Author Topic: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....  (Read 3980722 times)

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Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26050 on: April 07, 2015, 04:00:55 PM »
I missed this thread...

Though, I think UConn would be better served dropping football to the MAC and going back to the Big East.

Then the Big East could add Wichita State and then have two divisions:

East:
UConn
St. John's
Villanova
Georgetown
Seton Hall
Providence

West:
Creighton
Wichita State
Marquette
DePaul
Butler
Xavier

Offline cfbandyman

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26051 on: April 07, 2015, 04:11:28 PM »
I missed this thread...

Though, I think UConn would be better served dropping football to the MAC and going back to the Big East.

Then the Big East could add Wichita State and then have two divisions:

East:
UConn
St. John's
Villanova
Georgetown
Seton Hall
Providence

West:
Creighton
Wichita State
Marquette
DePaul
Butler
Xavier

Alert me when WSU has a football team  :zzz:
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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26052 on: April 07, 2015, 04:15:28 PM »
I missed this thread...

Though, I think UConn would be better served dropping football to the MAC and going back to the Big East.

Then the Big East could add Wichita State and then have two divisions:

East:
UConn
St. John's
Villanova
Georgetown
Seton Hall
Providence

West:
Creighton
Wichita State
Marquette
DePaul
Butler
Xavier

Alert me when WSU has a football team  :zzz:

This is a brilliant point
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Offline TownieCat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26053 on: April 07, 2015, 04:34:02 PM »


The other concept is if you completely get rid of divisions altogether.  Right now, some of the biggest points of contention in all of the conferences is that you have to stack divisions to keep rivalries together, but it screws up the competitive balance of the league.

For example, the Pac 12 has a screwy schedule because even though they put Stanford and Cal in the North division, they still have to play USC and UCLA every single year.  It screws up any sort of fair rotation.

In the Big Ten, Michigan, Ohio State, and Michigan State are all in the same division.  That's stupid.  Wisconsin is running roughshod all over the western division, or whatever stupid thing they're calling it now.

The ACC screws themselves because Florida State plays Clemson every year, and then that means the winner has to play Georgia Tech or Duke in the ACC title game making for, typically, horrendous football.

The NCAA is the one mandating that you have to have divisions.  There's really no need for them, to be honest.  You could get more creative with your scheduling if you could simply do away with them.

The divisional balance issue is all cyclical. You don't have to go back very far to when VT was running the ACC. Also, teams like Nub and Iowa will compete with Wisconsin...and they lost to Northwestern this year so "roughshod" is a bit of a stretch anyways.

My point is that you can't just look at the landscape of the last couple of years and assume it won't change, because it always does.

Online Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26054 on: April 07, 2015, 04:50:01 PM »
The other concept is if you completely get rid of divisions altogether.  Right now, some of the biggest points of contention in all of the conferences is that you have to stack divisions to keep rivalries together, but it screws up the competitive balance of the league.

For example, the Pac 12 has a screwy schedule because even though they put Stanford and Cal in the North division, they still have to play USC and UCLA every single year.  It screws up any sort of fair rotation.

In the Big Ten, Michigan, Ohio State, and Michigan State are all in the same division.  That's stupid.  Wisconsin is running roughshod all over the western division, or whatever stupid thing they're calling it now.

The ACC screws themselves because Florida State plays Clemson every year, and then that means the winner has to play Georgia Tech or Duke in the ACC title game making for, typically, horrendous football.

The NCAA is the one mandating that you have to have divisions.  There's really no need for them, to be honest.  You could get more creative with your scheduling if you could simply do away with them.

If you get rid of divisions, then the conference champion stops getting determined on the field. Conferences should just drop the rivalry game from the other division or stop counting games against the other division as anything more than a tiebreaker to get into the championship game.

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26055 on: April 08, 2015, 11:18:35 AM »
To be honest, I think this is good/bad news.  Good news is that the conference champ probably has a great argument for the playoff.  Bad news is that if we expand to 8 playoff teams, it may hurt us because we'll probably cut the legs out from under the second ranked team.

I doubt the Big 12 actually adds the Conference Championship game with just ten teams. And if we do, we can retract it if it goes to 8 teams. Just because we got permission to have one, doesn't mean we are forced to have one.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26056 on: April 08, 2015, 11:30:46 AM »
http://m.espn.go.com/ncf/story?storyId=12230742&src=desktop&rand=ref~%7B%22ref%22%3A%22http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FVwA0PNhxW2%22%7D&ex_cid=sportscenterTW

I've talked about this idea in the past, and I love it.  Makes perfect sense for both schools.

The other similar idea is to schedule TWO Non-Con games (home and away) with the same team.  But, this works better in Basketball.  I'd love to play Mizzou twice in basketball every year.

During our Elite 8 season under Kruger we played a home and home with Southern Miss.

Offline TownieCat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26057 on: April 08, 2015, 11:49:08 AM »
To be honest, I think this is good/bad news.  Good news is that the conference champ probably has a great argument for the playoff.  Bad news is that if we expand to 8 playoff teams, it may hurt us because we'll probably cut the legs out from under the second ranked team.

I doubt the Big 12 actually adds the Conference Championship game with just ten teams. And if we do, we can retract it if it goes to 8 teams. Just because we got permission to have one, doesn't mean we are forced to have one.

Why push for permission if you don't intend to have a CCG? Seems like wasted effort.

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26058 on: April 08, 2015, 12:08:39 PM »
To be honest, I think this is good/bad news.  Good news is that the conference champ probably has a great argument for the playoff.  Bad news is that if we expand to 8 playoff teams, it may hurt us because we'll probably cut the legs out from under the second ranked team.

I doubt the Big 12 actually adds the Conference Championship game with just ten teams. And if we do, we can retract it if it goes to 8 teams. Just because we got permission to have one, doesn't mean we are forced to have one.

Why push for permission if you don't intend to have a CCG? Seems like wasted effort.

So we can add it whenever we want to in the future.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26059 on: April 08, 2015, 12:44:19 PM »
It may be hard to potentially turn down the money for a CCG.

Jerry Jones wants that game, and he's wanted it for a very long time.

I mean, let's be honest, if OU and Texas got really good again, and that game had a chance to be a prime time championship game, it would be ridiculous.  Hell, the world deserved TCU/Baylor II.

If history stands, it could look something like this:

Friday: Pac-12 (Fox)
Saturday noon: ACC (ABC/ESPN)
Saturday afternoon (3:30ish): SEC (CBS)
Saturday night: Big Ten (Fox)
Saturday night: Big 12 (ABC/ESPN)

Offline ben ji

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Offline kslim

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26062 on: April 27, 2015, 07:16:04 PM »
That's rough ridin' crazy

Offline Pete

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Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26063 on: April 27, 2015, 08:25:31 PM »
http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/espn-sues-verizon-over-cable-offerings-042715

I think his logic is flawed in a couple places.  If things go all a carte, I don't think ESPN would ever attempt to charge $30 (in today's dollars) per month to subscribers...I think that they would have to cut costs.  That would be bad, but for different reasons than the author lists.  Namely that contracts paid to college conferences would probably drop significantly.

Ad revenue should stay pretty steady, if he is right that 20% of subscribers still buck up for sports channels.  But, if they really do jack up the monthly rate, then ad revenue would likely drop....which also leads to unpleasant consequences from cost cutting, IMO.

Either case will be crazy study in elasticity of demand. 


Mostly, I am leaning toward the idea that college sport is racing toward death as we know it.  Go cats.

Offline ben ji

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26064 on: April 27, 2015, 08:41:42 PM »
http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/espn-sues-verizon-over-cable-offerings-042715

I think his logic is flawed in a couple places.  If things go all a carte, I don't think ESPN would ever attempt to charge $30 (in today's dollars) per month to subscribers...I think that they would have to cut costs.  That would be bad, but for different reasons than the author lists.  Namely that contracts paid to college conferences would probably drop significantly.

Ad revenue should stay pretty steady, if he is right that 20% of subscribers still buck up for sports channels.  But, if they really do jack up the monthly rate, then ad revenue would likely drop....which also leads to unpleasant consequences from cost cutting, IMO.

Either case will be crazy study in elasticity of demand. 


Mostly, I am leaning toward the idea that college sport is racing toward death as we know it.  Go cats.

I think more than 20% would pay up for the regular sports channel package. Just thinking of my parents or friends who are not big sports fans, they will all still watch k-state/royals/chefs games just because its a common way to relate to people. They may not read gE but they want to watch the KSU/KU game so they can talk about it at their co-workers/friends. 

I agree with the rest of what you are saying, no way TV contracts for sports can continue to go through the roof. Eventually things will stabilize and probably decline.

The bigger issue is for fringe networks like the BIG/SEC/PAC network. It's the people like my parents who aren't in the 20% who will opt out of these channels and not care about missing 1 or 2 extra games a year. ESPN will be fine but these people will kill the conference network model.

Offline Skipper44

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26065 on: April 28, 2015, 11:19:06 AM »
a la carte will happen and I predict it will actually help sports as it is one of the very few DVR and pirate proof programming options and this will only get worse as non computer literate folks become fewer and fewer.  Hell, if the net neutrality issue gets much worse even crapty illegal streams will become too much of a PITA for all but the most sys of sys-types.

A la carte will be tough on the conference networks, especially the Big Ten network that only added Rutgers and Maryland to get exploit the "home state" rate increase in carriage deals they had already put in place. 

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26066 on: April 28, 2015, 11:48:01 AM »
That article is the biggest piece of crap I've read in a long time.  As a consumer, all I care about is the value that I'm receiving.  Apparently I should be willing to sacrifice that so that the networks, conferences and professional leagues can continue to rake in huge revenues without having to adapt to change?  What an absurd circularity.  Essentially, he's saying this is the way it has been, therefore this is the way it ought to be. 

Offline ksutrumpet

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26067 on: April 28, 2015, 11:53:22 AM »
I have thought for a while that if espn or fox wanted to charge say $10-$15 a month subscription for streaming access to all games that they carry they would just rake in the money.  HBO fired the first shots by severing there ties to cable providers for there streaming service. In the next few years others will follow and it may be better for the consumer.

Offline KITNfury

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26068 on: April 28, 2015, 12:40:57 PM »
I have thought for a while that if espn or fox wanted to charge say $10-$15 a month subscription for streaming access to all games that they carry they would just rake in the money.  HBO fired the first shots by severing there ties to cable providers for there streaming service. In the next few years others will follow and it may be better for the consumer.
It was an interesting point about higher quality of fringe networks because the money they get from non viewers.
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Offline ksutrumpet

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26069 on: April 28, 2015, 01:06:45 PM »
I have thought for a while that if espn or fox wanted to charge say $10-$15 a month subscription for streaming access to all games that they carry they would just rake in the money.  HBO fired the first shots by severing there ties to cable providers for there streaming service. In the next few years others will follow and it may be better for the consumer.
It was an interesting point about higher quality of fringe networks because the money they get from non viewers.
Yes, the author continues to regurgitate the same tired arguments made by cable companies. the problem is that they are not making higher quality programming because of the money. The numbers show that people still only watch 12-17 channels at most and companies like ESPN just continue to cram there absurd number of channels with crap that nobody watches. ESPN's statement says that they continue to lead in innovating sports broadcasting, but I would argue that because of the current system they are not innovating at all. They have become the unchanging Goliath of a corporation that can't see beyond their bottom line. If they were innovators they would be trying to find ways of getting sports to people anyway they can. I guarantee there is a growing number of people out there that are younger and streaming there entertainment that don't have cable. They are missing out on that money and that segment is only going to continue to get bigger the longer they fight.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26070 on: April 28, 2015, 01:12:44 PM »
In a pure a la carte scenario, ESPN would drop the network crap, move to a Netflix subscriber model over the Internet, broadcast a crap ton of games, do a bunch of original programming like 30 for 30 and PTI, cut back on SportsCenters and then, ultimately, pay a lot less for rights fees.

If college teams want to make money in the future of a la carte, their bargaining power will be as larger, consolidated groups like how the NFL does their bargaining.  I've kind of thought for the last year or so that conferences will grow to 18-20 or so teams, and they'll be more about creating regional divisions that cut down operational costs and promote attendance, while having larger conferences that allow these schools to have greater weight at the bargaining table.

Offline TheHamburglar

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26071 on: April 29, 2015, 08:16:47 PM »
Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN
· 2h 2 hours ago
Bill Hancock on @CFBPlayoff: "We need to emphasis more the importance of the conference championships"

Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN · 1m 1 minute ago
Big 12’s Bob Bowlsby: “What we heard is if we don’t go to a championship game we’re at a disadvantage"

Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN · 5m 5 minutes ago
Bob Bowlsby “I surmise a move in that direction (toward having future Big 12 title game)”

Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN · 6m 6 minutes ago
Bob Bowlsby said Jeff Long indicated “13 (games) better than 12.” If Big 12 at disadvantage Big 12 would look to add future title game


I wonder how the Big12 will eff this up.
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Offline pissclams

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26072 on: April 29, 2015, 08:27:00 PM »

Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN
· 2h 2 hours ago
Bill Hancock on @CFBPlayoff: "We need to emphasis more the importance of the conference championships"

Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN · 1m 1 minute ago
Big 12’s Bob Bowlsby: “What we heard is if we don’t go to a championship game we’re at a disadvantage"

Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN · 5m 5 minutes ago
Bob Bowlsby “I surmise a move in that direction (toward having future Big 12 title game)”

Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN · 6m 6 minutes ago
Bob Bowlsby said Jeff Long indicated “13 (games) better than 12.” If Big 12 at disadvantage Big 12 would look to add future title game


I wonder how the Big12 will eff this up.
probably by adding a big 12 championship game


Cheesy Mustache QB might make an appearance.

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Offline Pete

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26073 on: April 29, 2015, 09:05:39 PM »


Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN
· 2h 2 hours ago
Bill Hancock on @CFBPlayoff: "We need to emphasis more the importance of the conference championships"

Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN · 1m 1 minute ago
Big 12’s Bob Bowlsby: “What we heard is if we don’t go to a championship game we’re at a disadvantage"

Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN · 5m 5 minutes ago
Bob Bowlsby “I surmise a move in that direction (toward having future Big 12 title game)”

Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN · 6m 6 minutes ago
Bob Bowlsby said Jeff Long indicated “13 (games) better than 12.” If Big 12 at disadvantage Big 12 would look to add future title game


I wonder how the Big12 will eff this up.
probably by adding a big 12 championship game

This

Offline KITNfury

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26074 on: April 29, 2015, 09:13:01 PM »
Probably by adding two teams first, which would be a disaster unless a miracle dream scenario happened
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