamerican culture is given like maybe a couple of hours total, but yeah most people don't know much about it. 

I wouldn't say routinely eating, and certainly not everybody got to partake, but indeed it did happen.  No one truly knows the numbers, but the carnage surrounding the re-dedication of the huei teocalli must have been staggering.

[sys]

i think we can take it as a given than some future societies will morally condemn some of our current practices as abhorrent.  but we are all blind to our own blindness.  do you have any examples from the past or from current cultures sufficiently alien to our own that we do not consider ourselves to share the same culture?

[CHONGS]

Examples of what again? 

[sys]

i can, maybe, think of one.  but it's a bit messy.

[sys]

Examples of what again?

michigancat needs to know that there aren't any examples of cultures killing unwilling human victims for religious reasons that we don't condemn in order to not feel like a racist for saying that human sacrifice as practiced by mesoamericans is immoral.

[bubbles4ksu]

yes it's a major downer for sure. But some interesting things to ponder (he also got into how future generations might view us raising animals for mass slaughter)

yeah! he goes into perfect detail on the mother-offspring bond in mammals and the whole time you know he's setting up to talk about factory farming with the same precision. most dreadful time i've spent in awhile.

[bubbles4ksu]

I saw someone arguing that Cortes was good because he sniffed out such an evil people. True genius logic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

the scale of human sacrifice and ritual cannibalism in the americas isn't given its due in social studies classrooms. most people don't even know that aztecs were routinely eating their neighbors a mere 500 years ago. really remarkable stuff.

Pre-Colombian Mesoamerican culture is given like maybe a couple of hours total, but yeah most people don't know much about it. 

I wouldn't say routinely eating, and certainly not everybody got to partake, but indeed it did happen.  No one truly knows the numbers, but the carnage surrounding the re-dedication of the huei teocalli must have been staggering.

i phrased it like i did because kat kid, but it really is fascinating history. some extremely intense human drama.

[CHONGS]

I assume "immoral" means with respect to modern Western mores.

But, yes, I doubt you will find any easy examples of sacrificial killings that are considered moral by today's standards.  The most modern would be lynchings, but those are mainly frowned upon by most these days.


 

[sys]

I assume "immoral" means with respect to modern Western mores.

i mean with respect to what i consider immoral.  i assume most of you mostly think along similar lines as i do, but i'm certainly not going to be responsible for any of you ungodly deviants.

[catastrophe]

maybe you'd have a clearer argument for your democracy thing if you used the death penalty?  but that's intended as a punishment for a transgression, so maybe not?

for sure. Even if it's "punishment for a transgression" it's a sacrifice to the religion of justice.

 

[CHONGS]

I assume "immoral" means with respect to modern Western mores.

i mean with respect to what i consider immoral.  i assume most of you mostly think along similar lines as i do, but i'm certainly not going to be responsible for any of you ungodly deviants.

Well we are all Americans here.

[michigancat]

maybe you'd have a clearer argument for your democracy thing if you used the death penalty?  but that's intended as a punishment for a transgression, so maybe not?

for sure. Even if it's "punishment for a transgression" it's a sacrifice to the religion of justice.

 

Iraq war casualties are human sacrifices to the religions of democracy and capitalism

[catastrophe]

Yes, and my eating a whole pizza is a sacrifice to the religion of hedonism.

You're using the term in a way that makes it completely meaningless.

[michigancat]

Yes, and my eating a whole pizza is a sacrifice to the religion of hedonism.

You're using the term in a way that makes it completely meaningless.

Well, that's not killing a human, but OK. If something like deomcracy isn't "religion" as you would like it defined, is killing in the name of a government morally acceptable, but killing in the name of religion (as you define it) morally unacceptable?

Is it the ritual aspect that makes the religious killing morally unacceptable?

[catastrophe]

Yes, and my eating a whole pizza is a sacrifice to the religion of hedonism.

You're using the term in a way that makes it completely meaningless.

Well, that's not killing a human, but OK. If something like deomcracy isn't "religion" as you would like it defined, is killing in the name of a government morally acceptable, but killing in the name of religion (as you define it) morally unacceptable?

Is it the ritual aspect that makes the religious killing morally unacceptable?

Well the problem is you’re now taking human sacrifice as meaning the same as killing, and then just adding ridiculous things at the end to make it sound more sacrifice-y.

Pretty much everyone today agrees that ritual sacrifice serves no purpose, which makes it clearly immoral given the cost (human life).

As far as killing for country and killing for religion, those categories are just too broad. I don’t think death is the point of any war, it’s just a byproduct of self defense / self preservation in many cases. I feel comfortable saying that the decision to get us into the Vietnam war was mostly immoral, but for a soldier who was drafted and dumped over there, I don’t think it’s necessarily immoral that he kills someone.

There may be a similar example for religion but Im too lazy to think of one right now. It seems a lot harder to have a moral religious killing, though.