Sean is not head coach material

[MakeItRain]

Sean would need to assemble a solid staff.  I do not believe he could do that. I need to believe he could before I would support the hire in anyway.

I don't understand why people isolate this to just Sean, this is the case for anyone who takes this job. None of the usually mentioned potential candidates are coming with a staff. Sean, Venables, and the Muppet are all coming with serious warts and they're going to have to grind a little bit to put together a staff.

to be fair, you aren't trying very hard to understand why people think it's a bigger issue with Sean than others.

That's bullshit. I've acknowledged that people think he would have a harder time because he's never left, I've never denied that. I then ask who Venables is bringing with him and there is no answer. That's because like Sean, Brent will need to build the staff, he isn't a head coach, he never has been. When he leaves Clemson the perceived best guy for the DC position will likely replace him.

[kso_FAN]

Venables will earn a job because he's been a top defensive coordinator for years. He's worked at two top tier programs that won national titles while he worked there. Both programs he has worked for rotate in young staff much more frequently than K-State/Snyder has done, especially during 2.0. He won't have the perception (real or not) that he just got the job because his dad was a legendary head coach at the school that hired him.

[michigancat]

Sean would need to assemble a solid staff.  I do not believe he could do that. I need to believe he could before I would support the hire in anyway.

I don't understand why people isolate this to just Sean, this is the case for anyone who takes this job. None of the usually mentioned potential candidates are coming with a staff. Sean, Venables, and the Muppet are all coming with serious warts and they're going to have to grind a little bit to put together a staff.

to be fair, you aren't trying very hard to understand why people think it's a bigger issue with Sean than others.

That's bullshit. I've acknowledged that people think he would have a harder time because he's never left, I've never denied that. I then ask who Venables is bringing with him and there is no answer. That's because like Sean, Brent will need to build the staff, he isn't a head coach, he never has been. When he leaves Clemson the perceived best guy for the DC position will likely replace him.

well you either aren't trying very hard or are pretty terrible at logic. I wouldn't have a solid idea of who would come with ANY coach in the country - that doesn't mean that Sean is just as prepared to build a quality staff as any other coach in the country.

[MakeItRain]

Sean would need to assemble a solid staff.  I do not believe he could do that. I need to believe he could before I would support the hire in anyway.

I don't understand why people isolate this to just Sean, this is the case for anyone who takes this job. None of the usually mentioned potential candidates are coming with a staff. Sean, Venables, and the Muppet are all coming with serious warts and they're going to have to grind a little bit to put together a staff.

to be fair, you aren't trying very hard to understand why people think it's a bigger issue with Sean than others.

That's bullshit. I've acknowledged that people think he would have a harder time because he's never left, I've never denied that. I then ask who Venables is bringing with him and there is no answer. That's because like Sean, Brent will need to build the staff, he isn't a head coach, he never has been. When he leaves Clemson the perceived best guy for the DC position will likely replace him.

well you either aren't trying very hard or are pretty terrible at logic. I wouldn't have a solid idea of who would come with ANY coach in the country - that doesn't mean that Sean is just as prepared to build a quality staff as any other coach in the country.

I never once said this, not one damn time. Either you aren't trying very hard or are pretty terrible at logic.

Venables will earn a job because he's been a top defensive coordinator for years. He's worked at two top tier programs that won national titles while he worked there. Both programs he has worked for rotate in young staff much more frequently than K-State/Snyder has done, especially during 2.0. He won't have the perception (real or not) that he just got the job because his dad was a legendary head coach at the school that hired him.

Haven't argued against this either. As a matter of fact I've said this is THE argument for Brent. That doesn't mean he's coming here with some hotshot staff in tow.

[chum1]

Plus, you know that TONS of prospective assistant coaches will want NOTHING to do with Sean after his Iowa State game sideline antics.

[kso_FAN]

Venables will earn a job because he's been a top defensive coordinator for years. He's worked at two top tier programs that won national titles while he worked there. Both programs he has worked for rotate in young staff much more frequently than K-State/Snyder has done, especially during 2.0. He won't have the perception (real or not) that he just got the job because his dad was a legendary head coach at the school that hired him.

Haven't argued against this either. As a matter of fact I've said this is THE argument for Brent. That doesn't mean he's coming here with some hotshot staff in tow.

Oh, I'm agreeing with you. There is no guarantee Brent brings a great staff, but its much more likely he'd attract better coordinators/assistants than Sean IMO.

[Whisker Biscuit]

Assuming you believe a head coach is more of a CEO than a day to day "coach", a case could easily be made that Sean is much more qualified than Brent.  I'm not advocating one way or another, just sayin'

[MakeItRain]

Venables will earn a job because he's been a top defensive coordinator for years. He's worked at two top tier programs that won national titles while he worked there. Both programs he has worked for rotate in young staff much more frequently than K-State/Snyder has done, especially during 2.0. He won't have the perception (real or not) that he just got the job because his dad was a legendary head coach at the school that hired him.

Haven't argued against this either. As a matter of fact I've said this is THE argument for Brent. That doesn't mean he's coming here with some hotshot staff in tow.

Oh, I'm agreeing with you. There is no guarantee Brent brings a great staff, but its much more likely he'd attract better coordinators/assistants than Sean IMO.

Acknowledging that Brent definitely has a bigger circle of peers, I think they both essentially have the same plight, they will have to want to have coordinators who want to be a DC/OC at Kansas State instead of wanting to work for Brent or Sean or anyone else who has never been a head coach before.

[MakeItRain]

Assuming you believe a head coach is more of a CEO than a day to day "coach", a case could easily be made that Sean is much more qualified than Brent.  I'm not advocating one way or another, just sayin'

The one or two times Bill has expanded on this topic this has been his point. The conversation has been hijacked with stupid crap like nepotism and "Bill will just stay until they have to take Sean."

[kso_FAN]

Assuming you believe a head coach is more of a CEO than a day to day "coach", a case could easily be made that Sean is much more qualified than Brent.  I'm not advocating one way or another, just sayin'

That's a good thought. Plus, both the OC and DC coming to work for Sean would know that they will likely have a ton of autonomy in their role.

[KSURFC8]

Plus, you know that TONS of prospective assistant coaches will want NOTHING to do with Sean after his Iowa State game sideline antics.

Not sure this is true. Agree with it or not, Sean was visibly standing up for his players and team. If you watch at least some of the video, HCBS was standing there watching and wasn't making a single move to intercede or tell him to calm down. Implicitly, he agreed with his son's behavior. I'm guessing that as long as he doesn't do anything remotely similar to his subordinates, any assistants considering coming to work for him would have no problems with Sat.

[stunted]

ron prince assembled an amazing staff and he came from nowhere

[pissclams]

Assuming you believe a head coach is more of a CEO than a day to day "coach", a case could easily be made that Sean is much more qualified than Brent.  I'm not advocating one way or another, just sayin'

That's a good thought. Plus, both the OC and DC coming to work for Sean would know that they will likely have a ton of autonomy in their role.

sean will have one coach on his staff that brent won’t and his name is bill. could complicate things for sean

[WildcatPower]

ron prince assembled an amazing staff and he came from nowhere

Initially, he did.  He couldn't follow up though after the OC and DC left.

[KSURFC8]

Assuming you believe a head coach is more of a CEO than a day to day "coach", a case could easily be made that Sean is much more qualified than Brent.  I'm not advocating one way or another, just sayin'

That's a good thought. Plus, both the OC and DC coming to work for Sean would know that they will likely have a ton of autonomy in their role.

There's a scenario. Sean gets the HC position, fires Dimel (among others) and hires his Dad as the OC.

sean will have one coach on his staff that brent won’t and his name is bill. could complicate things for sean

[Shooter Jones]

Venables will earn a job because he's been a top defensive coordinator for years. He's worked at two top tier programs that won national titles while he worked there. Both programs he has worked for rotate in young staff much more frequently than K-State/Snyder has done, especially during 2.0. He won't have the perception (real or not) that he just got the job because his dad was a legendary head coach at the school that hired him.

Haven't argued against this either. As a matter of fact I've said this is THE argument for Brent. That doesn't mean he's coming here with some hotshot staff in tow.

Oh, I'm agreeing with you. There is no guarantee Brent brings a great staff, but its much more likely he'd attract better coordinators/assistants than Sean IMO.

I (maybe ignorantly) have always kind of looked at Kirby Smart and Venzy as the same situations. Kirby brought in an OC with 30+ years of coaching experience to Georgia and brought a young up and comer along with him from Bama as his DC. I could see Brent doing something similar (maybe young offensive position guy from Clemson as OC, and a veteran DC).

[Shooter Jones]

Oops, Mel Tucker (Smart's DC) has a shitload of experience. Not a "young-up-and-comer" at all.

[michigancat]

Venables will earn a job because he's been a top defensive coordinator for years. He's worked at two top tier programs that won national titles while he worked there. Both programs he has worked for rotate in young staff much more frequently than K-State/Snyder has done, especially during 2.0. He won't have the perception (real or not) that he just got the job because his dad was a legendary head coach at the school that hired him.

Haven't argued against this either. As a matter of fact I've said this is THE argument for Brent. That doesn't mean he's coming here with some hotshot staff in tow.

Oh, I'm agreeing with you. There is no guarantee Brent brings a great staff, but its much more likely he'd attract better coordinators/assistants than Sean IMO.

Acknowledging that Brent definitely has a bigger circle of peers, I think they both essentially have the same plight, they will have to want to have coordinators who want to be a DC/OC at Kansas State instead of wanting to work for Brent or Sean or anyone else who has never been a head coach before.

again, how would that be different from any other coach in the country? Even former head coaches in KSU's wheelhouse would be similar.

[kso_FAN]

https://twitter.com/Prehmmr247/status/935240347306795008

[ChiComCat]

All the reasons others have said re: Sean coaching hires.  He doesn't have experience outside of the program to make a lot of connections.  The nepotism look may scare some hires away.  If we hired Venables for example, I would be most interested in his OC hire as that is not his expertise.  Wouldn't be worried about defense.  With Sean, I would worry about offense and defense but not special teams. 

Maybe the biggest thing unsaid in this thread is that Sean isn't particularly qualified for the job anyways.  Assembling his staff would be his first major decisions as head coach.  Already being on the fence, I would want to see a lot of success there to convince me that he is the best coach for the job and not the coach I fear he is.

[WildcatNation]

LOL to anyone that thinks there is any remote chance we bring Brent in. I would literally put it at 0%, especially after the Leavitt news.

[Shooter Jones]

The nepotism look may scare some hires away.  If we hired Venables for example, I would be most interested in his OC hire as that is not his expertise.  Wouldn't be worried about defense.  With Sean, I would worry about offense and defense but not special teams. 

Agreed. One thing that does make me feel a little better about that with Brent, at both of his stops, those programs have had top 10-20 offenses damn near every year. Hopefully he has built relationships with many of those offensive coaches throughout his years at OU and Clemson, and could bring one/some of them in, or at least go to them for referrals.

I would support that and really be interested in who he could get.

[Whisker Biscuit]

All the reasons others have said re: Sean coaching hires.  He doesn't have experience outside of the program to make a lot of connections.  The nepotism look may scare some hires away.  If we hired Venables for example, I would be most interested in his OC hire as that is not his expertise.  Wouldn't be worried about defense.  With Sean, I would worry about offense and defense but not special teams. 

Maybe the biggest thing unsaid in this thread is that Sean isn't particularly qualified for the job anyways.  Assembling his staff would be his first major decisions as head coach.  Already being on the fence, I would want to see a lot of success there to convince me that he is the best coach for the job and not the coach I fear he is.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think "qualifies" someone to be a HC?  Success as a coordinator?  Being an assistant head coach?  Jumping from job to job thereby expanding your "circle"?  Honest question here.

[kso_FAN]

https://twitter.com/Prehmmr247/status/935240347306795008

Leavitt's defensive improvement for Oregon this season based on the S&P+. 

[CHONGS]

Sounds like a great hire for a DC.