Author Topic: The Scott Pruitt "If the models are all wrong" thread  (Read 429464 times)

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Offline treysolid

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Re: If the models are all wrong
« Reply #1525 on: September 20, 2015, 03:50:07 PM »
I wish I was as optomistic about solar as trey.

don't worry, wetwillie - we'll use a combination of solar, wind, tidal and nuclear and we'll find a way.

Offline treysolid

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Re: If the models are all wrong
« Reply #1526 on: September 20, 2015, 03:53:26 PM »
If its cars we are mumped cause no one is giving those up.

Commercial buildings are so much worse.  They are far and away worse than cars.

Yes, concrete is a TERRIBLE carbon dioxide emitter.

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: If the models are all wrong
« Reply #1527 on: September 20, 2015, 04:04:09 PM »
I'm glad you brought that up Trey.   It would seem that the dude is playing extremely fast and loose with many things.   It's been discussed by many that we don't really know how much CO2 that volcanoes are producing and that the producing of CO2 by volcanoes has a degree of variance does it not?   Read like a lot of firing from the hip to me.   

Thank you for your speculation.  Would it be plausible that we have not discovered all of the natural occurring CO2 venting in the Ocean? 

EDN . . . as always you bring out your idiotic broad brush.   Tell me, who here is advocating that we do nothing?   Who here is advocating that new technologies should not be developed to reduce emissions?   

I suspect if China by itself reduced its emissions using standards that are being put into place in the G7 countries that by itself would reduce CO2 Levels.   I also find it fascinating that this administration has completely failed on Hydrogen. 


Online wetwillie

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Re: If the models are all wrong
« Reply #1528 on: September 20, 2015, 04:05:40 PM »
If its cars we are mumped cause no one is giving those up.

Commercial buildings are so much worse.  They are far and away worse than cars.

Yes, concrete is a TERRIBLE carbon dioxide emitter.

So we have to knock those down too?
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Online wetwillie

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Re: If the models are all wrong
« Reply #1529 on: September 20, 2015, 04:18:59 PM »
http://www3.epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/sources.html

This epa link says cars are the second leading producer of emissions slightly behind power plants.  Maybe I have bad data?
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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: If the models are all wrong
« Reply #1530 on: September 20, 2015, 04:22:05 PM »
In regards to a sixth mass extinction, I'd put AGW well down the list of accelerators to that (speculated) event.   Reducing CO2 levels I personally doubt will only have negligible impact on reversing a so called sixth mass extinction.   Possibly no measureable impact at all.

Offline sys

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Re: If the models are all wrong
« Reply #1531 on: September 20, 2015, 04:25:09 PM »
I wish I was as optomistic about solar as trey.


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Re: If the models are all wrong
« Reply #1532 on: September 20, 2015, 04:51:57 PM »
i think that says solar power is cheaper than regular electricity? 

everything i seem to find says solar costs like .31/KW but retail electric costs .13/KW


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Offline treysolid

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Re: If the models are all wrong
« Reply #1533 on: September 20, 2015, 05:35:14 PM »
If its cars we are mumped cause no one is giving those up.

Commercial buildings are so much worse.  They are far and away worse than cars.

Yes, concrete is a TERRIBLE carbon dioxide emitter.

So we have to knock those down too?

sorry, i should have said that producing concrete produces a lot of carbon dioxide.

Offline treysolid

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Re: If the models are all wrong
« Reply #1534 on: September 20, 2015, 06:03:27 PM »
I'm glad you brought that up Trey.   It would seem that the dude is playing extremely fast and loose with many things.   It's been discussed by many that we don't really know how much CO2 that volcanoes are producing and that the producing of CO2 by volcanoes has a degree of variance does it not?   Read like a lot of firing from the hip to me.   

Thank you for your speculation.  Would it be plausible that we have not discovered all of the natural occurring CO2 venting in the Ocean? 

you cite him as your source to justify why it's ok that our carbon dioxide levels are this high, and then you say that he's playing fast and loose?

while we don't know exactly how much carbon dioxide is emitted by volcanoes each year, we have a pretty good idea. according to the link that i posted earlier (and linked again below), humans produce more than 100X the amount of carbon every year that volcanoes do. there's absolutely going to be some uncertainty in the models, but probably not two orders of magnitude worth of uncertainty.

http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/climate.php

also of note is the fact that the data above uses the maximum/highest preferred estimate, which means they looked at all the models out there and selected the one with the largest volcanic carbon dioxide emissions. and that's STILL 130X smaller than what we contribute every year.

Offline sys

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Re: If the models are all wrong
« Reply #1535 on: September 20, 2015, 06:15:19 PM »
i think that says solar power is cheaper than regular electricity? 

everything i seem to find says solar costs like .31/KW but retail electric costs .13/KW

both solar and retail power vary widely in cost depending on where you live.  there was a deal in nevada recently where a utility scale solar plant signed a contract to sell their output for less than $0.04/kilowatt hour, which is lower than the cost of most coal and natural gas plants.  in the sunnier parts of the world, solar is already competitive with fossil fuels.

i probably could have chosen a better graph, but the point is that the costs to generate power from fossil fuels have remained relatively static, while the price of solar has fallen dramatically in recent years, and continues to fall.
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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: If the models are all wrong
« Reply #1536 on: September 20, 2015, 07:04:42 PM »
Fast and loose in regards to the one statement about volcanoes. 

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: If the models are all wrong
« Reply #1537 on: September 20, 2015, 07:52:20 PM »
I wish I was as optomistic about solar as trey.

Yeah, solar and wind technologies can and will improve, but they will always require a tremendous amount of acreage.

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: If the models are all wrong
« Reply #1538 on: September 20, 2015, 09:02:46 PM »
I wish I was as optomistic about solar as trey.

Yeah, solar and wind technologies can and will improve, but they will always require a tremendous amount of acreage.

Windmills can be farmed around with almost no impact, but using worthless desert for solar is, for some reason, a problem for environmentalists. 

Offline ednksu

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Re: If the models are all wrong
« Reply #1539 on: September 21, 2015, 12:45:58 AM »
I'm glad you brought that up Trey.   It would seem that the dude is playing extremely fast and loose with many things.   It's been discussed by many that we don't really know how much CO2 that volcanoes are producing and that the producing of CO2 by volcanoes has a degree of variance does it not?   Read like a lot of firing from the hip to me.   

Thank you for your speculation.  Would it be plausible that we have not discovered all of the natural occurring CO2 venting in the Ocean? 

EDN . . . as always you bring out your idiotic broad brush.   Tell me, who here is advocating that we do nothing?   Who here is advocating that new technologies should not be developed to reduce emissions?   

I suspect if China by itself reduced its emissions using standards that are being put into place in the G7 countries that by itself would reduce CO2 Levels.   I also find it fascinating that this administration has completely failed on Hydrogen.

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It's also totally irrelevant.
And your own comments on developing nations betray what you're trying to gin up now.  You keep trying to lock us into this paradigm where technology doesn't evolve so you can make an argument about neo imperialism towards developing nations masquerading as benevolent environmentalism.  That construction totallys falls apart when you a) realize the science behind why the push towards clean energy is being made, b)that you can develop without fossil fuels (and actually will be in a better position for long term growth than the West because they don't have an oligarchy of fossil fuel money and infrastructure holding back the progress of their nations.) and c) you are locked into what scalable growth means now (or for you and KSU more like 15 to 20 years ago) clean energy rather than what development are on the very near horizon (think storage here if MIT is right). The weirdness in your posting is that on one hand you admit China could be a problem but with the other you are saying this fear of human caused warming is overblown.  You are trying to play both sides but instead you look like a model Republican with an other emphasized fear of China and a failure to see the power the US has to fix the issue or at the very least lead from the front (double irony since Obama, the Prez your side says can't lead, is making great strides and you can't give him credit).
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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: If the models are all wrong
« Reply #1540 on: September 22, 2015, 08:06:36 AM »
And your own comments on developing nations betray what you're trying to gin up now.  You keep trying to lock us into this paradigm where technology doesn't evolve so you can make an argument about neo imperialism towards developing nations masquerading as benevolent environmentalism. (LOL, I've never said technology doesn't evolve, I've clearly said Fossil Fuels will drive the evolution to the point that technology developed by the power of Fossil Fuels (and Nuclear) will supplant Fossil Fuels.)  That construction totallys falls apart when you a) realize the science behind why the push towards clean energy is being made, b)that you can develop without fossil fuels (and actually will be in a better position for long term growth than the West because they don't have an oligarchy of fossil fuel money and infrastructure holding back the progress of their nations.) and c) you are locked into what scalable growth means now (or for you and KSU more like 15 to 20 years ago) clean energy rather than what development are on the very near horizon (think storage here if MIT is right).  (The simple fact are renewable energy is not prevalent enough to drive the production of renewable energy manufacturing at this time.   To bring renewable energy online on a scale that's needed will require copious amounts of fossil fuels) The weirdness in your posting is that on one hand you admit China could be a problem but with the other you are saying this fear of human caused warming is overblown. (What I'm saying is that bringing one or two countries in lockstep of carbon emission standards of the rest of the developed nations will reduce CO2 levels, nothing more, nothing less)   You are trying to play both sides but instead you look like a model Republican with an other emphasized fear of China and a failure to see the power the US has to fix the issue or at the very least lead from the front (double irony since Obama, the Prez your side says can't lead, is making great strides and you can't give him credit).  (Saying that bringing China's CO2 emissions trendline in sync with the G7 powers is really a fear of China?  You truly are a whack-a-doodle!  Great strides is not done through deceit and avoidance of the people's representatives.   It's not done by vowing to destroy certain industries and putting people out of work, while catering to a specific corporate kleptocracy)

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: If the models are all wrong
« Reply #1541 on: September 28, 2015, 06:03:51 PM »
This goes deeper than I ever thought possible.  It is global.  Warmers are everywhere!

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/09/whys-gop-only-science-denying-party-on-earth.html#

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: If the models are all wrong
« Reply #1542 on: September 28, 2015, 10:38:10 PM »
Lol, don't question anything sheep.

Offline puniraptor

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Re: If the models are all wrong
« Reply #1543 on: September 28, 2015, 10:42:20 PM »
Thanks to science I think we can just evolve when globowarm become a problem?

Offline renocat

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Re: If the models are all wrong
« Reply #1544 on: September 29, 2015, 05:59:29 PM »
I have thought about this during a renoyoga humming session, and have concluded God is responsible for global warming.  With muslims, Indians, and Chinese reproducing like rabbits, the world's population is outgrowing it's ability to produce food.  We need warming in cold areas so we can grow crops and kill off critters that take resources from people.  God is taking steps to help us feed people.  How is he doing it I don't care - man action or a gawd fart; just need more food.  The alternative is bump people off.

Offline Mrs. Gooch

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Re: If the models are all wrong
« Reply #1545 on: September 30, 2015, 09:56:08 AM »
I have thought about this during a renoyoga humming session, and have concluded God is responsible for global warming.  With muslims, Indians, and Chinese reproducing like rabbits, the world's population is outgrowing it's ability to produce food.  We need warming in cold areas so we can grow crops and kill off critters that take resources from people.  God is taking steps to help us feed people.  How is he doing it I don't care - man action or a gawd fart; just need more food.  The alternative is bump people off.

Isn't God responsible for ever-y-thing?

Offline Ptolemy

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Global Warming
« Reply #1546 on: October 15, 2015, 10:59:42 PM »
Whom among you believes that man causes the planet's environment - temperature - to change?

I had a discussion at a recent tailgate with a KSU engineering student that floored me so I thought I would poll the masses on this fine tableau.

What say you?

Offline Cire

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #1547 on: October 15, 2015, 11:36:57 PM »
You go first

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #1548 on: October 15, 2015, 11:54:05 PM »
How arrogant does one have to be to think humans can effect the earth at all
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline sunny_cat

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #1549 on: October 16, 2015, 12:03:33 AM »
Jesus made the earth and is warming the earth