Author Topic: Sean is not head coach material  (Read 20276 times)

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #150 on: November 30, 2017, 10:34:16 PM »
When I think "head coach material" I instantly think of Defensive Coordinator Tim Tibesar.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #151 on: November 30, 2017, 10:36:43 PM »
Mike Stoops was one of the best head coaches I've ever seen.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #152 on: November 30, 2017, 10:37:42 PM »
Defensive Coordinator Jerry Sandusky, leader of men.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #153 on: November 30, 2017, 10:42:03 PM »

Year   Coach                   School
1996   Mickey Andrews   Florida State
1997   Jim Herrmann   Michigan
1998   David Cutcliffe   Tennessee
1999   Ralph Friedgen   Georgia Tech
2000   Mark Mangino   Oklahoma
2001   Randy Shannon   Miami (FL)
2002   Norm Chow   Southern California
2003   Brian VanGorder   Georgia
2004   Gene Chizik   Auburn
2005   Greg Davis   Texas
2006   Bud Foster   Virginia Tech
2007   Jim Heacock   Ohio State
2008   Kevin Wilson   Oklahoma
2009   Kirby Smart   Alabama
2010   Gus Malzahn   Auburn
2011   John Chavis   LSU
2012   Bob Diaco   Notre Dame
2013   Pat Narduzzi   Michigan State
2014   Tom Herman   Ohio State
2015   Lincoln Riley   Oklahoma
2016   Brent Venables   Clemson

Look at this long distinguished list of successful head coaches, blown away at the number of conference champions as head coaches on this list, it's overwhelming

Offline DOD Take 2

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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #154 on: December 01, 2017, 12:07:20 AM »

Year   Coach                   School
1996   Mickey Andrews   Florida State
1997   Jim Herrmann   Michigan
1998   David Cutcliffe   Tennessee
1999   Ralph Friedgen   Georgia Tech
2000   Mark Mangino   Oklahoma
2001   Randy Shannon   Miami (FL)
2002   Norm Chow   Southern California
2003   Brian VanGorder   Georgia
2004   Gene Chizik   Auburn
2005   Greg Davis   Texas
2006   Bud Foster   Virginia Tech
2007   Jim Heacock   Ohio State
2008   Kevin Wilson   Oklahoma
2009   Kirby Smart   Alabama
2010   Gus Malzahn   Auburn
2011   John Chavis   LSU
2012   Bob Diaco   Notre Dame
2013   Pat Narduzzi   Michigan State
2014   Tom Herman   Ohio State
2015   Lincoln Riley   Oklahoma
2016   Brent Venables   Clemson

Look at this long distinguished list of successful head coaches, blown away at the number of conference champions as head coaches on this list, it's overwhelming

This is such a stupid point you’re trying to make. You’re going to find a bunch of dogshit head coaches that called plays at one point since there’s been like 1000 of them. You can’t just highlight 5 guys who had success without that background and act like that’s a fair comparison.

Offline DOD Take 2

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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #155 on: December 01, 2017, 12:11:58 AM »
Also Dabo is the only one on your list to make the jump at P5 school. Everyone else took their first HC job somewhere in the G5. Dabo also started with an interim tag. If Sean is HC material do what the others did and go after a HC job and win for 2-3 years at Rice or somewhere and show it

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #156 on: December 01, 2017, 04:04:27 AM »

Year   Coach                   School
1996   Mickey Andrews   Florida State
1997   Jim Herrmann   Michigan
1998   David Cutcliffe   Tennessee
1999   Ralph Friedgen   Georgia Tech
2000   Mark Mangino   Oklahoma
2001   Randy Shannon   Miami (FL)
2002   Norm Chow   Southern California
2003   Brian VanGorder   Georgia
2004   Gene Chizik   Auburn
2005   Greg Davis   Texas
2006   Bud Foster   Virginia Tech
2007   Jim Heacock   Ohio State
2008   Kevin Wilson   Oklahoma
2009   Kirby Smart   Alabama
2010   Gus Malzahn   Auburn
2011   John Chavis   LSU
2012   Bob Diaco   Notre Dame
2013   Pat Narduzzi   Michigan State
2014   Tom Herman   Ohio State
2015   Lincoln Riley   Oklahoma
2016   Brent Venables   Clemson

Look at this long distinguished list of successful head coaches, blown away at the number of conference champions as head coaches on this list, it's overwhelming
You’re going to find a bunch of dogshit head coaches that called plays at one point since there’s been like 1000 of them.

Cool, we agree :cheers:

Offline DQ12

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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #157 on: December 01, 2017, 10:22:45 AM »
You guys raise fair points by listing off the five or so coaches you named without coordinator experience, but each of those guys (except for Dabo) had head coaching experience before taking over a P5 school.

I'm fine hiring a successful HC that didn't have coordinator experience prior to being headcoach.  If Ball State or Youngstown or Houston or whatever want to take a chance on a position coach or ST coordinator, let them run that experiment. 


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Offline DQ12

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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #158 on: December 01, 2017, 10:28:16 AM »
When I think "head coach material" I instantly think of Defensive Coordinator Tim Tibesar.
But this is kind of the exact point I'm making.

Our special teams were GREAT in 2006.  Then Tibesar was given a role that required more responsibility, and he was completely exposed. 

I'm not saying that having an OC or DC title attached to your resume is all the experience I want -- I'm saying I want a coach to have that experience so I can have some idea whether or not they're capable of managing one side of the team at a high level. 

Tibesar obviously failed his test.  Sean hasn't even sat for it.


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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #159 on: December 01, 2017, 10:32:58 AM »
You guys raise fair points by listing off the five or so coaches you named without coordinator experience, but each of those guys (except for Dabo) had head coaching experience before taking over a P5 school.

I'm fine hiring a successful HC that didn't have coordinator experience prior to being headcoach.  If Ball State or Youngstown or Houston or whatever want to take a chance on a position coach or ST coordinator, let them run that experiment.

My point is that being a coordinator is clearly not an accurate indicator of success of a head coach, neither is having success on a lower level. The special teams coach thing is something specifically concocted as a talking point against Sean, evidence to the contrary be damned.

We don't do this anywhere else because it's silly. Wanna be CEO of the company, need to be the CFO first. You'd be a lousy president, you've never been vice president. There's no way you can step in and be the manager, you've never been assistant manager. It's a flimsy, silly premise, it won't stop happening though.

Offline DQ12

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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #160 on: December 01, 2017, 10:42:44 AM »
My point is that being a coordinator is clearly not an accurate indicator of success of a head coach, neither is having success on a lower level. The special teams coach thing is something specifically concocted as a talking point against Sean, evidence to the contrary be damned.
If succeeding as a coordinator isn't an accurate indicator of future success as a head coach, and having head coaching experience at a lower level isn't an accurate indicator of being a successful head coach at a high level, then what is?  Predicted ability to bring in assistant coaches?  Recruiting experience?  Do those work in Sean's favor? I honestly don't know because he's never really been asked to do those things.

I guess my question is, what is it about Sean that makes people supporting him go "yeah, this is the guy we should get"?  The only thing he's shown is that he's a good special teams coordinator and that he's done vague "behind the scenes" stuff for us.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 10:48:02 AM by Dlew12 »


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Offline PoetWarrior

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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #161 on: December 01, 2017, 10:49:15 AM »
Good job, Dlew12.

Offline DQ12

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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #162 on: December 01, 2017, 10:51:14 AM »
Good job, Dlew12.
I'm getting this post framed.

I remarked to my friend earlier this week that I was hopeful to see a Thompson video made by you.


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Online michigancat

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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #163 on: December 01, 2017, 10:57:19 AM »
Tibesar is a defensive run game coordinator at Wisconsin!

Offline Whisker Biscuit

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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #164 on: December 01, 2017, 11:13:47 AM »
My point is that being a coordinator is clearly not an accurate indicator of success of a head coach, neither is having success on a lower level. The special teams coach thing is something specifically concocted as a talking point against Sean, evidence to the contrary be damned.
If succeeding as a coordinator isn't an accurate indicator of future success as a head coach, and having head coaching experience at a lower level isn't an accurate indicator of being a successful head coach at a high level, then what is?  Predicted ability to bring in assistant coaches?  Recruiting experience?  Do those work in Sean's favor? I honestly don't know because he's never really been asked to do those things.

I guess my question is, what is it about Sean that makes people supporting him go "yeah, this is the guy we should get"?  The only thing he's shown is that he's a good special teams coordinator and that he's done vague "behind the scenes" stuff for us.

I can't speak for MIR but my point has never been "Sean is the guy".  My point is that the arguments made against him seem ridiculous and concocted to fit an agenda.  I actually surprised myself researching as many successful head coaches as i could think of with how many were never OC or DC.  I wasn't sure i'd even find ONE when i started looking.  It was also amazing that several only had one or two years experience as an OC or DC...not nearly enough for them to be considered "successful".   And I only researched the best coaches i could think of...Switzer, Osborne, Parcels, Meyer, Swinney, Saban, Harbaugh, Briles, Bowden, Belichek, Carrol, Tressel etc.  Of course some of the great coaches had several years of OC or DC experience, but by no means would i consider success as an OC or DC a prerequisite for success as a head coach.  That's the only argument that i was/am trying to make.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #165 on: December 01, 2017, 11:14:44 AM »
My point is that being a coordinator is clearly not an accurate indicator of success of a head coach, neither is having success on a lower level. The special teams coach thing is something specifically concocted as a talking point against Sean, evidence to the contrary be damned.
If succeeding as a coordinator isn't an accurate indicator of future success as a head coach, and having head coaching experience at a lower level isn't an accurate indicator of being a successful head coach at a high level, then what is?  Predicted ability to bring in assistant coaches?  Recruiting experience?  Do those work in Sean's favor? I honestly don't know because he's never really been asked to do those things.

I guess my question is, what is it about Sean that makes people supporting him go "yeah, this is the guy we should get"?  The only thing he's shown is that he's a good special teams coordinator and that he's done vague "behind the scenes" stuff for us.

It's coaching football, not brain surgery, so the keys to success are similar to what they are for most professions. I'd imagine it's a combination of knowledge of the game, the ability to have and carry out a vision, the ability to lead, and for most coaches some luck. You can't measure someone's fitness SIMPLY based on what job titles they've had.

People can not want Sean all they want, I don't care a bit, but those who are neverSeaners really don't have a basis to make a truly informed decision.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #166 on: December 01, 2017, 11:16:47 AM »
My point is that being a coordinator is clearly not an accurate indicator of success of a head coach, neither is having success on a lower level. The special teams coach thing is something specifically concocted as a talking point against Sean, evidence to the contrary be damned.
If succeeding as a coordinator isn't an accurate indicator of future success as a head coach, and having head coaching experience at a lower level isn't an accurate indicator of being a successful head coach at a high level, then what is?  Predicted ability to bring in assistant coaches?  Recruiting experience?  Do those work in Sean's favor? I honestly don't know because he's never really been asked to do those things.

I guess my question is, what is it about Sean that makes people supporting him go "yeah, this is the guy we should get"?  The only thing he's shown is that he's a good special teams coordinator and that he's done vague "behind the scenes" stuff for us.

I can't speak for MIR but my point has never been "Sean is the guy".  My point is that the arguments made against him seem ridiculous and concocted to fit an agenda.

Exactly. I have no idea whether or not the man will be a good head coach or not, neither does anyone else despite how many times they'll tell you otherwise.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #167 on: December 01, 2017, 11:20:27 AM »
It's coaching football, not brain surgery, so the keys to success are similar to what they are for most professions. I'd imagine it's a combination of knowledge of the game, the ability to have and carry out a vision, the ability to lead, and for most coaches some luck. You can't measure someone's fitness SIMPLY based on what job titles they've had.

People can not want Sean all they want, I don't care a bit, but those who are neverSeaners really don't have a basis to make a truly informed decision.

Well then, name me one brain surgeon that went on to be a successful P5 football coach.

YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT, YOU CAN'T DO IT!

Offline DQ12

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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #168 on: December 01, 2017, 11:24:05 AM »
My point is that being a coordinator is clearly not an accurate indicator of success of a head coach, neither is having success on a lower level. The special teams coach thing is something specifically concocted as a talking point against Sean, evidence to the contrary be damned.
If succeeding as a coordinator isn't an accurate indicator of future success as a head coach, and having head coaching experience at a lower level isn't an accurate indicator of being a successful head coach at a high level, then what is?  Predicted ability to bring in assistant coaches?  Recruiting experience?  Do those work in Sean's favor? I honestly don't know because he's never really been asked to do those things.

I guess my question is, what is it about Sean that makes people supporting him go "yeah, this is the guy we should get"?  The only thing he's shown is that he's a good special teams coordinator and that he's done vague "behind the scenes" stuff for us.

It's coaching football, not brain surgery, so the keys to success are similar to what they are for most professions. I'd imagine it's a combination of knowledge of the game, the ability to have and carry out a vision, the ability to lead, and for most coaches some luck. You can't measure someone's fitness SIMPLY based on what job titles they've had.

People can not want Sean all they want, I don't care a bit, but those who are neverSeaners really don't have a basis to make a truly informed decision.
I'm not measuring fitness SIMPLY based on job titles.  I'm measuring fitness based on previous experience and results.  I'm not saying "hire tibesar because he was a d-coordinator once."  I'm saying "don't hire sean because i don't see how he's worthy of the job based on his resume."  I've never been one to cry about perceived nepotism or any of that.  I don't care about Sean's last name one way or the other.  I just don't see what he's done to warrant hiring him to take over what I believe is a top 35 CFB program.

I'm not sure how you can measure the vague leadership qualities you listed other than looking at a guy's prior leadership positions and determining the success he's had in those roles.  I think it's hard to judge Sean in that respect because his leadership roles to this point have asked relatively little of him.

I can't speak for MIR but my point has never been "Sean is the guy".  My point is that the arguments made against him seem ridiculous and concocted to fit an agenda.

Exactly. I have no idea whether or not the man will be a good head coach or not, neither does anyone else despite how many times they'll tell you otherwise.
Well hell, I have no idea whether or not Sean, or Klein, or you, or me or anyone will be a head coach.  But I based on our relative lack of experience I can make as solid a prediction as can be made. 


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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #169 on: December 01, 2017, 11:25:05 AM »
I honestly think that the most important part of being a college coach is managing the recruiting/building/maintenance of a roster. Obviously you have to be crazy organized and maintain good relationships with a ton of people. I really would't care much about the strategery of it all if I was in charge.

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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #170 on: December 01, 2017, 11:29:30 AM »
My point is that being a coordinator is clearly not an accurate indicator of success of a head coach, neither is having success on a lower level. The special teams coach thing is something specifically concocted as a talking point against Sean, evidence to the contrary be damned.
If succeeding as a coordinator isn't an accurate indicator of future success as a head coach, and having head coaching experience at a lower level isn't an accurate indicator of being a successful head coach at a high level, then what is?  Predicted ability to bring in assistant coaches?  Recruiting experience?  Do those work in Sean's favor? I honestly don't know because he's never really been asked to do those things.

I guess my question is, what is it about Sean that makes people supporting him go "yeah, this is the guy we should get"?  The only thing he's shown is that he's a good special teams coordinator and that he's done vague "behind the scenes" stuff for us.

It's coaching football, not brain surgery, so the keys to success are similar to what they are for most professions. I'd imagine it's a combination of knowledge of the game, the ability to have and carry out a vision, the ability to lead, and for most coaches some luck. You can't measure someone's fitness SIMPLY based on what job titles they've had.

People can not want Sean all they want, I don't care a bit, but those who are neverSeaners really don't have a basis to make a truly informed decision.
I'm not measuring fitness SIMPLY based on job titles.  I'm measuring fitness based on previous experience and results.  I'm not saying "hire tibesar because he was a d-coordinator once."  I'm saying "don't hire sean because i don't see how he's worthy of the job based on his resume."  I've never been one to cry about perceived nepotism or any of that.  I don't care about Sean's last name one way or the other.  I just don't see what he's done to warrant hiring him to take over what I believe is a top 35 CFB program.

I'm not sure how you can measure the vague leadership qualities you listed other than looking at a guy's prior leadership positions and determining the success he's had in those roles.  I think it's hard to judge Sean in that respect because his leadership roles to this point have asked relatively little of him.

I can't speak for MIR but my point has never been "Sean is the guy".  My point is that the arguments made against him seem ridiculous and concocted to fit an agenda.

Exactly. I have no idea whether or not the man will be a good head coach or not, neither does anyone else despite how many times they'll tell you otherwise.
Well hell, I have no idea whether or not Sean, or Klein, or you, or me or anyone will be a head coach.  But I based on our relative lack of experience I can make as solid a prediction as can be made. 

dlew, MiR is just arguing for argument's sake.

Offline catastrophe

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Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #171 on: December 01, 2017, 11:30:27 AM »
I don’t want Sean as the next HC personally, but I acknowledge that he could turn out to be successful here.

Keep in mind there are some people on this board who still bag on Winston Dimel even though he’s got to be the best all around FB we’ve had under Snyder 2.0.

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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #172 on: December 01, 2017, 11:31:49 AM »
IMO the biggest knock on Sean is he's only been an assistant since 2010. That's not much time on the recruiting trail. I also don't know that he's won a recruiting battle? Who is the best recruit he played an instrumental role in landing?

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #173 on: December 01, 2017, 11:35:11 AM »
My point is that being a coordinator is clearly not an accurate indicator of success of a head coach, neither is having success on a lower level. The special teams coach thing is something specifically concocted as a talking point against Sean, evidence to the contrary be damned.
If succeeding as a coordinator isn't an accurate indicator of future success as a head coach, and having head coaching experience at a lower level isn't an accurate indicator of being a successful head coach at a high level, then what is?  Predicted ability to bring in assistant coaches?  Recruiting experience?  Do those work in Sean's favor? I honestly don't know because he's never really been asked to do those things.

I guess my question is, what is it about Sean that makes people supporting him go "yeah, this is the guy we should get"?  The only thing he's shown is that he's a good special teams coordinator and that he's done vague "behind the scenes" stuff for us.

It's coaching football, not brain surgery, so the keys to success are similar to what they are for most professions. I'd imagine it's a combination of knowledge of the game, the ability to have and carry out a vision, the ability to lead, and for most coaches some luck. You can't measure someone's fitness SIMPLY based on what job titles they've had.

People can not want Sean all they want, I don't care a bit, but those who are neverSeaners really don't have a basis to make a truly informed decision.
I'm not measuring fitness SIMPLY based on job titles.  I'm measuring fitness based on previous experience and results.  I'm not saying "hire tibesar because he was a d-coordinator once."  I'm saying "don't hire sean because i don't see how he's worthy of the job based on his resume."  I've never been one to cry about perceived nepotism or any of that.  I don't care about Sean's last name one way or the other.  I just don't see what he's done to warrant hiring him to take over what I believe is a top 35 CFB program.

I'm not sure how you can measure the vague leadership qualities you listed other than looking at a guy's prior leadership positions and determining the success he's had in those roles.  I think it's hard to judge Sean in that respect because his leadership roles to this point have asked relatively little of him.

I can't speak for MIR but my point has never been "Sean is the guy".  My point is that the arguments made against him seem ridiculous and concocted to fit an agenda.

Exactly. I have no idea whether or not the man will be a good head coach or not, neither does anyone else despite how many times they'll tell you otherwise.
Well hell, I have no idea whether or not Sean, or Klein, or you, or me or anyone will be a head coach.  But I based on our relative lack of experience I can make as solid a prediction as can be made.

You use all of these words talking about experience but if it's pointed out that he's worked with a hall of fame coach for 25 years, that wouldn't end the conversation.

Offline ChiComCat

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Re: Sean is not head coach material
« Reply #174 on: December 01, 2017, 11:38:07 AM »
You use all of these words talking about experience but if it's pointed out that he's worked with a hall of fame coach dad for 25 years, that wouldn't end the conversation.