Sporting KC Thread!! (Featuring All of MLS and sometimes Mexican Leagues too)

[sunny_cat]

@sgevans: "Fans will have a major voice in the official name and logo". So name not decided yet? LAFC a 'working name'?

[Tobias]

because FC Dallas

[Cartierfor3]

It would be cool if they were the LA Riots

[sunny_cat]

It would be cool if they were the LA Riots

Taken by a tv show on Robert Rodriguez's network, El Rey called Matador.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3652662/

Great name tho

[mocat]

It would be cool if they were the LA Riots

[MakeItRain]

Talk salary cap with me.  How does it help the league to allow free spending?

It wouldn't. It would allow more big names to be lured over in the prime of their careers to a very small select group of teams but it would hurt the development of young homegrown talent.

First of all, this is speculative opinion with no basis of fact. I'm wondering how you figure this would hurt the development of homegrown talent? My opinion doesn't match yours. My opinion is also speculative but I'm using non capped soccer leagues around the world and other non capped American sports leagues.

Baseball is the only sport without any sort of cap and there has never ever been a baseball team that has spent their way to success. As a matter of fact baseball has the most parity of any North American league and it is because of the attention paid to developmental talent.

I guess the real issue is whether or not we believe the league is strong enough to function without a cap.  My understand was that the cap also had a strong motive to prevent fratricide between member teams instead of limiting the amount of money the teams can use to attract talent as its being looked at now.  I'm really worried that an uncapped league will result in a few teams over paying for American talent and a large swath of the league becoming feeder clubs (royals in the late 90s early 00s) or folding entirely because they can't afford what talent the MLS has.  I guess the entire paradigm has to be shaped by the way we see the strength of the league to absorb a few outliers who can pay a lot for talent, but still allow competition.

Yeah of course a few clubs will overpay for talent, that's happening now without a cap. That's one of the false flags of leagues with a salary cap, even with a cap there is a wide disparity of what teams spend. Toronto spent out of their asses and what do they have to show for it? At this point the cap is limiting the growth of the league because there is essentially a cap on how much high level talent the league can acquire. The point of Twellman bringing it up is that we can't even compete with teams from Costa Rica because they spend more money on players.

I also think that the cap hampers player development. If teams can acquire similar talent by spending similar money there really isn't the same motivation to develop your own controllable talent. As I said in the previous message look at the best teams in the best leagues in any sport all around the world and the thing they have in common is not spending money like a drunken 40 year old virgin in a strip club, but it is superior player development.

[MakeItRain]

http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/30/video-hugely-controversial-call-sees-fc-dallas-past-vancouver-in-playoffs-your-vote/?utm_network=facebook&utm_post=3121621&utm_source=FB%20-%20NBC%20Sports%20Soccer&utm_tags=

Mark Geiger had a pretty uneven match last night but that hand ball absolutely should have been called. The ball undoubtedly hit his arm in the box and it likely took away a scoring opportunity. I mean if you don't call that one are we only limiting calling hand balls to catching the ball and running with it like you're Darren Sproles?

[ednksu]

http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/30/video-hugely-controversial-call-sees-fc-dallas-past-vancouver-in-playoffs-your-vote/?utm_network=facebook&utm_post=3121621&utm_source=FB%20-%20NBC%20Sports%20Soccer&utm_tags=

Mark Geiger had a pretty uneven match last night but that hand ball absolutely should have been called. The ball undoubtedly hit his arm in the box and it likely took away a scoring opportunity. I mean if you don't call that one are we only limiting calling hand balls to catching the ball and running with it like you're Darren Sproles?

Not sure how you arrived to that conclusion based on the rule book.
"handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own
penalty area)" and that is usually interpreted to mean unnatural motions by the arm towards the ball are "intentional", ie, not trying to pin your arm behind your back or it being in a natural hanging position.

[ednksu]

Talk salary cap with me.  How does it help the league to allow free spending?

It wouldn't. It would allow more big names to be lured over in the prime of their careers to a very small select group of teams but it would hurt the development of young homegrown talent.

First of all, this is speculative opinion with no basis of fact. I'm wondering how you figure this would hurt the development of homegrown talent? My opinion doesn't match yours. My opinion is also speculative but I'm using non capped soccer leagues around the world and other non capped American sports leagues.

Baseball is the only sport without any sort of cap and there has never ever been a baseball team that has spent their way to success. As a matter of fact baseball has the most parity of any North American league and it is because of the attention paid to developmental talent.

I guess the real issue is whether or not we believe the league is strong enough to function without a cap.  My understand was that the cap also had a strong motive to prevent fratricide between member teams instead of limiting the amount of money the teams can use to attract talent as its being looked at now.  I'm really worried that an uncapped league will result in a few teams over paying for American talent and a large swath of the league becoming feeder clubs (royals in the late 90s early 00s) or folding entirely because they can't afford what talent the MLS has.  I guess the entire paradigm has to be shaped by the way we see the strength of the league to absorb a few outliers who can pay a lot for talent, but still allow competition.

Yeah of course a few clubs will overpay for talent, that's happening now without a cap. That's one of the false flags of leagues with a salary cap, even with a cap there is a wide disparity of what teams spend. Toronto spent out of their asses and what do they have to show for it? At this point the cap is limiting the growth of the league because there is essentially a cap on how much high level talent the league can acquire. The point of Twellman bringing it up is that we can't even compete with teams from Costa Rica because they spend more money on players.

I also think that the cap hampers player development. If teams can acquire similar talent by spending similar money there really isn't the same motivation to develop your own controllable talent. As I said in the previous message look at the best teams in the best leagues in any sport all around the world and the thing they have in common is not spending money like a drunken 40 year old virgin in a strip club, but it is superior player development.

So do you disagree that the league needed the cap in its early years to protect clubs from killing so called "smaller market" clubs?  If the MLS is truly able to pay more for players while retaining some parity, especially competing against international clubs, than I think most would be in favor of a larger cap or flexible cap.  I'm curious to see how you think the NFL is working so well with its hard cap?  Sure each team has to be responsible with any monies they have, whether it be Toronto in MLS or NYY in MLB the last few years (Lakers with Kobe's contract too).  But I'm looking at the overall health of the league.  You raise a valid point that it could help player development if clubs don't have their kids being poached by other teams/leagues. 

[joda]

MLS needed a cap in the early days when it was a new league trying to get a foothold in a region that already has 4 major professional sports. Now that it has started to establish itself and develop into a higher quality league the cap is hindering that development. I don't think you just rip the cap off like a band-aid but it needs to be raised significantly in the short-term or have the DP program expanded. Of course a few teams would far outspend the others, but clubs like SKC that have a history of discovering and developing talent combined with the ability to spend at least league average would thrive as well.

IMO, 2 things need to be done if the league goes uncapped. 1) Continue to limit the number of international slots. The best thing for the league is continuing to develop American talent and that won't happen if teams just load up on European and Latin American players. 2) Require more homegrown development. Something like requiring a specific number of homegrown players on the roster would encourage teams to spend on development academies and force even the big spenders to try and develop talent.

[sunny_cat]

http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/30/video-hugely-controversial-call-sees-fc-dallas-past-vancouver-in-playoffs-your-vote/?utm_network=facebook&utm_post=3121621&utm_source=FB%20-%20NBC%20Sports%20Soccer&utm_tags=

Mark Geiger had a pretty uneven match last night but that hand ball absolutely should have been called. The ball undoubtedly hit his arm in the box and it likely took away a scoring opportunity. I mean if you don't call that one are we only limiting calling hand balls to catching the ball and running with it like you're Darren Sproles?

 

[MakeItRain]

http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/30/video-hugely-controversial-call-sees-fc-dallas-past-vancouver-in-playoffs-your-vote/?utm_network=facebook&utm_post=3121621&utm_source=FB%20-%20NBC%20Sports%20Soccer&utm_tags=

Mark Geiger had a pretty uneven match last night but that hand ball absolutely should have been called. The ball undoubtedly hit his arm in the box and it likely took away a scoring opportunity. I mean if you don't call that one are we only limiting calling hand balls to catching the ball and running with it like you're Darren Sproles?

Not sure how you arrived to that conclusion based on the rule book.
"handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own
penalty area)" and that is usually interpreted to mean unnatural motions by the arm towards the ball are "intentional", ie, not trying to pin your arm behind your back or it being in a natural hanging position.

The rule book doesn't really matter since it leaves room for judgment. He deliberately attempted to play the ball with his chest and he handled the ball in doing so, I'm not sure how you can parse his intent outside of that. He undoubtedly attempted to play that ball, he is a professional athlete that should be responsible for what his body does when he tries to play that ball. That judgment interpretation is intended to not penalize a player that had a ball hit his hand or arm while not directly involved in playing the ball, obviously this wasn't the case here. He played the ball and while doing so his arm prevented the ball from going into a playable area for Dallas.

[MakeItRain]

http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/30/video-hugely-controversial-call-sees-fc-dallas-past-vancouver-in-playoffs-your-vote/?utm_network=facebook&utm_post=3121621&utm_source=FB%20-%20NBC%20Sports%20Soccer&utm_tags=

Mark Geiger had a pretty uneven match last night but that hand ball absolutely should have been called. The ball undoubtedly hit his arm in the box and it likely took away a scoring opportunity. I mean if you don't call that one are we only limiting calling hand balls to catching the ball and running with it like you're Darren Sproles?

 

JFC sunny, do you have an opinion or are you just going to post a lame ass emoticon?

I challenge you to think of an occurrence ever when you saw a guy intentionally play a ball, in space, in the box and handle the ball without it being called.

[sunny_cat]

It was a terrible call. Challenging me to think of a specific instance is bull crap. Why would I know that off the top of my head?

[sunny_cat]

Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with his hand or arm. The referee must take the following into consideration:

•    the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)
•    the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)
•    the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement
•    touching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.) counts as an infringement
•    hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) counts as an infringement

Clearly not moving his hand (arm) towards the ball seeing as he's moving it away from the ball. Seemed to be pretty unexpected seeing as it hit the ground and hit him like half a second after. So how is it a handball? I don't give a eff about what's been called in the past. It's just not a handball.

[CNS]

thrown shinguard 

That would be pretty great.

[MakeItRain]

It was a terrible call. Challenging me to think of a specific instance is bull crap. Why would I know that off the top of my head?

It's not bullshit at all, I can give you a week. None of us have ever seen a player intentionally play the ball in the box, handle it while doing so, then not get a hand ball called. If Geiger didn't call the hand ball there would be just as many people freaking out.

Also you seem weirdly angry about this, I'd suggest you chill out with all of the swearing

[Tobias]

well you guys just goaded me into watching the damn video.  swallow the whistle, terrible

[sunny_cat]

It was a terrible call. Challenging me to think of a specific instance is bull crap. Why would I know that off the top of my head?

It's not bullshit at all, I can give you a week. None of us have ever seen a player intentionally play the ball in the box, handle it while doing so, then not get a hand ball called. If Geiger didn't call the hand ball there would be just as many people freaking out.

Also you seem weirdly angry about this, I'd suggest you chill out with all of the swearing

I'm not angry, but I would be if I were a Whitecaps fan.

[sunny_cat]

[sunny_cat]

Color scheme idea from twitter

[MakeItRain]

It was a terrible call. Challenging me to think of a specific instance is bull crap. Why would I know that off the top of my head?

It's not bullshit at all, I can give you a week. None of us have ever seen a player intentionally play the ball in the box, handle it while doing so, then not get a hand ball called. If Geiger didn't call the hand ball there would be just as many people freaking out.

Also you seem weirdly angry about this, I'd suggest you chill out with all of the swearing

I'm not angry, but I would be if I were a Whitecaps fan.

And what if you're a FCD (lol as if they actually exist) fan and it was not called?

[Tobias]

paging @42

[CopperBowl]

Gotta be honest guys, I wouldn't mind a win tonight.

[Tobias]

Gotta be honest guys, I wouldn't mind a win tonight.

YES!