Bravo California!

[AzCat]

Great news folks!  California, in a move that should be celebrated by those on the left and right in the other 49 states, is set to implement their own little cap & trade mechanism.  No word on how this lefty dream will impact the real California that lefties have built.

As a once and future Californian, I fervently support this move because: 1) if it weren't for all of those poor people living in hovels California would be a pretty great place; 2) this will make it so expensive for most of them that they'll be forced to flee the state; and 3) I'm not there to pay for it.  That, folks, is a big, big, big, big, big, big, big win / win / win for AzCat!

      <---- AzCat on the road back to CA (once they've taxed themselves back to prosperity)

[fatty fat fat]

california owns you.

[AzCat]

Love California fatty, *LOVE* it.  It's a beautiful wonderful place that should be preserved as-is.  As a matter of fact we should build a big wall all the way around it to ensure that all of that goodness is kept there so that those who voted for it can fully enjoy the fruits of their decisions. 

IBD checks in with a little reality for Californians on their cap-n-tax legislation.  Particularly enjoyed this bit:

[The] purpose [of the Western Climate Initiative] was to decrease the cost of reducing emissions by letting each region play to its strengths: the Northwest has abundant hydropower while California has strong solar energy potential, so it makes sense to exchange the two.

Or so the theory goes.

In practice, British Columbia, through its government-owned utility BC Power, has been scamming California consumers. BC Power, hit with a fine for its role in California's Enron-era electricity scandal, has been selling "green" hydropower to California for years.  Then, in an act of electron-laundering, has backfilled its electricity deficit with coal-fired power from Washington state and Alberta. This lets Californians feel good about their electricity while netting Canadians a healthy profit.

Beautiful isn't it?  The Hollywood lefties and their agitators in Sacramento continue the circle-jerk while all Californians unknowingly subsidize the lifestyles of Canadians allegedly to prevent global warming while in practice having no impact at all.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Love California fatty, *LOVE* it.  It's a beautiful wonderful place that should be preserved as-is.  As a matter of fact we should build a big wall all the way around it to ensure that all of that goodness is kept there so that those who voted for it can fully enjoy the fruits of their decisions. 

IBD checks in with a little reality for Californians on their cap-n-tax legislation.  Particularly enjoyed this bit:

[The] purpose [of the Western Climate Initiative] was to decrease the cost of reducing emissions by letting each region play to its strengths: the Northwest has abundant hydropower while California has strong solar energy potential, so it makes sense to exchange the two.

Or so the theory goes.

In practice, British Columbia, through its government-owned utility BC Power, has been scamming California consumers. BC Power, hit with a fine for its role in California's Enron-era electricity scandal, has been selling "green" hydropower to California for years.  Then, in an act of electron-laundering, has backfilled its electricity deficit with coal-fired power from Washington state and Alberta. This lets Californians feel good about their electricity while netting Canadians a healthy profit.

Beautiful isn't it?  The Hollywood lefties and their agitators in Sacramento continue the circle-jerk while all Californians unknowingly subsidize the lifestyles of Canadians allegedly to prevent global warming while in practice having no impact at all.

That would still produce a net savings on carbon emissions, assuming if California was purchasing coal power, British Columbia would also continue to purchase coal power.

Regardless, it is beyond Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) to care about coal emissions in an area so far away.

[AzCat]

That would still produce a net savings on carbon emissions, assuming if California was purchasing coal power, British Columbia would also continue to purchase coal power.

Heh, no.  In the best case it's a push WRT emissions but in reality it's very likely not that good. 

[pike]

So many companies/people are going to have to purchase carbon credits so they can continue polluting? Obviously this is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) because it doesn't help the environment. A teacher of mine said a month ago "I want to commit crimes, but since you don't want to ill have to buy my strikes(carbon credits) from you. So can I buy 2 strikes for robbery and one for murder? It will help society"

Which it obviously wouldn't.

In the words of Tool's Maynard James Keenan "Freaks here in the hopless crap hole we call LA, thee only way to fix it is to flush it all away. Any rough ridin' time, any rough ridin' day. See you down in'Arizona bay'"

What a crap hole state

[Rage Against the McKee]

That would still produce a net savings on carbon emissions, assuming if California was purchasing coal power, British Columbia would also continue to purchase coal power.

Heh, no.  In the best case it's a push WRT emissions but in reality it's very likely not that good. 

Who really cares about emissions in Washington and Alberta?

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

So many companies/people are going to have to purchase carbon credits so they can continue polluting? Obviously this is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) because it doesn't help the environment. A teacher of mine said a month ago "I want to commit crimes, but since you don't want to ill have to buy my strikes(carbon credits) from you. So can I buy 2 strikes for robbery and one for murder? It will help society"

Which it obviously wouldn't.

In the words of Tool's Maynard James Keenan "Freaks here in the hopless crap hole we call LA, thee only way to fix it is to flush it all away. Any rough ridin' time, any rough ridin' day. See you down in'Arizona bay'"

What a crap hole state

Those who scream the loudest about global warming also invest the most in carbon trading companies. They are literally inventing a way to make money by selling a product that does not even exist, all while crushing the US economy. See Maurice Strong and Al Gore.

[pike]

Couldn't agree more. We might as well buy carbon credits for breathing out CO2

[pike]

Can't wait for the 1st lib to post in this thread and try to defend this, which really can't be done since this is just a way of.raising taxes on people but that's not what its called

[Dirty Sanchez]

Can't wait for the 1st lib to post in this thread and try to defend this, which really can't be done since this is just a way of.raising taxes on people but that's not what its called

Of course its not called that.  Not in a world where a spending increase or a maintenance of current tax rates are both called "cuts"

[pike]

And to the libtards that support this, companies buyong carbon credits only helps the business they buy them from cause it doesn't help the environment at all, which is a duh. But the point is that consumers will pay more for products because this law is just because having to buy credits is an imput to whatever you're consuming. So Californians can expect to pay more for food, electricity, gas, etc. The list goes on...

[AzCat]

And to the libtards that support this, companies buyong carbon credits only helps the business they buy them from cause it doesn't help the environment at all, which is a duh. But the point is that consumers will pay more for products because this law is just because having to buy credits is an imput to whatever you're consuming. So Californians can expect to pay more for food, electricity, gas, etc. The list goes on...

In the case of the BC power scam it's even better than that: BC sells "green" hydroelectric power at premium rates to CA, BC buys "non-green" power at non-premium rates to replace "green" power sold to CA, coal fired generators in WA buy carbon credits in part from third world thugocracies in order to meet WA's "green" mandate.  Net effect: CA demand shifted to coal-fired plants in other states, third world dictators, residents of WA and Canadians profit at CA's expense, no net carbon reduction but a nice redistribution of wealth.  That's AGW / carbon regulation in a nutshell. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

And to the libtards that support this, companies buyong carbon credits only helps the business they buy them from cause it doesn't help the environment at all, which is a duh. But the point is that consumers will pay more for products because this law is just because having to buy credits is an imput to whatever you're consuming. So Californians can expect to pay more for food, electricity, gas, etc. The list goes on...

In the case of the BC power scam it's even better than that: BC sells "green" hydroelectric power at premium rates to CA, BC buys "non-green" power at non-premium rates to replace "green" power sold to CA, coal fired generators in WA buy carbon credits in part from third world thugocracies in order to meet WA's "green" mandate.  Net effect: CA demand shifted to coal-fired plants in other states, third world dictators, residents of WA and Canadians profit at CA's expense, no net carbon reduction but a nice redistribution of wealth.  That's AGW / carbon regulation in a nutshell. 

How is it a scam if California is getting clean power? WA and BC are free to supply their own power needs however they see fit. CA using hydro power, WA using coal, and BC using coal emits less pollution than CA, WA, and BC all using coal.

Why should we care if CA is stupid enough to care about emissions in Canada?

[pike]

Well o for one don't care about Cali, its just that do and will pay more for utilities, goods and services all because of a made up problem

[Rage Against the McKee]

Well o for one don't care about Cali, its just that do and will pay more for utilities, goods and services all because of a made up problem

I'm fine with that if they are. I really wish Kansas had some green power to sell them.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

And to the libtards that support this, companies buyong carbon credits only helps the business they buy them from cause it doesn't help the environment at all, which is a duh. But the point is that consumers will pay more for products because this law is just because having to buy credits is an imput to whatever you're consuming. So Californians can expect to pay more for food, electricity, gas, etc. The list goes on...

In the case of the BC power scam it's even better than that: BC sells "green" hydroelectric power at premium rates to CA, BC buys "non-green" power at non-premium rates to replace "green" power sold to CA, coal fired generators in WA buy carbon credits in part from third world thugocracies in order to meet WA's "green" mandate.  Net effect: CA demand shifted to coal-fired plants in other states, third world dictators, residents of WA and Canadians profit at CA's expense, no net carbon reduction but a nice redistribution of wealth.  That's AGW / carbon regulation in a nutshell. 

How is it a scam if California is getting clean power? WA and BC are free to supply their own power needs however they see fit. CA using hydro power, WA using coal, and BC using coal emits less pollution than CA, WA, and BC all using coal.

Why should we care if CA is stupid enough to care about emissions in Canada?

California and New York are liberal experiments conducted by unions. Texas is the exact opposite. The results are in, and Texas wins by a landslide.

[Rage Against the McKee]

And to the libtards that support this, companies buyong carbon credits only helps the business they buy them from cause it doesn't help the environment at all, which is a duh. But the point is that consumers will pay more for products because this law is just because having to buy credits is an imput to whatever you're consuming. So Californians can expect to pay more for food, electricity, gas, etc. The list goes on...

In the case of the BC power scam it's even better than that: BC sells "green" hydroelectric power at premium rates to CA, BC buys "non-green" power at non-premium rates to replace "green" power sold to CA, coal fired generators in WA buy carbon credits in part from third world thugocracies in order to meet WA's "green" mandate.  Net effect: CA demand shifted to coal-fired plants in other states, third world dictators, residents of WA and Canadians profit at CA's expense, no net carbon reduction but a nice redistribution of wealth.  That's AGW / carbon regulation in a nutshell. 

How is it a scam if California is getting clean power? WA and BC are free to supply their own power needs however they see fit. CA using hydro power, WA using coal, and BC using coal emits less pollution than CA, WA, and BC all using coal.

Why should we care if CA is stupid enough to care about emissions in Canada?

California and New York are liberal experiments conducted by unions. Texas is the exact opposite. The results are in, and Texas wins by a landslide.

Outside of Austin and maybe San Antonio, Texas is a crap hole.

[MeatSauce]

Texas is an absolutely horrible place to live if you like to apply reason and logic to everyday situations, oh  and if you don't buy into Texan Establishment bullshit.  It's probably as close to paradise as you can get if you're a christian conservative that's constantly looking for a pat on the back for being a moral upstanding citizen.

[AzCat]

How is it a scam if California is getting clean power? WA and BC are free to supply their own power needs however they see fit. CA using hydro power, WA using coal, and BC using coal emits less pollution than CA, WA, and BC all using coal.

Why should we care if CA is stupid enough to care about emissions in Canada?

Although you're obviously a parody poster because no one is really that stuipd:

California implemented their regulatory regime specifically to reduce carbon emissions based explicitly on the belief that doing so would reduce global warming.  If CA doesn't effect a net carbon reduction via their regulatory system then the premise upon which the system is based fails completely.  

The stated purpose of the regulation having failed utterly, what purpose then the regulatory system itself?  It's not having its intended effect of producing a net reduction in global carbon emissions.  It's not even raising revenue for California (though it is for BC, AB, WA & various and sundry third world thugocracies).  It's purely damaging Californians by making it more expensive to live or do business there while providing absolutely no benefit to the state.  That's fine.  Amazingly stupid but fine.  

[Rage Against the McKee]

How is it a scam if California is getting clean power? WA and BC are free to supply their own power needs however they see fit. CA using hydro power, WA using coal, and BC using coal emits less pollution than CA, WA, and BC all using coal.

Why should we care if CA is stupid enough to care about emissions in Canada?

Although you're obviously a parody poster because no one is really that stuipd:

California implemented their regulatory regime specifically to reduce carbon emissions based explicitly on the belief that doing so would reduce global warming.  If CA doesn't effect a net carbon reduction via their regulatory system then the premise upon which the system is based fails completely.  

The stated purpose of the regulation having failed utterly, what purpose then the regulatory system itself?  It's not having its intended effect of producing a net reduction in global carbon emissions.  It's not even raising revenue for California (though it is for BC, AB, WA & various and sundry third world thugocracies).  It's purely damaging Californians by making it more expensive to live or do business there while providing absolutely no benefit to the state.  That's fine.  Amazingly stupid but fine.  

Exactly. California is paying for and receiving clean power. There is no scam. They cannot legislate the other states in the U.S., let alone foreign countries.

Cap and trade is not intended to reduce global emissions, at least not at first. It is intended to place a cap on them, so that they cannot increase.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

And to the libtards that support this, companies buyong carbon credits only helps the business they buy them from cause it doesn't help the environment at all, which is a duh. But the point is that consumers will pay more for products because this law is just because having to buy credits is an imput to whatever you're consuming. So Californians can expect to pay more for food, electricity, gas, etc. The list goes on...

In the case of the BC power scam it's even better than that: BC sells "green" hydroelectric power at premium rates to CA, BC buys "non-green" power at non-premium rates to replace "green" power sold to CA, coal fired generators in WA buy carbon credits in part from third world thugocracies in order to meet WA's "green" mandate.  Net effect: CA demand shifted to coal-fired plants in other states, third world dictators, residents of WA and Canadians profit at CA's expense, no net carbon reduction but a nice redistribution of wealth.  That's AGW / carbon regulation in a nutshell. 

How is it a scam if California is getting clean power? WA and BC are free to supply their own power needs however they see fit. CA using hydro power, WA using coal, and BC using coal emits less pollution than CA, WA, and BC all using coal.

Why should we care if CA is stupid enough to care about emissions in Canada?

California and New York are liberal experiments conducted by unions. Texas is the exact opposite. The results are in, and Texas wins by a landslide.

Outside of Austin and maybe San Antonio, Texas is a crap hole.

I have lived in all three, and other than the weather and amount of state tax paid, there is no real difference. Certainly, California is the most desirable, but we are now about $40 billion in the hole, and lefties are still trying to spend there way out. Governor elect Moonbeam believes giving tax money to the poor and illegals will increase revenue for the state, as well as increasing "fees" on everything from vehicle registration to soda pop. We are fr@cked.

[ednksu]

And to the libtards that support this, companies buyong carbon credits only helps the business they buy them from cause it doesn't help the environment at all, which is a duh. But the point is that consumers will pay more for products because this law is just because having to buy credits is an imput to whatever you're consuming. So Californians can expect to pay more for food, electricity, gas, etc. The list goes on...

In the case of the BC power scam it's even better than that: BC sells "green" hydroelectric power at premium rates to CA, BC buys "non-green" power at non-premium rates to replace "green" power sold to CA, coal fired generators in WA buy carbon credits in part from third world thugocracies in order to meet WA's "green" mandate.  Net effect: CA demand shifted to coal-fired plants in other states, third world dictators, residents of WA and Canadians profit at CA's expense, no net carbon reduction but a nice redistribution of wealth.  That's AGW / carbon regulation in a nutshell. 

hit me with some academic documentation (nonwiki) please!

[ednksu]

And to the libtards that support this, companies buyong carbon credits only helps the business they buy them from cause it doesn't help the environment at all, which is a duh. But the point is that consumers will pay more for products because this law is just because having to buy credits is an imput to whatever you're consuming. So Californians can expect to pay more for food, electricity, gas, etc. The list goes on...

In the case of the BC power scam it's even better than that: BC sells "green" hydroelectric power at premium rates to CA, BC buys "non-green" power at non-premium rates to replace "green" power sold to CA, coal fired generators in WA buy carbon credits in part from third world thugocracies in order to meet WA's "green" mandate.  Net effect: CA demand shifted to coal-fired plants in other states, third world dictators, residents of WA and Canadians profit at CA's expense, no net carbon reduction but a nice redistribution of wealth.  That's AGW / carbon regulation in a nutshell. 

How is it a scam if California is getting clean power? WA and BC are free to supply their own power needs however they see fit. CA using hydro power, WA using coal, and BC using coal emits less pollution than CA, WA, and BC all using coal.

Why should we care if CA is stupid enough to care about emissions in Canada?

California and New York are liberal experiments conducted by unions. Texas is the exact opposite. The results are in, and Texas wins by a landslide.

shhhh......Texas has an 18 to 25 billion dollar budget shortfall..........don't tell anyone that Texas isn't doing it right either.

[pike]

JFC typos...i swear i was hammered every time i posted in this thread