Author Topic: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.  (Read 13652 times)

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Offline treysolid

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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #125 on: April 01, 2016, 02:14:24 PM »
while i think businesses should cooperate with the government during criminal investigations once called upon to do so, i think there should be a reasonable limit for what "cooperation" entails. i don't think a company should be compelled to create a completely new product because the government tells them to, as is the case here.

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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #126 on: April 01, 2016, 02:36:30 PM »
while i think businesses should cooperate with the government during criminal investigations once called upon to do so, i think there should be a reasonable limit for what "cooperation" entails. i don't think a company should be compelled to create a completely new product because the government tells them to, as is the case here.

That is the current law, and not what was going on here.
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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #127 on: April 01, 2016, 02:40:08 PM »
At the risk of contributing to one of Edna's non-sequiturs, I respond as follows:

I am completely ignorant of a journalist's ethical duties with respect to his sources, but suspect such duties are fleeting. I think if their are circumstances upon which an attorney can reveal confidential client information, there probably are circumstances when a journalist can be compelled to produce sources (e.g., prevent a homicide or battery).

If it's important enough to prejudice a client, it's important enough to obtain from a dipshit journalist.

So both (journalists and lawyers) are supposed to act (tell) if a crime is imminent (roughly).  But that's not quite what I'm getting act.  This isn't like a journalist got a call from the San Berno shooters saying get ready to write your story at 3pm on Saturday.  Lets say the one of the shooters survived and the journalist met the shooter after the incident for an interview.  Should the journalist be compelled to tell law enforcement where the shooter is? /this is totally your opinion

If the person is plotting another mass homicide, yes. If the person is hiding in the journalists home or at his office, yes. If they don't believe there is any imminent threat of danger, maybe not. I don't really understand a journalists motives not to disclose their location in this scenario. Profits/prestige?
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Offline ednksu

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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #128 on: April 01, 2016, 02:56:55 PM »
At the risk of contributing to one of Edna's non-sequiturs, I respond as follows:

I am completely ignorant of a journalist's ethical duties with respect to his sources, but suspect such duties are fleeting. I think if their are circumstances upon which an attorney can reveal confidential client information, there probably are circumstances when a journalist can be compelled to produce sources (e.g., prevent a homicide or battery).

If it's important enough to prejudice a client, it's important enough to obtain from a dipshit journalist.

So both (journalists and lawyers) are supposed to act (tell) if a crime is imminent (roughly).  But that's not quite what I'm getting act.  This isn't like a journalist got a call from the San Berno shooters saying get ready to write your story at 3pm on Saturday.  Lets say the one of the shooters survived and the journalist met the shooter after the incident for an interview.  Should the journalist be compelled to tell law enforcement where the shooter is? /this is totally your opinion

If the person is plotting another mass homicide, yes. If the person is hiding in the journalists home or at his office, yes. If they don't believe there is any imminent threat of danger, maybe not. I don't really understand a journalists motives not to disclose their location in this scenario. Profits/prestige?

The goal is free and open exchange of information without the fear of government punishment or intrusion or other types of reprisals.  Deep Throat isn't coming to the surface without some anonymity (obviously the other extreme of free press). 

I'm just trying to get a feel for where you think the government should be able to compel someone to do something against their will.
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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #129 on: April 01, 2016, 03:32:52 PM »
Criminal procedure in this country is arcane and ever evolving. Criminals have far more protections here than they do about anywhere else in the world. There is no reason for me to re-write the law or attempt to understand or explain it's many nuances.

I think this thread is demonstrative of two things: 1) an ignorance of the existing protections in place, and 2) an unfounded paranoia that the government has nothing better to do than eaves drop upon trite and meaningless lives. If these libtards were truly scared of that, they'd be smart to insist drastically curtailing the size of the federal government. There's no reason it's employees should be spending all their time peaking in cyber windows.
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Offline ednksu

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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #130 on: April 01, 2016, 04:03:04 PM »
You do realize that a large number of the people bitching about this are right of you, right? Hardly libtards.
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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #131 on: April 01, 2016, 06:10:24 PM »
Cool story, bruh
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Offline treysolid

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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #132 on: April 01, 2016, 07:17:38 PM »
while i think businesses should cooperate with the government during criminal investigations once called upon to do so, i think there should be a reasonable limit for what "cooperation" entails. i don't think a company should be compelled to create a completely new product because the government tells them to, as is the case here.

That is the current law, and not what was going on here.

except that it is, because software is a product. the govt was trying to compel apple to create a new piece of software that never existed prior to their request. imo, that steps outside of the bounds of a reasonable expectation of "cooperation."

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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #133 on: April 01, 2016, 07:56:45 PM »
Designing and application to unlock a phone isn't the same as designing software like quickbooks.

Apple is the bad actor here. Theyou are always the bad actor. They spend millions of dollars per year in absurd patent litigating to keep phones and other technology out of the u.s.

This silly little program probably would have cost a few dozen hours of employee time.
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Offline treysolid

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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #134 on: April 01, 2016, 08:46:59 PM »
Designing and application to unlock a phone isn't the same as designing software like quickbooks.

It doesn't matter if it's flappy bird or labVIEW. The point is that it's a product, and a dangerous one at that.

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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #135 on: April 01, 2016, 08:48:46 PM »
its pointless trying to get FSD to understand, its never gonna happen

Offline ednksu

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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #136 on: April 01, 2016, 09:33:32 PM »
its pointless trying to get FSD to understand, its never gonna happen

I don't think he understands exactly what encryption is. 

FSD Apple doesn't have keys or a skeleton key to the encryption on the phone.  It would have to spend a great deal of time and effort to design a way around that. 
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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #137 on: April 02, 2016, 06:38:40 AM »
The hacks at the fbi didn't seem to have any problem with it  :lol:

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Offline treysolid

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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #138 on: April 02, 2016, 10:11:15 AM »
The hacks at the fbi didn't seem to have any problem with it  :lol:

the FBI didn't break it, a third party did.

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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #139 on: April 03, 2016, 12:42:55 PM »
For the FSD types that think government intrusion into regular individuals' privacy is some far fetched, conspiracy theory, I'd encourage you to do a little research on Stingray Surveillance that is employed at the local police department levels.  I thought that it was mostly tin-foil hat stuff too until I looked into that.


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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #140 on: April 03, 2016, 06:19:58 PM »
Oh boy, conflating concepts and non sequiter. Oh goE, don't ever change.

Hey Drew, I'd encourage you and other proponents of anarchy to read up on the English civil war of 1600 and something
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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #141 on: April 03, 2016, 06:22:33 PM »
Oh boy, conflating concepts and non sequiter. Oh goE, don't ever change.

Hey Drew, I'd encourage you and other proponents of anarchy to read up on the English civil war of 1600 and something

I'd like for you to read up on laws passed about that long ago trying to force Apple to comply. 

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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #142 on: April 03, 2016, 06:40:15 PM »
Oh boy, conflating concepts and non sequiter. Oh goE, don't ever change.

Hey Drew, I'd encourage you and other proponents of anarchy to read up on the English civil war of 1600 and something
It's "Dlew," pal!  :curse:


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Offline ChiComCat

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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #143 on: April 04, 2016, 08:16:30 AM »
Regardless, the gov having a third party crack it is the ultimate slap in the face to apple.

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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #144 on: April 04, 2016, 11:05:27 AM »
I would imagine there has been a hack out there for quite some time. They probably went to the FBI with an equitable proposal.

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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #145 on: April 14, 2016, 01:24:39 PM »
This is just absurd. Don't let fear drive you to be unreasonable. Whoever even first discussed the possibility of this bill is a rough ridin' idiot.

The writers of this bill have no rough ridin' idea how any of this works. They probably couldn't operate a jitter bug with instructions. This is the type of thing that opens us up to being the least secure industrial country in the world.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/13/technology/burr-feinstein-bill-encryption/index.html

Offline chum1

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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #146 on: April 14, 2016, 01:50:26 PM »
Seems like Apple was asking for it.

But I don't think the bill would be any more silly than the idea that devices need to be absolutely impenetrably secure in the first place. "Really rough ridin' hard to break into" is a sufficient standard.

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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #147 on: April 14, 2016, 01:57:28 PM »
Seems like Apple was asking for it.

But I don't think the bill would be any more silly than the idea that devices need to be absolutely impenetrably secure in the first place. "Really rough ridin' hard to break into" is a sufficient standard.

So laws should be passed as a vendetta when you fight the government over laws 250 year old?  That's rough ridin' stupid

How about you put your DOB and SSN in this thread for everyone to see, that's what this bill is doing to anyone with a smartphone.

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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #148 on: April 14, 2016, 02:11:04 PM »
Seems like Apple was asking for it.

But I don't think the bill would be any more silly than the idea that devices need to be absolutely impenetrably secure in the first place. "Really rough ridin' hard to break into" is a sufficient standard.

So laws should be passed as a vendetta when you fight the government over laws 250 year old?  That's rough ridin' stupid

How about you put your DOB and SSN in this thread for everyone to see, that's what this bill is doing to anyone with a smartphone.

Weren't you just talking about not letting fear drive you to be unreasonable?

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Re: Hope worms hack off.your.encrypted Apple.
« Reply #149 on: April 14, 2016, 02:30:54 PM »
How am I being unreasonable?  I was just telling you what this bill is going to do.