oaf is against the gay lifestyle

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

why is it that god loves everyone but Catholics Hate the everloving Eff out of so many?

Creating a false sense of entitlement is a very lucrative business.

Don't turn this into a anti-government thread.

[Daddy Claxton]

I'm in favor of people who are willing to look at an issue from a viewpoint other than their own and show respect to the person that holds that viewpoint.

Me, too....but not when someone else's viewpoint is that there is something wrong/sinful/evil/disgusting about being gay.

Disclaimer:  I am not gay.  My son IS gay.  It is difficult to watch people treat him like crap because of that fact.

you need to be more tolerant of their intolerance

Stellarcat, why did you assume I was talking about the people on one side of the discussion and not the other? If oaf had looked from a different viewpoint, I don't think he would have used the term "gay lifestyle".  He seems like a thoughtful guy though, so I'll bet he doesn't use it again. I also respect that he has his own sense of morality and how he didn't ask anyone else to adhere to it.

I would think you would be more offended by the discussion about how "they" make good wing men and fashion designers.

Your son is incredibly fortunate to have a parent that knows he's gay and is supportive.  I hope his other parent is also aware and supportive.  Best wishes to all of you and thank god your son does not have Michael Sam's father.

Btw, you're not the only one on this board that deals close to home with being gay.

[Stellarcat]

Stellarcat, why did you assume I was talking about the people on one side of the discussion and not the other? 

I didn't assume anything, actually.  Your quote just seemed like a good jumping off point in the thread for me to make my statement. 

 I also respect that he has his own sense of morality and how he didn't ask anyone else to adhere to it.
 

This is where I take issue with a lot of people (not Oaf specifically).  Gay people aren't telling others that it is wrong to be straight, yet people think it is cool to tell them that they are wrong for being gay.  I think the acceptance vs. intolerance line seems to be directly related to whether or not you think that being gay is a choice.  It also seems outlandish to me to believe that someone would wake up one day and think, "Hey, I choose to have sex with other men.  That seems like the lifestyle that I want to lead!"  And yes, I'm using men in this scenario, because women seem to be a lot less freaked out by close contact with other women.  We generally don't slap each other on the ass during sports, though.  Hmmmm. 

[fun muffin]

Correct, that is your right. I just want people to expand their minds and think about things logically instead of just believing every religious talking point that's been shoved down their throat since birth. I'm an incredible human being irl. If you come to the spring game or FF I'll buy you a beer and we'll probably become best friends. 

Help me to think logically

[steve dave]

I also respect that he has his own sense of morality

describe his "sense of morality" to me in respect to homosexuality and what about it you respect. this is me trying to understand, not be an bad person.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Moral disagreement with homosexuality = bigotry
moral disagreement with abortion = war on woman
Bill Clinton = hero
Christian = belief in some fictional old book
Islam = cultural right to stone homosexuality to death and denigrate women

It all adds up

[steve dave]

Moral disagreement with homosexuality = bigotry
moral disagreement with abortion = war on woman
Bill Clinton = hero
Christian = belief in some fictional old book
Islam = cultural right to stone homosexuality to death and denigrate women

It all adds up

good grief

[Jackstack99EMAW]

 
Just so stupid. 

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Tuck wiener and run

[michigancat]

looks like hippocraticoaf here is in the pocket of BIG BASAL THERMOMETER

late, but omg

[Daddy Claxton]

I also respect that he has his own sense of morality

describe his "sense of morality" to me in respect to homosexuality and what about it you respect. this is me trying to understand, not be an bad person.

He described his sense of morality in quite a bit of detail on his own.  He lost me when he was drawn in to the particularities of sexual intercourse, but I understood that he believes that sex outside of marriage is immoral, whether gay or straight, and that is not a far fetched belief.

Nonetheless, I said I respect that he HAS his own sense of morality.  Meaning that I have respect for someone who comes on here, states what he believes and doesn't just repeat what you, limestone and a few others have already said multiple times.  I respect that you have your own sense of morality, too.  I don't respect those who just repeat what you've already said when I don't get the sense that they've thought about it any further than "I think SD is cool so I'll adopt his opinion and call everyone else a bigot because that's what SD does".

[star seed 7]

I also respect that he has his own sense of morality

describe his "sense of morality" to me in respect to homosexuality and what about it you respect. this is me trying to understand, not be an bad person.

He described his sense of morality in quite a bit of detail on his own.  He lost me when he was drawn in to the particularities of sexual intercourse, but I understood that he believes that sex outside of marriage is immoral, whether gay or straight, and that is not a far fetched belief.

Nonetheless, I said I respect that he HAS his own sense of morality.  Meaning that I have respect for someone who comes on here, states what he believes and doesn't just repeat what you, limestone and a few others have already said multiple times.  I respect that you have your own sense of morality, too.  I don't respect those who just repeat what you've already said when I don't get the sense that they've thought about it any further than "I think SD is cool so I'll adopt his opinion and call everyone else a bigot because that's what SD does".

yeah, i mean no one would just arrive to the conclusion that being gay is ok on their on!

[steve dave]

I also respect that he has his own sense of morality

describe his "sense of morality" to me in respect to homosexuality and what about it you respect. this is me trying to understand, not be an bad person.

He described his sense of morality in quite a bit of detail on his own.  He lost me when he was drawn in to the particularities of sexual intercourse, but I understood that he believes that sex outside of marriage is immoral, whether gay or straight, and that is not a far fetched belief.

Nonetheless, I said I respect that he HAS his own sense of morality.  Meaning that I have respect for someone who comes on here, states what he believes and doesn't just repeat what you, limestone and a few others have already said multiple times.  I respect that you have your own sense of morality, too.  I don't respect those who just repeat what you've already said when I don't get the sense that they've thought about it any further than "I think SD is cool so I'll adopt his opinion and call everyone else a bigot because that's what SD does".

so you don't respect his morals per se, just that he has morals of his own? and you think most of the people posting in this thread don't have their own and are just parroting what I say?

[Daddy Claxton]

I also respect that he has his own sense of morality

describe his "sense of morality" to me in respect to homosexuality and what about it you respect. this is me trying to understand, not be an bad person.

He described his sense of morality in quite a bit of detail on his own.  He lost me when he was drawn in to the particularities of sexual intercourse, but I understood that he believes that sex outside of marriage is immoral, whether gay or straight, and that is not a far fetched belief.

Nonetheless, I said I respect that he HAS his own sense of morality.  Meaning that I have respect for someone who comes on here, states what he believes and doesn't just repeat what you, limestone and a few others have already said multiple times.  I respect that you have your own sense of morality, too.  I don't respect those who just repeat what you've already said when I don't get the sense that they've thought about it any further than "I think SD is cool so I'll adopt his opinion and call everyone else a bigot because that's what SD does".

yeah, i mean no one would just arrive to the conclusion that being gay is ok on their on!

"They" definitely make good wing men and fashion designers from what I hear.

[steve dave]

I mean, your view on whose sense of morality you will accept as their own and whose you will assume is just their following steve dave is building the crap out of my ego. I thank you for that. (this was sarcasm, still trying to understand and not be an bad person!)

[OK_Cat]

Steve Dave...next week is looking super busy for me. Could you give us the list of next week's talking points early? Thx

[OK_Cat]

Oops, disregard lol. That was supposed to be a pm. MY BAD!

[Daddy Claxton]

I also respect that he has his own sense of morality

describe his "sense of morality" to me in respect to homosexuality and what about it you respect. this is me trying to understand, not be an bad person.

He described his sense of morality in quite a bit of detail on his own.  He lost me when he was drawn in to the particularities of sexual intercourse, but I understood that he believes that sex outside of marriage is immoral, whether gay or straight, and that is not a far fetched belief.

Nonetheless, I said I respect that he HAS his own sense of morality.  Meaning that I have respect for someone who comes on here, states what he believes and doesn't just repeat what you, limestone and a few others have already said multiple times.  I respect that you have your own sense of morality, too.  I don't respect those who just repeat what you've already said when I don't get the sense that they've thought about it any further than "I think SD is cool so I'll adopt his opinion and call everyone else a bigot because that's what SD does".

so you don't respect his morals per se, just that he has morals of his own? and you think most of the people posting in this thread don't have their own and are just parroting what I say?

Not sure what "respecting morals per se" really means.  I have my own sense of morals and it is probably different from yours.  Yes I think a number of people on here form their opinion (or at least voice an opinion on here) based on what will get approval from you.

[steve dave]

I also respect that he has his own sense of morality

describe his "sense of morality" to me in respect to homosexuality and what about it you respect. this is me trying to understand, not be an bad person.

He described his sense of morality in quite a bit of detail on his own.  He lost me when he was drawn in to the particularities of sexual intercourse, but I understood that he believes that sex outside of marriage is immoral, whether gay or straight, and that is not a far fetched belief.

Nonetheless, I said I respect that he HAS his own sense of morality.  Meaning that I have respect for someone who comes on here, states what he believes and doesn't just repeat what you, limestone and a few others have already said multiple times.  I respect that you have your own sense of morality, too.  I don't respect those who just repeat what you've already said when I don't get the sense that they've thought about it any further than "I think SD is cool so I'll adopt his opinion and call everyone else a bigot because that's what SD does".

so you don't respect his morals per se, just that he has morals of his own? and you think most of the people posting in this thread don't have their own and are just parroting what I say?

Not sure what "respecting morals per se" really means.  I have my own sense of morals and it is probably different from yours.  Yes I think a number of people on here form their opinion (or at least voice an opinion on here) based on what will get approval from you.

it means you don't respect what his morals are but just the fact he has his own. would you respect him having his own no matter what they were or just having his own that are these specific morals? like, say he said he doesn't like the japanese because when they have sex it makes god cry. would that get your equal respect? would you defend him from people who ridiculed him for that because he had his independent "morality"? would anyone who did just be following steve dave to be cool?

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

I can't even fathom how hollow a person has to be inside to have no comprehension of morality. Nor can a fathom how incredibly stupid a person has to be to not understand what morality is. So sad. I understand that it's difficult for some people to have an honest and open conversation about morality, maturity and what not, but that's obviously not the issue here.

Reli-jellies pray for this person
Reli-bigots attack with your predictable snide fervor

[Daddy Claxton]

Have I riled up BOTH sd and fsd?

Sd, "no" to all your questions.  I respect someone's individual sense of morality if it is consistent with what generally makes people "good".  I think there is a basis of morality for society, but there are some gray areas around the edges where individuals develop their own sense of morality within the gray areas.

I understood oaf's stance as people don't choose which gender they are naturally attracted to, but people have a moral obligation to control their urges.  He said that there is nothing wrong with "being" gay but homosexual sex is equally immoral as heterosexual sex outside of marriage.  I don't have to agree with that to think it is not a far fetched belief.  It's the hate sin/love sinner scenario as someone already pointed out.  That's a tough position to hold with regard to homosexuality because most people can't, in reality or in practice, make the distinction. I don't think oaf is a hateful person and he seems sincere so I give him the benefit of the doubt that he can make the distinction, or at least do his best.  If I'm wrong about that, you and the rest are right to attack him.

FSD, I have no idea what you said.  If that makes me stupid I'll have to live with that.

[Dugout DickStone]

Moral disagreement with homosexuality = bigotry
moral disagreement with abortion = war on woman
Bill Clinton = hero
Christian = belief in some fictional old book
Islam = cultural right to stone homosexuality to death and denigrate women

It all adds up

The Christians who follow the part of the bible that says "love your fellow man regardless of what they do and let God worry about judging them" are fantastic people.  The ones who dig up parts of the bible that give them a license to hate others are weak minded losers.

Same thing about Islam but sub in Koran for bible and Allah for god in the above sentence.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

DC,
I believe you are trying to have an honest discussion on morality. You need to realize that is not possible when the people you are engaging have no concept of what that means.

[Daddy Claxton]

I'm actually more interested in discussing whether someone is per se a bigot if he/she believes homosexual sex is immoral.  I don't think so, but I also know that there is plenty of evidence that people can't make the distinction between the act and the person, and if they can't, they are a bigot.

['taterblast]

DC,
I believe you are trying to have an honest discussion on morality. You need to realize that is not possible when the people you are engaging have no concept of what that means.

Religion differs from morality or a moral system in that it includes stories about events in the past, usually about supernatural beings, that are used to explain or justify the behavior that it prohibits or requires. Sometimes there is no distinction made between a moral code and a code of conduct put forward by a religion, and there is often a considerable overlap in the conduct prohibited or required by religion and that prohibited or required by morality. But religions may prohibit or require more than is prohibited or required by guides to behavior that are explicitly labeled as moral guides, and may allow some behavior that is prohibited by morality. Sometimes morality is regarded as the code of conduct that is put forward by religion, but even when this is not the case, morality is thought by many to need some religious explanation and justification. However, just as with law, some religious practices and precepts are criticized on moral grounds, e.g., discrimination on the basis of race, gender, or sexual orientation. Morality is only a guide to conduct, whereas religion is always more than this.