Tear it down!!! It huuuuurts my wittle feelings.

[sonofdaxjones]

At least dax is not going "we need to tear down the washington monument then!" route.

But there are many in the ProgLib ranks would line up to help make that happen.

Sounds like the southern racist dirtbag ranks want it pretty bad

Maybe they do, I don't know.  But there's also many on the ProgLib side who are wholly triggered by the founding fathers and want to (or have) rewritten the history books and seek to move beyond that. 

We tore Washington down and put up a mix used development with a Starbucks, PF Changs, BRGR and a Brewery, we'll call it Mount Sod-Ah-Sopa (target audience white millennial college educated professionals).

[mocat]

i wonder if there are statues of george washington in london

Better analogy would be Charles Cornwallis.

what the

[Dugout DickStone]

At least dax is not going "we need to tear down the washington monument then!" route.

But there are many in the ProgLib ranks would line up to help make that happen.

Sounds like the southern racist dirtbag ranks want it pretty bad

Maybe they do, I don't know.  But there's also many on the ProgLib side who are wholly triggered by the founding fathers and want to (or have) rewritten the history books and seek to move beyond that. 

We tore Washington down and put up a mix used development with a Starbucks, PF Changs, BRGR and a Brewery, we'll call it Mount Sod-Ah-Sopa (target audience white millennial college educated professionals).

they should, that is prime real estate

[sonofdaxjones]

At least dax is not going "we need to tear down the washington monument then!" route.

But there are many in the ProgLib ranks would line up to help make that happen.

Sounds like the southern racist dirtbag ranks want it pretty bad

Maybe they do, I don't know.  But there's also many on the ProgLib side who are wholly triggered by the founding fathers and want to (or have) rewritten the history books and seek to move beyond that. 

We tore Washington down and put up a mix used development with a Starbucks, PF Changs, BRGR and a Brewery, we'll call it Mount Sod-Ah-Sopa (target audience white millennial college educated professionals).

they should, that is prime real estate

The villages of Mount Sod-Ah-Sopa feature real granite countertops made from (former)memorials to white invaders.  Optional for the easily triggered   

[SdK]

 

i wonder if there are statues of george washington in london

 

[Trim]

CUT THE HEAD OFF

[Tobias]

(unless it's actually Nathan's)

[treysolid]

these white-supremacists are getting a little too big for their britches. we should put giant statues of abraham lincoln, and ulysses grant in every park and town square to put them in their place.

[catastrophe]

i wonder if there are statues of george washington in london

Better analogy would be Charles Cornwallis.

what the

My entire point is that winners get to say who was on the moral high ground. Doesn't make sense to draw an equivalence between winners and losers of revolutions.

[DQ12]

i wonder if there are statues of george washington in london

Better analogy would be Charles Cornwallis.

what the

My entire point is that winners get to say who was on the moral high ground. Doesn't make sense to draw an equivalence between winners and losers of revolutions.

So you're saying that the south's reason for seceding is morally neutral?  Anyone who criticizes the Confederacy's central reason for existing is merely a victim of propaganda?  Something like, "we can't judge them by today's standards?"

This argument is a joke.

[mocat]

Lee led an army against the country in which statues of him were later erected you dolt

[Dugout DickStone]

i wonder if there are statues of george washington in london

Better analogy would be Charles Cornwallis.

what the

My entire point is that winners get to say who was on the moral high ground. Doesn't make sense to draw an equivalence between winners and losers of revolutions.

So you're saying that the south's reason for seceding is morally neutral?  Anyone who criticizes the Confederacy's central reason for existing is merely a victim of propaganda?  Something like, "we can't judge them by today's standards?"

This argument is a joke.

He isn't saying the reason for them seceding was morally neutral.  It was because they liked owning free labor.  Or at least the rich ones did.

[catastrophe]

Compare it to the US's secession from Britain all you want, but (1) the US's reason for seceding was not as reprehensible as upholding the institution of slavery; and (2) Britain never erected statues of "honorable colonial leaders" who fought a war against Britain.

They started their own country because they were afraid their slaves were gonna be taken away.  It doesn't take propaganda to realize that these people were shitheads.  Go read the primary antebellum sources on the reasons for secession.  John C. Calhoun and his progeny of southern intellectuals were very clear.  Sometimes they frame it in terms of anti-federalism, but what are they trying to protect?  Spoilies: It's slavery. 

Sedition is a serious thing, and Mocat's comparison to Washington is a perfectly apt analogy.  Why the hell are we honoring traitors?  Maybe it would be one thing if there was some actual merit-based reason for their secession (i.e. "sure they seceded, but they had a point and a lot of good men died"), but really, they just wanted to keep having slaves. 

Your argument sucks.

Well I would agree if that were my argument.  Before you pivot too far here, let's remember the point I was originally responding to:

Why certain municipalities have statues dedicated to traitors who raised arms against the Republic and killed American soldiers is beyond me.

And my point:

We can talk about how they had pretty perverse motives for trying to split from the U.S., but give me a break with this "raising up arms" talk.

You're drawing a distinction between a war we glorify and a war we detest (both in which tons of good people died) by saying the motivation was different.  Sure, a lot of folks pushing for secession in the South were POS's, but you can be a POS and not be a murderer. Pan's post--which said nothing about slavery--implied racists=murderers, without regard to the fact that most of the actual fighting in the South was Southerners defending their own territory.  And I do not have to say anything about their motivation for doing so to make my point. 

If we start treating terrible beliefs the same way we treat terrible actions, then it is basically the end of free speech.  Every single murderer should be prosecuted, but we cannot start putting people on trial for their beliefs, even if 99% of Americans believe they are disgusting.

[catastrophe]

Lee led an army against the country in which statues of him were later erected you dolt

This would be a great point if we annexed London after winning the war.

[Dugout DickStone]

Lee led an army against the country in which statues of him were later erected you dolt

This would be a great point if we annexed London after winning the war.

Damn, do you think its too late?   

[star seed 7]

Catastrophe is right, those southern traitors are the real victims of the civil war (what's so civil about war anyway, at least with the intolerant north)

[catastrophe]

i wonder if there are statues of george washington in london

Better analogy would be Charles Cornwallis.

what the

My entire point is that winners get to say who was on the moral high ground. Doesn't make sense to draw an equivalence between winners and losers of revolutions.

Actually I guess it is moot.  Because it looks like London does have a statue of traitor (but more importantly, victorious war hero) George Washington.

https://www.guidelondon.org.uk/blog/around-london/statues-6-american-presidents-london/

[mocat]

oh man! i'm glad i asked.

virginia was still completely gronking in the end zone 140 years later

George Washington
American tourists are often surprised that there is a statue of their first president in the heart of London at Trafalgar Square. The statue shows Washington holding a bundle of 13 fasces which represent the original 13 states of the newly created United States of America. There is a popular legend that Washington, whose family came from the North East of England, had said he would never set foot on British soil again so some American soil was put under the statue comply with his wishes. It is a replica of an original by Jean Antoine Houdon and was given to Britain by the Commonwealth of Virginia in 1924.

[Dugout DickStone]

pretty solid move

[star seed 7]

So alpha

[mocat]

i guess the british had to put it up when we sent it to them, because they owed us a crap ton of money (and also their lives) for us swooping in and cleaning up the great war

still though, my point still stands that americans putting up Lee statues as a reminder of how their grandparents fought against america is pretty weird

[sonofdaxjones]

Alpha Male GW (ObamaStasi worshipping lib7's words) is wholly despised as a slave owning racist invader in these United States by a substantial segment of the Alt-Left.

[mocat]

idgaf what the history teacher in dazed & confused thinks, but it's important to remember our founding fathers as the heroes they are, while still acknowledging they were humans with pretty glaring flaws (like kicking the slavery can down the road)

[sonofdaxjones]

idgaf what the history teacher in dazed & confused thinks, but it's important to remember our founding fathers as the heroes they are, while still acknowledging they were humans with pretty glaring flaws (like kicking the slavery can down the road)

and owning and breeding slaves.

[star seed 7]

I don't think I've ever said George Washington is alpha dax