Author Topic: It's Venables  (Read 52100 times)

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #200 on: November 26, 2017, 09:40:56 PM »
If Venables doesn't get a job this off season, he's never getting one.

I've heard there are more than two or three college football coaches out there, not sure about that though.

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #201 on: November 26, 2017, 09:51:57 PM »
Did you just reply to yourself?

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #202 on: November 26, 2017, 10:00:37 PM »
LOL yeah, munsoned the quote function, I obviously meant to quote you

Offline KSURFC8

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #203 on: November 26, 2017, 10:30:07 PM »
I like Venebles, and I am rooting for him as a human to just keep making $1M+ a year as a DC without the hell of being on stage 24-7 as a HC.

Winning a 2nd NC and seeing your asking price go to somewhere between $4+M and $7+M can make a lot of hell tolerable.

I'm afraid that at some point soon, if we've not already reached it, we've priced ourselves right out of the market for him.

But on the upside, Schiano's probably available at a good price. Might even be willing to take a defensive position coaches job first. Hmmmm?
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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #204 on: November 26, 2017, 10:46:48 PM »
I like Venebles, and I am rooting for him as a human to just keep making $1M+ a year as a DC without the hell of being on stage 24-7 as a HC.

Winning a 2nd NC and seeing your asking price go to somewhere between $4+M and $7+M can make a lot of hell tolerable.

I'm afraid that at some point soon, if we've not already reached it, we've priced ourselves right out of the market for him.

But on the upside, Schiano's probably available at a good price. Might even be willing to take a defensive position coaches job first. Hmmmm?

Brent, no one is going to pay you that much, don't be silly. Also how do you not know Schiano is Ohio State's DC, don't you guys have meetings or something?

Offline KSURFC8

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #205 on: November 26, 2017, 10:56:46 PM »
I like Venebles, and I am rooting for him as a human to just keep making $1M+ a year as a DC without the hell of being on stage 24-7 as a HC.

Winning a 2nd NC and seeing your asking price go to somewhere between $4+M and $7+M can make a lot of hell tolerable.

I'm afraid that at some point soon, if we've not already reached it, we've priced ourselves right out of the market for him.

But on the upside, Schiano's probably available at a good price. Might even be willing to take a defensive position coaches job first. Hmmmm?

Brent, no one is going to pay you that much, don't be silly. Also how do you not know Schiano is Ohio State's DC, don't you guys have meetings or something?

Rumor has it that he was the one with the camera. He'll be available to anyone soon enough.
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." – Winston Churchill/George Orwell

Offline catastrophe

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #206 on: November 26, 2017, 11:08:10 PM »
I like Venebles, and I am rooting for him as a human to just keep making $1M+ a year as a DC without the hell of being on stage 24-7 as a HC.

I mean, that kind of makes sense, but a desperate program will pay him $3-5 million a year and will include a sweet buyout. Keep doing the DC thing for 20 years or go through hell for 5 years or so and make the same amount of money.

Offline BackPayne

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #207 on: November 27, 2017, 02:08:39 AM »
Is this what Bill is waiting for to retire? If Brent is off the table and we've made to look like fools with Leavitt, Sean will get the HC job?

Offline slackcat

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #208 on: November 27, 2017, 04:54:26 AM »
Is this what Bill is waiting for to retire? If Brent is off the table and we've made to look like fools with Leavitt, Sean will get the HC job?

Evidently so. 

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #209 on: November 27, 2017, 09:43:07 AM »
If he gets a kick ass job he'll never come back home. We're getting Sean.

Is this what Bill is waiting for to retire? If Brent is off the table and we've made to look like fools with Leavitt, Sean will get the HC job?

Let me try this again

I've heard there are more than two or three college football coaches out there, not sure about that though.

Offline Shooter Jones

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #210 on: November 27, 2017, 09:57:25 AM »
Let me try this again

I've heard there are more than two or three college football coaches out there, not sure about that though.

The funny thing is, even a few weeks ago when the program seemed like a total crap storm, people still talked about just those names because of K-State ties.

Why the hell does no one want to branch out of the Snyder tree for a complete culture change? (I actually believe Venzy would bring that, I feel Sean and Leavitt would keep most of the staff and it would be status quo until they fail)

Is it as simple as our dumbass fan base responding with, "Ron Prince"?

Offline DQ12

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #211 on: November 27, 2017, 10:17:06 AM »
Let me try this again

I've heard there are more than two or three college football coaches out there, not sure about that though.

The funny thing is, even a few weeks ago when the program seemed like a total crap storm, people still talked about just those names because of K-State ties.

Why the hell does no one want to branch out of the Snyder tree for a complete culture change? (I actually believe Venzy would bring that, I feel Sean and Leavitt would keep most of the staff and it would be status quo until they fail)

Is it as simple as our dumbass fan base responding with, "Ron Prince"?
I'm not what the basis for your opinion regarding Leavitt's (or sean's) staff. 

But I think a huge portion of our fanbase believes what Snyder did here was "special" and acknowledge that K-State's HC position presents unique challenges (mostly due to real or perceived recruiting difficulties).  To that end, they would prefer someone with Snyder ties who has at least a modicum of first hand experience of "what it takes to win at K-State." 

I don't really think that's a "dumbass" point of view.  Especially when we have a number of very qualified guys who fit that description.


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Offline catastrophe

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It's Venables
« Reply #212 on: November 27, 2017, 10:34:00 AM »
Prince also scared a few people for sure, but it’s probably mostly selection bias. Fans like to point at success stories like Patterson, Venables, and Stoops from Snyder and Underwood for Martin as if it is a miss whenever they get away and an opportunity for success in the future if we are able to re-catch them before another major program does.

Offline Shooter Jones

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #213 on: November 27, 2017, 10:47:52 AM »
Let me try this again

I've heard there are more than two or three college football coaches out there, not sure about that though.

The funny thing is, even a few weeks ago when the program seemed like a total crap storm, people still talked about just those names because of K-State ties.

Why the hell does no one want to branch out of the Snyder tree for a complete culture change? (I actually believe Venzy would bring that, I feel Sean and Leavitt would keep most of the staff and it would be status quo until they fail)

Is it as simple as our dumbass fan base responding with, "Ron Prince"?
I'm not what the basis for your opinion regarding Leavitt's (or sean's) staff. 

But I think a huge portion of our fanbase believes what Snyder did here was "special" and acknowledge that K-State's HC position presents unique challenges (mostly due to real or perceived recruiting difficulties).  To that end, they would prefer someone with Snyder ties who has at least a modicum of first hand experience of "what it takes to win at K-State." 

I don't really think that's a "dumbass" point of view.  Especially when we have a number of very qualified guys who fit that description.

I mean, you're definitely right. Leavitt and Brent are qualified, and I think you make Venzy say no first before truly starting an open national search. But I feel like most of our fans automatically default to Leavitt or Sean because of the "knows what it takes to win at K-State" quality, before even being open to giving someone else a chance.

I guess I just have a distorted view of the K-State job and actually think Bill himself has removed most of the deficiencies people talk about with the K-State job. And that opens it up to many many other great candidates outside of his own tree that our fans (and hell, maybe even admin) would overlook/not even give a look. Which I think is a huge mistake (dumbass point of view is probably the wrong term)

Probably doesn't even matter though, I'm an idiot and probably won't even be able to work a computer by the time Snyder actually decides to retire and there's an opening.

Offline KSURFC8

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #214 on: November 27, 2017, 10:52:36 AM »
Let me try this again

I've heard there are more than two or three college football coaches out there, not sure about that though.

The funny thing is, even a few weeks ago when the program seemed like a total crap storm, people still talked about just those names because of K-State ties.

Why the hell does no one want to branch out of the Snyder tree for a complete culture change? (I actually believe Venzy would bring that, I feel Sean and Leavitt would keep most of the staff and it would be status quo until they fail)

Is it as simple as our dumbass fan base responding with, "Ron Prince"?
I'm not what the basis for your opinion regarding Leavitt's (or sean's) staff. 

But I think a huge portion of our fanbase believes what Snyder did here was "special" and acknowledge that K-State's HC position presents unique challenges (mostly due to real or perceived recruiting difficulties).  To that end, they would prefer someone with Snyder ties who has at least a modicum of first hand experience of "what it takes to win at K-State." 

I don't really think that's a "dumbass" point of view.  Especially when we have a number of very qualified guys who fit that description.


You make some very broad assumptions that I just don't think are true. Unless you can prove otherwise.
1. If it's only perceived and not reality (i.e. recruiting), then it's not so much a problem with the program as it is a problem with and for the individual. There are other reasons besides Manhattan that keeps us from getting a larger pool of "better" recruits to attend KSU.
2. You are absolutely correct that a "huge" portion of our fan base (you should have mentioned a huge portion of the college football community in general) believes that what HCBS has accomplished at KSU is special but you cannot, without some statistical data to back your argument up, state that that same "huge" percentage would prefer someone with Snyder ties who has at least a modicum of first hand experience of "what it takes to win at K-State."

Lastly, outside of Leavitt and Venables, who are the remainder of the "number" that qualify under your criteria and that we'd actually hire? Patterson, Stoops, Mangino, Bennett? Nope, nope, nope and nope. What else you got?
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." – Winston Churchill/George Orwell

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #215 on: November 27, 2017, 11:50:54 AM »
Let me try this again

I've heard there are more than two or three college football coaches out there, not sure about that though.

The funny thing is, even a few weeks ago when the program seemed like a total crap storm, people still talked about just those names because of K-State ties.

Why the hell does no one want to branch out of the Snyder tree for a complete culture change? (I actually believe Venzy would bring that, I feel Sean and Leavitt would keep most of the staff and it would be status quo until they fail)

Is it as simple as our dumbass fan base responding with, "Ron Prince"?
I'm not what the basis for your opinion regarding Leavitt's (or sean's) staff. 

But I think a huge portion of our fanbase believes what Snyder did here was "special" and acknowledge that K-State's HC position presents unique challenges (mostly due to real or perceived recruiting difficulties).  To that end, they would prefer someone with Snyder ties who has at least a modicum of first hand experience of "what it takes to win at K-State." 

I don't really think that's a "dumbass" point of view.  Especially when we have a number of very qualified guys who fit that description.

I mean, you're definitely right. Leavitt and Brent are qualified, and I think you make Venzy say no first before truly starting an open national search. But I feel like most of our fans automatically default to Leavitt or Sean because of the "knows what it takes to win at K-State" quality, before even being open to giving someone else a chance.

I guess I just have a distorted view of the K-State job and actually think Bill himself has removed most of the deficiencies people talk about with the K-State job. And that opens it up to many many other great candidates outside of his own tree that our fans (and hell, maybe even admin) would overlook/not even give a look. Which I think is a huge mistake (dumbass point of view is probably the wrong term)

Probably doesn't even matter though, I'm an idiot and probably won't even be able to work a computer by the time Snyder actually decides to retire and there's an opening.

It's not dumb, it's just lazy and 98% of college football fans don't really follow programs outside of their own so they don't know what's out there. And I completely agree with you that K-State is a completely different job than it was even in 2009. When Snyder came back we were still at a decided resource disadvantage, we don't have that anymore. The gap between college football haves and have nots is smaller than it ever has been and continuing to shrink. Now there is a small group of college football elite then everyone else.

Offline pissclams

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #216 on: November 27, 2017, 12:28:35 PM »
nothing snyder can do or has done is going to change our flyover town into a beautiful place like tuscaloosa


Cheesy Mustache QB might make an appearance.

New warning: Don't get in a fight with someone who doesn't even need to bother to buy ink.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #217 on: November 27, 2017, 12:39:58 PM »
nothing snyder can do or has done is going to change our flyover town into a beautiful place like tuscaloosa
:D

Offline DQ12

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #218 on: November 27, 2017, 04:05:56 PM »
You make some very broad assumptions that I just don't think are true. Unless you can prove otherwise.
1. If it's only perceived and not reality (i.e. recruiting), then it's not so much a problem with the program as it is a problem with and for the individual. There are other reasons besides Manhattan that keeps us from getting a larger pool of "better" recruits to attend KSU.
2. You are absolutely correct that a "huge" portion of our fan base (you should have mentioned a huge portion of the college football community in general) believes that what HCBS has accomplished at KSU is special but you cannot, without some statistical data to back your argument up, state that that same "huge" percentage would prefer someone with Snyder ties who has at least a modicum of first hand experience of "what it takes to win at K-State."

Lastly, outside of Leavitt and Venables, who are the remainder of the "number" that qualify under your criteria and that we'd actually hire? Patterson, Stoops, Mangino, Bennett? Nope, nope, nope and nope. What else you got?
1.  Maybe i shouldn't have said "perceived," because I do think K-State is at an inherent disadvantage.  I think the unique challenges at K-State have less to do with manhattan itself and more to do with its location.  We don't have any natural recruiting territory.  We don't border Texas like Oklahoma does.  We don't have a monopoly on the KS jucos anymore.  I think there are several reasons why K-State tends to finish near the bottom of the conference in recruiting, and I think Manhattan's location is among them (staff laziness is another fwiw).  To that end, I think the deck is inherently stacked against K-State talent-wise relative to most of the rest of the conference.  Do I think a dynamic recruiter could come in here and make some hay recruiting-wise despite MHK's location?  Of course.  That said, I don't think it's irrational to assume that K-State probably can't consistently rake in top 25 recruiting classes no matter who our head coach is.  Therefore, the logic goes, we need to figure out some other way to compete at a top 25 level to make up for the recruiting deficiencies.  Snyder figured out how to do that.  I can understand how someone would want a prospective coach to have first hand knowledge of how Snyder did it.

2.  I have no idea what your second point means.

To be clear, I'm not a Snyder Tree or Bust kind of guy.  All else being equal, I'd prefer the coach to have ties here, but it's not a make or break for me.  I think that guys like Leavitt, Venables, and (yes) Bielema make more sense than whoever the MAC flavor of the year coach is.


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Offline ChiComCat

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #219 on: November 27, 2017, 04:27:32 PM »
Sean and Leavitt are pretty openly campaigning for the job so they get mentioned frequently. BV is available every off season and has ties. I think there are plenty of other candidates but it’s tough to throw names out until there is an opening. Fleck was one I liked but he had a six week lifespan until he was likely off the market.

Offline ksuchris2000

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #220 on: November 27, 2017, 04:31:55 PM »
Has it been mentioned that Venables' son has been offered by Clemson (and Utah)?  If son commits to Clemson, does BV stay at Clemson? Signing day IS a long ways away.

Offline Shooter Jones

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #221 on: November 27, 2017, 04:57:25 PM »
Has it been mentioned that Venables' son has been offered by Clemson (and Utah)?  If son commits to Clemson, does BV stay at Clemson? Signing day IS a long ways away.

His son is committed to Clemson already. If he signs during the early signing period in a few weeks, I think that would kind of confirm Brent's future plans to stay there. If he waits until the regular signing period in Feb, I'd say there might be a chance Venables could go somewhere else over the next two months... but who the hell knows with that guy.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #222 on: November 27, 2017, 05:04:55 PM »
Has it been mentioned that Venables' son has been offered by Clemson (and Utah)?  If son commits to Clemson, does BV stay at Clemson? Signing day IS a long ways away.

His son is committed to Clemson already. If he signs during the early signing period in a few weeks, I think that would kind of confirm Brent's future plans to stay there. If he waits until the regular signing period in Feb, I'd say there might be a chance Venables could go somewhere else over the next two months... but who the hell knows with that guy.

If his dad left and he wanted to follow him, Clemson would absolutely grant him a release.

Offline meow meow

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #223 on: November 27, 2017, 05:11:50 PM »
think Venzy has a boy already at Clemson playing and another that's in high school and just got offered there

Offline Whisker Biscuit

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Re: It's Venables
« Reply #224 on: November 27, 2017, 05:34:06 PM »
Let me try this again

I've heard there are more than two or three college football coaches out there, not sure about that though.

The funny thing is, even a few weeks ago when the program seemed like a total crap storm, people still talked about just those names because of K-State ties.

Why the hell does no one want to branch out of the Snyder tree for a complete culture change? (I actually believe Venzy would bring that, I feel Sean and Leavitt would keep most of the staff and it would be status quo until they fail)

Is it as simple as our dumbass fan base responding with, "Ron Prince"?
I'm not what the basis for your opinion regarding Leavitt's (or sean's) staff. 

But I think a huge portion of our fanbase believes what Snyder did here was "special" and acknowledge that K-State's HC position presents unique challenges (mostly due to real or perceived recruiting difficulties).  To that end, they would prefer someone with Snyder ties who has at least a modicum of first hand experience of "what it takes to win at K-State." 

I don't really think that's a "dumbass" point of view.  Especially when we have a number of very qualified guys who fit that description.

I mean, you're definitely right. Leavitt and Brent are qualified, and I think you make Venzy say no first before truly starting an open national search. But I feel like most of our fans automatically default to Leavitt or Sean because of the "knows what it takes to win at K-State" quality, before even being open to giving someone else a chance.

I guess I just have a distorted view of the K-State job and actually think Bill himself has removed most of the deficiencies people talk about with the K-State job. And that opens it up to many many other great candidates outside of his own tree that our fans (and hell, maybe even admin) would overlook/not even give a look. Which I think is a huge mistake (dumbass point of view is probably the wrong term)

Probably doesn't even matter though, I'm an idiot and probably won't even be able to work a computer by the time Snyder actually decides to retire and there's an opening.

It's not dumb, it's just lazy and 98% of college football fans don't really follow programs outside of their own so they don't know what's out there. And I completely agree with you that K-State is a completely different job than it was even in 2009. When Snyder came back we were still at a decided resource disadvantage, we don't have that anymore. The gap between college football haves and have nots is smaller than it ever has been and continuing to shrink. Now there is a small group of college football elite then everyone else.

Bama pays Saban over $11m per year.  Lowest power 5 conference coach $1.6m.  That's a pretty big gap.  Median is probably around $3.5m, so a crap ton of P5 schools probably can't get approval to pay more than around $3m.  This is a pretty big moat for the have's.