Author Topic: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread  (Read 35748 times)

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #625 on: November 12, 2017, 11:05:24 AM »
yeah and if TCU and OSU can have runs like they've had with Gundy and Patterson, there's no reason to think ISU couldn't have something similar with a guy like Campbell.

Perhaps, but can they pay him? I know there were some other parts to it, but they couldn't even keep their home grown fantastic basketball coach. Patterson is top 10 ($5+ mil) and Gundy top 20 (4+ mil) in salary, ISU isn't paying that type of money.

they might? Haven't they had pretty significant upgrades to their stadium?

Hoiberg left for $5 million a year in the NBA - I know their AD seems like a weird cheapskate but that isn't like a crazy jump and no one in CBB was going to pay him that much.


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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #626 on: November 12, 2017, 11:52:27 AM »
that why id love a hire like stoops/kelly/venables guys like that will put together a good staff and when they move on or actually retire hopefully you can promote from within (could be posted in this thread or the terrible ksu coaches thread but the point still stands)

I agree with that.

Of course if that doesn't happen I'm all for getting a successful group of 5 coach (especially MAC). That seems like the best case scenario for getting a good coach, at least that's my perception.

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #627 on: November 12, 2017, 12:41:34 PM »
Whole staff has been out coached every game this year except the first 2.
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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #628 on: November 12, 2017, 01:02:04 PM »
I'm not going to lie, my thoughts on this whole thing are probably similar to WB. I suppose that makes me a loser too. That's why this season has been so disappointing; I wasn't even thinking Big 12 title necessarily, but I thought 9-3 was likely and a nice season for Snyder to go out.

I know its going to be difficult after he's done and that's coming soon. I don't hold any illusions that we're going to find another 25-30 year guy with the same levels of success (especially Snyder 1.0), but I'm hopeful we make the best hire possible and can continue with consistent winning 7-8 games per year and pushing toward competing for a league title every 5 years or so.

My issue with WB's comments, and I'm sure others feel the same, is there isn't an acknowledgement that LHC Bill Snyder is a unicorn and would be no matter where he was. If we were to step back it wouldn't be because we're Kansas State but because we're replacing one of the greatest coaches who's ever lived. It reads like whisker biscuit is saying the bigger issue is that we're K-State not that we're replacing LHC Bill Snyder. If that's what he meant I have a problem with that mentality. Every single program in America is one good hire from glory or a bad one from obscurity.

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #629 on: November 12, 2017, 01:05:28 PM »
Blitzing Duke on the long pass play to white on west virginia's first touchdown. Left adams in single coverage

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #630 on: November 12, 2017, 01:06:42 PM »
I'm not going to lie, my thoughts on this whole thing are probably similar to WB. I suppose that makes me a loser too. That's why this season has been so disappointing; I wasn't even thinking Big 12 title necessarily, but I thought 9-3 was likely and a nice season for Snyder to go out.

I know its going to be difficult after he's done and that's coming soon. I don't hold any illusions that we're going to find another 25-30 year guy with the same levels of success (especially Snyder 1.0), but I'm hopeful we make the best hire possible and can continue with consistent winning 7-8 games per year and pushing toward competing for a league title every 5 years or so.

My issue with WB's comments, and I'm sure others feel the same, is there isn't an acknowledgement that LHC Bill Snyder is a unicorn and would be no matter where he was. If we were to step back it wouldn't be because we're Kansas State but because we're replacing one of the greatest coaches who's ever lived. It reads like whisker biscuit is saying the bigger issue is that we're K-State not that we're replacing LHC Bill Snyder. If that's what he meant I have a problem with that mentality. Every single program in America is one good hire from glory or a bad one from obscurity.

That makes sense and I agree with it 100%. Bill is/was a freak, we shouldn't expect a repeat of that, but he's built a foundation that any decent coach should be able to build off of. Heck, if Prince was able to get out of his own way, he may have very well been successful here judging by his original staff.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #631 on: November 12, 2017, 01:08:47 PM »
If you've ever cried for 3 days because a cfb coach retired, you might be too invested, IMO. I love the cats, but i can assure you I will never shed tears over it.

I probably will but I'm not too invested. LHC Bill Snyder football became a thing for me when I was 18 years old. I'm now 41 with two kids who have had season tickets since they were in utero. My youngest looks for Bill when he comes onto the field, not Willie. That's the thing about Bill, my story is far from unique.

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #632 on: November 12, 2017, 01:09:33 PM »
Blitzing Duke on the long pass play to white on west virginia's first touchdown. Left adams in single coverage

But then people complain that we never blitz and play 10 yards off all the time. If anything, we've blitzed poorly way too much this year as we seem to constantly end up with safeties or linebackers one on one on receivers. The biggest issue is our front 7 has an incredible ability to not make plays at the point of attack as we saw over and over yesterday. I'd say that Hayes has done a much better job putting his defense in position to make plays (especially compared to Dimel and the offense), just way too often our guys don't when they get to the QB.

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #633 on: November 12, 2017, 01:10:53 PM »
If you've ever cried for 3 days because a cfb coach retired, you might be too invested, IMO. I love the cats, but i can assure you I will never shed tears over it.

I probably will but I'm not too invested. LHC Bill Snyder football became a thing for me when I was 18 years old. I'm now 41 with two kids who have had season tickets since they were in utero. My youngest looks for Bill when he comes onto the field, not Willie. That's the thing about Bill, my story is far from unique.

Same. In the fall, my facebook memories thing is me and my sons at games every week during Snyder 2.0. And celebrations of great wins in 11 and 12 and a few others in other seasons.

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #634 on: November 12, 2017, 01:13:01 PM »
Blitzing Duke on the long pass play to white on west virginia's first touchdown. Left adams in single coverage

But then people complain that we never blitz and play 10 yards off all the time. If anything, we've blitzed poorly way too much this year as we seem to constantly end up with safeties or linebackers one on one on receivers. The biggest issue is our front 7 has an incredible ability to not make plays at the point of attack as we saw over and over yesterday. I'd say that Hayes has done a much better job putting his defense in position to make plays (especially compared to Dimel and the offense), just way too often our guys don't when they get to the QB.

100%  Our pass rush was embarrassing yesterday and cost us the game.  Blitzing helped a lot in the second half, but so many other games it barely seems worth blitzing because our guys show it way too early and cannot get to the QB before our secondary gets beat in single coverage.

Also, a big reason WVU did not score in the second half yesterday is because of several (pretty terrible) dropped passes.

Offline WildcatPower

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #635 on: November 12, 2017, 01:14:34 PM »
I'm not going to lie, my thoughts on this whole thing are probably similar to WB. I suppose that makes me a loser too. That's why this season has been so disappointing; I wasn't even thinking Big 12 title necessarily, but I thought 9-3 was likely and a nice season for Snyder to go out.

I know its going to be difficult after he's done and that's coming soon. I don't hold any illusions that we're going to find another 25-30 year guy with the same levels of success (especially Snyder 1.0), but I'm hopeful we make the best hire possible and can continue with consistent winning 7-8 games per year and pushing toward competing for a league title every 5 years or so.

My issue with WB's comments, and I'm sure others feel the same, is there isn't an acknowledgement that LHC LHC Bill Snyder is a unicorn and would be no matter where he was. If we were to step back it wouldn't be because we're Kansas State but because we're replacing one of the greatest coaches who's ever lived. It reads like whisker biscuit is saying the bigger issue is that we're K-State not that we're replacing LHC LHC Bill Snyder. If that's what he meant I have a problem with that mentality. Every single program in America is one good hire from glory or a bad one from obscurity.

That makes sense and I agree with it 100%. Bill is/was a freak, we shouldn't expect a repeat of that, but he's built a foundation that any decent coach should be able to build off of. Heck, if Prince was able to get out of his own way, he may have very well been successful here judging by his original staff.

Man, James Franklin and Raheem Morris was great.  Unfortunately, there is some risk to this that also could produce a Tim Tibesar.

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #636 on: November 12, 2017, 01:16:54 PM »
I'm not going to lie, my thoughts on this whole thing are probably similar to WB. I suppose that makes me a loser too. That's why this season has been so disappointing; I wasn't even thinking Big 12 title necessarily, but I thought 9-3 was likely and a nice season for Snyder to go out.

I know its going to be difficult after he's done and that's coming soon. I don't hold any illusions that we're going to find another 25-30 year guy with the same levels of success (especially Snyder 1.0), but I'm hopeful we make the best hire possible and can continue with consistent winning 7-8 games per year and pushing toward competing for a league title every 5 years or so.

My issue with WB's comments, and I'm sure others feel the same, is there isn't an acknowledgement that LHC LHC Bill Snyder is a unicorn and would be no matter where he was. If we were to step back it wouldn't be because we're Kansas State but because we're replacing one of the greatest coaches who's ever lived. It reads like whisker biscuit is saying the bigger issue is that we're K-State not that we're replacing LHC LHC Bill Snyder. If that's what he meant I have a problem with that mentality. Every single program in America is one good hire from glory or a bad one from obscurity.

That makes sense and I agree with it 100%. Bill is/was a freak, we shouldn't expect a repeat of that, but he's built a foundation that any decent coach should be able to build off of. Heck, if Prince was able to get out of his own way, he may have very well been successful here judging by his original staff.

Man, James Franklin and Raheem Morris was great.  Unfortunately, there is some risk to this that also could produce a Tim Tibesar.

And Scott Frost was a GA on that original staff!

But yeah, when everyone realized Prince had a gigantic ego for no reason they took off.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #637 on: November 12, 2017, 01:17:22 PM »
yeah and if TCU and OSU can have runs like they've had with Gundy and Patterson, there's no reason to think ISU couldn't have something similar with a guy like Campbell.

Perhaps, but can they pay him? I know there were some other parts to it, but they couldn't even keep their home grown fantastic basketball coach. Patterson is top 10 ($5+ mil) and Gundy top 20 (4+ mil) in salary, ISU isn't paying that type of money.

Why do you think ISU won't shell out 4 million a year to keep a football coach?

I have my doubts that they can. Despite the first that their stadium is 10,000 seats bigger they don't nearly produce the football revenue that we do. Yesterday was perhaps the biggest home game in program history and they had tickets on Groupon.

Also keeping him in the face of the big programs who will come after him also means having the ability to also pay the assistants what Tennessee or Nebraska can. In fact this is probably the biggest and most overlooked factor in coaching moves. If school A wants to double the salary of your assistants, how in the world can you look them in the face if you turn that down?

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #638 on: November 12, 2017, 01:18:48 PM »
yeah and if TCU and OSU can have runs like they've had with Gundy and Patterson, there's no reason to think ISU couldn't have something similar with a guy like Campbell.

Perhaps, but can they pay him? I know there were some other parts to it, but they couldn't even keep their home grown fantastic basketball coach. Patterson is top 10 ($5+ mil) and Gundy top 20 (4+ mil) in salary, ISU isn't paying that type of money.

Why do you think ISU won't shell out 4 million a year to keep a football coach?

I have my doubts that they can. Despite the first that their stadium is 10,000 seats bigger they don't nearly produce the football revenue that we do. Yesterday was perhaps the biggest home game in program history and they had tickets on Groupon.

Also keeping him in the face of the big programs who will come after him also means having the ability to also pay the assistants what Tennessee or Nebraska can. In fact this is probably the biggest and most overlooked factor in coaching moves. If school A wants to double the salary of your assistants, how in the world can you look them in the face if you turn that down?

Yeah, its hard to see ISU stepping up. I mean, wasn't Hoi complaining about not allowing his team to stay in a hotel an extra night just a couple of years ago?

Offline WildcatPower

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #639 on: November 12, 2017, 01:20:52 PM »
Blitzing Duke on the long pass play to white on west virginia's first touchdown. Left adams in single coverage

But then people complain that we never blitz and play 10 yards off all the time. If anything, we've blitzed poorly way too much this year as we seem to constantly end up with safeties or linebackers one on one on receivers. The biggest issue is our front 7 has an incredible ability to not make plays at the point of attack as we saw over and over yesterday. I'd say that Hayes has done a much better job putting his defense in position to make plays (especially compared to Dimel and the offense), just way too often our guys don't when they get to the QB.

I agree with this, the main issue is that there is a huge lack of a pass rush by the defensive linemen.  And when they do finally get into the backfield, they somehow whiff so badly that the QB just easily spins off of them and heave a 50+ bomb.

Basically put, the D-Line isn't athletic as it once used to be.  And it's hard to expect Walker and Geary to get anything done when the offense know they can just double both of them while singling up everyone else.

Our run defense, for the most part, is OK, and that's what this D-line is built on.  But when they sub out Dishon and Geary, the subs aren't very good on getting any pass rush at all.

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #640 on: November 12, 2017, 01:21:32 PM »
I'm not going to lie, my thoughts on this whole thing are probably similar to WB. I suppose that makes me a loser too. That's why this season has been so disappointing; I wasn't even thinking Big 12 title necessarily, but I thought 9-3 was likely and a nice season for Snyder to go out.

I know its going to be difficult after he's done and that's coming soon. I don't hold any illusions that we're going to find another 25-30 year guy with the same levels of success (especially Snyder 1.0), but I'm hopeful we make the best hire possible and can continue with consistent winning 7-8 games per year and pushing toward competing for a league title every 5 years or so.

My issue with WB's comments, and I'm sure others feel the same, is there isn't an acknowledgement that LHC LHC Bill Snyder is a unicorn and would be no matter where he was. If we were to step back it wouldn't be because we're Kansas State but because we're replacing one of the greatest coaches who's ever lived. It reads like whisker biscuit is saying the bigger issue is that we're K-State not that we're replacing LHC LHC Bill Snyder. If that's what he meant I have a problem with that mentality. Every single program in America is one good hire from glory or a bad one from obscurity.

That makes sense and I agree with it 100%. Bill is/was a freak, we shouldn't expect a repeat of that, but he's built a foundation that any decent coach should be able to build off of. Heck, if Prince was able to get out of his own way, he may have very well been successful here judging by his original staff.

Man, James Franklin and Raheem Morris was great.  Unfortunately, there is some risk to this that also could produce a Tim Tibesar.

And Scott Frost was a GA on that original staff!

But yeah, when everyone realized Prince had a gigantic ego for no reason they took off.

I was able to have some drinks with James Franklin at the national coaching convention the year after Ron was canned and he was adamant Ron got a raw deal at KSU.  It was just he and I talking so there was no ulterior motive or any reason for him to "lie".  Maybe that's just coaches towing the line but regardless, he seemed to really like Ron and thought he should have still been KSU's coach.

Offline WildcatPower

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #641 on: November 12, 2017, 01:23:10 PM »
I'm not going to lie, my thoughts on this whole thing are probably similar to WB. I suppose that makes me a loser too. That's why this season has been so disappointing; I wasn't even thinking Big 12 title necessarily, but I thought 9-3 was likely and a nice season for Snyder to go out.

I know its going to be difficult after he's done and that's coming soon. I don't hold any illusions that we're going to find another 25-30 year guy with the same levels of success (especially Snyder 1.0), but I'm hopeful we make the best hire possible and can continue with consistent winning 7-8 games per year and pushing toward competing for a league title every 5 years or so.

My issue with WB's comments, and I'm sure others feel the same, is there isn't an acknowledgement that LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder is a unicorn and would be no matter where he was. If we were to step back it wouldn't be because we're Kansas State but because we're replacing one of the greatest coaches who's ever lived. It reads like whisker biscuit is saying the bigger issue is that we're K-State not that we're replacing LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder. If that's what he meant I have a problem with that mentality. Every single program in America is one good hire from glory or a bad one from obscurity.

That makes sense and I agree with it 100%. Bill is/was a freak, we shouldn't expect a repeat of that, but he's built a foundation that any decent coach should be able to build off of. Heck, if Prince was able to get out of his own way, he may have very well been successful here judging by his original staff.

Man, James Franklin and Raheem Morris was great.  Unfortunately, there is some risk to this that also could produce a Tim Tibesar.

And Scott Frost was a GA on that original staff!

But yeah, when everyone realized Prince had a gigantic ego for no reason they took off.

Yeah, initially, I was pissed to see Morris leave, but back then I didn't know why until after everything just went south at the end of RP's tenure, where I understood why.

Man, if only RP wasn't a dickhead and checked his ego, he potentially could have been a great coach.  But it is what it is.

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #642 on: November 12, 2017, 01:23:32 PM »
I don't think the pass rush was terrible we just can't rough ridin' tackle
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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #643 on: November 12, 2017, 01:30:53 PM »
yeah and if TCU and OSU can have runs like they've had with Gundy and Patterson, there's no reason to think ISU couldn't have something similar with a guy like Campbell.

Perhaps, but can they pay him? I know there were some other parts to it, but they couldn't even keep their home grown fantastic basketball coach. Patterson is top 10 ($5+ mil) and Gundy top 20 (4+ mil) in salary, ISU isn't paying that type of money.

Why do you think ISU won't shell out 4 million a year to keep a football coach?

I have my doubts that they can. Despite the first that their stadium is 10,000 seats bigger they don't nearly produce the football revenue that we do. Yesterday was perhaps the biggest home game in program history and they had tickets on Groupon.

Also keeping him in the face of the big programs who will come after him also means having the ability to also pay the assistants what Tennessee or Nebraska can. In fact this is probably the biggest and most overlooked factor in coaching moves. If school A wants to double the salary of your assistants, how in the world can you look them in the face if you turn that down?

Yeah, its hard to see ISU stepping up. I mean, wasn't Hoi complaining about not allowing his team to stay in a hotel an extra night just a couple of years ago?

He forced them to sleep in the ballroom.

Offline WildcatPower

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #644 on: November 12, 2017, 01:35:03 PM »
I don't think the pass rush was terrible we just can't rough ridin' tackle

But it isn't exactly great either, it's just inconsistent.

The big issue is that they can't tackle in the backfield, like you said.  Why is that?  Is it because of either coaching or player athleticism?

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #645 on: November 12, 2017, 01:37:52 PM »
Blitzing Duke on the long pass play to white on west virginia's first touchdown. Left adams in single coverage

But then people complain that we never blitz and play 10 yards off all the time. If anything, we've blitzed poorly way too much this year as we seem to constantly end up with safeties or linebackers one on one on receivers. The biggest issue is our front 7 has an incredible ability to not make plays at the point of attack as we saw over and over yesterday. I'd say that Hayes has done a much better job putting his defense in position to make plays (especially compared to Dimel and the offense), just way too often our guys don't when they get to the QB.

I am all for blitzing to keep the offense off guard but lets not do it on the opponent's quickest player and #1 downfield threat

jennings - possession receiver
white - speed/downfield threat
sills - redzone threat

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #646 on: November 12, 2017, 02:16:57 PM »
It was incredibly frustrating how many times we whiffed trying to get to Grier. I know he's a great qb, but my goodness. Just laughable.

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #647 on: November 12, 2017, 02:44:01 PM »
Sure Hayes might be putting guys in position to succeed more consistently than Dimel/the offense but there is issues with technique and developing guys that apparently aren’t getting fixed. Goolsby has been burned badly multiple times this year by being flat footed. There’s others but that’s the first and most obvious one for me personally

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #648 on: November 12, 2017, 02:56:15 PM »
I don't think the pass rush was terrible we just can't rough ridin' tackle

But it isn't exactly great either, it's just inconsistent.

The big issue is that they can't tackle in the backfield, like you said.  Why is that?  Is it because of either coaching or player athleticism?
I'm gonna go with lack of athleticism. Jordan Willis and Meshak Williams were able to get close enough to get a hand on the QB. And when they got a hand on the QB, he went down. This year we get close but our guys can't hold on for dear life or are too slow to adjust to the QB's lateral movement.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #649 on: November 12, 2017, 03:13:51 PM »
I don't think the pass rush was terrible we just can't rough ridin' tackle

But it isn't exactly great either, it's just inconsistent.

The big issue is that they can't tackle in the backfield, like you said.  Why is that?  Is it because of either coaching or player athleticism?
I'm gonna go with lack of athleticism. Jordan Willis and Meshak Williams were able to get close enough to get a hand on the QB. And when they got a hand on the QB, he went down. This year we get close but our guys can't hold on for dear life or are too slow to adjust to the QB's lateral movement.

That's strength, not athleticism. Meshak and Jordan were very skrong.