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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: Trim on December 15, 2017, 03:51:52 PM
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We've touched on this before. How long does it take to get back the money that would have to be spent to be elite at football?
For example, rather than debating Venables or Sean, could Dabo and Brent and that whole staff be had for like $15m-20m/year, while knowing that all that extra expense could be made back and then some through increased revenue eventually?
I have no idea, but I hear how the most elite of elite coaches still aren't getting paid what their market value is for what they bring in. IF that's true, why not go for the existing BITBs? Start reallocating whatever big-time donation money is currently allocated for stadium stuff towards buying coaches, and use the revenue that comes in to do the stadium stuff later.
:dunno:
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Interesting question. Because we're not in a recruiting hotbed, I think it would cost us more than what market rate is. So Clemson, which is probably top 3 in overall coaching salary, is at $15 million already, so it's probably going to take $20 million plus for that staff. I'd say a proven staff could recoup that investment relatively quickly.
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Here's a couple of good articles on the subject. In terms of benefit to the university overall, not just the AD, an elite coach is worth every penny. When you factor in increased enrollment, exposure, etc. it wouldn't take long at all to recoup the investment.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/sec/2017/10/25/nick-saban-underpaid-more-than-11-million-season/794275001/
https://herosports.com/collegefootball/the-value-of-a-head-coach
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I don't know the number, because it will change from person to person...But there's a point where more money is irrelevant. They want rings to enrich their legacy. It really becomes about the game. This is true in lots of business. I invest in real estate and there are lots people that own well over $100M in real property, yet continue to play the game when there's no change in lifestyle by continuing the success.
Would a 25% raise (or whatever) be enough to lure elite,proven coaches to k-state? I'm skeptical.
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Publicly offer to make their all their assistant coaches millionaires and set for life. Let the assistants sell their HC’s on it.
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What's the ROI of your mother?
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What you are missing is that paying $20m or even $50m doesn't GUARANTEE you a NC (or even a winning program for that matter). If it did, it would be a relatively easy decision. The ROI on a $20m coaching staff that regularly wins 8-10 games (at KSU) would likely be a large negative number.
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What's the ROI of your mother?
:lol:
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Sounds like we should try it. I'd be fine with having our Fatty Fund money rerouted towards the Elite Football Coach Fund with the understanding that KSU would soon have so much money that the library renovations could go forward with the money found in Anderson Hall couch cushions and we'd still get to name the room for Fatty.
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What you are missing is that paying $20m or even $50m doesn't GUARANTEE you a NC (or even a winning program for that matter). If it did, it would be a relatively easy decision. The ROI on a $20m coaching staff that regularly wins 8-10 games (at KSU) would likely be a large negative number.
We paid Snyder much less (given we got a little lucky with him) and were getting 9-11 win seasons and look what it did for K-State and the city pf Manhattan... that man has paid for himself ten-fold... imagine what we could do with another 11 wim coach and some more hardware... it's a long term play, but it would at least break even.
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What you are missing is that paying $20m or even $50m doesn't GUARANTEE you a NC (or even a winning program for that matter). If it did, it would be a relatively easy decision. The ROI on a $20m coaching staff that regularly wins 8-10 games (at KSU) would likely be a large negative number.
Are you contending that Urban Meyer or Nick Saban couldn't win here?
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What you are missing is that paying $20m or even $50m doesn't GUARANTEE you a NC (or even a winning program for that matter). If it did, it would be a relatively easy decision. The ROI on a $20m coaching staff that regularly wins 8-10 games (at KSU) would likely be a large negative number.
Are you contending that Urban Meyer or Nick Saban couldn't win here?
Not necessarily but they would be contending with challenges they do not have at Bama or OSU...namely the (lack of) opportunity to hand pick the very best players. I always chuckle when reading the posts about how Bill can't recruit. Look no further than the post season player recognition. His ability to identify and aggregate talent that works in his program is unparalleled. When you look at the list of "trash" recruits he brings in each year with only a handful of P5 offers among them, it blows me away how, 4-5 years later, several of them are somewhere on the All-Big 12 teams. Saban and Meyer could obviously attract higher profile players/recruits, but not at the level they can now. Could they win with a little lower level of talent? Probably.
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My dude WB has never heard of DITRs
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You have to remember that WB believes it's impossible for any coach to do a better job than Bill. So paying any amount of money is meaningless.
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LOL at Nick Saban not being able to recruit to Manhattan.
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LOL at Nick Saban not being able to recruit to Manhattan.
yes that's exactly what i said :jerk:
So Bama's 2017 recruiting class has 21 commits from AL, FL and LA. And i guess your point would be that those same players would now choose to play in Manhattan because Saban? He could obviously recruit quality players, just not to the level that he does now. I don't think that's even arguable.
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My dude WB has never heard of DITRs
Yes but where you and some other goEMAW ra-tards make fun of them, i embrace them. then i watch them garner first team All-Big 12 honors. :emawkid:
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LOL at Nick Saban not being able to recruit to Manhattan.
yes that's exactly what i said :jerk:
So Bama's 2017 recruiting class has 21 commits from AL, FL and LA. And i guess your point would be that those same players would now choose to play in Manhattan because Saban? He could obviously recruit quality players, just not to the level that he does now. I don't think that's even arguable.
I think it is very arguable. If you want to win championships, you should sign with Nick Saban. It doesn’t matter where he’s working.
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LOL at Nick Saban not being able to recruit to Manhattan.
yes that's exactly what i said :jerk:
So Bama's 2017 recruiting class has 21 commits from AL, FL and LA. And i guess your point would be that those same players would now choose to play in Manhattan because Saban? He could obviously recruit quality players, just not to the level that he does now. I don't think that's even arguable.
If Saban was here he’d absolutely still recruit at the same level he does now. The amount of direct flights from MHK to DFW would need to double with all the high profile TX ‘cruits coming in
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Are you people thinking that we should get Saban rather than Swinney? I think either would accomplish the goal, but my gut instinct is that it would go smoother with Swinney.
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Are you people thinking that we should get Saban rather than Swinney? I think either would accomplish the goal, but my gut instinct is that it would go smoother with Swinney.
Also way younger
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Are you people thinking that we should get Saban rather than Swinney? I think either would accomplish the goal, but my gut instinct is that it would go smoother with Swinney.
Saban's grumpiness is more our style though
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Are you people thinking that we should get Saban rather than Swinney? I think either would accomplish the goal, but my gut instinct is that it would go smoother with Swinney.
Also way younger
I've gone back and forth on whether age matters. Once we do this, it'll probably be copycat'd quickly and we'd have Saban stolen from us and have to buy a new guy anyway. On he other hand, if we were to commit to paying whatever it takes to keep our guy ($40m/year at some point???), yeah get the younger guy and have a couple DODs.
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Are you people thinking that we should get Saban rather than Swinney? I think either would accomplish the goal, but my gut instinct is that it would go smoother with Swinney.
Saban's grumpiness is more our style though
True. I was looking at it from the perspective of how this would be an outside-the-box way of doing things that will get a lot of criticism from all sides, including internally, and that Swinney might do a better job of handling all that. But there'd be something to be said for having Saban tell ever-y-one to go eff themselves.
Either way, getting one of them or maybe Urban Meyer is the way to go.
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Isn't Swinney a devout christian? Seems like that would go over huge with the tucks.
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Are you people thinking that we should get Saban rather than Swinney? I think either would accomplish the goal, but my gut instinct is that it would go smoother with Swinney.
Urban is the correct answer
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If we start paying $20 million everyone else will start paying $30. Imagine what Texas could pay.
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At what point is there diminishing returns on salary? We should be pushing the quality of life angle.
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If we start paying $20 million everyone else will start paying $30. Imagine what Texas could pay.
That's why it's important to shoot first, and use the revenue to maintain and then some.
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This tread has taken some predictable goEMAW turns but your initial point is something i have often thought about. There was a time when Michael Jordan was making $30m a year (far more than the next highest paid player) when he was BY FAR the most exploited, underpaid player in all of sports. I often mused aloud that every NBA team should pitch in money to pay him because he was so valuable to the entire league. It's certainly interesting to consider whether Saban/Meyer/Swinney are in the same boat? Although we paid Bill no where close to what the top coaches were paid, the same argument could easily be made for him and what he did for KSU...clearly he has been incredibly underpaid relative to the value he has brought to KSU. There is obviously a law of diminishing returns and he has moved us so far up the graph, the last amount of value would be difficult to obtain at a price (cost) with a positive ROI. And even if it was positive, it would be nowhere near the ROI we've gotten on Bill's hire.
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I'd agree with you if I thought that LHC Bill Snyder is as good of a coach as Urban and Saban, but I don't. Snyder is a great developer of talent, probably the best ever. What he failed to realize is that elite talent can be developed as well. His recruiting philosophy placed an artificial ceiling on his program. I get not wanting to recruit in season to focus on development, but he could have run a more balanced program but he didn't and he shouldn't get credit over coaches who do.
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This thread is about investing in being elite.
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I'd agree with you if I thought that LHC Bill Snyder is as good of a coach as Urban and Saban, but I don't. Snyder is a great developer of talent, probably the best ever. What he failed to realize is that elite talent can be developed as well. His recruiting philosophy placed an artificial ceiling on his program. I get not wanting to recruit in season to focus on development, but he could have run a more balanced program but he didn't and he shouldn't get credit over coaches who do.
i don't think that Bill is a better coach than Urban or Saban although it would have been very interesting to see what he could have done had he jumped to an elite program in the late 90's (assuming he would have recruited top tier talent...debatable) I DO think he did something even they might not have been able to do at a place they would have never even considered at any point in their career.
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My friends all think I'm crazy when I keep saying we should offer Belichik $20million+ a year and see if he would come...a man can dream.
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why would you want Belichick if you're gonna pay 20 million +
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why would you want Belichick if you're gonna pay 20 million +
Dude has 2 superbowl rings as a DC and 5 as a HC...
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Can't recruit
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I agree that coaches are more important than facilities and that we should pay a crap load and hire the best guy possible. I would've put ten million a year for ten years towards the best possible coach and staff before I would've built new vanier.
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Also, if the goal is to just have a .500ish conference basketball team that has no chance of ever doing damage in the tournament, then we should get rid of oscar immediately and replace him with an osu type hire. That alone would pay for a good o or d coordinator.
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We, as most colleges, do a lot of stupid crap.
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mike gundy routinely holds OSU hostage for better facilities and Jimbo sold his soul to the devil because FSU wouldn't commit more to facilities.
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Lol at mike gundy holding anybody hostage and fisher left beacause tamu backed the truck up, which kind of proves my point.
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back the rough ridin' truck up, that’s what i always say
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Lol at mike gundy holding anybody hostage and fisher left beacause tamu backed the truck up, which kind of proves my point.
IIRC, both of these ADs' spent a bunch of cash on facilities before or after they hired these coaches.