Author Topic: The Future  (Read 57951 times)

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Offline chum1

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Re: The Future
« Reply #450 on: January 09, 2017, 06:20:33 PM »
They have properties independent of thought. I suppose time does, too.
Do they?

Yes. Imagine two integers that no one has ever thought of before. Do they have a sum? Of course.

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Re: The Future
« Reply #451 on: January 09, 2017, 06:22:24 PM »
Math and physics are the universal language of the universe.

Offline Spracne

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Re: The Future
« Reply #452 on: January 09, 2017, 06:23:26 PM »
Well, that's question begging. But also, your hypo proves too much (for you).

Offline chum1

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Re: The Future
« Reply #453 on: January 09, 2017, 06:42:05 PM »
Well, that's question begging. But also, your hypo proves too much (for you).

The idea that there are integers no one has thought of is meaningless to you? It makes perfect sense to me. Just as much as the idea that there are parts of the Earth no one has seen.

Offline Spracne

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Re: The Future
« Reply #454 on: January 09, 2017, 06:45:27 PM »
One exists without resort to the human mind; one doesn't. Matter matters.

Offline chum1

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Re: The Future
« Reply #455 on: January 09, 2017, 06:47:30 PM »
Sounds arbitrary.

Offline Tobias

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Re: The Future
« Reply #456 on: January 09, 2017, 06:50:07 PM »
it's not quite self driving, but i use the crap out of cruise control everywhere i go in town.  (is this legal)

Offline Spracne

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Re: The Future
« Reply #457 on: January 09, 2017, 06:54:51 PM »
Sounds arbitrary.
I think numbers are more akin to symbols, just like language itself. It is an intellectual abstraction. Your hypo definitely requires application of logic in order to prove. Numbers do not exist without intelligent life abstracting them.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: The Future
« Reply #458 on: January 09, 2017, 06:55:20 PM »
If space isn't infinite, then what do you imagine you would find at the end of it?

Such a fun question to think about. Almost makes me want to be an astrophysicist.

Offline catastrophe

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The Future
« Reply #459 on: January 09, 2017, 06:57:53 PM »
I've always considered numbers to ultimately just be a shorthand to apply logic. Pure logic exists outside of people, but I'm not convinced we know (or could know) what pure logic is.

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Re: The Future
« Reply #460 on: January 09, 2017, 06:58:48 PM »
Sounds arbitrary.
I think numbers are more akin to symbols, just like language itself. It is an intellectual abstraction. Your hypo definitely requires application of logic in order to prove. Numbers do not exist without intelligent life abstracting them.

You're splitting hairs here.  Nothing truly exists without the concept originating within intelligent life's brain.  So you can't have one without the other.

Offline Spracne

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Re: The Future
« Reply #461 on: January 09, 2017, 07:05:36 PM »


Sounds arbitrary.
I think numbers are more akin to symbols, just like language itself. It is an intellectual abstraction. Your hypo definitely requires application of logic in order to prove. Numbers do not exist without intelligent life abstracting them.

You're splitting hairs here.  Nothing truly exists without the concept originating within intelligent life's brain.  So you can't have one without the other.

The old tree falling in the forest canard? I knew that was a possible rebuttal, but honestly, I'm pretty phocking sure a tree falling in a forest still creates sound waves even if no one is around.

Or Schrodinger's cat? That puss is either alive or dead. Human knowledge doesn't change that reality.

I don't find those thought experiments very useful, tbh.

Offline star seed 7

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Re: The Future
« Reply #462 on: January 09, 2017, 07:08:11 PM »
it's not quite self driving, but i use the crap out of cruise control everywhere i go in town.  (is this legal)

Obama  :curse:
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

The Big Train

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Re: The Future
« Reply #463 on: January 09, 2017, 07:13:47 PM »


Sounds arbitrary.
I think numbers are more akin to symbols, just like language itself. It is an intellectual abstraction. Your hypo definitely requires application of logic in order to prove. Numbers do not exist without intelligent life abstracting them.

You're splitting hairs here.  Nothing truly exists without the concept originating within intelligent life's brain.  So you can't have one without the other.

The old tree falling in the forest canard? I knew that was a possible rebuttal, but honestly, I'm pretty phocking sure a tree falling in a forest still creates sound waves even if no one is around.

Or Schrodinger's cat? That puss is either alive or dead. Human knowledge doesn't change that reality.

I don't find those thought experiments very useful, tbh.

I think they are pretty cool.  Probably why I find quantum computing so fascinating.

Offline chum1

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Re: The Future
« Reply #464 on: January 09, 2017, 07:20:55 PM »
Sounds arbitrary.
I think numbers are more akin to symbols, just like language itself. It is an intellectual abstraction. Your hypo definitely requires application of logic in order to prove. Numbers do not exist without intelligent life abstracting them.

I don't see why physicality isn't a property, like the property of being able to be summed with another number.

Offline steve dave

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The Future
« Reply #465 on: January 09, 2017, 07:33:02 PM »
To a caveman automatic headlights would seem astounding. Yet here we are and everyone has them.

Offline Asteriskhead

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Re: The Future
« Reply #466 on: January 09, 2017, 07:45:12 PM »
To a caveman automatic headlights would seem astounding. Yet here we are and everyone has them.

That's a neat fantasy.

Offline Mrs. Gooch

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Re: The Future
« Reply #467 on: January 09, 2017, 08:50:39 PM »

 Imagine two integers that no one has ever thought of before.

No such thing. Name two integers that no one has ever thought of and I will prove you wrong.

Offline chum1

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Re: The Future
« Reply #468 on: January 09, 2017, 09:00:30 PM »

 Imagine two integers that no one has ever thought of before.

No such thing. Name two integers that no one has ever thought of and I will prove you wrong.

I didn't mean to think about specific numbers. I was trying to get at an idea that something could have a property of an integer independent of anyone thinking about it. Just like a patch of Earth could have properties of granite even though no one has ever seen it.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: The Future
« Reply #469 on: January 09, 2017, 10:25:03 PM »
I don't think she was being serious.

Offline Mrs. Gooch

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Re: The Future
« Reply #470 on: January 09, 2017, 11:24:13 PM »
Tap out noted. He can't even list one, much less two.

The Big Train

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Re: The Future
« Reply #471 on: January 13, 2017, 10:56:41 PM »
I'm pretty sure I posted the original thing somewhere but bad news guys :frown:

https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/12/sf-district-attorney-lawsuit-against-lily-may-have-prompted-refund/

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Re: The Future
« Reply #472 on: January 15, 2017, 08:16:22 AM »

Offline mocat

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Re: The Future
« Reply #473 on: January 15, 2017, 09:16:26 AM »
I'm pretty sure I've already posted this too but man what a tune

https://youtu.be/d-FgEyOV7bQ

Offline passranch

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