Author Topic: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops  (Read 178423 times)

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Offline SdK

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #100 on: July 29, 2015, 03:18:01 PM »
Oh my. Jesus Christ.

Offline Frankenklein

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #101 on: July 29, 2015, 03:42:32 PM »
 :confused:

Offline Mrs. Gooch

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #102 on: July 29, 2015, 04:32:13 PM »
Wow.

Offline CNS

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #103 on: July 29, 2015, 04:45:34 PM »
Traffic cops shouldn't have guns.

Offline Canary

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #104 on: July 29, 2015, 04:48:15 PM »
That was extreme. Could have been avoided by both parties. 

Offline CNS

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #105 on: July 29, 2015, 04:50:22 PM »
That was extreme. Could have been avoided by both parties.

The guy in the car didn't want to make the news.  The cop hadn't established anything was wrong, other than no front plate. 

Offline CNS

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #106 on: July 29, 2015, 04:52:44 PM »
Eric Garner's family was awarded almost $6M.  Now the court is refusing to release the grand jury minutes.


Public employee.  Public government.  Public tax dollars payout.   how in the eff is any of this not immediately available to anyone who requests it?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/29/us-usa-garner-appeal-idUSKCN0Q32M020150729

Offline michigancat

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #107 on: July 29, 2015, 04:54:14 PM »
"could have been avoided by both parties" makes it sound like the unarmed guy who got shot in the head for not having a driver's license was as much to blame as the guy that shot him
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 05:32:39 PM by michigancat »

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #108 on: July 29, 2015, 04:55:58 PM »
"could have been avoided both parties" makes it sound like the unarmed guy who got shot in the head for not having a driver's license was as much to blame as the guy that shot him

He had a driver's license.  He didn't have one of his license plates.  Like everyone in Kansas

Offline michigancat

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #109 on: July 29, 2015, 05:04:16 PM »
"could have been avoided both parties" makes it sound like the unarmed guy who got shot in the head for not having a driver's license was as much to blame as the guy that shot him

He had a driver's license.  He didn't have one of his license plates.  Like everyone in Kansas
He could have been in Kansas and avoided the whole thing!
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 05:32:17 PM by michigancat »

Offline Canary

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #110 on: July 29, 2015, 05:06:37 PM »
That wasn't my point, but I see how some might make that comparison. 

Offline Asteriskhead

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #111 on: July 29, 2015, 06:08:24 PM »
That wasn't my point, but I see how some might make that comparison.

I'd like you to articulate your point so I can pick it apart.

edit: I don't think I really need to. CNS hit the most important points. Any officer with actual training would have made their intentions clear before trying to open the door of the vehicle. That was the biggest clusterfuck of a traffic stop that I've ever laid eyes upon.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 06:16:51 PM by roidhead »

Offline Mrs. Gooch

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #112 on: July 29, 2015, 06:50:32 PM »
"could have been avoided both parties" makes it sound like the unarmed guy who got shot in the head for not having a driver's license was as much to blame as the guy that shot him

He had a driver's license.  He didn't have one of his license plates.  Like everyone in Kansas

He didn't have his driver's license on him, but I don't think that the death penalty is an acceptable punishment for that.

Offline wetwillie

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #113 on: July 29, 2015, 07:27:56 PM »
Ive rewatched a few times and still cant believe it.
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline CNS

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #114 on: July 29, 2015, 08:10:37 PM »
If he doesn't get life there should be riots

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Offline ednksu

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #115 on: July 30, 2015, 11:54:26 AM »
I'm honestly really torn on this.  When I heard the DA's comments I thought for sure it would be an open and shut case, but I'm not so sure.  I will say I am a cop apologist in 99% of the cases to get that out of the way. 

I think this video literally shows the act was one second too late from being a "clean shoot" and one second too early to be murder.  This great little site allows you to move this video frame by frame to see (kinda) when stuff really occurs.  And it allows you to go in slower speeds. 
http://rowvid.com/?v=Z0cdejrSjyc&t=105.00&s=0.25


I have to run and I'll be back for more, since I know many will think I'm insane.  I would urge people to look at 1:52-1:56.  Notice the car being started and put into gear.  But also notice how the cop has his gun out in literally one second 1:54 if I recall, with the death at 1:55.  I haven't seen an un-edited (gore warning that is) video yet, which I think it necessary to get a better understanding of the shot/how far they moved/and whether or not the grappled in the car.
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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #116 on: July 30, 2015, 12:28:17 PM »
I'm honestly really torn on this.  When I heard the DA's comments I thought for sure it would be an open and shut case, but I'm not so sure.  I will say I am a cop apologist in 99% of the cases to get that out of the way. 

I think this video literally shows the act was one second too late from being a "clean shoot" and one second too early to be murder.  This great little site allows you to move this video frame by frame to see (kinda) when stuff really occurs.  And it allows you to go in slower speeds. 
http://rowvid.com/?v=Z0cdejrSjyc&t=105.00&s=0.25


I have to run and I'll be back for more, since I know many will think I'm insane.  I would urge people to look at 1:52-1:56.  Notice the car being started and put into gear.  But also notice how the cop has his gun out in literally one second 1:54 if I recall, with the death at 1:55.  I haven't seen an un-edited (gore warning that is) video yet, which I think it necessary to get a better understanding of the shot/how far they moved/and whether or not the grappled in the car.

What would have made this a "clean shoot" 1 second earlier? As far as I can tell, the only thing that could have made this a clean shoot would be a body cam malfunction.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 01:12:33 PM by Rage Against the McKee »

Offline steve dave

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #117 on: July 30, 2015, 12:38:55 PM »
I'm honestly really torn on this.  When I heard the DA's comments I thought for sure it would be an open and shut case, but I'm not so sure.  I will say I am a cop apologist in 99% of the cases to get that out of the way. 

I think this video literally shows the act was one second too late from being a "clean shoot" and one second too early to be murder.  This great little site allows you to move this video frame by frame to see (kinda) when stuff really occurs.  And it allows you to go in slower speeds. 
http://rowvid.com/?v=Z0cdejrSjyc&t=105.00&s=0.25


I have to run and I'll be back for more, since I know many will think I'm insane.  I would urge people to look at 1:52-1:56.  Notice the car being started and put into gear.  But also notice how the cop has his gun out in literally one second 1:54 if I recall, with the death at 1:55.  I haven't seen an un-edited (gore warning that is) video yet, which I think it necessary to get a better understanding of the shot/how far they moved/and whether or not the grappled in the car.

I'd be interested to see an example of the 1% of cases where you aren't a cop apologist after reading this

Offline CNS

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #118 on: July 30, 2015, 12:47:41 PM »
Prob cops shooting other cops.

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Offline ednksu

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #119 on: July 30, 2015, 02:45:09 PM »
I'm honestly really torn on this.  When I heard the DA's comments I thought for sure it would be an open and shut case, but I'm not so sure.  I will say I am a cop apologist in 99% of the cases to get that out of the way. 

I think this video literally shows the act was one second too late from being a "clean shoot" and one second too early to be murder.  This great little site allows you to move this video frame by frame to see (kinda) when stuff really occurs.  And it allows you to go in slower speeds. 
http://rowvid.com/?v=Z0cdejrSjyc&t=105.00&s=0.25


I have to run and I'll be back for more, since I know many will think I'm insane.  I would urge people to look at 1:52-1:56.  Notice the car being started and put into gear.  But also notice how the cop has his gun out in literally one second 1:54 if I recall, with the death at 1:55.  I haven't seen an un-edited (gore warning that is) video yet, which I think it necessary to get a better understanding of the shot/how far they moved/and whether or not the grappled in the car.

I'd be interested to see an example of the 1% of cases where you aren't a cop apologist after reading this

Eric Garner
the hold was a violation of policy and it was an illegitimate homicide.
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

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Offline ednksu

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #120 on: July 30, 2015, 02:48:54 PM »
I'm honestly really torn on this.  When I heard the DA's comments I thought for sure it would be an open and shut case, but I'm not so sure.  I will say I am a cop apologist in 99% of the cases to get that out of the way. 

I think this video literally shows the act was one second too late from being a "clean shoot" and one second too early to be murder.  This great little site allows you to move this video frame by frame to see (kinda) when stuff really occurs.  And it allows you to go in slower speeds. 
http://rowvid.com/?v=Z0cdejrSjyc&t=105.00&s=0.25


I have to run and I'll be back for more, since I know many will think I'm insane.  I would urge people to look at 1:52-1:56.  Notice the car being started and put into gear.  But also notice how the cop has his gun out in literally one second 1:54 if I recall, with the death at 1:55.  I haven't seen an un-edited (gore warning that is) video yet, which I think it necessary to get a better understanding of the shot/how far they moved/and whether or not the grappled in the car.

What would have made this a "clean shoot" 1 second earlier? As far as I can tell, the only thing that could have made this a clean shoot would be a body cam malfunction.

You flipped that around, but not a big deal.  What I mean is that if the shot if fired one second later, the cop has probably been dragged 10+ feet with the guy alive driving, trying to get away, thus excusable imo.  One second earlier and the car isn't on, not in gear, and a blatant criminal act. 


A few big thing people need to think about from my point of view:
Is a cop supposed to stop a fleeing suspect from a legitimate arrest/detainment by hanging on to a car?
Is a car a deadly weapon during a fleeing attempt? (Ohio statue isn't really clear here)
Is being dragged by a car an assault with a deadly weapon?

I think these 3 points are very open for debate and color how you see this interaction.
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #121 on: July 30, 2015, 02:52:21 PM »
I'm honestly really torn on this.  When I heard the DA's comments I thought for sure it would be an open and shut case, but I'm not so sure.  I will say I am a cop apologist in 99% of the cases to get that out of the way. 

I think this video literally shows the act was one second too late from being a "clean shoot" and one second too early to be murder.  This great little site allows you to move this video frame by frame to see (kinda) when stuff really occurs.  And it allows you to go in slower speeds. 
http://rowvid.com/?v=Z0cdejrSjyc&t=105.00&s=0.25


I have to run and I'll be back for more, since I know many will think I'm insane.  I would urge people to look at 1:52-1:56.  Notice the car being started and put into gear.  But also notice how the cop has his gun out in literally one second 1:54 if I recall, with the death at 1:55.  I haven't seen an un-edited (gore warning that is) video yet, which I think it necessary to get a better understanding of the shot/how far they moved/and whether or not the grappled in the car.

What would have made this a "clean shoot" 1 second earlier? As far as I can tell, the only thing that could have made this a clean shoot would be a body cam malfunction.

You flipped that around, but not a big deal.  What I mean is that if the shot if fired one second later, the cop has probably been dragged 10+ feet with the guy alive driving, trying to get away, thus excusable imo.  One second earlier and the car isn't on, not in gear, and a blatant criminal act. 


A few big thing people need to think about from my point of view:
Is a cop supposed to stop a fleeing suspect from a legitimate arrest/detainment by hanging on to a car?
Is a car a deadly weapon during a fleeing attempt? (Ohio statue isn't really clear here)
Is being dragged by a car an assault with a deadly weapon?

I think these 3 points are very open for debate and color how you see this interaction.

I think the cop is supposed to stop the fleeing suspect by getting back into his car and following him. He's not supposed to shoot somebody just because they are running away.

Offline ednksu

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #122 on: July 30, 2015, 02:53:56 PM »
I'm honestly really torn on this.  When I heard the DA's comments I thought for sure it would be an open and shut case, but I'm not so sure.  I will say I am a cop apologist in 99% of the cases to get that out of the way. 

I think this video literally shows the act was one second too late from being a "clean shoot" and one second too early to be murder.  This great little site allows you to move this video frame by frame to see (kinda) when stuff really occurs.  And it allows you to go in slower speeds. 
http://rowvid.com/?v=Z0cdejrSjyc&t=105.00&s=0.25


I have to run and I'll be back for more, since I know many will think I'm insane.  I would urge people to look at 1:52-1:56.  Notice the car being started and put into gear.  But also notice how the cop has his gun out in literally one second 1:54 if I recall, with the death at 1:55.  I haven't seen an un-edited (gore warning that is) video yet, which I think it necessary to get a better understanding of the shot/how far they moved/and whether or not the grappled in the car.

I'd be interested to see an example of the 1% of cases where you aren't a cop apologist after reading this

Eric Garner
the hold was a violation of policy and it was an illegitimate homicide.

Also if I understand things correctly with the timeline the other cop who supported the events in Cinci and probably wasn't in a position to view them should be charged with multiple crimes.  I would also be in favor of a felon level law with probably a 10 year minimum for official misconduct/breaking the public trust law that would apply to the other officer's false report.
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline steve dave

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #123 on: July 30, 2015, 03:31:04 PM »
ok, thanks for answering. are you in favor requiring body cameras for all officers?

Offline ednksu

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Re: not just missouri, best to avoid all cops
« Reply #124 on: July 30, 2015, 03:34:14 PM »
ok, thanks for answering. are you in favor requiring body cameras for all officers?
yes and any direct tampering is a crime and loss of job/benefits
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting