Nino

[kso_FAN]

I know guys get better but after seeing steady and small growth through 3 years and then making a jump surprised me.  I didn't look at points per 100 so I can see where that would make some sense to those who do.  To say the coaches put too much on him is probably unfair, as they see him play everyday and know more than I what he is capable of.  oscar's comments just fed into that belief of mine.  If he is so inconsistent and can't be relied upon, why are relying upon him?

I agree completely that oscar's comment was not well thought out and pretty dumb. I'm glad Nino is back to playing well though.

[sys]

Foster is easily our best/most valuable player

based on what?  he's a great shooter.  he's a pretty good passer (but a little limited by his handles).  what else does he do to help the team?

[kso_FAN]

Oh man, nothing like a good sys/rusty discussion.

[michigancat]

Foster is easily our best/most valuable player

based on what?  he's a great shooter.  he's a pretty good passer (but a little limited by his handles).  what else does he do to help the team?

Is anyone else on the team great at anything? If they are, is it more helpful than great shooting?

Also, he's the best on the team at creating off the dribble. He's not great, but he's arguably above average, (largely because he's such a dangerous shooter).

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

he's always been a scoring machine.  i don't think it's surprising at all.  he's doing exactly what he's done his entire career.

the weber comment about him being super inconsistent, aside from being an utterly bad person and contemptuous thing to say, was also completely wrong.  he's been a very consistent player (when he's been on the court.  when he hasn't played, maybe it's because he wasn't practicing consistently, i have no idea).


btw, i also don't think it should be assumed that foster is the best player.  it's possible he is, but if he is it's not by much at all.

True, but I think most associate best scorer as best player.

Foster is easily our best/most valuable player, since he got his crap straight after being benched.

[sys]

Is anyone else on the team great at anything? If they are, is it more helpful than great shooting?

Also, he's the best on the team at creating off the dribble. He's not great, but he's arguably above average, (largely because he's such a dangerous shooter).

i'm not saying he's not the best player, just that it's not so clear cut.  i find it very hard to compare since the other candidates are so different.  gip plays good defense, scores like a machine if he gets the ball in good position, rebounds ok, gets to the line like a machine, but his usage is really low.  nino scores efficiently at a decently high usage, might be the best rebounder on the team, is a better defender than foster (i realize that is controversial), never turns the ball over.

foster should be the best player on the team, but i'm not sure he actually is.  i also don't agree that he's above average creating off the dribble.  he's well below average (big 12 average).  he hurts the team by not oboarding at all, but not being a good enough a ball handler at the 2 to relieve pressure from our poor pgs (didn't you used to argue that all teams should play two pgs, hard to do that with foster on the court) and defensively.  but he's an amazing shooter.

[bunter]

Nino played great yesterday, but when I see Westicles I see the future. The length and driving are great, but like all of our players needs to be able to finish close to the rim.

[michigancat]

I didn't realize how elite Gip was at drawing fouls. And Jevon is good at it too!

It's interesting that Gip is shooting quite a bit less than he ever has.

[kso_FAN]

It's interesting that Gip is shooting quite a bit less than he ever has.

Yeah, he was amazingly consistent (%shots) his first 3 years and now the drop. Part of his FT rate being so high is that he isn't shooting nearly as much.

[Kat Kid]

Gip has been criminally mismanaged this year.

[kso_FAN]

Gip has been criminally mismanaged this year.

True, but look at who we have trying to get him the ball. I'm sure he misses Shane and Will a lot. Plus he's been in foul trouble a decent amount of time.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

If gip learned how to pass out of the double team, he'd probably get double teamed less

[Kat Kid]

Gip has been criminally mismanaged this year.

True, but look at who we have trying to get him the ball. I'm sure he misses Shane and Will a lot. Plus he's been in foul trouble a decent amount of time.

I think the way most coaches manage players in "foul trouble" is criminal so that's not fair.  I also think the fact that we can't get him the ball is mostly on the coaching staff and somewhat on our poor passing.

[kso_FAN]

If gip learned how to pass out of the double team, he'd probably get double teamed less

This is also true.

[michigancat]

It's still clear Foster is our best player. Back to the basket play just isn't as valuable as guard play.

[MakeItRain]

If gip learned how to pass out of the double team, he'd probably get double teamed less

This is also true.

No it isn't. I don't know why you guys act like he's some kind of turnover machine. He gets doubled because he's a threat to score, and we don't have enough players that will knock down enough shots to keep them honest.

[kso_FAN]

If gip learned how to pass out of the double team, he'd probably get double teamed less

This is also true.

No it isn't. I don't know why you guys act like he's some kind of turnover machine. He gets doubled because he's a threat to score, and we don't have enough players that will knock down enough shots to keep them honest.

He still is not great at passing out of double teams. Nobody said he was turnover machine and he usually gets it away before the trap happens, but when he does get trapped he doesn't ball fake and often tries to throw through the hands of the defenders. I agree part of it is we don't have other threats, but also because it can be effective if you get the trap set. It also hurts that he's not really that tall or long.

[MakeItRain]

If gip learned how to pass out of the double team, he'd probably get double teamed less

This is also true.

No it isn't. I don't know why you guys act like he's some kind of turnover machine. He gets doubled because he's a threat to score, and we don't have enough players that will knock down enough shots to keep them honest.

He still is not great at passing out of double teams. Nobody said he was turnover machine and he usually gets it away before the trap happens, but when he does get trapped he doesn't ball fake and often tries to throw through the hands of the defenders. I agree part of it is we don't have other threats, but also because it can be effective if you get the trap set. It also hurts that he's not really that tall or long.

Close enough to agreement. I was mainly contending that even if Gip was an amazing passer out of the double he would still get doubled by every defender other than the guy who is guarding Marcus. The doubles get the ball out of the hands of our second most effective scorer and it forces the ball into the hands of someone who is limited offensively. It's exactly why Self will run a triangle and two at us.

[michigancat]

It's amazing that we have one legitimate three point shooting threat. This, as MiR mentioned, along with an inability of the coaching staff to put any other player in a position to be successful out of a Gip double really reduces his effectiveness.

[kso_FAN]

It's amazing that we have one legitimate three point shooting threat. This, as MiR mentioned, along with an inability of the coaching staff to put any other player in a position to be successful out of a Gip double really reduces his effectiveness.

Yeah, Harris must be really bad at everything other than shooting.

[michigancat]

It's amazing that we have one legitimate three point shooting threat. This, as MiR mentioned, along with an inability of the coaching staff to put any other player in a position to be successful out of a Gip double really reduces his effectiveness.

Yeah, Harris must be really bad at everything other than shooting.

I realize people half-joke about missing Will Spradling, but both he and Shane presented legit threats from 3. I'm surprised our offense is as close to last years' as it is (adj. kenpom, our conference-only raw numbers are WAY lower than last year)

[Clevey 2 Times]

If gip learned how to pass out of the double team, he'd probably get double teamed less

This is also true.

No it isn't. I don't know why you guys act like he's some kind of turnover machine. He gets doubled because he's a threat to score, and we don't have enough players that will knock down enough shots to keep them honest.

He still is not great at passing out of double teams. Nobody said he was turnover machine and he usually gets it away before the trap happens, but when he does get trapped he doesn't ball fake and often tries to throw through the hands of the defenders. I agree part of it is we don't have other threats, but also because it can be effective if you get the trap set. It also hurts that he's not really that tall or long.

Close enough to agreement. I was mainly contending that even if Gip was an amazing passer out of the double he would still get doubled by every defender other than the guy who is guarding Marcus. The doubles get the ball out of the hands of our second most effective scorer and it forces the ball into the hands of someone who is limited offensively. It's exactly why Self will run a triangle and two at us.

Oh god, this just gave me chills. That could really kill us.

[Kat Kid]

It's amazing that we have one legitimate three point shooting threat. This, as MiR mentioned, along with an inability of the coaching staff to put any other player in a position to be successful out of a Gip double really reduces his effectiveness.

YES!  Passing to a 3 point shooter is not the only alternative!

[Gooch]

The only endearing quality to Nino is his absolute love to eff with the ball after a made basket before getting back on defense.

[420seriouscat69]

Mir and trim hate him.

What?
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=34211.msg1298603#msg1298603
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=34211.msg1298633#msg1298633

Also stop lumping me in with whatever weird stalker crap you have with trim. You can't justify using me as a target of your little temper tantrums with some kind of private phone call like you try with trim. You keep bringing me up because you think I am some BIDer because you are too simple to understand nuance. Every time you do this you come off as the foolish cartoon parody you apparently need to be.

Wut?