Author Topic: Trump owns Russia (Read 766056 times)

sys · « **Reply #7200 on:** August 13, 2018, 05:40:11 PM »

i wasn't arguing only in terms of a lawsuit, but since you are, is proportionality not an important consideration in the law?

Spracne · « **Reply #7201 on:** August 13, 2018, 05:43:25 PM »

Quote from: sys on August 13, 2018, 05:40:11 PM

i wasn't arguing only in terms of a lawsuit, but since you are, is proportionality not an important consideration in the law?

Sorry, I thought we were talking about the First Amendment, still. And I'm not sure if you're using proportionality in a legal, technical sense or in a general sense.

sys · « **Reply #7202 on:** August 13, 2018, 06:42:09 PM »

probably pretty general since i don't know the law.

in the sense that if someone is sentenced to life for stealing a car, even if guilty, as i understand it, they would likely have some legal redress as the punishment would be considered not proportional to the crime.

in this case, if strzok were to pursue some legal remedy, even it was accepted that his actions were sanctionable, i would think he could challenge that he was dismissed against the recommendations of the internal fbi report. perhaps he would also need to show not just that such an action was inconsistent with agency practice, but also that there was prejudicial influence or something of the like? if so, i would think that the constant adversarial tweeting of the president would be material.

sys · « **Reply #7203 on:** August 13, 2018, 06:43:43 PM »

he is a civil servant, correct? not a political appointee. now that i think about it, i'm not positive of that.

sys · « **Reply #7204 on:** August 13, 2018, 06:47:07 PM »

googled it. he was a civil servant.

Spracne · « **Reply #7205 on:** August 13, 2018, 06:54:25 PM »

Quote from: sys on August 13, 2018, 06:42:09 PM

probably pretty general since i don't know the law.

in the sense that if someone is sentenced to life for stealing a car, even if guilty, as i understand it, they would likely have some legal redress as the punishment would be considered not proportional to the crime.

in this case, if strzok were to pursue some legal remedy, even it was accepted that his actions were sanctionable, i would think he could challenge that he was dismissed against the recommendations of the internal fbi report. perhaps he would also need to show not just that such an action was inconsistent with agency practice, but also that there was prejudicial influence or something of the like? if so, i would think that the constant adversarial tweeting of the president would be material.

I'm not an expert in employment law. He may have some remedy outside the First Amendment, and I can't speak to that. I was simply responding to Phil's First Amendment question. But to respond to your supposition, I think a reasonable fact finder could find that termination is a proportionate sanction. Even the appearance of impropriety in the nation's top law enforcement agency is quite damaging to the effectiveness and trustworthiness of the FBI's mission. This is an investigation that could potentially lead to charges against and impeachment of the President of the United States. The government's interests here could easily be found to outweigh Strzok's interest in speaking freely in the manner he did. I wonder, did Strzok speak freely when he looked his wife in the eyes and lied repeatedly about Lisa Page?

sys · « **Reply #7206 on:** August 13, 2018, 07:09:14 PM »

https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1029034216858632192

popehat basically says the exact same thing as you, spracne. but also begs off on non-1st amendment stuff. my understanding is that civil servants have pretty nice employment rights (and maybe we'll find out), but i dunno.

off topic, but i would guess that strzok did speak freely when looking his wife in the eye and lying about the lovely lisa page. but some people aren't great at lying and having the added pressure of looking her in the eyes may have shackled his speech.

K-S-U-Wildcats! · « **Reply #7207 on:** August 13, 2018, 07:14:09 PM »

If there’s one thing that’s important right now, it’s performing a thorough analysis of whether the FBI followed proper internal protocol in firing a scumbag who at bare minimum tarnished its reputation, and possibly corrupted important investigations.

Phil Titola · « **Reply #7208 on:** August 13, 2018, 07:46:38 PM »

Quote from: K-S-U-Wildcats! on August 13, 2018, 07:14:09 PM

If there’s one thing that’s important right now, it’s performing a thorough analysis of whether the FBI followed proper internal protocol in firing a scumbag who at bare minimum tarnished its reputation, and possibly corrupted important investigations.

Nothing has come out to remotely suggest the later.

sonofdaxjones · « **Reply #7209 on:** August 14, 2018, 08:33:04 AM »

Bureaucrats never protect their own.

steve dave · « **Reply #7210 on:** August 14, 2018, 08:42:38 AM »

calm, cool, collected. not freaking the eff out at all.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1029338578239795200

wetwillie · « **Reply #7211 on:** August 14, 2018, 08:53:18 AM »

Think Sessions has had to pick up the fake ants off the desk in the oval a bunch lately?

star seed 7 · « **Reply #7212 on:** August 14, 2018, 09:02:48 AM »

Jefferson gets the defective Mexican ants, I'm sure of it

chum1 · « **Reply #7213 on:** August 14, 2018, 11:54:34 AM »

https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1029333339076014082

chum1 · « **Reply #7214 on:** August 14, 2018, 01:59:44 PM »

lol

https://twitter.com/KenDilanianNBC/status/1029428618575990786

Phil Titola · « **Reply #7215 on:** August 14, 2018, 03:14:57 PM »

It would only be right for a reality star reject to take down a reality star.

renocat · « **Reply #7216 on:** August 14, 2018, 03:18:48 PM »

John Brennan is the mastermind behind all of this. He is a communist leading a coup

DaBigTrain · « **Reply #7217 on:** August 14, 2018, 04:03:58 PM »

I’m shocked, SHOCKED!

sonofdaxjones · « **Reply #7218 on:** August 14, 2018, 04:49:33 PM »

LOL, everyone with a hint of a clue in Washington and points beyond knew the DNC got hacked. One of the problems they had is apparently DNC staffers really like porn.

chum1 · « **Reply #7219 on:** August 15, 2018, 07:27:10 AM »

https://twitter.com/evanperez/status/1029617261601017857

Rage Against the McKee · « **Reply #7220 on:** August 15, 2018, 08:37:13 AM »

Quote from: sonofdaxjones on August 14, 2018, 04:49:33 PM

LOL, everyone with a hint of a clue in Washington and points beyond knew the DNC got hacked. One of the problems they had is apparently DNC staffers really like porn.

I believe it to be a generational thing.

sonofdaxjones · « **Reply #7221 on:** August 15, 2018, 08:38:04 AM »

If you've been in contact with any representative for a foreign country working in any type of diplomatic capacity then you've likely been in contact with someone with "ties" to that countries intelligence operation.

Anyone meeting with anyone working for the United States in a diplomatic mission has likely met with someone with "ties" to U.S. intelligence.

A

catch all that simpletons eat up.

sonofdaxjones · « **Reply #7222 on:** August 15, 2018, 08:38:36 AM »

Quote from: Rage Against the McKee on August 15, 2018, 08:37:13 AM

Quote from: sonofdaxjones on August 14, 2018, 04:49:33 PM
LOL, everyone with a hint of a clue in Washington and points beyond knew the DNC got hacked. One of the problems they had is apparently DNC staffers really like porn.

I believe it to be a generational thing.

Tapping out before you've even started.

Sad

chum1 · « **Reply #7223 on:** August 15, 2018, 08:52:17 AM »

Quote from: sonofdaxjones on August 15, 2018, 08:38:04 AM

If you've been in contact with any representative for a foreign country working in any type of diplomatic capacity then you've likely been in contact with someone with "ties" to that countries intelligence operation.

Anyone meeting with anyone working for the United States in a diplomatic mission has likely met with someone with "ties" to U.S. intelligence.

A catch all that simpletons eat up.

I admire your ability to compartmentalize a hundred individual details and have absolutely zero curiosity about how they might be related to each another.

sonofdaxjones · « **Reply #7224 on:** August 15, 2018, 08:55:11 AM »

http://thefederalist.com/2018/08/15/new-details-show-firing-strzok-didnt-remove-compromised-fbi-agents-involved-russiagate/