Author Topic: Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?  (Read 12664 times)

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Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« on: March 26, 2017, 10:43:07 PM »
Probably.


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Offline TheFormerKCCat

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Re: Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2017, 10:56:43 PM »
Knowing what we know now, the probability would've been pretty good. But, we would've needed some additional talent (especially a big or two). Would've been fun to watch . . .  :cry:
I'm in it purely for the entertainment value.

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Re: Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2017, 11:08:56 PM »
Knowing what we know now, the probability would've been pretty good. But, we would've needed some additional talent (especially a big or two). Would've been fun to watch . . .  :cry:
Frank could have handled/mentored Robert Upshaw

Offline Powercat Posse

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Re: Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2017, 11:30:45 PM »
Probably.

I wouldn't say probably. But would I say maybe? Yes I would.
We were good in 2013 with McGruder/Angel/Weber and would have been good with McGruder/Angel/Frank..... But FFs are hard to get to.

Offline Mixed-Nutz

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Re: Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2017, 11:39:24 PM »
Probably.

I wouldn't say probably. But would I say maybe? Yes I would.
We were good in 2013 with McGruder/Angel/Weber and would have been good with McGruder/Angel/Frank..... But FFs are hard to get to.

Returned roughly 62% - Sprads from the 23th ranked kenpom team. Probably would not have won the big 12 because Weber was outrageously fortunate in close games. But should have been his 2nd best team ever and been favored in an elite 8 game. The team would have also probably been a points better than Weber's team.

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2017, 01:35:28 AM »
I think him being let go and then suspended at another job for his temper is what made him go from a very good coachto a great coach. That said, he built a program from nothing there, and would not have had to do that if he had stayed here. So maybe.

Offline SdK

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Re: Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2017, 02:00:50 AM »
No. The move to SC and his being told to settle down took Frank from a good to great coach. I wish that would have taken place at KSU, but I don't think it was going to happen. I hope Frank achieves all he desires. To think that all his current and future achievements would have happened at KSU is a farse. He needed a reset and to learn some lessons. He has and it is paying dividends and will continue to do so.

One can only hope that KSU can make a great next hire to take us back to where Frank left us off at and push the bar higher.

God bless Frank and may KSU be blessed once again.

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Re: Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2017, 07:49:26 AM »
no, i don't think so



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Re: Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2017, 08:08:13 AM »
I think him being let go and then suspended at another job for his temper is what made him go from a very good coachto a great coach. That said, he built a program from nothing there, and would not have had to do that if he had stayed here. So maybe.
FWIW, I don't his temper has changed much.

Offline Tobias

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Re: Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2017, 08:24:24 AM »
it's a coping mechanism

Offline ksupamplemousse

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Re: Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2017, 09:26:05 AM »
So, the talking point about Frank changing at SC is correct but pointless. A competent AD (like apparently the one at SC) would be capable of working with their coach to modify a coach's less savory behavior. This could very well have happened at K-State had K-State not had an insane person as their AD.
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Re: Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2017, 09:55:51 AM »
not trying to take anything away from frank but i'm not sure how much coaching had to do with usc shooting +20% higher through the tournament than their season average

there are a lot of factors that go into getting to the final four and each team's path is different


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Offline Steffy08

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Re: Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2017, 10:04:02 AM »
not trying to take anything away from frank but i'm not sure how much coaching had to do with usc shooting +20% higher through the tournament than their season average

there are a lot of factors that go into getting to the final four and each team's path is different

This.  Frank is a quality coach--no doubt--but this run involves a little luck.  Props to Frank for getting his team in this position, and I do think his teams have a certain toughness that helps in the tourney, but the reality is that this South Carolina team was just slightly better than the team we had this year.

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Re: Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2017, 10:05:36 AM »
not trying to take anything away from frank but i'm not sure how much coaching had to do with usc shooting +20% higher through the tournament than their season average

there are a lot of factors that go into getting to the final four and each team's path is different

This.  Frank is a quality coach--no doubt--but this run involves a little luck.  Props to Frank for getting his team in this position, and I do think his teams have a certain toughness that helps in the tourney, but the reality is that this South Carolina team was just slightly better than the team we had this year.

A few bounces here or there...

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2017, 10:11:34 AM »
True.

Frank had a little luck and shocked the world by going to the Final 4.

Our guys had a little luck and shocked the world by finishing 6th when picked 9th and made the First 4.

Those things are almost identical achievements.

Offline ChiComCat

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Re: Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2017, 10:16:37 AM »
In a single elimination tournament there will always be some luck, but South Carolina beat two teams in the tournament by 20 and won even their closest games by 3 possessions.  This South Carolina team is considerably better than the team we have this year.  We couldn't play two consecutive games at the level that they've played four.

Offline pvegs

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Re: Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2017, 10:19:49 AM »
In a single elimination tournament there will always be some luck, but South Carolina beat two teams in the tournament by 20 and won even their closest games by 3 possessions.  This South Carolina team is considerably better than the team we have this year.  We couldn't play two consecutive games at the level that they've played four.

yeah this. good pts chicat

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Re: Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2017, 10:20:48 AM »
Frank had them in the elite eight at KSU and had the bad luck of playing a team with an incredibly elite coach with an NBA all-star. A team with Angel as an upperclassman would have been of a similar quality to that team. (Probably twice).

Offline catastrophe

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Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2017, 10:25:10 AM »
So, the talking point about Frank changing at SC is correct but pointless. A competent AD (like apparently the one at SC) would be capable of working with their coach to modify a coach's less savory behavior. This could very well have happened at K-State had K-State not had an insane person as their AD.

I think the prospect of getting let go as a head BBall coach at SC is a lot more sobering than at KSU.

I believe Frank has improved as a coach and a person, which is great for him and SC. The only reason people around here have trouble appreciating that is because we don't have a better coach at the moment.

Offline catastrophe

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Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2017, 10:29:49 AM »
Also, right now I can't help thinking how many folks on this board a few weeks ago were saying it shouldn't matter whether oscar made the tournament or even won a few games this year because how a coach does in conference is a better indicator of their abilities than winning a few NCAA games.

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Re: Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2017, 10:35:53 AM »
In a single elimination tournament there will always be some luck, but South Carolina beat two teams in the tournament by 20 and won even their closest games by 3 possessions.  This South Carolina team is considerably better than the team we have this year.  We couldn't play two consecutive games at the level that they've played four.

this south carolina team is playing much better now than they did in the regular season when they lost 10 games.  not that it matters but the two teams were very comparable during the regular season. 

what you have in south carolina is a team that plays great team defense, has a good team make up, has an unstoppable stud named sindarius thornwell, and has had the ball bounce their way in the tournament

that said, i'm really not sure why anyone is comparing a final four team to k-state because it's a dumb comparison to make


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Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2017, 10:38:16 AM »
Also, right now I can't help thinking how many folks on this board a few weeks ago were saying it shouldn't matter whether oscar made the tournament or even won a few games this year because how a coach does in conference is a better indicator of their abilities than winning a few NCAA games.

If oscar had made a run to the 2nd weekend some people would've looked at him more favorably. But he didn't come close to that, and his Big 12 record speaks for itself.

Granted, Frank moving past his Elite 8 accomplishment here and to the Final 4 makes the reactions more extreme, but K-State hasn't been to a Final 4 since the 60s, so it makes more sense. I mean, to have any real memories of K-State in the Final 4 you are at least 65 years old.

Offline #LIFE

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Re: Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2017, 10:43:48 AM »
Also, right now I can't help thinking how many folks on this board a few weeks ago were saying it shouldn't matter whether oscar made the tournament or even won a few games this year because how a coach does in conference is a better indicator of their abilities than winning a few NCAA games.

I guess if you want to overlook Franks F4 run and call it luck here's what he's done in conference since arriving at SC.

4-14
5-13
6-12
11-7
12-6

Looks like an upward tick to me  :dunno:

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Re: Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2017, 10:47:27 AM »


Also, right now I can't help thinking how many folks on this board a few weeks ago were saying it shouldn't matter whether oscar made the tournament or even won a few games this year because how a coach does in conference is a better indicator of their abilities than winning a few NCAA games.

I still think that. I also think Frank would have gotten a Final Four if he had been able to stay at KSU.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Would Frank and Angel have gone to a Final Four together?
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2017, 11:29:34 AM »
I will also say this: there is no reason to think he's going to stay at SC much longer, and we didn't have a great reason to think he would stay in Manhattan this long even with a good working AD relationship.

This is coming from someone who would love to bring Frank back, but I'd also be just as happy appreciating what Frank has done and picking up a new stud coach for ourselves.