Author Topic: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....  (Read 3980469 times)

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Offline Duncan

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14025 on: September 21, 2011, 06:36:04 PM »

Lowering the field usually sucks because it changes the sight lines for the existing seats.

Even when the current front row is super far back because of a dumb track?  Seems like they could keep the grade of the stadium exactly the same as it descends to the new field level.  
 :dunno:   <--non-architect shrug

uh.  yeah.  lowering the field would provide for better sight lines.

Sight lines would stay the same.  Not better or worse.

Offline SkinnyBenny

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14026 on: September 21, 2011, 06:41:25 PM »

Lowering the field usually sucks because it changes the sight lines for the existing seats.

Even when the current front row is super far back because of a dumb track?  Seems like they could keep the grade of the stadium exactly the same as it descends to the new field level.  
 :dunno:   <--non-architect shrug

uh.  yeah.  lowering the field would provide for better sight lines.

Sight lines would stay the same.  Not better or worse.

Would love to see some sort of architect-y diagram that proves this.  You're telling me that if you're in the front row of KU Memorial Track & Field's bleachers and you're a mile away from the nearest out-of-bounds line but you're only 3 feet off they ground, you wouldn't have a better view if they lowered the field ten feet?  And you're also telling me if they extended the bleachers down into the new hole at the same angle and brought the new front row (at the same angle) 50 feet closer to the nearest out-of-bounds line, that this somehow would be exactly the same?

 :confused:   <---non-architect confused












Also, I'm using "sightlines" or whatever to just mean the general "ability to see action on the field in a satisfactory way."
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Offline kitten_mittons

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14027 on: September 21, 2011, 06:44:21 PM »

Lowering the field usually sucks because it changes the sight lines for the existing seats.

Even when the current front row is super far back because of a dumb track?  Seems like they could keep the grade of the stadium exactly the same as it descends to the new field level.  
 :dunno:   <--non-architect shrug

uh.  yeah.  lowering the field would provide for better sight lines.



This, but exactly the opposite.
I think he's talking about for only the front row or something.  Anyway, stop talking about sight lines.  No one cares.

Offline Duncan

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14028 on: September 21, 2011, 06:45:38 PM »

Lowering the field usually sucks because it changes the sight lines for the existing seats.

Even when the current front row is super far back because of a dumb track?  Seems like they could keep the grade of the stadium exactly the same as it descends to the new field level.  
 :dunno:   <--non-architect shrug

uh.  yeah.  lowering the field would provide for better sight lines.

Sight lines would stay the same.  Not better or worse.

Would love to see some sort of architect-y diagram that proves this.  You're telling me that if you're in the front row of KU Memorial Track & Field's bleachers and you're a mile away from the nearest out-of-bounds line but you're only 3 feet off they ground, you wouldn't have a better view if they lowered the field ten feet?  And you're also telling me if they extended the bleachers down into the new hole at the same angle and brought the new front row (at the same angle) 50 feet closer to the nearest out-of-bounds line, that this somehow would be exactly the same?

 :confused:   <---non-architect confused












Also, I'm using "sightlines" or whatever to just mean the general "ability to see action on the field in a satisfactory way."


Yeah, I'm using sight line to mean the delineation between non-obstructed and obstructed view.  Your view of the field would change.  But whether that is better or worse is subjective.  Sitting up high is better for someone, while sitting at eye-level is better for another.

Offline wetwillie

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14029 on: September 21, 2011, 06:46:13 PM »
The thread has turned into a circle jerk about sightlines,last one out turn out the light boys.
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline Duncan

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14030 on: September 21, 2011, 06:46:22 PM »

Lowering the field usually sucks because it changes the sight lines for the existing seats.

Even when the current front row is super far back because of a dumb track?  Seems like they could keep the grade of the stadium exactly the same as it descends to the new field level.  
 :dunno:   <--non-architect shrug

uh.  yeah.  lowering the field would provide for better sight lines.



This, but exactly the opposite.
I think he's talking about for only the front row or something.  Anyway, stop talking about sight lines.  No one cares.

I care.

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14031 on: September 21, 2011, 06:52:09 PM »

Lowering the field usually sucks because it changes the sight lines for the existing seats.

Even when the current front row is super far back because of a dumb track?  Seems like they could keep the grade of the stadium exactly the same as it descends to the new field level.  
 :dunno:   <--non-architect shrug

uh.  yeah.  lowering the field would provide for better sight lines.

Sight lines would stay the same.  Not better or worse.

Would love to see some sort of architect-y diagram that proves this.  You're telling me that if you're in the front row of KU Memorial Track & Field's bleachers and you're a mile away from the nearest out-of-bounds line but you're only 3 feet off they ground, you wouldn't have a better view if they lowered the field ten feet?  And you're also telling me if they extended the bleachers down into the new hole at the same angle and brought the new front row (at the same angle) 50 feet closer to the nearest out-of-bounds line, that this somehow would be exactly the same?

 :confused:   <---non-architect confused












Also, I'm using "sightlines" or whatever to just mean the general "ability to see action on the field in a satisfactory way."



Offline mcmwcat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14032 on: September 21, 2011, 06:53:13 PM »
The thread has turned into a circle jerk about sightlines,last one out turn out the light boys.

just taking a break before the next panic attack

Offline theKSU

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14033 on: September 21, 2011, 07:01:43 PM »



Thanks, will remember this picture next time I read one of your political posts. 

Offline Pendergast

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14034 on: September 21, 2011, 07:10:55 PM »
Those pictures are terrible, when you sink the field you add seats, so there's not some cliff at the end of the stands.  The 'sight lines' change, but imperceptibly to 99.9% of the seats.

 :facepalm:

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14035 on: September 21, 2011, 07:19:00 PM »
Those pictures are terrible, when you sink the field you add seats, so there's not some cliff at the end of the stands.  The 'sight lines' change, but imperceptibly to 99.9% of the seats.

 :facepalm:

 :facepalm: 

It depends on the pitch of the stands.

Offline ew2x4

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14036 on: September 21, 2011, 07:28:20 PM »
Those pictures are terrible, when you sink the field you add seats, so there's not some cliff at the end of the stands.  The 'sight lines' change, but imperceptibly to 99.9% of the seats.

 :facepalm:

 :facepalm: 

It depends on the pitch of the stands.

I can't believe it took 4 pages to get you guys to this (correct) statement.

Usually the slope of the stands will point to the outside edge of the track. The field can afford to be lowered. If the pitch of the stands lent itself to the edge of the field, it would not work. But that wouldn't exactly be a good design, now would it? Why have a track that nobody could see?

So yes, it depends on the pitch of the stands, but it almost always will be possible. Incredibly expensive, but possible.

Offline oodfan

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14037 on: September 21, 2011, 07:30:56 PM »
Sorry to interrupt this great architectural debate.....but how about a little history lesson from one of the greatest history professors of all timehttp://themercury.com/K-StateSports/article.aspx?articleId=3d2af06db8284de69292e4bd5d8d69a2

Offline Pendergast

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14038 on: September 21, 2011, 07:32:35 PM »
Those pictures are terrible, when you sink the field you add seats, so there's not some cliff at the end of the stands.  The 'sight lines' change, but imperceptibly to 99.9% of the seats.

 :facepalm:

 :facepalm: 

It depends on the pitch of the stands.


Not regarding the cliff you've put at the bottom it doesn't.  The height of the first row will more or less stay the same.  JFC the 'sightlines' won't change to the naked eye.

Offline Houstoncat93

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14039 on: September 21, 2011, 07:35:35 PM »
Also... (sitting here thinking)... all the Okie's are saying their leverage is not as strong since the announcement from the PAC, which I suppose is true, but on the other hand, really what leverage does TX have at this point? Who else in the conference do they have to convince to make these reforms other than TX??

Ironically, it doesn't seem as if TX has much leverage right now either because they've publicly said they favor staying in the BigXII, the PAC bridge seems burned (at least for now), ACC doesn't seem interested (plus kind of a weird move geographically), and they really don't want to be an independent. So a stable Big XII is the best option for TX by quite a large margin, so they basically have to concede everything within that margin, and realize that's the best they're gonna get, amirite?

 :kstategrad:

Texas' leverage is that they can keep doing the exact same thing they are doing now.  They don't need anything to change in order to get what they want.  OU has nowhere to go because they can't go anywhere without OSU, and OSU can't get into the SEC.  There is nothing OU can do to stop the LHN from airing the UT-KU game this year and 3 conference b-ball games.  Is the Big12 going to sue ESPN? No.  What is going to keep Texas from airing high school highlights?  UT's legal stance is that they are allowed to do it, that this was part of the original conception of the LHN when everyone in the Big12 decided to allow school networks.  UT will do want they want until OU leaves or sues.  There is no hard and fast rule in the Big12 that doesn't allow them to do these things, and I'm not sure the Big12 has the legal power to implement them now. 

If OU is serious, a simple vote among the schools could give them all of their demands. It doesn't take a unanimous vote to change revenue distribution or other conference rules. Texas will either have to deal with the results or leave.

Yeah, we can change the rules within the Big12, but those rules don't affect the UT-ESPN contract.  It's not just UT that OU is trying to affect, its also ESPN.  I highly doubt that ESPN will let the Big12 dictate the content they can show on the LHN.  If the Big12 forces content reduction on LHN ESPN will fight to reduce the $ to UT.  If UT led ESPN to believe that they could show high school content and multiple games when the contract was signed I'm sure ESPN would claim breach of contract.   

Regardless of TV contracts.... the conference's 8 other members can dictate rules for the conference as a whole (which then apply to TX), and TX relents because they have no other choice. Seems pretty simple to me.

I just don't think Texas can relent without backlash from ESPN on the LHN contract.  The question is who has more contractual power over UT, the Big12 or ESPN.  I don't know the answer to that.  My opinion is that it's ESPN because that puts more money in UT's pockets.  I just don't know which contract takes precedence or wording/power of the UT-Big12 contract.  Either way UT has problems that I don't think are going to go away easily.  I don't think they can just give in to OU/Big12 without ESPN problems.

Big 12 rules take precedent over anything in the LHN contract.  It is stated in the first part of the contract.  The Big 12 could vote to assign all 3rd tier rights to the conference and UT would either have to go along or leave the conference.  There is an out clause for ESPN that says the contract can be terminated if conference rules prevent UT from providing a "material" amount of content to the network.  It would be real interesting to see what UT would do if the conference did that.  I think there is almost zero chance of that happening but would be fun to see.

Offline I_have_purplewood

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14040 on: September 21, 2011, 07:37:52 PM »
Who gives a eff about sight lines you dbags.  Give me a tweet about T~Boone or something.....  Christ..

My new conference %'s are about ready to come out btw if anyone is wondering.
Fifteen minutes later, when the Kansas locker room opened its doors to the media, the Jayhawks were still crying. Literally, bawling. All of them. I've never seen anything like it, and I've seen devastated college locker rooms -- after losses in the Final Four, the national championship game -- ever

Offline Pendergast

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14041 on: September 21, 2011, 07:39:37 PM »
Sorry to interrupt this great architectural debate.....but how about a little history lesson from one of the greatest history professors of all timehttp://themercury.com/K-StateSports/article.aspx?articleId=3d2af06db8284de69292e4bd5d8d69a2

So that's how cornhole's hate for UT started.  Interesting.

Offline michigancat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14042 on: September 21, 2011, 07:41:44 PM »
Sorry to interrupt this great architectural debate.....but how about a little history lesson from one of the greatest history professors of all timehttp://themercury.com/K-StateSports/article.aspx?articleId=3d2af06db8284de69292e4bd5d8d69a2

oh dear lord. Only got this far:

Quote
"You know, this story has never been written before," he says.

and that sealed it. Can't wait. :bwpopcorn:
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 07:47:25 PM by michigancat »

Offline EMAWmeister

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14043 on: September 21, 2011, 07:46:57 PM »
eff this thread

Offline theKSU

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14044 on: September 21, 2011, 07:49:49 PM »
Great story from our Manbeck. 

Offline felix rex

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14045 on: September 21, 2011, 07:50:49 PM »
<--enjoyed the sightlines sidebar.
"How will I recruit to Manhattan? Well, distance. And the proud state of basketball. It start there, and then daily flights to Dallas, because I'm really good at going out. Like top five good. Ask my wife. She wants me to be happy."

Offline oodfan

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14046 on: September 21, 2011, 07:55:03 PM »
Sorry to interrupt this great architectural debate.....but how about a little history lesson from one of the greatest history professors of all timehttp://themercury.com/K-StateSports/article.aspx?articleId=3d2af06db8284de69292e4bd5d8d69a2

oh dear lord. Only got this far:

Quote
"You know, this story has never been written before," he says.

and that sealed it. Can't wait. :bwpopcorn:

I loved this:
Quote
I just said to myself in my mind, 'oh darn-it,

Offline I_have_purplewood

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14047 on: September 21, 2011, 08:18:34 PM »
he Big 12 is poised to replace commissioner Dan Beebe with former Big Eight commissioner Chuck Neinas, CBSSports.com has learned.

One highly placed source said the conference was moving quickly to replace Beebe who had been under fire from some conference members after recent instability within the league. Neinas, currently a well-known college consultant, is expected to be named interim commissioner.

The official word could come as soon as Thursday when the Big 12 presidents meet by conference call to discuss how to move forward. Based on the news of Wednesday, the embattled league apparently will continue with nine schools while seeking additional members.

The Tulsa World reported Wednesday that the Big 12 had "targeted" Neinas, one of the most respected college figures in the country. Neinas was the assistant executive director of the NCAA from 1961-1971 and Big Eight commissioner from 1971-1980. He currently runs Neinas Sports Services.

Oklahoma and Texas are seemingly in the Big 12 fold after flirting with the Pac-12 for what seems like forever. Essentially, the Big 12 has taken a trip around the world the last few weeks and ended up in the exact same place -- without Texas A&M.
Fifteen minutes later, when the Kansas locker room opened its doors to the media, the Jayhawks were still crying. Literally, bawling. All of them. I've never seen anything like it, and I've seen devastated college locker rooms -- after losses in the Final Four, the national championship game -- ever

Offline thebigcatbowski

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14048 on: September 21, 2011, 08:28:26 PM »
he Big 12 is poised to replace commissioner Dan Beebe with former Big Eight commissioner Chuck Neinas, CBSSports.com has learned.

One highly placed source said the conference was moving quickly to replace Beebe who had been under fire from some conference members after recent instability within the league. Neinas, currently a well-known college consultant, is expected to be named interim commissioner.

The official word could come as soon as Thursday when the Big 12 presidents meet by conference call to discuss how to move forward. Based on the news of Wednesday, the embattled league apparently will continue with nine schools while seeking additional members.

The Tulsa World reported Wednesday that the Big 12 had "targeted" Neinas, one of the most respected college figures in the country. Neinas was the assistant executive director of the NCAA from 1961-1971 and Big Eight commissioner from 1971-1980. He currently runs Neinas Sports Services.

Oklahoma and Texas are seemingly in the Big 12 fold after flirting with the Pac-12 for what seems like forever. Essentially, the Big 12 has taken a trip around the world the last few weeks and ended up in the exact same place -- without Texas A&M.

How old is that MFer?

Offline SkinnyBenny

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14049 on: September 21, 2011, 08:33:42 PM »
Want Lew.
"walking around mhk and crying in the rain because of love lost is the absolute purest and best thing in the world.  i hope i fall in love during the next few weeks and get my heart broken and it starts raining just to experience it one last time."   --Dlew12