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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: kso_FAN on November 04, 2013, 10:30:19 PM
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http://goEMAW.com/blog/?p=3193
Do with this what you wish.
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I can't believe you went to all that trouble just to stay on the fence. Also, you say the team will be better if ONE of them becomes the guy. But if Waters is ever the guy, we're mumped, and #burnitdown.
Seriously: Sams. #LIFE. That is the correct answer.
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I can't believe you went to all that trouble just to stay on the fence. Also, you say the team will be better if ONE of them becomes the guy. But if Waters is ever the guy, we're mumped, and #burnitdown.
Seriously: Sams. #LIFE. That is the correct answer.
I don't know, this version seems pretty boring and not very analytical to me: http://goEMAW.com/blog/?p=3220
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I don't know, this version seems pretty boring and not very analytical to me: http://goEMAW.com/blog/?p=3220
straight to the bottom :D
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Wow. The big plays isnt even close.
The other things are too close and can be reasoned by variance.
30 drives each is nothing, especially only a 4 td difference. I'll run some standard deviation numbers later but I can already tell its a crapshoot so far.
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I can't believe you went to all that trouble just to stay on the fence. Also, you say the team will be better if ONE of them becomes the guy. But if Waters is ever the guy, we're mumped, and #burnitdown.
Seriously: Sams. #LIFE. That is the correct answer.
I don't know, this version seems pretty boring and not very analytical to me: http://goEMAW.com/blog/?p=3220
Way better.
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Looks like Waters is benefiting from sharing drives w/ Sams. (Sams-only drives have higher YPP and PPD). And ZERO three and outs for Sams. ZERO!
Conclusion, you're an idiot if you don't think Sams should be the full time QB. Good grief.
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Looks like Waters is benefiting from sharing drives w/ Sams. (Sams-only drives have higher YPP and PPD). And ZERO three and outs for Sams. ZERO!
I think they've benefited from each other.
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Looks like Waters is benefiting from sharing drives w/ Sams. (Sams-only drives have higher YPP and PPD). And ZERO three and outs for Sams. ZERO!
Conclusion, you're an idiot if you don't think Sams should be the full time QB. Good grief.
:eek:
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Also, when you factor in time of possession (key for our week defense) and the fact that Sams is younger the choice is just more clear.
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#ZERO3O vs. #H3O
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Looks like Waters is benefiting from sharing drives w/ Sams. (Sams-only drives have higher YPP and PPD). And ZERO three and outs for Sams. ZERO!
I think they've benefited from each other.
Sams benefits from his own superior abilities, not from anything Carson Coff--er, Jake Waters--does.
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Looks like Waters is benefiting from sharing drives w/ Sams. (Sams-only drives have higher YPP and PPD). And ZERO three and outs for Sams. ZERO!
I think they've benefited from each other.
Sams benefits from his own superior abilities, not from anything Carson Coff--er, Jake Waters--does.
Pretty sure Sams has come in on goal-go situations after Water's drives 3 or 4 times in the last 2 weeks. 1 notable one was Rose's TD last week.
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Sams.
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Good stuff _FAN. Thanks.
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nice job _Fan. It's too close to call for this cat fan.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcanitbesaturdaynow.com%2Fimages%2Ffpics%2F1607%2FJuly_2_16_.jpg&hash=b85606223a7e51e34b2e84fcdc4e49d902853c67)
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nice job _Fan. It's too close to call for this cat fan.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcanitbesaturdaynow.com%2Fimages%2Ffpics%2F1607%2FJuly_2_16_.jpg&hash=b85606223a7e51e34b2e84fcdc4e49d902853c67)
:cheers:
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_FAN-
Honest question, what percent of Sams' drives occurred without the two biggest playmakers at WR? Infer what you want, but I think you could look at your sheets and answer that pretty quickly. I am just curious.
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_FAN-
Honest question, what percent of Sams' drives occurred without the two biggest playmakers at WR? Infer what you want, but I think you could look at your sheets and answer that pretty quickly. I am just curious.
should note Waters drives without them too. it's not just sams that was handicapped by missing the two playmakers.
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_FAN-
Honest question, what percent of Sams' drives occurred without the two biggest playmakers at WR? Infer what you want, but I think you could look at your sheets and answer that pretty quickly. I am just curious.
should note Waters drives without them too. it's not just sams that was handicapped by missing the two playmakers.
Agreed.
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_FAN-
Honest question, what percent of Sams' drives occurred without the two biggest playmakers at WR? Infer what you want, but I think you could look at your sheets and answer that pretty quickly. I am just curious.
65% for Sams and 21% for Waters.
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_FAN-
Honest question, what percent of Sams' drives occurred without the two biggest playmakers at WR? Infer what you want, but I think you could look at your sheets and answer that pretty quickly. I am just curious.
65% for Sams and 21% for Waters.
wow
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i lean towards sams but have accepted the two qb thing for two reasons. 1. they are both running the ball 10+ times a game. one of them will get hurt at some point and it will be sad but the football team won't be as mumped as it would be otherwise. 2. it's a way to teach both of them that turning the ball over is the worst thing that a human can do during their time on this planet.
those aren't great reasons, but i'm rationalizing so that i'm not so upset about our guy's playing time.
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i lean towards sams but have accepted the two qb thing for two reasons. 1. they are both running the ball 10+ times a game. one of them will get hurt at some point and it will be sad but the football team won't be as mumped as it would be otherwise. 2. it's a way to teach both of them that turning the ball over is the worst thing that a human can do during their time on this planet.
those aren't great reasons, but i'm rationalizing so that i'm not so upset about our guy's playing time.
you're broken. bill broke you.
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_FAN-
Honest question, what percent of Sams' drives occurred without the two biggest playmakers at WR? Infer what you want, but I think you could look at your sheets and answer that pretty quickly. I am just curious.
65% for Sams and 21% for Waters.
wow
#OURGUY
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i lean towards sams but have accepted the two qb thing for two reasons. 1. they are both running the ball 10+ times a game. one of them will get hurt at some point and it will be sad but the football team won't be as mumped as it would be otherwise. 2. it's a way to teach both of them that turning the ball over is the worst thing that a human can do during their time on this planet.
those aren't great reasons, but i'm rationalizing so that i'm not so upset about our guy's playing time.
you're broken. bill broke you.
I'm like Rocky. Ivan rough ridin' Drago couldn't break Rocky. #OURGUY
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Average TOP for drives:
Sams 3:13
Waters 2:28
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As always, thanks for doing this! I love using your numbers in my daily conversations with randoms.
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Average TOP for drives:
Sams 3:13
Waters 2:28
good stuff _FAN
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Competition is good let them compete until one player clearly wins. I know some of you think that has already happened with Sams but I don't agree. Let it play it out both guys will get better and sooner or later Sams will take it. When he does he'll be 100% ready to run the entire offense and he'll be better for having to fight/compete to get the job. In the meantime he won't get the crap beat out of him quite so much and he won't have his confidence shattered trying to do stuff he's not ready for.
I know some of you think Snyder is just a crazy stubborn old man. Maybe that is exactly what he is, but if that is the case than he's a crazy stubborn old man with a pretty damn good history of developing QB's. And spare me the 2004/2005 crap, there wasn't much anyone was going to be able to do with the group of QB's he had on that roster. That was a recruiting failure not a coaching failure. Snyder has probably done a better job than anyone at squeezing the maxium potential out of his quarterbacks.
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Sams should be the guy, but that is not to say that waters hasn't done nice things as well. I don't see anything wrong with bringing in waters if teams are gearing up to stop sams and forcing him to move and throw and he's not getting it done.
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i lean towards sams but have accepted the two qb thing for two reasons. 1. they are both running the ball 10+ times a game. one of them will get hurt at some point and it will be sad but the football team won't be as mumped as it would be otherwise. 2. it's a way to teach both of them that turning the ball over is the worst thing that a human can do during their time on this planet.
those aren't great reasons, but i'm rationalizing so that i'm not so upset about our guy's playing time.
you're broken. bill broke you.
bill breaks everyone and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break bill kills. bill kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially. If you are none of these you can be sure bill will kill you too but there will be no special hurry.
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I am very worried about Sams having his confidence shattered.
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sams just gets buckets guys. if we are in the opponents territory there is no reason waters should have the ball.
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sams just gets buckets guys. if we are in the opponents territory there is no reason waters should have the ball.
unless we really have to have a 3 and out. then it's waters.
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sams just gets buckets guys. if we are in the opponents territory there is no reason waters should have the ball.
unless we really have to have a 3 and out. then it's waters.
Or a 30 yard pass play. :D
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looking at Waters' and Sams' overall INT's, if Sams was allowed to throw as much as waters, he'd have 13 INTs so far this year. :sdeek:
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nice job _Fan. It's too close to call for this cat fan.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcanitbesaturdaynow.com%2Fimages%2Ffpics%2F1607%2FJuly_2_16_.jpg&hash=b85606223a7e51e34b2e84fcdc4e49d902853c67)
:love:
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I am very worried about Sams having his confidence shattered.
This is a good point. I don't necessarily believe playing one QB for 100% of the snaps is the best way to prepare them for next year. Sometimes you gotta yank a guy to get his attention. Those lessons are learned hard but better than an ass chewing in a film room which can easily be forgotten when it's a year later and you're playing Oregon for all the marbles and the entire world is watching and cheering for America's team.
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I am very worried about Sams having his confidence shattered.
This is a good point. I don't necessarily believe playing one QB for 100% of the snaps is the best way to prepare them for next year. Sometimes you gotta yank a guy to get his attention. Those lessons are learned hard but better than an ass chewing in a film room which can easily be forgotten when it's a year later and you're playing Oregon for all the marbles and the entire world is watching and cheering for America's team.
Honestly, I don't think confidence will ever be a problem with Sams, which is also one of his better traits.
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looking at Waters' and Sams' overall INT's, if Sams was allowed to throw as much as waters, he'd have 13 INTs so far this year. :sdeek:
ZACKalysis
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I am very worried about Sams having his confidence shattered.
This is a good point. I don't necessarily believe playing one QB for 100% of the snaps is the best way to prepare them for next year. Sometimes you gotta yank a guy to get his attention. Those lessons are learned hard but better than an ass chewing in a film room which can easily be forgotten when it's a year later and you're playing Oregon for all the marbles and the entire world is watching and cheering for America's team.
Honestly, I don't think confidence will ever be a problem with Sams, which is also one of his better traits.
Which is why it's okay to yank him to teach him a valuable lesson, IMO.
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looking at Waters' and Sams' overall INT's, if Sams was allowed to throw as much as waters, he'd have 13 INTs so far this year. :sdeek:
he wasn't allowed to throw until being asked to make comebacks against ranked teams. what a dumbass you must be to ignore this fact. :lol:
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I am very worried about Sams having his confidence shattered.
This is a good point. I don't necessarily believe playing one QB for 100% of the snaps is the best way to prepare them for next year. Sometimes you gotta yank a guy to get his attention. Those lessons are learned hard but better than an ass chewing in a film room which can easily be forgotten when it's a year later and you're playing Oregon for all the marbles and the entire world is watching and cheering for America's team.
Honestly, I don't think confidence will ever be a problem with Sams, which is also one of his better traits.
Agreed. He said last year he was trying to take the job from CK. I don't care if it was tongue in cheek when he said it, he still thought it.
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looking at Waters' and Sams' overall INT's, if Sams was allowed to throw as much as waters, he'd have 13 INTs so far this year. :sdeek:
ZACKalysis
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looking at Waters' and Sams' overall INT's, if Sams was allowed to throw as much as waters, he'd have 13 INTs so far this year. :sdeek:
he wasn't allowed to throw until being asked to make comebacks against ranked teams. what a dumbass you must be to ignore this fact. :lol:
oh, so when we have to have comebacks he's not our guy. got it.
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zero 3 and outs. is this real ?
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looking at Waters' and Sams' overall INT's, if Sams was allowed to throw as much as waters, he'd have 13 INTs so far this year. :sdeek:
he wasn't allowed to throw until being asked to make comebacks against ranked teams. what a dumbass you must be to ignore this fact. :lol:
oh, so when we have to have comebacks he's not our guy. got it.
did you see what i said about not being allowed to practice throwing the ball before those situations? did you see it but not understand the relevance?
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looking at Waters' and Sams' overall INT's, if Sams was allowed to throw as much as waters, he'd have 13 INTs so far this year. :sdeek:
If Waters was allowed to run as much as Sams, he would have 10 fumbles :sdeek:
Also, in fairness, Sams would have certainly had at least a couple three and outs on third and long when Bill put Waters in.
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Things like the detail on the plate is what makes Poonhound69 the best at these
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TD%
Sams: 38.5%
Waters: 20.7%
Even ignoring the fact that most of Sams' drives have been against better defenses than Waters' drives, this makes a Sams drive 86% more likely to end in a touchdown than a Waters drive. How can anybody be on the fence after seeing that statistic?
Also, a Waters drive is 94% more likely to end in a punt than a Sams drive.
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi133.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq45%2Fkougar24%2FKState%2FSams-car-crash-deal-with-it.gif&hash=7a013fecbda00084373fb1ff6a2150e96c97b977)
Things like the detail on the plate is what makes Poonhound69 the best at these
:thumbs:
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I didn't check the fanalysis but can someone tell me how many points we have left on the field when waters is in? Off the top of my head I think he has turned it over 3/4 times in scoring territory and that's the only stat I care about
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I didn't check the fanalysis but can someone tell me how many points we have left on the field when waters is in? Off the top of my head I think he has turned it over 3/4 times in scoring territory and that's the only stat I care about
Going by points per drive, we have left 30-31 points on the field.
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TD%
Sams: 38.5%
Waters: 20.7%
Even ignoring the fact that most of Sams' drives have been against better defenses than Waters' drives, this makes a Sams drive 86% more likely to end in a touchdown than a Waters drive. How can anybody be on the fence after seeing that statistic?
Also, a Waters drive is 94% more likely to end in a punt than a Sams drive.
Because Waters is better at +30yrd passes. which, of course, is an incredibly important stat for our air-it-out, spread-it-out, high flying, playground offense.
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I didn't check the fanalysis but can someone tell me how many points we have left on the field when waters is in? Off the top of my head I think he has turned it over 3/4 times in scoring territory and that's the only stat I care about
Going by points per drive, we have left 30-31 points on the field.
with just jake or combined? And to be more clear I'm talking turnovers inside our opponents 30 or better
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I didn't check the fanalysis but can someone tell me how many points we have left on the field when waters is in? Off the top of my head I think he has turned it over 3/4 times in scoring territory and that's the only stat I care about
Going by points per drive, we have left 30-31 points on the field.
with just jake or combined? And to be more clear I'm talking turnovers inside our opponents 30 or better
Well, that's kind of dumb, because the offense has to get the ball inside the opponent's 30 to lose the ball there, and there is no guarantee that the other guy would have even done that. Sams is scoring 2.81 points per drive. Waters is scoring 1.76. Waters has led 29 drives in Big 12 play, so 29*2.81-29*1.76 = 30.45, which is about how many more points we would have scored in our Big 12 games by not playing Waters, based upon the stats.
Edited to point out that I'm not calling kslimb dumb, just saying that his method is flawed.
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I didn't check the fanalysis but can someone tell me how many points we have left on the field when waters is in? Off the top of my head I think he has turned it over 3/4 times in scoring territory and that's the only stat I care about
Going by points per drive, we have left 30-31 points on the field.
with just jake or combined? And to be more clear I'm talking turnovers inside our opponents 30 or better
Well, that's kind of dumb, because the offense has to get the ball inside the opponent's 30 to lose the ball there, and there is no guarantee that the other guy would have even done that. Sams is scoring 2.81 points per drive. Waters is scoring 1.76. Waters has led 29 drives in Big 12 play, so 29*2.81-29*1.76 = 30.45, which is about how many more points we would have scored in our Big 12 games by not playing Waters, based upon the stats.
ok I honestly didn't know, I just remember the fumbles when we had a chance to score in close games. I will state I have selective memory so it doesn't help waters case with me
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stats may lie but the ball dont lie! BUCKETS!
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I didn't check the fanalysis but can someone tell me how many points we have left on the field when waters is in? Off the top of my head I think he has turned it over 3/4 times in scoring territory and that's the only stat I care about
Going by points per drive, we have left 30-31 points on the field.
with just jake or combined? And to be more clear I'm talking turnovers inside our opponents 30 or better
Well, that's kind of dumb, because the offense has to get the ball inside the opponent's 30 to lose the ball there, and there is no guarantee that the other guy would have even done that. Sams is scoring 2.81 points per drive. Waters is scoring 1.76. Waters has led 29 drives in Big 12 play, so 29*2.81-29*1.76 = 30.45, which is about how many more points we would have scored in our Big 12 games by not playing Waters, based upon the stats.
ok I honestly didn't know, I just remember the fumbles when we had a chance to score in close games. I will state I have selective memory so it doesn't help waters case with me
Both QBs have been bad with turnovers. Sams has just been about 86% better when he's not turning the ball over.
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I didn't check the fanalysis but can someone tell me how many points we have left on the field when waters is in? Off the top of my head I think he has turned it over 3/4 times in scoring territory and that's the only stat I care about
Going by points per drive, we have left 30-31 points on the field.
with just jake or combined? And to be more clear I'm talking turnovers inside our opponents 30 or better
Waters had fumbles inside the 10 at UT and inside the 20 vs WVU. Sams also fumbled into the endzone vs WVU and had a fumble inside the 30 vs OSU.
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Waters had fumbles inside the 10 at UT and inside the 20 vs WVU. Sams also fumbled into the endzone vs WVU and had a fumble inside the 30 vs OSU.
Although the OSU fumble wasn't really a fumble.
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every important stat points to our guy daniel being the better option even after the compiler of the stats removes jakes worst game and ignores the snaps without our only two playmaking WRs against by far our best competition.....
I'm on the fence, both basically equal
:lol:
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Sams also fumbled into the endzone vs WVU and had a fumble inside the 30 vs OSU.
waters_FAN's true colors are showing...
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I didn't check the fanalysis but can someone tell me how many points we have left on the field when waters is in? Off the top of my head I think he has turned it over 3/4 times in scoring territory and that's the only stat I care about
Going by points per drive, we have left 30-31 points on the field.
with just jake or combined? And to be more clear I'm talking turnovers inside our opponents 30 or better
Waters had fumbles inside the 10 at UT and inside the 20 vs WVU. Sams also fumbled into the endzone vs WVU and had a fumble inside the 30 vs OSU.
okay thank you. I won't view sams fumble at osu because it was an awful call but the point remains we turn it over too much on scoring opportunities and it sucks because we could be 6-2
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I didn't check the fanalysis but can someone tell me how many points we have left on the field when waters is in? Off the top of my head I think he has turned it over 3/4 times in scoring territory and that's the only stat I care about
Going by points per drive, we have left 30-31 points on the field.
with just jake or combined? And to be more clear I'm talking turnovers inside our opponents 30 or better
Waters had fumbles inside the 10 at UT and inside the 20 vs WVU. Sams also fumbled into the endzone vs WVU and had a fumble inside the 30 vs OSU.
_Fan, Sams' fumble against OSU doesn't count because TBL and TT weren't in the game against OSU.
Neither do his INT's against OSU and Baylor. TBL and TT would have been able to come back 15 or so yards and catch those severely under thrown deep(er) passes.
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every important stat points to our guy daniel being the better option even after the compiler of the stats removes jakes worst game and ignores the snaps without our only two playmaking WRs against by far our best competition.....
I'm on the fence, both basically equal
:lol:
I reject the notion that it is all or nothing with Sams. Can he realistically carry it 25 or 30 times week in and week out? If the answer is no can he be equally effective playing the entire game and carrying it 15 times or so? I think both QB's have been at their best in the games with more equal rotations so why not just stick to that Both guys have been turnover machines in the games where they played the vast majority of snaps.
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every important stat points to our guy daniel being the better option even after the compiler of the stats removes jakes worst game and ignores the snaps without our only two playmaking WRs against by far our best competition.....
I'm on the fence, both basically equal
:lol:
I believe I stated the premise was to compare each in Big 12 play, and given that they played equal snaps I think the comparison is fair. Plus, as sd said, the numbers don't bend toward Waters anyway. As for the games without Thompson/Lockett, there isn't much I can do about that. I gave you the drive% for each QB in this thread without them, so I think the comparison still has some validity.
I agree that the fumble vs OSU was questionable, but the play was reviewed and upheld, so it still counts.
Also, I said in the blog post that the numbers favor Sams, just not enough for me to get off the fence on the dual QB show at this point.
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I didn't check the fanalysis but can someone tell me how many points we have left on the field when waters is in? Off the top of my head I think he has turned it over 3/4 times in scoring territory and that's the only stat I care about
Going by points per drive, we have left 30-31 points on the field.
with just jake or combined? And to be more clear I'm talking turnovers inside our opponents 30 or better
Waters had fumbles inside the 10 at UT and inside the 20 vs WVU. Sams also fumbled into the endzone vs WVU and had a fumble inside the 30 vs OSU.
_Fan, Sams' fumble against OSU doesn't count because TBL and TT weren't in the game against OSU.
Neither do his INT's against OSU and Baylor. TBL and TT would have been able to come back 15 or so yards and catch those severely under thrown deep(er) passes.
I don't care what the call on the field was, it wasn't a fumble you dumb eff.
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_Fan, Sams' fumble against OSU doesn't count because TBL and TT weren't in the game against OSU.
Neither do his INT's against OSU and Baylor. TBL and TT would have been able to come back 15 or so yards and catch those severely under thrown deep(er) passes.
Thanks, I needed some ZACKalysis to verify that. That makes things a lot more clear.
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I didn't check the fanalysis but can someone tell me how many points we have left on the field when waters is in? Off the top of my head I think he has turned it over 3/4 times in scoring territory and that's the only stat I care about
Going by points per drive, we have left 30-31 points on the field.
with just jake or combined? And to be more clear I'm talking turnovers inside our opponents 30 or better
Waters had fumbles inside the 10 at UT and inside the 20 vs WVU. Sams also fumbled into the endzone vs WVU and had a fumble inside the 30 vs OSU.
_Fan, Sams' fumble against OSU doesn't count because TBL and TT weren't in the game against OSU.
Neither do his INT's against OSU and Baylor. TBL and TT would have been able to come back 15 or so yards and catch those severely under thrown deep(er) passes.
I don't care what the call on the field was, it wasn't a fumble you dumb eff.
more excuses for ourguy.
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I agree that the fumble vs OSU was questionable, but the play was reviewed and upheld, so it still counts.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FnydSK0N.gif&hash=105b1f6b6b52875e0ff5d763e1586f4c7e875057)
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I believe Sams can be Roberson. I want him to be Roberson. The similarities are ridiculous. especially within the context of their SO seasons.
Robersons (6'1, 209 lbs) SO stats:
Passing: 54 of 136 (39.7%) (YPA 6.3), 855 yds, 4 TD/8 INTs. Rushing: 142 attempts, 643 yds (4.5 avg), 9TDs.
Sams (6'2, 207 lbs) SO stats through 2/3 of season:
Passing: 34 of 45 (75.6%) (YPA 9.29), 418 yds, 4 TD/4 INTs. Rushing: 113 attempts, 595 yds (5.3 avg), 8 TDs.
He's got every bit of upside as Roberson and, of course, he's making the same mistakes Roberson made as a SO. Give him the keys to the car. Don't sacrifice the future.
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zacker just got added to the list of people i'm going to push down the next time i see them in aggieville. idk what he looks like but i've heard that he's 35 and handsome. 35 year old handsome men beware.
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I believe Sams can be Roberson. I want him to be Roberson. The similarities are ridiculous. especially within the context of their SO seasons.
Robersons (6'1, 209 lbs) SO stats:
Passing: 54 of 136 (39.7%) (YPA 6.3), 855 yds, 4 TD/8 INTs. Rushing: 142 attempts, 643 yds (4.5 avg), 9TDs.
Sams (6'2, 207 lbs) SO stats through 2/3 of season:
Passing: 34 of 45 (75.6%) (YPA 9.29), 418 yds, 4 TD/4 INTs. Rushing: 113 attempts, 595 yds (5.3 avg), 8 TDs.
He's got every bit of upside as Roberson and, of course, he's making the same mistakes Roberson made as a SO. Give him the keys to the car. Don't sacrifice the future.
No, no, no, didn't you listen to waters_FAN? There is no comparison between Roberson and Sams, or 2002 and what 2014 could be, because Marc Dunn played a lot after Roberson got hurt!
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Ok, _Fan, I’ve been doing some analysis and here’s what I came up with: When you take out all the bad things that happen when Sams is in the game, he has a 100% completion percentage, 4 TD’s to ZERO INT’s, and rushed for 8TD’s.
Now, my analysis is a bit incomplete as I haven’t had the opportunity to go back and count the yardage that he would have had if his stupid receivers hadn’t dropped the ball and I haven’t been able to go back and add the touchdowns we would have scored had he not turned it over, but based on what I can tell, if you strip away any adversity, Sams is our guy.
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No, no, no, didn't you listen to waters_FAN? There is no comparison between Roberson and Sams, or 2002 and what 2014 could be, because Marc Dunn played a lot after Roberson got hurt!
To be fair, michigancat made better points than me that favored the fact that there was a legitimate quarterback competition (and carousel) for most of the 2001 season.
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I believe Sams can be Roberson. I want him to be Roberson. The similarities are ridiculous. especially within the context of their SO seasons.
Robersons (6'1, 209 lbs) SO stats:
Passing: 54 of 136 (39.7%) (YPA 6.3), 855 yds, 4 TD/8 INTs. Rushing: 142 attempts, 643 yds (4.5 avg), 9TDs.
Sams (6'2, 207 lbs) SO stats through 2/3 of season:
Passing: 34 of 45 (75.6%) (YPA 9.29), 418 yds, 4 TD/4 INTs. Rushing: 113 attempts, 595 yds (5.3 avg), 8 TDs.
He's got every bit of upside as Roberson and, of course, he's making the same mistakes Roberson made as a SO. Give him the keys to the car. Don't sacrifice the future.
That makes Sams look way way better than Ell. :sdeek:
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Ok, _Fan, I’ve been doing some analysis and here’s what I came up with: When you take out all the bad things that happen when Sams is in the game, he has a 100% completion percentage, 4 TD’s to ZERO INT’s, and rushed for 8TD’s.
Now, my analysis is a bit incomplete as I haven’t had the opportunity to go back and count the yardage that he would have had if his stupid receivers hadn’t dropped the ball and I haven’t been able to go back and add the touchdowns we would have scored had he not turned it over, but based on what I can tell, if you strip away any adversity, Sams is our guy.
It's not a question of whether Sams has made mistakes. His fumble and INT stats speak for themselves. The question is whether he's a better option for this season and for the next 2 years?
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Ok, _Fan, I’ve been doing some analysis and here’s what I came up with: When you take out all the bad things that happen when Sams is in the game, he has a 100% completion percentage, 4 TD’s to ZERO INT’s, and rushed for 8TD’s.
Now, my analysis is a bit incomplete as I haven’t had the opportunity to go back and count the yardage that he would have had if his stupid receivers hadn’t dropped the ball and I haven’t been able to go back and add the touchdowns we would have scored had he not turned it over, but based on what I can tell, if you strip away any adversity, Sams is our guy.
It's not a question of whether Sams has made mistakes. His fumble and INT stats speak for themselves. The question is whether he's a better option for this season and for the next 2 years?
well, let's just hope that TBL and TT are here for the next two years and that no adversity or anything bad happens.
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I believe Sams can be Roberson. I want him to be Roberson. The similarities are ridiculous. especially within the context of their SO seasons.
Robersons (6'1, 209 lbs) SO stats:
Passing: 54 of 136 (39.7%) (YPA 6.3), 855 yds, 4 TD/8 INTs. Rushing: 142 attempts, 643 yds (4.5 avg), 9TDs.
Sams (6'2, 207 lbs) SO stats through 2/3 of season:
Passing: 34 of 45 (75.6%) (YPA 9.29), 418 yds, 4 TD/4 INTs. Rushing: 113 attempts, 595 yds (5.3 avg), 8 TDs.
He's got every bit of upside as Roberson and, of course, he's making the same mistakes Roberson made as a SO. Give him the keys to the car. Don't sacrifice the future.
That makes Sams look way way better than Ell. :sdeek:
Yes it does. And, assuming he makes the improvements that Roberson made between SO and JR years (big assumption, granted), '14, '15 could be pretty special seasons.
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No, no, no, didn't you listen to waters_FAN? There is no comparison between Roberson and Sams, or 2002 and what 2014 could be, because Marc Dunn played a lot after Roberson got hurt!
To be fair, michigancat made better points than me that favored the fact that there was a legitimate quarterback competition (and carousel) for most of the 2001 season.
No he didn't. A&M was Roberson's first game off of injury, so he was undoubtedly still slowed. Then he got hurt again later in the year. The bowl was the only head scratcher for the QB slot that year. There was no controversy.
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Ok, _Fan, I’ve been doing some analysis and here’s what I came up with: When you take out all the bad things that happen when Sams is in the game, he has a 100% completion percentage, 4 TD’s to ZERO INT’s, and rushed for 8TD’s.
Now, my analysis is a bit incomplete as I haven’t had the opportunity to go back and count the yardage that he would have had if his stupid receivers hadn’t dropped the ball and I haven’t been able to go back and add the touchdowns we would have scored had he not turned it over, but based on what I can tell, if you strip away any adversity, Sams is our guy.
It's not a question of whether Sams has made mistakes. His fumble and INT stats speak for themselves. The question is whether he's a better option for this season and for the next 2 years?
well, let's just hope that TBL and TT are here for the next two years and that no adversity or anything bad happens.
wha?
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Yeah, complaining about the fumble or who the wr's were really aren't necessary and give Waters_FAN and Waterszacker an easy out.
Sams wins out for any rational person regardless.
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I believe Sams can be Roberson. I want him to be Roberson. The similarities are ridiculous. especially within the context of their SO seasons.
Robersons (6'1, 209 lbs) SO stats:
Passing: 54 of 136 (39.7%) (YPA 6.3), 855 yds, 4 TD/8 INTs. Rushing: 142 attempts, 643 yds (4.5 avg), 9TDs.
Sams (6'2, 207 lbs) SO stats through 2/3 of season:
Passing: 34 of 45 (75.6%) (YPA 9.29), 418 yds, 4 TD/4 INTs. Rushing: 113 attempts, 595 yds (5.3 avg), 8 TDs.
He's got every bit of upside as Roberson and, of course, he's making the same mistakes Roberson made as a SO. Give him the keys to the car. Don't sacrifice the future.
That makes Sams look way way better than Ell. :sdeek:
Even tho the stats don't show it, I think of Ell as the more explosive player than Sams both running and throwing. If anything, Sams accuracy on short and intermediate passes is more desirable in today's Big 12 than Ell's ability to throw downfield.
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Yeah, complaining about the fumble or who the wr's were really aren't necessary and give Waters_FAN and Waterszacker an easy out.
Thanks MichiSAMScat. I appreciate it.
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Ok, _Fan, I’ve been doing some analysis and here’s what I came up with: When you take out all the bad things that happen when Sams is in the game, he has a 100% completion percentage, 4 TD’s to ZERO INT’s, and rushed for 8TD’s.
Now, my analysis is a bit incomplete as I haven’t had the opportunity to go back and count the yardage that he would have had if his stupid receivers hadn’t dropped the ball and I haven’t been able to go back and add the touchdowns we would have scored had he not turned it over, but based on what I can tell, if you strip away any adversity, Sams is our guy.
It's not a question of whether Sams has made mistakes. His fumble and INT stats speak for themselves. The question is whether he's a better option for this season and for the next 2 years?
well, let's just hope that TBL and TT are here for the next two years and that no adversity or anything bad happens.
stats show he's the better QB either way. But the fumble should absolutely be counted. and all his INTs. and anything else that actually happened. people saying that the fumble shouldn't count sound like people saying Waters' INTs the first few games (which _FAN says don't count) shouldn't be counted because Terrell sucks.
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Even tho the stats don't show it, I think of Ell as the more explosive player than Sams both running and throwing. If anything, Sams accuracy on short and intermediate passes is more desirable in today's Big 12 than Ell's ability to throw downfield.
I agree completely with this, though it would be nice if he could get a few more deep throws. The late fade to Thompson was nice, though that ball was underthrown too, leading to a fantastic catch and pass interference.
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It's like 2 job candidates walk in for a job interview at a widget factory. They're both fairly comparable in a lot of respects. one candidate is younger and has worked at the factory for a few years and is better at making widgets. The other candidate is older, closer to retirement and came from a different factory that doesn't manufacture widgets. both have missed a few days of work and mumped up a few things on the assembly line. You've got to hire one of them.
I mean, no brainer, right?
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I believe Sams can be Roberson. I want him to be Roberson. The similarities are ridiculous. especially within the context of their SO seasons.
Robersons (6'1, 209 lbs) SO stats:
Passing: 54 of 136 (39.7%) (YPA 6.3), 855 yds, 4 TD/8 INTs. Rushing: 142 attempts, 643 yds (4.5 avg), 9TDs.
Sams (6'2, 207 lbs) SO stats through 2/3 of season:
Passing: 34 of 45 (75.6%) (YPA 9.29), 418 yds, 4 TD/4 INTs. Rushing: 113 attempts, 595 yds (5.3 avg), 8 TDs.
He's got every bit of upside as Roberson and, of course, he's making the same mistakes Roberson made as a SO. Give him the keys to the car. Don't sacrifice the future.
That makes Sams look way way better than Ell. :sdeek:
Even tho the stats don't show it, I think of Ell as the more explosive player than Sams both running and throwing. If anything, Sams accuracy on short and intermediate passes is more desirable in today's Big 12 than Ell's ability to throw downfield.
You're right, the stats don't show it.
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It's like 2 job candidates walk in for a job interview at a widget factory. They're both fairly comparable in a lot of respects. one candidate is younger and has worked at the factory for a few years and is better at making widgets. The other candidate is older, closer to retirement and came from a different factory that doesn't manufacture widgets. both have missed a few days of work and mumped up a few things on the assembly line. You've got to hire one of them.
I mean, no brainer, right?
have either lost a huge contract to a D2 widget factory?
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Agree with SD. The certain TOs don't count or Waters was really 6-15 last game are bad arguments. Waters was close enough to be effective on those throws and every Sams completion wasn't perfect if we're discounting things. I think the decision should be based on stats and facts.
Stats and Facts say we should be Sams' Club
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I believe Sams can be Roberson. I want him to be Roberson. The similarities are ridiculous. especially within the context of their SO seasons.
Robersons (6'1, 209 lbs) SO stats:
Passing: 54 of 136 (39.7%) (YPA 6.3), 855 yds, 4 TD/8 INTs. Rushing: 142 attempts, 643 yds (4.5 avg), 9TDs.
Sams (6'2, 207 lbs) SO stats through 2/3 of season:
Passing: 34 of 45 (75.6%) (YPA 9.29), 418 yds, 4 TD/4 INTs. Rushing: 113 attempts, 595 yds (5.3 avg), 8 TDs.
He's got every bit of upside as Roberson and, of course, he's making the same mistakes Roberson made as a SO. Give him the keys to the car. Don't sacrifice the future.
That makes Sams look way way better than Ell. :sdeek:
Even tho the stats don't show it, I think of Ell as the more explosive player than Sams both running and throwing. If anything, Sams accuracy on short and intermediate passes is more desirable in today's Big 12 than Ell's ability to throw downfield.
You're right, the stats don't show it.
:thumbs:
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Let's all not forget that KU is still on the schedule at this point. Given the keys to the Town Car, Sams could basically shatter all of Ell's SO stats in that game, alone.
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Let's all not forget that KU is still on the schedule at this point. Given the keys to the Town Car, Sams could basically shatter all of Ell's SO stats in that game, alone.
that will be prime opportunities for Waters' downfield passing that Bill is way too fond of, though.
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It's like 2 job candidates walk in for a job interview at a widget factory. They're both fairly comparable in a lot of respects. one candidate is younger and has worked at the factory for a few years and is better at making widgets. The other candidate is older, closer to retirement and came from a different factory that doesn't manufacture widgets. both have missed a few days of work and mumped up a few things on the assembly line. You've got to hire one of them.
I mean, no brainer, right?
have either lost a huge contract to a D2 widget factory?
Does one successfully build a widget 86% more often than the other? That's the guy I would hire if so. I don't really care about which one is older.
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I believe Sams can be Roberson. I want him to be Roberson. The similarities are ridiculous. especially within the context of their SO seasons.
Robersons (6'1, 209 lbs) SO stats:
Passing: 54 of 136 (39.7%) (YPA 6.3), 855 yds, 4 TD/8 INTs. Rushing: 142 attempts, 643 yds (4.5 avg), 9TDs.
Sams (6'2, 207 lbs) SO stats through 2/3 of season:
Passing: 34 of 45 (75.6%) (YPA 9.29), 418 yds, 4 TD/4 INTs. Rushing: 113 attempts, 595 yds (5.3 avg), 8 TDs.
He's got every bit of upside as Roberson and, of course, he's making the same mistakes Roberson made as a SO. Give him the keys to the car. Don't sacrifice the future.
That makes Sams look way way better than Ell. :sdeek:
Even tho the stats don't show it, I think of Ell as the more explosive player than Sams both running and throwing. If anything, Sams accuracy on short and intermediate passes is more desirable in today's Big 12 than Ell's ability to throw downfield.
You're right, the stats don't show it.
:thumbs:
Ell in 2001 was 15.8 yds/completion (Sams is 9.3) which fits better with my memories of laser rocket strikes to Brandon Clark and Ricky Lloyd in Norman.
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Ell didn't complete passes very often, though.
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Sams is 12.3 YPC.
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I don't really care about which one is older.
Of course you do. or, at least, you should. If they're both equal, hypothetically, you'd hire the guy who's gonna be there for 2 years instead of just 1 year.
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I can't believe you went to all that trouble just to stay on the fence.
I haven't read it yet but this already makes me :frown:
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I don't really care about which one is older.
Of course you do. or, at least, you should. If they're both equal, hypothetically, you'd hire the guy who's gonna be there for 2 years instead of just 1 year.
They aren't equal at all, though.
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Sams is 12.3 YPC.
oops. Not quite as dramatic a diff.
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THANKS _FAN! GOOD STUFF!
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I can't believe you went to all that trouble just to stay on the fence.
I haven't read it yet but this already makes me :frown:
don't be sad. _FAN decided he was going to be on the fence before he even looked at the data (which favored our guy).
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Ell didn't complete passes very often, though.
Ell wasn't gifted with stud receivers either
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Ell didn't complete passes very often, though.
Ell wasn't gifted with stud receivers either
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=29673.msg953733#msg953733
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every important stat points to our guy daniel being the better option even after the compiler of the stats removes jakes worst game and ignores the snaps without our only two playmaking WRs against by far our best competition.....
I'm on the fence, both basically equal
:lol:
I believe I stated the premise was to compare each in Big 12 play, and given that they played equal snaps I think the comparison is fair. Plus, as sd said, the numbers don't bend toward Waters anyway. As for the games without Thompson/Lockett, there isn't much I can do about that. I gave you the drive% for each QB in this thread without them, so I think the comparison still has some validity.
I agree that the fumble vs OSU was questionable, but the play was reviewed and upheld, so it still counts.
Also, I said in the blog post that the numbers favor Sams, just not enough for me to get off the fence on the dual QB show at this point.
Just how much better would Sams' stats have to be than Waters' for you to get off the fence? 100%? 200%?
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I don't really care about which one is older.
Of course you do. or, at least, you should. If they're both equal, hypothetically, you'd hire the guy who's gonna be there for 2 years instead of just 1 year.
They aren't equal at all, though.
I understand this. But, for those people suggesting that Snake and Sams are essentially, statistically equal, it seems that age should be the deciding factor. I mean, if I've got the choice between 2 honda civics and one has 75,000 miles and the other has 120,000 miles, I'm taking the lower mileage vehicle.
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I don't really care about which one is older.
Of course you do. or, at least, you should. If they're both equal, hypothetically, you'd hire the guy who's gonna be there for 2 years instead of just 1 year.
They aren't equal at all, though.
I understand this. But, for those people suggesting that Snake and Sams are essentially, statistically equal, it seems that age should be the deciding factor. I mean, if I've got the choice between 2 honda civics and one has 75,000 miles and the other has 120,000 miles, I'm taking the lower mileage vehicle.
People who insist that are not able to look at data and think rationally, so no argument is going to make any difference.
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I can't believe you went to all that trouble just to stay on the fence.
I haven't read it yet but this already makes me :frown:
don't be sad. _FAN decided he was going to be on the fence before he even looked at the data (which favored our guy).
Yeah I know, I just wish he would pick a side just this once because I think it's the most interesting thing about this season, but I sense it's against his personality.
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every important stat points to our guy daniel being the better option even after the compiler of the stats removes jakes worst game and ignores the snaps without our only two playmaking WRs against by far our best competition.....
I'm on the fence, both basically equal
:lol:
I believe I stated the premise was to compare each in Big 12 play, and given that they played equal snaps I think the comparison is fair. Plus, as sd said, the numbers don't bend toward Waters anyway. As for the games without Thompson/Lockett, there isn't much I can do about that. I gave you the drive% for each QB in this thread without them, so I think the comparison still has some validity.
I agree that the fumble vs OSU was questionable, but the play was reviewed and upheld, so it still counts.
Also, I said in the blog post that the numbers favor Sams, just not enough for me to get off the fence on the dual QB show at this point.
Just how much better would Sams' stats have to be than Waters' for you to get off the fence? 100%? 200%?
I'd be more comfortable with Sams taking the job if he had shown a better ability to get the ball downfield without throwing picks. As it stands right now, the defense can basically stack the box on every play because he hasn't shown a consistent ability to beat them deep (or even the threat of beating them deep, most of his deep passes have been VERY dangerous). That is going to make things awful tough for #life if he's going be playing 100% of the snaps. I'd rather Jake come in for a few drives every game, albeit less drives than he's currently getting, to exploit weaknesses in the other team's secondary (I haven't really noticed any teams in the Big XII with a great secondary, I think all of them are vulnerable, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).
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I understand this. But, for those people suggesting that Snake and Sams are essentially, statistically equal, it seems that age should be the deciding factor. I mean, if I've got the choice between 2 honda civics and one has 75,000 miles and the other has 120,000 miles, I'm taking the lower mileage vehicle.
People who insist that are not able to look at data and think rationally, so no argument is going to make any difference.
I'm going to continue fighting the good fight, tho, b/c _Fan is typically rational, HFBIQ.
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every important stat points to our guy daniel being the better option even after the compiler of the stats removes jakes worst game and ignores the snaps without our only two playmaking WRs against by far our best competition.....
I'm on the fence, both basically equal
:lol:
I believe I stated the premise was to compare each in Big 12 play, and given that they played equal snaps I think the comparison is fair. Plus, as sd said, the numbers don't bend toward Waters anyway. As for the games without Thompson/Lockett, there isn't much I can do about that. I gave you the drive% for each QB in this thread without them, so I think the comparison still has some validity.
I agree that the fumble vs OSU was questionable, but the play was reviewed and upheld, so it still counts.
Also, I said in the blog post that the numbers favor Sams, just not enough for me to get off the fence on the dual QB show at this point.
Just how much better would Sams' stats have to be than Waters' for you to get off the fence? 100%? 200%?
I'd be more comfortable with Sams taking the job if he had shown a better ability to get the ball downfield without throwing picks. As it stands right now, the defense can basically stack the box on every play because he hasn't shown a consistent ability to beat them deep (or even the threat of beating them deep, most of his deep passes have been VERY dangerous).
Oddly enough that hasn't hurt his overall production. (points)
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I also think you can keep defenses honest without throwing bombs all day.
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The only times that Sams has looked bad all year have been when the defense is not stacking the box.
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_FAN, just to be sure, your drive charts aren't counting drives that end with QB kneels are they?
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every important stat points to our guy daniel being the better option even after the compiler of the stats removes jakes worst game and ignores the snaps without our only two playmaking WRs against by far our best competition.....
I'm on the fence, both basically equal
:lol:
I believe I stated the premise was to compare each in Big 12 play, and given that they played equal snaps I think the comparison is fair. Plus, as sd said, the numbers don't bend toward Waters anyway. As for the games without Thompson/Lockett, there isn't much I can do about that. I gave you the drive% for each QB in this thread without them, so I think the comparison still has some validity.
I agree that the fumble vs OSU was questionable, but the play was reviewed and upheld, so it still counts.
Also, I said in the blog post that the numbers favor Sams, just not enough for me to get off the fence on the dual QB show at this point.
Just how much better would Sams' stats have to be than Waters' for you to get off the fence? 100%? 200%?
I'd be more comfortable with Sams taking the job if he had shown a better ability to get the ball downfield without throwing picks. As it stands right now, the defense can basically stack the box on every play because he hasn't shown a consistent ability to beat them deep (or even the threat of beating them deep, most of his deep passes have been VERY dangerous).
Oddly enough that hasn't hurt his overall production. (points)
Right, and even IF you were uncomfortable with Sams' ability to throw deep currently, where is he going to get better at that: on the sidelines, or in the game?
Where is a more valuable spot for him when looking ahead to 2014-15?
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I also think you can keep defenses honest without throwing bombs all day.
You don't have to throw bombs all day, but you have to have the threat of going deep to loosen up the defense, or at least that would be ideal. With the way it stands, #life is more likely to throw a pick on a deep route than make a completion. I'd like to see more #life, but I think we'd see diminishing returns if we started him every game, and he played every snap over a several week period, without the threat of stretching the field vertically. Opposing coaches catch onto those sort of things.
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I also think you can keep defenses honest without throwing bombs all day.
You don't have to throw bombs all day, but you have to have the threat of going deep to loosen up the defense, or at least that would be ideal. With the way it stands, #life is more likely to throw a pick on a deep route than make a completion. I'd like to see more #life, but I think we'd see diminishing returns if we started him every game, and he played every snap over a several week period, without the threat of stretching the field vertically. Opposing coaches catch onto those sort of things.
They defend him just like they defended Klein. How did that work out for them?
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The only times that Sams has looked bad all year have been when the defense is not stacking the box.
That seems to be true when we were trying to "pass to win" in late game situations. I don't think that would hold up at all during the course of a game.
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I also think you can keep defenses honest without throwing bombs all day.
You don't have to throw bombs all day, but you have to have the threat of going deep to loosen up the defense, or at least that would be ideal. With the way it stands, #life is more likely to throw a pick on a deep route than make a completion. I'd like to see more #life, but I think we'd see diminishing returns if we started him every game, and he played every snap over a several week period, without the threat of stretching the field vertically. Opposing coaches catch onto those sort of things.
They defend him just like they defended Klein. How did that work out for them?
Klein had the ability, no matter how aesthetically displeasing it was, to complete a few passes downfield each game without throwing dangerous passes very often. Sams hasn't shown that ability yet.
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The only times that Sams has looked bad all year have been when the defense is not stacking the box.
That seems to be true when we were trying to "pass to win" in late game situations. I don't think that would hold up at all during the course of a game.
I agree that he would run wild if the box weren't stacked, but he is still leading us to points at a high rate and completing more than 75% of his passes, mostly because the box is stacked. He was able to underthrow Thompson on a deep ball to the endzone, and the defender's only play was to tackle Thompson before the ball arrived. That defender doesn't get burned if he isn't thinking run first and that pass probably isn't completed, but it doesn't matter because as long as Sams is able to make teams pay on the ground, even when they have 8 in the box, the passing game will be there. We only really run into trouble with Sams when the defense can go away from stacking the box, and Sams has to throw passes anyway because we don't have time to run. If Waters sits out the OSU and Baylor games completely, we most likely have more points and are not in that situation in the first place.
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I also think you can keep defenses honest without throwing bombs all day.
You don't have to throw bombs all day, but you have to have the threat of going deep to loosen up the defense, or at least that would be ideal. With the way it stands, #life is more likely to throw a pick on a deep route than make a completion. I'd like to see more #life, but I think we'd see diminishing returns if we started him every game, and he played every snap over a several week period, without the threat of stretching the field vertically. Opposing coaches catch onto those sort of things.
They defend him just like they defended Klein. How did that work out for them?
Klein had the ability, no matter how aesthetically displeasing it was, to complete a few passes downfield each game without throwing dangerous passes very often. Sams hasn't shown that ability yet.
Klein completed a lower percentage of passes, with less yards per attempt, in his best year than Sams has in this, his sophomore year.
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OT: Have we thrown any screen passes lately? I seem to remember them more during Snyder I.
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I also think you can keep defenses honest without throwing bombs all day.
You don't have to throw bombs all day, but you have to have the threat of going deep to loosen up the defense, or at least that would be ideal. With the way it stands, #life is more likely to throw a pick on a deep route than make a completion. I'd like to see more #life, but I think we'd see diminishing returns if we started him every game, and he played every snap over a several week period, without the threat of stretching the field vertically. Opposing coaches catch onto those sort of things.
They defend him just like they defended Klein. How did that work out for them?
Klein had the ability, no matter how aesthetically displeasing it was, to complete a few passes downfield each game without throwing dangerous passes very often. Sams hasn't shown that ability yet.
Klein completed a lower percentage of passes, with less yards per attempt, in his best year than Sams has in this, his sophomore year.
:sdeek:
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I don't really care about which one is older.
Of course you do. or, at least, you should. If they're both equal, hypothetically, you'd hire the guy who's gonna be there for 2 years instead of just 1 year.
They aren't equal at all, though.
I understand this. But, for those people suggesting that Snake and Sams are essentially, statistically equal, it seems that age should be the deciding factor. I mean, if I've got the choice between 2 honda civics and one has 75,000 miles and the other has 120,000 miles, I'm taking the lower mileage vehicle.
But what if the one with 75,000 miles ran out of gas one time, and the one with 120,000 miles steers itself into garbage trucks?
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I also think you can keep defenses honest without throwing bombs all day.
You don't have to throw bombs all day, but you have to have the threat of going deep to loosen up the defense, or at least that would be ideal. With the way it stands, #life is more likely to throw a pick on a deep route than make a completion. I'd like to see more #life, but I think we'd see diminishing returns if we started him every game, and he played every snap over a several week period, without the threat of stretching the field vertically. Opposing coaches catch onto those sort of things.
They defend him just like they defended Klein. How did that work out for them?
Klein had the ability, no matter how aesthetically displeasing it was, to complete a few passes downfield each game without throwing dangerous passes very often. Sams hasn't shown that ability yet.
yeah but how many stop and break off the routes and come back to an under thrown ball did our core have last year? answer is a rough ridin' lot
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I also think you can keep defenses honest without throwing bombs all day.
You don't have to throw bombs all day, but you have to have the threat of going deep to loosen up the defense, or at least that would be ideal. With the way it stands, #life is more likely to throw a pick on a deep route than make a completion. I'd like to see more #life, but I think we'd see diminishing returns if we started him every game, and he played every snap over a several week period, without the threat of stretching the field vertically. Opposing coaches catch onto those sort of things.
They defend him just like they defended Klein. How did that work out for them?
Klein had the ability, no matter how aesthetically displeasing it was, to complete a few passes downfield each game without throwing dangerous passes very often. Sams hasn't shown that ability yet.
Klein completed a lower percentage of passes, with less yards per attempt, in his best year than Sams has in this, his sophomore year.
what was klein's TO/attempt? what was KSU's record when klein received the majority of the snaps? were TBL and TT there for every snap?
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I also think you can keep defenses honest without throwing bombs all day.
You don't have to throw bombs all day, but you have to have the threat of going deep to loosen up the defense, or at least that would be ideal. With the way it stands, #life is more likely to throw a pick on a deep route than make a completion. I'd like to see more #life, but I think we'd see diminishing returns if we started him every game, and he played every snap over a several week period, without the threat of stretching the field vertically. Opposing coaches catch onto those sort of things.
They defend him just like they defended Klein. How did that work out for them?
Klein had the ability, no matter how aesthetically displeasing it was, to complete a few passes downfield each game without throwing dangerous passes very often. Sams hasn't shown that ability yet.
Klein completed a lower percentage of passes, with less yards per attempt, in his best year than Sams has in this, his sophomore year.
I think that's a case of stats hiding the truth. I can really only remember one deep pass from Sams this year that was completed (it cant be many, he only has three 30+ yard plays on the year). Klein had quite a few of those his last two years, along with a bunch of dink and dunk passes which lowered his yards per attempt.
The only times that Sams has looked bad all year have been when the defense is not stacking the box.
That seems to be true when we were trying to "pass to win" in late game situations. I don't think that would hold up at all during the course of a game.
I agree that he would run wild if the box weren't stacked, but he is still leading us to points at a high rate and completing more than 75% of his passes, mostly because the box is stacked. He was able to underthrow Thompson on a deep ball to the endzone, and the defender's only play was to tackle Thompson before the ball arrived. That defender doesn't get burned if he isn't thinking run first and that pass probably isn't completed, but it doesn't matter because as long as Sams is able to make teams pay on the ground, even when they have 8 in the box, the passing game will be there. We only really run into trouble with Sams when the defense can go away from stacking the box, and Sams has to throw passes anyway because we don't have time to run. If Waters sits out the OSU and Baylor games completely, we most likely have more points and are not in that situation in the first place.
I agree with most of this, but you can really only maximize your advantage regarding the other team's commitment to stop the run IF you are able to hit on those downfield passes. #life hasn't done that very well. Also, I think Waters is playing much better at times than he was during the OSU and BU games. I still think he needs to see the field this year, just not when he gets into those 3-and-out ruts. Time for Bill to have a quicker hook.
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What would our record be if Waters was the QB 100% of the time? no better than 4-4.
What would our record be if Same was the QB 100% of the time? no worse than 4-4.
[end thread]
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I'm going to continue fighting the good fight, tho, b/c _Fan is typically rational, HFBIQ.
I'm probably overly rational, but I try not to look at any position on the field in a vacuum, though quarterback is probably the most difficult. The numbers are and should be the most important indicator in evaluating the quarterback, but I also know there are other factors that we as fans don't/can't see or know that go into the evaluations of each position. I'm not trying to make this a "Snyder has forgotten more about football than any of us know" thing, but I can't help but factor in this unknown side based on what I've seen, particularly in how Snyder and his staff rotates these 2 guys in and out of games. Also, I've come to accept that Snyder is going to continue to play both guys unless one guy does something fantastic to stand out. Even then, he will probably keep the competition intact like he did with Roberson and Dunn.
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Klein completed a lower percentage of passes, with less yards per attempt, in his best year than Sams has in this, his sophomore year.
what was klein's TO/attempt? what was KSU's record when klein received the majority of the snaps? were TBL and TT there for every snap?
The turnovers are a fair point. The record is not. Sams has only received the majority of the snaps against the 2 best teams in the league, and he lost series to Waters in both games that resulted in quick punts and/or turnovers inside K-State's 10 yard line. I think TBL and TT, as well as Harper, were there for every snap in 2012, but I might be wrong. Of course that is offset by TBL and TT not being quite as good in 2012 as they are in 2013.
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_FAN, just to be sure, your drive charts aren't counting drives that end with QB kneels are they?
No, I threw out drives at the end of halves/games where it was clear we weren't trying to score.
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I agree with most of this, but you can really only maximize your advantage regarding the other team's commitment to stop the run IF you are able to hit on those downfield passes. #life hasn't done that very well. Also, I think Waters is playing much better at times than he was during the OSU and BU games. I still think he needs to see the field this year, just not when he gets into those 3-and-out ruts. Time for Bill to have a quicker hook.
Level of competition tho.
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I agree with most of this, but you can really only maximize your advantage regarding the other team's commitment to stop the run IF you are able to hit on those downfield passes. #life hasn't done that very well. Also, I think Waters is playing much better at times than he was during the OSU and BU games. I still think he needs to see the field this year, just not when he gets into those 3-and-out ruts. Time for Bill to have a quicker hook.
Level of competition tho.
For sure. If Waters comes out and shits his pants against Tech, then I'll have to rethink my presuppositions. That's assuming that Sams also doesn't crash and burn against Tech.
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A few other things...
In the 5 Big 12 games, K-State has called 4 timeouts with Waters playing and 12 with Sams.
In the 2 Big 12 wins, Sams played 58 snaps and gained 313 yards, 5.4 yards per snap. One play longer than 20 yards.
In the 2 Big 12 wins, Waters played 68 snaps and gained 587 yards, 8.6 yards per snap. 11 plays longer than 20 yards and 5 longer than 30.
That's probably a little bit why I tempered from being full Sams after OSU/Baylor, maybe that's not fair to Sams. :dunno:
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I'm going to continue fighting the good fight, tho, b/c _Fan is typically rational, HFBIQ.
I'm probably overly rational, but I try not to look at any position on the field in a vacuum, though quarterback is probably the most difficult. The numbers are and should be the most important indicator in evaluating the quarterback, but I also know there are other factors that we as fans don't/can't see or know that go into the evaluations of each position. I'm not trying to make this a "Snyder has forgotten more about football than any of us know" thing, but I can't help but factor in this unknown side based on what I've seen, particularly in how Snyder and his staff rotates these 2 guys in and out of games. Also, I've come to accept that Snyder is going to continue to play both guys unless one guy does something fantastic to stand out. Even then, he will probably keep the competition intact like he did with Roberson and Dunn.
I've seen bill lose us plenty of games because he refuses to play the superior player. sitting here quietly accepting it just because I know bill isn't going to magically quit being a dumbass doesn't appeal to me. I'm going to keep calling him a dumbass for it until he stops or one of us dies.
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I'm going to continue fighting the good fight, tho, b/c _Fan is typically rational, HFBIQ.
I'm probably overly rational, but I try not to look at any position on the field in a vacuum, though quarterback is probably the most difficult. The numbers are and should be the most important indicator in evaluating the quarterback, but I also know there are other factors that we as fans don't/can't see or know that go into the evaluations of each position. I'm not trying to make this a "Snyder has forgotten more about football than any of us know" thing, but I can't help but factor in this unknown side based on what I've seen, particularly in how Snyder and his staff rotates these 2 guys in and out of games. Also, I've come to accept that Snyder is going to continue to play both guys unless one guy does something fantastic to stand out. Even then, he will probably keep the competition intact like he did with Roberson and Dunn.
I've seen bill lose us plenty of games because he refuses to play the superior player. sitting here quietly accepting it just because I know bill isn't going to magically quit being a dumbass doesn't appeal to me. I'm going to keep calling him a dumbass for it until he stops or one of us dies.
Yeah, I don't think ignoring the stats (points) for something the "fans don't/can't see" is very rational. JMO.
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Waters gets more snaps with Hubert than Sams, which is significant I think. Sams is always (stuck) with Gronk, whom the defense knows isn't going to run the ball.
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Yeah, I don't think ignoring the stats (points) for something the "fans don't/can't see" is very rational. JMO.
Perhaps, but its practical. Maybe its part of the over-analysis coaches do, but they don't spend 80+ hours a week and have all those practices for the hell of it.
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Yeah, I don't think ignoring the stats (points) for something the "fans don't/can't see" is very rational. JMO.
Perhaps, but its practical. Maybe its part of the over-analysis coaches do, but they don't spend 80+ hours a week and have all those practices for the hell of it.
How is it practical?
And I honestly think Snyder does spend more time than necessary over-analyzing just for the hell of it.
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To me, there is no question that Sams should be our QB anytime we get within the opponents 15-20 yard line.
I think they should split snaps outside of that.
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A few other things...
In the 5 Big 12 games, K-State has called 4 timeouts with Waters playing and 12 with Sams.
In the 2 Big 12 wins, Sams played 58 snaps and gained 313 yards, 5.4 yards per snap. One play longer than 20 yards.
In the 2 Big 12 wins, Waters played 68 snaps and gained 587 yards, 8.6 yards per snap. 11 plays longer than 20 yards and 5 longer than 30.
That's probably a little bit why I tempered from being full Sams after OSU/Baylor, maybe that's not fair to Sams. :dunno:
welp, if ayone wants me, I'll up up here with my best bud _Fan just hanging out.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.featurepics.com%2FFI%2FThumb300%2F20060916%2FCats_Fence91150.jpg&hash=65456c108c5b317f92e45eb7b5bfb997e50e516d)
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Yeah, I don't think ignoring the stats (points) for something the "fans don't/can't see" is very rational. JMO.
Perhaps, but its practical. Maybe its part of the over-analysis coaches do, but they don't spend 80+ hours a week and have all those practices for the hell of it.
How is it practical?
And I honestly think Snyder does spend more time than necessary over-analyzing just for the hell of it.
his car's always in the parking lot rus. he doesn't eat until midnight.
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Our coaching staff is awful and they want Sams to fail apparently.
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What would our record be if Waters was the QB 100% of the time? no better than 4-4.
What would our record be if Sams was the QB 100% of the time? no worse than 4-4.
[end thread]
Correct. Also, the second situation bodes far better for 2014-15. FAR BETTER.
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Our coaching staff is awful and they want Sams to fail apparently.
well, I'd personally be 6-2 (at min.) right now as HC and I want us to do well. maybe I just love KSU more than anyone in the world, tho?
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Yeah, I don't think ignoring the stats (points) for something the "fans don't/can't see" is very rational. JMO.
Perhaps, but its practical. Maybe its part of the over-analysis coaches do, but they don't spend 80+ hours a week and have all those practices for the hell of it.
How is it practical?
And I honestly think Snyder does spend more time than necessary over-analyzing just for the hell of it.
his car's always in the parking lot rus. he doesn't eat until midnight.
he tried to get hypnotized so he could live off 3 hours of sleep a night so you think you know more about time management than LHC Bill Snyder you ungrateful prick?
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Yeah, I don't think ignoring the stats (points) for something the "fans don't/can't see" is very rational. JMO.
Perhaps, but its practical. Maybe its part of the over-analysis coaches do, but they don't spend 80+ hours a week and have all those practices for the hell of it.
How is it practical?
And I honestly think Snyder does spend more time than necessary over-analyzing just for the hell of it.
his car's always in the parking lot rus. he doesn't eat until midnight.
he tried to get hypnotized so he could live off 3 hours of sleep a night so you think you know more about time management than LHC Bill Snyder you ungrateful prick?
the stats don't show it but it's pretty clear that bill knows something we don't or else sams would be playing. YOU THINK YOU KNOW MORE THAN HIM ABOUT FOOTBALL?
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Yeah, I don't think ignoring the stats (points) for something the "fans don't/can't see" is very rational. JMO.
Perhaps, but its practical. Maybe its part of the over-analysis coaches do, but they don't spend 80+ hours a week and have all those practices for the hell of it.
How is it practical?
And I honestly think Snyder does spend more time than necessary over-analyzing just for the hell of it.
his car's always in the parking lot rus. he doesn't eat until midnight.
he tried to get hypnotized so he could live off 3 hours of sleep a night so you think you know more about time management than LHC Bill Snyder you ungrateful prick?
the stats don't show it but it's pretty clear that bill knows something we don't or else sams would be playing. YOU THINK YOU KNOW MORE THAN HIM ABOUT FOOTBALL?
I bet Rusty eats gets his butter from a tub and sits on the sunny side of the plane. :lol:
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Thread: derailed.
But before we let it fall off the front page, please retitle it "It's all Waters under the bridge for _FAN."
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Talk about over-analysis.
Waters is the thrower. Sams is the runner. Snyder is working on fusing them Dragon Ball Z style, but they can't get the dance right.
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Thread: derailed.
But before we let it fall off the front page, please retitle it "It's all Waters under the bridge for _FAN."
I don't think Waters should get 100% of the snaps and I wouldn't like that at all.
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I don't think Waters should get 100% of the snaps and I wouldn't like that at all.
Which would you like more: Waters 100% snaps. Sams 100% snaps. Who would have the better record?
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I don't think Waters should get 100% of the snaps and I wouldn't like that at all.
Which would you like more: Waters 100% snaps. Sams 100% snaps. Who would have the better record?
Honestly, had Sams been healthy all fall and played more vs NDSU I think we have 1 more win. Maybe 2, but I don't think either guy would've taken over the spot by this point regardless.
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I'm going to continue fighting the good fight, tho, b/c _Fan is typically rational, HFBIQ.
I'm probably overly rational, but I try not to look at any position on the field in a vacuum, though quarterback is probably the most difficult. The numbers are and should be the most important indicator in evaluating the quarterback, but I also know there are other factors that we as fans don't/can't see or know that go into the evaluations of each position. I'm not trying to make this a "Snyder has forgotten more about football than any of us know" thing, but I can't help but factor in this unknown side based on what I've seen, particularly in how Snyder and his staff rotates these 2 guys in and out of games. Also, I've come to accept that Snyder is going to continue to play both guys unless one guy does something fantastic to stand out. Even then, he will probably keep the competition intact like he did with Roberson and Dunn.
Anything that gets Sams on the field more helps this team out. It's time to just take what you can get.
yes, everyone just give up and accept it. good life lesson here. FOR rough ridin' IDIOTS!
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I'm going to continue fighting the good fight, tho, b/c _Fan is typically rational, HFBIQ.
I'm probably overly rational, but I try not to look at any position on the field in a vacuum, though quarterback is probably the most difficult. The numbers are and should be the most important indicator in evaluating the quarterback, but I also know there are other factors that we as fans don't/can't see or know that go into the evaluations of each position. I'm not trying to make this a "Snyder has forgotten more about football than any of us know" thing, but I can't help but factor in this unknown side based on what I've seen, particularly in how Snyder and his staff rotates these 2 guys in and out of games. Also, I've come to accept that Snyder is going to continue to play both guys unless one guy does something fantastic to stand out. Even then, he will probably keep the competition intact like he did with Roberson and Dunn.
:dubious:
Anything that gets Sams on the field more helps this team out. It's time to just take what you can get.
yes, everyone just give up and accept it. good life lesson here. FOR rough ridin' IDIOTS!
good steve dave post right there. I forget how good I can message board sometimes.
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I don't think Waters should get 100% of the snaps and I wouldn't like that at all.
Which would you like more: Waters 100% snaps. Sams 100% snaps. Who would have the better record?
Honestly, had Sams been healthy all fall and played more vs NDSU I think we have 1 more win. Maybe 2, but I don't think either guy would've taken over the spot by this point regardless.
I don't think we would have beaten ISU if we didn't have Sams to come into the game to bail Waters out late in the first half.
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I don't think Waters should get 100% of the snaps and I wouldn't like that at all.
Which would you like more: Waters 100% snaps. Sams 100% snaps. Who would have the better record?
Sams
There you go.
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I don't think Waters should get 100% of the snaps and I wouldn't like that at all.
Which would you like more: Waters 100% snaps. Sams 100% snaps. Who would have the better record?
Honestly, had Sams been healthy all fall and played more vs NDSU I think we have 1 more win. Maybe 2, but I don't think either guy would've taken over the spot by this point regardless.
Next to an actual member of Snyder's staff, you've got the highest FBIQ on here. You've broken down the tape. I'm asking you, if you had to choose one of these QBs to have 100% of the snaps, which would it be and why?
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Waters is the thrower. Sams is the runner.
:sdeek: Oh my god you sound insanely racist. You make me sick.
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Waters is the thrower. Sams is the runner.
:sdeek: Oh my god you sound insanely racist. You make me sick.
Does anybody else sarcastically say things like "That's our Running QB!" when Sams completes a pass? I do.
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Waters is the thrower. Sams is the runner.
:sdeek: Oh my god you sound insanely racist. You make me sick.
Does anybody else sarcastically say things like "That's our Running QB!" when Sams completes a pass? I do.
I do too sometimes.
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Waters is the thrower. Sams is the runner.
:sdeek: Oh my god you sound insanely racist. You make me sick.
just squint really hard at his avatar
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Next to an actual member of Snyder's staff, you've got the highest FBIQ on here. You've broken down the tape. I'm asking you, if you had to choose one of these QBs to have 100% of the snaps, which would it be and why?
Oh man, on the spot.
I said that I'd give the slight nod to Sams, so I have to go with what I said. I like that he can run which leads to longer drives, plus he's been more efficient on leading drives that score. I like Waters big play ability in the passing game, especially with Thompson/Lockett, which led to my frustration with him missing some key open throws against ISU that could have blown the game open. I still think he would be solid, but I'm not sold that Sams would be quite as effective if defenses soley prepared for him simply because our offense is slighlty more limited with him in the game. Of course its more limited with Waters, but I think Waters allows us to attack more of the field than Sams does. So I understand the trust the coaches have in Waters because of that, but game in game out, Sams has played well too and more efficiently producing scores. That's why its a difficult decision for me to make, but I give Sams the slight edge right now.
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Waters is the thrower. Sams is the runner.
:sdeek: Oh my god you sound insanely racist. You make me sick.
just squint really hard at his avatar
:D
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Sams 99%/Waters 1% > Sams 100%
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I bet Rusty eats gets his butter from a tub and sits on the sunny side of the plane. :lol:
:D
I enjoyed this, ksu_FENCE
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Run the simulations for Sams at another position and Waters at QB and our record.
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ksu_FENCE
That was a weird typo (in my post).
Also, this is my favorite nickname yet. Much better than the waters stuff because (obviously) I'm not 100% waters.
Look, there is plenty of room!
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftogethertothetop.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F08%2Fthreecats50pc.jpg&hash=af96ff91e2ac78004b206b089c9104b94676804b)
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nice try waters_FAN
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Run the simulations for Sams at another position and Waters at QB and our record.
Do Sams mistakes at other positions count or not count? And if he plays slot receiver, do games count when Thompson/Lockett were hurt?
TIA.
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nice try waters_FAN
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oooza.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F04%2FMisting-Fan.jpg&hash=55766e9b71a548bd8019d0398a48c8252e9adb6f)
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Run the simulations for Sams at another position and Waters at QB and our record.
Do Sams mistakes at other positions count or not count? And if he plays slot receiver, do games count when Thompson/Lockett were hurt?
TIA.
whatever you do make sure to continue to exclude jake's worst game otherwise your fence sitting would look Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)(er)
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Run the simulations for Sams at another position and Waters at QB and our record.
Do Sams mistakes at other positions count or not count? And if he plays slot receiver, do games count when Thompson/Lockett were hurt?
TIA.
Yes and yes. But I doubt he'd throw INTs as a slot receiver.
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Run the simulations for Sams at another position and Waters at QB and our record.
Do Sams mistakes at other positions count or not count? And if he plays slot receiver, do games count when Thompson/Lockett were hurt?
TIA.
Yes and yes. But I doubt he'd throw INTs as a slot receiver.
My model says we would be 3-5.
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Run the simulations for Sams at another position and Waters at QB and our record.
Do Sams mistakes at other positions count or not count? And if he plays slot receiver, do games count when Thompson/Lockett were hurt?
TIA.
whatever you do make sure to continue to exclude jake's worst game otherwise your fence sitting would look Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)(er)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcl.jroo.me%2Fz3%2F3%2F7%2F0%2Fc%2Fa.aaa.jpg&hash=9fbefa5964b5072a43f70ab512bf8cd0028d0b22)
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i mean there are a crap load of cats on fences pics on the internet
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i mean there are a crap load of cats on fences pics on the internet
Yes, and most are adorable and amazing. I mean, look at this little guy:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcritical-thinkers.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F01%2FAnimals_Cats_The_cat_on__fence_017079_.jpg&hash=9ddd3f78503be9233f170e14274f84e2b7cbfd4b)
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Probably should get off that fence before the Waters come and strand you.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.4paws4ever.net%2Fimages%2Fcat_pause%2Fonthefence.jpg&hash=9ffa3c127075267e9e6f77a196a03bf0d9d3a690)
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_Fan, if its not too much trouble, can you run some numbers on how the Chiefs offense would be with Sams instead of Alex Smith at QB? I want to use them to shove in some fat faces over on the other sports board where me and my pals hang out.
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so, FAN, who's the better coach? Mark Mangino or LHC Bill Snyder?
Well, the stats say Snyder is better, but that doesn't always tell the whole story. Mangino does the little things you can't understand. Plus in the games Mangino won against Snyder he really outperformed Snyder. I don't think either, in head to head competition, has really shown they deserve the nod. Verdict: FENCE
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.orangedonkey.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F05%2FMagpies-Taunt-Hapless-Cat4.jpg&hash=f4f3dd67b3a4e2f88a854c80eb60ce61c4504812)
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so, FAN, who's the better coach? Mark Mangino or LHC Bill Snyder?
Well, the stats say Snyder is better, but that doesn't always tell the whole story. Mangino does the little things you can't understand. Plus in the games Mangino won against Snyder he really outperformed Snyder. I don't think either, in head to head competition, has really shown they deserve the nod. Verdict: FENCE
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.orangedonkey.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F05%2FMagpies-Taunt-Hapless-Cat4.jpg&hash=f4f3dd67b3a4e2f88a854c80eb60ce61c4504812)
If only they could alternate series and/or snaps coaching in the same game!
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm1.staticflickr.com%2F80%2F268405137_546d519285_z.jpg&hash=b16e56161825b053fa09210913bd57df4ef988a6)
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ksu_FENCE
That was a weird typo (in my post).
Also, this is my favorite nickname yet. Much better than the waters stuff because (obviously) I'm not 100% waters.
Look, there is plenty of room!
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftogethertothetop.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F08%2Fthreecats50pc.jpg&hash=af96ff91e2ac78004b206b089c9104b94676804b)
NOPE! Looks like you, zacker, and Bill. No more room up there!
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well sure, the data that I skewed to water's favor by removing his worst game still indicates sams is the better option but there's just something none of us can know about this thing that makes me think it's a photo finish. I'm on the fence guys.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fviewnorth40.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F07%2Fbsnake7-7-13_1a.jpg&hash=fe903fa1c1a74ea6d64406deeb019c03e15eab81)
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well sure, the data that I skewed to water's favor by removing his worst game still indicates sams is the better option but there's just something none of us can know about this thing that makes me think it's a photo finish. I'm on the fence guys.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fviewnorth40.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F07%2Fbsnake7-7-13_1a.jpg&hash=fe903fa1c1a74ea6d64406deeb019c03e15eab81)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wild-bird-seed.co.uk%2Fimages%2FCat_on_Fence.jpg&hash=ac7323d1232574b64375c7b27e1af2e98a70e886)
look of disappointment.
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The steve dave vs _FAN standoff continues...
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fextras.mnginteractive.com%2Flive%2Fmedia%2Fsite36%2F2011%2F1018%2F20111018__lion05%7Ep1.jpg&hash=ea052cadd1eba972f91bb10e9211f81623873181)
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.createyourownrealitynow.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F08%2Fkitten-hanging-onto-fence.jpg&hash=4e031102e5c92cf1925de34688a4dbb31feaddd5)
Hang on _Fan!
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i mean there are a crap load of cats on fences pics on the internet
Yes, and most are adorable and amazing. I mean, look at this little guy:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcritical-thinkers.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F01%2FAnimals_Cats_The_cat_on__fence_017079_.jpg&hash=9ddd3f78503be9233f170e14274f84e2b7cbfd4b)
ksu_luke
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-SRfEfy52hX8%2FT3YQQr8JsGI%2FAAAAAAAAAXY%2FlVR74OBLKDE%2Fs1600%2Fkittens%2Bfighting.jpg&hash=fefeb1a4cdb89dbec2c5044dcbf4f44d05f7ac31)
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This place is like a pack of damned coyotes. Careful _FAN!
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yellowstonegate.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F04%2Fstandoff05.jpg&hash=adb09bc1fcd752fb3879d6345c7bd8336ac6355c)
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Statistics can be interpreted in different ways.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2FFD8kAxD3b3DOeoEq-0DiznepuNrndlVARWptZ6F9aEEx58-4xUyLeDg_yWIZSI4m8G2FkzDhE2in2qNbvSsgX20%3Ds285-c&hash=b6b994b083bff4e874ac8ff7656a235d7eb0b42b)
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.telegraph.co.uk%2Fmultimedia%2Farchive%2F01775%2Fmay-candy-floss_1775379i.jpg&hash=80726ad440d9aa154dbad51e0056c5366089491a)
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I think the cats are supposed to be on fences chicat, maybe I'm just missing the whole point of these pictures though.
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This board is weird sometimes.
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The good thing for all of us is we know how this _Fan vs SD showdown eventually ends:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn04.cdn.socialitelife.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F11%2Fcats-hugging-11162010-30.gif&hash=3ce5795f130efeb8ed397dba5ef5a3badc95f706)
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I think the cats are supposed to be on fences chicat, maybe I'm just missing the whole point of these pictures though.
I mean sure, that would make sense or whatever, but I can't rob you guys of those last two pictures.
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The good thing for all of us is we know how this _Fan vs SD showdown eventually ends:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn04.cdn.socialitelife.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F11%2Fcats-hugging-11162010-30.gif&hash=3ce5795f130efeb8ed397dba5ef5a3badc95f706)
Not this time. There's no coming back from Waters support for waters_FAN. This time his fence riding has GONE TOO FAR!
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I think the cats are supposed to be on fences chicat, maybe I'm just missing the whole point of these pictures though.
I mean sure, that would make sense or whatever, but I can't rob you guys of those last two pictures.
I appreciate you bucking the trend, so that we could experience those two pics. They were adorable :love:
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just for context, it's important to realize that if ksu_FANCE were the AD then woolridge would still be the bball coach because he'd still need just one more season before he was sure enough to pull the trigger to fire the guy and hire someone else. because i mean hey, that sure looks like an ncaa team he has coming back and just look at those juco recruits. :Chirp:
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I think they can find a way to work this out.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2damnfunny.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F12%2FCats-Cross-Paths-On-Fence-And-Come-To-The-Only-Reasonable-Solution.jpg&hash=0c58caa486ed9d07f16ee937402e43cdd61a2c4e)
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ksu_FENCE
That was a weird typo (in my post).
Also, this is my favorite nickname yet. Much better than the waters stuff because (obviously) I'm not 100% waters.
Look, there is plenty of room!
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftogethertothetop.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F08%2Fthreecats50pc.jpg&hash=af96ff91e2ac78004b206b089c9104b94676804b)
NOPE! Looks like you, zacker, and Bill. No more room up there!
yep, FAN needs to see more of each yard before he can choose, zacker is mad as hell at both yards and Bill isn't sure where he is or how he got there
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ksu_FENCE
That was a weird typo (in my post).
Also, this is my favorite nickname yet. Much better than the waters stuff because (obviously) I'm not 100% waters.
Look, there is plenty of room!
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftogethertothetop.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F08%2Fthreecats50pc.jpg&hash=af96ff91e2ac78004b206b089c9104b94676804b)
NOPE! Looks like you, zacker, and Bill. No more room up there!
yep, FAN needs to see more of each yard before he can choose, zacker is mad as hell at both yards and Bill isn't sure where he is or how he got there
:lol:
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I think they can find a way to work this out.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2damnfunny.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F12%2FCats-Cross-Paths-On-Fence-And-Come-To-The-Only-Reasonable-Solution.jpg&hash=0c58caa486ed9d07f16ee937402e43cdd61a2c4e)
That gif would be a billion times better if it said B.I.T.B.
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yep, FAN needs to see more of each yard before he can choose, zacker is mad as hell at both yards and Bill isn't sure where he is or how he got there
:D
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guys.
there are also a lot of gross pictures of animals stuck in fences. should probably hop off that fence.
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itt we learn that ksu_FENCE is the moderatiest of moderates :surprised:
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnebula.wsimg.com%2F89e10f32afa48a588b9fbadedf540494%3FAccessKeyId%3D4EE2800B160DF7817D9E%26amp%3Bdisposition%3D0&hash=21d68442f446f522caa102a1b785b6c9544e321e)
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"I see that all the time and just laugh," Sams said during spring football. "Me and Jake laugh about it. We're like, how can some people call themselves fans when they're really trying to turn me and Jake against each other?"
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"I see that all the time and just laugh," Sams said during spring football. "Me and Jake laugh about it. We're like, how can some people call themselves fans when they're really trying to turn me and Jake against each other?"
Just win, baby.
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sams_FENCE
fence_SAMS
:runaway:
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daniel_FANS
:eek:
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"That's really what it is," Sams said inside the Vanier Football Complex before practice on Tuesday. "Before every game, we tell each other, 'It's on us. The defense is doing to do what it can, but it's on us putting points on the board.' When we come off to the sideline, we shake each other's hand. We're tag-teaming defenses -- "It's your turn! Go out there and do what you've gotta do!" It's really a tag-team. It's a partnership. That competition died off by week three. We both realized that. We really just want the best interest in the team. We both just want to win."
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if jake actually wanted to win, he would decline playing time.
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it is unbelievable to me how much people have forgotten how bad of a passer klein was
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it is unbelievable to me how much people have forgotten how bad of a passer klein was
i agree. v weird, kc.
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"I see that all the time and just laugh," Sams said during spring football. "Me and Jake laugh about it. We're like, how can some people call themselves fans when they're really trying to turn me and Jake against each other?"
Sams is even a better politician than Snake Waters. Sheesh, is there ANYTHING Snake is better at? (Prob. not)
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it is unbelievable to me how much people have forgotten how bad of a passer klein was
i agree. v weird, kc.
do u guys hav a spreadsheet or something to back this up?
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daniel sams, confirmed reader of goEMAW.com. jake waters, NO CONFIRMATION.
:love:
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daniel sams, confirmed reader of goEMAW.com. jake waters, NO CONFIRMATION.
:love:
"I love all of our guys and I'll do anything for them. With Daniel, the type of relationship we have, it's not about who's getting the touchdowns or the stats. If we're winning and we're both helping this team we're happy."
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it is unbelievable to me how much people have forgotten how bad of a passer klein was
It's hard to remember his passing when I remember how much he didn't turn it over.
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it is unbelievable to me how much people have forgotten how bad of a passer klein was
It's hard to remember his passing when I remember how much he didn't turn it over.
In 2 seasons as a starter:
358/585 - 61.2% - 4559 yds - 7.8 YPA - 29 TDs - 15 INTs - 5.0% TD% - 2.6% INT%
Pretty terrible.
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Why doesn't Jake slap Sams hand when he comes in the game? Huh? HUH!
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it is unbelievable to me how much people have forgotten how bad of a passer klein was
It's hard to remember his passing when I remember how much he didn't turn it over.
In 2 seasons as a starter:
358/585 - 61.2% - 4559 yds - 7.8 YPA - 29 TDs - 15 INTs - 5.0% TD% - 2.6% INT%
Pretty terrible.
carson coffman tho
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358/585 - 61.2% - 4559 yds - 7.8 YPA - 29 TDs - 15 INTs - 5.0% TD% - 2.6% INT%
Pretty terrible.
carson coffman tho
2 years:
242/380 - 63.7% - 2920 yds - 7.7 YPA - 16 TDs - 11 INTs - 4.2% TD% - 2.9% INT%
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:dubious:
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slate.com%2Fcontent%2Fdam%2Fslate%2Farticles%2Ftechnology%2Ffuture_tense%2F2013%2F08%2F130826_FT_GoldenRice02BreakIn.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg&hash=6bda868e3b8cf393308bc9200f46b5adc2d1c532)
:lol:
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To Sams' credit he's the only QB to do much of anything against the Baylor defense. He was missing his two best WR's they knew what was coming and they still struggled to stop it. Aside from that game Baylor has shut everyone down.
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#ourguy: http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/75283/qa-kansas-state-qb-daniel-sams?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
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hero
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#ourguy: http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/75283/qa-kansas-state-qb-daniel-sams?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Trotter: People say you can’t play two quarterbacks and be successful. How have you and Jake made it work?
Since when was 4-4 "working"? With the one-QB system (that QB being Sams) we'd be 8-0 right now prob.
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hero
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg35.imageshack.us%2Fimg35%2F9899%2F34z5.png&hash=72316ca1b2939dd9142c8b9146fd0d40f2b1de3c)
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He's going to be a great interview in the NFL.
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hero
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg35.imageshack.us%2Fimg35%2F9899%2F34z5.png&hash=72316ca1b2939dd9142c8b9146fd0d40f2b1de3c)
Pfft, way to make Snake the taller kid, waters_FAN. :rolleyes:
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daniel sams, confirmed reader of goEMAW.com. jake waters, NO CONFIRMATION.
:love:
too busy checking paul rhodes twitter feed :curse:
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Daniel is such a stud boss.
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Am I the only one who gets tired of Waters just laying down so awkwardly when he's about to get hit? I know it's, "smart," football and he's trying to protect himself, but damn.
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Still on the fence _Fan?
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#2headedqbmonster
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Not sure if we have a couple of studs or if TTU's run defense is worse than our defense that gave up like 1000 yards to North Texas
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:love: WATERS :love:
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Not sure if we have a couple of studs or if TTU's run defense is worse than our defense that gave up like 1000 yards to North Texas
Its both