Author Topic: "Obamacare"  (Read 317400 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline CNS

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 36683
  • I'm Athletes
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2400 on: April 20, 2016, 02:56:54 PM »
Heard an interview with an Aussie guy a month or so ago.  He said they have a combo system where the basics are covered by the govt, but there is a private market for anything you may wish in addition to the basics.  He said he pays something like $600 a year and its great.  When asked about access, he said that if you have some non emergency stuff, you may wait a couple weeks to a month.  He said if you have an accident and need a surgery, you get it that day.

I like the general sound of that. One of the biggest issues with Americans is that we tend to think if we didn't come up with the idea it is probably not that good. Our healthcare system is actually pretty far behind many other developed countries.

People also need to realize that everyone with insurance in this country is already subsidizing basic healthcare costs of the poor and uninsured. Hospitals typically just write off those expenses and pass them on to patients that actually pay.

What are considered "basics"? Is preventative care a "basic"?

The interview was on a completely different topic and only covered like three or four questions on this, but yeah, it sounded like it covered the general practicianer, emergency room stuff, and the other basic stuff you would expect a normal person to need on an annual basis.  This guy was also on a bunch of meds for nerve damage(again unrelated interview topics), so I would imagine either the govt did something with that or that could be the reason he has the $600 extra annual coverage. 

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 7637
  • 1cat
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2401 on: April 20, 2016, 03:06:27 PM »
Heard an interview with an Aussie guy a month or so ago.  He said they have a combo system where the basics are covered by the govt, but there is a private market for anything you may wish in addition to the basics.  He said he pays something like $600 a year and its great.  When asked about access, he said that if you have some non emergency stuff, you may wait a couple weeks to a month.  He said if you have an accident and need a surgery, you get it that day.

They also have closed borders and a huge waiting list to get in. If you can't prove you won't be a drag on society, you aren't getting in.

Offline Ptolemy

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 754
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2402 on: April 20, 2016, 03:19:21 PM »

 do you pay more than me in premiums since I'm younger and never get sick?

Don't know what you pay but I probably pay less than you even though I'm older because some of us elites have great insurance plans because we negotiated them as a condition of our employment.

Offline catastrophe

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15222
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2403 on: April 20, 2016, 03:25:28 PM »
Heard an interview with an Aussie guy a month or so ago.  He said they have a combo system where the basics are covered by the govt, but there is a private market for anything you may wish in addition to the basics.  He said he pays something like $600 a year and its great.  When asked about access, he said that if you have some non emergency stuff, you may wait a couple weeks to a month.  He said if you have an accident and need a surgery, you get it that day.

They also have closed borders and a huge waiting list to get in. If you can't prove you won't be a drag on society, you aren't getting in.

So build a wall and then free healthcare for everyone. Win win. :cheers:

Offline Emo EMAW

  • PCKK7DC Survivor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *******
  • Posts: 17891
  • Unrepentant traditional emobro
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2404 on: April 20, 2016, 03:29:18 PM »
In this country you have a right to be fat, gross, and unhealthy.  You do not have the right to be fat, gross, and unhealthy and have your neighbor foot the bill.

Offline Ptolemy

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 754
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2405 on: April 20, 2016, 03:31:44 PM »
CANCER
By John Stossel  Published April 20, 2016 

I write this from the hospital. Seems I have lung cancer.

My doctors tell me my growth was caught early and I'll be fine. Soon I will barely notice that a fifth of my lung is gone. I believe them. After all, I'm at New York-Presbyterian Hospital. U.S. News & World Report ranked it No. 1 in New York. I get excellent medical care here.

But as a consumer reporter, I have to say, the hospital's customer service stinks. Doctors keep me waiting for hours, and no one bothers to call or email to say, "I'm running late." Few doctors give out their email address. Patients can't communicate using modern technology.

I get X-rays, EKG tests, echocardiograms, blood tests. Are all needed? I doubt it. But no one discusses that with me or mentions the cost. Why would they? The patient rarely pays directly. Government or insurance companies pay.

I fill out long medical history forms by hand and, in the next office, do it again. Same wording: name, address, insurance, etc.

I shouldn't be surprised that hospitals are lousy at customer service. The Detroit Medical Center once bragged that it was one of America's first hospitals to track medication with barcodes. Good! But wait -- ordinary supermarkets did that  decades before.

Customer service is sclerotic because hospitals are largely socialist bureaucracies. Instead of answering to consumers, which forces businesses to be nimble, hospitals report to government, lawyers and insurance companies.

Whenever there's a mistake, politicians impose new rules: the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act paperwork, patient rights regulations, new layers of bureaucracy...

Nurses must follow state regulations that stipulate things like, "Notwithstanding subparagraph (i) of paragraph (a) of this subdivision, a nurse practitioner, certified under section sixty-nine hundred ten of this article and practicing for more than three thousand six hundred hours may comply with this paragraph in lieu of complying with the requirements of paragraph (a)..."

Try running a business with rules like that.

Adding to that is a fear of lawsuits. Nervous hospital lawyers pretend mistakes can be prevented with paper and procedure. Stressed hospital workers ignore common sense and follow rigid rules.

In the intensive care unit, night after night, machines beep, but often no one responds. Nurses say things like "old machines," "bad batteries," "we know it's not an emergency." Bureaucrats don't care if you sleep. No one sues because he can't sleep.

Some of my nurses were great -- concerned about my comfort and stress -- but other hospital workers were indifferent. When the customer doesn't pay, customer service rarely matters.

The hospital does have "patient representatives" who tells me about "patient rights." But it feels unnatural, like grafting wings onto a pig.

I'm as happy as the next guy to have government or my insurance company pay, but the result is that there's practically no free market. Markets work when buyer and seller deal directly with each other. That doesn't happen in hospitals.

You may ask, "How could it? Patients don't know which treatments are needed or which seller is best. Medicine is too complex for consumers to negotiate."

But cars, computers and airplane flights are complex, too, and the market still incentivizes sellers to discount and compete on service. It happens in medicine, too, when you get plastic surgery or Lasik surgery. Those doctors give patients their personal email addresses and cell phone numbers. They compete to please patients.

What's different about those specialties? The patient pays the bill.

Leftists say the solution to such problems is government health care. But did they not notice what happened at Veterans Affairs? Bureaucrats let veterans die, waiting for care. When the scandal was exposed, they didn't stop. USA Today reports that the abuse continues. Sometimes the VA's suicide hotline goes to voicemail.

Patients will have a better experience only when more of us spend our own money for care. That's what makes markets work.


John Stossel is the host of "Stossel" (Fridays at 9 PM/ET), a weekly program highlighting current consumer issues with a libertarian viewpoint. Stossel also appears regularly on Fox News Channel (FNC) providing signature analysis. Click here for more information on John Stossel.

Offline Mrs. Gooch

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 9975
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2406 on: April 20, 2016, 03:38:19 PM »
I agree that customer service at a hospital is terrible. They rarely tell the patient or the family members what is going on.

Offline wetwillie

  • goEMAW Poster of the WEEK
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 30416
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2407 on: April 20, 2016, 03:41:06 PM »

 do you pay more than me in premiums since I'm younger and never get sick?

Don't know what you pay but I probably pay less than you even though I'm older because some of us elites have great insurance plans because we negotiated them as a condition of our employment.

Man subsidizing your old sick ass is really unfair to me. 
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline Mrs. Gooch

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 9975
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2408 on: April 20, 2016, 03:44:09 PM »

 do you pay more than me in premiums since I'm younger and never get sick?

Don't know what you pay but I probably pay less than you even though I'm older because some of us elites have great insurance plans because we negotiated them as a condition of our employment.

Man subsidizing your old sick ass is really unfair to me.

His employer is probably paying his share....

Offline star seed 7

  • hyperactive on the :lol:
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 64037
  • good dog
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2409 on: April 20, 2016, 03:44:23 PM »
I think 'lemy has no idea how insurance works, fascinating
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline wetwillie

  • goEMAW Poster of the WEEK
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 30416
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2410 on: April 20, 2016, 03:47:19 PM »

 do you pay more than me in premiums since I'm younger and never get sick?

Don't know what you pay but I probably pay less than you even though I'm older because some of us elites have great insurance plans because we negotiated them as a condition of our employment.

Man subsidizing your old sick ass is really unfair to me.

His employer is probably paying his share....

We both pay the same ,  he just uses shitloads more.  I think it's called a parasite.
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 7637
  • 1cat
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2411 on: April 20, 2016, 04:10:23 PM »
Soylent Green in 2022  :lick:

Offline Ptolemy

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 754
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2412 on: April 20, 2016, 04:47:39 PM »
I think

You prejudiced perception of your post with the first two words.

Offline ednksu

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 9862
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2413 on: April 20, 2016, 07:25:17 PM »
I can't believe that people don't think basic healthcare should be a right as an American citizen.

From where would such a "right" emanate?

Yeah the constitution definitely doesn't say anything about life and happiness in it. 

(honestly though I'd argue that it's to the point where the lack of healthcare threatens our basic liberties and equal protection under the law.  I know many wont see it that way, but I do.)
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline Ptolemy

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 754
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2414 on: April 20, 2016, 07:36:54 PM »

Yeah the constitution definitely doesn't say anything about life and happiness in it. 

(honestly though I'd argue that it's to the point where the lack of healthcare threatens our basic liberties and equal protection under the law.  I know many wont see it that way, but I do.)

Rights emanate from our Creator. The Constitution has no power to grant rights. There are no rights to healthcare granted by our Creator. Were that so, it would be saying we have a right to enslave another human being into service, because healthcare is a service provided by people. Slavery is immoral and actually outlawed by the 13th Amendment.

So, per the Constitution, we cannot possess a right to healthcare services.

Offline star seed 7

  • hyperactive on the :lol:
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 64037
  • good dog
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2415 on: April 20, 2016, 07:38:14 PM »
 :lol:
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

  • Racist Piece of Shit
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 18431
  • Kiss my ass and suck my dick
    • View Profile
    • I am the one and only Sugar Dick
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2416 on: April 20, 2016, 08:09:35 PM »
Anyone peddling the idea that health insurance is a fundamental right, is a lunatic.  Good grief, your claims of cognition are belied by the crap some of you people lap up and regurgitate.
goEMAW Karmic BBS Shepherd

Offline ednksu

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 9862
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2417 on: April 20, 2016, 11:42:27 PM »
Anyone peddling the idea that health insurance is a fundamental right, is a lunatic.  Good grief, your claims of cognition are belied by the crap some of you people lap up and regurgitate.
the fact that you thought I meant health insurance shows your level of ignorance.
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline Emo EMAW

  • PCKK7DC Survivor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *******
  • Posts: 17891
  • Unrepentant traditional emobro
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2418 on: April 21, 2016, 10:26:36 AM »
I can't believe that people don't think basic healthcare should be a right as an American citizen.

From where would such a "right" emanate?

Yeah the constitution definitely doesn't say anything about life and happiness in it. 

(honestly though I'd argue that it's to the point where the lack of healthcare threatens our basic liberties and equal protection under the law.  I know many wont see it that way, but I do.)

I'm sure you're purposely being obtuse here, but the right is the PURSUIT of those things.  Nowhere is the Constitution saying you have a right to be happy. 

Offline star seed 7

  • hyperactive on the :lol:
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 64037
  • good dog
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2419 on: April 21, 2016, 11:06:29 AM »
The whole "life"  thing is pretty clear cut tho
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline Emo EMAW

  • PCKK7DC Survivor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *******
  • Posts: 17891
  • Unrepentant traditional emobro
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2420 on: April 21, 2016, 11:14:41 AM »
Ya, it is.  I'd like to hear why you think that is relevant though? 

Offline star seed 7

  • hyperactive on the :lol:
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 64037
  • good dog
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2421 on: April 21, 2016, 11:20:21 AM »
I'd like to hear why you don't think it's relevant.
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline catastrophe

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15222
    • View Profile
"Obamacare"
« Reply #2422 on: April 21, 2016, 11:39:32 AM »
Aren't these things from the Declaration of Independence? That whole thing was just an excuse to breakup with England.

Offline chum1

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 21917
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2423 on: April 21, 2016, 11:42:13 AM »
I think it's perfectly acceptable for one to believe that sometimes people have rights that are not explicitly listed in government documents. I also think it's perfectly acceptable for one to believe that sometimes people should be given things to which they do not have a right.

Offline Emo EMAW

  • PCKK7DC Survivor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *******
  • Posts: 17891
  • Unrepentant traditional emobro
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2424 on: April 21, 2016, 11:43:41 AM »
Should, maybe.  Must, no.