Author Topic: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail  (Read 9518 times)

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Offline Kat Kid

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Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« on: April 18, 2015, 11:30:07 PM »
This is my step-by-step rebuttal to Currie's e-mail.  It got really long and it is kind of a hodge-podge, so excuse the formatting and the length.  Here goes...

Quote
Basketball Reshapes Roster Amidst National Transfer Epidemic

And we're off. . .
Epidemic:  "a sudden, widespread occurrence of a particular undesirable phenomenon."

Does Currie view Edwards and Bolden (as well as one more transfer signing to round out the decimated roster) as marks against Weber?     

Quote
This week Coach Weber announced two new spring signees, guards Dogbite and Deathbite, to go along with our fall signing class of Kansas Player of the Year Claws, The Flush and xWhomper, who all led their teams to successful seasons this past year.  Click here to read Coach Weber's comments in our press release.  A common attribute of these five players is the toughness and resiliency they have shown in their basketball pursuits to this point and their commitment to winning which is evidenced collectively by five state championships, multiple playoff runs and All-America recognition.

Fine.

Quote
Although this past season included a number of highlights, including five wins over Top 25 opponents, a 7-2 Big 12 record in Bramlage and average home attendance that ranked 25th in the country, there is no question that it was a frustrating one that certainly fell short of the expectations of the K-State family, including Coach Weber, me and our loyal fans.

The average home attendance should be not be considered a "highlight", it should be evidence that there is loyal support in spite of the results on the court.  The "fell short of expectations part" should then lead to a sentence thanking the fans for supporting the hell out of the team in spite of the train wreck of a season.

Quote
I know that it has been concerning for many of our fans to see the attrition from the program, including the dismissal of three players, and the decisions of two players to transfer and seek opportunities to continue their education elsewhere.

To say the least. . .

Quote
At the same time, I have heard from many K-State fans their appreciation of Coach Weber's determination that the commitment of student-athletes in our program reflect the advantages and opportunities that we offer here in Manhattan.

This is embarrassing

______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Let me refer you to the statements of the players that have left Kansas State so far:


Marcus Foster:
https://twitter.com/Swaggy2_/status/581081887638089728

Quote
"(Fans) really don't understand who me and Coach Weber are," Foster said at his locker stall. "Because me and him can be mad at each other, but at the end of the day, we still love each other."
You still love him?
"Yeah, I still love Coach. He's always going to be my favorite coach, because he gave me a chance when nobody else wanted to."

Malek Harris:
https://twitter.com/24_MoneyTeam_10/status/589102284279123968

K-State's comments:
Quote
"Marcus and Tre have been unable to live up to the standards that we expect of our players," Weber said in a statement released by the school. "It is a privilege to represent Kansas State University and there are consequences when players don't live up to those expectations. Hopefully, they will learn from this experience and make the necessary progress to continue their basketball careers elsewhere."

Quote
“We have high standards for the players in our program,” said Weber. “Unfortunately, Malek could not live up to those expectations. We wish him the best as he continues his basketball career.”

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Kansas State is under no obligation to release information about the nature of why players are leaving.  But they did.  When pressed for details, Currie will immediately respond that they are bound by FERPA to not release student records, even though he already got the message out via public and leaks.  So this is a conscious effort to spell out that Marcus, Tre, and Malek were dismissed with cause.  That in and of itself is fine as far as it goes, K-State wants to be able to defend their coach.  However, there is a bit more history with John Currie and transfers. 

************************************************************************************************************

In fact, just one year ago we had the Leti Romero saga.  That incredibly embarrassing episode showed that most times counting on student-athletes to maintain their quiet decorum while the University simultaneously wages a whisper campaign to tarnish the student-athlete and attempts to hide behind FERPA will be successful. 

Except Leti lawyered up. 

The internal machinations of the Athletic Department were exposed repeatedly over those weeks.  What was revealed?  Mostly lots of evidence of incompetence:

Example 1:  John Currie did not meet with Leti Romero before denying her transfer request.


Example 2:  No one at the University explained why Leti Romero was denied her transfer request.


Example 3:  Leti claims she was offered a release, but only after playing one more year:
Quote
K-State, Romero said, offered her a deal of sorts.

“They said we wanted to do the same thing they did with Angel (Rodriguez) for the men’s team, and they said that they weren’t going to give me the release this year,” Romero told The Topeka Capital-Journal on Tuesday afternoon. “They wanted me to try one year, and in one year if I didn’t like it, they would give me a release.

“I really saw this as blackmail.”


Example 4:  Leti was granted a due process appeal, however according to Jay Bilas:
Quote
She wanted to audio tape the appeal, they told her, ‘You don't have to do that, we're going to tape it, we'll tape and you can have a copy of it.' And, then they didn't tape it. So there's no audio record of that appeal. I don't know whether they took notes or not, they never gave her a reason why they were denying the transfer.


Example 5:  The University then realized that there was no mechanism to overturn the appeal due to their own stupid policy so they attempted to offer a conditional release to schools not on the initial list of 94 schools submitted by Leti

Quote
“There is no university procedure to reexamine one of those decisions,” read the statement, which was written by K-State vice president for communications and marketing Jeffery Morris. “Thus, the university process concludes with the Appeals Committee's decision. Also, the final and binding nature of these decisions does not allow for them to be overturned by university administrators.”


Example 6:
Quote
Romero has had contact with one school, Middle Tennessee State, which also involved some controversy. Last Friday K-State approved Romero to have contact with Middle Tennessee State then reversed field when it was discovered that MTSU was on her original list of 94 transfer possibilities. The NCAA ruled that once contact is approved, it can’t be rescinded.
 


Example 7: K-State letter from Currie to Bosco asking him to reverse himself please because a mistake was made, followed by the eventual "policy change" that allowed for Leti to transfer to any school not in the Big 12

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Besides the incompetence, the administration chose to take extraordinary lengths to both tarnish the image of a student-athlete while supporting the decision making of the Athletic Department.  In both public and "sources close" statements.  In addition, nearly all of the revelations about the process showed the repeated efforts of the Athletic Department, under John Currie's leadership, to control every aspect of the transfer process.  For example:

Days after Leti's appeal is denied and everyone is criticizing John Currie and K-State, Currie issues a statement on twitter:
Quote
“National transfer issues are complex/need reform,” Currie said. “Student privacy prevents discussion of individual student issues. … Generally speaking, on RARE occasions that we have denied a student-athlete transfer release, it has been because of concerns about outside tampering, undue influence by third parties or procedures not being followed in an honest and forthright manner.”


Currie then, incredibly, refused to comment further citing FERPA.  Coincidentally, some sources commented.

Quote
That same day, Tim Fitzgerald of the Powercat Illustrated website wrote that K-State was concerned about "the suspicion that one of the former coaches is actually dangling Romero as an enticement to get a new job." Fitzgerald cited an anonymous source close to the K-State program, and referred to Romero as a "pawn."

This is not new
Quote
A source close to Kansas State indicated the school was also unhappy with how Romero went about pursing the transfer, including the fact that she spoke with the media in between the original denial of the release and her appeal.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

All of this evidence was collected from the one case that we have a student-athlete publicly fighting back on.  It includes an accusation that at least one other release from John Currie's tenure included a "blackmail" deal.  It is important to remember the Leti Romero fiasco, even if not every accusation against Kansas State is substantiated, because of the way the Athletic Department attempts to operate its messaging with regards to student-athletes leaving the program.  There is lots of evidence that Kansas State is not above using leaks, threats, and public statements specifically designed to burnish the Athletic Department, while tarnishing those attempting to leave.


Still more to go!

***********************************************************************************************************
Quote
It is very encouraging to see the hard work and positive attitude of our returning players every day in the Basketball Training Facility as well as the excitement of our coaching staff as they continue to work on a few more potential additions to our roster.

Of note, we aren't given a list of returning players.

Quote
Sadly, our recent attrition is not unique in college basketball.
 

Hmm....By what measure?  Losing 6 players in the course of a calendar year seems the definition of unique- "being the only one of its kind; unlike anything else."

https://twitter.com/ksu_FAN/status/589096312596901890


_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Quote from:  John Currie
According to ESPN.com’s Jeff Goodman (@GoodmanESPN who has worked hard to keep an updated list!) thus far in 2015, 475 (and counting) Division I men's basketball players are seeking a new school compared to 687 last year, 507 in 2013 and 445 in 2012. That’s 2,114 in four years, an average of 6.02 outbound transfers for each of the 351 Division I schools! 

So 6 in one year = 6 in four years?

Interesting...Hang with me here real quick.

"I made $200,000 if you add up my AGI over the past four years, but really that is just like making $200,000 this year if you think about it!"

"The US per capita GDP is $53,000 and I made $35,000 but that is really close if look at it really quick!"

"400,000 and also 1,000,000 but if you divide by 40 you get 10,000 and 25,000!  Those are numbers and some math!"

The three card monty is probably good enough for some people, but none of the numbers provide any context for the current situation at this specific school which has had an unprecedented amount of turnover for this program and dwarfs any recent, relevant examples.  It is such an obvious and clumsy red herring, specifically designed to distract from the issues at hand that it is incredible that it is being seriously presented!  <---also exclamation marks

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Quote
You can click below for a few other recent national stories on the topic:

Star Player Among Eight Who Have Left Another Program
NCAA Sweet 16 “Hero” Among Latest Transfers
Coach Concerned About Transfer Epidemic

While many different factors can play into student-athlete departures, including the “instant gratification” expectations of playing time and notoriety at a new school, a further dive into the numbers shows that of the 65 “Power 5” conference schools, 63 have had at least one men’s basketball transfer in the past three seasons, including all 10 members of the Big 12 and all schools in the Pac-12 and SEC. Power 5 schools with at least five transfers the past three seasons includes the likes of Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Missouri, Ole Miss, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas A&M, Vanderbilt, Indiana, Illinois, Maryland, Minnesota, Nebraska, Purdue, Rutgers, Arizona State, Oregon, UCLA, USC, Utah, Washington State, Clemson, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, Iowa State, Texas Tech, Texas and West Virginia, in addition to K-State.

Again, the listing of every program with "at least 5 transfers the past three seasons" is an attempt to confuse the reader and overwhelm the reader with the long list of schools.  This is really ham handed and embarrassing.  Also of note is the striking similarity between:

Quote from:  John Currie
While many different factors can play into student-athlete departures, including the “instant gratification” expectations of playing time and notoriety at a new school...

Quote from:  Dick Vitale
In the bigger transfer picture, some kids go looking for instant gratification and leave for a bigger role. Some are junior college stars looking for that high-major scholarship. And some are recent graduates who have one year of eligibility left and are looking for one last shot at the glory with a higher-profile program.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Again, the student athlete is portrayed as self-interested and greedy when in reality this is part of a concentrated attempt to craft a narrative in defense of highly paid professionals at the expense of amateur student-athletes.  If a student-athlete wants to pursue more playing time, framing it as "instant gratification" is wholly unnecessary unless the purpose is to smear transfers for the obvious purpose of buttressing Weber's record. 

Despite recognizing that there are a "variety of reasons" it highlights two reasons that reflect negatively on a student-athlete.  It does nothing to reference a completely understandable reason often cited by student athletes at Kansas State in recent years--home sickness or wanting to move closer to home/family:

Under Weber:
Jevon Thomas
Quote
“As for Jevon, he has worked diligently to succeed in our program both athletically and academically,” Weber said. “He has made tremendous strides during his time at K-State but he’s come to the decision he wants to be closer to home. We wish him the best as he moves forward in his college career.”

Angel Rodriguez
Quote
“After multiple conversations, Angel feels an obligation to be closer to his family,” Kansas State head coach oscar Weber said in a statement released by the school. “His mother is raising his two younger brothers all by herself in San Juan and he just wants to be able to see them more often.”

Under Martin:
Quote
Which is why when Sutton surprised K-State with his decision to leave the school and transfer nearer to his hometown of Durham, N.C. -- where he could spend more time with his two young daughters -- many assumed Sutton would land at one of the ACC's bigger brands. Those of you with cheesy dads knows what happens when you assume.

Quote
The recently formed Transfer Issues Subcommittee of the new NCAA "Council" is studying this issue closely.  Dr. Tim Day, Faculty Athletic Representative at Iowa State (and a K-State grad), is the Big 12's member on this committee.

We believe K-State is a special place that affords incredible opportunities for student-athletes in one of the nation's great conferences, as our continued academic and athletic successes demonstrate.  Across the department we have tremendously talented, experienced and successful coaches who have the best in mind for our student-athletes.  We are fortunate at K-State to have such a quality and loyal group of coaches, and I am already looking forward to next season!

Conclusion:
The implication is that student-athletes do not know what is best for themselves.  Which a mountain of evidence says is how Kansas State Athletics operates with regards to its student-athletes and their self-determination.


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« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 07:35:32 AM by Kat Kid »

Offline Muldoon

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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2015, 06:47:51 AM »
I was pissed when I read Currie's letter the first time. Reading this makes me rough ridin' furious. Good work.

Offline Ich.Gewinne

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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2015, 08:00:35 AM »
Great post.
Back for more bad takes.

Offline A-Lishious

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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2015, 08:22:27 AM »
I forgot how ruthless the Leti saga was. Surprising that Currie can rally the fan base when so much shady, frankly "mean" activity is going on. Incredible post OP.

Offline Winters

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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2015, 11:41:03 AM »
Incredible read
Best #heel and/or #babyface on this blogsite



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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2015, 11:44:57 AM »
Somebody giant should tattoo that whole thing on their forehead.

Offline joda

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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2015, 12:23:57 PM »
Somebody giant should tattoo that whole thing on their forehead.

Who has the Barry Bonds forehead here?

Offline Benja

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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2015, 12:49:14 PM »
Woah

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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2015, 01:21:23 PM »
great job KK

Offline CyberToothCat

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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2015, 06:09:26 PM »
Dear Sir,

I was very disappointed to read the message you sent out regarding "the transfer epidemic" that has seemingly struck K-State's program.

I thought it was strange that you attempted to equate our six departures this season with the average of six over four years, or 1.5 per year, at other schools. The number of transfers nationwide IS concerning, but that is not the only issue with our program this season. In addition to the two scholarship players that graduated, we lost a transfer at the start of the season, two more at the end of the season and three dismissals. That is excessive by any standard. It may not be unique, but there are very few programs nationwide that have ever had losses like this in any one year. Trying to portray this as normal or typical was a strange decision on your part.

Look, I understand wanting to show support for the coach. There is no easy way to sugarcoat how quickly and thoroughly oscar Weber is dismantling our program. Rather than try to mislead and misdirect, it would have been better to say something generic or nothing at all.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx
basketball season ticket holder from 2002-03 thru 2014-15

Offline Pete

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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2015, 06:32:07 PM »
Great job, KK.

Offline CNS

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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2015, 06:53:20 PM »
Dear Sir,

I was very disappointed to read the message you sent out regarding "the transfer epidemic" that has seemingly struck K-State's program.

I thought it was strange that you attempted to equate our six departures this season with the average of six over four years, or 1.5 per year, at other schools. The number of transfers nationwide IS concerning, but that is not the only issue with our program this season. In addition to the two scholarship players that graduated, we lost a transfer at the start of the season, two more at the end of the season and three dismissals. That is excessive by any standard. It may not be unique, but there are very few programs nationwide that have ever had losses like this in any one year. Trying to portray this as normal or typical was a strange decision on your part.

Look, I understand wanting to show support for the coach. There is no easy way to sugarcoat how quickly and thoroughly oscar Weber is dismantling our program. Rather than try to mislead and misdirect, it would have been better to say something generic or nothing at all.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx
basketball season ticket holder from 2002-03 thru 2014-15
How mean was Daddy Animal in his response?

Offline uncle clean jeans

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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2015, 06:57:42 PM »
Dear Sir,

I was very disappointed to read the message you sent out regarding "the transfer epidemic" that has seemingly struck K-State's program.

I thought it was strange that you attempted to equate our six departures this season with the average of six over four years, or 1.5 per year, at other schools. The number of transfers nationwide IS concerning, but that is not the only issue with our program this season. In addition to the two scholarship players that graduated, we lost a transfer at the start of the season, two more at the end of the season and three dismissals. That is excessive by any standard. It may not be unique, but there are very few programs nationwide that have ever had losses like this in any one year. Trying to portray this as normal or typical was a strange decision on your part.

Look, I understand wanting to show support for the coach. There is no easy way to sugarcoat how quickly and thoroughly oscar Weber is dismantling our program. Rather than try to mislead and misdirect, it would have been better to say something generic or nothing at all.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx
basketball season ticket holder from 2002-03 thru 2014-15
How mean was Daddy Animal in his response?
i believe it's the other way around. despite holding the authority to get rid of currie at his leisure, the animal is completely subservient to him, or i would suspect so

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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2015, 07:00:17 PM »
that was great KK. Hopefully you actually emailed that to currie, if not you should.

Offline AndrewVonLintel

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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2015, 07:27:34 PM »
 :thumbs:


Great Post.

I am surprised that anyone is surprised by this email. Currie is something else.
Hire Brad Underwood Now!!!!!!

Offline slobber

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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2015, 07:57:53 PM »
Ehhh, fringe element.



Jk, nice job KK and CyberTooth.


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Offline Cire

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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2015, 09:08:13 PM »
Currie got 50 go oscar emails for every one of kk's

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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2015, 09:09:55 PM »
Currie got 50 go oscar emails for every one of kk's

 :goodbyecruelworld:

Offline 0.42

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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2015, 10:24:38 PM »
Currie got 50 go oscar emails for every one of kk's

 :goodbyecruelworld:

It wouldn't matter if the ratio was 500 KK emails to 1 go oscar. The AD is fully entrenched with Schulz's emphatic support. When certain people get in power and stay in power, it doesn't matter if an entire campus is against them. See: UAB and their deeply unpopular president.

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2015, 11:44:54 PM »
This is an EPIDEMIC people!!




Offline ArchE_Cat

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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2015, 07:29:20 AM »
National epidemic? Then K-State should be a model intercollegiate athletic program on this issue and have basketball program lead by a coach who models the concept of stability and commitment. Not, a coach who cannot retain the players her has recruited.

Offline Tobias

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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2015, 07:33:19 AM »
NBAF can't get completed soon enough

Offline slobber

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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2015, 07:58:08 AM »

NBAF can't get completed soon enough
construction has stopped. Cannot build a level 5 biohazard site so close to such a large fire.


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Offline PIPE

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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2015, 09:45:16 AM »

NBAF can't get completed soon enough
construction has stopped. Cannot build a level 5 biohazard site so close to such a large fire.


Gonna win 'em all!

 :lol:
Awaiting the inevitable KITN

Offline Katpappy

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Re: Rebuttal to Currie's E-Mail
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2015, 09:52:16 AM »

NBAF can't get completed soon enough
construction has stopped. Cannot build a level 5 biohazard site so close to such a large fire.


Gonna win 'em all!
Sounds like the BID team is holding up progress in the happy town of Manhappiness. :D
Hot time in Kat town tonight.