Author Topic: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.  (Read 100415 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Cartierfor3

  • Fattyfest Champion
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 27058
  • I just want us all to be buds.
    • View Profile
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #375 on: October 20, 2014, 09:20:33 PM »
Klein and Bishop were Heisman finalists, and on teams on top of the rankings. Jake is not yet up with those 2. He can be, but not yet.

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53675
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #376 on: October 20, 2014, 09:41:00 PM »
If anything, this shows how ridiculously overrated Collin Klein was. How on earth was he a Heisman finalist?

Offline wetwillie

  • goEMAW Poster of the WEEK
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 30239
    • View Profile
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #377 on: October 20, 2014, 09:43:52 PM »
If anything, this shows how ridiculously overrated Collin Klein was. How on earth was he a Heisman finalist?
I think it was because he scored lots of touchdowns and ran for lots of yards
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53675
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #378 on: October 20, 2014, 09:46:17 PM »
If anything, this shows how ridiculously overrated Collin Klein was. How on earth was he a Heisman finalist?
I think it was because he scored lots of touchdowns and ran for lots of yards

Super low YPC

Offline Cartierfor3

  • Fattyfest Champion
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 27058
  • I just want us all to be buds.
    • View Profile
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #379 on: October 20, 2014, 10:01:21 PM »
getting awful kRusty in here......

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53675
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #380 on: October 20, 2014, 10:05:49 PM »
getting awful kRusty in here......

Well this season Waters is basically outperforming Klein's senior season except Klein didn't have a difficult OOC game. Sorry, the numbers from Panj don't lie.

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 44805
    • View Profile
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #381 on: October 20, 2014, 10:18:43 PM »
I don't care if it's adolf hitler out there zipping passes downfield, I just want to win football games

As it stands, Jake is on pace to have the best season for total offense in KSU history.

If he hovers around 300 a game, which is where he is now, and we get that thirteenth bowl game, he will crush all previous records. No KSU QB has ever gone over 3600 yards (including bowls), and the years we had a QB go over 3500 were 98, 03, and 12.

Jake is on pace for 3900.  Just saying.

Good numbers, he's having a good to great season but even if he eclipses 4000 yards this season the only way he even is considered one of our all-time elite QBs is if we go to the CFP.

I'd say 9-3 with this schedule puts him in the conversation. 10-3 with a nice bowl win and he's definitely worth mentioning. CFB playoff puts him in the conversion for best Snyder QB ever.

If he were to go 10-2, win the Big 12, and then beat ND in the Cotton Bowl, he's up there with Bishop and Ell, IMO.

I'll agree to disagree with all of this. If you put Bish, Ell, or Collin on last years team, there is no QB carousel and the team doesn't lose 5 games. We are just as good, if not better this season with those guys. If he wins the Big 12 he will have a season similar to the other three, I don't think he's a better college qb than any of those guys. For me his ceiling is the best of the next group that has Waters, Beasley, and May.

Offline Mixed-Nutz

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 3411
  • Square
    • View Profile
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #382 on: October 20, 2014, 10:43:31 PM »
My issue with Waters is that his talent leaves something to be desired no matter how well he plays. It is weird.

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 44805
    • View Profile
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #383 on: October 20, 2014, 11:27:22 PM »
My issue with Waters is that his talent leaves something to be desired no matter how well he plays. It is weird.

It's because he doesn't do anything exceptionally. He's a good, not great, passing QB, his pocket presence is okay at best, he is still a poor runner but he has done a great job of learning the reads so he's an effective runner. He has improved a great deal with ball security. Despite all of this he's winning and making great plays while doing so.

Offline EllRobersonisInnocent

  • PCKK7DC Survivor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *******
  • Posts: 7690
    • View Profile
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #384 on: October 20, 2014, 11:38:26 PM »
I've been #TeamWaters since day 1. Feels good to be vindicated.

Offline bones129

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 12132
  • RUN! Tell all the other curs the Law's coming!
    • View Profile
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #385 on: October 20, 2014, 11:53:45 PM »
My issue with Waters is that his talent leaves something to be desired no matter how well he plays. It is weird.

It's because he doesn't do anything exceptionally. He's a good, not great, passing QB, his pocket presence is okay at best, he is still a poor runner but he has done a great job of learning the reads so he's an effective runner. He has improved a great deal with ball security. Despite all of this he's winning and making great plays while doing so.

Some good points here, the most important of which is that Jake is winning.

Offline Stevesie60

  • Fattyfest Champion
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 17072
    • View Profile
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #386 on: October 21, 2014, 01:52:37 AM »
Pretty much echoing what everyone is saying, but I think he'll end up being the bottom of the tier one K-State Qbs/top of the tier 2 K-State QBs. If we win the Big 12, how is he not in the conversation with the rest of the tier 1 guys?

Offline stunted

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 5568
    • View Profile
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #387 on: October 21, 2014, 01:57:12 AM »
Besides after the shoulder thing I don't remember Jake throwing a single bad pass during the ou game. Lockett dropped early, Burton wasn't looking but the pass was in the area, Sexton almost with the 1 hander, and Cook's drop. He is on fire.
He is dinking and dunking with the best of them.

Great, that was his weakness last year.

It's unfortunate the defense is so inconsistent this year.

He should be considered the best if we win the big 12. None of the other guys were exceptional at everything either, and having more yards gives him the edge.

Online mocat

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 39042
    • View Profile
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #388 on: October 21, 2014, 06:37:09 AM »
Klein was exceptional at being a plow horse and getting first downs and touchdowns and using the entire play clock and winning the big 12

catzacker

  • Guest
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #389 on: October 21, 2014, 06:40:08 AM »
getting awful kRusty in here......

Well this season Waters is basically outperforming Klein's senior season except Klein didn't have a difficult OOC game. Sorry, the numbers from Panj don't lie.

All Jake needs is 39 more TD's this year and 3 more Int's to match CK's JR and SR yr production.  Klein had more rushing TD's in a two year period than Jake has total TD's (as it sits right now, 10 more).   And then also lead his team to a big 12 title. 

Offline Asteriskhead

  • PCKK7DC Survivor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *******
  • Posts: 9371
  • giving new meaning to the term "anger juice"
    • View Profile
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #390 on: October 21, 2014, 07:26:49 AM »
Klein loves god better than Jake, so god made him physically better.

Offline slobber

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 12427
  • Gonna win 'em all!
    • View Profile
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #391 on: October 21, 2014, 07:52:04 AM »
Jake is not going to make any amazing runs like El or Michael. He is never going to truck someone like Collin. He has begun to read the defense and the running lanes better to pick up large chunks running the ball. MiR has it right.


Gonna win 'em all!

Offline slobber

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 12427
  • Gonna win 'em all!
    • View Profile
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #392 on: October 21, 2014, 07:52:31 AM »

Klein loves god better than Jake, so god made him physically better.
Plus this God component.


Gonna win 'em all!

Offline CATILLAC

  • Fan
  • *
  • Posts: 185
    • View Profile
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #393 on: October 21, 2014, 08:02:43 AM »
IMO The big 12 is a toss up this year, if Jake can win out I will be highly impressed and would have to bump his ranking up as a wildcat signal caller. As it currently stands He reminds me alot of Alex Smith he's decent game manager but not exceptional at anything really, and like smith if pressured he panics.

Offline felix rex

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Knows what Brent did
    • View Profile
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #394 on: October 21, 2014, 08:12:21 AM »
I don't think I'll ever forgive him for making us a constant NDSU talking point.
"How will I recruit to Manhattan? Well, distance. And the proud state of basketball. It start there, and then daily flights to Dallas, because I'm really good at going out. Like top five good. Ask my wife. She wants me to be happy."

Offline TownieCat

  • Fattyfest Champion
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 6993
  • I have no rhythm.
    • View Profile
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #395 on: October 21, 2014, 08:18:02 AM »
Jake is not going to make any amazing runs like El or Michael. He is never going to truck someone like Collin. He has begun to read the defense and the running lanes better to pick up large chunks running the ball. MiR has it right.


Gonna win 'em all!

I don't get the perception that he is not a good runner. Jake has broken a 50+ yard run in each of the last two games. His 40 time is around 4.6 which is fast for a QB.

Offline Panjandrum

  • 5 o'clock Shadow Enthusiast
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 11221
  • Amateur magician and certified locksmith.
    • View Profile
    • Bring on the Cats [An SB Nation Blog]
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #396 on: October 21, 2014, 08:58:04 AM »
I'll agree to disagree with all of this. If you put Bish, Ell, or Collin on last years team, there is no QB carousel and the team doesn't lose 5 games. We are just as good, if not better this season with those guys. If he wins the Big 12 he will have a season similar to the other three, I don't think he's a better college qb than any of those guys. For me his ceiling is the best of the next group that has Waters, Beasley, and May.

I have no issue with disagreement.  I'd consider Jake a "sneaky good" QB for all of the reasons you mentioned in another post.

Regarding the QB carousel last year, I think that was more of a function of two things: First, Jake turned the ball over a ton the first few games, and that's going to get you yanked, and two, I think everyone realized we were attempting Marc Dunn Pt. 2, and that didn't fit any model that Snyder realistically liked.

Snyder has had success with two types of QB's: Exceptional runners that can throw fairly well, and gigantic battering rams that hammer you mercilessly with the QB run game that can throw a little bit.  Either we have a very dynamic QB run game (Bishop, Ell, and Sams to a certain degree), or we have battering rams (Beasley, Klein).  You even see this dichotomy in the kinds of kids we've recruited to play QB.  For example, in the Klein mold, we have Hubener, Ertz, and now this Laird kid.  Big, tall kids  that have funky throwing motions, run upright, and ram themselves into the line.  Then, in the Ell mold, you had Sams and now Delton.  Guys that are dynamic on the ground, but did (and will) require significant investment in the passing game because, while they have good arms, they are not accomplished or polished passers.

I think Snyder knows how to use those kinds of guys.  He doesn't know how to use Jake, which made his recruitment all that more bizarre, and why it's taken this long to figure out exactly what we want to do with him.  Had we taken Nick Marshall, and somehow found a way to keep Sams, we probably could have ridden the same type of offensive scheme from Marshall, to Sams as a bridge, and then to Delton.  Now, by deviating, we're going to do an about face on the offense again next year and go back to the lumbering QB run game because that's what we have on the bench for the foreseeable future.

Offline pissclams

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 46345
  • (worst non-premium poster at goEMAW.com)
    • View Profile
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #397 on: October 21, 2014, 09:10:42 AM »
seems pretty dumb to think that snyder doesn't know how to use waters


Cheesy Mustache QB might make an appearance.

New warning: Don't get in a fight with someone who doesn't even need to bother to buy ink.

Online Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 37049
    • View Profile
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #398 on: October 21, 2014, 09:12:07 AM »
Jake can't pass Klein, Bishop, or Ell, because all of those guys had 2 terrific seasons. We finished the regular season 7-5 last year.

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53675
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.
« Reply #399 on: October 21, 2014, 09:14:26 AM »
Jake can't pass Klein, Bishop, or Ell, because all of those guys had 2 terrific seasons. We finished the regular season 7-5 last year.

Beasley had an amazing pair of seasons, too.