Syria getting syrious

[bones129]

Syria does not have the syrianess to match up with us. Bring it on.

[felix rex]

But if the US stopped all financial, military and political support of Israel today there would not be an Israel 10 years from now.

When people say stuff like this, I can never tell if they're for or against supporting Israel.

[Shacks]

But if the US stopped all financial, military and political support of Israel today there would not be an Israel 10 years from now.

When people say stuff like this, I can never tell if they're for or against supporting Israel.

I'm against supporting Israel (and most other countries for that matter).  They have been around long enough to stand on their own two feet.  They don't need Uncle Sam propping them up any longer.  I wouldn't be terribly upset if the US went extremely isolationist and stopped all foreign intervention/support unless there was a direct threat to US soil (and by that I mean the 50 states, not the vague "US interests").  Keep a handful of bases in strategic locations in countries we are friendly with in case crap hits the fan and send the remainder of our military home.  Let the rest of the world fight their own fights and let them determine the outcome, so long as America isn't threatened.  Forcing democracy in areas that aren't used to it is a horrible idea, people won't appreciate or want the same type of government we have unless they are willing to fight and die for it.

Israel was placed in a horrible location.  As long as it exists there will be big problems in the Middle East and as long as we support them a lot of countries that are hotbeds for producing terrorists are going to hate us.  A Jewish nation should have been placed in Germany or Italy - they lost WWII and wouldn't have been able to do a damn thing about having to surrender some of their land.  I understand there were religious motives in Israel's placement, but long-term safety and stability should have taken priority.  Perpetual warfare should have been an easily foreseeable outcome when Palestine was displaced for Israel and a Jewish nation was plopped down in the middle of a lot of Muslim countries.  If we stopped supporting Israel and they managed to survive on their own, good for them.  If not...oh well, it wouldn't be the first country to be conquered.  Not meddling in affairs on the other side of the globe that have nothing to do with us would do a lot to reduce the risk of foreign terrorist attacks against the US, and at some point that should be the primary concern over playing world police.

[Emo EMAW]

But if the US stopped all financial, military and political support of Israel today there would not be an Israel 10 years from now.

When people say stuff like this, I can never tell if they're for or against supporting Israel.

I'm against supporting Israel (and most other countries for that matter).  They have been around long enough to stand on their own two feet.  They don't need Uncle Sam propping them up any longer.  I wouldn't be terribly upset if the US went extremely isolationist and stopped all foreign intervention/support unless there was a direct threat to US soil (and by that I mean the 50 states, not the vague "US interests").  Keep a handful of bases in strategic locations in countries we are friendly with in case crap hits the fan and send the remainder of our military home.  Let the rest of the world fight their own fights and let them determine the outcome, so long as America isn't threatened.  Forcing democracy in areas that aren't used to it is a horrible idea, people won't appreciate or want the same type of government we have unless they are willing to fight and die for it.

Israel was placed in a horrible location.  As long as it exists there will be big problems in the Middle East and as long as we support them a lot of countries that are hotbeds for producing terrorists are going to hate us.  A Jewish nation should have been placed in Germany or Italy - they lost WWII and wouldn't have been able to do a damn thing about having to surrender some of their land.  I understand there were religious motives in Israel's placement, but long-term safety and stability should have taken priority.  Perpetual warfare should have been an easily foreseeable outcome when Palestine was displaced for Israel and a Jewish nation was plopped down in the middle of a lot of Muslim countries.  If we stopped supporting Israel and they managed to survive on their own, good for them.  If not...oh well, it wouldn't be the first country to be conquered.  Not meddling in affairs on the other side of the globe that have nothing to do with us would do a lot to reduce the risk of foreign terrorist attacks against the US, and at some point that should be the primary concern over playing world police.

You, sir, are a rough ridin' moron.

[felix rex]

But if the US stopped all financial, military and political support of Israel today there would not be an Israel 10 years from now.

When people say stuff like this, I can never tell if they're for or against supporting Israel.

I'm against supporting Israel (and most other countries for that matter).  They have been around long enough...

You could have just stopped right there.

[Shacks]

Great counter-arguments, fellas.  You really have convinced me that getting involved in other country's problems halfway across the globe is worth billions of dollars and the loss of American lives while giving terrorists a good reason to target the US.

[Emo EMAW]

You should read Start-Up Nation.

[felix rex]

When you're opening gambit is that you support Israel ceasing to exist via violent means, I'm not really interested in further discussion. Still friends, though.

[Shacks]

When you're opening gambit is that you support Israel ceasing to exist via violent means, I'm not really interested in further discussion. Still friends, though.

Fair enough, I worded it poorly.  I'm not for the demise of Israel.  I don't support the US supporting Israel so heavily, and if a byproduct of the US not supporting Israel is the demise of Israel so be it.  It's my opinion that it is more beneficial for the US to save money and lives and improve relations with countries that are terrorist breeding grounds than it is to back one country so much.  It's just my educated guess that Israel wouldn't exist without US support, but 1) I could easily be wrong, I've never claimed to be a psychic and 2) why does it fall on America's shoulders to make sure another country can hold off its enemies?  Why is it our responsibility?

This isn't solely an Israel thing or a Jew thing.  I'm a big isolationist and I apply this reasoning to all countries that the US supports.  It's more beneficial for America to not get involved in affairs between other nations unless there is a direct threat to our country.  Tampering with affairs in various Middle East countries is a major reason why the US is targeted by terrorists, and I think it's foolish to propagate that by continuing to back anyone in that area of the world.

[Emo EMAW]

How many Americans are killed a year by terrorism?

[CNS]

Dear WWIII,

What is taking you so long?

Sincerly,

Shacks

[Shacks]

How many Americans are killed a year by terrorism?

How many freedoms have we lost for the sake of protecting ourselves from terrorism?  How many Americans have died fighting other people's wars?

Dear WWIII,

What is taking you so long?

Sincerly,

Shacks

If Middle East countries nuke each other, it only turns into WWIII if countries like America and China and Russia decide to involve themselves.  If everyone just sat back and while Middle East countries turn themselves into glass, it ends when they're done nuking each other.

[Panjandrum]

But if the US stopped all financial, military and political support of Israel today there would not be an Israel 10 years from now.

When people say stuff like this, I can never tell if they're for or against supporting Israel.

It's a certain level of mystery that keeps the relationship fresh.

[ben ji]

How many Americans are killed a year by terrorism?

How many freedoms have we lost for the sake of protecting ourselves from terrorism?  How many Americans have died fighting other people's wars?

Dear WWIII,

What is taking you so long?

Sincerly,

Shacks

If Middle East countries nuke each other, it only turns into WWIII if countries like America and China and Russia decide to involve themselves.  If everyone just sat back and while Middle East countries turn themselves into glass, it ends when they're done nuking each other.

Yeah, I'm totally cool with the countries sitting on over 50% of proven oil reserves turning each other into glass. What could possibly go wrong?

[Panjandrum]

When you're opening gambit is that you support Israel ceasing to exist via violent means, I'm not really interested in further discussion. Still friends, though.

The way Israel came into being is bad news.  The whole thing on both sides.  Why we felt compelled to give it to them after what they had been through, taking away the land of the Palestinians, putting them in the middle of a region that hates them, etc.

But now that we're here and at this point, what are you gonna do?  You can't just let them get slaughtered.

[Emo EMAW]

I don't think "we" "put them there." 

[Shacks]

How many Americans are killed a year by terrorism?

How many freedoms have we lost for the sake of protecting ourselves from terrorism?  How many Americans have died fighting other people's wars?

Dear WWIII,

What is taking you so long?

Sincerly,

Shacks

If Middle East countries nuke each other, it only turns into WWIII if countries like America and China and Russia decide to involve themselves.  If everyone just sat back and while Middle East countries turn themselves into glass, it ends when they're done nuking each other.

Yeah, I'm totally cool with the countries sitting on over 50% of proven oil reserves turning each other into glass. What could possibly go wrong?

We finally get serious about developing effective alternative energy sources instead of delaying it until we're out of oil.  Also, Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't turned into permanently uninhabitable wastelands after they were bombed.

[Shacks]

I don't think "we" "put them there."

Yeah, the British decided to replace Palestine with Israel.  They should be the ones bearing the military and financial burden of supporting Israel since they wanted to place it in the Middle East instead of a much safer European location.

[Emo EMAW]

Well there were already a crap ton of Jews there.  It's not like the Brits picked a spot on a map and said "okay all you Jews, move right here."

[Shacks]

You're right, there were some conditions that made Israel's location attractive.  But Europe also had a sizable Jewish population and it really should've been obvious that a bunch of Muslim countries just might be aggressive towards a Jewish country that replaced a fellow Muslim nation.  What do you think the reaction in America would be if Canada was replaced with a Muslim theocracy and all Canadians were either kicked out or turned into lower class citizens?  Whose side do you think we would take?

[Emo EMAW]

Would you accept Jewish Israelis into the US? 

[Shacks]

I would.  The US turned away some Jewish refugees during WWII, and I think that was despicable.  Like I said earlier, it's not a Jewish thing.  I'm not scattering racial slurs and Holocaust denials in my posts.  It's a "don't eff with stuff on the other side of the world that doesn't concern you" thing.

[EllRobersonisInnocent]

Would you accept Jewish Israelis into the US?

Only if they go to Montana/Wyoming/Idaho

[Emo EMAW]

I would.  The US turned away some Jewish refugees during WWII, and I think that was despicable.  Like I said earlier, it's not a Jewish thing.  I'm not scattering racial slurs and Holocaust denials in my posts.  It's a "don't eff with stuff on the other side of the world that doesn't concern you" thing.

Fair enough.  FWIW I'd take them all, too. 

[felix rex]

But Europe also had a sizable Jewish population

Google "Dreyfus case."

What do you think the reaction in America would be if Canada was replaced with a Muslim theocracy and all Canadians were either kicked out or turned into lower class citizens?  Whose side do you think we would take?

Not comparable. But what if we gave it back to an Eskimo diaspora living in Central America?