_FANalysis: K-State QBs

[bubbles4ksu]

looking at Waters' and Sams' overall INT's, if Sams was allowed to throw as much as waters, he'd have 13 INTs so far this year. 

he wasn't allowed to throw until being asked to make comebacks against ranked teams. what a dumbass you must be to ignore this fact. 

oh, so when we have to have comebacks he's not our guy.  got it.

did you see what i said about not being allowed to practice throwing the ball before those situations? did you see it but not understand the relevance?

[kougar24]

[ChiComCat]

looking at Waters' and Sams' overall INT's, if Sams was allowed to throw as much as waters, he'd have 13 INTs so far this year. 

If Waters was allowed to run as much as Sams, he would have 10 fumbles

Also, in fairness, Sams would have certainly had at least a couple three and outs on third and long when Bill put Waters in.

[ChiComCat]

Things like the detail on the plate is what makes Poonhound69 the best at these

[Rage Against the McKee]

TD%

Sams: 38.5%

Waters: 20.7%

Even ignoring the fact that most of Sams' drives have been against better defenses than Waters' drives, this makes a Sams drive 86% more likely to end in a touchdown than a Waters drive. How can anybody be on the fence after seeing that statistic?

Also, a Waters drive is 94% more likely to end in a punt than a Sams drive.

[kougar24]

Things like the detail on the plate is what makes Poonhound69 the best at these

[kslim]

I didn't check the fanalysis but can someone tell me how many points we have left on the field when waters is in? Off the top of my head I think he has turned it over 3/4 times in scoring territory and that's the only stat I care about

[Rage Against the McKee]

I didn't check the fanalysis but can someone tell me how many points we have left on the field when waters is in? Off the top of my head I think he has turned it over 3/4 times in scoring territory and that's the only stat I care about

Going by points per drive, we have left 30-31 points on the field.

[Belvis Noland]

TD%

Sams: 38.5%

Waters: 20.7%

Even ignoring the fact that most of Sams' drives have been against better defenses than Waters' drives, this makes a Sams drive 86% more likely to end in a touchdown than a Waters drive. How can anybody be on the fence after seeing that statistic?

Also, a Waters drive is 94% more likely to end in a punt than a Sams drive.

Because Waters is better at +30yrd passes.  which, of course, is an incredibly important stat for our air-it-out, spread-it-out, high flying, playground offense. 

[kslim]

I didn't check the fanalysis but can someone tell me how many points we have left on the field when waters is in? Off the top of my head I think he has turned it over 3/4 times in scoring territory and that's the only stat I care about

Going by points per drive, we have left 30-31 points on the field.

with just jake or combined? And to be more clear I'm talking turnovers inside our opponents 30 or better

[Rage Against the McKee]

I didn't check the fanalysis but can someone tell me how many points we have left on the field when waters is in? Off the top of my head I think he has turned it over 3/4 times in scoring territory and that's the only stat I care about

Going by points per drive, we have left 30-31 points on the field.

with just jake or combined? And to be more clear I'm talking turnovers inside our opponents 30 or better

Well, that's kind of dumb, because the offense has to get the ball inside the opponent's 30 to lose the ball there, and there is no guarantee that the other guy would have even done that. Sams is scoring 2.81 points per drive. Waters is scoring 1.76. Waters has led 29 drives in Big 12 play, so 29*2.81-29*1.76 = 30.45, which is about how many more points we would have scored in our Big 12 games by not playing Waters, based upon the stats.

Edited to point out that I'm not calling kslimb dumb, just saying that his method is flawed.

[kslim]

I didn't check the fanalysis but can someone tell me how many points we have left on the field when waters is in? Off the top of my head I think he has turned it over 3/4 times in scoring territory and that's the only stat I care about

Going by points per drive, we have left 30-31 points on the field.

with just jake or combined? And to be more clear I'm talking turnovers inside our opponents 30 or better

Well, that's kind of dumb, because the offense has to get the ball inside the opponent's 30 to lose the ball there, and there is no guarantee that the other guy would have even done that. Sams is scoring 2.81 points per drive. Waters is scoring 1.76. Waters has led 29 drives in Big 12 play, so 29*2.81-29*1.76 = 30.45, which is about how many more points we would have scored in our Big 12 games by not playing Waters, based upon the stats.

ok I honestly didn't know, I just remember the fumbles when we had a chance to score in close games. I will state I have selective memory so it doesn't help waters case with me

[yoga-like_abana]

stats may lie but the ball dont lie! BUCKETS!

[Rage Against the McKee]

I didn't check the fanalysis but can someone tell me how many points we have left on the field when waters is in? Off the top of my head I think he has turned it over 3/4 times in scoring territory and that's the only stat I care about

Going by points per drive, we have left 30-31 points on the field.

with just jake or combined? And to be more clear I'm talking turnovers inside our opponents 30 or better

Well, that's kind of dumb, because the offense has to get the ball inside the opponent's 30 to lose the ball there, and there is no guarantee that the other guy would have even done that. Sams is scoring 2.81 points per drive. Waters is scoring 1.76. Waters has led 29 drives in Big 12 play, so 29*2.81-29*1.76 = 30.45, which is about how many more points we would have scored in our Big 12 games by not playing Waters, based upon the stats.

ok I honestly didn't know, I just remember the fumbles when we had a chance to score in close games. I will state I have selective memory so it doesn't help waters case with me

Both QBs have been bad with turnovers. Sams has just been about 86% better when he's not turning the ball over.

[kso_FAN]

I didn't check the fanalysis but can someone tell me how many points we have left on the field when waters is in? Off the top of my head I think he has turned it over 3/4 times in scoring territory and that's the only stat I care about

Going by points per drive, we have left 30-31 points on the field.

with just jake or combined? And to be more clear I'm talking turnovers inside our opponents 30 or better

Waters had fumbles inside the 10 at UT and inside the 20 vs WVU. Sams also fumbled into the endzone vs WVU and had a fumble inside the 30 vs OSU.

[Belvis Noland]

Waters had fumbles inside the 10 at UT and inside the 20 vs WVU. Sams also fumbled into the endzone vs WVU and had a fumble inside the 30 vs OSU.

Although the OSU fumble wasn't really a fumble. 

[steve dave]

every important stat points to our guy daniel being the better option even after the compiler of the stats removes jakes worst game and ignores the snaps without our only two playmaking WRs against by far our best competition.....

I'm on the fence, both basically equal

 

[kougar24]

Sams also fumbled into the endzone vs WVU and had a fumble inside the 30 vs OSU.

waters_FAN's true colors are showing...

[kslim]

I didn't check the fanalysis but can someone tell me how many points we have left on the field when waters is in? Off the top of my head I think he has turned it over 3/4 times in scoring territory and that's the only stat I care about

Going by points per drive, we have left 30-31 points on the field.

with just jake or combined? And to be more clear I'm talking turnovers inside our opponents 30 or better

Waters had fumbles inside the 10 at UT and inside the 20 vs WVU. Sams also fumbled into the endzone vs WVU and had a fumble inside the 30 vs OSU.

okay thank you. I won't view sams fumble at osu because it was an awful call but the point remains we turn it over too much on scoring opportunities and it sucks because we could be 6-2

[catzacker]

I didn't check the fanalysis but can someone tell me how many points we have left on the field when waters is in? Off the top of my head I think he has turned it over 3/4 times in scoring territory and that's the only stat I care about

Going by points per drive, we have left 30-31 points on the field.

with just jake or combined? And to be more clear I'm talking turnovers inside our opponents 30 or better

Waters had fumbles inside the 10 at UT and inside the 20 vs WVU. Sams also fumbled into the endzone vs WVU and had a fumble inside the 30 vs OSU.

_Fan, Sams' fumble against OSU doesn't count because TBL and TT weren't in the game against OSU.

Neither do his INT's against OSU and Baylor.  TBL and TT would have been able to come back 15 or so yards and catch those severely under thrown deep(er) passes.

[kostakio]

every important stat points to our guy daniel being the better option even after the compiler of the stats removes jakes worst game and ignores the snaps without our only two playmaking WRs against by far our best competition.....

I'm on the fence, both basically equal

 

I reject the notion that it is all or nothing with Sams.  Can he realistically carry it 25 or 30 times week in and week out?  If the answer is no can he be equally effective playing the entire game and carrying it 15 times or so?  I think both QB's have been at their best in the games with more equal rotations so why not just stick to that  Both guys have been turnover machines in the games where they played the vast majority of snaps.       

[kso_FAN]

every important stat points to our guy daniel being the better option even after the compiler of the stats removes jakes worst game and ignores the snaps without our only two playmaking WRs against by far our best competition.....

I'm on the fence, both basically equal

 

I believe I stated the premise was to compare each in Big 12 play, and given that they played equal snaps I think the comparison is fair. Plus, as sd said, the numbers don't bend toward Waters anyway. As for the games without Thompson/Lockett, there isn't much I can do about that. I gave you the drive% for each QB in this thread without them, so I think the comparison still has some validity.

I agree that the fumble vs OSU was questionable, but the play was reviewed and upheld, so it still counts. 

Also, I said in the blog post that the numbers favor Sams, just not enough for me to get off the fence on the dual QB show at this point.

[EllRobersonisInnocent]

I didn't check the fanalysis but can someone tell me how many points we have left on the field when waters is in? Off the top of my head I think he has turned it over 3/4 times in scoring territory and that's the only stat I care about

Going by points per drive, we have left 30-31 points on the field.

with just jake or combined? And to be more clear I'm talking turnovers inside our opponents 30 or better

Waters had fumbles inside the 10 at UT and inside the 20 vs WVU. Sams also fumbled into the endzone vs WVU and had a fumble inside the 30 vs OSU.

_Fan, Sams' fumble against OSU doesn't count because TBL and TT weren't in the game against OSU.

Neither do his INT's against OSU and Baylor.  TBL and TT would have been able to come back 15 or so yards and catch those severely under thrown deep(er) passes.

I don't care what the call on the field was, it wasn't a fumble you dumb eff.

[kso_FAN]

_Fan, Sams' fumble against OSU doesn't count because TBL and TT weren't in the game against OSU.

Neither do his INT's against OSU and Baylor.  TBL and TT would have been able to come back 15 or so yards and catch those severely under thrown deep(er) passes.

Thanks, I needed some ZACKalysis to verify that. That makes things a lot more clear.

[catzacker]

I didn't check the fanalysis but can someone tell me how many points we have left on the field when waters is in? Off the top of my head I think he has turned it over 3/4 times in scoring territory and that's the only stat I care about

Going by points per drive, we have left 30-31 points on the field.

with just jake or combined? And to be more clear I'm talking turnovers inside our opponents 30 or better

Waters had fumbles inside the 10 at UT and inside the 20 vs WVU. Sams also fumbled into the endzone vs WVU and had a fumble inside the 30 vs OSU.

_Fan, Sams' fumble against OSU doesn't count because TBL and TT weren't in the game against OSU.

Neither do his INT's against OSU and Baylor.  TBL and TT would have been able to come back 15 or so yards and catch those severely under thrown deep(er) passes.

I don't care what the call on the field was, it wasn't a fumble you dumb eff.

more excuses for ourguy.