Author Topic: What if we finish 8-4?  (Read 18234 times)

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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #125 on: November 22, 2014, 06:38:35 PM »
If kstate goes 10-2 with this schedule it may be a top 5 all time ksu team

Who would this team edge out of the top 5?


Obvs 98, 03, 12  aren't going to be pushed out.
i mean I couldn't give you a top 5 other than the top 3 but it has got to be mentioned if this team runs the table, this schedule was nuts and a split pepper would absolutely knock out 03, the loss to Marshall solidifies it

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Offline wetwillie

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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #126 on: November 22, 2014, 06:40:49 PM »
If kstate goes 10-2 with this schedule it may be a top 5 all time ksu team

Who would this team edge out of the top 5?


Obvs 98, 03, 12  aren't going to be pushed out.

02 was much much better than 12

So 14 is greater than 12 if win @ Baylor?
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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #127 on: November 22, 2014, 06:41:58 PM »
 :whistle1:
If kstate goes 10-2 with this schedule it may be a top 5 all time ksu team

Who would this team edge out of the top 5?


Obvs 98, 03, 12  aren't going to be pushed out.
i mean I couldn't give you a top 5 other than the top 3 but it has got to be mentioned if this team runs the table, this schedule was nuts and a split pepper would absolutely knock out 03, the loss to Marshall solidifies it

wut
not sure on the confusion other than a misplaced comma

Offline doom

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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #128 on: November 23, 2014, 03:14:41 PM »
If kstate goes 10-2 with this schedule it may be a top 5 all time ksu team

Who would this team edge out of the top 5?


Obvs 98, 03, 12  aren't going to be pushed out.
i mean I couldn't give you a top 5 other than the top 3 but it has got to be mentioned if this team runs the table, this schedule was nuts and a split pepper would absolutely knock out 03, the loss to Marshall solidifies it

wut

qft, an outirght dp is better than a split one.  Ell was out.
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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #129 on: November 23, 2014, 03:21:36 PM »

If kstate goes 10-2 with this schedule it may be a top 5 all time ksu team

Who would this team edge out of the top 5?


Obvs 98, 03, 12  aren't going to be pushed out.

02 was much much better than 12

So 14 is greater than 12 if win @ Baylor?

I'd have to agree, especially if Texas beats TCU.

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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #130 on: November 23, 2014, 09:51:54 PM »

If kstate goes 10-2 with this schedule it may be a top 5 all time ksu team

Who would this team edge out of the top 5?


Obvs 98, 03, 12  aren't going to be pushed out.

02 was much much better than 12

So 14 is greater than 12 if win @ Baylor?

I'd have to agree, especially if Texas beats TCU.
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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #131 on: November 23, 2014, 11:09:52 PM »
If kstate goes 10-2 with this schedule it may be a top 5 all time ksu team

 With at best 2 top 25 wins :ROFL: if you made this post the week of the auburn game it would have been slightly less ridiculous, now it's ultra dumb. I'm serious when I say this but our Copper Bowl team is better than this team, certainly more talented. The Big 8 was very very good in the 90s.

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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #132 on: November 23, 2014, 11:16:07 PM »
A big 12 title and a win in a committee bowl selection game would be top 5. I don't care who we played to do it either.

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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #133 on: November 23, 2014, 11:28:55 PM »
A big 12 title and a win in a committee bowl selection game would be top 5. I don't care who we played to do it either.

It would certainly be the top 5 accomplished, hell top 3 but circumstances absolutely matter and this isn't a top 5 K-State program & I don't care if they get into the CFP. The '98 team got no trophies that matter and if you think this team is better than that team then you are a fool. The only position where you could even have an argument to what the better unit is at wide receiver. I mean I don't know how this team could have a worse running back unit than '98 but they managed to do so.

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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #134 on: November 23, 2014, 11:33:25 PM »
Well that's fair. '98 was the tits!

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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #135 on: November 23, 2014, 11:42:24 PM »
I think this team's record is a testament to how much better this staff is than they were at the end of Snyder 1.0. Waters and Lockett are the only differences between this team and the 04 & 05 teams.

Offline wabash909

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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #136 on: November 24, 2014, 06:11:56 AM »
I think this team's record is a testament to how much better this staff is than they were at the end of Snyder 1.0. Waters and Lockett are the only differences between this team and the 04 & 05 teams.

So, what you're saying is next year we are really going to blow.


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Offline kslim

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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #137 on: November 24, 2014, 06:59:14 AM »
If kstate goes 10-2 with this schedule it may be a top 5 all time ksu team

 With at best 2 top 25 wins :ROFL: if you made this post the week of the auburn game it would have been slightly less ridiculous, now it's ultra dumb. I'm serious when I say this but our Copper Bowl team is better than this team, certainly more talented. The Big 8 was very very good in the 90s.
im probably giving our conference way to much credit but it has been very difficult, there are at least 10 teams more talented than this go fighting cats one but my post wasnt predicated on talent. collectively from the coaches down this team has overachieved big time especially with all of the injuries this team has had and a lack of a true running game, ill be honest my post was in haste and not well thought out but collectively its hard to ignore what this team has done. obviously two weeks could destroy any argument that i have 

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #138 on: November 24, 2014, 09:22:42 AM »
Unfortunately I don't have good TO numbers to compare 93-99, but this is an updated version of the 2000-2014 per play stats that I posted a couple of weeks ago. I added SOS (from Sagarin). (The OFF-DEF column is differential between the 2). This team has done some nice things and to this point it has been a really solid season. Maybe not top 5, but its hard for me to complain much about what we've accomplished this year.

« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 09:25:45 AM by ksu_FAN »

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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #139 on: November 24, 2014, 09:42:02 AM »
A big 12 title and a win in a committee bowl selection game would be top 5. I don't care who we played to do it either.

It would certainly be the top 5 accomplished, hell top 3 but circumstances absolutely matter and this isn't a top 5 K-State program & I don't care if they get into the CFP. The '98 team got no trophies that matter and if you think this team is better than that team then you are a fool. The only position where you could even have an argument to what the better unit is at wide receiver. I mean I don't know how this team could have a worse running back unit than '98 but they managed to do so.

I dunno, MIR.  While I certainly wouldn't make the argument that this team could even carry '98s jock in terms of talent ('cept WR), I think they would make for a formidable matchup.  Seems like a big part of this years success has been attributed to lack of mistakes, forcing opponents to make mistakes, and then capitalizing on those mistakes.  Bish was my absolute favorite QBcat of all time but his emotions would get him out of control and I feel like some of our worse losses can be directly attributed to 7 getting frustrated and doing something stupid or just trying to do too much on his own.  I truly believe this years defense would eat him alive.

That said, I also think its illogical to try to compare teams from different seasons, let alone different eras, since the game is always changing and the elements critical to success change so drastically every 5 years or so.  Obviously things like TOP, penalties, and turnover margin weren't such critical factors in '98.

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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #140 on: November 24, 2014, 09:49:38 AM »
Bishop would absolutely dominate this defense and it's not even debatable
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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #141 on: November 24, 2014, 09:55:43 AM »
A big 12 title and a win in a committee bowl selection game would be top 5. I don't care who we played to do it either.

It would certainly be the top 5 accomplished, hell top 3 but circumstances absolutely matter and this isn't a top 5 K-State program & I don't care if they get into the CFP. The '98 team got no trophies that matter and if you think this team is better than that team then you are a fool. The only position where you could even have an argument to what the better unit is at wide receiver. I mean I don't know how this team could have a worse running back unit than '98 but they managed to do so.

I dunno, MIR.  While I certainly wouldn't make the argument that this team could even carry '98s jock in terms of talent ('cept WR), I think they would make for a formidable matchup.  Seems like a big part of this years success has been attributed to lack of mistakes, forcing opponents to make mistakes, and then capitalizing on those mistakes.  Bish was my absolute favorite QBcat of all time but his emotions would get him out of control and I feel like some of our worse losses can be directly attributed to 7 getting frustrated and doing something stupid or just trying to do too much on his own.  I truly believe this years defense would eat him alive.

That said, I also think its illogical to try to compare teams from different seasons, let alone different eras, since the game is always changing and the elements critical to success change so drastically every 5 years or so.  Obviously things like TOP, penalties, and turnover margin weren't such critical factors in '98.

What do you mean "some of our worst losses?" The only one we had Bishop was amazing that game, he didn't turn the ball over out of frustration, the one notable (maybe his only one I don't remember any other) turnover was a fumble he had after he had run for a first down when we were up 2 scores in the 4th quarter.  If Trevonne Boykin shredded this defense I couldn't imagine what Bishop would do to it.

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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #142 on: November 24, 2014, 10:04:24 AM »
This is why we need to expand the field to Top 8, much like the CFP. Then there wouldn't be any controversy.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #143 on: November 24, 2014, 10:17:49 AM »
A big 12 title and a win in a committee bowl selection game would be top 5. I don't care who we played to do it either.

It would certainly be the top 5 accomplished, hell top 3 but circumstances absolutely matter and this isn't a top 5 K-State program & I don't care if they get into the CFP. The '98 team got no trophies that matter and if you think this team is better than that team then you are a fool. The only position where you could even have an argument to what the better unit is at wide receiver. I mean I don't know how this team could have a worse running back unit than '98 but they managed to do so.

I dunno, MIR.  While I certainly wouldn't make the argument that this team could even carry '98s jock in terms of talent ('cept WR), I think they would make for a formidable matchup.  Seems like a big part of this years success has been attributed to lack of mistakes, forcing opponents to make mistakes, and then capitalizing on those mistakes.  Bish was my absolute favorite QBcat of all time but his emotions would get him out of control and I feel like some of our worse losses can be directly attributed to 7 getting frustrated and doing something stupid or just trying to do too much on his own.  I truly believe this years defense would eat him alive.

That said, I also think its illogical to try to compare teams from different seasons, let alone different eras, since the game is always changing and the elements critical to success change so drastically every 5 years or so.  Obviously things like TOP, penalties, and turnover margin weren't such critical factors in '98.

What do you mean "some of our worst losses?" The only one we had Bishop was amazing that game, he didn't turn the ball over out of frustration, the one notable (maybe his only one I don't remember any other) turnover was a fumble he had after he had run for a first down when we were up 2 scores in the 4th quarter.  If Trevonne Boykin shredded this defense I couldn't imagine what Bishop would do to it.

The defense bailed him out plenty of times which is why many of his bonehead mistakes were not ultimately of major consequence.  Like I said, I think a lot of it is the product of the time.  When I was at the '98 NU game I thought it was the greatest triumph in k state football history.  I re-watched the game the other day and it was incredibly frustrating to see all the completely unnecessary mistakes and turnovers.  And with the way Mike would run with the ball like it was a baton in a relay race, I'm surprised he only coughed it up as many times as he did.

The only point I was trying to make is that I think it would be a good match up.  The weaknesses of the '98 team were the kinds of things I think this years team tends to capitalize on. Admittedly I have not gone back to rewatch the entire season, but it seems to me that the NU, TAMU and PUR games were not outliers when it came to mistakes and turnovers.

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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #144 on: November 24, 2014, 10:28:16 AM »

Solid season. Good job against a tough schedule.
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Offline kso_FAN

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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #145 on: November 24, 2014, 10:50:52 AM »
Per the greatest K-State team discussion; IMHO the 98 team would beat any other K-State team in a hypothetical series of 5 games and thus is the best K-State team OAT. 03 and 02 were really solid as was 12, but the explosiveness of the 98 team (on both sides of the ball and ST) is the best of K-State and would match up well in nearly any era of football. Bishop was just such a special talent that only comes along maybe once in a lifetime, and that's not to discredit Ell or Klein.

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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #146 on: November 24, 2014, 11:25:01 AM »
The depth on the 98 team was incredible - they redshirted Quincy Morgan for christ sakes.  All American Jeff Kelly gets hurt and misses a conference game?  just plug in an unknown rs fr from South Dakota and he will put up 10 tackles in the game as he develops into an NFL stud

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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #147 on: November 24, 2014, 11:36:25 AM »
'98 is the tops, but '97 gets overlooked a lot because of it. We didn't defeat too many ranked teams that season, but knocking McNabb and Co. dicks off was a real treat.

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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #148 on: November 24, 2014, 11:51:00 AM »
A big 12 title and a win in a committee bowl selection game would be top 5. I don't care who we played to do it either.

It would certainly be the top 5 accomplished, hell top 3 but circumstances absolutely matter and this isn't a top 5 K-State program & I don't care if they get into the CFP. The '98 team got no trophies that matter and if you think this team is better than that team then you are a fool. The only position where you could even have an argument to what the better unit is at wide receiver. I mean I don't know how this team could have a worse running back unit than '98 but they managed to do so.

I dunno, MIR.  While I certainly wouldn't make the argument that this team could even carry '98s jock in terms of talent ('cept WR), I think they would make for a formidable matchup.  Seems like a big part of this years success has been attributed to lack of mistakes, forcing opponents to make mistakes, and then capitalizing on those mistakes.  Bish was my absolute favorite QBcat of all time but his emotions would get him out of control and I feel like some of our worse losses can be directly attributed to 7 getting frustrated and doing something stupid or just trying to do too much on his own.  I truly believe this years defense would eat him alive.

That said, I also think its illogical to try to compare teams from different seasons, let alone different eras, since the game is always changing and the elements critical to success change so drastically every 5 years or so.  Obviously things like TOP, penalties, and turnover margin weren't such critical factors in '98.

What do you mean "some of our worst losses?" The only one we had Bishop was amazing that game, he didn't turn the ball over out of frustration, the one notable (maybe his only one I don't remember any other) turnover was a fumble he had after he had run for a first down when we were up 2 scores in the 4th quarter.  If Trevonne Boykin shredded this defense I couldn't imagine what Bishop would do to it.

The defense bailed him out plenty of times which is why many of his bonehead mistakes were not ultimately of major consequence.  Like I said, I think a lot of it is the product of the time.  When I was at the '98 NU game I thought it was the greatest triumph in k state football history.  I re-watched the game the other day and it was incredibly frustrating to see all the completely unnecessary mistakes and turnovers.  And with the way Mike would run with the ball like it was a baton in a relay race, I'm surprised he only coughed it up as many times as he did.

The only point I was trying to make is that I think it would be a good match up.  The weaknesses of the '98 team were the kinds of things I think this years team tends to capitalize on. Admittedly I have not gone back to rewatch the entire season, but it seems to me that the NU, TAMU and PUR games were not outliers when it came to mistakes and turnovers.

WAT??? When did the defense bailout Michael Bishop? How could your memory be that poor? Were you 9 years old in 1998?
66-0
73-0
48-7
62-7
16-9
52-20
52-7
54-6
40-30
31-25
33-36
34-37

I can't find how many fumbles Bishop had in 1998, but he only had 4 INTs


Also stop with the different era's stuff, there are still players in the NFL that played college football in 1998.

Offline KSU95

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Re: What if we finish 8-4?
« Reply #149 on: November 24, 2014, 12:00:01 PM »
Who is still in the NFL that was in college in 1998?...  (no kickers please)