Author Topic: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look  (Read 137918 times)

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Offline michigancat

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #600 on: May 21, 2018, 02:36:16 PM »


this is the incel-whisperer that everyone is making fun of on twitter. I was wondering if there was a thread for him and here it is.
That's him.  He tells incels to get their crap together and be better men.  Treacherous stuff.

LOL how could you read the post about "enforced monogamy" you shared and not think he's a weirdo who deserves to be made fun of. Truly baffling and disappointing that you look up to this clown.

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #601 on: May 21, 2018, 02:42:16 PM »


this is the incel-whisperer that everyone is making fun of on twitter. I was wondering if there was a thread for him and here it is.
That's him.  He tells incels to get their crap together and be better men.  Treacherous stuff.

LOL how could you read the post about "enforced monogamy" you shared and not think he's a weirdo who deserves to be made fun of. Truly baffling and disappointing that you look up to this clown.
rusty, what do you think he means by "enforced monogamy"?  do you really think he's saying that we should force women to have sex with incels?  like, is that what you really think his position on this is?


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Offline sys

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #602 on: May 21, 2018, 02:52:01 PM »
i think michigan means that he used like 20 paragraphs when he could have just said - "i mean we should encourage marriage, just like everyone else says we should do."
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline chum1

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #603 on: May 21, 2018, 02:54:12 PM »
I think the only good think about him is his colorful language. The ideas are garbage in and of themselves.

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #604 on: May 21, 2018, 03:05:37 PM »
i think michigan means that he used like 20 paragraphs when he could have just said - "i mean we should encourage marriage, just like everyone else says we should do."
and that's fine.  i've never celebrated him for his brevity.  just so long as we don't think the "enforced monogamy" stuff is actually anything sinister.    and that's the weird thing about all this.  i don't think there's anything particularly dangerous or revolutionary about his self-help message or philosophy.  like i said, it's mostly self-help rugged individualism rhetoric which apparently resonates with a lot of people. 

I think his self-help stuff is okay, but listening to his lectures was my first real introduction into psychology and philosophy.  His lectures on the old testament stories (as archetypes) are great.


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Offline michigancat

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #605 on: May 21, 2018, 03:05:49 PM »


this is the incel-whisperer that everyone is making fun of on twitter. I was wondering if there was a thread for him and here it is.
That's him.  He tells incels to get their crap together and be better men.  Treacherous stuff.

LOL how could you read the post about "enforced monogamy" you shared and not think he's a weirdo who deserves to be made fun of. Truly baffling and disappointing that you look up to this clown.
rusty, what do you think he means by "enforced monogamy"?  do you really think he's saying that we should force women to have sex with incels?  like, is that what you really think his position on this is?

No, I don't think that. I just think he's a goofball who deserves to be mercilessly mocked for using the term when he could have said something like "society promoted monogamy" if that's what he really meant. Chum is correct that his provocative wordy language is pretty much all that makes him interesting but it's also a big part of what makes most smart people think he's a joke.

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Offline CHONGS

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #607 on: May 21, 2018, 03:14:00 PM »
Alt-Right Hubbard as I call him.

Offline steve dave

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #608 on: May 21, 2018, 03:20:12 PM »
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson

Quote
Peterson wearing a fedora, complaining that women only date bad boys[75]


 :lol:

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #609 on: May 21, 2018, 03:20:56 PM »
I don't know if dlew is following Jordan Peterson's rule of being honest or if Jordan Peterson has just proved inscrutable again.

Peterson's writing/speaking style is to say something very incendiary and provocative but also obtuse and then claim that he is just saying something completely mundane and uninteresting like "monogamy is good" when challenged. But he is actually says "enforced monogamy" and provides lots of context and reasoning like women having birth control is bad and that not enough men are getting female attention and that over 50% of men will never procreate.  I mean all the context he provides on this and all of the other weirdos that he is associated with pretty clearly establish the premise of sex as a commodity that needs government intervention. But then when pressed on any of this, he doesn't actually offer up anything or claims that men are being victimized and "something must be done!" but without specifying anything.

If all he was claiming to be was Oprah for upper middle class fail sons, then I wouldn't be so bothered by it. But the amount of attention given to him is galling, especially considering his academic writing/lectures don't seem to have any sort of rigor to them. To take one example that I've seen (there are several others I could mention) he has a lecture where he proposes that the DNA double helix is featured in ancient societies around the world because there are lots of symbols that look kind of similar to that. It is pyramids are grain silos Ben Carson level insanity.

Offline sys

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #610 on: May 21, 2018, 03:27:10 PM »
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #611 on: May 21, 2018, 03:49:08 PM »

somebody get this man a mountain dew immediately.

I don't know if dlew is following Jordan Peterson's rule of being honest or if Jordan Peterson has just proved inscrutable again.

Peterson's writing/speaking style is to say something very incendiary and provocative but also obtuse and then claim that he is just saying something completely mundane and uninteresting like "monogamy is good" when challenged. But he is actually says "enforced monogamy" and provides lots of context and reasoning like women having birth control is bad and that not enough men are getting female attention and that over 50% of men will never procreate.  I mean all the context he provides on this and all of the other weirdos that he is associated with pretty clearly establish the premise of sex as a commodity that needs government intervention. But then when pressed on any of this, he doesn't actually offer up anything or claims that men are being victimized and "something must be done!" but without specifying anything.

If all he was claiming to be was Oprah for upper middle class fail sons, then I wouldn't be so bothered by it. But the amount of attention given to him is galling, especially considering his academic writing/lectures don't seem to have any sort of rigor to them. To take one example that I've seen (there are several others I could mention) he has a lecture where he proposes that the DNA double helix is featured in ancient societies around the world because there are lots of symbols that look kind of similar to that. It is pyramids are grain silos Ben Carson level insanity.

I don't think Peterson has ever said that the pill is "bad."  He recognized that it was an incredibly important social and biological revolution. He linked it to a declining birthrate in the west (which he called a "catastrophe" from a multigenerational perspective), cited a study that said women on birth control tend to not find typically "masculine" features as attractive as women who are not on the pill and said that there is good evidence to suggest that women's general level of unhappiness has increased since the early 60s but is unsure of whether there's a causal link between the two.  I don't know whether any of that's true, but i think they're interesting issues.

He doesn't say that "over 50% of men will never procreate."  I've heard him talk about this particular thing before and he stated that people generally have twice as many female ancestors and male ancestors because throughout millennia 50% of men didn't procreate.  I don't know whether this is true or not, but it certainly didn't imply that this remained the case today.  Again, much of what he says isn't advocacy for anything at all. 

to say that he thinks sex requires government intervention is absolutely, 100% absurd if you have any clue about what he actually advocates for.

i've never heard him talk about the double helix thing but i assume he was waxing about jung and adam and eve/snakes with that.  Without any context, whatever he was talking about there sounds like bullshit.  i think the jung/archetype stuff is fascinating - even if he goes overboard with it sometimes (like the double helix stuff).
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 04:00:42 PM by Dlew12 »


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Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #612 on: May 21, 2018, 04:37:37 PM »
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson

Quote
Peterson wearing a fedora, complaining that women only date bad boys[75]


 :lol:

It's amazing that guy even knows what a woman looks like

Offline DQ12

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #613 on: May 21, 2018, 04:49:33 PM »
that hat and look is what the top of the sexual hierarchy looks like. 


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Offline sys

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #614 on: May 21, 2018, 05:05:23 PM »
He doesn't say that "over 50% of men will never procreate."  I've heard him talk about this particular thing before and he stated that people generally have twice as many female ancestors and male ancestors because throughout millennia 50% of men didn't procreate.  I don't know whether this is true or not, but it certainly didn't imply that this remained the case today.  Again, much of what he says isn't advocacy for anything at all. 

i'd like to see the actual paper this is based on.  i tried googling a little and didn't come up with anything that seemed like the source.

at any rate, chingon or someone more mathematically astute than i can check my assumption, but it doesn't seem to me to follow that 50% of males didn't procreate from the data that current humans have, on average, 2x as many female ancestors as male.  once a male lineage dies out in any generation, it's gone, so that doesn't mean that 50% dies out in every generation.  the actual difference between % of males that reproduce v % of females that reproduce in each generation would be much smaller to arrive at a cumulative difference of x v 2x in the current generation.

btw, the study this blurb is based on seems more realistic (but i haven't yet read the actual paper).

https://psmag.com/environment/17-to-1-reproductive-success
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 06:29:35 PM by sys »
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline sys

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #615 on: May 21, 2018, 05:22:43 PM »
ok, read the paper.  not terribly helpful for what i was looking for.  and sufficiently dry that i'm not going to look for other papers.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #616 on: May 21, 2018, 05:50:45 PM »
that hat and look is what the top of the sexual hierarchy looks like.

I have no idea what this means but if you’re saying his Bacharach costume is helping with ladies I’ll help fully assure you “lol, no”

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #617 on: May 21, 2018, 06:18:23 PM »
that hat and look is what the top of the sexual hierarchy looks like.

I have no idea what this means but if you’re saying his Bacharach costume is helping with ladies I’ll help fully assure you “lol, no”
Typical leftist propaganda


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Offline michigancat

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #618 on: May 21, 2018, 07:09:46 PM »



somebody get this man a mountain dew immediately.

I don't know if dlew is following Jordan Peterson's rule of being honest or if Jordan Peterson has just proved inscrutable again.

Peterson's writing/speaking style is to say something very incendiary and provocative but also obtuse and then claim that he is just saying something completely mundane and uninteresting like "monogamy is good" when challenged. But he is actually says "enforced monogamy" and provides lots of context and reasoning like women having birth control is bad and that not enough men are getting female attention and that over 50% of men will never procreate.  I mean all the context he provides on this and all of the other weirdos that he is associated with pretty clearly establish the premise of sex as a commodity that needs government intervention. But then when pressed on any of this, he doesn't actually offer up anything or claims that men are being victimized and "something must be done!" but without specifying anything.

If all he was claiming to be was Oprah for upper middle class fail sons, then I wouldn't be so bothered by it. But the amount of attention given to him is galling, especially considering his academic writing/lectures don't seem to have any sort of rigor to them. To take one example that I've seen (there are several others I could mention) he has a lecture where he proposes that the DNA double helix is featured in ancient societies around the world because there are lots of symbols that look kind of similar to that. It is pyramids are grain silos Ben Carson level insanity.

I don't think Peterson has ever said that the pill is "bad."  He recognized that it was an incredibly important social and biological revolution. He linked it to a declining birthrate in the west (which he called a "catastrophe" from a multigenerational perspective), cited a study that said women on birth control tend to not find typically "masculine" features as attractive as women who are not on the pill and said that there is good evidence to suggest that women's general level of unhappiness has increased since the early 60s but is unsure of whether there's a causal link between the two.  I don't know whether any of that's true, but i think they're interesting issues.

He doesn't say that "over 50% of men will never procreate."  I've heard him talk about this particular thing before and he stated that people generally have twice as many female ancestors and male ancestors because throughout millennia 50% of men didn't procreate.  I don't know whether this is true or not, but it certainly didn't imply that this remained the case today.  Again, much of what he says isn't advocacy for anything at all. 

to say that he thinks sex requires government intervention is absolutely, 100% absurd if you have any clue about what he actually advocates for.

i've never heard him talk about the double helix thing but i assume he was waxing about jung and adam and eve/snakes with that.  Without any context, whatever he was talking about there sounds like bullshit.  i think the jung/archetype stuff is fascinating - even if he goes overboard with it sometimes (like the double helix stuff).

You said he was all about "truth" yet you acknowledge you have no idea if the bullshit he spews is true or not and you don't seem to care.

Offline sys

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #619 on: May 21, 2018, 07:23:41 PM »
to be fair, you've made no effort to ascertain how true his bullshit is either but you're here calling it bullshit.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline chum1

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #620 on: May 21, 2018, 07:36:24 PM »
I only skimmed part of the layperson article and feel like I can pretty safely conclude that it is bullshit based on my previous experience with bullshit.

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #621 on: May 21, 2018, 07:39:51 PM »
You said he was all about "truth" yet you acknowledge you have no idea if the bullshit he spews is true or not and you don't seem to care.
Right.  I'm not married to him or his ideology.  Some of what he says sounds like bullshit to me (i.e. the double helix stuff - but this isn't the only thing), but if I spent time investigating every single eyebrow raising statement that people I otherwise respect say, I wouldn't have much time to do anything else. Regardless, I do disagree with some of his positions (particularly his paranoia regarding "post modernism" [see his Frozen critique] and his denial of the existence of white privilege). 

But I do think a lot of his self-help stuff is motivating.  Which I like, and I think has helped a lot of directionless/depressed people.  And I think some of the philosophy/psychology he talks about is interesting (especially the Jung archetype stuff). 

He goes too far sometimes, but i think the demonizing of him over the last week or two by people who have no idea what he's actually talking about is absolutely ridiculous.


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Offline sys

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #622 on: May 21, 2018, 07:52:52 PM »
I only skimmed part of the layperson article and feel like I can pretty safely conclude that it is bullshit based on my previous experience with bullshit.

i think what you probably mean is that you don't like what he says.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline michigancat

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #623 on: May 21, 2018, 07:53:53 PM »
to be fair, you've made no effort to ascertain how true his bullshit is either but you're here calling it bullshit.
I read your post about 50% of males not procreating

Offline DQ12

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #624 on: May 21, 2018, 07:58:52 PM »
to be fair, you've made no effort to ascertain how true his bullshit is either but you're here calling it bullshit.
I read your post about 50% of males not procreating
man, sys didn't refute anything, nor did he claim to. fwiw: https://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/20/is-there-anything-good-about-men-and-other-tricky-questions/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=1


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