Ta-Nehisi Coates Master Thread

[MakeItRain]

Although not the reason I started this thread, you can't have a Ta-Nehisi Coates master thread without his Mona Lisa, it's been posted plenty of times before

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/

[michigancat]

He's a fantastic writer.

[star seed 7]

Absolutely HATED by the cloak room

[MakeItRain]

Here's the actual reason for the master thread

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/bernie-sanders-liberal-imagination/425022/

If it's possible to agree with the article and disagree with the article then I am that. I don't think it's fair for Coates to think like he is black, whether he marched with Dr. King or not. I also don't think it's fair to assume that Sanders can't evolve on this issue, frankly I'm not sure he has given it much thought. He evolved on BLM. For the life of me I don't understand why liberal politicians just can't say "I believe we should consider reparations but I'm not sure how we can pay for it." Or "I believe we should consider reparations but I will need the help of the republican congress to make it a reality."

Here is an incredibly stupid rebuttal article. "The black guy doesn't think we should pay reparations so get off of Bernie's back."
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-obama-doesn-back-reparations-don-blast-sanders-article-1.2506362

[renocat]

Well boo whoo.  Many groups have had horrible horse manure done to them, but no to reparations to any of them.  If you tax the hell out of me so there is money for them, I will holler injustice and demand reparations.  Let's make things better for disadvantaged populations, not give them blood money to soothe our minds, but really make a difference.

[MakeItRain]

Many groups have had horrible horse manure done to them, but no to reparations to any of them.

false

[CNS]

The real issue is that it would be too expensive given the size of the pop effected and the length of time it took place.

[michigancat]

The real issue is that it would be too expensive given the size of the pop effected and the length of time it took place.

That's not a good reason to not do anything. Like, how much can we afford?

[CNS]

I am not saying it's a good reason.  I am saying it is the reason.  Your question is only good down to a certain amt before it becomes symbolic at beat but more likely insulting.

[michigancat]

I am not saying it's a good reason.  I am saying it is the reason.  Your question is only good down to a certain amt before it becomes symbolic at beat but more likely insulting.

More insulting than nothing at all?

[CNS]

"Here's $100.  Sorry your ancestors were enslaved for a couple hundred yrs."

[cfbandyman]

I've read his stuff and he makes of course very compelling arguments. More to CNS's point though I think why the amount becomes sticky is how much? How do you calculate what is owed, and what is considered "fair" to all sides? Would $100 billion set aside be enough or a slap to the face (that would come out BTW to around $2400/person for 41.7 million African Americans living in the US). Would you calculate it for the average amount of slaves working 60 hour weeks at nominal farm wages over the lifespan of the US (1776-1865) and is that even fair and good enough? Like I agree that reparations should happen, but what would solve the problem? MIR, thoughts?

[michigancat]

I've read his stuff and he makes of course very compelling arguments. More to CNS's point though I think why the amount becomes sticky is how much? How do you calculate what is owed, and what is considered "fair" to all sides? Would $100 billion set aside be enough or a slap to the face (that would come out BTW to around $2400/person for 41.7 million African Americans living in the US). Would you calculate it for the average amount of slaves working 60 hour weeks at nominal farm wages over the lifespan of the US (1776-1865) and is that even fair and good enough? Like I agree that reparations should happen, but what would solve the problem? MIR, thoughts?

The numeric value can all be calculated for whatever you want. (in his original piece, he mentions housing discrimination as a major issue beyond slavery, as well.) Someone just needs to start a conversation and hash it out. Right now it's basically a non-starter (as even the most liberal major political candidate in recent memory won't touch the subject), which is sad and wrong.

[star seed 7]

I've read his stuff and he makes of course very compelling arguments. More to CNS's point though I think why the amount becomes sticky is how much? How do you calculate what is owed, and what is considered "fair" to all sides? Would $100 billion set aside be enough or a slap to the face (that would come out BTW to around $2400/person for 41.7 million African Americans living in the US). Would you calculate it for the average amount of slaves working 60 hour weeks at nominal farm wages over the lifespan of the US (1776-1865) and is that even fair and good enough? Like I agree that reparations should happen, but what would solve the problem? MIR, thoughts?

The numeric value can all be calculated for whatever you want. (in his original piece, he mentions housing discrimination as a major issue beyond slavery, as well.) Someone just needs to start a conversation and hash it out. Right now it's basically a non-starter (as even the most liberal major political candidate in recent memory won't touch the subject), which is sad and wrong.

something i never see opponents talk about at all.

[cfbandyman]

I've read his stuff and he makes of course very compelling arguments. More to CNS's point though I think why the amount becomes sticky is how much? How do you calculate what is owed, and what is considered "fair" to all sides? Would $100 billion set aside be enough or a slap to the face (that would come out BTW to around $2400/person for 41.7 million African Americans living in the US). Would you calculate it for the average amount of slaves working 60 hour weeks at nominal farm wages over the lifespan of the US (1776-1865) and is that even fair and good enough? Like I agree that reparations should happen, but what would solve the problem? MIR, thoughts?

The numeric value can all be calculated for whatever you want. (in his original piece, he mentions housing discrimination as a major issue beyond slavery, as well.) Someone just needs to start a conversation and hash it out. Right now it's basically a non-starter (as even the most liberal major political candidate in recent memory won't touch the subject), which is sad and wrong.

I agree that it's a sad and wrong that that isn't being talked about, but just brushing it as "you can come up with w/e amount" and "hashing it out" and leaving it at that is just not thinking the problem and solution through and IMO I'm trying to start said conversation. I'd be worried that whatever that number is, it would seem disingenuous to African American (what? they only giving us this? white people screwing us over again), and I also would wonder if any sort of amount will truly fix the problem (IMO it won't, it'll help, a step in the right direction, but systematic racism over time can only take time and diligence to eradicate, if ever). Those of course shouldn't be stumbling blocks to fixing the problem, I guess I'm exhausted of hearing a problem and not offering or hearing what would be a solution. Problems are a dime a dozen, I literally hear hundreds everyday big and small, necessary and cosmetic, but few people ever offer a solution or a step towards what they want the solution to look like. That's why I asked MIR what would he'd like to see.

I do however, find it odd that Coates is so disappointed in Bernie over this. Sure, Bernie should be the guy to try to take this on, but it's odd to pick on a guy who has done so much over the years to work on righting the wrongs when literally all the others won't come close to touching the subject either. Guess you can't be everything to everyone. 

[CNS]

I think post slavery policy and common practices were horrible and to blame for excluding the black pop from a lot of economic oppy for several generations, but I don't see how they could be considered into reparations.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

I'd put this whole thread in the Uber Libtarded repository if I wasn't, ironically, too lazy to do it.

What's ironic you ask? The lazy points being made by the advocate libtards in this thread

[michigancat]

I've read his stuff and he makes of course very compelling arguments. More to CNS's point though I think why the amount becomes sticky is how much? How do you calculate what is owed, and what is considered "fair" to all sides? Would $100 billion set aside be enough or a slap to the face (that would come out BTW to around $2400/person for 41.7 million African Americans living in the US). Would you calculate it for the average amount of slaves working 60 hour weeks at nominal farm wages over the lifespan of the US (1776-1865) and is that even fair and good enough? Like I agree that reparations should happen, but what would solve the problem? MIR, thoughts?

The numeric value can all be calculated for whatever you want. (in his original piece, he mentions housing discrimination as a major issue beyond slavery, as well.) Someone just needs to start a conversation and hash it out. Right now it's basically a non-starter (as even the most liberal major political candidate in recent memory won't touch the subject), which is sad and wrong.

I agree that it's a sad and wrong that that isn't being talked about, but just brushing it as "you can come up with w/e amount" and "hashing it out" and leaving it at that is just not thinking the problem and solution through and IMO I'm trying to start said conversation. I'd be worried that whatever that number is, it would seem disingenuous to African American (what? they only giving us this? white people screwing us over again), and I also would wonder if any sort of amount will truly fix the problem (IMO it won't, it'll help, a step in the right direction, but systematic racism over time can only take time and diligence to eradicate, if ever). Those of course shouldn't be stumbling blocks to fixing the problem, I guess I'm exhausted of hearing a problem and not offering or hearing what would be a solution. Problems are a dime a dozen, I literally hear hundreds everyday big and small, necessary and cosmetic, but few people ever offer a solution or a step towards what they want the solution to look like. That's why I asked MIR what would he'd like to see.

I do however, find it odd that Coates is so disappointed in Bernie over this. Sure, Bernie should be the guy to try to take this on, but it's odd to pick on a guy who has done so much over the years to work on righting the wrongs when literally all the others won't come close to touching the subject either. Guess you can't be everything to everyone.

I'm smart enough to realize that I can't calculate the proper amount that should be paid nor how to pay for it in the afternoon that this thread has been active. That doesn't mean I'm not trying to find a solution, it's just that we're in the extremely early stages.

Basically, the first step is convincing people this is something the government should do. Second step is quantifying the amount of wage and wealth lost. (Probably already done.) Next step is defining who should get paid and how much. Then you figure out how to redirect or raise that money. Seems reasonable?

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

 

[EMAWican]

I say the reparation line starts with Native Americans.

[CNS]

They get them.  Not addressing value, but they have land, no taxes, fed funds, etc.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

I say it starts with the indentured servants on the mayflower.

[Skipper44]

wouldn't they be owed the GDP since 1776 or so? 

[EMAWican]

They get them.  Not addressing value, but they have land, no taxes, fed funds, etc.

The miniscule value of benefits and their general ineffectiveness is the biggest argument.

[cfbandyman]

I've read his stuff and he makes of course very compelling arguments. More to CNS's point though I think why the amount becomes sticky is how much? How do you calculate what is owed, and what is considered "fair" to all sides? Would $100 billion set aside be enough or a slap to the face (that would come out BTW to around $2400/person for 41.7 million African Americans living in the US). Would you calculate it for the average amount of slaves working 60 hour weeks at nominal farm wages over the lifespan of the US (1776-1865) and is that even fair and good enough? Like I agree that reparations should happen, but what would solve the problem? MIR, thoughts?

The numeric value can all be calculated for whatever you want. (in his original piece, he mentions housing discrimination as a major issue beyond slavery, as well.) Someone just needs to start a conversation and hash it out. Right now it's basically a non-starter (as even the most liberal major political candidate in recent memory won't touch the subject), which is sad and wrong.

I agree that it's a sad and wrong that that isn't being talked about, but just brushing it as "you can come up with w/e amount" and "hashing it out" and leaving it at that is just not thinking the problem and solution through and IMO I'm trying to start said conversation. I'd be worried that whatever that number is, it would seem disingenuous to African American (what? they only giving us this? white people screwing us over again), and I also would wonder if any sort of amount will truly fix the problem (IMO it won't, it'll help, a step in the right direction, but systematic racism over time can only take time and diligence to eradicate, if ever). Those of course shouldn't be stumbling blocks to fixing the problem, I guess I'm exhausted of hearing a problem and not offering or hearing what would be a solution. Problems are a dime a dozen, I literally hear hundreds everyday big and small, necessary and cosmetic, but few people ever offer a solution or a step towards what they want the solution to look like. That's why I asked MIR what would he'd like to see.

I do however, find it odd that Coates is so disappointed in Bernie over this. Sure, Bernie should be the guy to try to take this on, but it's odd to pick on a guy who has done so much over the years to work on righting the wrongs when literally all the others won't come close to touching the subject either. Guess you can't be everything to everyone.

I'm smart enough to realize that I can't calculate the proper amount that should be paid nor how to pay for it in the afternoon that this thread has been active. That doesn't mean I'm not trying to find a solution, it's just that we're in the extremely early stages.

Basically, the first step is convincing people this is something the government should do. Second step is quantifying the amount of wage and wealth lost. (Probably already done.) Next step is defining who should get paid and how much. Then you figure out how to redirect or raise that money. Seems reasonable?

Sure. Just none of those are easy. But yes, that's the overall idea.