Author Topic: Another school shooting  (Read 491527 times)

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Offline Phil Titola

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4675 on: February 22, 2018, 11:29:32 AM »
The NRA spreads it’s money to the Democrats as much as Republicans so everyone has blood on their hands really.
Would be so great to get rid of lobbying money....

Not really. If anything, the NRA is a shining example of why lobbying is important. A grassroots organization with millions of members who are willing to donate to the cause should have a lot of influence over any democratic government, whether you agree with their cause or not. Hopefully their current positions cause them to lose membership until they become more reasonable.
It's gone way too far. Nice idea in your description but it's obviously become perverted.

Offline Dr Rick Daris

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4676 on: February 22, 2018, 11:42:25 AM »
and while we're at it on the age thing, it is far more absurd that we let people who are in their last years of life and might have dementia and/or not even be able to drive a car continue to vote than it is to allow 16 year olds to vote. but then again the laws are made by mostly people in their 40's-60's who don't want to give up a strangle hold on their power, so...

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4677 on: February 22, 2018, 11:44:45 AM »
I paid taxes when I was 16.

Online wetwillie

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4678 on: February 22, 2018, 11:48:40 AM »
Even if you give 16 year olds the ability to vote barely any of them would actually vote.
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Offline Phil Titola

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4679 on: February 22, 2018, 11:49:07 AM »
No problem having 16 yo vote.

Offline ChiComCat

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4680 on: February 22, 2018, 11:50:15 AM »
Even if you give 16 year olds the ability to vote barely any of them would actually vote.

I think schools would make it a priority to get them to the polls.  Could be beneficial to encouraging their future involvement in government.

Offline sys

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4681 on: February 22, 2018, 11:50:38 AM »
it drives me crazy when people dismiss/disparage the nra's influence as being about money. 

it's very convenient and intellectually dishonest for people opposed to this position to dismiss the nra as a lobbyist organization buying influence with money, because it intimates that the prevailing gun policy has somehow been achieved dishonestly or against the electorate's wishes.  however, that is not accurate.  the nra enjoys influence because a lot of americans believe very strongly that their right to possess firearms should not be infringed in any way and vote accordingly.  they have influence because our democracy functions as designed.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline ChiComCat

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4682 on: February 22, 2018, 11:51:00 AM »
Also, Deez Nutz would get a lot more votes.

Offline Phil Titola

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4683 on: February 22, 2018, 11:58:37 AM »
it drives me crazy when people dismiss/disparage the nra's influence as being about money. 

it's very convenient and intellectually dishonest for people opposed to this position to dismiss the nra as a lobbyist organization buying influence with money, because it intimates that the prevailing gun policy has somehow been achieved dishonestly or against the electorate's wishes.  however, that is not accurate.  the nra enjoys influence because a lot of americans believe very strongly that their right to possess firearms should not be infringed in any way and vote accordingly.  they have influence because our democracy functions as designed.
I have no doubt in what you are saying...so let's get rid of the money.

Online wetwillie

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4684 on: February 22, 2018, 12:08:16 PM »
I’m fine with individuals contributing money to the NRA and collectively using their large numbers to use as leverage in getting legislation they are in favor of.  The problem lies in that a very large portion of their budget is funded by gun manufacturers.   I think technically any money they spend on lobbying has to come from private donations but it’s a very blurred line to me.
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4685 on: February 22, 2018, 12:09:31 PM »
What this country needs is national referendums (propositions) to be voted on by the public. It must first be argued in front of the supreme court to be deemed constitutional, so if it passes, it must become law without any appeals. Of course, there would need to be some sort of weeding our process so we aren't constantly voting on stupid crap.

The first would be term limits for congress and senate.

Second will be eliminating lobbyists.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4686 on: February 22, 2018, 12:16:19 PM »
What this country needs is national referendums (propositions) to be voted on by the public. It must first be argued in front of the supreme court to be deemed constitutional, so if it passes, it must become law without any appeals. Of course, there would need to be some sort of weeding our process so we aren't constantly voting on stupid crap.

The first would be term limits for congress and senate.

Second will be eliminating lobbyists.

I like it.  I might even love it

Online wetwillie

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4687 on: February 22, 2018, 12:24:05 PM »
I’m fine with individuals contributing money to the NRA and collectively using their large numbers to use as leverage in getting legislation they are in favor of.  The problem lies in that a very large portion of their budget is funded by gun manufacturers.   I think technically any money they spend on lobbying has to come from private donations but it’s a very blurred line to me.
How is the NRA different in this aspect from any other lobbying party?  Most lobbyists are heavily subsidized by those with skin in the game.
I'm all for removing lobbyist as long as it's across the board. 

I think most people share this sentiment. 
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4688 on: February 22, 2018, 12:33:02 PM »
I was hoping for a more mature and reasoned discussion last night. CNN seemed content to just let the stacked audience boo, scream, and heckle.

Also allowing 16yos to vote. :facepalm: Do you even remember what a dumbass you were at 16? I'm not saying people get smarter as they get older - they don't. But most folks do get wiser and more mature. I would actually favor bumping the age of eligibility back to 25 or 26 unless you serve in the military. Get a rough ridin' job first and be self-sufficient before you start voting, you smartass, sheltered little assholes.

What does it say about your politics that you think adding 16yos to the voter roles will help advance your causes?

Totally agree.  16 year-olds simply aren't equipped to make complex decisions like always voting for republicans over democrats regardless of how many children they've sexually assaulted.

Speaking of, has Doug Jones ruined our country yet?

I'd vote for [Roy Moore]. But only because I'm a pragmatist and understand that the political implications of giving this seat to a liberal far outweigh the harm of allowing an alleged scumbag to serve for a couple of years until the next primary.

Offline DQ12

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4689 on: February 22, 2018, 12:33:22 PM »
The problem lies in that a very large portion of their budget is funded by gun manufacturers.   
Link?

Here's an interesting article on the subject: http://money.cnn.com/news/cnnmoney-investigates/nra-funding-donors/index.html


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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4690 on: February 22, 2018, 12:34:13 PM »
Another thread another display of KSUW being a terrible person

Offline Institutional Control

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4691 on: February 22, 2018, 12:41:15 PM »
The NRA spreads it’s money to the Democrats as much as Republicans so everyone has blood on their hands really.
Would be so great to get rid of lobbying money....

Not really. If anything, the NRA is a shining example of why lobbying is important. A grassroots organization with millions of members who are willing to donate to the cause should have a lot of influence over any democratic government, whether you agree with their cause or not. Hopefully their current positions cause them to lose membership until they become more reasonable.

They are hardly a grassroots organization anymore. They are funded by the gun manufacturers and do the bulk of their lobbying.

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-industry-funds-nra-2013-1

Online wetwillie

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4692 on: February 22, 2018, 12:42:25 PM »
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4693 on: February 22, 2018, 12:45:44 PM »
I’m fine with individuals contributing money to the NRA and collectively using their large numbers to use as leverage in getting legislation they are in favor of.  The problem lies in that a very large portion of their budget is funded by gun manufacturers.   I think technically any money they spend on lobbying has to come from private donations but it’s a very blurred line to me.
How is the NRA different in this aspect from any other lobbying party?  Most lobbyists are heavily subsidized by those with skin in the game.
I'm all for removing lobbyist as long as it's across the board. 

I think most people share this sentiment.

If there is one thing I'd like to see change in this country during my lifetime it is the complete overhaul of the campaign finance system.  Something like this:

1. Have some bare minimum requirement to be a candidate that anyone could meet but would be a significant barrier to entry (like 10,000 physical signatures within their district or a bunch of financial disclosures and background check authorizations)

2. The government allots each candidate equal opportunity to share their message like on a government website, circular, or CSPAN type tv network

3. Multiple rounds of voting to narrow down the pool

4. Candidates are not allowed to spend money to promote themselves and they cannot direct others to (no, "I approved this message").  Alternatively, you could do a salaray-cap type system.

#4 is definitely the trickiest. Ideally you would stop any kind of private interest spending, but I think that definitely runs into free speech issues which is bad.  Obviously lots of candidates would try to cheat to quietly cut deals with groups like the NRA to promote them in their magazines/news letters, but I still think we can make vast improvements to the current system which is incredibly money-centered.

Don't get me wrong. I am all for private interest groups speaking up, but it is incredibly depressing that right now it seems guaranteed that you cannot win a major election without having millions of dollars to spend (whether your money or someone else's).

Offline EMAWican

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4694 on: February 22, 2018, 12:48:00 PM »
The NRA spreads it’s money to the Democrats as much as Republicans so everyone has blood on their hands really.
Would be so great to get rid of lobbying money....

Not really. If anything, the NRA is a shining example of why lobbying is important. A grassroots organization with millions of members who are willing to donate to the cause should have a lot of influence over any democratic government, whether you agree with their cause or not. Hopefully their current positions cause them to lose membership until they become more reasonable.

They are hardly a grassroots organization anymore. They are funded by the gun manufacturers and do the bulk of their lobbying.

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-industry-funds-nra-2013-1

There's usually a coupon for one free year of NRA membership or similar inside the box/case with the other manufacturer paperwork when you purchase a new gun.

Offline Gooch

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4695 on: February 22, 2018, 01:43:38 PM »
The NRA spreads it’s money to the Democrats as much as Republicans so everyone has blood on their hands really.
Would be so great to get rid of lobbying money....

Not really. If anything, the NRA is a shining example of why lobbying is important. A grassroots organization with millions of members who are willing to donate to the cause should have a lot of influence over any democratic government, whether you agree with their cause or not. Hopefully their current positions cause them to lose membership until they become more reasonable.

They are hardly a grassroots organization anymore. They are funded by the gun manufacturers and do the bulk of their lobbying.

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-industry-funds-nra-2013-1

There's usually a coupon for one free year of NRA membership or similar inside the box/case with the other manufacturer paperwork when you purchase a new gun.

Nope. Not in Kansas anyways.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4696 on: February 22, 2018, 01:47:25 PM »
Imagine the disappointment to buy your machine gun and you don't get your year of The American Rifleman

Offline EMAWican

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4697 on: February 22, 2018, 01:54:33 PM »
The NRA spreads it’s money to the Democrats as much as Republicans so everyone has blood on their hands really.
Would be so great to get rid of lobbying money....

Not really. If anything, the NRA is a shining example of why lobbying is important. A grassroots organization with millions of members who are willing to donate to the cause should have a lot of influence over any democratic government, whether you agree with their cause or not. Hopefully their current positions cause them to lose membership until they become more reasonable.

They are hardly a grassroots organization anymore. They are funded by the gun manufacturers and do the bulk of their lobbying.

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-industry-funds-nra-2013-1

There's usually a coupon for one free year of NRA membership or similar inside the box/case with the other manufacturer paperwork when you purchase a new gun.

Nope. Not in Kansas anyways.

Can confirm via my last three handgun purchases from two different manufacturers. Long guns probably not tho.

Offline sys

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Offline catastrophe

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #4699 on: February 22, 2018, 04:42:06 PM »
Pretty old fashioned to run on a fear platform IYAM.

It's pretty gross how popular it is now for politicians to run on hatred.

Almost makes you miss the days when politicians just ran on fear.