Author Topic: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread  (Read 106121 times)

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Offline WildcatPower

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #250 on: October 07, 2017, 11:40:03 PM »
The "should we have gone for two" argument is meaningless because it is so simple. If you go for two and it works, it was the right call. If you go for two and it doesn't work (Georgia Tech vs. Tennessee this year), then it wasn't the right call. Likewise, if you don't go for two, kick the PAT instead, and ultimately lose, then you should've gone for two. If you went for two and missed, you should've kicked the PAT.

Far too much hand-wringing goes on about the should we/shouldn't we have gone for two. The answer is way more obvious than people want to make it.


But yeah, to me I was far more infuriated when we got the ball back with a minute and a half left to go and had no rough ridin' clue whether we were trying to drive downfield and kick a game winner or run out the clock. It was embarrassing and super bushleague.

The thing was, when Delton scored that TD in OT1, I had absolutely zero confidence on our defense and the defensive coaches to even muster up a stop, and that K-State had the momentum on that drive, I would have gone for two.

That's really stupid, the defense allowed 6 second half points.

Nobody's talking about the second half.  We're specifically talking about OT.  And on top of that, on the very first play, in overtime, a blown coverage netted Texas a TD.  When that happened, I had no confidence at all that our defense was going to hold them off.

The 2nd OT proved it.  They were gassed and was completely dominated.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 11:45:29 PM by WildcatPower »

Offline SkinnyBenny

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #251 on: October 07, 2017, 11:42:57 PM »
The "should we have gone for two" argument is meaningless because it is so simple. If you go for two and it works, it was the right call. If you go for two and it doesn't work (Georgia Tech vs. Tennessee this year), then it wasn't the right call. Likewise, if you don't go for two, kick the PAT instead, and ultimately lose, then you should've gone for two. If you went for two and missed, you should've kicked the PAT.

Far too much hand-wringing goes on about the should we/shouldn't we have gone for two. The answer is way more obvious than people want to make it.


But yeah, to me I was far more infuriated when we got the ball back with a minute and a half left to go and had no rough ridin' clue whether we were trying to drive downfield and kick a game winner or run out the clock. It was embarrassing and super bushleague.

The thing was, when Delton scored that TD in OT1, I had absolutely zero confidence on our defense and the defensive coaches to even muster up a stop, and that K-State had the momentum on that drive, I would have gone for two.

That's really stupid, the defense allowed 6 second half points.

It's not stupid, it was what basically everyone was thinking. The defense played well, but the 6 second half points stat is thanks to Texas uncharacteristically missing two other field goals on 2nd half drives. Also, they had ALL the momentum at that point in the game. I know you're gonna do your I'm-MIR-I'm-Super-Blowhardy-And-Stubborn thing where you just argue and argue and argue until the other people just get tired of it and tap out, but having zero confidence in our defensive coaches/defense to muster a stop was actually the right thing to be feeling. Know why? Because that's exactly what happened. In case you missed it, Texas scored a touchdown on their first play in the first overtime, and then again in the second overtime to win. Proof is in the puddin.
"walking around mhk and crying in the rain because of love lost is the absolute purest and best thing in the world.  i hope i fall in love during the next few weeks and get my heart broken and it starts raining just to experience it one last time."   --Dlew12

Offline Whisker Biscuit

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #252 on: October 07, 2017, 11:43:29 PM »
The "should we have gone for two" argument is meaningless because it is so simple. If you go for two and it works, it was the right call. If you go for two and it doesn't work (Georgia Tech vs. Tennessee this year), then it wasn't the right call. Likewise, if you don't go for two, kick the PAT instead, and ultimately lose, then you should've gone for two. If you went for two and missed, you should've kicked the PAT.

Far too much hand-wringing goes on about the should we/shouldn't we have gone for two. The answer is way more obvious than people want to make it.


But yeah, to me I was far more infuriated when we got the ball back with a minute and a half left to go and had no rough ridin' clue whether we were trying to drive downfield and kick a game winner or run out the clock. It was embarrassing and super bushleague.

The thing was, when Delton scored that TD in OT1, I had absolutely zero confidence on our defense and the defensive coaches to even muster up a stop, and that K-State had the momentum on that drive, I would have gone for two.

That's really stupid, the defense allowed 6 second half points.

this isn't as cut and dried as some are making it out to be.  i was confident in our chances in OT because our kicker was far superior to theirs.  However, going to the 2nd OT, we had the ball first, a significant disadvantage, AND i thought we had the UT d on their heels during that OT1 drive and liked our chances of getting 2 yards to win it.  it merited consideration.  i was ok with the decision but would have also been ok going for it.

Offline delerioustyme

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #253 on: October 07, 2017, 11:58:16 PM »
We couldn’t stop their offense.  Our best Defense was them missing FGs and getting penalties. 

Our offense was once again, a Dimel crap show.  Running sweeps and options to the short side of the field, 3 WR’s running to the same spot on the field, and his son either missing blocks or getting called for holding.  And he finally runs a play action on 3rd and long with the clock under a minute?  Ef me if Dimel isn’t the dumbest OC of all time.  It’s almost like we are dating him to screw it up worse than the last time. 


He trippin' so much, fans gonna begin to think he done fell off!

Offline Whisker Biscuit

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #254 on: October 08, 2017, 12:00:32 AM »
I think statistically we had a much better win percentage to go for 2 in OT1.  The more i think about it the more i think it was the right call.  I think we had a 60-65% chance to win in OT1 given we got the ball last.  I think that dropped to 50-55% in OT2 because we got the ball first (still favored based on our superior kicker).  I think there was at least a 65-70% chance we get the 2 yards to win.  Maybe higher if we had a specific play just for the situation.


Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #255 on: October 08, 2017, 12:24:04 AM »
The "should we have gone for two" argument is meaningless because it is so simple. If you go for two and it works, it was the right call. If you go for two and it doesn't work (Georgia Tech vs. Tennessee this year), then it wasn't the right call. Likewise, if you don't go for two, kick the PAT instead, and ultimately lose, then you should've gone for two. If you went for two and missed, you should've kicked the PAT.

Far too much hand-wringing goes on about the should we/shouldn't we have gone for two. The answer is way more obvious than people want to make it.


But yeah, to me I was far more infuriated when we got the ball back with a minute and a half left to go and had no rough ridin' clue whether we were trying to drive downfield and kick a game winner or run out the clock. It was embarrassing and super bushleague.

The thing was, when Delton scored that TD in OT1, I had absolutely zero confidence on our defense and the defensive coaches to even muster up a stop, and that K-State had the momentum on that drive, I would have gone for two.

That's really stupid, the defense allowed 6 second half points.

It's not stupid, it was what basically everyone was thinking. The defense played well, but the 6 second half points stat is thanks to Texas uncharacteristically missing two other field goals on 2nd half drives. Also, they had ALL the momentum at that point in the game. I know you're gonna do your I'm-MIR-I'm-Super-Blowhardy-And-Stubborn thing where you just argue and argue and argue until the other people just get tired of it and tap out, but having zero confidence in our defensive coaches/defense to muster a stop was actually the right thing to be feeling. Know why? Because that's exactly what happened. In case you missed it, Texas scored a touchdown on their first play in the first overtime, and then again in the second overtime to win. Proof is in the puddin.

What the hell does this mean, should I not have a differing opinion? It's a discussion board, stop being weird.

Offline SkinnyBenny

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #256 on: October 08, 2017, 12:29:12 AM »
Nah, you can have a differing opinion, just don't be such a blowhardy know-it-all, especially when like 20 people give you counter-examples. it's kinda your thing, you don't have to pretend like you don't know it's happening. own it :dunno:
"walking around mhk and crying in the rain because of love lost is the absolute purest and best thing in the world.  i hope i fall in love during the next few weeks and get my heart broken and it starts raining just to experience it one last time."   --Dlew12

Offline kslim

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #257 on: October 08, 2017, 10:22:15 AM »
K-State is usually the team that makes fewer mistakes and beats teams they should because of that. This year that doesn't seem to be the case.
and not many of them are forced, the coaches fail these players weekly but running bullshit over and over

Offline EMAWzifried

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #258 on: October 08, 2017, 11:48:52 AM »
The third-and-one when we went into the four-and-one formation. eff it. Bring Delton in.

Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #259 on: October 08, 2017, 01:31:44 PM »
The third-and-one when we went into the four-and-one formation. eff it. Bring Delton in.

IIRC, this play resulted in one of the several phantom holding calls.
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Offline Whisker Biscuit

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #260 on: October 08, 2017, 02:35:23 PM »
The third-and-one when we went into the four-and-one formation. eff it. Bring Delton in.

IIRC, this play resulted in one of the several phantom holding calls.

I think you're right....both of the calls on Dimel were horrible.  The ones on Beacham...not so much.

Offline stunted

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #261 on: October 08, 2017, 06:26:21 PM »
i think if bill were given 2 options:

1) have a 55% chance of victory and play to the end of the 4th quarter
2) make a decision with a 60% chance of victory in the 1st quarter, but if it fails, game is over

bill would choose option 1

Offline SkinnyBenny

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #262 on: October 08, 2017, 08:39:29 PM »
i think if bill were given 2 options:

1) have a 55% chance of victory and play to the end of the 4th quarter
2) make a decision with a 60% chance of victory in the 1st quarter, but if it fails, game is over

bill would choose option 1


super normal hypothetical, stunted
"walking around mhk and crying in the rain because of love lost is the absolute purest and best thing in the world.  i hope i fall in love during the next few weeks and get my heart broken and it starts raining just to experience it one last time."   --Dlew12

Online Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #263 on: October 09, 2017, 09:29:33 AM »
I think statistically we had a much better win percentage to go for 2 in OT1.  The more i think about it the more i think it was the right call.  I think we had a 60-65% chance to win in OT1 given we got the ball last.  I think that dropped to 50-55% in OT2 because we got the ball first (still favored based on our superior kicker).  I think there was at least a 65-70% chance we get the 2 yards to win.  Maybe higher if we had a specific play just for the situation.

Do you really think a team that doesn't have a 2 minute offense has a play for that situation?

Offline kslim

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #264 on: October 09, 2017, 09:49:22 AM »
I think statistically we had a much better win percentage to go for 2 in OT1.  The more i think about it the more i think it was the right call.  I think we had a 60-65% chance to win in OT1 given we got the ball last.  I think that dropped to 50-55% in OT2 because we got the ball first (still favored based on our superior kicker).  I think there was at least a 65-70% chance we get the 2 yards to win.  Maybe higher if we had a specific play just for the situation.

Do you really think a team that doesn't have a 2 minute offense has a play for that situation?
yes, short side option

Offline SkinnyBenny

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #265 on: October 09, 2017, 09:51:04 AM »
 :lol:
"walking around mhk and crying in the rain because of love lost is the absolute purest and best thing in the world.  i hope i fall in love during the next few weeks and get my heart broken and it starts raining just to experience it one last time."   --Dlew12

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #266 on: October 09, 2017, 09:54:37 AM »
I mean, I think that's why we go for 2. Our playbook is pretty much built on 2-3 yard runs that everyone knows are coming.

Offline Whisker Biscuit

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #267 on: October 09, 2017, 01:21:56 PM »
I think statistically we had a much better win percentage to go for 2 in OT1.  The more i think about it the more i think it was the right call.  I think we had a 60-65% chance to win in OT1 given we got the ball last.  I think that dropped to 50-55% in OT2 because we got the ball first (still favored based on our superior kicker).  I think there was at least a 65-70% chance we get the 2 yards to win.  Maybe higher if we had a specific play just for the situation.

Do you really think a team that doesn't have a 2 minute offense has a play for that situation?

Yes, i do.  That said, i've been pretty skeptical of the posts throwing the coaches under the bus....until i rewatched the game and listened to our captains try to defer when they won the toss before OT.  That was incredibly disappointing and I'm not sure how that even happens with a Snyder coached team.  His attention to detail is well known....it has me a little worried.

Offline Sandstone Outcropping

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #268 on: October 09, 2017, 01:33:33 PM »
I think statistically we had a much better win percentage to go for 2 in OT1.  The more i think about it the more i think it was the right call.  I think we had a 60-65% chance to win in OT1 given we got the ball last.  I think that dropped to 50-55% in OT2 because we got the ball first (still favored based on our superior kicker).  I think there was at least a 65-70% chance we get the 2 yards to win.  Maybe higher if we had a specific play just for the situation.

Do you really think a team that doesn't have a 2 minute offense has a play for that situation?

Yes, i do.  That said, i've been pretty skeptical of the posts throwing the coaches under the bus....until i rewatched the game and listened to our captains try to defer when they won the toss before OT.  That was incredibly disappointing and I'm not sure how that even happens with a Snyder coached team.  His attention to detail is well known....it has me a little worried.
Not sure if serious...

Offline kslim

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #269 on: October 09, 2017, 01:40:34 PM »
I think statistically we had a much better win percentage to go for 2 in OT1.  The more i think about it the more i think it was the right call.  I think we had a 60-65% chance to win in OT1 given we got the ball last.  I think that dropped to 50-55% in OT2 because we got the ball first (still favored based on our superior kicker).  I think there was at least a 65-70% chance we get the 2 yards to win.  Maybe higher if we had a specific play just for the situation.

Do you really think a team that doesn't have a 2 minute offense has a play for that situation?

Yes, i do.  That said, i've been pretty skeptical of the posts throwing the coaches under the bus....until i rewatched the game and listened to our captains try to defer when they won the toss before OT.  That was incredibly disappointing and I'm not sure how that even happens with a Snyder coached team.  His attention to detail is well known....it has me a little worried.
Not sure if serious...
yeah that was just a truly shitty post, brown belts everywhere these days

Offline Whisker Biscuit

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #270 on: October 09, 2017, 03:25:37 PM »
I think statistically we had a much better win percentage to go for 2 in OT1.  The more i think about it the more i think it was the right call.  I think we had a 60-65% chance to win in OT1 given we got the ball last.  I think that dropped to 50-55% in OT2 because we got the ball first (still favored based on our superior kicker).  I think there was at least a 65-70% chance we get the 2 yards to win.  Maybe higher if we had a specific play just for the situation.

Do you really think a team that doesn't have a 2 minute offense has a play for that situation?

Yes, i do.  That said, i've been pretty skeptical of the posts throwing the coaches under the bus....until i rewatched the game and listened to our captains try to defer when they won the toss before OT.  That was incredibly disappointing and I'm not sure how that even happens with a Snyder coached team.  His attention to detail is well known....it has me a little worried.
Not sure if serious...
yeah that was just a truly shitty post, brown belts everywhere these days

I've got you crap stains so mind mumped you don't know whether to crap or go blind.  :ROFL:

Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #271 on: October 09, 2017, 03:29:10 PM »
When we won the toss and one of the captains said "Defer!", and the ref--who is also a complete dipshit--said "you can't defer" I was all  :facepalm:
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Offline meow meow

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #272 on: October 09, 2017, 04:43:49 PM »
When we won the toss and one of the captains said "Defer!", and the ref--who is also a complete dipshit--said "you can't defer" I was all  :facepalm:

can you imagine if the official would have then asked Texas and they would have taken defense and we would have totally effed ourselves.

Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #273 on: October 09, 2017, 08:13:14 PM »
When we won the toss and one of the captains said "Defer!", and the ref--who is also a complete dipshit--said "you can't defer" I was all  :facepalm:

can you imagine if the official would have then asked Texas and they would have taken defense and we would have totally effed ourselves.

That's probably what he should have done--let us choose which endzone to defend
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Offline pvegs

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #274 on: October 09, 2017, 08:28:34 PM »
2nd to last play of the game, we called a play that led to our receiver being tackled at the 1. We had 0 timeouts. If we hadn't gotten a penalty for O-PI we would've ended the game without throwing to the endzone

I think that was more of the player not being aware of where he was on the field than the call. We've run rub plays against man in the endzone plenty of times before.

The play that really hurt on that final drive was the outside run to Jones that got blown up and forced us to waste a TO. Of course, that outside zone scheme had gotten us big chunks earlier in the game for both Jones and Barnes so I understood it, but when it got destroyed and we lost yards it took an additional running play our of our hands because we had to waste one of our two timeouts.

Also, this was a game where truly wasting a TO in a late play clock situation came back to hurt us. If we had an additional timeout and a chance to call another run play at the 4 with 10 seconds left I truly think we win the game.

yup