The crisis of middle-class America

[MakeItRain]

The one thing I am taking away from this post is that I would like a $70,000 salary right now please.

Trust me these idiots and their mortgage calculators don't know what the shazbot! they are talking about.  First of all the family makes $70,000, they don't take home nearly that.  Sugar Dick not surprisingly used tarded math.  $70,000 is $5800/month before taxes.  If the man took home $70,000 he would have said he made $85,000.  Again that kind of math was one of the reasons for the housing crisis.  Sugar Dick doesn't own a house he has no clue as to what "comfortable" means.

For the most part, I agree with MIR.  If by chance someone does take home $70000/yr or 5800/month, their house payment should be no more than $1500/month.  That means no more than a $150,000 house.

Too many people want to spend more than 25% of their monthly income on a house and they end up house poor.  Add in a $400 car payment and there's a recipe for trouble, especially if the income goes down.

CALIFORNIA WOULD BE EMPTY

income to debt ratios in areas with high cost of living is tragic

[chum1]

People can spend their money however they want, you fascists.  And plenty spend a lot of it on a house.  If they don't default, what do you care?

[Jeffy]

People can spend their money however they want, you fascists.  And plenty spend a lot of it on a house.  If they don't default, what do you care?

You're right.  They can.  And I shouldn't be forced to pay for their stupidity.  So since I have to pay for it, I care.

[Sugar Dick]

The one thing I am taking away from this post is that I would like a $70,000 salary right now please.

Trust me these idiots and their mortgage calculators don't know what the shazbot! they are talking about.  First of all the family makes $70,000, they don't take home nearly that.  Sugar Dick not surprisingly used tarded math.  $70,000 is $5800/month before taxes.  If the man took home $70,000 he would have said he made $85,000.  Again that kind of math was one of the reasons for the housing crisis.  Sugar Dick doesn't own a house he has no clue as to what "comfortable" means.

Face it dude, you're wrong and you got busted.  I know those hokie mortgage calculators don't agree with your point, but that's how much a house costs whether you like it or not.

FYI - I own my own house, and live comfortably.

[06wildcat]

$70,000 is much more than enough to buy a $250,000 home as long as Obama doesn't shazbot! with the mortgage interest deduction.

Are you stupid or just Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)? Let's assume that this family only consists of 2 people needing qualifying deductions of more than $11,400, this is the standard deduction for married couples filing jointly.

Now we'll assume this couple put 10 percent down ($25,000) and doesn't have much else in the way of debt. Let's see how much that deduction is really worth. A 30-year note at 5.5 percent would be $1,277.53 for P and I, with I running about $1,030 per month or $12,360 per year. Let's say they pay another $100 per month in PMI for an additional $1,200 and have another $3,000 in state income taxes and another $3,000 in property taxes. So by owning a house they get a new deduction of $19,560. Or they've essentially lowered their taxable income by about $8,000 so they've saved a grand total of about 1 mortgage payments. Because it's a deduction, you're only "saving" those deductions at whatever your tax rate is.

This couple basically got a discount of $1,200 by spending that $19,560 since their gross income was $70k they would have been in the 15 percent bracket with the standard deduction already, meaning they only "saved" 15 percent of the extra $8,000.

And if that couple plans to live in the house for any length of time, it's highly likely that their deductions won't be enough to outpace the standard deduction since that generally rises with inflation and the amount of interest they are paying is being reduced with each payment.

The mortgage interest deduction is one of the worst ideas ever dreamed up. It doesn't promote home ownership, it promotes people taking on more debt. You want to really stabilize housing prices? Allow people to save money tax free for a down payment of 20 to 25 percent. That's a much more fiscally conservative way to treat housing and if those hefty down payments were required, it would almost eliminate future real estate bubbles.

[MakeItRain]

The one thing I am taking away from this post is that I would like a $70,000 salary right now please.

Trust me these idiots and their mortgage calculators don't know what the shazbot! they are talking about.  First of all the family makes $70,000, they don't take home nearly that.  Sugar Dick not surprisingly used tarded math.  $70,000 is $5800/month before taxes.  If the man took home $70,000 he would have said he made $85,000.  Again that kind of math was one of the reasons for the housing crisis.  Sugar Dick doesn't own a house he has no clue as to what "comfortable" means.

Face it dude, you're wrong and you got busted.  I know those hokie mortgage calculators don't agree with your point, but that's how much a house costs whether you like it or not.

FYI - I own my own house, and live comfortably.

Do you comprehend the conversation here?  The point you made was never doubted.  I never once said that you cannot buy a $250,000 with a salary of $70,000.  The point was that you should not buy a house for that price with that income, and you definitely can't do it "comfortably" as you stated.  Taking out a mortgage does not absolve you from other financial obligations.  I have made that point more than once, I'm not going to make it again because you are too stupid to comprehend the conversation you started.

[chum1]

Don't tell people what they should spend their money on.  eff you, fascists.

[mortons toe]

Don't tell people what they should spend their money on.  shazbot! you, fascists.

since chum likes to call everybody fascists, I'll provide this piece...

[Sugar Dick]

The one thing I am taking away from this post is that I would like a $70,000 salary right now please.

Trust me these idiots and their mortgage calculators don't know what the shazbot! they are talking about.  First of all the family makes $70,000, they don't take home nearly that.  Sugar Dick not surprisingly used tarded math.  $70,000 is $5800/month before taxes.  If the man took home $70,000 he would have said he made $85,000.  Again that kind of math was one of the reasons for the housing crisis.  Sugar Dick doesn't own a house he has no clue as to what "comfortable" means.

Face it dude, you're wrong and you got busted.  I know those hokie mortgage calculators don't agree with your point, but that's how much a house costs whether you like it or not.

FYI - I own my own house, and live comfortably.

Do you comprehend the conversation here?  The point you made was never doubted.  I never once said that you cannot buy a $250,000 with a salary of $70,000.  The point was that you should not buy a house for that price with that income, and you definitely can't do it "comfortably" as you stated.  Taking out a mortgage does not absolve you from other financial obligations.  I have made that point more than once, I'm not going to make it again because you are too stupid to comprehend the conversation you started.

What percentage of gross income would be a "comfortable" mortgage payment?  The 25% "rule of thumb" I gave you, is very conservative and puts you in a home comfortably, and I know that for a fact.  Yet you say that's not reality, nor is it comfortable.  You also claim that, "that sort of thinking" caused the mortgage crisis.  Anyone that works in banking or finance (like Sugar Dick does) knows that you are wrong.  In fact many financial institutions will still go 38% DTI (total installment debt, not just house) which is considered a very conservative U/W practice.

So, since you're really smart (David Spade voice), what is the magic number to "live comfortable"? 

Let me offer a suggestion, a sort of "rule of thumb".  If you don't know what you're talking about, don't post.  MichiganCat had troubles with this, and eventually quit posting over here.  I suggest you learn your lesson and do the same.

[06wildcat]

Sugar, I know that 25 to 28 percent of gross income has been the standard for underwriting for a long time. If all home buyers are rational, it's a pretty effective way to gauge where one's price point needs to be when looking for a house. The problem is most home buyers aren't rational at all. They push right up to the max they can borrow, put very little money down and a good portion of the time have no savings after buying the home to fix anything that breaks.

[Sugar Dick]

Sugar, I know that 25 to 28 percent of gross income has been the standard for underwriting for a long time. If all home buyers are rational, it's a pretty effective way to gauge where one's price point needs to be when looking for a house. The problem is most home buyers aren't rational at all. They push right up to the max they can borrow, put very little money down and a good portion of the time have no savings after buying the home to fix anything that breaks.

06,

Water is wet.

[Dugout DickStone]

SD sells mortgages?