Author Topic: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look  (Read 135785 times)

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #825 on: June 16, 2018, 07:52:05 AM »
I kinda get the twist when it’s a government account like Trump preventing people from following him, but this argument makes no sense to me. The First Amendment doesn’t say you have a right to speak your political views, it says the government doesn’t have a right to infringe them in most cases.

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #826 on: June 16, 2018, 07:54:49 AM »
https://twitter.com/nbcnews/status/1007832638353113089?s=21

Not trying to troll, but genuinely curious what you think of something like this dlew re: free speech.


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I generally have an issue with the kind of “we’ll shout louder than you so your words can’t be heard” type of protests, but I think it’s damn near impossible to infringe on the White House’s ability to speak. They have practically unlimited means of getting their message out.

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #827 on: June 16, 2018, 08:38:00 AM »
@KK:  I'm not sure there's much to discuss.  I don't have a problem with anything that happened in the video.  I think it's perfectly appropriate for them to be protesting/heckling Pence, but I also think a perfectly acceptable response to that is to kick them out of the room.

Do you have a problem with the hecklers being removed?


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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #828 on: June 16, 2018, 09:12:39 AM »
That should be happening any time anyone in this admin speaks to the public
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #829 on: June 16, 2018, 01:09:07 PM »
@KK:  I'm not sure there's much to discuss.  I don't have a problem with anything that happened in the video.  I think it's perfectly appropriate for them to be protesting/heckling Pence, but I also think a perfectly acceptable response to that is to kick them out of the room.

Do you have a problem with the hecklers being removed?

We are on the same page.

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"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #831 on: June 18, 2018, 08:36:57 AM »
I kinda get the twist when it’s a government account like Trump preventing people from following him, but this argument makes no sense to me. The First Amendment doesn’t say you have a right to speak your political views, it says the government doesn’t have a right to infringe them in most cases.

Yeah. The judge didn't rule that the white nationalist's first amendment rights were violated, though. The judge just didn't allow the case to be dismissed.

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #832 on: June 18, 2018, 08:52:13 AM »

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #833 on: June 18, 2018, 09:07:58 AM »

Yeah. The judge didn't rule that the white nationalist's first amendment rights were violated, though. The judge just didn't allow the case to be dismissed.

You still have to find some legal merit to the argument. I haven’t read the decision but I’m just not sure what the legal merit could be here.

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #834 on: June 18, 2018, 06:04:06 PM »
I kinda get the twist when it’s a government account like Trump preventing people from following him, but this argument makes no sense to me. The First Amendment doesn’t say you have a right to speak your political views, it says the government doesn’t have a right to infringe them in most cases.

Yeah. The judge didn't rule that the white nationalist's first amendment rights were violated, though. The judge just didn't allow the case to be dismissed.
Right, but I can't even conceive what hypothetical facts, if proven, would entitle the plaintiffs to relief. Is Twitter a state actor? Is Twitter some sort of public forum or public channel/instrumentality?

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #835 on: June 18, 2018, 06:41:27 PM »
So it appears the judge suggested that unconscionability of the user contract might be a viable theory. Also, it seems the California constitution may differ from the federal one in that there may be some positive rights given to citizens that they can raise against private businesses who open up their doors as a sort of public forum.

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Offline sys

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"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #838 on: June 20, 2018, 10:28:11 AM »
It 100% belongs. 

Quote
"I lost my job in my band Buck Wild, roughly $3,000 [in expected future performance fees], and I've lost three solo gigs already. And that's all for voicing my opinion, and yes, it was harsh, but it was just an opinion," he said.

He added that the Facebook post "was taken out of context. I really just meant that I would protect America's border at any cost. That's what I should have said and now I'm completely screwed."

He did not, however, recant the statement entirely, instead blaming the response on people's unwillingness to listen "the truth" as he defines it.

"I'm not the person I'm being made out to be right now. I'm just an American and I believe in America first, and that's something that people don't want to hear these days," he said. "When people speak the truth, they don't want to hear it these days. And now I've found myself in a s**tstorm, so to speak."


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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #839 on: June 20, 2018, 10:34:58 AM »
i guess it falls within the spectrum of pc, if not free speech.  i don't think there is a broad constituency for the notion that discussion of shooting putatively prospective immigrants is improperly censured by an overly cautious society, but then i also didn't think a third of the country wanted to torture children.  i've already had to update my assumptions and may need to do so again.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #840 on: June 20, 2018, 10:48:56 AM »
Yeah. I don't take issue with his life/prospects being worse because of the private reactions to horrible things he says.  As Sys remarked, those social/economic consequences should be expected.


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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #841 on: June 20, 2018, 10:58:48 AM »
I think claiming you would like to drive to the border and murder people falls more into morally incorrect territory than politically incorrect.

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #842 on: June 20, 2018, 10:59:49 AM »
It's actually a pretty popular position in certain political circles
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #843 on: June 20, 2018, 11:06:43 AM »
But that is almost the very definition of Political Correctness: running into social consequences by using language that is taboo/against societal norms.

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #844 on: June 20, 2018, 11:10:01 AM »
Yeah. I don't take issue with his life/prospects being worse because of the private reactions to horrible things he says.  As Sys remarked, those social/economic consequences should be expected.


I think claiming you would like to drive to the border and murder people falls more into morally incorrect territory than politically incorrect.


It is almost the very definition of Political Incorrectness: running into social consequences by using language that is taboo/against societal norms. 



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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #845 on: June 20, 2018, 11:17:03 AM »
in my mind, the definition of politically correct includes something like this statement at the end.

Quote
In public discourse and the media, it is generally used as a pejorative, implying that these policies are excessive.
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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #846 on: June 20, 2018, 11:20:31 AM »
Yeah. I don't take issue with his life/prospects being worse because of the private reactions to horrible things he says.  As Sys remarked, those social/economic consequences should be expected.


I think claiming you would like to drive to the border and murder people falls more into morally incorrect territory than politically incorrect. 


It is almost the very definition of Political Incorrectness: running into social consequences by using language that is taboo/against societal norms.
:dunno:

I certainly don't have a problem with the concept of social consequences based on speech.  I think some of the interesting discussions we've had ITT re. "political correctness" (under your definition) have been based on what societal norms are, what they should be, and what the appropriate consequences are for violating them.


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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #847 on: June 20, 2018, 11:48:24 AM »
In today's word, self-describing as anti-PC/anti-SJW means that you believe you are speaking truth to power, you are a parrhesiastes bravely exposing the "deep truth", the "mythical truth".

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #848 on: June 20, 2018, 12:00:43 PM »
In today's word, self-describing as anti-PC/anti-SJW means that you believe you are speaking truth to power, you are a parrhesiastes bravely exposing the "deep truth", the "mythical truth".
err, maybe the particularly high-minded ones like Peterson. but I don't think people who identify as "anti-pc/anti-SJWs" are of the belief that there shouldn't be any social consequences for speech, which is what we're talking about. 


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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #849 on: June 24, 2018, 07:02:43 PM »
Bigger threat to free speech:
people protesting speakers

OR

people creating a list of pro-Palestine activists, accusing them of 'terrorism' and reporting them to authorities?

https://theintercept.com/2018/06/24/students-for-justice-in-palestine-fbi-sjp/