Author Topic: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!  (Read 18378 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline ednksu

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 9665
    • View Profile
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #50 on: March 30, 2015, 11:02:54 PM »
I would also urge people who believe that the market will sort this out to read the Heart of Atlanta decision. Although its pretext is race, it becomes very evident that the majority is writing a meditation on how corrosive these kinds of attacks on liberty are for the American project.  Race might have been the issue at hand, but its about the free access and exchange in society which cannot exist with segregation of any kind.
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 6713
  • 1cat
    • View Profile
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #51 on: March 30, 2015, 11:24:27 PM »
What about a store owner that would refuse service to another person based on political views? Same thing?

Offline ednksu

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 9665
    • View Profile
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #52 on: March 30, 2015, 11:43:15 PM »
What about a store owner that would refuse service to another person based on political views? Same thing?
define political views?  I'm much less forgiving in that regard personally because you are targeting someone for their political thoughts where as I find no relief for people targeting others because of the basic human composition (race, sex/gender, sexual orientation).  It is interesting that we do seem to place a higher regard to religious protection then we do speech and for sure assembly (I mean imagine requiring a permit for the peaceful exercise of religion). 
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 27695
    • View Profile
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #53 on: March 31, 2015, 08:13:15 AM »
What about a store owner that would refuse service to another person based on political views? Same thing?
define political views?  I'm much less forgiving in that regard personally because you are targeting someone for their political thoughts where as I find no relief for people targeting others because of the basic human composition (race, sex/gender, sexual orientation).  It is interesting that we do seem to place a higher regard to religious protection then we do speech and for sure assembly (I mean imagine requiring a permit for the peaceful exercise of religion).

We do require a permit for peaceful exercise of religion if you want to do it in the middle of the street.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 8395
    • View Profile
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #54 on: March 31, 2015, 11:56:03 AM »
The activists have really lost their crap over this, which is off considering:
(1) there is no material difference between this law and existing federal law, and more importantly
(2) sexual orientation is not even a protected class under Indiana law.

Thus, businesses can already discriminate against gays (aside from perhaps some municipalities with specific ordinances) regardless of this law.

The law appears to have been prompted by the Hobby Lobby religious freedom case, which was about Obamacare, not gay marriage.

What a ridiculous controversy.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Online libliblibliblibliblib

  • hyperactive on the :lol:
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 42870
  • good dog
    • View Profile
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #55 on: March 31, 2015, 12:04:08 PM »
A "wonks" appearance, what a thread  :love:
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

I think.you.are deep down.a.trans cowboy gravy eater.

Offline steve dave

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 62014
  • SP? all of that--->
    • View Profile
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #56 on: March 31, 2015, 01:03:01 PM »
I haven't really read what the law is other than the basics and have no idea how it differs from other laws but watching the IN gov back-peddle on it as fast as they can has been enjoyable

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 36472
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #57 on: March 31, 2015, 01:04:11 PM »
If it's just the same as the federal law, why do they pass it unless they're trying to send a big "eff you" to gay people and look like complete dumbfucks?

Offline Dugout DickStone

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 35184
    • View Profile
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #58 on: March 31, 2015, 01:05:02 PM »
If it's just the same as the federal law, why do they pass it unless they're trying to send a big "eff you" to gay people and look like complete dumbfucks?

no politician would ever do such a thing

Offline HerrSonntag

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 3309
    • View Profile
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #59 on: March 31, 2015, 01:14:04 PM »
Market forces do regulate this sort of thing best.  Everyone think the civil rights laws in the 60s ended segregation in private business, but the boycotts and sit ins before that did a much better job and were already moving the country in that direction.   
The price of freedom is the tolerance of others freedoms.  Boorish speech and behaviors are the cost of letting everyone have tier say and it's much better than the alternative.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 8395
    • View Profile
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #60 on: March 31, 2015, 01:23:57 PM »
If it's just the same as the federal law, why do they pass it unless they're trying to send a big "eff you" to gay people and look like complete dumbfucks?

Because federal law doesn't always apply. Over 20 other states already have the same or similar law.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Online libliblibliblibliblib

  • hyperactive on the :lol:
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 42870
  • good dog
    • View Profile
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #61 on: March 31, 2015, 03:17:19 PM »
 :love:
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

I think.you.are deep down.a.trans cowboy gravy eater.

Offline ednksu

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 9665
    • View Profile
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #62 on: March 31, 2015, 07:33:30 PM »
Market forces do regulate this sort of thing best.  Everyone think the civil rights laws in the 60s ended segregation in private business, but the boycotts and sit ins before that did a much better job and were already moving the country in that direction.   
The price of freedom is the tolerance of others freedoms.  Boorish speech and behaviors are the cost of letting everyone have tier say and it's much better than the alternative.

LOL

Yeah because making discrimination a federal crime had nothing to do with it.  I mean, read a book.
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline ednksu

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 9665
    • View Profile
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #63 on: March 31, 2015, 07:36:56 PM »
The activists have really lost their crap over this, which is off considering:
(1) there is no material difference between this law and existing federal law, and more importantly
(2) sexual orientation is not even a protected class under Indiana law.

Thus, businesses can already discriminate against gays (aside from perhaps some municipalities with specific ordinances) regardless of this law.

The law appears to have been prompted by the Hobby Lobby religious freedom case, which was about Obamacare, not gay marriage.

What a ridiculous controversy.

1) Youre so totally wrong.  There are extreme differences between the two. 
2) Yes, that is why we need to protect all citizens and not make these bullshit laws.
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Online libliblibliblibliblib

  • hyperactive on the :lol:
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 42870
  • good dog
    • View Profile
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #64 on: March 31, 2015, 07:37:37 PM »
but what about clinton in '93?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

I think.you.are deep down.a.trans cowboy gravy eater.

Offline HerrSonntag

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 3309
    • View Profile
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #65 on: March 31, 2015, 08:55:37 PM »
Market forces do regulate this sort of thing best.  Everyone think the civil rights laws in the 60s ended segregation in private business, but the boycotts and sit ins before that did a much better job and were already moving the country in that direction.   
The price of freedom is the tolerance of others freedoms.  Boorish speech and behaviors are the cost of letting everyone have tier say and it's much better than the alternative.

LOL

Yeah because making discrimination a federal crime had nothing to do with it.  I mean, read a book.
That's a revisionist view of history, the fact of the matter was that society was headed one way and lawmakers jumped on the tide and passed that law after the fact. You read a rough ridin' book.

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 36472
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #66 on: March 31, 2015, 09:43:38 PM »
The Soviets gave us a lot of crap about civil rights back then, too.

Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

  • Racist Piece of Shit
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15657
  • Kiss my ass and suck my dick
    • View Profile
    • I am the one and only Sugar Dick
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #67 on: March 31, 2015, 10:58:16 PM »
I, for one, will not be buying anything that says "Made In The Anna" anytime soon.
goEMAW Karmic BBS Shepherd

Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

  • Racist Piece of Shit
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15657
  • Kiss my ass and suck my dick
    • View Profile
    • I am the one and only Sugar Dick
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #68 on: March 31, 2015, 11:00:17 PM »
Who is the homophobe fashion designer that hates guys (may also hate blacks, but that could be a separate designer), who nobody boycotts because his close are so "tight"?

goEMAW Karmic BBS Shepherd

Offline ednksu

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 9665
    • View Profile
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #69 on: April 01, 2015, 05:45:22 AM »
Market forces do regulate this sort of thing best.  Everyone think the civil rights laws in the 60s ended segregation in private business, but the boycotts and sit ins before that did a much better job and were already moving the country in that direction.   
The price of freedom is the tolerance of others freedoms.  Boorish speech and behaviors are the cost of letting everyone have tier say and it's much better than the alternative.

LOL

Yeah because making discrimination a federal crime had nothing to do with it.  I mean, read a book.
That's a revisionist view of history, the fact of the matter was that society was headed one way and lawmakers jumped on the tide and passed that law after the fact. You read a rough ridin' book.
lol. Glad to see you never took a history class at k-state.

Also its clear you have no traps on the history of civil rights in this country.  The court cases and law were in tandem with agitation. Please go read about the early history of the naacp ldf and realize that none of it would have been possible without legal action, of any kind, happening first.

Staying crap like this is as dumb as saying slavery was dying out because of economic reasons.
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline ednksu

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 9665
    • View Profile
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #70 on: April 01, 2015, 05:47:58 AM »
Here's another good article from National Review (commence general leg pissing, frothing at the mouth, and complete meltdown by resident ProgLibs and ProgLibs in denial).

As Indiana University law professor Daniel Conkle, a supporter of same-sex marriage, explained, “The proposed Indiana RFRA would provide valuable guidance to Indiana courts, directing them to balance religious freedom against competing interests under the same legal standard that applies throughout most of the land. It is anything but a ‘license to discriminate,’ and it should not be mischaracterized or dismissed on that basis.” In this sense, the Indiana law would operate as does its federal counterpart.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/416160/indiana-protecting-discrimination-josh-blackman
mich's Atlantic piece rubs its taint all over this talking point.  If you can't see the substantial differences between the current laws and this one...
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline steve dave

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 62014
  • SP? all of that--->
    • View Profile
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #71 on: April 01, 2015, 06:30:02 AM »
I'm having a hard time following where everyone stands on this. Is anyone pro-this-law? There's a lot of anti-this-law and a lot of anger over people being anti-this-law but is anyone taking a strong pro-this-law stance?

Offline HerrSonntag

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 3309
    • View Profile
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #72 on: April 01, 2015, 07:32:04 AM »
Market forces do regulate this sort of thing best.  Everyone think the civil rights laws in the 60s ended segregation in private business, but the boycotts and sit ins before that did a much better job and were already moving the country in that direction.   
The price of freedom is the tolerance of others freedoms.  Boorish speech and behaviors are the cost of letting everyone have tier say and it's much better than the alternative.

LOL

Yeah because making discrimination a federal crime had nothing to do with it.  I mean, read a book.
That's a revisionist view of history, the fact of the matter was that society was headed one way and lawmakers jumped on the tide and passed that law after the fact. You read a rough ridin' book.
lol. Glad to see you never took a history class at k-state.

Also its clear you have no traps on the history of civil rights in this country.  The court cases and law were in tandem with agitation. Please go read about the early history of the naacp ldf and realize that none of it would have been possible without legal action, of any kind, happening first.

Staying crap like this is as dumb as saying slavery was dying out because of economic reasons.
In any case concerning the private sector you are wrong.  Restaurants and hotels were desegregating as a result of economic forces well before the civil rights act.  Schools and civic institutions needed laws passed because they are bureaucratic pits but you can't say the same about the private sector.

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 36472
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #73 on: April 01, 2015, 07:40:28 AM »
I'm having a hard time following where everyone stands on this. Is anyone pro-this-law? There's a lot of anti-this-law and a lot of anger over people being anti-this-law but is anyone taking a strong pro-this-law stance?
Lots of backlash against the backlash but even most of those folks are scared to really say it's a law that is both necessary and well thought out, which I think is a positive sign of progress.

Offline ednksu

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 9665
    • View Profile
Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #74 on: April 01, 2015, 08:16:25 AM »
Market forces do regulate this sort of thing best.  Everyone think the civil rights laws in the 60s ended segregation in private business, but the boycotts and sit ins before that did a much better job and were already moving the country in that direction.   
The price of freedom is the tolerance of others freedoms.  Boorish speech and behaviors are the cost of letting everyone have tier say and it's much better than the alternative.

LOL

Yeah because making discrimination a federal crime had nothing to do with it.  I mean, read a book.
That's a revisionist view of history, the fact of the matter was that society was headed one way and lawmakers jumped on the tide and passed that law after the fact. You read a rough ridin' book.
lol. Glad to see you never took a history class at k-state.

Also its clear you have no traps on the history of civil rights in this country.  The court cases and law were in tandem with agitation. Please go read about the early history of the naacp ldf and realize that none of it would have been possible without legal action, of any kind, happening first.

Staying crap like this is as dumb as saying slavery was dying out because of economic reasons.
In any case concerning the private sector you are wrong.  Restaurants and hotels were desegregating as a result of economic forces well before the civil rights act.  Schools and civic institutions needed laws passed because they are bureaucratic pits but you can't say the same about the private sector.
THIS CAN'T GET ANY BETTER

I usually don't do this, but how about a little bit of proof?  I only ask because Heart of Atlanta, the landmark case for desegregating this exact point wasn't until '64.  Because its irrefutable that it took a combination of measures to break open these places culminating in the mid 60s and not as you suggest in the 50s. 

I'll wait for some Napolitano bullshit.
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting