Author Topic: Fight or Bend the Knee?  (Read 6225 times)

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Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Fight or Bend the Knee?
« on: November 22, 2015, 08:28:40 AM »
Quick question for the college footballers. Paul Rhodes mentioned that he was just following a chart that tells when to kneel and punt versus run for first down.

Is that real and how's it work? It would seem to be a seriously complicated chart when considering all the variables like time remaining, to's remaining, lead, and field position that would come into play.

And even then, wouldn't you have to update the chart weekly based on opponent's return game, your punter, return coverage, tendency to fumble, etc.? I guess I could see Snyder making some lowly assistant do that but wow.


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« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 08:52:13 AM by K-S-U-Wildcats! »
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline Kat Kid

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Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2015, 08:52:11 AM »
There is absolutely a chart that they make about clock issues.  It is a chart to remove the chance of having to do mental math.  But it is tortured logic to believe that a chart that shows how much time they can run off the clock considering timeouts would lead to that decision.  Blaming it on the chart is so LOL, but there are many, many coaches that are only capable of any strategic thinking by relying on these immovable tools that were figure in the off season or in the game week prep.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2015, 08:56:45 AM »
I mean it is just amazing how Paul ascribes near omniscient power to his laminated sheet of paper and that well it obviously let him down but we will continue to have absolute faith in it because it exists to give us the answers.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2015, 09:09:01 AM »
Ok yeah, so seems like it's a pretty simple chart that only takes a few things into account, and a coach would be a fool to blindly rely upon it unless it said they could mathematically kneel out the game.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

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Re: Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2015, 09:10:12 AM »
Fwiw, you can buy play hard charts at Dicks
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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2015, 09:23:56 AM »
On what planet did Paul Rhodes think that KState was going to drive it 80 yards in 20 seconds or less? 

Offline chum1

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Re: Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2015, 09:33:32 AM »
Rhoads' chart rationale at 1:30 left: If they run the ball on first down, they would probably then have two kneel downs and then the game is over. If they kneel down on first down, they would probably then have two more kneel downs and then a punt.

I don't think it's bad strategy at all. In fact, his decision to follow that rationale seems like a good one to me. Three kneel downs and a punt also seems like a good decision to me.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2015, 09:36:52 AM »
Many times in that situation trying to get a first down and avoiding a punt makes some sense. But when your team has already fumbled 6 times and lost 3 then it doesn't, but football coaches often freak out about late game punt situations for some reason.

Offline DQ12

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Re: Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2015, 09:42:06 AM »
I don't blame him for trying to get the first down. 


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Offline chum1

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Re: Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2015, 09:42:41 AM »
Punts are risky, too. And ESPECIALLY when you're looking across the field at Sean Snyder.

Offline slobber

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Re: Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2015, 09:44:17 AM »
Punt out of bounds and time may have expired. No way cats tie on a hail mary pass...I mean bazooka misfires ever-y-time.

Offline CNS

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Re: Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2015, 09:47:20 AM »
Knee, knee, knee, tie shoe, punt, time out, time out, joe throws 100' over cook's head 7yrds past the line of scrimmage.

Paul's new customized chart.

Offline michigancat

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Re: Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2015, 09:59:39 AM »
I don't think the math used to create the chart was sound.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2015, 10:00:16 AM »
I don't think it's an egregiously bad decision.  Punts can blow up, ask Michigan

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Re: Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2015, 10:09:41 AM »
i dont think he factored in the origami rose into his calculations.   Also, not playing for overtime was kind of strange, given the absolute meltdown his team had just encountered. 
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Offline catastrophe

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Re: Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2015, 10:32:00 AM »
I guarantee the chart didn't take into account ISU's fumble or the Cats crappy hurry up offense. And neither did Paul.

Offline HerrSonntag

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Re: Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2015, 10:41:23 AM »
I believe he didn't say they were going for the first, they were just trying to run the ball around a little to drain extra time off the clock running the ball around.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2015, 10:45:04 AM »
I believe he didn't say they were going for the first, they were just trying to run the ball around a little to drain extra time off the clock running the ball around.

Then why not just hold the ball/run backwards kinda like USC? did a few years ago?

I mean either kneel and punt, or try to roll off those last few seconds by moving backwards, but running a fumble probe RB up the middle?
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline MixBerryCrunch

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Re: Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2015, 11:00:40 AM »
His players threw the game because they're tired of being coached by an insufferable ass clown.
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Offline troubledscribe

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Re: Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2015, 11:05:40 AM »
You kneel this game and win it. We had one timeout left that LHC Bill Snyder probably even forgot we had.

Offline chum1

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Re: Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2015, 12:27:53 PM »
I don't think the math used to create the chart was sound.

Game clock was at 1:31. 3 * 25 second play clock = 1:15 on play clock. Sometimes, it seems that refs spot the ball in just a second or two at the end of the game. But you'd want to error on the side of caution with time to spot the ball regardless.

If he'd decided otherwise and his punt was blocked and returned for a touchdown, was kneeling down three times and punting a bad decision?

These are failures of execution, not strategy.

Online wetwillie

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Re: Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2015, 12:32:48 PM »
I don't think the math used to create the chart was sound.

Game clock was at 1:31. 3 * 25 second play clock = 1:15 on play clock. Sometimes, it seems that refs spot the ball in just a second or two at the end of the game. But you'd want to error on the side of caution with time to spot the ball regardless.

If he'd decided otherwise and his punt was blocked and returned for a touchdown, was kneeling down three times and punting a bad decision?

These are failures of execution, not strategy.

what about not playing for overtime chum, was that a failure of strategy?
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline chum1

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Re: Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2015, 12:41:03 PM »
I don't think the math used to create the chart was sound.

Game clock was at 1:31. 3 * 25 second play clock = 1:15 on play clock. Sometimes, it seems that refs spot the ball in just a second or two at the end of the game. But you'd want to error on the side of caution with time to spot the ball regardless.

If he'd decided otherwise and his punt was blocked and returned for a touchdown, was kneeling down three times and punting a bad decision?

These are failures of execution, not strategy.

what about not playing for overtime chum, was that a failure of strategy?

I'm not sure there's a clear answer there. Sometimes, being aggressive pays off. Sometimes, it doesn't. Rarely, it ends in complete, heartbreaking disaster. Right?

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2015, 12:42:09 PM »

I don't think the math used to create the chart was sound.

Game clock was at 1:31. 3 * 25 second play clock = 1:15 on play clock. Sometimes, it seems that refs spot the ball in just a second or two at the end of the game. But you'd want to error on the side of caution with time to spot the ball regardless.

If he'd decided otherwise and his punt was blocked and returned for a touchdown, was kneeling down three times and punting a bad decision?

These are failures of execution, not strategy.

Running it with the dude who had just fumbled the ball is an issue of strategy just as much as it is having Hubes throw the ball around like he's Peyton Manning.

Yea, you can say "it's not supposed to work like that" but you can't just ignore your personnel.

Offline slobber

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Re: Fight or Bend the Knee?
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2015, 12:42:17 PM »
4th down. Throw a Hail Mary 50 yards in the air and 50 yards down field. Time expires.


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