Author Topic: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests  (Read 19388 times)

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Online wetwillie

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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #50 on: August 20, 2018, 08:07:45 PM »
Are you saying homosexuals are more apt to sexually abuse children?

Nope. That does not at all follow from what I’m saying.

Ok good, I was hoping you weren’t going there.
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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #51 on: August 20, 2018, 09:35:47 PM »
Just deplorable and sad. Here I was hoping they were turning the corner with getting Francis in there, and then set back. I hope he can do the right thing and just clean house all here in the US. Also get these monsters behind bars where they belong. 
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Offline renocat

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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #52 on: August 20, 2018, 09:44:00 PM »
This isn't about homosexuality.
It's about pedophiles, and the Catholic church protecting devients and allowing them to be practicing flergy.  And worse elevating some bishops to hierarchy.
In 2002 there was a similar scandal.  For.this occur again is sickening.
I think marriage would be a good step forward because light will be cast on evil.

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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #53 on: August 21, 2018, 08:10:16 AM »
So I’m supposed to believe that Priests that molest boys are not necessarily gay?

I lost all interest in this thread when I read that. Absurd and idiotic.  rough ridin' libtards
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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #54 on: August 21, 2018, 08:12:49 AM »
How pointing out that an overwhelming number of the crimes against humanity in the church are committed by homosexual pedophiles could somehow be controversial is insane.

Nobody is even arguing that the church should be held accountable.
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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #55 on: August 21, 2018, 08:36:06 AM »
Crimes are horrible and those associated with them should be brought to justice.  It's frustrating that that obvious point even needs to be said. 

However, I find it incredibly hard to believe that 1 in 40 catholics were molested by a priest.  That would mean that 1.75 million people were molested in the US alone.  Which I'm not buying.

The pedophilia/gay argument is pretty weird too.  Regardless of the abuser's sexual orientation, they should be brought to justice.  The Church should do a better job of vetting (and bringing to justice) these people to ensure that the priesthood isn't being co-opted by these people for sexual purposes. 
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 08:42:29 AM by Dlew12 »


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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #56 on: August 21, 2018, 08:42:12 AM »
Crimes are horrible and those associated with them should be brought to justice.  It's frustrating that that obvious point even needs to be said. 

However, I find it incredibly hard to believe that 1 in 40 catholics were molested by a priest.  That would mean that 1.75 million people were molested in the US alone. 



It was hard to believe in 2002. It's not that hard to believe now.

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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #57 on: August 21, 2018, 09:01:28 AM »
The Church should do a better job of vetting (and bringing to justice) these people to ensure that the priesthood isn't being co-opted by these people for sexual purposes.
If by “better job” you mean “start doing anything at all” and “stop actively protecting them from prosecution or losing their job” then yes.  If this was any other organization, there would be hordes calling for it to be shut down entirely. This makes Baylor athletics look tame.
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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #58 on: August 21, 2018, 09:39:51 AM »
The catholic church (and many other churches) are historically successful grifts. like if peter had facebook he'd be touting his ability to make his own hours and work from home and he'd love to tell you how to do the same. the sexual assault stuff is absolutely horrifying but the entire thing should be disbanded even if it wasn't happening. also taxed.

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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #59 on: August 21, 2018, 10:09:47 AM »
The Church should do a better job of vetting (and bringing to justice) these people to ensure that the priesthood isn't being co-opted by these people for sexual purposes.
If by “better job” you mean “start doing anything at all” and “stop actively protecting them from prosecution or losing their job” then yes.  If this was any other organization, there would be hordes calling for it to be shut down entirely. This makes Baylor athletics look tame.
Well it's not "any other organization" and you know that.  The church isn't Walmart. It's not some fungible institution where people can decide to go elsewhere where the policies are better or the prices are lower.  I would expect people who practice Catholicism out of habit or convenience or whatever to leave, but if you truly believe in the tenets of Catholicism, you can't really just decide to join a non-denominational church or something.  I think for those people, the proper response is to seek justice and advocate change within the Church structure to prevent this type of thing happening in the future. 



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Offline catastrophe

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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #60 on: August 21, 2018, 10:14:20 AM »
The catholic church (and many other churches) are historically successful grifts. like if peter had facebook he'd be touting his ability to make his own hours and work from home and he'd love to tell you how to do the same. the sexual assault stuff is absolutely horrifying but the entire thing should be disbanded even if it wasn't happening. also taxed.

Too soon to start politicizing.

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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #61 on: August 21, 2018, 10:17:11 AM »
Anyone politician that actively sought to tax the church would have to go into witness protection.
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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #62 on: August 21, 2018, 10:19:47 AM »
Pretty sure taxing churches would be deemed unconstitutional anyway.


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Offline catastrophe

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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #63 on: August 21, 2018, 10:20:09 AM »
Well it's not "any other organization" and you know that.  The church isn't Walmart. It's not some fungible institution where people can decide to go elsewhere where the policies are better or the prices are lower.  I would expect people who practice Catholicism out of habit or convenience or whatever to leave, but if you truly believe in the tenets of Catholicism, you can't really just decide to join a non-denominational church or something.  I think for those people, the proper response is to seek justice and advocate change within the Church structure to prevent this type of thing happening in the future.

Yeah, this is the obvious answer.  FTR, if something similar happened at Walmart or any private business I wouldn't be calling for them to shut down, but I would be calling for more oversight and a pretty significant overhaul of leadership.  That said, I would encourage any religious person to sincerely consider whether their denomination is actually exemplifying the beliefs they claim.  Catholics should be no exception to that.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #64 on: August 21, 2018, 11:01:01 AM »
Well it's not "any other organization" and you know that.  The church isn't Walmart. It's not some fungible institution where people can decide to go elsewhere where the policies are better or the prices are lower.  I would expect people who practice Catholicism out of habit or convenience or whatever to leave, but if you truly believe in the tenets of Catholicism, you can't really just decide to join a non-denominational church or something.  I think for those people, the proper response is to seek justice and advocate change within the Church structure to prevent this type of thing happening in the future.

Agreed. Like I said a few posts back, the Wal-Mart comparison is absurd, but thanks for taking the time to explain the obvious.

The pedophilia/gay argument is pretty weird too.  Regardless of the abuser's sexual orientation, they should be brought to justice.  The Church should do a better job of vetting (and bringing to justice) these people to ensure that the priesthood isn't being co-opted by these people for sexual purposes. 

The Church should also be focused on better reporting and enforcement measures, but doing a better job of barring the bad apples from the priesthood in the first place is just as important. To that end, while the undeniable homosexual element to the abuse makes people very uncomfortable from a PC standpoint, it is relevant when considering how to best prevent future abuse.

Some gays such as Andrew Sullivan acknowledge the link but believe that it's the closeted, sexually repressed, and self-hating nature (his words) of gays who choose to enter the priesthood that makes them particularly prone to being abusers. So is the solution to allow priests to marry, thus making the Church a less enticing draw for that sort of person? Seems like a good idea to me for all sorts of reasons - not just this. Or maybe the solution is to allow gay priests to serve openly (let's get real - that's not gonna happen). Or maybe be more stringent in barring homosexuals from entering the priesthood (hard to see how that's practical, or consistent with the idea that priests are supposed to be celibate anyway).

It's a difficult but important issue for the Church (and really everyone). What we don't need is the typical liberal politically correct denial of the obvious and efforts to shut down any discussion on the topic by calling people bigots, etc.
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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #65 on: August 21, 2018, 11:04:04 AM »
The Church should do a better job of vetting (and bringing to justice) these people to ensure that the priesthood isn't being co-opted by these people for sexual purposes.
If by “better job” you mean “start doing anything at all” and “stop actively protecting them from prosecution or losing their job” then yes.  If this was any other organization, there would be hordes calling for it to be shut down entirely. This makes Baylor athletics look tame.
Well it's not "any other organization" and you know that.  The church isn't Walmart. It's not some fungible institution where people can decide to go elsewhere where the policies are better or the prices are lower.  I would expect people who practice Catholicism out of habit or convenience or whatever to leave, but if you truly believe in the tenets of Catholicism, you can't really just decide to join a non-denominational church or something.  I think for those people, the proper response is to seek justice and advocate change within the Church structure to prevent this type of thing happening in the future.

That approach seems to have been a dismal failure that has destroyed hundreds of lives.

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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #66 on: August 21, 2018, 11:05:30 AM »
Catholics don't represent Christianity.  They don't believe what's in the Bible.  It's not surprising the Catholic church is continually involved in such evil. 

Sincerely,

Reformed Baptist

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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #67 on: August 21, 2018, 11:12:38 AM »
The Church should do a better job of vetting (and bringing to justice) these people to ensure that the priesthood isn't being co-opted by these people for sexual purposes.
If by “better job” you mean “start doing anything at all” and “stop actively protecting them from prosecution or losing their job” then yes.  If this was any other organization, there would be hordes calling for it to be shut down entirely. This makes Baylor athletics look tame.
Well it's not "any other organization" and you know that.  The church isn't Walmart. It's not some fungible institution where people can decide to go elsewhere where the policies are better or the prices are lower.  I would expect people who practice Catholicism out of habit or convenience or whatever to leave, but if you truly believe in the tenets of Catholicism, you can't really just decide to join a non-denominational church or something.  I think for those people, the proper response is to seek justice and advocate change within the Church structure to prevent this type of thing happening in the future.

That approach seems to have been a dismal failure that has destroyed hundreds of lives.

millions of lives, actually

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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #68 on: August 21, 2018, 11:16:08 AM »
Yeah I realized I was way low

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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #69 on: August 21, 2018, 11:20:33 AM »
Well it's not "any other organization" and you know that.  The church isn't Walmart. It's not some fungible institution where people can decide to go elsewhere where the policies are better or the prices are lower.  I would expect people who practice Catholicism out of habit or convenience or whatever to leave, but if you truly believe in the tenets of Catholicism, you can't really just decide to join a non-denominational church or something.  I think for those people, the proper response is to seek justice and advocate change within the Church structure to prevent this type of thing happening in the future.

That approach seems to have been a dismal failure that has destroyed hundreds of lives.
What approach are you talking about?  The one where people seek justice and change? 

If people within an institution do horrible things, is the only proper response to completely abandon the institution?  That would leave us with very few institutions.


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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #70 on: August 21, 2018, 11:24:12 AM »
The only way the catholic church is ever going to change is if a significant number of people completely abandon them. Maybe a proper response would be to attend, but give your tithe to some charity so your money doesn't go toward the rape of children until the church makes meaningful changes to its structure.

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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #71 on: August 21, 2018, 11:25:08 AM »
Well it's not "any other organization" and you know that.  The church isn't Walmart. It's not some fungible institution where people can decide to go elsewhere where the policies are better or the prices are lower.  I would expect people who practice Catholicism out of habit or convenience or whatever to leave, but if you truly believe in the tenets of Catholicism, you can't really just decide to join a non-denominational church or something.  I think for those people, the proper response is to seek justice and advocate change within the Church structure to prevent this type of thing happening in the future.

That approach seems to have been a dismal failure that has destroyed hundreds of lives.
What approach are you talking about?  The one where people seek justice and change? 

If people within an institution do horrible things, is the only proper response to completely abandon the institution?  That would leave us with very few institutions.

The approach where the church begs for forgiveness, says they are ashamed and to pray for the victims while saying its wrong to abandon the church - but then changes zero and everyone forgets/moves on.  While at the same time they lobby for shortened SOL's so they won't have to pay the people who were raped at age 10.

That approach is the one that seems to have failed in my non-expert opinion.

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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #72 on: August 21, 2018, 11:26:31 AM »
Well it's not "any other organization" and you know that.  The church isn't Walmart. It's not some fungible institution where people can decide to go elsewhere where the policies are better or the prices are lower.  I would expect people who practice Catholicism out of habit or convenience or whatever to leave, but if you truly believe in the tenets of Catholicism, you can't really just decide to join a non-denominational church or something.  I think for those people, the proper response is to seek justice and advocate change within the Church structure to prevent this type of thing happening in the future.

That approach seems to have been a dismal failure that has destroyed hundreds of lives.
What approach are you talking about?  The one where people seek justice and change? 

If people within an institution do horrible things, is the only proper response to completely abandon the institution?  That would leave us with very few institutions.

The approach where the church begs for forgiveness, says they are ashamed and to pray for the victims while saying its wrong to abandon the church - but then changes zero and everyone forgets/moves on.  While at the same time they lobby for shortened SOL's so they won't have to pay the people who were raped at age 10.

That approach is the one that seems to have failed in my non-expert opinion.
Yeah, no crap. 

Nobody in this thread is saying that the church should provide lip-service and change nothing. 


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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #73 on: August 21, 2018, 11:29:09 AM »
No one ever says that yet that's exactly what they have done.  It's going to happen again in 8-10 years in another state.  Probably NY or VA.  Maybe NJ

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Re: The Catholics. My goodness. Deviant Priests
« Reply #74 on: August 21, 2018, 11:36:30 AM »
No one ever says that yet that's exactly what they have done.  It's going to happen again in 8-10 years in another state.  Probably NY or VA.  Maybe NJ
I agree that Church has done an inadequate job of addressing this, and I hope they do a better job in the future, and believe they can.   Hopefully punishments laid out by the justice system can help punish, disincentivize and prevent the bad behavior.


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