Author Topic: It's Time  (Read 14041 times)

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Online star seed 7

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2017, 10:42:46 AM »
9 wins what a crap year  :bawl:
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Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2017, 10:45:25 AM »
That was last years West Virginia game. Shits gonna happen, but i'll take 9 wins.

Offline PIPE

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2017, 10:47:28 AM »
Our offensive play calling lacks creativity and always has with Dimel here. Nothing new and we will continue to lose games we should be winning.
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Offline DOD Take 2

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2017, 10:54:57 AM »
Sure that sounds whiny but in the current Big 12 any average team is winning the same number of games. I just want us to still be capable of the occasional year we compete for the dr. Pepper. This was supposed to be that year but instead we're clearly in the second tier.

Offline yoga-like_abana

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2017, 10:56:31 AM »
I thought next year was the year?

Offline DOD Take 2

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2017, 11:01:26 AM »
It's the same reason Florida fans hate McElwain or Nebraska fans wanted Pelini out. Yeah they win the games they should but they don't beat the good teams and get over the hump. 9 wins is good and I get it we're K-State but it seems like the last 5 years we blow every chance in games against legitimately good teams

Offline KSURFC8

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2017, 11:06:30 AM »
I'm not saying Vandy sucks but they are a mid-level Big 12 team on their best day.

Then so are we

Which is why there needs to be a change, because we should not be a mid level program. There are plenty of things that need to change after last night, but coaching happens to be one of them.

Neither Vandy or K-State are mid level programs, goodness gracious. K-State is a top 25 program and Vandy, under Mason, seems to be headed there.

Please tell my how we are not a mid-level program. We've won exactly 1 Big XII Conference Championship in our history, shared another (which was also our last one and 5 years ago), have a decidedly losing bowl record (I believe it's somewhere around 8-12), won exactly 0 Big 8 Conference Championships and are one of only four other schools that can lay claim to over 600 losses.

We periodically are nationally ranked but have been ranked #1 just twice with no major bowl wins and 0 National Championships.

We are never (and if I recall correctly this includes the DoD of the '90s) ranked consistently either during a season or more importantly from the conclusion of a season and then again at the start of the next season.

Yes, we strung together an impressive run of 9+ wins seasons during the 1990's but that's almost 20 years ago and since then we've struggled to do the same or build any type of sustainable continuity. It's always up or down, have a good/great season and then seemingly start over.

I think we can do much, much better. We have the facilities, the money, the fan support and the schools administrative support. IMO, what we lack is some vision in the football program and a unwillingness to accept a certain level of mediocrity and follow through with fixing that.
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Online MakeItRain

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2017, 11:39:17 AM »
I'm not saying Vandy sucks but they are a mid-level Big 12 team on their best day.

Then so are we

Which is why there needs to be a change, because we should not be a mid level program. There are plenty of things that need to change after last night, but coaching happens to be one of them.

Neither Vandy or K-State are mid level programs, goodness gracious. K-State is a top 25 program and Vandy, under Mason, seems to be headed there.

Sure we might be a Top 25 team but do you see us competeting for a conference title soon? I cannot see it with the consistent baffling decisions we make. And I don't really want to settle for 8-9 wins a year.

I'll happily eat crow if the rest of the season proves me wrong but we don't appear to be in the same class as either Oklahoma school. It was by far the most disappointing loss and least encouraging game I've seen us play since Snyder came back.

I agree with that, but I took exception to your classification of Vandy, and by default, us as mid level. I also disagree that us being a 9 win program necessitates a coaching change.  College football is full of 5-7 win programs, we aren't elite but we're clearly a top 25 program and I'm happy with that. I'll take 7-10 wins a year with a legit run happening every five years. I know people don't want to hear this now but we are still a year away from the peak for this team. The best two teams in this conference are losing the best QBs in their programs history after this season, at worst we will be returning either all 11 starters or 10 of them.

I get being frustrated with Saturday but the state of the program is in great shape.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2017, 11:49:10 AM »
I'm all for high expectations, but sometimes you have to appreciate what you have. We are clearly the 3rd best football program in this league in the 8 years since Snyder's return. (Baylor's success is largely based on letting a program run with no checks IMO)

The numbers below (from the 09-16 seasons) give a great perspective about what we have. I'd love to consistently win Big 12 titles and compete for National Titles, but what we have is pretty damn good.


Offline TheHamburglar

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2017, 12:15:22 PM »
I'm all for high expectations, but sometimes you have to appreciate what you have. We are clearly the 3rd best football program in this league in the 8 years since Snyder's return. (Baylor's success is largely based on letting a program run with no checks IMO)

The numbers below (from the 09-16 seasons) give a great perspective about what we have. I'd love to consistently win Big 12 titles and compete for National Titles, but what we have is pretty damn good.



I think seeing a repeat of WVU last year, poor execution, & play calling squandering an opportunity make it worse.  It's not the loses that suck, it's the dysfunction leading to the losses that are driving the way people feel.  I'll also openly admit Dana Dimel being arrogant & condescending the few times he's allowed to talk to the media affect my feelings.

I'll still have a lot of fun watching us win 5-to-7 conference games.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 12:22:49 PM by TheHamburglar »
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Offline DOD Take 2

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2017, 02:01:27 PM »
I'm all for high expectations, but sometimes you have to appreciate what you have. We are clearly the 3rd best football program in this league in the 8 years since Snyder's return. (Baylor's success is largely based on letting a program run with no checks IMO)

The numbers below (from the 09-16 seasons) give a great perspective about what we have. I'd love to consistently win Big 12 titles and compete for National Titles, but what we have is pretty damn good.



I think seeing a repeat of WVU last year, poor execution, & play calling squandering an opportunity make it worse.  It's not the loses that suck, it's the dysfunction leading to the losses that are driving the way people feel.  I'll also openly admit Dana Dimel being arrogant & condescending the few times he's allowed to talk to the media affect my feelings.

I'll still have a lot of fun watching us win 5-to-7 conference games.

Yes this accurately describes my feelings

Online MakeItRain

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2017, 03:49:20 PM »
I'm all for high expectations, but sometimes you have to appreciate what you have. We are clearly the 3rd best football program in this league in the 8 years since Snyder's return. (Baylor's success is largely based on letting a program run with no checks IMO)

The numbers below (from the 09-16 seasons) give a great perspective about what we have. I'd love to consistently win Big 12 titles and compete for National Titles, but what we have is pretty damn good.



I think seeing a repeat of WVU last year, poor execution, & play calling squandering an opportunity make it worse. It's not the loses that suck, it's the dysfunction leading to the losses that are driving the way people feel.  I'll also openly admit Dana Dimel being arrogant & condescending the few times he's allowed to talk to the media affect my feelings.

I'll still have a lot of fun watching us win 5-to-7 conference games.

My dislike for how Dimel goes about his business is well documented, but man, it's college football, everybody has to deal with what I bolded. OSU lost to Central Michigan and Baylor last year.

Offline PurpleOil

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2017, 03:57:36 PM »
I think seeing a repeat of WVU last year, poor execution, & play calling squandering an opportunity make it worse.  It's not the loses that suck, it's the dysfunction leading to the losses that are driving the way people feel.  I'll also openly admit Dana Dimel being arrogant & condescending the few times he's allowed to talk to the media affect my feelings.

I'll still have a lot of fun watching us win 5-to-7 conference games.

YES!,It's the complete dysfunction. I'm by no means qualified to hold a coordinator or head coaching position at a P5 school. I also don't think I should therefor, be able to easily tell what plays we're about to run on offense. True, we've been a solid program ever since Snyder came back, and he's won more than twice the games that he's lost. But damn watching our offense struggle to move the ball against a lesser opponent and the coaches not trying to think outside the box when we were having trouble was incredibly frustrating. This one goes right up there on my list of games where we stole defeat from the jaws of victory: 2013 NDSU, 2014 Auburn, 2015 TCU, 2016 WVU, and now 2017 Vandy.

Offline TheHamburglar

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2017, 04:34:44 PM »
I'm all for high expectations, but sometimes you have to appreciate what you have. We are clearly the 3rd best football program in this league in the 8 years since Snyder's return. (Baylor's success is largely based on letting a program run with no checks IMO)

The numbers below (from the 09-16 seasons) give a great perspective about what we have. I'd love to consistently win Big 12 titles and compete for National Titles, but what we have is pretty damn good.



I think seeing a repeat of WVU last year, poor execution, & play calling squandering an opportunity make it worse. It's not the loses that suck, it's the dysfunction leading to the losses that are driving the way people feel.  I'll also openly admit Dana Dimel being arrogant & condescending the few times he's allowed to talk to the media affect my feelings.

I'll still have a lot of fun watching us win 5-to-7 conference games.

My dislike for how Dimel goes about his business is well documented, but man, it's college football, everybody has to deal with what I bolded. OSU lost to Central Michigan and Baylor last year.

I agree with that.  I'm spoiled because I'm not used to seeing it except once or twice a year. 
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Offline NC Dores

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2017, 04:42:17 PM »
My suggestion is to keep your current coach.  The loss to Vanderbilt...VANDERBILT was an aberration.

Without him, you are terrible...TERRIBLE: or, at worst, Kansas-lite.

Offline muqluk

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2017, 07:27:14 PM »
We played a trash team and lost in no small part due to agifted TD to vandy and one stolen from the cats.

That said this loss is completely on the coaching staff. We should have won and seeing how poorly prepared the players - and the game plan - was it leaves no doubt where blame lies.

We lost at least 1 head scratcher a year that we had no reason to lose to and that right now is the one constant about the program. In another conference that used to be called ... what was it? 
Oh yeah.  Clemsoning.
If the cats finally manage to turn that corner...

Offline Whisker Biscuit

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2017, 07:57:47 PM »
These threads always out posters under 35-40 years old. Those who think we should EXPECT 9+ wins a year, and if it's only 9, like the Nubbs under Pelini, then we need to start looking for a new coach....like Mike Riley.   :ROFL:

You would think the experiment with RP would have been enough of a wakeup call to the entitled fans that love to bitch about "only" going 7-5....or losing a bowl game, not landing 5 stars or not consistently battling for the Dr Pepper. 

Yeah, i'm frustrated with the Vandy game as i am with one or two games every year.  But the good far out weighs the bad.  Snyder isn't above being questioned about certain things (Dimel's play calling is low hanging fruit), but he's more than proven his ability to run our program and if you can't see that, you are a complete moron.  He's still one of the greatest coaches of all time.

Offline ksuchris2000

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2017, 08:18:00 PM »
The upper echelon of mediocrity is really all we can expect as k-staters. I would like to hear how we plan to deal with the 80 year old dude making recruiting visits and the "Are you going to live til Im a SR?" argument.

Offline muqluk

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2017, 08:27:18 PM »
My post from last night actually wasn't putting Bill in the cross hairs for anything more than being too willing to retain staff that isn't doing their jobs. He was much, much better at that part (getting good coaching staff in place) in the 90's.

As far as age and entitlement goes, I was at the game that the tide turned and I was a cats fan before I was old enough to really get just how bad they were - so at the risk of assuming you are talking about me directly or indirectly, Ill say you may not want to be quite so quick to assume ages, appreciation for how far the program has came,  or anything else suggesting fair weather fandom. It says more about you than about those you attempt to throw shade on.

It is in no way out unacceptable to expect constant incremental improvement and I would argue that simply accepting what we have and being thankful for it is horse crap. All those men on the staff, regardless of what their ages are and no matter the amount they are being paid are in fact, being paid to do that job. Professionals no matter their position age or station in life should be held to a standard and expected to meet or exceed that standard daily. Off days happen to everyone but then the expectation is that they learn from those off days and take steps to learn from them.

As I said in my last post and others have alluded to as well, KSU has for 2 decades now lost at least 1 game per season they had no business losing. That's coaching. Be it the strength and conditioning, position coach, coordinator ultimately that all falls under the responsibility of the head coach. And that acceptance of mediocrity and inconsistency needs to end

Besides who to hell really thinks Bill is doing it anyway - we all agree to varying levels that  Sean has been taking an ever increasing role... 

*edit*
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« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 08:32:45 PM by muqluk »

Offline ksuchris2000

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2017, 08:38:33 PM »
I'm all for high expectations, but sometimes you have to appreciate what you have. We are clearly the 3rd best football program in this league in the 8 years since Snyder's return. (Baylor's success is largely based on letting a program run with no checks IMO)

The numbers below (from the 09-16 seasons) give a great perspective about what we have. I'd love to consistently win Big 12 titles and compete for National Titles, but what we have is pretty damn good.



I dont understand the sorting on your first chart.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #45 on: September 18, 2017, 08:58:01 PM »
Somehow Baylor and K-State got flipped for the total games %.

Offline Whisker Biscuit

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #46 on: September 18, 2017, 09:51:30 PM »
What is often overlooked is the difficulty of identifying and hiring a coach who is better than what you currently have.   University's with blue blood history and virtually unlimited resources like Texas and Nebraska have struggled mightily to find a coach that can even approach mediocrity let alone exceed it.  To assume that replacing a proven winner (albeit one that "only" competes for conference championships every 5-7 years) is easy, or even probable at KSU, should ask some other programs that had the same mindset.  I'm not saying we shouldn't expect to hire a great coach when Bill retires, but i'm anticipating rough waters and won't be at all surprised if we whiff a handful of times before (hopefully) finding someone who can approach even remotely the success that Bill has had.

Offline muqluk

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #47 on: September 18, 2017, 10:11:48 PM »
Thats fair and I agree. What I would ask, however, is that some attempt be made prior to him walking into the sunset to find a staff that isnt going to walk off with him or worse.  Or, at least a few more. Key positions are going to walk when he does and we al know it.  And whats wrong with holding people accountable and. Ot allowing them to continue to drop games like this every. Single. Time. We have a team that is capable of greatness?

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #48 on: September 18, 2017, 10:17:02 PM »
A lot of these assistants are only staying in coaching because of Bill. Miller couldn't hang on anymore, but Hayes and Mo for sure are just waiting for him to retire so they can too. It will be interesting to see what happens with Dickey.

Plus, I am not surprised at all that the only younger coaches willing to work for Bill are his former players. He simply wasn't going to attract some young hot shot coach at his age and with his expectations for work ethic. It's also why some of his younger former players left (Joe Bob, Michael Smith).

Offline cfbandyman

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Re: It's Time
« Reply #49 on: September 18, 2017, 10:52:20 PM »
8/9 win season on the reg I will always take. Was super frustrated though at the game Saturday and I am very tired of losing road games I attend, so I will stop doing that.

That being said, the longer I get away from the game, the more this feels like Auburn 2014. We definitely did more to lose this game ourself than Vandy did to us, which is kind of a weird spot in that Vandy essentially out Snyderball'd us.

I think we'll have a fine season take the L's v OSU and OU, and maybe another, get into a decent bowl, pull that out, and as MiR said enjoy the fact that both OSU and OU will probably have bigger problems than we will come next year. The ceiling is high, even if it might take another year.
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