The Trump Presidency

[puniraptor]

children of men: dystopia or utopia?

an essay by sun dance kid

[Rage Against the McKee]

Can someone explain how a guy that works the same job as me, also rents, and contributes to society at the same level gets 12k back on his taxes compared to my 200? Both us of having the absolute minimum taken out of our checks.

How is being married, in a single income home, with three kids worth 12k?

This isn't something that seriously upsets me. I live a great life and can afford to do most anything I want to do. It's something that makes no sense to me.

if you divide his income amongst his 5 component beings then you will see that per capita his family makes 1/5 what you do

Who made the choice to do that?

Not the kids who would suffer without the tax breaks.

[420seriouscat69]

It's in any state's self interest to have future citizens. Providing incentives for that makes perfect sense.

That's the rationale? Ok. Thanks. Silly that the state believes it needs to pay it's citizens to have unprotected sex, but ok.

How many oops's do you think are out there? Not everyone is single and 33.

[puniraptor]

i consider it more like an investment than a subsidy. it increases their chances of not being illiterate starving criminals.

[420seriouscat69]

Buying houses, having kids, getting married, etc. = contributing to society in the governments eyes.

[catastrophe]

Why do you presume that if a head of household makes more money then his/her children will benefit? If the interest is on children then just expand programs like WIC or Medicaid or  even schools.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

To be fair, truly low income families generally do not pay taxes as is. So tax credits do nothing for them. These policies have the most impact on middle class families, who can afford to have 1-2 kids and are certainly free (but should not be encouraged) to have more. I would, however, be in favor of a substantial adoption tax credit.

I think you are confusing tax deductions with credits. Deductions reduce your taxable income, and therefore have less benefit to no benefit for people with income that's already below the standard deduction. Many tax credits are "refundable", meaning the gov pays you the credit whether you have any taxable income or not, as long as you file a return. So many tax credits are a huge subsidy to poors - especially the child tax credit. Granted, there are also tax credits for rich people stuff the poors could never afford, like electric cars.

I would much prefer tax reform that replaces credits with more generous deductions. 

[gatoveintisiete]

Is there a good argument for tax credits either for individuals or corporations?  Are they a symptom that your system is broken? 

[star seed 7]

I don't think there should be any credits or deductions. Adjust the rates properly to account for that and then taxes are fair and uncomplicated. I hate social engineering through tax policy.

[catastrophe]

To be fair, truly low income families generally do not pay taxes as is. So tax credits do nothing for them. These policies have the most impact on middle class families, who can afford to have 1-2 kids and are certainly free (but should not be encouraged) to have more. I would, however, be in favor of a substantial adoption tax credit.

I think you are confusing tax deductions with credits. Deductions reduce your taxable income, and therefore have less benefit to no benefit for people with income that's already below the standard deduction. Many tax credits are "refundable", meaning the gov pays you the credit whether you have any taxable income or not, as long as you file a return. So many tax credits are a huge subsidy to poors - especially the child tax credit. Granted, there are also tax credits for rich people stuff the poors could never afford, like electric cars.

I would much prefer tax reform that replaces credits with more generous deductions.

A credit is exactly what I said it was.  You're just saying there is a separate law that currently allows people to claim a refund of the portion of the child tax credit that does not reduce their taxes.

And what is the point of replacing a credit with a more generous deduction?  Just to disproportionately assist people in higher tax brackets instead of lower brackets?

[puniraptor]

One thing I hate about the Trump tax plan is that he wants to reduce the number of brackets. Brackets are literally the least complicated thing about taxes.

[SdK]

children of men: dystopia or utopia?

an essay by sun dance kid

Hahaha. I'll write one out if I ever get irked enough about all of this.

[star seed 7]

One thing I hate about the Trump tax plan is that he wants to reduce the number of brackets. Brackets are literally the least complicated thing about taxes.

Yes, and we need more

[puniraptor]

What percent of our GDP is the taxation industrial complex? Probably a decent chunk. Can't just put all this people out of work by simplifying the tax code.

[SdK]

Why do you presume that if a head of household makes more money then his/her children will benefit? If the interest is on children then just expand programs like WIC or Medicaid or  even schools.

This.

[SdK]

I don't think there should be any credits or deductions. Adjust the rates properly to account for that and then taxes are fair and uncomplicated. I hate social engineering through tax policy.

Also, this.

[puniraptor]

It should just be a curve, why eff with brackets at all

[catastrophe]

It should just be a curve, why eff with brackets at all

Because that WOULD be confusing.

[cfbandyman]

One thing I hate about the Drumpf tax plan is that he wants to reduce the number of brackets. Brackets are literally the least complicated thing about taxes.

Yes, and we need more

We should have like 15-20 of them.

[star seed 7]

A curve is fine

[Phil Titola]

To be fair, truly low income families generally do not pay taxes as is. So tax credits do nothing for them. These policies have the most impact on middle class families, who can afford to have 1-2 kids and are certainly free (but should not be encouraged) to have more. I would, however, be in favor of a substantial adoption tax credit.

I think you are confusing tax deductions with credits. Deductions reduce your taxable income, and therefore have less benefit to no benefit for people with income that's already below the standard deduction. Many tax credits are "refundable", meaning the gov pays you the credit whether you have any taxable income or not, as long as you file a return. So many tax credits are a huge subsidy to poors - especially the child tax credit. Granted, there are also tax credits for rich people stuff the poors could never afford, like electric cars.

I would much prefer tax reform that replaces credits with more generous deductions.

Then quit supoorting bad reform.

[SdK]

I do love curves myself.

[The Big Train]

It should just be a curve, why eff with brackets at all

Don’t let mocat write the equation for it lol

[star seed 7]

 

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

I don't think there should be any credits or deductions. Adjust the rates properly to account for that and then taxes are fair and uncomplicated. I hate social engineering through tax policy.

Agreed. Seems to me that this is less a liberal versus conservative issue, and more a special interest versus ordinary American issue.