Israel - Hamas peace process

[michigancat]

Never understood what the Palestinians beef with Israel is.

This should sum it up...

http://youtu.be/8EDW88CBo-8

well that seems a little biased

[Emo EMAW]

Never understood what the Palestinians beef with Israel is.

This should sum it up...

http://youtu.be/8EDW88CBo-8

well that seems a little biased

Factual, tho.

[michigancat]

Never understood what the Palestinians beef with Israel is.

This should sum it up...

http://youtu.be/8EDW88CBo-8

well that seems a little biased

Factual, tho.

eh, it kind of glosses over a lot.

Here's an alternative: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html

[Emo EMAW]

Never understood what the Palestinians beef with Israel is.

This should sum it up...

http://youtu.be/8EDW88CBo-8

well that seems a little biased

Factual, tho.

eh, it kind of glosses over a lot.

Here's an alternative: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html

An alternatively biased perspective?  Sure.

[michigancat]

definitely, but it at least provided more background

[Emo EMAW]

Worse graphics, though.

[Emo EMAW]

One thing that both links seem to gloss over, is how much more pleasant the Jews are as a people than the Arabs.  They are obviously much more intelligent, organized, and economically viable for the long term. 

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

My history is a little hazy, but didn't the Israelis voluntary evict themselves from Gaza about a decade ago? I think they made all the settlers leave, left thousands of greenhouses in place for the palestinians, and gave them millions in aid? And then the palestinians tore down the greenhouses, built a massive tunnel network, and started firing rockets at Israel? That happened, right?

[Kat Kid]

My history is a little hazy, but didn't the Israelis voluntary evict themselves from Gaza about a decade ago? I think they made all the settlers leave, left thousands of greenhouses in place for the palestinians, and gave them millions in aid? And then the palestinians tore down the greenhouses, built a massive tunnel network, and started firing rockets at Israel? That happened, right?

Yep sounds like you have a solid grasp on all he ins and outs of life in Gaza.  Greenhouses and millions in aid for all.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Never understood what the Palestinians beef with Israel is.

This should sum it up...

http://youtu.be/8EDW88CBo-8

well that seems a little biased

The one part you can't deny is that peace would be achieved if the Palestinians, Hamas, and surrounding countries simply stopped fighting against Israel.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

My history is a little hazy, but didn't the Israelis voluntary evict themselves from Gaza about a decade ago? I think they made all the settlers leave, left thousands of greenhouses in place for the palestinians, and gave them millions in aid? And then the palestinians tore down the greenhouses, built a massive tunnel network, and started firing rockets at Israel? That happened, right?

Yep sounds like you have a solid grasp on all he ins and outs of life in Gaza.  Greenhouses and millions in aid for all.

Well, now I had to go look it up. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/9331863/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/looters-strip-gaza-greenhouses/

NEVE DEKALIM, Gaza Strip — Palestinians looted dozens of greenhouses on Tuesday, walking off with irrigation hoses, water pumps and plastic sheeting in a blow to fledgling efforts to reconstruct the Gaza Strip.

American Jewish donors had bought more than 3,000 greenhouses from Israeli settlers in Gaza for $14 million last month and transferred them to the Palestinian Authority. Former World Bank President James Wolfensohn, who brokered the deal, put up $500,000 of his own cash.
 
Palestinian police stood by helplessly Tuesday as looters carted off materials from greenhouses in several settlements, and commanders complained they did not have enough manpower to protect the prized assets. In some instances, there was no security and in others, police even joined the looters, witnesses said.
 
“We need at least another 70 soldiers. This is just a joke,” said Taysir Haddad, one of 22 security guards assigned to Neve Dekalim, formerly the largest Jewish settlement in Gaza. “We’ve tried to stop as many people as we can, but they’re like locusts.”
 
The failure of the security forces to prevent scavenging and looting in the settlements after Israel’s troop pullout Monday raised new concerns about Gaza’s future.
 
Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas told his people in a televised speech Tuesday that he would take immediate steps to impose order. “We have one law for everyone and no one is above the law. We are not going to tolerate chaos after today,” he said.
 
The Palestinian leader is under intense pressure from his people and the international community to stop the growing lawlessness in Gaza, where rival militant groups are jockeying for power. As Abbas spoke, hundreds of masked Hamas gunmen wielding rifles and grenade launchers paraded through the streets of a nearby refugee camp.
 
The greenhouses are a centerpiece of Palestinian plans for rebuilding Gaza after 38 years of Israeli occupation. The Palestinian Authority hopes the high-tech greenhouses left by the Israelis will provide jobs and export income for Gaza’s shattered economy.

Seems like the Israelis bent over backwards to prop up the palestinians in Gaza, and in return the paestinians just kept doing what they do.

[michigancat]

Never understood what the Palestinians beef with Israel is.

This should sum it up...

http://youtu.be/8EDW88CBo-8

well that seems a little biased

The one part you can't deny is that peace would be achieved if the Palestinians, Hamas, and surrounding countries simply stopped fighting against Israel.

Eh, I don't think that's as much as a given as that guy in the video makes it seem.

[Emo EMAW]

Never understood what the Palestinians beef with Israel is.

This should sum it up...

http://youtu.be/8EDW88CBo-8

well that seems a little biased

The one part you can't deny is that peace would be achieved if the Palestinians, Hamas, and surrounding countries simply stopped fighting against Israel.

Eh, I don't think that's as much as a given as that guy in the video makes it seem.

I think it's worth a shot? 

[michigancat]

Never understood what the Palestinians beef with Israel is.

This should sum it up...

http://youtu.be/8EDW88CBo-8

well that seems a little biased

The one part you can't deny is that peace would be achieved if the Palestinians, Hamas, and surrounding countries simply stopped fighting against Israel.

Eh, I don't think that's as much as a given as that guy in the video makes it seem.

I think it's worth a shot? 

sure, will Israel also give all their land back to the Palestinians they kicked out?

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Never understood what the Palestinians beef with Israel is.

This should sum it up...

http://youtu.be/8EDW88CBo-8

well that seems a little biased

The one part you can't deny is that peace would be achieved if the Palestinians, Hamas, and surrounding countries simply stopped fighting against Israel.

Eh, I don't think that's as much as a given as that guy in the video makes it seem.

I think it's worth a shot? 

sure, will Israel also give all their land back to the Palestinians they kicked out?

They already did that with Gaza, plus money, too. How's that working out?

[michigancat]

yeah israel really set gaza up for success. They give and give and give.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

The only reason Israel keeps pushing the borders back is to get Hamas out of missile range. Longer range missiles means they have to push them back further.

[Emo EMAW]

Liberals love to talk about viability when it comes to unborn fetuses, but terrorist states are off limits.

Sent using Tapatalk Elite on iPhone 6

[michigancat]

Liberals love to talk about viability when it comes to unborn fetuses, but terrorist states are off limits.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

yeah israel really set gaza up for success. They give and give and give.

So now it's the Israelis' fault because they didn't do enough? They gave the palestinians millions in aid, complete control of the Gaza strip, thousands of greenhouses, and in response the palestinians promptly looted the greenhouses, elected a terrorist government, and started lobbing rockets into Israel. I know there are supposedly two sides to every story, but this seems like a pretty open and shut case. These people are crazy. Nothing less than the total destruction of Israel will placate them, and even if they succeeded, they'd still be no more advanced or prosperous than they are now.

[Kat Kid]

If only Gaza had accepted the greenhouses, all of this could have been avoided.

[Kat Kid]

yeah israel really set gaza up for success. They give and give and give.

So now it's the Israelis' fault because they didn't do enough? They gave the palestinians millions in aid, complete control of the Gaza strip, thousands of greenhouses, and in response the palestinians promptly looted the greenhouses, elected a terrorist government, and started lobbing rockets into Israel. I know there are supposedly two sides to every story, but this seems like a pretty open and shut case. These people are crazy. Nothing less than the total destruction of Israel will placate them, and even if they succeeded, they'd still be no more advanced or prosperous than they are now.

Complete control of Gaza except for the air, water, border, Mediterranean Sea access, tax revenues and transfer payments from the West Bank etc.

[DQ12]

Yep.  The isreali-palestinian conflict.  An open-shut case if there ever was one.

[Kat Kid]

I can't believe KSUW's greenhouse theory has not been replaced by this compelling thesis forwarded by NYU Professor of Law Thane Rosenbaum.  Sure it is completely insane, but at least it has a bit more upside and charm!

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.605297

Gaza chose terrorism over building a Palestinian paradise
Unoccupied for nearly a decade, why do Gaza’s people know little else aside from explosives and martyrdom?
......
Nothing was inevitable. With Israel’s withdrawal there was a blank slate of possibilities. Today people speak of Israel’s naval blockade and restrictive border crossings (now imposed by Egypt, too) as reasons for why Gaza did not have a free hand in charting its future. But such restrictions on the flow of people and raw materials took place only once it became clear that for Hamas borders and ports are arteries for rockets, artillery, and the kidnapping of soldiers. If the Gazans had spent the last ten years importing equipment with which to build a new nation, there never would have been an Israeli blockade.

While we’re dreaming, it’s important to remember that Gaza is a beachside enclave right on the Mediterranean. For decades it has been an armpit of rubble and dust, but it had the potential to be the harbinger of a Palestinian paradise. If Hamas, fresh from its electoral victory over Fatah, had called up casino magnate Sheldon Adelson, as right-wing a supporter of Israel as there is, and suggested a partnership in casinos all along the strip, rather than firing rockets at civilians and martyring their own, Hamas would have been busy booking Tony Bennett and Britney Spears to headline its hotels for Christmas.

Instead of resorting to terror they could have just hosted resorts. Imagine, no sounds of bombs bursting, just whirring slot machines; craps tables instead of a wasteland that looks like crap. (The Native Indian-Americans extracted similar concessions from the United States, without launching rockets. And they never had beachfront property!)
......

[michigancat]

Wow.

Love the closing line about Native Americans never having beachfront property.