Author Topic: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look  (Read 135781 times)

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Offline sys

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #425 on: March 20, 2018, 01:11:06 PM »
good article.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #426 on: April 05, 2018, 07:20:32 PM »
this is really good.  my apologies for posting part 3 (haven't read parts 1 and 2 yet), but it seems to stand autonomously.


http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/258528/microagressions
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #428 on: April 05, 2018, 08:01:25 PM »
Quote
If we try hard enough, we can remember the permissive world we all used to inhabit in the year 2016. We all knew men who tried to seduce a lot of women and often enough succeeded. We accepted them as part of the normal order of things in a world where no one we knew disapproved of premarital sex, homosexuality, or any private activity between consenting adults. We knew people of both sexes in the art world and the publishing world who mingled their sex lives and the thing they did to earn their keep. For them, the continuous pursuit of aesthetic bliss was co-extensive with the pursuit of sexual gratification. We allowed them this privilege.

We were living, it becomes increasingly clear, in a lawless interregnum between the widespread desublimation that began in the 1960s, and whatever lies ahead of us, when new rules couched in the language of safety and respect will regulate us.


goddamn, but this guy is a fantastic writer.  i'm ashamed i'd never heard of him before today.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline michigancat

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #429 on: April 05, 2018, 11:16:48 PM »
I didn't think the first (third) article was very good. He didn't have a clear point and he used a bunch of strawmen.

Quote
But the one approach that definitely will not work is declaring all white people to be irremediably tainted by racism at the level of the unconscious and all nonwhite people to be fragile to the point of inanition at the touch of slights that appear banal and trivial. 

Like is this an approach anyone seriously takes?

I also don't think Asians are immune to "microagressions" just because they have high incomes.

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #430 on: April 05, 2018, 11:19:01 PM »
Oh Christ, this moron thinks Bari Weiss was ridiculed primarily because microagression and bit because she's a dumbass? Jesus.

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #431 on: April 05, 2018, 11:32:46 PM »
Quote
If we try hard enough, we can remember the permissive world we all used to inhabit in the year 2016. We all knew men who tried to seduce a lot of women and often enough succeeded. We accepted them as part of the normal order of things in a world where no one we knew disapproved of premarital sex, homosexuality, or any private activity between consenting adults. We knew people of both sexes in the art world and the publishing world who mingled their sex lives and the thing they did to earn their keep. For them, the continuous pursuit of aesthetic bliss was co-extensive with the pursuit of sexual gratification. We allowed them this privilege.

We were living, it becomes increasingly clear, in a lawless interregnum between the widespread desublimation that began in the 1960s, and whatever lies ahead of us, when new rules couched in the language of safety and respect will regulate us.

You and I have different views on what constitutes good writing.  And I don't say that disparagingly.

goddamn, but this guy is a fantastic writer.  i'm ashamed i'd never heard of him before today.

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #432 on: April 05, 2018, 11:54:02 PM »
You and I have different views on what constitutes good writing.  And I don't say that disparagingly.

he's pedantic in passages, i admit.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #433 on: April 05, 2018, 11:54:31 PM »
Oh Christ, this moron thinks Bari Weiss was ridiculed primarily because microagression and bit because she's a dumbass? Jesus.

what do you think it was?
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #434 on: April 05, 2018, 11:57:44 PM »
I didn't think the first (third) article was very good. He didn't have a clear point and he used a bunch of strawmen.

Quote
But the one approach that definitely will not work is declaring all white people to be irremediably tainted by racism at the level of the unconscious and all nonwhite people to be fragile to the point of inanition at the touch of slights that appear banal and trivial.

Like is this an approach anyone seriously takes?

i think you missed the point.  i recommend you read this earlier piece of his which will perhaps clarify.


http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/252754/henry-louis-gates-ban-hate-speech
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #435 on: April 06, 2018, 01:45:05 PM »
Oh Christ, this moron thinks Bari Weiss was ridiculed primarily because microagression and bit because she's a dumbass? Jesus.

what do you think it was?
She's a dumbass who didn't get her facts straight and then doubled down on her incorrect fact. While also being pretty racist

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #436 on: April 06, 2018, 01:48:04 PM »
she's said she did know the skater wasn't an immigrant, but either way it is the exact thing that the opening vignette of the 3rd essay described as a microaggression.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #437 on: April 06, 2018, 02:02:12 PM »
she's said she did know the skater wasn't an immigrant, but either way it is the exact thing that the opening vignette of the 3rd essay described as a microaggression.
I don't think she knew that when she made the tweet. Even if she says she did. As a New York times editorial columnist, she deserves to be mocked on Twitter. If she really did know and still made the tweet, she probably deserves to be mocked even more.
 https://twitter.com/jiatolentino/status/963182999645966338

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #438 on: April 06, 2018, 02:10:14 PM »
i'm not arguing about whether she deserves to be mocked, i'm inquiring why you don't agree that the tweet was an example of microaggression.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #439 on: April 06, 2018, 02:19:49 PM »
As a well meaning white male I feel a little microaggressed in the way the author lays the bulk of microaggresions at my people's feet.
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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #440 on: April 06, 2018, 02:39:59 PM »
i'm not arguing about whether she deserves to be mocked, i'm inquiring why you don't agree that the tweet was an example of microaggression.
Ah. I guess I'd say she's factually inaccurate first, dumbass second, microaggressor third. The author painted her as a victim of microaggression outrage or whatever when that's third in the list of her problems here. Like, I don't think that tweet would have been noticed by anyone if it had been factually accurate or if she wasn't a NYT columnist.

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #441 on: April 06, 2018, 02:49:35 PM »
yeah, that seems like it's probably true.  i'd quibble maybe a bit that there is probably an interaction factor in the equation.  like if she'd have tweeted like "new yorkers, they get the job done" and someone had tweeted back, "she was born in california", i don't think very many people would have cared about the factual inaccuracy.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #442 on: April 06, 2018, 02:54:19 PM »
And I guess I don't know where exactly kinda dumb, lazy, and out of touch end and microaggressions begin. Like if she had made a reference to a "tiger mom" or something instead of Hamilton would that have been better or worse on the microaggression scale?

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #443 on: April 06, 2018, 03:01:45 PM »


yeah, that seems like it's probably true.  i'd quibble maybe a bit that there is probably an interaction factor in the equation.  like if she'd have tweeted like "new yorkers, they get the job done" and someone had tweeted back, "she was born in california", i don't think very many people would have cared about the factual inaccuracy.

Yes, good point. But would she have claimed she knew and it didn't matter at that mistake?

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #444 on: April 06, 2018, 03:15:12 PM »
it would have made it more work for people to make fun of.  "lololololololol" wouldn't have gotten the job done.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #445 on: April 06, 2018, 08:05:02 PM »
Anyone seriously using the word Microaggression deserves to be tarred and feathered
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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #446 on: April 06, 2018, 08:09:31 PM »
That would be a macroaggression.

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #447 on: April 07, 2018, 12:16:32 AM »
And I guess I don't know where exactly kinda dumb, lazy, and out of touch end and microaggressions begin. Like if she had made a reference to a "tiger mom" or something instead of Hamilton would that have been better or worse on the microaggression scale?

thinking about it a little more, if it wasn't inaccurate, it wouldn't be a microaggression.  if you're an immigrant and someone comes up to you and assumes you're an immigrant and asks you where you're from, you can't really be offended that they correctly perceived you to be an immigrant.

also, i'm not sure if the rationale i've heard (can't now recall if it was in the essay or i've seen it elsewhere) for how that is offensive is accurate.  the rationale being something like the microaggressor is assuming the asian person is not native born = not american = other.  i think it's more like the microaggressor sees an asian, wants to know their ethnicity and thinks it socially unacceptable to ask a stranger what ethnicity they are so they try to dig out the info on the sly asking where they're from.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #448 on: April 07, 2018, 12:57:20 AM »


And I guess I don't know where exactly kinda dumb, lazy, and out of touch end and microaggressions begin. Like if she had made a reference to a "tiger mom" or something instead of Hamilton would that have been better or worse on the microaggression scale?

thinking about it a little more, if it wasn't inaccurate, it wouldn't be a microaggression.  if you're an immigrant and someone comes up to you and assumes you're an immigrant and asks you where you're from, you can't really be offended that they correctly perceived you to be an immigrant.

also, i'm not sure if the rationale i've heard (can't now recall if it was in the essay or i've seen it elsewhere) for how that is offensive is accurate.  the rationale being something like the microaggressor is assuming the asian person is not native born = not american = other.  i think it's more like the microaggressor sees an asian, wants to know their ethnicity and thinks it socially unacceptable to ask a stranger what ethnicity they are so they try to dig out the info on the sly asking where they're from.

Yeah, the "where are you really from?" question is what I would clearly consider a "microaggression" category people freak out about. It can be demeaning but it can also come from genuine curiosity.

And the more I think about it, I don't really think the error/tweet/explanation falls into the "microaggression" realm because it was just too dumb to be something a normal person would say in normal conversation. Which I think is a feature of microaggressions, like they're common phrases or questions that people didn't realize could be considered offensive? I don't know, I haven't bothered to learn much about them.

Regardless, Weiss was pretty shrewd to make this about her being a victim of PC culture or whatever.

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Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look
« Reply #449 on: April 09, 2018, 01:48:42 PM »
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."