Author Topic: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!  (Read 18420 times)

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Offline renocat

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Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« on: March 29, 2015, 10:11:39 PM »
The gay community has declared war on Indiana.  The state passed a law that said government could not have a law that forces a business to do something against their religious beliefs.  My first reaction was hot damn we are fighting back, but then I remembered similar arguements used against minorities.  If you are in business catering to the public you best should willing to serve anyone who is legal.  My problem is when this community forces Christian ministers to marry them.


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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2015, 10:13:08 PM »
you have to keep your eye on the gay community
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

I think.you.are deep down.a.trans cowboy gravy eater.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2015, 10:17:07 PM »
 
The gay community has declared war on Indiana.  The state passed a law that said government could not have a law that forces a business to do something against their religious beliefs.  My first reaction was hot damn we are fighting back, but then I remembered similar arguements used against minorities.  If you are in business catering to the public you best should willing to serve anyone who is legal.  My problem is when this community forces Christian ministers to marry them.

Can't people shop where they want?

Offline ednksu

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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2015, 12:28:40 AM »
LOL @ reno
show me where Christian ministers are forced you marry anyone.

Oh and Reno appears to be a bigot.  I'm glad more states are being brought to heel by the courts so people like you can't deny the civil rights of others. Hopefully the Supreme Court acts in accordance with the spirit of our constitution and forbids people like Reno from destroying the lives of other people.
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KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

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Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2015, 09:10:33 AM »
Wasn't this all spawned by the cake shop (in Colorado?) that refused to make a wedding cake for a gay couple? I think she was within her rights to do that. The owner said she had no problem serving them anything else - she just refused to make the wedding cake because she opposed gay marriage as a matter of religious principle. I think we should all respect that and move on.

But as a matter of federal law and the law in most states (I think including Indiana), discrimination by private businesses based on sexual orientation is not even prohibited. So, I'm not sure if this religous freedom law was even necessary in Indiana. People need to calm down on both sides of the issue and learn to live and let live.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 09:17:40 AM by K-S-U-Wildcats! »
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2015, 09:17:03 AM »
Wasn't this all spawned by the cake shop (in Colorado?) that refused to make a wedding cake for a gay couple? I think she was within her rights to do that. The owner said she had no problem serving them anything else - she just refused to make the wedding cake because she opposed gay marriage as a matter of religious principle. I think we should all respect that and move on.

But as a matter of federal law and the law in most states (not sure about Indiana), sexual orientation is not a pretected classification under civil rights laws applicable to private businesses. So, I'm not sure if this religous freedom law was even necessary in Indiana. People need to calm down on both sides of the issue.

Probably true, and people can choose to boycott those businesses out of business if they want.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2015, 09:18:27 AM »
Wasn't this all spawned by the cake shop (in Colorado?) that refused to make a wedding cake for a gay couple? I think she was within her rights to do that. The owner said she had no problem serving them anything else - she just refused to make the wedding cake because she opposed gay marriage as a matter of religious principle. I think we should all respect that and move on.

But as a matter of federal law and the law in most states (not sure about Indiana), sexual orientation is not a pretected classification under civil rights laws applicable to private businesses. So, I'm not sure if this religous freedom law was even necessary in Indiana. People need to calm down on both sides of the issue.

Probably true, and people can choose to boycott those businesses out of business if they want.

Agreed.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2015, 09:28:49 AM »
Does the Indiana law extend protections to employees as well as business owners? I remember Kansas trying to pass something similar that would protect employees, too, but maybe I'm remembering that wrong.

Offline ednksu

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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2015, 09:48:36 AM »
Dem niggers would just quit trying to marry our women we could just live and let live.  /K-S-U pre Loving v Virginia //pre Heart of Atlanta
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2015, 10:14:05 AM »
Dem niggers would just quit trying to marry our women we could just live and let live.  /K-S-U pre Loving v Virginia //pre Heart of Atlanta

Didn't take long to trot that one out. Ugg.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline ednksu

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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2015, 10:31:05 AM »
Goodness gracious . . . completely off the deep end, that's our edn.

Sad
How is it off the deepend.  Please include relevant court decisions which have exact parallels to the discrimination citizens of this country are facing on a daily basis because of their basic human condition.  I'll wait.
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline ednksu

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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2015, 10:33:11 AM »
Dem niggers would just quit trying to marry our women we could just live and let live.  /K-S-U pre Loving v Virginia //pre Heart of Atlanta

Didn't take long to trot that one out. Ugg.

The fact that you see standing against discrimination based on the basic principles of humanity as an issue to be "trotted out" show you're a moral coward, a bigot, and a someone who is actively obstructing the freedoms and liberties all Americans should enjoy.
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline ednksu

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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2015, 10:33:39 AM »
Goodness gracious . . . completely off the deep end, that's our edn.

Sad
How is it off the deepend.  Please include relevant court decisions which have exact parallels to the discrimination citizens of this country are facing on a daily basis because of their basic human condition.  I'll wait.

Sorry I caught that Dax.  I see you on the wrong side of history. 
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline ednksu

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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2015, 10:37:07 AM »
Yes I intentionally went with the shock factor of that post.  But the reality is we have a class of Americans who are still de jure second class citizens in America.  crap like this in Indiana and however many other states are a thinly veiled attempt to enforce more layers of de jure segregation on America through the guise of religious liberty.  These exact same arguments were used in miscegenation issues. 
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline ednksu

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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2015, 10:41:10 AM »
No, what's off the deep end is your absurd analogies, your world view is completely warped, how sad that you literally see everything and apparently everyone who disagrees with you as being the worst of the worst.  Pragmatism . . . you don't know it.
Please cite court cases with exact parallels as I have. 

Because I don't see how Loving and Heart of Atlanta aren't exactly the same.  Both deal with social radicals trying to enforce their morality on people they don't agree with through de jure oppression.
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2015, 10:43:10 AM »
Yes I intentionally went with the shock factor of that post.  But the reality is we have a class of Americans who are still de jure second class citizens in America.  crap like this in Indiana and however many other states are a thinly veiled attempt to enforce more layers of de jure segregation on America through the guise of religious liberty.  These exact same arguments were used in miscegenation issues.

Drawing parallels between opposition to gay marriage and interracial marriage is a lazy, flawed argument. In fact, it is downright moronic.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/24/opposing-gay-marriage-doesn-t-make-you-a-crypto-racist.html#

Your post was not only stupid, you magnified it by inserting a racial slur. "Hey everybody, look at me - I'm making a really profound, morally superior argument and I'll use the n-word as an exclamation point!" What a dumbass.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline ednksu

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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2015, 10:43:19 AM »
You don't even know what I am talking about, you're the poster child for First World Problems.

Sad

No I know exactly what you're talking about.  I see you hiding behind bullshit.
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline ednksu

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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2015, 10:50:08 AM »
You're completely missing the point.

As usual

Sorry Dax, if you were on the right side of history you wouldn't have made that post to begin with.  You don't disagree with me, you disagree with progress. The fact you see me calling out blatant bigotry as "going off the deepend" shows the absurdity of your position.  How would you react if Reno or K-S-U actually posted what I did?  Would you cower in the corner and refuse to post against that kind of bullshit?  The reality is we have people in this country actively working against the enfranchisement of citizens in America.  We have a larger group who share their beliefs just enough that they will remain silent and say crap like "thats going off the deepend."  And we have a third group who will stand against the attacks on their fellow citizens.

Where are you Dax?
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline ednksu

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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2015, 10:51:43 AM »
Yes I intentionally went with the shock factor of that post.  But the reality is we have a class of Americans who are still de jure second class citizens in America.  crap like this in Indiana and however many other states are a thinly veiled attempt to enforce more layers of de jure segregation on America through the guise of religious liberty.  These exact same arguments were used in miscegenation issues.

Drawing parallels between opposition to gay marriage and interracial marriage is a lazy, flawed argument. In fact, it is downright moronic.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/24/opposing-gay-marriage-doesn-t-make-you-a-crypto-racist.html#

Your post was not only stupid, you magnified it by inserting a racial slur. "Hey everybody, look at me - I'm making a really profound, morally superior argument and I'll use the n-word as an exclamation point!" What a dumbass.
Hey bigot please read my entire post because you're under covered analysis shows you don't grasp the issues at play.


Edit:
WOW thanks for posting that.  It really makes it quite clear you are on the wrong side of history and have a fundamental problem with the rights of all Americans. 

First issue is the author clearly doesn't understand what marriage means in the modern context.  Okay I'll bite that it always has been gendered. Do you really want to go into what fem covert means?  do you really want to talk about why and where the legal precedent of spouses being prohibited from testifying against one another comes from?  Because if you understood those issues you'd know that marriage has improved dramatically over the centuries. The fact is gender is a social construct based on societal norms.  That means the authors flawed attempts at homogenizing marriage over all cultures if fatally flawed from the beginning.  The author totally fucks up his position further by noting this as a gender issue instead of recognizing that these laws are being based on sex.  At that point his entire critique is void.  Yes we should ask people to give up thousands of years of history on marriage so gays can have real citizenship.  Just the same way we asked for it to happen for women when we decided they had a fundamental legal identity which wasn't totally subsumed and destroyed because they were attached to their husbands, fathers, or brothers. 

Second point is that religion is constitutionally protected, but that doesn't mean you have the right to discriminate against someone because of their basic humanity.  That slipper slope would allow something you fear, the mass application of something like sharia law in America because my liberty of being an oppressive muslim would trump my wife's (remember since you hate evolving marriage law and custom from point one)  right to be a secure person and I could beat her and rape her at will because me religion, my gender, and my rights trump her's in your fantasy world. 

More on Point 2: OOOHHH it has deep roots in religious history.  You know what else does?  Banning mixed fabrics. With your logic taken to the extreme I should be allowed to strike people down for their trespasses of wearing poly cotton blends, because my religion says I should cast down all who stand for "abominations".  Further more the bible's term for homosexuality being wrong is properly translated into a religious felony of sorts with no scale of standard.  That means it could be in violation of a felony on the same level of mixed fabrics or murder. There is no context.  How about we give gays some rights and see if the world gets flooded.  If we stay dry I think we'll know which side Jesus was on. 


Point 3: rough ridin' wow.  Every time a glbt person has their rights violated that is a political emergency.  Ask a gblt person with someone on the death bed in a bigot state if they would like to have a say in their partner's end of life care.  Ask a gblt person if they would like to have kids through adoption with shared parental rights.  Ask a gblt person if they would like to have the same rights to pensions, health insurance, or legal protections as a straight couple. Yeah all of those are political emergencies which should be rectified.  The wait it out bullshit does only one thing: delay justice.  And as William Penn said justice delayed is injustice.  That is empirically a political emergency which much rendered just. 
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 11:13:54 AM by ednksu »
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline ednksu

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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2015, 11:20:25 AM »
I'm not even discussing the issue this thread is about, I'm discussing you.

You and your ilk paint, no check that, you fire bomb everyone who even slightly disagrees with you with the worst, most derisive, most polarizing kind of vitriol possible.

It's sad.  Again, you're the very definition of First World Problems.

Yeah the fact is Dax you're solidly in group 2 and possibly the worst kind of person to discuss this.  You are distracting from the issue at hand because you tacitly support it.  I knew that is exactly why you deleted your post.  The reality is we have millions of people in America who aren't full citizens because people like KSU and Reno are actively working against their rights.  I mean look at their posts!  " My first reaction was hot damn we are fighting back."  JESUS rough ridin' CHRIST.  They really think their entire way of life is under threat and they need to fight back because gays want to get married?  Stop and think about that Dax.  Stop and think about being a gay person and getting kicked out of your partner's hospital room. Stop and think about losing your kids to be wards of the state because you legally aren't their parent if something happens to your partner.  These aren't first world problems.  They are fundamental human problems where we've allowed people like Reno and KSU to say that they are under attack because GBLT citizens are finally getting redress of their grievances.  We must stop talking about glbt citizens getting their rights like its a courtesy and start talking about it like its a fundamental imperative for America.  We shouldn't need to equivocate on whether or not Mathew Shepard was an Emmit Till. 
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline ednksu

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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2015, 11:45:41 AM »
Actually I don't support it all Edn . . . I'm against all legislation of this type that has to do with fringe social issues that fall outside of the purview of core and vastly more important equal rights legislation and laws.   I'm against defense of  marriage legislation, I'm against absurd legislation like Brownback tried to pass about government workers refusing service based on personnel beliefs etc. etc. etc. 

You're now not painting with an extremely broad brush, you're painting with a commercial grade sprayer.

Sad, but typical of edn.

Dax: "no dude, I totally support people's rights*......"



*as long as its politically easy and I don't have to examine my own beliefs and make a public stand because ya know, enfranchising citizens is a fringe social issue
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline ednksu

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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2015, 11:58:10 AM »
No, because I actually live in a world that pretty much understands that the vast majority of businesses (for example) don't give a crap if someone is gay or don't care about the color of someone's skin.   I also understand that those that discriminate either get dealt with via the laws that already exist or via other measures be they social, civil litigation, what have you. 

Again, you simply choose to continue to use a knee jerk gatling gun filled with bird shot approach.   Which is typical edn.
LULZ

I'm sure thats a comfort to gay people who have been disenfranchised that you know of companies which don't outright practice bigotry.  Please fwd that to place like Hobby Lobby though.  PS the laws that are being passed by people Reno and KSUW support are preventing "dealing with" these people, just so you know. 

But continue to not make a stand....
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline 0.42

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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2015, 12:05:25 PM »
how is everyone today

Offline ednksu

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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2015, 12:05:46 PM »
I've already taken stands at the voting booth (for example) multiple times edn.   But by all means, turn that sprayer up to a 11 and let'er rip.
by all means keep making this a thread about how you feel persecuted because you're being called out for not standing against the bigots in this thread.  Martyr complex at 12.
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline ednksu

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Re: Freedom is really not applicable to Christian businesses!
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2015, 12:09:34 PM »
LOL, yeah that's it.
See Dax you're proving my point with this thread. Instead of focusing on bigotry, you're focusing on me.  And thats just sad. Group 2 confirmed.
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting