Health care!

[ZmoneyKSU]

America, you had a nice ride

[Jeffy]

How effective will Obamacare be when 39 states (the ones that currently have sovereignty resolutions in place or pending) plus all the years of litigation take effect?  I'm guessing, if nothing else, the courts will put a hold on anything taking effect until resolution of some of the major issues.

[OK_Cat]

That's sad that the republican party has no turned into "the party that stalls and bitches"

[theKSU]

Making fun of Republicans after their colossal loss on this issue is more fun than making fun of KU for losing yesterday. 

By the way, I hope Rush Limbaugh enjoys that Gubmint Health Care in Costa Rica. 

[Dirty Sanchez]

That's sad that the republican party has no turned into "the party that stalls and bitches"

It's liiiikkkkkeeee raaaaaaiiiinnnn on a sunny day.....

[OK_Cat]

That's sad that the republican party has no turned into "the party that stalls and bitches"

It's liiiikkkkkeeee raaaaaaiiiinnnn on a sunny day.....

So no response, eh?   

Once again, common sense wins out and republicans are left sucking their thumbs and name-calling. 

[Dirty Sanchez]

That's sad that the republican party has no turned into "the party that stalls and bitches"

It's liiiikkkkkeeee raaaaaaiiiinnnn on a sunny day.....

So no response, eh?   

Once again, common sense wins out and republicans are left sucking their thumbs and name-calling. 

It's liiiikkkkkeeee raaaaaaiiiinnnn on a sunny day.....

[OK_Cat]

If you're going to try and use lyrics from a song to 'make a point,' at least get the lyrics correct.

In the meantime, keep crying. Big juicy tears!

[Dirty Sanchez]

If you're going to try and use lyrics from a song to 'make a point,' at least get the lyrics correct.

In the meantime, keep crying. Big juicy tears!

 

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

If you're going to try and use lyrics from a song to 'make a point,' at least get the lyrics correct.

In the meantime, keep crying. Big juicy tears!

how about It's like a black fly in your Chardonnay?

[AzCat]

I'm quite pleased that this passed and particularly that it was passed in the manner in which it was.  Obamacareis one of the last best hopes for the republic.   

[theKSU]

You're the only Republican in America who isn't in full-on panic mode. 

[AzCat]

Sorry to disappoint you but I'm not a Republican. 

Don't hold out hope that the courts will enjoin and eventually overturn the entire bill Jeffy.  It's very unlikely that the courts will lift the hood on the legislative sausage-making process and find the entire mess to be unconstitutional.  They're not going to inquire into the manner in which it was passed, the trillion dollars of double-counting that was necessary to make it appear deficit neutral, the purchase of House votes by the Executive Branch, etc.  The only way it will be reversed en toto is if a sufficient number of the American people vote to give the Republicans a supermajority in the Senate concurrent with control of the House & Executive which is also exceedingly unlikely though quite a bit more likely than the courts striking down the entire bill. 

Parts of Obamacare will eventually be found to be unconstitutional (the individual mandate being at the top of the list of likely candidates) but it will be on a line-by-line / paragraph-by-paragraph basis.  Most of the 2700+ pages will stand unless they're reversed at the ballot box. 

[Stupid Fitz]

Only thing that sucks at this point is that it will still go on for another year debating the "fixes" in the senate.  I have given up caring and just want it to be over.  Both sides are fracking liars.  The bill is crap for working americans and the dems don't care because they want to be known for passing healthcare.  Now, most of those dems are going to get voted out and repubs will move in and we will get more one sided crap bills.  The whole system needs to be blown up.   

Best part of the debate was the lady that got up and declared that "being a woman is a pre existing condition".  What stupid lib whore. 

[Paul Moscow]

"a no smoking sign........on your cigarette break."  <--- THANKS GOV FOR INSTITUTING AND DESIGNATING CERTAIN AREAS THAT BAN CIGARETTE SMOKING!! YOU HAVE WITHOUT A DOUBT SAVED THE LIVES OF THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS AND HAVE HELPED MILLIONS MORE BY ISOLATING DUMB HEAD SMOKERS TO BITCH, HACK AND WHEEZE SEPARATE FROM THE GENERAL POPULOUS  

   <---- EXCEPT W/ NO SMOKING!

[Jeffy]

Sorry to disappoint you but I'm not a Republican. 

Don't hold out hope that the courts will enjoin and eventually overturn the entire bill Jeffy.  It's very unlikely that the courts will lift the hood on the legislative sausage-making process and find the entire mess to be unconstitutional.  They're not going to inquire into the manner in which it was passed, the trillion dollars of double-counting that was necessary to make it appear deficit neutral, the purchase of House votes by the Executive Branch, etc.  The only way it will be reversed en toto is if a sufficient number of the American people vote to give the Republicans a supermajority in the Senate concurrent with control of the House & Executive which is also exceedingly unlikely though quite a bit more likely than the courts striking down the entire bill. 

Parts of Obamacare will eventually be found to be unconstitutional (the individual mandate being at the top of the list of likely candidates) but it will be on a line-by-line / paragraph-by-paragraph basis.  Most of the 2700+ pages will stand unless they're reversed at the ballot box. 

I'm not holding out hope of the courts being the only solution, only part of a multipronged attack.  The ballot box/the people and state governments are also to major parts.  I definitely have a part of me that agrees with your earlier post, that Obamacare is a good thing.  It has created a much more active and informed electorate, which is the best thing for this country.  There will be an avalanche in the next election that will dwarf all those seen in the past.  I'm still not convinced that 10-15 years down the road, the US will have divided in much the same way the Soviet Union.

[Stupid Fitz]

Just spoke to a guy at work who's wife is a primary care doc. He wad happy about the bill passing. His wife said last night that their retirement just got moved up. She is closing down her office as soon as this POS kicks in. She already stopped accepting Medicaid as they lost money on every person. Sweet, more patients less doctors. Sweet idea.

[Jeffy]

I asked a buddy, who works in admin at a hospital, what he and his hospital think of it

Well, something needed to change.  We ‘eat’ in the neighborhood of twenty million a year by caring for uninsured patients.  If we’re able to recoup some of that the consensus seems to be that we’ll be in better shape and in less need of increasing rates across the board.

Also, by and large we’re supportive of the Medicare reforms in the bill—the hope is that they will help reduce some over-utilization by ‘frequent flyers’.

Certainly not perfect, but it is better than the status quo….

I typically don't breach the subject of politics with him at all, since we are polar opposites. 

[AzCat]

The ballot box/the people and state governments are also to major parts.

You can cross state governments off that list as well, at least for the most part. 

The declarations of sovreignty currently issuing from many state legislatures are without legal effect and it's a well-settled point that states cannot overrule the federal government when the latter acts in accord with its constitutional authority.  States may be able to deep six the individual mandate & some of the kickbacks but it's doubtful that they'll be able to undo much else through the courts.

The states could demand a Constitutional Convention and attempt to make the bill unconstitutional that way but the process if fraught with peril.  Given who controls many of our state legislatures it's as likely as not that a Convention would just go ahead and adopt the Communist Manifesto as our new Constitution.  It would almost certainly do more harm than good. 

[Stupid Fitz]

I asked a buddy, who works in admin at a hospital, what he and his hospital think of it

Well, something needed to change.  We ‘eat’ in the neighborhood of twenty million a year by caring for uninsured patients.  If we’re able to recoup some of that the consensus seems to be that we’ll be in better shape and in less need of increasing rates across the board.

Also, by and large we’re supportive of the Medicare reforms in the bill—the hope is that they will help reduce some over-utilization by ‘frequent flyers’.

Certainly not perfect, but it is better than the status quo….

I typically don't breach the subject of politics with him at all, since we are polar opposites. 

that is kind of what I have heard so far. May be ok for hospitals, but primary care docs, not so much. Wasn't Barry for small business?

[Jeffy]

Here's some highlights of what will be signed into law:

HSA's - limit of $2500 per year, and only prescription drugs and insulin will be allowed. No more OTC medication.

Non-Profit Hospitals - to continue their tax exemption, they must provide certain levels of charitable service, forego collection activities, and meet other standards of community work as set by the HHS.

Fees on branded prescriptions - 75% on sales from $225M - $400M, then 100%.

Fees on medical devices - 50% on sales from $5M - $25M

Health Insurance Providers - Must present justification for premium increases. If not justified as determined by HHS, they can't participate in any exchanges.

Premium factors - the only factors that can be considered are: individual or family, rating area, age, tobacco use. Every insurer must accept every business and individual.

Required services - A whole range of services are required and I won't list them all, but included are maternity and newborn care, substance abuse, and pediatric care that includes oral and vision. Abortion is not required, with an exception I'll explain later.

Companies can offer a national plan - the plan must meet all of the HHS requirements and all state requirements. It must be offered in at least 33 states initially, and 40 states eventually. If a company offers a national plan without abortion coverage, it must offer the same plan that includes abortion coverage.

Also on abortion - there is language prohibiting the use of federal funds, and segregating funds, but is disingenuous because a woman can get subsidized for everything else. There's also an abortion surcharge on all policies of not less than $1 per month.

State exchanges - a state can contract with one other state to set up an exchange, but it must be approved by HHS.

[AzCat]

Required services - A whole range of services are required and I won't list them all, but included are maternity and newborn care, substance abuse, and pediatric care that includes oral and vision. Abortion is not required, with an exception I'll explain later.

This is brutal.  California enacted a wide-ranging coverage mandate while I lived there and the cost of health insurance absolutely exploded.

[TBL]

Required services - A whole range of services are required and I won't list them all, but included are maternity and newborn care, substance abuse, and pediatric care that includes oral and vision. Abortion is not required, with an exception I'll explain later.

This is brutal.  California enacted a wide-ranging coverage mandate while I lived there and the cost of health insurance absolutely exploded.

AzCat Logic Check:

Insurance companies are required to insure children, to age 26 on parents policy. No one can be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions. Insurance companies can't limit the amount of pay outs on your policy.

Odds of insurance companies staying in business without sky rocketing the costs of their policies?

Nil.

AzCat logic is still good.

[AzCat]

AzCat Logic Check:

Insurance companies are required to insure children, to age 26 on parents policy. No one can be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions. Insurance companies can't limit the amount of pay outs on your policy.

Odds of insurance companies staying in business without sky rocketing the costs of their policies?

Nil.

AzCat logic is still good.

They've patterned their new federal insurance regulatory scheme after California's electricity deregulation plan of roughly a decade ago.  There California forced generators to split from retail sellers (grid operators) while simultaneously tightly capping retail prices.  Formerly stable vertically-integrated businesses quickly went broke as energy prices spiked generation costs which spiked wholesale prices charged by generators all while retail prices remained tightly capped.  With retail sellers unable to pass their costs through they died quick deaths. 

Here the lefties have designed a plan to spike costs borne by insurance companies while tightly regulating the costs passed through to consumers.  They'll quickly bankrupt private insurers and be back clamoring for a wholesale government takeover of all health care in a few years all while claiming that it's a failure of the free market. 

[TBL]

AzCat Logic Check:

Insurance companies are required to insure children, to age 26 on parents policy. No one can be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions. Insurance companies can't limit the amount of pay outs on your policy.

Odds of insurance companies staying in business without sky rocketing the costs of their policies?

Nil.

AzCat logic is still good.

They've patterned their new federal insurance regulatory scheme after California's electricity deregulation plan of roughly a decade ago.  There California forced generators to split from retail sellers (grid operators) while simultaneously tightly capping retail prices.  Formerly stable vertically-integrated businesses quickly went broke as energy prices spiked generation costs which spiked wholesale prices charged by generators all while retail prices remained tightly capped.  With retail sellers unable to pass their costs through they died quick deaths. 

Here the lefties have designed a plan to spike costs borne by insurance companies while tightly regulating the costs passed through to consumers.  They'll quickly bankrupt private insurers and be back clamoring for a wholesale government takeover of all health care in a few years all while claiming that it's a failure of the free market. 

We agree on something.