Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)

[Mr Bread]

Do white guys ever get fired after three seasons?

Doherty

[michigancat]

James Johnson was fired after two seasons.

[michigancat]

everyone's favorite polo shirt model Pat Knight was also fired after 3 seasons (twice if you don't count Bob bailing mid season)

Also twice!

[Rage Against the McKee]

Sean Sutton was fired after just 2 seasons.

[Panjandrum]

Sean Sutton was fired after just 2 seasons.

Yeah, but the fact that he looked like an extra in the Walking Dead and sweat bourbon didn't help matters.

[michigancat]

he was also addicted to painkillers

[Panjandrum]

Also, RE: Alabama...

Grant proved that you could recruit at a high level there, and I guess I parallel that job to Florida more than Texas.  The SEC is ripe for a lot of meaningless wins (theoretically...hasn't panned out for Mizzou or Frank, unfortunately, though).  If Marshall just got them to the tournament 4/5 years, even at 4 million, I think they'd probably build a statue of him somewhere.

I mean, it would be somewhere they put statues of non-Football coaches, but it would be a statue nonetheless.

[Panjandrum]

he was also addicted to painkillers

So, there's that.

[kso_FAN]

he was also addicted to painkillers

So, there's that.

Definitely. But had Sean been to back to back NCAAs instead of NITs, OSU probably finds a way to "make it work".

[Havs]

he was also addicted to painkillers

So, there's that.

Definitely. But had Sean been to back to back NCAAs instead of NITs, OSU probably finds a way to "make it work".

ISU and Larry 

[kso_FAN]

he was also addicted to painkillers

So, there's that.

Definitely. But had Sean been to back to back NCAAs instead of NITs, OSU probably finds a way to "make it work".

ISU and Larry 

Similar. If Larry's alcoholism and pics at Frat parties had been "discovered" two years earlier, ISU likely does all they can to help Larry while still keeping him on as coach.

[MakeItRain]

Not sure about the full story on Stansbury, but he "retired" after a 21 win season. The program may have had some off the court problems but it was still winning. Ray lost 19+ games all three years.

Stansbury got players but the program was completely in shambles. His last year was a 20+ win season by it was also the same session where Renardo Sidney was fighting his teammates in the stands at the Diamondhead. The, I believe, top 6 scorers from that team were gone the next year because of graduation, the draft, or being kicked out of school. MUS didn't commit to basketball the way they should have so Stansbury cut corners to make it work. Ray got the directive to clean up the program but they still didn't commit resources. Ray did what they asked him to do, he got kids to go to class and pass drug tests and he didn't take kids like Renardo Sidney. He got them clean then they blindsided him. Now Howland gets the benefit of not having to change the culture of the program and he will absolutely get the benefit of greater resources.

[Stevesie60]

Arizona State fired their coach.

[kso_FAN]

Not sure about the full story on Stansbury, but he "retired" after a 21 win season. The program may have had some off the court problems but it was still winning. Ray lost 19+ games all three years.

Stansbury got players but the program was completely in shambles. His last year was a 20+ win season by it was also the same session where Renardo Sidney was fighting his teammates in the stands at the Diamondhead. The, I believe, top 6 scorers from that team were gone the next year because of graduation, the draft, or being kicked out of school. MUS didn't commit to basketball the way they should have so Stansbury cut corners to make it work. Ray got the directive to clean up the program but they still didn't commit resources. Ray did what they asked him to do, he got kids to go to class and pass drug tests and he didn't take kids like Renardo Sidney. He got them clean then they blindsided him. Now Howland gets the benefit of not having to change the culture of the program and he will absolutely get the benefit of greater resources.

That makes sense, but he still won less than 40% of his games there. Its hard to be patient in that situation and if a program in that situations puts out feelers and finds out they can hire a Howland, they are going to do it. Its not fair to Ray, but their fans want to win (even if their basketball fan base isn't huge) and I'm sure their patience had run out.

As for oscar, going back to Mo Valley level makes some sense. Its similar to why Buzz left Marquette for V Tech. Some guys don't want to put with the expectations (which seems to be a big part of why Buzz left).

Was Williams in trouble at Marquette?

Not at all.

He had made five NCAA Tournaments (in his first six seasons), advanced to the Sweet 16 three times and the Elite Eight once before the age 40, and most young coaches would become intoxicated with that level of success. Not Williams, though. He instead identified it as the bar set, and then he assembled "facts and data" in an attempt to determine whether it was reasonable to expect to maintain that level of success in a less-attractive Big East while playing league games off of ESPN and on Fox Sports 1. He concluded that it probably wasn't. And what would happen if he didn't? Answer: Williams would fall out of favor with his own fans the same way Ben Howland once did at UCLA, the same way most coaches who stay too long at any basketball-centric school eventually do. Consequently, Williams determined it was wiser to jump while he was still ahead, and though his contract at Virginia Tech is technically for less money on a per-year basis, it's a seven-year deal with an automatic rollover clause that will never allow it to be less than a five-year deal, meaning the security provided makes it a better deal for a man openly planning for the day he's fired.

Beyond that, the bar he set at Marquette no longer exists.

He has a fresh contract and fans with fresh sets of expectations.

Granted its much earlier in his tenure at K-State for oscar, but I'm sure with the issues this season brought, the draw of coaching at a lower level before he retires could be crossing his mind. He may even be having deja vu of his time at Illinois and be thinking, "why go through that again?"

[joda]

I didn't know that stuff about Miss St when Ray got there. He did take over a program that won a little bit under Stansbury though and Ray's teams were awful. It would be hard to be patient with very little sign that the program was getting better.

And if Alabama is truly willing to double Gregg's salary, he should absolutely listen. What is the max Wichita will go to keep him? $2 Mil? $2.5?

I have no idea what WSU's athletics budget is but driving that entire budget is hoops so I have a hard time seeing how they wouldn't make more of an effort to keep him.

It depends partly on how much the Koch brothers will pay to keep him in Wichita.

[wetwillie]

im getting jacked for this thing to start spinning.   Hopefully texas opens up and then Self leaves for the NBA or something.

[Stevesie60]

Arizona State fired their coach.

Going after Jeff Capel!

[michigancat]

Arizona State fired their coach.

Going after Jeff Capel!

from one recently fired coach to another.

[michigancat]

Not sure about the full story on Stansbury, but he "retired" after a 21 win season. The program may have had some off the court problems but it was still winning. Ray lost 19+ games all three years.

Stansbury got players but the program was completely in shambles. His last year was a 20+ win season by it was also the same session where Renardo Sidney was fighting his teammates in the stands at the Diamondhead. The, I believe, top 6 scorers from that team were gone the next year because of graduation, the draft, or being kicked out of school. MUS didn't commit to basketball the way they should have so Stansbury cut corners to make it work. Ray got the directive to clean up the program but they still didn't commit resources. Ray did what they asked him to do, he got kids to go to class and pass drug tests and he didn't take kids like Renardo Sidney. He got them clean then they blindsided him. Now Howland gets the benefit of not having to change the culture of the program and he will absolutely get the benefit of greater resources.

That makes sense, but he still won less than 40% of his games there. Its hard to be patient in that situation and if a program in that situations puts out feelers and finds out they can hire a Howland, they are going to do it. Its not fair to Ray, but their fans want to win (even if their basketball fan base isn't huge) and I'm sure their patience had run out.

As for oscar, going back to Mo Valley level makes some sense. Its similar to why Buzz left Marquette for V Tech. Some guys don't want to put with the expectations (which seems to be a big part of why Buzz left).

Was Williams in trouble at Marquette?

Not at all.

He had made five NCAA Tournaments (in his first six seasons), advanced to the Sweet 16 three times and the Elite Eight once before the age 40, and most young coaches would become intoxicated with that level of success. Not Williams, though. He instead identified it as the bar set, and then he assembled "facts and data" in an attempt to determine whether it was reasonable to expect to maintain that level of success in a less-attractive Big East while playing league games off of ESPN and on Fox Sports 1. He concluded that it probably wasn't. And what would happen if he didn't? Answer: Williams would fall out of favor with his own fans the same way Ben Howland once did at UCLA, the same way most coaches who stay too long at any basketball-centric school eventually do. Consequently, Williams determined it was wiser to jump while he was still ahead, and though his contract at Virginia Tech is technically for less money on a per-year basis, it's a seven-year deal with an automatic rollover clause that will never allow it to be less than a five-year deal, meaning the security provided makes it a better deal for a man openly planning for the day he's fired.

Beyond that, the bar he set at Marquette no longer exists.

He has a fresh contract and fans with fresh sets of expectations.

Granted its much earlier in his tenure at K-State for oscar, but I'm sure with the issues this season brought, the draw of coaching at a lower level before he retires could be crossing his mind. He may even be having deja vu of his time at Illinois and be thinking, "why go through that again?"

A big factor for Buzz was getting out of a basketball-only conference.

[Dr Rick Daris]

dana wasn't fired when he left ksu for creighton 

[kso_FAN]

A big factor for Buzz was getting out of a basketball-only conference.

Yeah, Goodman mentioned in that article about him studying leagues/teams that didn't have ESPN contracts. That article also makes me really like Buzz.

[michigancat]

A big factor for Buzz was getting out of a basketball-only conference.

Yeah, Goodman mentioned in that article about him studying leagues/teams that didn't have ESPN contracts. That article also makes me really like Buzz.

I liked Buzz way before that article. :hipsterbasketballfan:

[michigancat]

I love Buzz. 

Side note: Buzz Williams is my favorite non-KSU coach.

 

[kso_FAN]

I love Buzz. 

Side note: Buzz Williams is my favorite non-KSU coach.

 

Impressive.

[michigancat]

FWIW, DJamer Newbill, the player Buzz dropped in the first link I quoted, averaged 21/game for Penn State this year

http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/12/dj_newbills_journey_to_penn_st.html