Author Topic: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread  (Read 36045 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tdaver

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 954
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #725 on: November 18, 2017, 11:42:03 PM »
What is wrong with our coaches?  Honest question.  Why were we running plays at the end of the game?  1:59 left.  4 downs, 40 seconds between each down = 120 seconds > 1:59.  What. In. The. World?  Victory formation, take a knee. 

I won't get into the pass play call.  I just can't do it right now.


JFC. I was going absolutely apeshit at my TV at that point. How rough ridin' hard is it to do the calculations ONE TIME to determine that, when the other team has NO TIMEOUTS LEFT and you have the ball 1st and 10 with (what I believe was actually even less than Whisker Biscuit's statement of) 1:59 left, you can kneel it out 3 times and run out the clock? I mean, put a few scenarios into a chart, print out said chart, and have one coach keep it in their pocket during the game? Why on earth would we run it straight into the pile on first and second downs and risk getting it stripped (which they nearly succeeded at)? Especially because on 3rd down, we realized, "Ok, I guess the math works out after all, let's kneel it here and go to the lockerroom with the W."

Fire everyone. They are legitimate idiots sometimes.

Stanbot was getting worked up about this.  Even talked about how ISU gave us a game doing this.

Offline BostonPancake

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 1171
  • I'm all about the T in TSC.
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #726 on: November 18, 2017, 11:51:55 PM »
Calling that pass play did not bother me.  They were stopping the run.  We were having success through the air.  It’s just unfortunate how it ended up. 

This.

I mean they could have done a quick pass or play action or RPO and not run but no they did a straight five step drop for deep routes when the running clock was our best weapon. So like, it's one thing to be OK with a pass in that situation and an entirely different one to be OK with THAT pass play.

The deep passing game was working today.  I don't have an issue with trying it again when they were selling out to stop the run.

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 24164
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #727 on: November 18, 2017, 11:55:25 PM »
I'm pretty sure I still would have questioned that pass call even if it was successful


In my head, when we got the ball I was trying to decide if we should throw on one of those downs and I thought we should. My rationale is that if we go 3 and out and punt OSU is scoring anyway because we were definitely staying in that prevent. In retrospect I wondered if we should have thrown on first down but that would have lessened the effect of killing the clock if we completed a pass on first, second was the time to do that.

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 36479
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #728 on: November 18, 2017, 11:57:04 PM »
I'm pretty sure I still would have questioned that pass call even if it was successful


In my head, when we got the ball I was trying to decide if we should throw on one of those downs and I thought we should. My rationale is that if we go 3 and out and punt OSU is scoring anyway because we were definitely staying in that prevent. In retrospect I wondered if we should have thrown on first down but that would have lessened the effect of killing the clock if we completed a pass on first, second was the time to do that.
As I said, I don't have an issue with passing, I had an issue with THAT pass play. Was anyone open or anything?

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 36479
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #729 on: November 18, 2017, 11:58:03 PM »


Calling that pass play did not bother me.  They were stopping the run.  We were having success through the air.  It’s just unfortunate how it ended up. 

This.

I mean they could have done a quick pass or play action or RPO and not run but no they did a straight five step drop for deep routes when the running clock was our best weapon. So like, it's one thing to be OK with a pass in that situation and an entirely different one to be OK with THAT pass play.

The deep passing game was working today.  I don't have an issue with trying it again when they were selling out to stop the run.

Yeah it's like you didn't read my post. Wouldn't a play action be great when they're selling out against the run?

Offline BostonPancake

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 1171
  • I'm all about the T in TSC.
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #730 on: November 19, 2017, 12:09:18 AM »


Calling that pass play did not bother me.  They were stopping the run.  We were having success through the air.  It’s just unfortunate how it ended up. 

This.

I mean they could have done a quick pass or play action or RPO and not run but no they did a straight five step drop for deep routes when the running clock was our best weapon. So like, it's one thing to be OK with a pass in that situation and an entirely different one to be OK with THAT pass play.

The deep passing game was working today.  I don't have an issue with trying it again when they were selling out to stop the run.

Yeah it's like you didn't read my post. Wouldn't a play action be great when they're selling out against the run?

Sure, I'd be fine with that play as well.  I would have been fine with a lot of pass plays.  I didn't think the one they called was bad either.  I felt like we were playing not to lose at that time, so I was begging for any type of passing route.  In the end, it didn't work out.  OSU made a good play.

Offline pvegs

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 2097
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #731 on: November 19, 2017, 04:43:07 AM »
did we have stupid play calls? will we forever with this staff? yeah. enjoy the win. it's football. drink your buffalo trace. eat some chicken wings, gentlemen. we won. we won. as 20 plus point dogs at o-state, where we hadn't won since 1999. i am old enough to recall that win. was awesome. so was today.

Good call. And I am.

BTW, I made the trip to Stillwater when we beat them in 95. And was at the 03 loss.

And yes, that 99 win was fantastic. The 2nd time we overcame a 21 point deficit that season. Crazy.

:cheers: fellow Cat fans.

Nice. Is there any chance you recall the Cardiac Cats of 1993 in bball? We came back on the road and beat O-State like 75-62 in overtime. Probably in January. And my godfather in Milford taped it and mailed it to us. We had just moved from Kansas to North Carolina and I was going through major culture shock. Watched that like a week after the fact when the tape arrived. Made my damn week and school/rural North Carolina tolerable.

Offline pvegs

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 2097
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #732 on: November 19, 2017, 04:47:07 AM »
You guys should listen to pvegs.  He's wise.

:lol:

you're not the only won lol'ing at pvegs being called "wise" tbt. so am i. but sometimes i do know things.

Offline yoga-like_abana

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 9658
  • Don't @ me boy, cause I ain't said crap
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #733 on: November 19, 2017, 09:02:57 AM »
I'm pretty sure I still would have questioned that pass call even if it was successful


In my head, when we got the ball I was trying to decide if we should throw on one of those downs and I thought we should. My rationale is that if we go 3 and out and punt OSU is scoring anyway because we were definitely staying in that prevent. In retrospect I wondered if we should have thrown on first down but that would have lessened the effect of killing the clock if we completed a pass on first, second was the time to do that.
As I said, I don't have an issue with passing, I had an issue with THAT pass play. Was anyone open or anything?
Did the cameras even show downfield? The pocket collapsed so damn quick I don't even remember them showing any of our wideouts


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Online ksu_FAN1

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 28115
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #734 on: November 19, 2017, 09:18:55 AM »
We tried to run the same rub/pick play that got Pringle wide open earlier in the game. However, Pringle's man was playing off him, so Zuber couldn't run his guy into the defender. You can tell that looking to Pringle is his primary look and its not there; at that point Thompson has to just throw the ball away, especially since OSU brought 6.

Yes, play action is a good call when you are a run down, but we had been burning their man defense all day, regardless of play action. We also knew we were going to get man free or maybe man with 1 free (which is what OSU played) in that down and distance. I'm sure the rationale was that OSU simply couldn't cover Pringle and we got man coverage against him so we took the shot. Plus we were already around mid field. I don't have a problem with the call.

https://youtu.be/3RvbrLugurk?t=8326

Online ksu_FAN1

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 28115
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #735 on: November 19, 2017, 09:22:26 AM »
Here is the earlier play that Pringle scored on. Different formation and we used motion to adjust the safety, but we still got the same coverage and used the same wheel route concept. OSU covered it better the 2nd time.

https://youtu.be/3RvbrLugurk?t=5839

Online ksu_FAN1

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 28115
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #736 on: November 19, 2017, 09:27:35 AM »
This was the most frustrating play for me down the stretch. It was an absolutely great play call vs the defense, but I have no idea why Zuber comes off of his block and then he and Dimel end up blocking the same guy down field. There is no one else on that side of the field for OSU and Thompson likely ends up with at least a 20+ yard run. This should have been a huge play.

https://youtu.be/3RvbrLugurk?t=7711

Online Whisker Biscuit

  • Fan
  • *
  • Posts: 165
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #737 on: November 19, 2017, 09:36:06 AM »
This was the most frustrating play for me down the stretch. It was an absolutely great play call vs the defense, but I have no idea why Zuber comes off of his block and then he and Dimel end up blocking the same guy down field. There is no one else on that side of the field for OSU and Thompson likely ends up with at least a 20+ yard run. This should have been a huge play.

https://youtu.be/3RvbrLugurk?t=7711

I rewatched this play several times when it happened.  Zuber clearly thinks Dimel is going to block the guy so he moves upfield to the next guy.   Such a small miscommunication that was a huge play.

On the pass play late, without a turnover or recovered onside kick, it was virtually impossible for OSU to win the game.  Run, punt, play defense, repeat.  There was no need to pass even if it was successful.

Online ksu_FAN1

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 28115
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #738 on: November 19, 2017, 09:39:57 AM »
This was the most frustrating play for me down the stretch. It was an absolutely great play call vs the defense, but I have no idea why Zuber comes off of his block and then he and Dimel end up blocking the same guy down field. There is no one else on that side of the field for OSU and Thompson likely ends up with at least a 20+ yard run. This should have been a huge play.

https://youtu.be/3RvbrLugurk?t=7711

I rewatched this play several times when it happened.  Zuber clearly thinks Dimel is going to block the guy so he moves upfield to the next guy.   Such a small miscommunication that was a huge play.

On the pass play late, without a turnover or recovered onside kick, it was virtually impossible for OSU to win the game.  Run, punt, play defense, repeat.  There was no need to pass even if it was successful.

Its got to be Zuber's in my opinion. Dimel does a great job setting it up by initially going inside the right tackle, which pulls OSU's LBs inside to eliminate pursuit. Zuber already has the angle on OSU's corner to take him inside and is right there, leaving Dimel to loop around and block the safety.

I get why people are upset with the pass call, but here we have our staff finally calling plays to put OSU away and it doesn't work. The worst possible scenario happened; even if Thompson just falls down and takes the sack without the fumble we're fine. I like that we were still attacking.

Offline Cire

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 13465
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #739 on: November 19, 2017, 10:08:36 AM »
Zero problem with the pass play.  Agree it should have been a quick out or screen. Rather than long developing, you knew they were bringing pressure


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 24164
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #740 on: November 19, 2017, 11:30:26 AM »
Good breakdown fan but one issue, Thompson absolutely shouldn't have thrown the ball away, just not fumble it, fall down, take a knee, anything to keep the clock running.

Online ksu_FAN1

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 28115
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #741 on: November 19, 2017, 11:41:16 AM »
Good breakdown fan but one issue, Thompson absolutely shouldn't have thrown the ball away, just not fumble it, fall down, take a knee, anything to keep the clock running.

Yes. It was kind of a freak hit from (I believe) the OSU defender's knee into his shoulder/side that caused the fumble. I was just saying throwing the ball away is a better option than a fumble (which I admit is simplistic) and OSU did a good job of delay blitzing their two backers which may have confused Thompson a bit. On the earlier throw, OSU did not send their backers so Thompson had a very clean pocket and plenty of time.

I do like that it is a fairly simple look for the QB given OSU's coverage. Its not quite a quick bubble screen, but still a fairly quick release if the throw is there. Granted, there probably needs to be better coaching of what to do if that initial throw isn't there, especially in that situation, but a lot of players probably only learn those things with the actual experience in a game.

Offline EMAWzifried

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 384
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #742 on: November 19, 2017, 11:54:32 AM »
I shouted loudest at the TV during the Cats' last scoring drive. Once we got in the IH, we quit passing against OSU's porous pass defense. I understand wanting to run the clock, but 7 points there more or less seals it. And we had the wind behind us, which benefitted both QBs all day.

Offline kslim

  • PCKK7DC Survivor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *******
  • Posts: 10225
  • THANKS BREONTAE!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #743 on: November 19, 2017, 01:35:01 PM »
hayes called a pretty good game until the second half, they took every bit of what we gave them on the out routes. our dbs moving up a yard or two would have led to at least 1 pick if not more yet here we are same crap different week
@kslimlb3

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 36479
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #744 on: November 19, 2017, 01:39:36 PM »
hayes called a pretty good game until the second half, they took every bit of what we gave them on the out routes. our dbs moving up a yard or two would have led to at least 1 pick if not more yet here we are same crap different week

the only criticism of Hayes should be they blitz too much in the 4th. They did amazing before that.

Offline BIG APPLE CAT

  • smelly poor
  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 1064
  • slide rule enthusiast
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #745 on: November 19, 2017, 03:30:43 PM »
I really don't understand anyone criticizing the call for a pass play. Even had we not fumbled and bled as much clock as possible... OSU still gets the ball back with over 2 minutes to go which they demonstrated numerous times was more than enough time to score. Either way if we don't get the first down we leave then plenty of time to score so why not run a play that at least has a chance to pick up the first down and all but ice it.

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 24164
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #746 on: November 19, 2017, 04:10:52 PM »
hayes called a pretty good game until the second half, they took every bit of what we gave them on the out routes. our dbs moving up a yard or two would have led to at least 1 pick if not more yet here we are same crap different week

The only job we had on defense in the second half was to not get beat deep. Best way to do that, drop the DBs and send the linebackers to force the ball out of Rudolph's hand quickly, then tackle.

Offline kslim

  • PCKK7DC Survivor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *******
  • Posts: 10225
  • THANKS BREONTAE!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #747 on: November 19, 2017, 04:33:40 PM »
hayes called a pretty good game until the second half, they took every bit of what we gave them on the out routes. our dbs moving up a yard or two would have led to at least 1 pick if not more yet here we are same crap different week

The only job we had on defense in the second half was to not get beat deep. Best way to do that, drop the DBs and send the linebackers to force the ball out of Rudolph's hand quickly, then tackle.
yeah I’m not saying to jam them or even to play man up but stop giving such a cushion. duke has proved he is fast enough to recover, never got to see Parker’s speed
@kslimlb3

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 24164
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #748 on: November 23, 2017, 08:14:48 PM »
One last point on the end of half, non-timeout call.  There is no way KU was going for it on 4th and 14...and for all those saying they would have had we called timeout i ask this:  why didn't KU call timeout immediately?  If they would have gone for it had we called timeout, whey wouldn't they have called timeout themselves and gone for it if that's what was their plan?

Bottom line, it was a horrible decision to not call timeout and allow KU a free shot.

Nobody with a brain actually think ku was going to go for it on 4th and 14 from midfield. Not even Beatty is that stupid.

Remember this discussion? This nearly exact scenario just happened in The Egg Bowl.

Mississippi State had a 4th and 7 from the Ole Miss 45 or so. There was about 35 seconds left in the half and the clock was running. Mississippi State let the clock run and were going to let the clock run out to throw a hail mary. Ole Miss inexplicably didn't let the clock run out or call a time out right away, they called one with 15 seconds left. Instead of throwing the hail mary Mississippi State got the first down then kicked a field goal to end the half.

Offline catastrophe

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 4711
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #749 on: November 23, 2017, 09:08:23 PM »
Similar situation in the Cowboys game. Cowboys were letting clock run at the end of the half and Chargers called s timeout to discourage the Cowboys from trying a Hail Mary to end the half. They punted.