Author Topic: Econ 101: The Problem with Greece  (Read 2312 times)

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Offline Jeffy

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Econ 101: The Problem with Greece
« on: May 06, 2010, 11:14:05 PM »
http://www.businessandmedia.org/commentary/2010/20100505135805.aspx

-snip-
The Greek problem has been a long time coming. In order to join the Euro zone countries were to keep their deficits to no more than 3 percent of GDP. Greece has managed to more than quadruple that. The country already has a top income tax rate of 40 percent, and a value-added tax of 21 percent.

In addition, employers pay 28 percent of salary for social security and employees pay 16 percent. These high tax rates have led to a culture of tax evasion, with the government struggling to collect the revenues due it. The high tax rates also lead to a reduction in economic growth. Indeed part of debt problem of Greece is that its GDP is estimated to shrink by 5 percent in 2010, according to Economist Intelligence Unit Forecast.
-snip


-snip-
The lesson to be learned from this is that government spending on social services and a large public employee sector inevitably lead to problems. The right solution to the Greek problem is to reduce government spending, reduce taxes, and reduce government regulation of labor markets in order to become competitive in a global economy, and let the market move labor out of the public sector to industries that are sustainable.

Unfortunately, this will be very difficult to do politically, especially for a Socialist government. The IMF and EU conditions are likely to provoke strikes that will further hamper the economy. Already there have been protests in Greece against government spending cuts.

The U.S., with its publicly held debt of 70 percent of GDP and unfunded liabilities in Social Security and Medicare in excess of $100 trillion, according to the National Center for Policy Analysis, should take note and reign in the growth of the federal government before it too ends up in the headlines as the next sovereign debt default candidate.
-snip-


Congressman Paul discusses the situation that he and many other experts have seen coming for a long time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPMI4hSMygM&feature=player_embedded#!


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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Econ 101: The Problem with Greece
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2010, 07:44:49 AM »
What sector of the U.S. economy has seen significant job growth??

Sugar Dick

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Re: Econ 101: The Problem with Greece
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2010, 08:19:59 AM »
What sector of the U.S. economy has seen significant job growth??


Answer:  Census and Federal Govt payrolls


The whole debacle in Greece is the 800lb.



our politicians are begging us to ignore.

We can't afford what we're committed to and it will come to a terrible, terrible, end if things don't change radically.  Adding people to the government teet only adds to the crowd of idiotic rioters years down the road.


Offline Jeffy

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Re: Econ 101: The Problem with Greece
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2010, 08:36:00 AM »
So now Greece is being bailed out by $1T of France's and Germany's money.



And we are providing a credit line.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100510/ap_on_bi_ge/us_europe_financial_crisis_fed;_ylt=Aqt8gN4_oJxIHk8IK3XaYPJH2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTNqcmkwcDcyBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwNTEwL3VzX2V1cm9wZV9maW5hbmNpYWxfY3Jpc2lzX2ZlZARjY29kZQNtb3N0cG9wdWxhcgRjcG9zAzQEcG9zAzQEc2VjA3luX3Rvc

The IMF believes the situation from Greece will spill over across the Atlantic by 2013.

Anyone believe it can't happen here?


I'm sure KK will respond with some sporadic torture thread and the rest of the Neros on here will sit around with one thumb up their collective butts.


Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Econ 101: The Problem with Greece
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2010, 09:17:40 AM »
If Germany would've approved a bailout sooner, or brought in the IMF immediately, then it would not have been nearly as expensive.  Greece certainly has a whole host of issues (along with many of the other anti-immigration, aging, pension states of Europe), the fact that their problems will have some influence upon our economy is duly noted.

Greece is at 140% debt/GDP, we are at 80% with an overwhelming advantage in the fundamentals.  There is little doubt that defense and entitlements must be cut/means tested/raise the retirement age etc.   But no one is dealing with these issues, they are screaming about "bailouts" and "pork" and other nonsense.  I'm a little more confident in the United States dollar than any of you seem to be.

What do you think will happen in 2013?

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Econ 101: The Problem with Greece
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2010, 12:15:20 PM »
The world ends in 2012 . . . party like a rock/rap star.


Sugar Dick

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Re: Econ 101: The Problem with Greece
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2010, 02:07:34 PM »
If Germany would've approved a bailout sooner, or brought in the IMF immediately, then it would not have been nearly as expensive.  Greece certainly has a whole host of issues (along with many of the other anti-immigration, aging, pension states of Europe), the fact that their problems will have some influence upon our economy is duly noted.

Greece is at 140% debt/GDP, we are at 80% with an overwhelming advantage in the fundamentals.  There is little doubt that defense and entitlements must be cut/means tested/raise the retirement age etc.   But no one is dealing with these issues, they are screaming about "bailouts" and "pork" and other nonsense.  I'm a little more confident in the United States dollar than any of you seem to be.

What do you think will happen in 2013?

Defense is nothing compared to entitlements financially speaking.  Don't lump them together it just makes you look more lib than you want.

Somebody is doing something about entitlements.  His name is Obama and his expanding the current ones and creating new ones.   :facepalm:

Offline sys

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Re: Econ 101: The Problem with Greece
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2010, 02:26:31 PM »
Defense is nothing compared to entitlements financially speaking.  Don't lump them together.

about 4% gdp vs about 8% gdp.  they're broadly comparable, and certainly both have to be discussed in any cost cutting convo.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Econ 101: The Problem with Greece
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2010, 03:20:05 PM »
If Germany would've approved a bailout sooner, or brought in the IMF immediately, then it would not have been nearly as expensive.  Greece certainly has a whole host of issues (along with many of the other anti-immigration, aging, pension states of Europe), the fact that their problems will have some influence upon our economy is duly noted.

Greece is at 140% debt/GDP, we are at 80% with an overwhelming advantage in the fundamentals.  There is little doubt that defense and entitlements must be cut/means tested/raise the retirement age etc.   But no one is dealing with these issues, they are screaming about "bailouts" and "pork" and other nonsense.  I'm a little more confident in the United States dollar than any of you seem to be.

What do you think will happen in 2013?

Defense is nothing compared to entitlements financially speaking.  Don't lump them together it just makes you look more lib than you want.

Somebody is doing something about entitlements.  His name is Obama and his expanding the current ones and creating new ones.   :facepalm:


Obama, Democratic Congressional leadership and the CBO say that Health Care will save money in Medicare long-term and serve as a model to dismantle many of the inefficiencies in the market that have lead to increasing Medicare pricing.  You can agree with this or disagree with whether there will be cost savings, but the fundamentals were considered extensively.  There were even quite public debates about this.

Online john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Econ 101: The Problem with Greece
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2010, 04:04:24 PM »
If Germany would've approved a bailout sooner, or brought in the IMF immediately, then it would not have been nearly as expensive.  Greece certainly has a whole host of issues (along with many of the other anti-immigration, aging, pension states of Europe), the fact that their problems will have some influence upon our economy is duly noted.

Greece is at 140% debt/GDP, we are at 80% with an overwhelming advantage in the fundamentals.  There is little doubt that defense and entitlements must be cut/means tested/raise the retirement age etc.   But no one is dealing with these issues, they are screaming about "bailouts" and "pork" and other nonsense.  I'm a little more confident in the United States dollar than any of you seem to be.

What do you think will happen in 2013?

Defense is nothing compared to entitlements financially speaking.  Don't lump them together it just makes you look more lib than you want.

Somebody is doing something about entitlements.  His name is Obama and his expanding the current ones and creating new ones.   :facepalm:


Obama, Democratic Congressional leadership and the CBO say that Health Care will save money in Medicare long-term and serve as a model to dismantle many of the inefficiencies in the market that have lead to increasing Medicare pricing.  You can agree with this or disagree with whether there will be cost savings, but the fundamentals were considered extensively.  There were even quite public debates about this.

The CBO has to use the figures given to them by the congress. $500 billion worth of Medicare cuts were included in the bill, and we all know that will never happen. There will be no savings. Crap in = crap out according to the CBO.

Sugar Dick

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Re: Econ 101: The Problem with Greece
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2010, 04:15:44 PM »
If Germany would've approved a bailout sooner, or brought in the IMF immediately, then it would not have been nearly as expensive.  Greece certainly has a whole host of issues (along with many of the other anti-immigration, aging, pension states of Europe), the fact that their problems will have some influence upon our economy is duly noted.

Greece is at 140% debt/GDP, we are at 80% with an overwhelming advantage in the fundamentals.  There is little doubt that defense and entitlements must be cut/means tested/raise the retirement age etc.   But no one is dealing with these issues, they are screaming about "bailouts" and "pork" and other nonsense.  I'm a little more confident in the United States dollar than any of you seem to be.

What do you think will happen in 2013?

Defense is nothing compared to entitlements financially speaking.  Don't lump them together it just makes you look more lib than you want.

Somebody is doing something about entitlements.  His name is Obama and his expanding the current ones and creating new ones.   :facepalm:


Obama, Democratic Congressional leadership and the CBO say that Health Care will save money in Medicare long-term and serve as a model to dismantle many of the inefficiencies in the market that have lead to increasing Medicare pricing.  You can agree with this or disagree with whether there will be cost savings, but the fundamentals were considered extensively.  There were even quite public debates about this.

Somebody somewhere probably said the same thing about Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid.  You're f*cking delusional if you think a government agency will save money anywhere.

How would the government even know if it did.  It's not like the government has any reporting requirements like the private sector.  Do you ever hear the government trumpeting about how efficient or how successful a program is?  No, it's the only entity where having a nice thought is good enough to spend an ungodly amount of money at an unchecked rate.

I would love to hear one example of an inefficiency the "Healthcare Overhaul" has in it that saves money.   :pray:

Offline Jeffy

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Re: Econ 101: The Problem with Greece
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2010, 10:41:35 PM »
   

US RATING AGENCIES: A FORMIDABLE WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION

The debt is like a crazy aunt we keep down in the basement. All the neighbors know she´s there, but nobody wants to talk about her.
~ H. Ross Perot

Dear Mountaineers,

This week, European policy makers unveiled an unprecedented loan package and a program of bond purchases as they spear-headed a global drive to stop the sovereign-debt crisis that had threatened to shatter confidence in the euro. Jolted into action by last week´s slide in the euro and the soaring bond yields in Portugal and Spain, the 16 Euro nations agreed to offer financial assistance worth as much as 750 billion euros (US$ 962 billion).

The European Central Bank now appears officially and irrevocably devoted to counter ‘severe tensions in certain markets´ by purchasing government and private debt. This is where the borders between socialism and communism become extremely blurry. This package was created on the backs of taxpayers, on the basis of more debt, more deficits, more "easy money" and a lot more big brother.

Clearly, these measures will not solve the actual problems. These measures are not about solving problems, but merely about buying time. Admittedly, this ‘grand plan´ has provided for a nice lift in global financial markets after one of the worst single-day corrections in global stock markets last week. However, these measures provide no sustainable improvement.

Furthermore, it has become very apparent and visible for all to see -- if they only looked hard enough -- that the current state of relief is in the hands of American rating agencies. I promised to comment on this aspect of the current Greek debt crisis in last week´s Update. And so I will.

First of all, keep your eyes on the pea!!

More here- http://www.bfi-capital.com/mountainvision/newsletter.php?view=093f65e080