is saturday winnable? (WVU edition)

[Trim]

I'm mad that I hadn't already realized what mich pointed out re: barry having to wait for people to be in oscar's positions to get oscar's play rolling.  It would be nice to see a football "all-22" video of that all playing out.

https://twitter.com/gifhawk/status/952258249465753600

I'd love to see it from the baseline or barry's perspective, but that's good enough.  He knew that oscar's play called for the 3 irrelevant people to be having a picnic at the far left baseline, but saw one on each corner and a third streaking to the far right baseline.  Ideally, he'd have said eff yo play and gone solo, but he did what I'd expect which was pacing himself for everyone to get to their starting points for that X&O masterpiece to commence.

[kso_FAN]

I'm mad that I hadn't already realized what mich pointed out re: barry having to wait for people to be in oscar's positions to get oscar's play rolling.  It would be nice to see a football "all-22" video of that all playing out.

It's a problem I've complained about with oscar (and college coaches in general). A general distrust of allowing players to make plays and thinking their sets and plays out of timeouts are way better than they are.

Yes, its generally a problem, but I think its one of the worst traits of oscar.

I still can't believe Barry took 6 seconds to bring the ball past half court. Amazing.

[michigancat]

I'm mad that I hadn't already realized what mich pointed out re: barry having to wait for people to be in oscar's positions to get oscar's play rolling.  It would be nice to see a football "all-22" video of that all playing out.

https://twitter.com/gifhawk/status/952258249465753600

watching it a couple of times it's amazing people think it was a good play design. Why would you run the initial screen action toward the side where you overloaded and therefore brought the help? Also Wade wasn't very open for anything other than a deeper-than-normal three.

[michigancat]

I'm mad that I hadn't already realized what mich pointed out re: barry having to wait for people to be in oscar's positions to get oscar's play rolling.  It would be nice to see a football "all-22" video of that all playing out.

It's a problem I've complained about with oscar (and college coaches in general). A general distrust of allowing players to make plays and thinking their sets and plays out of timeouts are way better than they are.

Yes, its generally a problem, but I think its one of the worst traits of oscar.

I still can't believe Barry took 6 seconds to bring the ball past half court. Amazing.

And oscar was still rearranging players on the court!

[EMAWzifried]

Moreover, Self and KU players said they prepared for the play because we ran it at the end of the game a year ago. If Oscar was a 3-D chessmaster he would have had a counter to it involving a couple of the three non-entitites he apparently doesn't trust.

[kso_FAN]

watching it a couple of times it's amazing people think it was a good play design. Why would you run the initial screen action toward the side where you overloaded and therefore brought the help? Also Wade wasn't very open for anything other than a deeper-than-normal three.

My assumption is that Wade shoots best from the top of the key, so they design it for him to catch it there. Azubuke's defense is not good, but he would've been in position to contest it. Again, the real problem to me is not getting the ball up the floor quickly. If Barry passes it as is, Dean catches with 4 seconds left and probably only has the jump shot. Maybe one dribble and jump shot. If we race it, Dean can catch with 7-8 seconds left and has a real shot to drive it. Even if Dean can get to 15 or so feet, he's been nailing that jumper all day.

[michigancat]

watching it a couple of times it's amazing people think it was a good play design. Why would you run the initial screen action toward the side where you overloaded and therefore brought the help? Also Wade wasn't very open for anything other than a deeper-than-normal three.

My assumption is that Wade shoots best from the top of the key, so they design it for him to catch it there.

Well then start the action on the right side of the court with Brown going right. Or have everyone stand on the right side. You could still have Wade catch it at the top of the key, but you'd also have a Brown drive as an option, which you really didn't have until the rescreen as designed.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious.

[sys]

i very much doubt if they wanted to shoot it much earlier than with 5.  probably wanted to go more at 7 or 8 seconds (which is when wade popped up for the initial screen).  you definitely aren't going to want to give the ball back to ku with more than 1 or 2 left on the clock.

[kso_FAN]

watching it a couple of times it's amazing people think it was a good play design. Why would you run the initial screen action toward the side where you overloaded and therefore brought the help? Also Wade wasn't very open for anything other than a deeper-than-normal three.

My assumption is that Wade shoots best from the top of the key, so they design it for him to catch it there.

Well then start the action on the right side of the court with Brown going right. Or have everyone stand on the right side. You could still have Wade catch it at the top of the key, but you'd also have a Brown drive as an option, which you really didn't have until the rescreen as designed.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious.

Its a good question.

Its also interesting that oscar made adjustments this year. Last year it was the opposite direction and the floor was balanced with 2 on the left and 1 on the right instead of all three on the left this year.

Last year:


This year:

[kso_FAN]

i very much doubt if they wanted to shoot it much earlier than with 5.  probably wanted to go more at 7 or 8 seconds (which is when wade popped up for the initial screen).  you definitely aren't going to want to give the ball back to ku with more than 1 or 2 left on the clock.

Based on last year sys, I think you are correct. We passed it at 5 (shot clock) last year for Dean's shot. The pass should have been made at about 4 this year.

[Powercat Posse]

I get why the screen came from Barry's left (but I also get what MICH is saying).  The roll part of the screen didn't go real smooth. Newman and Dean almost got tangled up. Newman kind of hugged Dean as he was trying to get around the pick. 

I don't know if Weber wanted Sneed & Patrick to run to the right baseline and then immediately go to the opposite baseline, thus trying to make Vick/Svi distracted a bit as our 2 guys were moving not standing. However our 2 guys didn't head to the opposite baseline til Weber yelled at them

Vick is barely paying attention to Patrick when he is in front of our bench. Vick sees Patrick go to the opposite corner but he lets him go and just stays in the lane. He was gonna be there to help on a drive and if Patrick got the ball, just hope that rotation D can get to him and contest a 3.

Barry really kind of just stops as Dean is setting the screen.  If he takes another dribble or two to his left, maybe Azubuike gets pulled away more, letting Dean be more open that he was.  I don't know.

[kso_FAN]

I have a theory as to why oscar put 3 guys on one side of the floor and had Barry initially go that way off of Wade's screen. Last year, KU had an extra defender over there to help contest the shot. This year, KU had Newman who could help on a drive in the lane, but there is no one on the perimeter to help contest the shot.

[MakeItRain]

I mean, sure the fact that it was the last possession instead of the next-to-last possession made it different, but that seems like an unlikely OK/meltdown threshold

That's all I was saying, friend.

[MakeItRain]

I'm mad that I hadn't already realized what mich pointed out re: barry having to wait for people to be in oscar's positions to get oscar's play rolling.  It would be nice to see a football "all-22" video of that all playing out.

It's a problem I've complained about with oscar (and college coaches in general). A general distrust of allowing players to make plays and thinking their sets and plays out of timeouts are way better than they are.

I know everyone is slobbering all over Chris Beard, and for good reason, but yesterday he had an over coaching hall of fame moment. Dude called three time outs yesterday, in overtime, each with his team on the line, and WVU out of timeouts, to remind his team to play half court man to man and not foul.

[MakeItRain]

Moreover, Self and KU players said they prepared for the play because we ran it at the end of the game a year ago. If Oscar was a 3-D chessmaster he would have had a counter to it involving a couple of the three non-entitites he apparently doesn't trust.

People keep bringing this up as if it's some indictment of oscar when it isn't at all. It's not football they aren't choosing from a hundred plays, it's like a half dozen. It would be an indictment of Self if he didn't have an idea of what was coming. KU runs the same end game play so often that not only do most know the action but they know the actual play call, it's called Chop.

[kso_FAN]

Moreover, Self and KU players said they prepared for the play because we ran it at the end of the game a year ago. If Oscar was a 3-D chessmaster he would have had a counter to it involving a couple of the three non-entitites he apparently doesn't trust.

People keep bringing this up as if it's some indictment of oscar when it isn't at all. It's not football they aren't choosing from a hundred plays, it's like a half dozen. It would be an indictment of Self if he didn't have an idea of what was coming. KU runs the same end game play so often that not only do most know the action but they know the actual play call, it's called Chop.

And they didn't defend it that well anyway.  Azubuike gets caught standing on the initial screen. The other KU defender grabs Wade a little bit, but he still would've gotten a fairly open shot off of the pop.

[Powercat Posse]

I have a theory as to why oscar put 3 guys on one side of the floor and had Barry initially go that way off of Wade's screen. Last year, KU had an extra defender over there to help contest the shot. This year, KU had Newman who could help on a drive in the lane, but there is no one on the perimeter to help contest the shot.

Oh for sure.   The 2007 play that Huggs did at Texas with Cartier is a little different, in that Martin pops to the wing for the 3. But the other 3 Cats are on the opposite side of Martin shooting.   If Dean's sweet spot wasn't the Top of the key, we could have ran a play just like Hoskins and Martin did.

[Cire]

Not an XO guy here but wouldn't sending rebounder from the weak side give a better chance to put back a missed three     


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[kso_FAN]

Not an XO guy here but wouldn't sending rebounder from the weak side give a better chance to put back a missed three     


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Yes, but you'd have to run the play with enough time for that to be an option. We didn't. I'm assuming Sneed would've gone to the glass if we got the shot off earlier.

[cat97]

Thank you guys for some interesting discussion on that last play.  Sneed and Patrick did go in for the rebound but due to the shot going up late, it was no advantage. 

[michigancat]

Moreover, Self and KU players said they prepared for the play because we ran it at the end of the game a year ago. If Oscar was a 3-D chessmaster he would have had a counter to it involving a couple of the three non-entitites he apparently doesn't trust.

People keep bringing this up as if it's some indictment of oscar when it isn't at all. It's not football they aren't choosing from a hundred plays, it's like a half dozen. It would be an indictment of Self if he didn't have an idea of what was coming. KU runs the same end game play so often that not only do most know the action but they know the actual play call, it's called Chop.

And they didn't defend it that well anyway.  Azubuike gets caught standing on the initial screen. The other KU defender grabs Wade a little bit, but he still would've gotten a fairly open shot off of the pop.

It was better defended than you're giving them credit for. It certainly wouldn't be a clean look by the time Wade caught the pass, unlike last year.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

I wish that rough ridin' shot would have just gone in.


Is there anything more inequitable in college basketball than the referee "no-call just give it to the team who got fouled out of bounds" play that gets called 20 times during the game, but is overturned by video in the last 2 minutes??? (or last 2:44 if its our game yesterday)

Also, WTF was that shot clock violation at the end of the 1st half after Azubuke had possession then threw it right back to us???

[kso_FAN]

Moreover, Self and KU players said they prepared for the play because we ran it at the end of the game a year ago. If Oscar was a 3-D chessmaster he would have had a counter to it involving a couple of the three non-entitites he apparently doesn't trust.

People keep bringing this up as if it's some indictment of oscar when it isn't at all. It's not football they aren't choosing from a hundred plays, it's like a half dozen. It would be an indictment of Self if he didn't have an idea of what was coming. KU runs the same end game play so often that not only do most know the action but they know the actual play call, it's called Chop.

And they didn't defend it that well anyway.  Azubuike gets caught standing on the initial screen. The other KU defender grabs Wade a little bit, but he still would've gotten a fairly open shot off of the pop.

It was better defended than you're giving them credit for. It certainly wouldn't be a clean look by the time Wade caught the pass, unlike last year.

Probably.

Dean had a great look last year.

[AlwaysEMAW]

This discussion has missed the point. Why were we hoping for a last second shot. The smart decision here was to get ourselves two chances at this. oscar should have told Barry to sprint down the court and drive as quickly as possible. Either get a bucket or get fouled. They’re not going to defend it hard because they don’t want to foul. WORST case scenario, we miss and don’t get fouled, and KU makes two free throws and are up 3.

Going for a last second prayer of a three is way dumber than attacking the basket.


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[Cire]

The thinking is that a pick and pop three by Dean is higher percentage that drive and get fouled.

I have no problem with the play

It wasn't executed

That's on oscar


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