Author Topic: Minority rule politics  (Read 8407 times)

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Offline catastrophe

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #50 on: July 16, 2018, 01:09:43 PM »
Like, wouldn’t the ideal version of your proposal be splitting up into 435 states so folks can get the full bang for their vote?

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #51 on: July 16, 2018, 01:27:13 PM »
Why do (most) states use upper and lower houses?

I see benefits from having local (lower) and regional (upper) representation.
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Offline DQ12

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #52 on: July 16, 2018, 01:52:14 PM »
Very good thread. 

If the EC must exist, I like the idea of EC votes being made proportionally.


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Offline catastrophe

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2018, 02:14:31 PM »
Why do (most) states use upper and lower houses?

I see benefits from having local (lower) and regional (upper) representation.

Maybe to model after the U.S. Congress? Cause that's what we've got right now...

Offline star seed 7

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #54 on: July 16, 2018, 02:17:36 PM »
Why do (most) states use upper and lower houses?

I see benefits from having local (lower) and regional (upper) representation.

Maybe to model after the U.S. Congress? Cause that's what we've got right now...

Maybe think about it for a minute and you'll see the difference
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Offline star seed 7

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #55 on: July 16, 2018, 02:20:49 PM »
I'll help you out...

Quote
The Kansas Senate is the upper chamber of the Kansas Legislature. It is composed of 40 senators each representing one district with a population of approximately 70,986 (adjusted every ten years based on the most recent federal census).
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Offline catastrophe

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #56 on: July 16, 2018, 02:22:04 PM »
Sure, they're not identical because there is no sovereign entity within a state, so I don't know how else you would come up with regional representation that isn't at least loosely population based.  I'm just explaining to you why most state governments are modeled that way.

Just give me some slack because I have no idea whether you are trolling or serious right now.

Offline star seed 7

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #57 on: July 16, 2018, 02:24:53 PM »
I honestly don't know if YOU'RE trolling right now. Of course they'd be based on population. I said that on like post #5 of this thread.
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Offline Spracne

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #58 on: July 16, 2018, 02:25:50 PM »
I'll help you out...

Quote
The Kansas Senate is the upper chamber of the Kansas Legislature. It is composed of 40 senators each representing one district with a population of approximately 70,986 (adjusted every ten years based on the most recent federal census).

Good point. I will say, though, that a bicameral system will inherently be a conservative mechanism, in the sense that it requires more effort to change the status quo. So perhaps that's the rationale (but I do not know).

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #59 on: July 16, 2018, 02:30:04 PM »
I view that as a positive. Wild swings are not good for stability
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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #60 on: July 16, 2018, 02:32:25 PM »
I think Kansas having a house and senate both based on population is fairly inefficient and doesn't make much sense. It would be a lot better to either split the senate representation into regions or do away with it.

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #61 on: July 16, 2018, 02:33:39 PM »
I view that as a positive. Wild swings are not good for stability

Closet conservative??  :Wha:

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #62 on: July 16, 2018, 02:39:20 PM »
I honestly don't know if YOU'RE trolling right now. Of course they'd be based on population. I said that on like post #5 of this thread.

Look friend, I was just answering your question.  The state systems you mention are based on the style we have in the U.S. Congress.  They just go by population because it is way easier and there is no practical way to allow representation for each local government within a state.  I think the burden is on you to explain why regional representation would function better than state representation; and why those goals are not accomplished by just eliminating the Senate altogether.

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #63 on: July 16, 2018, 02:41:08 PM »
I view that as a positive. Wild swings are not good for stability

Closet conservative??  :Wha:

I won't say I'm a centrist because I'm obviously not, but I appreciate (reasoned) opposition to liberal policies.
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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #64 on: July 16, 2018, 02:50:40 PM »
I honestly don't know if YOU'RE trolling right now. Of course they'd be based on population. I said that on like post #5 of this thread.

Look friend, I was just answering your question.  The state systems you mention are based on the style we have in the U.S. Congress.  They just go by population because it is way easier and there is no practical way to allow representation for each local government within a state.  I think the burden is on you to explain why regional representation would function better than state representation; and why those goals are not accomplished by just eliminating the Senate altogether.

It really wouldn't be that impractical to have 1 representative from each county as one branch of state government.

Offline Spracne

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #65 on: July 16, 2018, 02:55:41 PM »
I honestly don't know if YOU'RE trolling right now. Of course they'd be based on population. I said that on like post #5 of this thread.

Look friend, I was just answering your question.  The state systems you mention are based on the style we have in the U.S. Congress.  They just go by population because it is way easier and there is no practical way to allow representation for each local government within a state.  I think the burden is on you to explain why regional representation would function better than state representation; and why those goals are not accomplished by just eliminating the Senate altogether.

It really wouldn't be that impractical to have 1 representative from each county as one branch of state government.

You mean comprising the senate? Or do you mean the legislative branch would be a single body comprised that way?

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #66 on: July 16, 2018, 02:57:22 PM »
I honestly don't know if YOU'RE trolling right now. Of course they'd be based on population. I said that on like post #5 of this thread.

Look friend, I was just answering your question.  The state systems you mention are based on the style we have in the U.S. Congress.  They just go by population because it is way easier and there is no practical way to allow representation for each local government within a state.  I think the burden is on you to explain why regional representation would function better than state representation; and why those goals are not accomplished by just eliminating the Senate altogether.

It really wouldn't be that impractical to have 1 representative from each county as one branch of state government.

You mean comprising the senate? Or do you mean the legislative branch would be a single body comprised that way?

Comprising the senate.

Offline Spracne

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #67 on: July 16, 2018, 03:01:23 PM »
I honestly don't know if YOU'RE trolling right now. Of course they'd be based on population. I said that on like post #5 of this thread.

Look friend, I was just answering your question.  The state systems you mention are based on the style we have in the U.S. Congress.  They just go by population because it is way easier and there is no practical way to allow representation for each local government within a state.  I think the burden is on you to explain why regional representation would function better than state representation; and why those goals are not accomplished by just eliminating the Senate altogether.

It really wouldn't be that impractical to have 1 representative from each county as one branch of state government.

You mean comprising the senate? Or do you mean the legislative branch would be a single body comprised that way?

Comprising the senate.

Yeah, I had considered that option. I just doubt whether Kansas needs 105 senators, especially considering they only have 125 house reps. It would cost the state $millions more each year. And the forces that determined the composition of the federal Congress aren't really present in the intrastate context, so I'm not sure the juice is worth the squeeze. Counties are mere governmental subunits. They have no recognized sovereignty in their own right.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #68 on: July 16, 2018, 03:07:18 PM »
I honestly don't know if YOU'RE trolling right now. Of course they'd be based on population. I said that on like post #5 of this thread.

Look friend, I was just answering your question.  The state systems you mention are based on the style we have in the U.S. Congress.  They just go by population because it is way easier and there is no practical way to allow representation for each local government within a state.  I think the burden is on you to explain why regional representation would function better than state representation; and why those goals are not accomplished by just eliminating the Senate altogether.

It really wouldn't be that impractical to have 1 representative from each county as one branch of state government.

You mean comprising the senate? Or do you mean the legislative branch would be a single body comprised that way?

Comprising the senate.

I think this could be a decent alternative for some states, although it is kind of getting away from my initial point.  As to whether it was contemplated by the founding fathers of each state, I know very little about the history of drawing counties, but my expectation is that the formation of the state legislature likely predated county formation in most states.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #69 on: July 16, 2018, 03:08:42 PM »
I honestly don't know if YOU'RE trolling right now. Of course they'd be based on population. I said that on like post #5 of this thread.

Look friend, I was just answering your question.  The state systems you mention are based on the style we have in the U.S. Congress.  They just go by population because it is way easier and there is no practical way to allow representation for each local government within a state.  I think the burden is on you to explain why regional representation would function better than state representation; and why those goals are not accomplished by just eliminating the Senate altogether.

It really wouldn't be that impractical to have 1 representative from each county as one branch of state government.

You mean comprising the senate? Or do you mean the legislative branch would be a single body comprised that way?

Comprising the senate.

Yeah, I had considered that option. I just doubt whether Kansas needs 105 senators, especially considering they only have 125 house reps. It would cost the state $millions more each year. And the forces that determined the composition of the federal Congress aren't really present in the intrastate context, so I'm not sure the juice is worth the squeeze. Counties are mere governmental subunits. They have no recognized sovereignty in their own right.

You would think that many senators might break the bank, but Kansas only pays its state senators $88.66 per day and only budgets for 100 day sessions.

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #70 on: July 16, 2018, 03:13:11 PM »
Break Up the United States.  Or implement Constitution 2.0.  Or both.

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #71 on: July 16, 2018, 04:02:59 PM »
Why do (most) states use upper and lower houses?

I see benefits from having local (lower) and regional (upper) representation.

yeah it kind of makes sense. the upper house represents broader, more general concerns of a region and the lower house allows smaller groups to get more specialized voices at the national level. Like I enjoy folks like Ocasio in the House and I'm sure people like some the wild tea partiers because it allows more fresh ideas while the upper house can temper them somewhat.

Also, 435 is a pretty strange, arbitrary number for a legislature. (I don't know the correct number).

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #72 on: July 16, 2018, 04:03:46 PM »
Break Up the United States.  Or implement Constitution 2.0.  Or both.

we absolutely should have constitution 2.0. there's a lot of good there but it could use a refresh to reflect modern times.

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #73 on: July 16, 2018, 04:10:06 PM »
Break Up the United States.  Or implement Constitution 2.0.  Or both.

we absolutely should have constitution 2.0. there's a lot of good there but it could use a refresh to reflect modern times.

We've made no progress the past 2 years.  :frown:

http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=37721.msg1576516#msg1576516

Offline Mrs. Gooch

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Re: Minority rule politics
« Reply #74 on: July 16, 2018, 04:52:11 PM »
Break Up the United States.  Or implement Constitution 2.0.  Or both.

Aren't we already basically on Constitution 2.0?